The BIGGEST Deal In Dragons' Den HISTORY! | Dragons’ Den

[@7infernalphoenix]

The entire point of early investors getting a bigger chunk at a lesser price, is because they take a risk higher than later investors. Later investors come in when the business starts showing potential ,and take a lower risk. This isn't a new concept at all, the entire series A,B,c funding works exactly like this. The fact that the Dragons "felt" insulted at being asked to offer more for less, is hilarious

[@noodlesthe1st]

I think it's not so much just the fact that it's higher. It's the fact that the valuation of the company has increased 20x but the turnover and profit doesn't really reflect this and the projection relies on the increase in turnover from actually managing to sign on a dragon.

[@ItsCapital]

Right? I'd like to buy all of Amazon at it's 1995 valuation, please 🤣

[@fastasfox]

My thoughts exactly.

[@meknassimohamedamine82]

They aren't realy insulted, the know exactly the logic ur talking about and with out talking to each other collectively agreed to use that argument to make the guy feel vulnérable .

[@cluesfn4855]

@@meknassimohamedamine82 nah. that’s not why. They understand this concept perfectly well. It just shouldn’t have increased by THAT much.

[@reganbrannigan3006]

You don’t invest in a business at previous valuations. It’s like being angry that you can’t invest in Bitcoin for the price it was before it exploded

[@maxmackinlay618]

First in, best dressed.

[@sammaartens4105]

Exactly idk what they're thinking

[@HaveAGreatDayStranger]

I wish he had said that. They invested before tbe business generated as much revenue as it is now! They are paying for the pudding, the proof is already baked. The other people paid when it was just a recipe. They saw he (for some reason) did not reason about this himself and they leveraged his ignorance with guilt and intimidation. I wish he had gathered the sense to say that. They know its true, they're just happy the con worked.

[@mustardsaround6852]

@@HaveAGreatDayStranger the con worked perfectly..probably they should have just gone to shark tank 🤣

[@richardevans8908]

@@sammaartens4105 it’s because the dragons hold the cards at the end of the day. the pitchers came to them for an investment so the dragons have the negotiating power, so they can say things like I’m insulted I’m out or whatever they need to in order to make the deal as appealing to themselves as possible , the one seeking investment can’t be so picky as seen here having to go from 7.5% equity to 30% just so they can potentially improve their business, whereas the dragons wouldn’t leave empty handed by simply not investing unless they get a bad deal themselves which doesn’t happen often.

[@Billy_B]

Deborah to Elon Musk “why should I pay $1000 per Tesla share when people bought 6 years ago at $100?”

[@struesbob7493]

True businesses evolve

[@richardb22]

Well there are a lot of people who won't buy Tesla;s cause they want to say See You Next Tuesday . to Mr Musk the bloke who accuses others of dodgy stuff.

[@Sparringvids94]

😂

[@W3LLcoOL]

Yeah and when negotiating the dragons always talk about the value they will ad to get a bigger chunk, works both ways! 🤔

[@derekm3180]

Yep. However, the show edits down a 3 hour pitch into 10 minutes, so there might be a lot of context that's missing here.

[@Alephu5]

They're pissed off about a 10-20x increase in price of a rapidly growing business, yet I'm expected to pay £400k for a house that cost £4k new and has accumulated 50 years of wear and tear.

[@ricknelsonm]

Very good point about the house costs, they are very bad in California and Canada too, your money buys nothing anymore,

[@thabangkhatide]

👏🏼💯

[@1yearago491]

Move out of London then

[@thealien_ali3382]

Exactly

[@user-bo3mp8un6c]

@@1yearago491 Houses in London don't cost 400k

[@geoffm9944]

I couldn’t understand the hostility of two of the dragons. They felt insulted? Really? I don’t think so! It’s business! He gave an excellent pitch and stood his ground! Good for him. The Dragons are there to give applicants a rough time, but I can’t abide their faux outrage and wounded feelings nonsense!

[@02smithm1]

Nothing but a negotiating tactic from the dragons. They aren't really offended. Often their 'doubts' are exaggerated to try and get a higher percentage of the business.

[@DonceBeats]

@@02smithm1 exactly. Although it really makes everybody (apart the dragons i assume) misunderstand their frustration. When I say I'm offended, that means I've had it up to here and in reality the dragons are just employing another tactic. Name of the game I guess.

[@therearenoshortcuts9868]

could just be added in deliberately to make the show spicy

[@geoffm9944]

@Bob Shingles Meaningless and frankly inane response. Surely you can construct a proper grammatical sentence or did you skip English lessons?

[@madeleinedeburgh7016]

Insulted??? and they are in business LOL.... silly men

[@neiltavares5910]

Man that interpreter showed some pazzaz when translating 30%

[@thephantom4661]

🤣😂 even he thought it was nuts

[@karisparis91]

😂😂😂

[@IAMTHESTARMAN]

His facial expressions match Theo’s tone. I wouldn’t be surprised there is a correlation.

[@ihirslund]

That's how you do in sign language. :-)

[@kimdaisies2660]

🤯😲😂🤣🤣

[@knuckalar]

The dragons always have a meltdown when there’s other investors involved

[@Jessica7318]

Yes. In this case it's tough on the entrepreneur because the business entered a desperate state early on where people got a very good deal. In order to keep the business afloat, help it through a tough time and get it out of a struggle, they received a preferential deal. The dragons didn't like that the same deal wasn't available to them (the same discount) but the business was in a healthier place when it came to them. In the same breath however, I'm sure the dragons would be the first to say that if, after they've added value to the company by joining, another round of funding from another investor would have to take that into account. What I mean by this is, if a dragon invests, makes the business more valuable, then someone else invests to join in, I bet the dragon won't be happy if that new investor gets the same terms the dragon did. The dragon will feel like 'they made the business better' and therefore the new investor should have to pay a premium to buy in at the same percentage.

[@SageTheRage]

@@Jessica7318 🎯 💯% correct 👏

[@angelogandolfo4174]

@@Jessica7318 Spot on. In fact, I was quite surprised how much this whole issue, ‘go to’ the dragons, personally, and more of them didn’t see through the situation, to the reality, as you correctly outlined above…….👍

[@hamza361]

Yeah this doesn’t happen on US shark tank. The UK dragons have the biggest egos and are the most arrogant but write the smallest cheques. 500k offers are so common in shark tank.

[@Jessica7318]

@@hamza361 Interestingly enough I think I've seen this happen on US Shark Tank too? Has Mr Wonderful for instance ever said on US Shark Tank: "Why should I have to pay X amount if so-and-so has invested a fraction of that for the same equity? Am I dumb? Why would I do that?" I seem to recall thinking there are more than a few instances where some US sharks who make the same argument hehe.

[@theepicone1]

The deal fell through after the show, Zapper is still in buisness though and has a revenue of $2 million annually. Go them

[@freezasama5802]

Well it was better the dragons didn't invest then good for them

[@daviddoran8474]

They'd pay you 40 quid for your stuff then sell it for 250, here you are cheering them on

[@alphie6420]

@@daviddoran8474 it's your choice to give it to them, you can sell your stuff on your own if you want and get more. They just give you an option to get instant money.

[@readmyprofiledont5060]

Don't read my name @weekend notes

[@readmyprofiledont5060]

Don't read my name @weekend notes

[@shadaba.qureshi4367]

Debra's logic is crazy (5:10), the value of share depends upon company's balance-sheet as the time goes by... 1 unit share price could be either 1 $ or 100 $ at the start, during raising the same value could be 100 $ or 1 $... the hidden logic is Risk...initial raising is always lucrative for the investor...

[@Pickled_Poet]

@koiun dwrru I don't know why you replied this on a comment about Deborah, but I appreciated it none the less! I was thinking about that when they went back, and was wondering why his partner didn't sign. It also seems to be a case of developed hearing loss due to age, disease or accident since he can also speak pretty well

[@acquiesce100]

Debra just makes it all so complicated

[@cheryl5994]

@@Pickled_Poet WHAT ON EARTH HAS THIS GUY’S HEARING LOSS GOT TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF MILK? THAT TRULY, HAS TO BE ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS COMMENTS I’VE HAD TO COME ACROSS.

[@jakecooper5855]

I'm surprised there was no discussion about how it can scale. The technology is the easy part, the expensive part is the manual labour required to process the incoming stock and outgoing orders. That massive pile on the table only generates 20 pounds of net profit.. That is a lot of work for 20 quid! Maybe they did discuss it and that didn't make the edit

[@marleymclean4756]

There probably was, these pitches can last hours we only see the chopped and screwed versions

[@siddhantmishra7950]

Discussing how it can scale just makes one investor weaker in front of an other u guess

[@SirTorcharite]

Just have the seller hold the item until the sale is made. The seller sends you the items sold. The buyer sends you money. You take your escrow fees, shipping and processing fees out. The rest after taxes goes back to the seller. Easy, convenient, and safe. Could even have a verification service where once the escrow receives the items they send 5-6 photos for transaction approval. Keeps people from being ripped off with damaged products photographed well.

[@cl4udease]

I think 20£ is the profit after all the labour involved

[@Ludak021]

@@SirTorcharite Cannot be done like that in this instance. The appealing thing, and the core thing really, is that the business pays for items immediately THEN they sell it, when they sell it. So you basically have to give salaries for enough people to not have any delays even when the business is slow. They are probably bleeding money on salaries and not have enough left to invest in further growth. Hence the DD appearance. Increasing the volume would extract much higher value from the employees. Whether any of it is realistic or not, I don't really care.

[@mrh107]

8:10 Deborah is so annoyed by the entrepreneur, she subtly gives him the middle finger.

[@OraEtLabora0]

now i cannot unsee it :D well spotted!

[@gsuk28]

I used to do that at school! 🤣

[@Jordothecat98]

I often think dragons get offended for no reason but those shareholders didn’t put in 50k years ago, it was recent. So I get the irritation at being asked to do 250k for 7.5%

[@JuliuszCovers]

I understand the emotional reaction, but the fact is that they should pay whatever the company is worth. If he had two copies of a priceless book and sold one for next to nothing for whatever reason, the other copy is still priceless. You can be jealous of the buyer who was lucky and got a better deal, but you can’t get offended and claim that a fair price is not fair.

[@sh3tpostsgamertime204]

@@JuliuszCovers yeah but its not grown that much

[@JuliuszCovers]

@@sh3tpostsgamertime204 It doesn’t need to have grown. Perhaps he made a mistake selling so cheap. What’s done is done, but he doesn’t need to make the same mistake a second time by using the same valuation.

[@user-yp3oj5se1i]

That's not the worst thing about money use.

[@sh3tpostsgamertime204]

@@JuliuszCovers its still insulting, the company isnt worth 3.5x more than it was. Its either naivety or greed and both arent good for the investors.

[@ASXInvestor]

The biggest deal and the biggest title in Dragons Den channel history got us all clicking immediately

[@pimpozza]

Yes! 🤣🤣

[@MusicForHourss]

YES

[@freezasama5802]

I swear they say that like 5 times when there are bigger investments

[@Asif-kh-n9r]

Not really. This pitch has been on KZbin for decades. Part timer.

[@pimpozza]

@@Asif-kh-n9r *Yes, in fact!* It got us clicking!

[@kmlau1986]

For those that are confused about why the dragons are baffled about the big jump in the valuation between the rounds of funding, in general startups, we often see a 2-3X increase in valuations between early rounds of funding. What this guy is asking for is a 20X increase. That's absolutely bonkers, especially without any good real financials to back it.

[@ccc3]

Yup, like Deborah pointed out, the company's financials haven't changed much since the previous funding round (weak cash flow), so the dragons feel like they're being ripped off if investing at 20x that valuation.

[@E4STWOOD]

The example books are written by the dragons, nice touch.

[@cybersechs1368]

You sure?? That's the crap the guy is trying to OFFLOAD hahaha

[@severalwolves]

yup along with a bunch of bargain bin CDs and DVDs - _that’s_ the thing that should have offended them!

[@trunderwood]

This aired in 2012 and Ben left Zapper three years later. It's not clear what happened to Zapper as a company (it appears to still be trading), but it is clear that Theo et al - who know retail and "I see the future" - didn't even ask about the effect of digital media / streaming on a business like this. Genius investment.

[@Randomaccount9470]

The deal pulled through, he was mugging them,p.s thier company is over 2 mil worth

[@BenjaminGoose]

Et al?

[@trunderwood]

@@BenjaminGoose 'and others'

[@chipbuttytime3396]

@@Randomaccount9470 Valued at negative £1M in 2024

[@LiberateYou]

First time I've seen someone deaf in the den! Its inspiring to see people with disabilities being successful!

[@Ghostchanter]

yeah but when consulting to the wall am I wrong that they were just talking to each other with no signing?

[@bash547]

The deaf guy was lip reading his partner but he misjudged the volume of his voice and Theo heard their conversation .

[@Siamese_cat_]

@@Ghostchanter yeah wtf was that about haha

[@Don-Carillo]

@@Ghostchanter i was about to ask the same question

[@FlameFlickers]

@@mzahra1 Finds out all her secrets anytime he goes down on a girl..

[@beastritualist9734]

Didn't even notice all the Dragon's autobiographies he bought with him until just now

[@BB-ec4ss]

The devil is in the detail, that's why we are watching them make the deals...

[@severalwolves]

yep, along with some really awful, bargain bin DVDs haha

[@TreesRgreen123]

I was waiting on Duncan asking him to zap the barcode of his book to see how much the site valued it at

[@michaelolson6982]

Apparently at 30% the valuation of the company fell to £833,333.33p just by changing the percentage of the valuation a option that was available to all dragons that went out.

[@kevinprior3549]

That's very precise isn't it?

[@david_hartley]

These Dragons get so insulted so quickly. They take it so personally, just say you’re out and move on!

[@OraEtLabora0]

TV drama, entertainment category

[@Yobbie72]

The term is to take something "personally" not "purposely".

[@david_hartley]

@@Yobbie72 cheers bro, didn’t spot the typo! Have a great weekend

[@leopardgeckocrazy]

They have such fragile egos. Peter and Deborah are the worst for it.

[@Jessica7318]

Hello David. So I do believe I get where you're coming from with the comment here. Very often the dragons can go over the top with their replies. This being said, I think the show would be extremely boring if they just said they were 'out' and moved on. Entertainment value aside... one of the things that I love about this show is the business discussion around it. When a dragon goes out they can go out for any number of reasons, and often times those reasons can seem hypocritical. - In one pitch, they may say: "It's a crazy idea, I can't justify getting involved. I'm out." - In a similar pitch, they may say: "It's a crazy idea, but you know what, I'm going to take a punt." - In another idea they may say: "I'm not an ideal partner for you. The dragon to my left (or right) is in this space, so I'm out. - In a similar pitch they may say: "I'm not an ideal partner for you, so I'm going to offer you a better deal because I 'love' this idea and think I can still be 'some' help and would like to be a part of it." - In a 3rd instance, one of the contrasts you'll hear is: "You're asking for too little money, it won't be enough to do what you want to do, so I'm out." - In a similar pitch, they may say: "You've asked for a lot of money. If you'd asked for less, I could say 'I'll take a punt!' but at that price... it's just too much for me to get involved. I'll never see a return, so I'm out." - And sometimes you'll hear: "I like it... and I'm on the fence, honestly. But you know what, on this one... I'm going to be out. And you know what-? I could be missing the biggest thing. I might very well regret this'." - And of course the mirror: "I could go either way on this. I've been weighing the pros and cons. You've definitely got something here, but the question is can you execute on it and make it something. I'm going to make you an offer." The dragons have a very interesting situation in that not all great pitches have to receive money. They don't all get 'entitled' to investment. Someone who makes a good pitch might not get investment because a dragon is just in the mindset of 'great' pitches that day. You could have a business that is doing well, come through a hard time, turns the tide and is now becoming profitable. It's a great story. But the dragon may not invest in you because they believe the pitch after you has a chance of being something 'better'. Someone making tonnes of profit... etc. We see all these pitches and we root for the entrepreneurs thinking if they do well enough, we don't understand why they don't get investment. From a dragon's point of view. the good could be the enemy of great. A decent entrepreneur who's struggling but doing their best may not get an offer simply because the dragon believes strongly that later in the day they have good odds of hearing a pitch that is much better than this one. Now dragons can't know what the future pitches will be, but as Kevin O'Leary says: "I can make great offers for fantastic deals, because if you don't take it, someone else will walk in that door behind you and they will take it. They'll take my money and become successful." etc.

[@Jamie_Winsh]

I'm surprised Theo gave away so much of his children's inheritance

[@SiriusMined]

I don't know why they're getting insulted. If the other investors put money in before the business was trading, they were taking a bigger risk. Now investors are coming in after it's established itself and the company has more value than it used to. What's the mystery? If you want to say the valuation is too high, that's probably true. But to be insulted is just ridiculous.

[@edwinromilly4645]

That was i was deliberating too!!Good point, but it was too high maybe 125k more befitting lol.. Don’t think they gave him enough credit though for all he had achieved.But turn over vanity profit sanity lol😚

[@wildnfree101]

I really enjoyed this one. Theo was excellent, being prepared to move from 30% to 30%. The guy let the cat out of the bag, telling the Dragons he got £50,000 for 30% of the business earlier.

[@thealien_ali3382]

Exactly, he shouldn't have told them.

[@aldrichchimezie7848]

They would have eventually know

[@lenwty4850]

Interesting point. But if he hadn’t mentioned it, due diligence would’ve uncovered the detail and likely then not allowing the deal to go through

[@isaiahpero7837]

50,000 pounds of what?

[@ahmadfirdauz6322]

I'm very sure the Dragons will eventually find out before they put pen to paper..

[@penitent2401]

Those 3 early investors put in the money when the business was at the most risk years ago and provided the expertise to get it up. Now it is up and running and generating solid revenue and looking to expand. Of course the value goes up.

[@Jay-in6dl]

It’s mad that the dragons don’t seem to understand that the business has grown since those initial investments.

[@pimpozza]

Heard this deal fell through after the show in 2012 but Zapper UK is still going strong today

[@chipbuttytime3396]

going strong with 1 million in liabilities lol

[@dannyholmes5156]

No point in Jenny getting involved with dvds and indoor entertainment as she's constantly out

[@rumelahmed4539]

She clocked out a few years ago. RiP lol

[@elzterr]

They have an app now, I downloaded it must have been 2 years ago to see what I would get for my books. 15 - 25 pence per book. I think I'd rather keep them!

[@polarisgemini52]

Isn't it better to sell them directly to some bookshop? Bet you would get more for it although you would have to physically carry the book and do some bargaining. That's how we losers do it in India lol

[@haynesgames7260]

When Matt went to the back with the other bloke, it's almost like he could hear again without sign language

[@MichaelBylehn]

Many can read lips and he might be hearing impaired instead of fully deaf.

[@biscuit4259]

@@MichaelBylehn and he’ll be very familiar with his speech patterns.

[@bdcalling1391]

The initial investors took a risk by investing £50k each in the first place, the dragons are picking up a semi finished service so would have endured less risk.

[@financialchimes4546]

They didn't invest 50k each, they invested 50k in total.

[@wheelsofafrica]

Exactly.

[@THEVIEW-tx5yd]

I'm so glad they rejected the deal after the Den. Wanting 30pc of a company turning over 1 million for just 100,000 is such an unfair deal.

[@E4STWOOD]

Sales (turnover) is vanity, profit is sanity, and cash is king. The turnover was £1m, but the net profit was only £35k. Why is this unfair?

[@freezasama5802]

You know that most entrepreneurs never intend to get a deal they just want to be advertised on tv for free Peter stated this in an interview about dragons den

[@THEVIEW-tx5yd]

@@freezasama5802 Companies going through rapid growth often lack net profir. 660k projected turnover. And the fact they rejected and the company is worth hundreds of millions shows this.

[@gothicgolem2947]

@@freezasama5802 not most some do

[@keaton718]

Well it's not the Teddy Bear's Den. You should expect a dragon to be ruthless and underhanded.

[@arthurkettle3010]

Everything I detest about this show...the rudeness, the arrogance, the exploitation and greed - is encapsulated by this clip

[@HighTen_Melanie]

Feels like we’ve entered a new Time zone when Dragons’ Den isn’t uploaded at midday!

[@mandofan2616]

thumbs down for clickbait

[@loganbombard374]

For me it was always 7 AM hahaha

[@HighTen_Melanie]

@@loganbombard374 Brilliant 😂

[@scottlove1832]

blame Covid....they do for everything else.

[@FretfulBadass]

Ikr 🙄💜

[@alexwinter6720]

What an insanely intelligent pair of individuals

[@davidjma7226]

Makes a change

[@finnishinsider1569]

Really?! At 4:14, evidently he doesn't even know the difference between brought and bought.

[@LuxuryLenoxLuditoryLuthorLob]

​@@finnishinsider1569nerves

[@kyleabraham2655]

I hate when they ask why do they have to pay more than other investors... because the business is worth more now... Imagine trying to buy Amazon and telling Bezo “but your shares didn’t cost you that much when you started the business”

[@markmalin7425]

Anyone got a tissue?

[@markmalin7425]

Or maybe a wide range of services and solutions to the aforementioned comestibles

[@markmalin7425]

Send me a copy of the most important part of the day

[@carolineyoungs5878]

I always look at old versions Of Dragons Den then look at todays valuation of company. Nov 2022 this company is now worth 3 million. Well done Theo.

[@drummingspain207]

Apparently the deal fell through after the show

[@thestarshavefallen]

According to their trust pilot they haven't been accepting trades for months due to "essential maintenance"

[@SR1Records]

Used Zapper and Music Magpie a few times. Couldn't be arsed with listing each CD/DVD individually and paying fees and postage on them. Makes so much more sense for individuals to just use Zapper/ Music Magpie to get s slightly lesser profit without the hassle of posting individual items and wondering how much you will get after eBay/PayPal fees.

[@Technicallyimright]

Of course the revenues on a business like this will be massive, but the margin would be tiny. They’re buying video games for £5 and selling them for like £8. Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity. You shouldn’t have to turnover a million to make £35k in profit lol.

[@thetriggerxp]

they pay you 1p per game and you need to sell at least 5 pounds or the app won't work, that company is a joke

[@danhudson4614]

@@thetriggerxp I hate these types of rip off merchants. I'm glad none of them invested. 😌

[@pauldenino6350]

year 2 they 8x turnover but 20x net profit... yea right

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

Props to Matt, that technician who appears to be partially deaf.

[@SpyroTek]

Props for?

[@KLC6432]

Appears? I think it's obvious seeing that a sign lagnuage translater was there.

[@TheManInBlueFlames]

Well it seems as if he's able to hear the other guy when he whispers. So he's partially deaf only.

[@KLC6432]

@@TheManInBlueFlames didn't read my reply too well...

[@jasonbored8319]

Ok?

[@marcusmishima]

PLEASE DONT RUIN THE OUTCOMES IN THE TITLE. THANK YOU 🙂

[@Lonely_Goat]

I don't get Deborah's argument. So what if the 3 angel investors got a great deal, that don't mean you get the same deal now the company is up and running. I tried an app like this. Put 4 book in and gave me a 75 pence valuation.

[@Just60seconds-UK]

same with me

[@greeneyebandit7949]

This guy is a genius, got free advertising and now is making his dough

[@chipbuttytime3396]

he left the business 7 years before your comment, the business is worth minus 1 million pounds now... liabilities

[@HaveAGreatDayStranger]

The other investors invested before the business generated as much revenue as it is now! They are paying for the pudding, the proof is already baked. The other people paid when it was just a recipe. They saw he (for some reason) did not reason about this himself and they leveraged his ignorance with guilt and intimidation. I wish he had gathered the sense to say that. They know its true, they're just happy the con worked.

[@Jessica7318]

D C... very astute. The dragons get to leverage a situation where if he answers a question brazenly or boldly, he comes off as bullying or arrogant. Example: Entrepreneur: "Well they got this deal because we were at a desperate period, unproven, and they really helped us through a tight spot. They made a noticeable difference to our business and so they got that discount." Potential Dragon reply: "Oh, and you don't think I'll make a noticeable difference to your business? Do you not think I'll bring remarkable value to your business? Am I not worth the same discount? If I'm going to come on board and make this contribution to you, shouldn't I be paid the same way these other people were, whom you value so highly?" The 'realistic' answer is that these other investors were in the right place at the right time to take a big risk and get a sweetheart deal because of it. The dragons can pitch this narrative in a way that if the entrepreneur is very 'honest' with them, the entrepreneur can be trapped in however they answer. It's a lot like the word game the dragons play when it comes to valuation: - If a company is struggling, the dragon will say: "I'll buy in, but this is what it's worth today. I can't pay more than that." And when the entrepreneur replies: "Well my valuation is based on what we can do if you join us." the dragon says: "I can't pay today what it'll be worth in a year's time after I've been involved. This is what it's worth today, this is what I'll pay, and then together we can build it." - If a company is thriving, and the entrepreneur is justified in giving a little percentage for a lot of money because the business is doing so well, the dragon will often say: "Yes well I'm valuing my time. When I get involved, I'm going to make this very big for you. So this is the percentage I want." When the company is doing very well, the entrepreneur is asking for a reasonable price to the day's value, the dragon is quick to point out that: "When I get involved, we'll be making this much bigger, that's why I can ask for more." but when the business is struggling and not doing all that well, the dragon is the first to say: "Yes, when I get involved maybe we'll make it big, but that's my upside for taking the risk. You can't ask me to pay more today than it's worth just because of the potential my involvement adds." Now to be clear... I don't blame the dragons for this. This is shrewd business, and very often, the art of getting a great deal is knowing how to negotiate a narrative and see how you can get the best bargain. Sometimes that means selling the future hard to justify why you want more now. Other times that means 'blocking' that move from the other person, and answering: "You can't ask me to pay for the future today." and very often the dragons make these moves just to see how the entrepreneur will react. Will they become anxious? Awkward? Will they feel 'bullied' or even worse, made to feel like they're insulting the dragons when it's not their intent (but the way the dragons word a question makes any answer hard to navigate because it can 'sound' bad hehe). I do so love watching Dragons Den. :D

[@YouTubeTOS]

Peter never rejects so quickly! He always listens to others than gives his own input lmao

[@kylebusc3624]

Is 250k seriously the biggest investment ever on dragons den? Thats way lower than I would expect

[@LPCLASSICAL]

most of the deals are micky mouse money like £40K.

[@jasonhurd4379]

Theo: 'I'm gonna make you an offer' *Peter's soul withers and dies*

[@lincoln7184]

Theo the Foetus: "I AIN'T BUDGIN!". Doctor: "Ok nurse, it's gonna be a cesarean".

[@retro-wreck]

With a 30% cut

[@MakingMixesLol]

THEO THE FOETUS 😂😂😂

[@luciengranger2762]

Lmfao...

[@majortom-ey7yj]

And for that reason, he is out

[@MENDNZ]

Surely..the early investors who keep the company alive at crucial times get the better deal?

[@TaskSwitcherify]

Not entirely true. Maybe he developed new pricing algorithms and re-sale channels; exponentially grew his customer base showing massive traction, expanded the product recognition database to millions of new products, etc. That's why the company could be worth so much more now.

[@clockspells6628]

30 percent is actually a very risky deal because theres 3 other people with 10 percent if the buiseness was succesful the dragon can just buy like 21 percent of the stock and he owns the company

[@drummingspain207]

Not how it works - it's not a company trading on the stock market so effectively it's not for sale

[@johnlocke1977]

When dragons throw a hissy fit over investors at other rates, in the event that theyre initial investors for a larger sum, that makes sense. They paid and paved the way for it to be where it is.

[@IPLACEIcom]

deaf guy has good energy and is a sweetheart, i hope they are very successful

[@PCallahanPhilly]

Peter Jones, the delicate flower of the Den. Always feeling insulted.

[@guyfromostrava]

I don't get why the guys are annoyed by past investors receiving a higher percentage for a much lower stake. Obviously, I don't know anything about Zapper, but I can imagine when Microsoft launched from a garage you could have gotten a much MUCH better deal then than now. If you're as startup you're willing to give much more for less... When you gain traction, it's natural that you expect much more money for the same percentage...

[@ianrae1546]

Absolutely spot on. It genuinely stuns me that these 3 “business people” didn’t seem to grasp this logic 😂😂😂

[@riceman78]

The question the Dragons failed to ask before getting upset is "When did the previous investors buy in and Why was the business valued lower at the time the other investors bought in?"

[@stroketheboat]

I think you'll find that it was a point the person requesting £250K failed to make and it cost him 20% of his business. That being said, it wouldn't have been lost on the DD that an early stage business would be a much lower value than a business valued later on - that is just the basic rule of growth.

[@Drenwickification]

2:00 PGR2 and RS3... 2 games i used to play an absurd amount when i was a kid... good times

[@petrov3190]

I get that the dragons felt offended by the offer shortly after they heard that other investors got their portion of equity for much less money, but they should have looked for the potential of the company instead of their ego and emotions getting in their heads. Anyway, they hold the cards and have the rights to be offended and complain of any deal they receive.

[@matthewbell4273]

It seems from people’s comments that the deal fell through. I imagine one reason may have been that after the entrepreneur ran the dilution calculations he realised he’d lose control (70% x his pre-Dragons-Den 70% = 49%).

[@financialchimes4546]

I haven't watched the video yet, but I can immediately tell you your calculation is probably incorrect. It's not 70% of 70%, his share is 70%/130%=53.8%.

[@jamesflames6987]

He's selling 30% of the whole business, not just of his stake.

[@9k49]

I’m with the dragons on this. Yes a business goes up in value over time but not by 20x in less than a year. And he admitted the valuation was based off the investment and influenced by projections

[@rosemccartney1538]

Yeah it does, i’m sure the company was worth 10 dollars at some point. And probably grew 10.000% within a few weeks.

[@R_Ali]

The look on Duncan’s face was priceless 😂

[@RobertAgarHutton]

I used to watch DD and often thought that it was more about presenting something to the TV audience rather than actually getting an investment.

[@paulpaul46]

The biggest clickbait in dragon’s den history lol

[@henrysmith883]

I miss Theo so much. He’s brilliant.

[@WaqarHussain-te7ft]

I feel deeply annoyed and angry that I can no longer buy shares in Tesla for what they were at when they first started trading 😤

[@rossi180]

This why Theo will always be the best dragon of all time. Sure Peter is the coolest, but Theo is the king

[@canag0d]

How does the announcer guy always know what the Dragons are thinking and going to do every time! He is psychic!

[@mdlyonn0035]

Not really the “biggest deal” when the deal never went through 😂

[@josephgreen2008]

That business is now worth 485 million pounds in 2021.Lessons to be learned by investors .Never let you EGO get in the way(Usually it is emotions) of doing a deal.

[@Darknesssleeps]

It’s not worth 485 million lol. That’s Peter Jones net worth

[@josephgreen2008]

@@Darknesssleeps Just looked that up again.You are right Walter ,The message is still valid though about never letting your Ego get in the way of an investment. Have a good day.

[@1Animeculture]

I think they had soooome ego here, the dragons that is. Yeah there were other investors getting the same slice for much cheeper but you really cant blame em, it was a much less evaluation back then, they are just really sore in their asses that they didnt get to go innon the deal earlier :D

[@irishnftgal]

He should have been able to explain further when the first dragon got insulted. To ensure there wasn’t a ripple effect. Might have saved him 10% there

[@kevinjohnson9573]

How does Matt go from needing a signer to hearing whispers at the back of the room 😂

[@rikardandersson6652]

Reading lips..

[@kevinjohnson9573]

@@rikardandersson6652 yes so what was the need of a signer to begin with.

[@rikardandersson6652]

@@kevinjohnson9573 ...its a studio..lights blinding from the dens, distance, get a flow of comunication in tv. Is this really rocket science???🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@kevinjohnson9573]

@@rikardandersson6652 you make lip reading sound like rocket science

[@rikardandersson6652]

@@kevinjohnson9573 😘

[@heene]

The other dragons were too quick to quit because they were 'insulted' and should have gone for more equity like Theo did. By the look on their faces I think they might have regretted turning him down. 10 years later I would imagine there are several services and like this and quite a bit of competiton.

[@dimitrz2000]

Or because they didn't have that much money 🤣

[@klorrigan1404]

You’d think with all the money Hilary has, she could be able to spend some money on a better wig

[@beastritualist9734]

It's Jenny in disguise

[@klorrigan1404]

@@beastritualist9734 she just doesn’t want to go out to buy one 👀

[@wheelsofafrica]

Delighted to hear that the deal fell through, and that Zapper is flourishing! Not called Sharks for nothing, and they were offended - poor darlings!

[@TheMightofDab]

They're not called sharks..

[@kevinprior3549]

These are dragons

[@christophercolumbus8944]

Zapper was set up in 2009 by founders Ben Hardyment and Mat White. We are an ambitious technology company with plans to radically innovate in mobile and online retail. In October 2012 (filmed in May 2012) we appeared on BBC Dragons’ Den and secured a record offer of £250,000 in investment from Theo Paphitis.

[@Majormoose1]

You have offered literally no new information

[@steviejpatrick]

Sometimes these pitches are just to promote the business and don't actually want an investment

[@dylanreyes3104]

Subway. Meatballs & Cheese. Double choc cookie and orange juice.

[@jbiz6626]

Legend

[@JazzyMarineVet]

Yum, good start to your friday. Just need a pint to set it off

[@leedsdrumacademy]

Seabass and broccoli. Keeping that 6-pack tight. ;)

[@AdamBechtol]

Don't often see Theo snatch up what the other Dragons turned down.

[@daveymorgan909]

They didn't screw anything up Deborah. WRONG again 😄

[@misszara786]

This business has actually done well

[@jonathanrussell594]

As soon as rain man turned up.. It was a win win. 🤔

[@PrawnWaters]

2:32 Just as Pizza Jones realises, “And here comes the Bannatyne fuckery “

[@TheSuicidalCake]

"hello matt im theo" matt: O_O

[@SuperJohn011]

I like the way they are consulting each other.

[@YasmeenKhan]

I tried it once, about 80% of the books I scanned it refused to take anyway. all modern fiction, so I understand they might have had a lot of copies of them, but it makes it completely pointless to use

[@danielcrockett8398]

It's useless. They only want the most recent and specific games for example. A game that cost £50, has been available for one day, they will offer something pathetic like £6.99. You could walk to CEX and get £30 at least for a new release. It's laughable.

[@retro-wreck]

Do they reseal it and sell it or sell it as used.

[@thelegend5243]

If he would have come in and said that in terms of owning a business, and being experienced that he is the equivalent of owning an amateur Sunday League football club, and the Dragons are the equivalent of being a Sheik who owns a Premier League club, but he’s asking for their experience, wealth and contacts, to make him bigger and better, I think he would have got more dragons to invest.

[@collydub1987]

The people who founded CEX: This is a good idea.

[@bungabening3530]

I like how he had a book by Douglas Bannatyne in the pile at the start.

[@dimitrz2000]

I think the ego came into to play here for the Dragons, You cannot really compare old investment into a company on par with current investment. For all you know the previous investment of 50000 pounds at the inception of the business would be worth its weight in gold. Those investors belived in him when no one else probably did. So theoretically that old investment could be equivalent to 25000 pounds at present valuation.

[@ScratchyBaws]

I've heard and bought from Music Magpie for years, still never heard of Zapper.

[@TomNook.]

Amazon Marketplace be like "I own you now"

[@sharpsonmusic]

10:36 I was hoping he'd just do a 360 rotation with a fake mustache and go "Hullo, I'm Matt and this deal is Cookoo!"

[@Jordothecat98]

It isn’t really the biggest cuz the deal never went through

[@scrapstation6823]

Shares in stock market never remain the same and when a company/business grown up the share price goes up.

[@S.Trades]

Demand is what pushes up a share price.

[@scrapstation6823]

@@S.Trades Demand never pushes up if company s not growing or going in loss.

[@mikeday2129]

thought that deal was gonna fall on deaf ears

[@montelvontaviouspore]

"Ba dum tss" 🥁 other guy: Did you hear something?

[@jeffgachihi8225]

11:58 - the most dramatic signed 30% in history.

[@kevin084life]

This has to be the biggest rabbit out of the hat investment in Dragons Den history.

[@SuperJimbell]

I went online and offered 28 books which were accepted for a miserly 9euro..donated them to charity

[@runiquepro5815]

I think I'm going to go on here. I need a £1 million pound investment to bring some product over from Eastern Europe and I'm willing to pay them back £3 Million in 6 months and give them a 5% share of the profits thereafter. Dragons: What could we bring to the business apart from the money? Me: Your private jets.

[@gothicgolem2947]

Tbh they would likely have other questions before like your valuation and why you think you’ll make so much

[@CoolCoyote]

the scot missed a deal there, he only wanted less money, theo got it asked for more capital at 30%