Dramatization shames women who talk too much at family worship

[@tkat6442]

The skit was meant to demonstrate something bad about the woman, but all I got out of it was how insecure the man was.

[@MichaelLudden]

Wow. Showing the children looking weirded out that a woman was speaking was a "nice" touch lol

[@victoriaduncan5137]

So this thinking and teaching is basically setting women up to be abused. Not to question abuse of others, if perpetrated by a man. It's no wonder things like child abuse is a huge issue in this cult :(

[@kir0nz]

It also works in the reverse. As a man you are expected to take that role and be in control. Your "wife" is too mouthy? That is your fault for not keeping her under your thumb. Factually repulsive (I do not like the word "truthfully" as truth is subjective, but facts are not).

[@victoriaduncan5137]

@@kir0nz ... Maybe, but I imagine the man would be guided in the best ways to 'tame' the wife into submission. The woman would be shamed and chastised. A huge difference.

[@kir0nz]

@@victoriaduncan5137 For reference I thought it was sexist that I was forced to do public speaking whilst biological females were not.

[@victoriaduncan5137]

@@kir0nz .. women are forced into silence. At least as a man, you still have a voice. It may not be a choice, but only through your voice can you advocate for yourself and others. Who advocates for the children while the women are silenced?

[@jakelynbrook]

St. Paul walked the earth 2 thousand years ago, times changed since then; unfortunately with this cult, human nature never changes!

[@seitisetsoh4991]

She knows how her kids learn best, when she says "an illustration would be better," and when she points out about new information, in a normal, healthy relationship, the response would be "oh, okay/that helps/thanks I'll take that into account"

[@tetrasoup2945]

Maybe they should have set up the study together…oh, right…

[@jolenecarney7514]

Nope, a normal conversation like that would go like this -husband - what this is supposed to mean……… Wife- don’t you think an illustration would be better? Husband-Come on dear don’t start pulling out pictures and stuff! Let’s get this over with as quickly as possible.!!! Kids-Yeah let’s do this quick, can we be done now mom and dad this is stupid why do we have to do this every Wednesday night? So so stupid! Husband all right yeah you know what forget it forget it everybody just go to your homework!!!!!!!!!!! Kids-Yes!!!!!!!!!!! Wife-hmph!!!! I’m gonna go take a bath. Husband- Goes to fridge and cracks open a beer.

[@bbnCRLB]

And they made the kids look shocked as if they know it's a bad thing.

[@womanofcharacter]

I was going to share my opinion but as a woman, I'd better keep my mouth shut and remember my place.

[@urmenyi]

Just in time. Great. 😂

[@kamion53]

as the Dutch saying goes: "Vrouw uw recht is aanrecht " (in English: "Woman your right is the kitchensink" does carry wel)

[@angelamaryquitecontrary4609]

@@kamion53' Kinder, Kirche, Küche' as some other b@st@rd once opined. You know, the one who took all your bicycles. x

[@jolenecarney7514]

Epic!!! You captured the essence of this misogynistic brainwashing lesson in one phrase!

[@rogerlau4932]

The verses in 1 Corinthians 14:33b-35 state that women are to be silent in church and should ask their husbands questions at home, rather than asking them in the church service, interrupting it. In fact, there are some NT Greek manuscripts (mss D, F, G, 800s-1000s AD) where the verses are placed in different places in chapter fourteen. Dr. Gordon Fee, late theologican and professor (or was) at Regent College in Vancouver BC, believes the verses were originally written in the margin of the text in an early copy of 1 Corinthians (but not in the original copy written by Paul), but that later copyists assumed they were to be added into the text, hence the different locations chosen by later copyists. Fee was a pentecostal evangelical, and believed women should be in pastoral ministry, unlike more Baptisty-evangelical types, who think the verses should stay put in 1 Corinthians 14, mainly because there is, as yet, no NT Greek text where the verses are completely missing. Examples of verses that HAVE been removed from the Bible, due to early NT Greek texts that don't have them at all, are 1) the "Trinity verse" of 1 John 4:7-8, 2) the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 7:53-8:11, and 3) the end of the Gospel of Mark, after verse 8. There was HUGE controversy and debate about "removing parts of the Bible,"………but………you couldn't ignore the fact that the earliest copies of 1 John, Gosepl of John, and Gospel of Mark DIDN'T have those verses in them. So all modern Bibles have removed them! That's pretty bold, especially for evangelicals to go along with it. If an early NT Greek manuscript of 1 Corinthians gets discovered, that would have those "women-be-silent" verses missing, that would start a real discussion about whether or not to keep them in the Bible. One interesting note. IF you read 1 Corinthians 14, and skip over those verses (33b-35) the following text makes MUCH MORE sense without them! Leaving them in feels like driving over a speed bump. So if those verses aren't in the original text of 1 Corinthians, why would some copyist write them as a note in the margin? A likely possibility, is that the early church followed the example of Jewish synagogues, in having men on one side of the aisle, and women on the other, so wives would be separated from their husbands. If there were Christian congregations with puzzled wives, who would loudly whisper to their husbands "Hey hon, what does ‘propitiation‘ mean?", that might get distracting. And that's exactly what those verses seem to be about. Maybe that's why churches don't separate men and women anymore. And that maybe, women shouldn't be separated from church leadership positions anymore. Amen?

[@yikesyikes5974]

My mom always taught me to be outspoken. A brother told my mom she better teach me how to be silent or I will never be married. That same brother constantly cheated on his wife and his wife just grinned and beared it. I be damned and my mother be damned too. She hated how JW treated women.

[@ever7672]

Yes my mum was the same. She loved “the truth” yes hated how women were viewed and treated. She saw so many women get robbed of love, family and the chance for children. She never understood it

[@SeattleDinghyer]

Gimme a woman who is my intellectual equal any day of the week. I want someone who makes me better by tactfully pointing out my flaws, and my strengths, not some deferring robot who does everything I ask just because I was born male.

[@kamion53]

"what's her son learning about taking the lead as the man of the house" well, my dear creepy Spleen, he learned that when the man is a first class duffus like his stepdad, mother has to take the initiative. like she has done already his whole life.

[@chrissyparkins1615]

The biggest surprise to me is that I actually made it 39 years swallowing this garbage happily 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@kevink2593]

Congratulations on your successful escape. Were/are your parents/siblings JWs?

[@chrissyparkins1615]

My parents were, but my sister left in her early 20’s. She’s not disfellowshipped, so I’m the absolute black sheep. And honestly? I’ve never been happier. It’s hard sometimes, of course. But I didn’t lose, I gained ☺️❤️

[@kellyevans207]

It is sexist! So women should only speak when spoken to? As a woman, I find this horribly insulting!

[@Ballykeith]

It's funny how he says, "Let's watch a video.' Yeah, let's grab some popcorn and immerse ourselves in some more sexist and homophobic filth.

[@bobdobbs8700]

Sisters, don't correct your husband's errors in public. Instead, let him make a fool of himself in front of everyone -- it's much more amusing that way.

[@laymanphil8513]

A fulfilled JW family is a family where the woman remains in the place that the Watchtower has dedicated to her and if unfortunately, she changes this place, the whole family will be upset and that is why the illustrations of the perfect world seen by the Watchtower depict the women serving meals. Well, if this new world is full of joy, you have to think that women's greatest joy will be serving meals to men.

[@jaflenbond7854]

All fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian religions rejected the God and Father of the Christ as worthless and useless, not worthy and deserving to be honored and obeyed as their loving, kind, and merciful God and Heavenly Father. All fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian religions who are mocking and degrading the Christ's TRUTHS and righteousness as worthless and useless will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths. TRUTHFUL, kind, and loving persons who rejected the anti-Christs' LIES and foolishness as worthless and useless will live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the Kingdom of God under the loving rulership, guidance, and protection of the Creator's Chosen King, His Christ.

[@artsavesusall-7051]

This is precisely why I left - the number one reason. I spent YEARS of my life, being subjected to the constant drip, drip, drip of this poison. It's not your position, you don't have a voice, wifely subjection and on and on and ON. Let me tell you how it feels to sit through this time and again, your head down - mentally, I would go to another place. Constantly reminded of your role as second class citizen. It angered me as a young woman (and let me ask this: how in the HELL did my parents miss the Gloria Steinem reading material in my possession during high school?!) and it continued to infuriate me into adulthood. It made me physically sick to my stomach. Finally got the eggs up to leave. And my amazing, truly exemplary partner (an elder at the time) left with me.

[@rogerlau4932]

If your partner joined you in leaving, then he (?) is actually demonstrating biblical character and behavior. He is a truly biblical example of someone demonstrating an "elder's" character. Good for him. Good for you.

[@LucieNan]

I really enjoy the work you put in your videos Lloyd. I don’t comment often enough but I had to this time. They are so backward, even choosing the home to record their dramatization. Green refrigerator, yellow wallpaper, plaid curtains !! Is that what JW’s home look like?

[@horseheadkid]

i moved into a house previously owned by JWs (still get a letter every six months saying all my problems will be lessened if i go to their meeting or go to their website) and the weirdest thing ever is the wardrobes. they had renovated every wardrobe in the house so that it's shelving only. my housemate and i had to buy clothes racks and put them in the spare room just to hang our clothes up?!? every other room - shelves only. it's not "wrong" or anything, it's just totally freaking weird. 😆

[@greyberet1]

@@horseheadkid There’s much more than that which is weird about the jws!!

[@Petemonster62]

@@horseheadkid - How would the men & boys hang up their suits?

[@thebestevernurseshow9427]

Yes because they aren’t allowed to go to college to earn money to redo their homes 😂

[@LucieNan]

@@thebestevernurseshow9427 yeah. It’s a message to JW’s on how they should live. It’s a guilt trip for those who spent their money on renewing their homes. Should have put your money on the org.

[@Vinciini83]

Lessons like these really capture the Hallmark moment of 'pissing on me and telling me it's rain'.

[@tanyademont3744]

Even when I was an active JW I often got frustrated with the structure and hierarchy. I told my husband that it was a Boy's Club and always would be.

[@bigcorky4687]

I'd love to see the governing body dressed up as the village people singing YMCA it would be hilarious 😂

[@kawehionalani]

They do that when the cameras aren’t filming

[@SeattleDinghyer]

Instead they chant, "Why listen to us? Why listen to uh us....?"

[@joannecheckley1280]

My husband wasn't interested in taking the family study, so I took it and tried to make it fun. When my husband did take it, it was dull, like a Watchtower study. Just because you're a man doesn't make you a good teacher.

[@thebestevernurseshow9427]

Yet we are looked down on if we don’t speak up enough during meetings…can’t win either way…

[@dmtfiend5050]

Wow there’s no way they can share this and nobody think this is not wrong. This is absolutely appalling!

[@SDTheStoryTeller]

I absolutely love this! Thank you, Lloyd! Side thought…it’s tripping me out to see a yang wan from my old congregation in the Deep South in this dramatization.

[@Ty-ri7dy]

I have always been concerned by the concept of a person having a "natural use." WTF is a use? Is the natural use of a person sexual? That's all that matters, that's your natural use, to have heterosexual sex? It is the stupidest thing I can think of. Do they even consider the words that come out of their mouth, or do they only care that they come from the Bible?

[@BigMikePlays]

He isn't their real daddy first of all second of all if she knows more then him she should be leading.

[@morningglory9288]

In my opinion, she's down right rude constantly interrupting her husband, who does that?

[@n0tgunshy]

@@morningglory9288 It’s called cooperative overlapping and acceptable in many familiar dynamics. It’s not intended to be rude, though from an outside perspective, it may appear that way. Also, it’s overdone for dramatic effect, of course. And lastly, the point of this video is that “a woman should know her place.”

[@046designerjane]

I cant help but think of the Taliban in Afghanistan. Yes, im a woman & my blood is boiling!

[@seitisetsoh4991]

I've seen a few comments finding fault in the mother for constantly interrupting the husband, I understand your point, but Splain doesn't even address the common manners of interrupting someone. Instead he focuses on how wrong it is for her to even speak, even when giving "vital" information, such as new light (which would be considered life or death to a devout jw). If he truly wanted to teach an important lesson, he should have spoke about the value of not interrupting someone. And how the mother could have guided the step-father in effective teaching, which he could then use in his own preaching work. I don't know how Splain would get around the "new light" issue though? If you know a vital instruction has been updated, everyone should be duty bound to speak up.

[@pamelaruth7400]

great point imo the script was written like this so that noone would think that it was ok what the wife 'did' since she suddenly lost all her manners yet that isnt the 'lesson' that they are 'teaching' it is 'that a woman doesnt teach' and that 'the man is always her head' whom 'she should never correct even when he is wrong'

[@tetrasoup2945]

Yes, and if the wife was allowed to help prepare the study, maybe he wouldn’t be in the spot to look like a goofus…

[@MariaNunes-po5rc]

The WT man seems to be very insecure. If someone speaker oftentimes about same issue That means ...they need to reinforce that ideia into other people's mind . In order to feel in control... Why ?? It's all about being insecure.

[@ilcommendatore4752]

"Now here is the set up: For a long time this sister's been married to a ministerial servant , as time passed , her husband was named an elder..... " Now this wonderful sister knows evreryones' private bussiness and spreads her wisdom as an elderlette...

[@lunatantric6060]

Updated understanding....WOW....so the leaders tell them HOW to read the bible and not just to study.

[@tomalebine2778]

This is so beyond sick, they need to be shut down, this is abusive

[@benstevinson764]

Jesus Christ ✝️ had Respect for Women and Treated them with Dignity and Love ❤️

[@jasmineduran6731]

Great point! I never realized how Jehovah's Witnesses want us to be Christ-like but then turn around and act the total opposite of how Jesus wants us to be.

[@hollywright6414]

"we have an updated understanding in the recent watchtower" is literally all you should need to hear to open your eyes

[@taylora6087]

Man-Splane-ing

[@angelamaryquitecontrary4609]

Chapeau!

[@ElischebaTV]

They always look for very handsome and beautiful actors. ☺️

[@ermiasm5785]

Tibor is gracious 👌🏾

[@petermcgregor5268]

I was sexually assaulted by a elder brother elder who was doing homosexual acts all I hear is lies and deceit

[@angelamaryquitecontrary4609]

I am so sorry that happened to you. What a truly terrible cult this is.

[@petermcgregor5268]

@@angelamaryquitecontrary4609 hey thank you and I was living with my dad's sister my beautiful Aunt and Uncle who were sucked in by the Paradise on Earth and I was 5yrs old when the abuse happened and I got called a liar and when I got older I joined the army and I went to see my aunt and uncle and they were at the kingdom hall and the sicko wierdo was talking to someone who's kids were around and I said get away from him he is a child molester and he tried to be nice to me and him and his elders and I got the truth out of him and they say they are god's organisation and do the things that God hates and I got the truth out of him after he threw a punch at me and I just put him down on the ground and had him in a wrist lock

[@angelamaryquitecontrary4609]

@@petermcgregor5268 Good for you! I would have watched the hell out of that.

[@petermcgregor5268]

@@angelamaryquitecontrary4609 you would have gotten a good laugh out of it and I exposed him for what he is a wolf 🐺 in 🐑 clothing and they have a worse child molester cases then the Catholic church least they admit it but JWs are just misleading people Christ said that there would be false prophets and there teaching and doctrine change's lies

[@alyssawoodman]

Here are some resources for healing: Bonnie Zieman Reboot After Recovery From Trauma Shunned A Survival Guide Fading Out Of The JW Cult A Memoir Cracking The Cult Code For Therapists The Challenge To Heal After Leaving A High Control Group Exiting The JW Cult A Healing Handbook

[@demmimorelle4654]

Now, if the son is a baptised witness, would he not have been taking family worship when ithey were a single parent family? 💖🇦🇺🐨

[@dinara_safina]

I remember going into morning service one time and there was no brother around to lead us into prayer. The other sisters went crazy trying to look for a head covering. I was never fully mentally in, so it just made me sad. Also, David Splane looks like a woman I knew in my old congregation and I feel so bad because she was really nice, lol.

[@n0tgunshy]

Yes, I had that same experience! I was just a child and already I was thinking, “This is so backwards.”

[@dinara_safina]

I remember too finding an old Watchtower that showed JWs celebrating Christmas. I asked one sister, whom I adored at the time, why we couldn't do this anymore and she looked at me all Stepford wife like and said, "the light just gets brighter and brighter." Yikes.

[@n0tgunshy]

@@dinara_safina Ugh. I have to wonder if she even believed that herself.

[@dinara_safina]

@@n0tgunshy Sadly, I think she did.

[@n0tgunshy]

@@dinara_safina 😒

[@plumpynumnum7735]

From a religion that is already mostly made up of more women then men to begin with its so odd that they still have to take a backseat and watch while an Elder tells her children or husband that they're aren't doing enough for Jehovah. I watched my mom do this for years and take so much crap from elders in the congregation like her skirt barely went above the knee she got shamed for that alone. Yeah, this organization is terrible and will always blame others for its own problems it causes others.

[@minimobilereview6570]

oh good morning ☕☕☕ coffee time and Lloyd's amazing content for me nice one bringing light to how it really is under the head of the household attitude matey it was exactly how you say I remember women had to cover their heads if they were required to say a prayer in the absence of a male!!!! Nutters

[@brunonunes1626]

This is just so cringe… I left 10 years ago and it’s amazing how nothing changes… this lot is stuck in time…

[@TwoWheelWarrior]

Way to go buddy!

[@marwatson7408]

How can a man take the leader in the family when he can’t even think for himself whenever he was around these people. I wanted a man who can think for himself and teach all of his children to think for themselves including a daughter. It just made me so sick🤢🤮 to see how the organization just looked down on women on everything this is not the message I wanted to send to my future children. This is one of the many reasons why I never married into this and had children I wasn’t raising them in this nonsense.

[@gbunting7905]

The organisation is not consistent when it comes to having men as being the head. If a JW couple should marry in a Registry Office and the marriage ceremony is performed by a woman, the organisation, the elders, etc., all accept the marriage as legally and religiously valid. They don't all get precious about the matter, they accept it

[@rueben2720]

Here is one Christians interpretation: At 1st cor. 11:5, Paul says that a woman COULD pray or prophesy during worship services as long as their heads were properly covered. See 1st cor. 14:31. So does this contradict what Paul wrote at 1st cor. 14:34? Most scholars understand these instructions at 1st cor. 14:34 to be given to WIVES, specifically, and not to all women. This is based on the word usages and the reference to husbands in the following verse 1st cor. 14:35. Taken in this way, many believe the command to "remain silent" to refer to general conversation among the congregation, perhaps while evaluating a prophecy together, as opposed to the prayer or prophesying allowed by Paul in chap 11. Additionally, Paul says at 1st cor 13:8 that gifts of prophecy will be done away with, perhaps, so too the custom back then for wives to "keep silent". (1st cor 11:16)

[@jaflenbond7854]

Truthful, kind, and loving persons will live and exist on earth forever under the loving rulership, guidance, and protection of the Christ because they love, honor, and obey the Creator as their loving, kind, and merciful God and Heavenly Father. All Atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of all religions and their anti-Christs Pastors and Leaders who all placed themselves under the authority, power, and control of Satan the Devil are free to do whatever they want and can live and exist on earth as long as they want.

[@moviefiend44]

This interpretation kinda makes more sense. In other words, the verses said that there shouldn't be side chatter (perhaps of the loud and audible kind) during the meetings. Paul wasn't saying that women should never speak at the meetings under any circumstances.

[@janburn007]

Praying & prophesying is slightly different to preaching/teaching/leading a congregation of Christian worshippers.

[@kimhaas7586]

There is some dispute as to whether Paul actually wrote some of the stuff you’re quoting. Some of Paul’s books have definitely been shown to not be written by him while others have passages tacked on so that social norms were reinforced. I’d check this out further in Dominic Crossan’s books on Paul.

[@jaflenbond7854]

All atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian religions rejected the God and Father of the Christ as worthless and useless, not worthy and deserving to be honored and obeyed as their loving, kind, and merciful God and Heavenly Father. All atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian religions who are mocking and degrading the Christ's TRUTHS and righteousness as worthless and useless will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths.

[@beckiejani7782]

Hey, thanks for the reference! There is so much ( not just supposedly from Paul) all over the Bible about what it REALLY means concerning gays.

[@MariaNunes-po5rc]

Paul lived in a different culture... Probably at that time was necessary to tell woman to be quiet Why.?? Probably they lived in a culture where woman impose more Rights Probably mixed with bad manners. I don't know just my opinion But the video shows a woman interrupting the man Which shows lock of good manners.... That had nothing to do if headship . But it work for mister Splain. Many people are very insecure To they need to feel they are in control of other people . In order to feel secure inside themselves.. Poor woman And Very poor Man too. They are not mature people Imature people are unhappy people.

[@rikmik3046]

Yes, constant interrupting when someone else is speaking can be annoying. But what watchtower take it to is misogyny. This is why I hated family worship. I always wanted my wife to take the lead but she never wanted because of headship. Glad I left now I don't deal with this anymore. Awful.

[@allykatz]

Oppression of women is rooted in Religion.

[@alomaalber6514]

good old Paul and "suffer not a woman to teach" funny thing the other guys that ate with JC were not like that and JC spent a bit of time with that woman at the well......Oh well!

[@jaflenbond7854]

All atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian religions rejected the God and Father of the Christ as worthless and useless, not worthy and deserving to be honored and obeyed as their loving, kind, and merciful God and Heavenly Father. All atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian religions who are mocking and degrading the Christ's TRUTHS and righteousness as worthless and useless will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths.

[@jackthomas6952]

So how are Women allowed to go from door to door if they aren’t supposed to speak??

[@CoolBreeze250]

That's not to be taken literally. What the apostle Paul meant was that women were not to take the lead in the congregation and/or give talks from the platform. You must understand that the women are actually the majority in the congregation and most likely responsible for bringing in the most members.

[@jackthomas6952]

@@CoolBreeze250 So how do you know what is and what’s not to be taken literally in the Bible? How could it not mean Women are not supposed to preach and teach when in Paul’s day there was no such thing as giving talks from a platform??

[@janburn007]

@@jackthomas6952 The Bible verses themselves make reference to women not speaking in "the congregation" which is clearly referring to actual church/worship services where a/the congregation is present, which would be referring to a teaching/preaching situation in the church congregation. What women may do outside of actual church/worship services, when the congregation is not present - is a different matter. So they could go door-knocking to spread the faith & conduct Bible studies, conduct family worship & Bible studies at home etc.

[@jackthomas6952]

@@janburn007 You really believe that when Paul wrote this passage that Women were able to speak freely outside of the congregation even though Women were seen as property and a “compliment” to men?? Further more do you actually believe that congregations met centuries ago they do today with a talk and comment format??

[@janburn007]

@@jackthomas6952 The Bible certainly indicates there were meetings of groups of believers back in those Biblical times & that the apostles often addressed such meetings & also wrote to such groups of believers. As far as I know, the Bible does not give specific instructions prohibiting women from speaking/teaching/preaching etc in settings which are outside of any congregational meetings of believers.

[@treasuretvjackson8018]

For 6:33 This doesn't mean that we aren't allowed to speak, my mom informed me that it was talking about how back then, people would be yelling for their husbands across the room because men and women were separated. They would gossip in the congregation, yell and ask their husbands a question since their husbands weren't close enough for them to whisper. Basically, All Christians, both men and women, weren't allowed to talk in church and at that time, women used to try it out and sometimes at loud volumes. All genders of Christians were required to be quiet in Church so that the congregation could hear the word clearly and focus on the preaching.

[@chris-julian5537]

Paul wrote those words at a time/place with very different societal norms than we have today. There are Christian religions with female clergy that read the same text.

[@elvenrights2428]

If JW women mustn't involve themselves in preaching, how they can be pioneers and have 70 hours of preaching done per month?

[@CoolBreeze250]

They can't preach from the pulpit in the congregation. Going door-to-door and street witnessing are different from giving talks from the pulpit.

[@kathynmic5132]

"Davidsplaning" - The mansplaning of JW

[@Starstuddedgarden]

This is disgusting. And I doubt that kids are going to be shooting these looks, over this.

[@JemyjoanBraidsBeauty]

The moment a jw gives birth to a girl, they already get worried about how she will find a husband regardless of their preaching about paradise. SMH.

[@lsmmoore1]

FYI, teachings like this would screw over men like my dad, who have ADHD and can't learn as easily, and may have to ask a lot of questions (sometimes repeatedly, over the course of multiple days) to get difficult-to-grasp concepts. If the woman has to shut up, then the man with ADHD is left behind because he can't even turn to his wife for help with these concepts. That or he has to keep secret about that - then embarrass himself by always being the one to repeatedly ask those questions in the congregation because Wifey can't ask on his behalf.

[@waiatamaitamehana9642]

WTH... this is so wrong. 1st, let me share from lived experience as a former JW and single mum of 4 who later married a then, exemplary pioneer. Jw beliefs endorse male privilege and power and reinforces the devaluing of women, mothers and children. The man I later married, belived in his God given privilege and rights over woman and children that he came busting into our family with a wielding iron rod, undoing all the work I had done with my children in the 10 years I had raised them on my own. A man who had never had children before decided my children were going to learn from his example and he was going to turn them into the right kind of Christians. It did not matter to him that he lacked personal knowledge of them or had a personal relationship w them. And I as the trying to be good Christian wife had to give over authority to him. He crushed us all. Our marriage did not last long and I ran away from him and JWs with all my children. They are adults now and have their own families. They speak of that time and remember him as a bully and abusive and me as a mum who became disempowered. They were glad I left him and JWs. JWs enable abuse of women and children through this teaching, like so many other patriarchal religions. Note, I remained a single mum, watched all my children marry good (non christian) men and woman and welcomed the arrival of all 11 of my grandchildren. I have no regrets running away and am proud of who they have become and who I have become without JW enculturation. Thank you Lloyd.

[@b.w.7588]

I believe that passage in the Bible about women not being allowed to speak in church was added by later scribes. In reference to David Schafer's homophobic talk/sermon, I'm guessing that Paul based his homophobic attitudes on the "BOOK OF LEVITICUS". Those authors, if you interpret the text literally, viewed sex between men as "detestable", then Paul goes on to tell the Roman Christians in his letter to them that there are men "leaving the natural use of women" after God "gives them over to shameful lust" to where they start having sex with each other. Likewise, the women "give up the natural use" of men and start having sex with whoever or whatever; the text never specifies who the women are having sex with exactly. Paul then says that the men were "punished by God for their error" over having engaged in such "obscene" behavior. Of course, homosexuality is natural. Homosexual relationships exist in nature, including in the non-human animal kingdom just as they do in the human kingdom. Paul was Jewish before joining Jesus' sect and encouraging Gentiles to join the faith and he would have based his views regarding homosexuality on the authors of the Old Testament books' beliefs regarding that particular subject, but if you interpret his writings literally, Paul claims that men who have sex with men are among those people who "will not inherit the kingdom of God" rather than prescribing the death penalty like the Levitical authors. Of course, I don't think that Paul's view of same-sex male relationships is any better than those of the Old Testament writers. Paul seems to define strict gender roles for men and women. Of course, his views on gender and sexuality, including homosexuality, were limited by the available information and the then-understandings about such subjects that were held by people in the society and culture of his own time period. Paul was also probably personally uncomfortable with homosexuality, so he probably used the religiously based prejudiced attitudes towards same-sex male couples that he was raised with according to the Judaism of his day to try and justify his homophobic beliefs which he was taught by the Jewish community to believe that his God also shared. He would have believed that men and women were equal in the religious sense, but probably not in a social sense. Women and men were viewed as essentially being of one gender, but women were basically considered to be inherently weaker. Paul, if you ask me, was simply wrong - if not mistaken and misguided - in regard to his views about gender and homosexuality, but then, he was probably wrong about lots of other things, too. I don't see how any self-respecting woman who is comfortable in her identity as a woman could be okay with submitting unquestioningly to the authority of men in matters pertaining to religion. I can't do that anymore and I will not. Of course, I am an atheist now and do not believe in the claims of any religion and I wish to think for myself. I have a mind and I can think and reason.

[@jaflenbond7854]

Truthful, kind, and loving persons will live and exist on earth forever under the loving rulership, guidance, and protection of the Christ because they love, honor, and obey the Creator as their loving, kind, and merciful God and Heavenly Father. All Atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of all religions and their anti-Christs Pastors and Leaders who all placed themselves under the authority, power, and control of Satan the Devil are free to do whatever they want and can live and exist on earth as long as they want.

[@b.w.7588]

@@jaflenbond7854 , Well, I don't know about kind, truthful and loving persons "living forever on earth" under the guidance and protection of Christ because they love, honor and obey a God whom they claim to be a "loving, kind and merciful" heavenly father. Yes, atheists, agnostics and followers of any religion, as well as their pastors and leaders (though I don't know about pastors and other religious leaders being "anti-Christs") can do what they want and can live however they want -- just as long as they aren't harming anyone else of course. I don't know about pastors and other religious leaders being anti-Christ, and I don't know about them living or existing for as long as they want though. We all die someday. I don't know about anyone placing themselves under the authority, power and control of "Satan the devil". Maybe people who believe in and worship a literal devil-like being do, but I don't believe in the devil, just like I don't believe in God. I have no reason to believe in such entities.

[@jaflenbond7854]

@@b.w.7588 Did you reject the Bible as just a worthless book of LIES, deceits, myths, fiction, fantasies, and fairy tales on your own? OR you were misled and deceived by the LIES and foolishness of Satan's ANTI-CHRISTS to reject the authority, TRUTHS, and righteousness of the Creator's CHRIST as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever in your life and existence?

[@s.f.6846]

"Thanks for clearing that up, David" :D

[@davidmay3042]

Romans 1,11 and Romans 161 Paul expressly contradicts himself praising the women in the congregations. I’m indebted to being made aware of this through Zuershers excellent book “Seeing through Christianity “ which does a comprehensive demolition job of the New Testament and should be required reading for all professed Christians. I can’t recommend this book enough which along with Lloyds recommendation “Unearthing the Bible “ puts the whole JW thing in stark perspective

[@presentmoment22]

Wait, he couldn’t keep up with the “new light” coming from the Society?! He needs to watch the Lloyd Evans channel 😊.

[@minimobilereview6570]

Its ironic that even in 2022 I am so so glad I wasn't born a female! I cant imagine how much of this rubbish they see everywhere in life not just in the witnesses org

[@morningglory9288]

That actress Irene who interrupts her husband while hes trying to take family worship, who does that? Showing courtesy is something we all should do regardless., Irene was down and out rude with her constant interruptions, she may think herself clever, but still wheres her manners?

[@seitisetsoh4991]

I understand your point, but Splain doesn't even address the common manners of interrupting someone. Instead he focuses on how wrong it is for her to even speak, even when giving "vital" information, such as new light (which would be considered life or death to a devout jw)

[@n0tgunshy]

It’s clearly not about manners, sadly. That would understandable. And let’s not forget that it’s done this way for dramatic effect. The point, here unfortunately, is that women are always second to men.

[@kevink2593]

Typical WT overkill to overprove their point.

[@alinaglover3753]

Clearly the "lesson" wasn't about being rude. It was about a woman speaking when it wasn't her "place". Disgraceful religion! Smh... I'm glad I'm not part of this cult anymore.

[@kelebekgul6199]

“She raised her children as a single mother and she did a great job. Then she married a loving brother.” Therefore Max isn’t the father of Irene’s children. Who the hell does he think he is then, to take over?! If their mother was good enough until she (re)married, what would make her inappropriate all of a sudden?! Especially when I clearly see they are not kids anymore, actually they are in their late teens, if not early 20s?

[@johnmulhern2833]

At the start I found her quite rude, interrupting someone to get her point across......whether it was her or him, it's rude to interrupt like that

[@janburn007]

"It is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the congregation" & the words preceding this - when interpreted by some other mainstream Christian denominations, usually only mean that a woman cannot teach or preach during a church service or some other type of official church congregational gathering. It does not mean that they cannot teach or lead during home worship/bible studies or when doing missionary type work or witnessing outside the home etc.

[@deezedayze8550]

So women shouldn’t answer or do Dems at the meetings????

[@thedrummersclub3667]

"Sobering" Tony Morris 🤣 I heard that.... 👍

[@joshuaserrato3495]

As a man I’m BEYOND disgusted by this.

[@vincentcross9148]

That was a great point about is that it’s in the Bible… the Bible is the root of all evil.

[@lama-chan]

oh my that sure did infuriate me

[@galaxiethinker183]

Hi I'm not sure if you've ever seen this in print where Watchtower claim that RUSSEL WAS GODS PROPHET October 1st 1919 watchtower page 297

[@ever7672]

Why do they talk so slow and pronounce every vowel and consonant? Does anyone else notice this?

[@jackspratt2222]

Belle, it's about time you got your head out of those books (tossing book into the mud) and paid attention to more important things. . . like me! The whole town's talking about it. It's not right for a woman to read-soon she starts getting ideas. . . and thinking

[@KaliqueClawthorne]

The only difference .... Gaston was at least meant to be attractive. Oh - and that it was a fairytale

[@Jezzebel1313]

Why...just why are all these JW dudes looking so creepy?

[@josecarlosrodriguez9876]

Isn't it ironic that"sobering" is a Tony Morris coin phrase? 😆

[@agevenisse3252]

Anthony Morris had a sobering thought lol. Did he run out of Macallan whiskey?

[@kimhaas7586]

I’m not sure Jehovah has not changed. Has anyone asked her lately?

[@jaflenbond7854]

All atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian religions rejected the God and Father of the Christ as worthless and useless, not worthy and deserving to be honored and obeyed as their loving, kind, and merciful God and Heavenly Father. All atheists, agnostics, and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian religions who are mocking and degrading the Christ's TRUTHS and righteousness as worthless and useless will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths.

[@carlosibanez2793]

Eve and Adam?

[@kamion53]

I sort of like Rabbi Friedman's interpretation in which Eve realised that their perfect creation in God's image was not ment to be loitered about in a perfect place, but ment to bring perfection in an inperfect world, so she took the apple. And men have been moping around since then for been prohibited to lazyback in paradise for all eternity.

[@paulbinns9375]

Poor man in the video. His pride looks so hurt. “Just wait ‘till I get back at her later”, he’s muttering.

[@cerberaodollam]

The notion that I have a "natural use" (as if I was an object)... Gross.

[@DeeDubb247]

SO GROSS 🤢 this gave me the ick on a visceral level!

[@keirlafon7392]

Thus spake Jehovah, "An uppity woman brings shame upon her head and should be introduced to the back of thy hand". (Morons chapter 5 verse 3)

[@ZackBurnsOG]

I wish that any of those times I walked in as the only male when I was 14 I had instead of running the bible study, or service meeting, gone "this is stupid. why am I up here when any of you are more qualified?" And not taken over. I hated doing it, too. I always felt like an imposter and so stupid standing up there directing things when everone else in the room had been baptized for decades longer than I'd been alive, but I was a guy and had gotten baptized less than a year before, so I was in charge.

[@Nimbus-fq7ub]

Perhaps you could do a Jesus says Vs Paul says episode.... Trust me, I found 16 of them. But there are plenty of contradictions regards to Jesus Vs Paul

[@Scott-iu2jx]

Where do those single women go when they have a question Be they widows or single by choice?

[@marshamacmillan]

....I have no words

[@thebestevernurseshow9427]

Hello! Former JW, liberal Christian here. I believe in God, and still find this viewpoint about women repulsive. I believe the Bible is inspired of God, but not penned by God. Therefore, many things in the Bible are stories, metaphors, poems, works of art, ways for people to express there feelings about God, etc. It was also penned by imperfect people and therefore imperfect. I also believe the Bible is often taken out of context. An example would be homosexuality; biblical authors knew this often involved younger boys and was a way for older men to disgustingly show their dominance. Point is, you can be a Christian and not take every word in the Bible literally. If I really cannot find an explanation for something such as this, I usually chalk it up to those human authors being imperfect while penning the Bible or we are being imperfect in our understanding of why that thing is in the Bible. Either way, I am not going to strictly follow the advice of such passages just because they are in the Bible. It has to still seem morally right for me to follow that advice. Whoever and whenever we were wrong, I think God understands and forgives us for our imperfections. Jesus covers our sins! I don’t know if that made any sense but I just wanted to put my viewpoint out there since most ex JWs are not Christian.

[@TheRealMGT]

Oh my f*ing god! 🤮🤮🤮

[@elvenrights2428]

These JW teaching about how women mustn't teach others stem from ungodly bible verses of 1. Timothy 2:11-12: Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent. Similar verses in 1. Corinthian 14:33-35. I doubt whether it is god's word. It is Paul's word, not God's word.

[@treasuretvjackson8018]

The video they show really wasn't that bad, sure it's a bit rude to cut someone off, but everything the wife did was really calm. She never insulted her husband simply because he was a man. He never insulted her simply because she cut him off. They were both just chill about it. Her correcting him would even be better for the watchtower. I was like: "What are they going to find that's truly wrong with this?" "Is he abused?" "Scared of her? Etc?" "They seem to have a good marriage with respectful step-kids." The way they handled the conversation was the model ideal for marriages. Just calmness and understanding. Sure, she cut him off and wouldn't let him finish, but they both handled it so well that there really shouldn't be any issues for the kids in future marriages.

[@treasuretvjackson8018]

They're fine, there shouldn't be any issues for the son since it teaches him to be a chill husband and the daughter's to be a chill wife that isn't domineering. Again, they both had their flaws but they were so nice to each other. It wasn't really a big problem what the mother did.

[@aksah6102]

Updated understanding of the watchtower! Lol..JW's tell on themselves! God doesn't change

[@gbunting7905]

Mr David Strain could do with a new head

[@leetrippii1830]

Very misogynistic organization

[@johnw5584]

Why doesn't the " man" just wear a dress as he does the dishes? 3 kids, they should do the dishes.

[@megan148]

Her “new role” and the lesser…

[@vincentcross9148]

Did he just say here’s the set up likes he’s introducing a video on snl??

[@maruchanconqueso23]

😬😬😬

[@brownknightr2208]

A man raising another man's seed,big mistake

[@melissameinz4439]

Another "updated understanding" in the recent Watchtower. How many updated understandings are they up to now? If the Watchtower information is really coming from God, why all the updates?

[@nothanksimdead9393]

What if the daughter doesn't wan't to be a wife? That's an option. I hated the idea of headship so much I just stayed single until I left.