Dragster World Record Controversy (Todd Rogers) -

[@PatTheNESpunk]

Do you think more arcade and classic gaming records will be scrutinized because of this? ✅More info @bit.ly/2E4KFua & bit.ly/2BNBDMO ✅Support the podcast @ patreon.com/cupodcast ✅More #CUPodcast vids: bit.ly/1pOBDVH ✅Follow on twitter @ twitter.com/patthenespunk & twitter.com/pxlsicle

[@railerswim]

There are already claim threads on Twin Galaxies scrutinizing Billy Mitchell. However I don’t believe they have brought enough evidence against it other than some circumstantial evidence. That said his DK record has been beat so let it be.

[@smokinpower5319]

I think this all was obvious when king of Kong came out it talked about some of this corruption and how hard it was to get into the "records". All this does is hurt gamers and video gamers, but if the closet needs to be cleaned then let's clean it.

[@Fettman07]

zen strata why not apply that same logic to Rogers himself? If games are just for fun why falsify claims, build an entire persona based on lies, and claim you’ve achieved things that are actually impossible. If they are just fun and games none of that is necessary. This guy has lived a lie and been rewarded for it, up until now since he’s been expunged.

[@machineofadream]

Zen, Todd Rogers' scores were just removed 2 days ago, and calling this silly is itself silly. People compete at these games because they want to get more fun out of them. This is supposed to be about fun. If someone is taking it too seriously, that's their problem, because many people do find it fun to get high scores. The people who are ruining the fun are the people who lie and cheat, and have done so for so long that a cheater like Todd Rogers is some kind of video gaming icon. It was important to take him down and possibly to delegitimize Twin Galaxies so that maybe people can get back to having fun competing against REAL high scores and not some fake shit that's impossible to beat. And what's wrong with e-sports? People find that to be fun, too. I love watching high level gamers compete. In some cases the skill and coordination requires are easily on the level of traditional athletics.

[@yugiohpokemon5285]

Pat the NES Punk please do a podcast episode discussing whether or not smash Bros melee is gaining or losing popularity. Would be nice to watch

[@bigdumer8997]

With Todd Rogers being removed from the TG leaderboard, I once again have the World Record for Lock'N'Chase on the Intellivision! He took the title away from me about 12 years ago when he quadrupled my score. With no evidence. I have a VHS tape of my run in my crawlspace...maybe I should digitize it.

[@5MadMovieMakers]

Do it!

[@alexcorba6262]

Did you do it?

[@bigdumer8997]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKabpnuhl6p4Y5I

[@alexcorba6262]

@@bigdumer8997 Great I liked

[@TheSupercuber]

I'm surprised it wasn't quintupled knowing what I know of their mode of operation.

[@dynamicvoltage9765]

What's really shitty is that, after Todd's scores were removed, there were over 1,000 new world record holders that - many of which probably stopped playing years ago, or even worse, passed away, and never knew they had a world record. That's what's so scummy about that Todd did. He took away great moments from other people that earned it.

[@ApolloLegend]

Holy shit I remember watching your flea market madness back when I was 14 or so. This brings back some memories.

[@princesscookiepizzaparty8668]

Apollo Legend I loved your bids Dude!

[@LaoTze151]

Love your channel bro!

[@semuta2752]

Well shit, it’s nice to see more of what Apollo enjoyed in his free time and that Pat’s channel had been a source of joy for the young Legend. Wish you were still with us and that things went differently in many ways.

[@unity6926]

Haha you're dead

[@HPRshredder]

RIP man. Miss your channel a lot.

[@Kerrathul]

He didn't do a TAS. He decompiled the source code and analyzed it. He then built a sheet based on the logic of the game its self. There's no argument to even be made that the TAS is incomplete, because Omnigamer's findings were based off the actual source code of the game.

[@trinidad17]

Exactly. But the problem is that the code he used is not the actual code, he recreated the code so he was able to try to optimize it more easily. This could behave differently than the actual hw on some circumstances. So while he did a good job with what he used, to put this to rest I think this should be simulated at least on a 1:1 Atari 2600 emulator (not sure if something like Stella is 100% exact), or the actual hardware.

[@ATMOSK1234]

They did that on the ben heck show and got the same result.

[@Kerrathul]

Lassi Kinnunen thanks. I was going to type all this out, but I didn't have a chance. Decompiled code from the ROM dump yes, isn't the actual source. It's better, because it's from the actual machine code that executes on the processor. Like you say the 6507 has exact execution times with no variance for an instruction. But the biggest misnomer from that thread is that the speed of the chip matters. If the chip was sped up it wouldn't affect the in game timer because it was counting number of executions (frames). So if the chip was faster, your real world time of execution would be lower, but the number of executions would be the same, thus the in game timer would be the same. For Jace (the owner) to say he got involved in the dispute cause he's an engineer, and then he didn't understand this is just absurd. I agree that all credibility in the site is gone if that's their engineer.

[@JamieVegas]

As someone who has reverse engineered games before, I would call into question the analysis. Unless the person who did the analysis has a STRONG familiarity with that processor, some of those opcodes might have unexpected results in edge cases, for example, when a value rolls over to zero, or if an RNG produces a value like 0, 1 or 255. So, if a load instruction loads a value into a register, and the following compare instruction is based on a flag like overflow that the analyzer wasn't preparing for in his algorithms, there could be variance. My point is: who validated that this reverse engineering attempt resulted in a VALID, accurate simulation algorithm that a spreadsheet could work with? We're taking his word for it. It really should be simulated by running the actual code on bit-perfect emulator.

[@ColdRoland]

@@JamieVegas Are there many programmers who are not familiar with the processor of something like the Atari 2600, who would attempt such a reverse engeneering? And also sorry for tagging you for a reply this long ago, but I'm genuinely curious.

[@jameson3500]

My favorite is his Fathom high score. Todd's score is 1,110,500, and second place?.... *142!* Since it took 2.5 minutes for the second place score, Todd's run would take roughly 325+ hours to achieve. Todd apparently has the record for longest time awake too!

[@Jrez]

But you can technically get near his score in Barnstorming now, ergo he's obviously done nothing wrong glove doesn't fit you must acquit

[@TheCheat420]

He was on The Ben Heck show and Ben broke it down right in front of Todd's face how it wasn't true and be still said the computer just wasn't playing as well as he was. He's been lying so long he believes his own bullshit.

[@Derkman96]

It doesn't account for the human element though. Duh

[@afterglow-podcast]

To me, Twin Galaxies hasn't been reputable since watching the King of Kong documentary when they kept screwing over Steve Wiebe so that Billy Mitchell always seemed to somehow be on top.

[@inlovewithi]

That's what I was thinking about while watching, after Pat called it the click, good ol boys. Billy Mitchell is part of that club.

[@DerDavenWarrior]

I was just going to comment about that.

[@renterjack]

That movie really represented that scenario in a one sided way.

[@poptop89]

The same goes for Snake Vs Man. When that guy from Italy apparently broke the world record for Nibbler, they refused to accept it as an official score until his score was beaten again by the guy they were rooting for. Sure they didn't have any evidence he did it, but if that's the case why ever accept it at all? At the end of the day it seems they pick and choose their favorites and it pains me to have to say that.

[@Spellfork]

Dramatization or not in King of Kong this Todd Rogers debacle has really shone a light on how unprofessionally Twin Galaxies have logged their high scores. There has been some really shady characters working as refs there and their whole "pal" mentality makes it a horrible organization for keeping and maintaining some kind of official high score records database. If anything they would have needed to have every achieved highscore reviewed by at least two people unrelated to the contestants, preferably by video and by people not connected to the place. There is no way they can ever be taken seriously even if they ban Rogers and remove all his records. This is a great time for any other organization to step in and take over doing it right and legit. I wouldn't really trust anything logged on that site and for me Twin Galaxies are a big joke never to be trusted, ever. Sorry for all the people that have achieved legit highscores, but if someone came to me claiming that they had a highscore and certificate from Twin Galaxies I would just assume the worst.

[@RedArremer]

To correct a point made in the video, Activision themselves did not claim you could get 5.54 in the game. They only theorized that it 'might' be possible to get 5.54. Todd's claimed 5.51 was even better than the theory that Activision had come up with. The REALITY is that nobody in the entire world has been able to break 5.57 legit and actually prove it. Now whats interesting to note is that Todd's original record according to Activision magazine was listed as 5.57. It wasn't until two other individuals got listed as having 5.51 times that Todd's record was 'updated' to 5.51 along with theirs. Even more mysterious is that the other two individuals that were given credit for being the first 5.51 times were then deleted from the roster in subsequent issues. So this got me to thinking what happened here: The original two 5.51 records were clerical error on Activision's part. Todd, not knowing the records were entered by mistake, was effectively forced to fudge a bogus picture of 5.51 to match it, and then since his record had photographic evidence to show 5.51, the other two clerical errors were deleted. This is why Todd's record stayed and the other two guys got deleted. It is very likely the other two guys got 5.57 just like Todd originally did, and clerical error forced Todd into a panic of having to match an impossible time. When you think about it in this context, it makes perfect sense. Todd got caught up in a lie that just happened to carry forward because he submitted a fake photo.

[@TheSupercuber]

Maybe he got 5.57 and wrote it down and the 7 looked like a 1 to him and he went with it as 5.51.

[@Chalky.]

I remember reading about Todd Rogers back in the 80s thinking something seems fishy, but there was very few sources of information back then so just forgot about it for a long time.

[@travisiswin]

I started questioning Twin Galaxies the second they let Billy Mitchell submit the janky as fuck VHS tap where his Donkey Kong score inexplicably jumped after the screen glitched over his score.

[@MistaTofMaine]

Funny as well, that Billy Mitchell was recently exposed as a fraud for some of his scores.

[@DashingPunkSamurai]

Watch it turn out to be Mame

[@wolfmerrik]

I think its a shame that despite the massive public outcry Twin Galaxies took so long to get this all taken care of. I feel they damaged their credibility a lot in doing so.

[@gabrieleriva651]

Wolf Merrik didn’t they already with the shit showed in King of Kong? Or having a referee convicted for being a child rapist?

[@wolfmerrik]

I would agree that The King of Kong definitely made them seem pretentious and closed-minded. The child molester thing sucks, that doesn't need to be said, but a lot of companies at one point or another may have hired a child molester/etc so even though this person's actions were grievous, it doesn't ruin their name in credibility. (I really can't stress enough though that person should rot in hell). I just mean that this scandal really showed their true colors and that they were protecting some sort of legacy that truly wasn't in the interest of gaming, but just in the interest of themselves. That all being said, yes, and yes to answer your questions. I just feel that this damaged them in a way that they likely will never recover from.

[@sluggchrist6471]

Their credibility barely existed to begin with. Billy Mitchell is next

[@misterdoctor8234]

You mean Billy Mamechell

[@sluggchrist6471]

Mister Doctor Called it. GOT'EM!

[@classicbananamilk]

the best bit was how someone calculated how long he would've had to play to get some of these records and some of them were literally three days straight

[@skollrum]

The number 4 didn't exist in the 80s. It was invented in December 1993. 5 and 6 rounded to 7. And 2,3 and what we now consider 4 rounded down to 1.

[@BillehBobJoe]

okay this is funny.

[@jacencade4019]

jesster kind those must be some gooddrugs

[@Duskaria]

Fathom High Scores According to TG: 1st Place: 1,110,500 - Todd Rogers 2nd Place: 142 - Roger Edwin Blair 111 Todd Rogers supposed score is 7820 TIMES HIGHER than 2nd place lmao In order to even get that high of a score, Todd would have had to play the game for over 325 hours straight. Congratulations on yet another record, Todd because the world record time for staying awake is 264.4 hours (11 days 25 minutes) by Randy Gardner. or the Centipede High Score: 1st Place: 65,000,000 - Todd Rogers 2nd Place: 58,078 - John Marks Again a score that is 1120 TIMES higher than 2nd place.

[@alexcorba6262]

I don't get how even a single person could have trust it

[@RetrofIex]

I am honestly not even sure if Todd was ever even a “good player” or not. With hundreds of lazy, illogical fake scores, it’s almost as if he didn’t even play the game to understand what a believeable fake score would be... like DK or Wabbit

[@friendlyoctopus3512]

I dunno if the coffee stain defense or the Rogue gamma ray defense is my favorite excuse. I would have to say the rogue gamma ray, that is just too funny.

[@calvinthedestroyer]

Those Cubains and their ray guns... lol what?

[@EmpressTiffanyOfBrittany]

Looking back on King of Kong is heartbreaking now. It was right there in front of our faces and nobody could possibly think Twin Galaxies are dirty bastards. They cheated that poor guy out of a score.

[@iTadakimAsu85]

A 20 minute CUPodcast segment followed by a 23 minute segment?! Thanks dudes! Always enjoy the longer segments after a long days work

[@billymitchell7403]

Tooth fairy

[@GetzaBerry1it]

Yeah saw a video with Todd in an interview with the dragster game set up on the old system. Only got 5.57 and started saying, "The cameras are bugging me too much, [...] the lighting feels off [...] the controller is too sensitive..." You get the point. After said interview he sent the reporter a photo saying he finally got it. It looked blocky as 144p, except the last digit which looked like a photoshop 4.

[@stefanm.734]

Even if all Todd Rogers' runs are faked, you have to admit he's certainly left an impact on the speedrunning community as a whole. His rampant cheating across multiple different records has taught people to be more careful when accepting runs, and is why so many long-standing runs are being discovered as fake. It's like the Scientific Revolution of speedrunning.

[@TheSupercuber]

He holds the record for cheating on the most consoles.

[@mitsota101]

I take all my high score business to Speedrun.com personally, because it's community moderated and not only are there very strict rules for how any score and speedrun can be submitted, but within that each game has communal rules agreed upon by the community, and your submissions are vetted by people who actually play the games.

[@kpyrz]

If you've ever seen the movie Chasing Ghosts, you can see why this guy was holding on to his glory from the 80's. This guy's life is an absolute disaster.

[@avenuePad]

I am by no means defending Todd Rodgers, but the 2nd place Centipede score was pretty weak. I got close to that score recently after one night of playing the game. All I am saying is that you can't necessarily discount a first place score based on the shitty scores other players entered. That said, 65 million is ridiculous. There is obviously something up.

[@amma322]

avenuePad Actually, many people aren't submitting scores on TG because it's not reliable the way they "judge" the scores, even people that work there say that...

[@avenuePad]

I'm not surprised, but my original point still stands.

[@pingamalinga]

Its insane and something is definitely up with that score.

[@hamstrungharry259]

Man, I guess you guys really... Dragged this one out.

[@monk-ld3jt]

Nice....

[@PatTheNESpunk]

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@sspotter1978]

Remember how much trouble Twin Galaxies made for Steve Wiebe, but seemed to give Billy Mitchell a free pass. Something is rotten in Denmark.

[@MagnumSkyWolf]

sspotter1978 "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"

[@stormkelleh]

As an Iowan living in Iowa.... yes... blame Denmark

[@TheVHSReviver]

The one dislike must be Tod Rogers. Great segment.

[@FigureFarter]

The other 66 are Billy Mitchell and his colleagues

[@gtribejive876]

Love when these segments pop up randomly on my feed. 👍

[@sonnieandjacob]

I admire the both of you fellows. Podcast is great for speeding up my day thanks alot

[@PSVitaat2am]

It's perfect for watching on break after work.

[@yojeffrow5505]

The only legit record Todd Rogers holds is most bullshit scores attempted to claim were legit

[@JC-qu5lv]

I think he probably managed a 5.57 and that smudged could easily look like a 5.51.

[@pingamalinga]

Yeah something like that for sure. Theres no question he played it a lot as a teen and when the error occurred and coincided with the 3/100 of a second timer, he just didnt say anything.

[@pizzzer]

Glad someone like Pat is putting this out here. Saw the reddit post a week ago, and haven’t heard much since. Hope Todd gets what’s coming to him

[@ThatguycalledJoe]

What I think happened is that Todd Rodgers took a shitty picture, either by accident or on purpose, and said it was a 5.51. They bought it, and he either was lying in the first place, or he didn't intend to lie, but ran with it and lost his mind.

[@thelightupmario]

You guys got omnigamer's proof for 5.57 slightly wrong. Todd is actually correct in saying that a tool assisted run may not be the lowest time because new glitches can be discovered later that lower it. However, omnigamer actually exhausted all possibilities that the game can be played through code analysis.

[@Seriona1]

You clearly don't understand what a TAS does, with TAS, you can go into the game frame and frame and see where it can go. If there is a glitch, TAS would of seen it. TASers said the only way 5.51 is possible if it Todd fired his drag racer one frame before the game allows it which TAS can't do.

[@thelightupmario]

A human cannot possibly test every single possible input on every possible frame by hand. Also, not all tas'es look at the code directly. A human can easily miss something in a game. In fact, just last year a new glitch was found in Super Mario 64 that allowed the tas to skip the first key. The reason they were so sure the game couldn't go faster was that omnigamer used computer programs to do some analysis and a lot of simulations to brute force out every single possibility.

[@Seriona1]

The first key skip has been known for some time. Back to the point, as said before, Todd would of had to fire one frame before the game allowed to get the score he claimed to get. People out there said that was technically possible if the scripts for the game glitched out, radiation sometimes can change numbers that allow weird shit to happen. Regardless, the whole situation is fucking smells of cheating. No photos, no video, only confirmed by referee that clearly was a friend of Todd, several other records impossible to get proved by allowing games to get a straight line, score numbers that are impossible to get, Todd allowing to add his own scores directly, high scores that would take hours beyond normal 'comfort' levels, top scores that are sometimes as high and ten to twenty times as second place even going as high as hundred times over second, and the cherry on top, some players being unable to even get close to Todd's scores. The only favorable in his claim is that some people did beat his scores in some random ass game.

[@thelightupmario]

Dude I'm not trying to defend Todd here, I'm just saying that in general tas's are not necesarily the absolute minimum time possible because they can't normally be as exhaustive as the dragster tas in finding glitches and exploits. Tas times for games have gotten lower over the years and will continue to do so.

[@Seriona1]

You're entire point is that his scores has merit.

[@brennanterry5530]

Damn, now no one will believe my 2.3 billion Donkey Kong high score.

[@rexapis2125]

Brennan Terry You should have gotten Todd to verify it..

[@DevilSurvivor69]

This was the beginning of Todd Rogers downfall, and boy it got really crazy after this lol.

[@Mentally_Hilarious]

King of Kong was the absolute worst thing that happened to twin galaxies. They got way too much exposure. Notice the only guy in that movie associated with twin galaxies that wanted to see Steve succeed was the guy that got exposed as a cheat early back in the 80's.

[@ppstorm_]

6:15 "intensive purposes" LMAOOOOOOOOOOO

[@blackoverblueskies6221]

He's a cheater. There's no way to recreate the world record. The data-miners say it's not in the code or whatever. Look at the facts.

[@bayrockdev]

Really happy to see all these different sources exposing this topic now that the dispute has settled. It makes the grind for 5.57 worth that much more.

[@MrJWTH]

Technically it’s possible to defeat a tool assisted speed run if a new glitch or exploit is discovered but with a game this basic and old it’s highly unlikely that something of this nature has been unnoticed for so long.

[@thrillhouse4151]

This has always been a mystery of sorts to me, and hilarious! I can just envision this guy in the 70's and 80's REALLY REALLY wanting to get the high score NO MATTER WHAT.

[@Rkiser0592]

I started listening instead of watching clips and now that I am watching a clip again it is blowing my mind....

[@rexapis2125]

spiderweb_ Your mind blown...seriously, dude?

[@stt5v2002]

“Some day on the far future, even Billy Mitchell might be questioned.” “Breaking news, Billy Mitchell’s score is probably fraudulent!”

[@Asterra2]

You guys will definitely be talking about Donkey Kong pretty soon. Billy Mitchell's scores were done on MAME. All people are waiting on now is to see how big of a hole he will dig in his efforts to double down.

[@rexapis2125]

Asterra2 That hole is looking pretty big so far..

[@Lovuschka]

Todd Rogers, once king of videogames, now holds a world record that surely can't be beaten, given out by Apollo Legend, of "greatest cheater in gaming history"... in the Twilight Zone

[@zackschilling4376]

Always love rewatching the classics, funny how a lot of things like this are similar - An insular community where the foxes are watching the hen houses - be it WATA or the old Twin Galaxies crew where they say what goes and who is in the in-crowd, and you aint invited! At least Jace Hall has tried to clean up that scoreboard no matter how much Billy Mitchell whines and throws a fit.

[@somanymods]

Lying about your times on the internet is one of the most important parts of real drag racing too.

[@PunkNDisorderlyGamer]

If Activision signed off on his claim for the records back in the day, surely David Crane was in the know how of what went down. As lead programmer for dragster he must know something, someone try to get a hold of him and ask.

[@shellac23]

PunkNDisorderlyGamer nofx fan?

[@PunkNDisorderlyGamer]

John Ballard yes!

[@Miasmark]

I remember my best friend complaining of those rediculous scores 20 years ago. We suspect his system was glitched or modded.

[@hethdavid]

I solved the Case ! During the original record keeping somebody mistook a "7" for a "1" with a serif. The score was officially recorded incorrectly due to the error and after so many years no one is willing to admit the fault.

[@Randalor]

That's probably what it was originally, but the problem is that everyone's been perpetuating the 5.51score for so long that none of them want to be the ones to say "Listen, it was a mistake, his actual score was 5.57 but the photo was blurry and the 7 looked like a 1".

[@ozrithclay6921]

No. Go look into Todd Rodgers. He made up impossible records and had a friend TG judge say he saw them. Including the dragster 5.51.

[@jacencade4019]

Randalor or hes a liar making shit up about his true skill because he doesnt actually have any real skills except lying publicly about video game scores and those are just bullshit excuses

[@RavenRuled]

Great stuff. I think part of the problem too is that most people didn't know records were kept and didn't achieve high enough to notice. Also people wouldn't think that the upper echelons would fake it too. Some of course one could figure out with a calculator.

[@benjaminyoung9694]

Todd once said in an online forum that he got that score by activating some kind of glitch that aloud him to start the race in the second gear. Not outside the realm of possibility. But if its true he must of played the game poorly afterwards because you would of got a way less time then 5.51 starting in the second gear.

[@lightningprowess6031]

But if you pay attention to all of Todd records all of them have a very impossible score,hundreds of them I can only think 2 possibilities 1.He found super glitchs in all of his records(hundreds of them) 2.He faked all of his records you can choose yourself which one is more real

[@parappathegamer2118]

I'm so happy this whole thing is being talked about more and more now

[@skram7]

That 2nd place on Centipede was mine...lol

[@instantshow4333]

well now you're number 1. congrats :)

[@Wflash00]

@Matt Beckley Here you go - oh no I spilled acetone on it!!!

[@TheTurnipKing]

1:33 the obvious example being the "kill screen" on Pacman I don't care enough to call the man a liar, but based on the collected evidence and assuming that he wasn't using some official, but undumped variation of the game or something equally esoteric, it seems VERY unlikely that this is a legitimate score.

[@fibrodad1354]

billy Mitchell has some dodgy shit with glitchy videos when he got beat. twin galaxies should be turned into a museum and scores held elsewhere and added via a committee

[@KOSMOS1701A]

I've never even heard of Twin Galaxies before this whole thing exploded

[@CallousCoder]

All scores on a digital system can relatively easily be manipulated, so unless the systems are checksummed sealed (not networked, no ports accessible) and played at the same time in a live event a score is suspect.

[@LarryLopez91]

Todd Rogers gets 15000000 in Donkey Kong. Second place is not even 400000... I'm dead.

[@langleyzor7547]

Awesome one guys! Keep up the good work.

[@mackstertube]

It would suck for people who actually might have some honest records. They might have practiced for years and spent all their childhood allowance practicing and now it gets taken away because of lying cheating bastards.

[@DrewberTravels]

Twin Galaxies has always been a club for these guys. It is not surprising that they tried to deflect some of the SHAME associated with lying about a video game achievement...

[@Rkiser0592]

they forgot to tell todd: they added a "human element" slider to the TAS kit

[@latuman]

You should never need to reverse engineer the original game, or run a TAS on it. It's meaningless. Just look at the original "evidence". If you find it lacking, you, me, everyone should not believe it to be valid. The evidence seems to be nothing more than word of mouth. Really? Who's standards are those? And should they be respected in any way?

[@AirZonkWorldChamp]

Yeah, I recently voted to remove many of his scores from the website but it definitely took awhile. Many of them were Turbografx-16 records with so called perfect scores with zero evidence.

[@TheCreepypro]

haven't even heard of twin galaxies before this but yeah never hurts to double check especially when there is no physical evidence

[@mrdangerdave]

"It should be over in less than ten seconds". The motto of my sex life :'(

[@ClassicTrialsChannel]

I feel sorry for the guys that should have had these records, he has cheated them out of the glory

[@PSVitaat2am]

Heard about it this morning, what some people won't do.

[@WolfsDE]

I am going to say this to Twin Galaxies as well. All scores for the classic games (everything pre-2006) if it can't be verified on video and witness account, the score should be thrown out. You want to prove you have a top 10 all time score, let's have a tournament and prove you are legit. Twin Galaxies, reps from Nintendo, Sega, Atari and Activision have to be there. Pat, you should be there, so should James Rolfe and Mike as well. Both channels broadcasting this tournament on KZbin. Home consoles set up, arcade versions set up, everything verified and in public. I am sorry if Billy Mitchell or Steve Weibe gets drug into this fray. But at this point, we need a new tournament to prove your scores are legit. It needs to be public. Gaming experts need to be on hand. Period. Set a date, some time this summer. Everyone who gives a damn about these scores, needs to be there. It needs to be broadcast live over several KZbin channels. Otherwise, I say toss out the top 10 scores for all of them and make people prove it again.

[@TwistC]

Jason Bitzegaio ye lets just get all of Nintendo to be there for something they don't care about. Good

[@TwistC]

Jason Bitzegaio also pat, james, and mike would add no credibility to this meet up. They're commentators and internet personalities

[@ultimateflexzone9348]

You need to calm down

[@maxxdahl6062]

....james rolfe and mike? What would that add?

[@MagnumSkyWolf]

There's a guy on KZbin who got level 30 on tetris and he claims he's score was refused by twin galaxy even though you clearly see he does it. As far as I know thor is the only one who has level 30

[@therrydicule]

I don't get why someone would cheat on such record.

[@jameson3500]

Todd made a career out of it, so there's that.

[@therrydicule]

Neon Fluorescent Dog I don't see a girl playing with a penis for this record....

[@DonkeyPuncher1976]

Funny this is being talked about. I just tried for a High Score with Twin Galaxies for my favorite game for the Sega Master System called Teddy Boy. I have never tried ever for a high score on this site or even cared about high scores. This was a game I played as a kid and adored. By the way I killed the high score easily and I am actually proud of it. Go check out Teddy Boy :)

[@DonkeyPuncher1976]

Haha thank you. I really don't care about high scores but Teddy Boy was a game I played as a kid in the 80's with my whole family. I feel like this is my game and no one is allowed to post a high score on it :)

[@shepergames3734]

DonkeyPuncher1976 I'm kind of the same way in that I don't really care about scores or achievements but in modern games I will actually attempt to complete them as a kind of token to show my respect for the game if I truly fall in love with it.

[@rexapis2125]

DonkeyPuncher1976 *No-one, not "know one"

[@DonkeyPuncher1976]

haha oops

[@dantheman8103]

I never followed this before the recent news of cheaters caught. But when I saw some of those supposed scores Todd Rodgers had... I don't care if you know nothing about a game in question. When a second place score is something like 60,000 and his first place score is 12,000,000.... seriously? Even knowing nothing about the game someone with common sense could tell you that isn't right. And coming up with scores that are impossible in a game because it scores in variables of 50 then your supposed score is something like 9,999,990... which is a number impossible to get in variables of 50... I mean did he even play these games before he made up a rediculous scores. And I know it is mean but how pathetic do you have to be to make up things like this thousands of times? What do you even gain? These people sure don't seem to be getting rich, are there 18 year old hotties for groupies... I mean why would you need that recognition so much you would lie to that degree just to keep getting it over and over again? 99.99% of the world not only doesn't care but would laugh at someone for thinking that is something to brag about in the first place... and he went to those extremes... how fragile is your ego? I mean if these people were making money, getting hot girls throwing themselves at them and living some rock star lifestyle off of these lies I would at least get why they did it... but unless I am missing a lot that isn't even remotely true... why live a lie for decades such a minimal return on all of it?

[@CMRetroGaming]

no one has ever seen Billy Mitchell get a perfect Pac Man score in person either! they were either video tapped or claimed collaborated by "friends"

[@unclelou4839]

I remember this guy well from the various gaming mags/TV appearances at the time. (Born in 74 here.) Fraud Rogers. Also, 'Twin Galaxies' is more crooked than a roach leg....Billy Mitchell, anyone? Ugh.

[@Your_Degenerate]

18:58 keep your light on for me Ian.

[@TheIrishBub]

I find it kinda funny that 551 people liked this video before I did.

[@BriansManCave]

I always blow up the engine ..LOL

[@aidenpoketrainer9280]

Youve gained a subscriber :)

[@Its__Good]

My best time for flying a concorde from New York to London is 53 minutes. Prove me wrong . . .

[@MrKellyRFlewin]

I can verify that there is at least one person who has shown that quite a few seemingly impossible 80's scores are actually possible and that's John McAllister. He has some of the most impressive raw skills I have ever witnessed in person. He makes some of the more brutal games a freaking cake walk. [Star Castle for another example.] Another such person is Donald Hayes. who has done some absolutely phenomenal stuff on games that blow everything away. So there ARE people out there who can prove a fair amount of validity.... but there's still most likely a fair amount that are indeed bunk.

[@DLH112]

My favorite score is the one where 2nd place is 142 and he had something like 1,115,000 which would take at least 2 weeks straight of playing

[@jameson3500]

Fathom is that game.

[@Bitstacker]

Did you guys do a segment on dream? Or did i miss it lol

[@ZykovEddy]

I'm so glad this cheater is being exposed!

[@Podcastforthewin]

I’m glad to see you moved to the shore sm7b. but what are you powering those energy hungry beasts?

[@The_Real_DCT]

Funny enough Billy Mitchell's Donkey Kong record is being looked at as possibly being fake or has come out as fake

[@ObiTrev]

There is only one possible way that his score is genuine. The game was defective, not seated properly, etc. I would love to see if there are any minute circumstances that could produce the same result. Not to validate him of course, but just for S&G.

[@vir042]

The problem with that is that he claims he got the score 3 times and one of those times was at some event so that would be on a different system because i doubt he brought his own atari to the event..

[@VanArtic]

all that todd needed to do to prove its real was either do it in front of cameras (unlikely, he's not in his prime anymore to do something like this) or share his tech with other people so that they could reproduce it ..if it was real that is, which isn't

[@Ultra-Collector]

Frames do not line up,the rate difference you need to just get a 5.54 from 5.57 is far to high! like a possible rate difference of 11 to 200+,so to get a 5.51 is astronomical and not possible.

[@wompastompa3692]

RiP Todd Fraudgers

[@coolwrld115]

I think I heard that Billy Mitchel is being looked at for using MAME on the first over 1M score of DK

[@dirteinc]

if the game counts time in .03 ticks, it is impossible to get 5.51, 5.54 or even 5.57 .... 183X.03=5.49 184X.03=5.52 etc

[@rexapis2125]

dirteinc You're incorrect...and the fastest time possible is 5.57

[@mikeall7012]

Factor is to the power of. So factor of 2 is times 100. Factor of 100 would be 100 zeroes added to the score. I cant belive I corrected this and apologize for the broken part of my brain that urged me to do this.

[@nathanjedrej2742]

Even if king of kong was biased to steve weibe, some of the twin galaxies just didn't come across well at all, no matter how you edit it.

[@robertmcknightmusic]

Someone needs to look into Paul Dean's 9.5 million Spy Hunter score...

[@theswapmeetflea]

Up Next Video: *Todd Rogers banned from Twin Galaxies*

[@joshuanorris5860]

Lol ian: "make a band!" Funny because he just did

[@kmaru80]

I'm with Ian. Throw out the old scores or at least set them aside as unverified and open the doors for new players