Drawabox Lesson 1, Exercise 4: Tables of Ellipses

[@jamesbond-ku2dq]

I love to see that he also makes mistakes, it remembers me that I don't need to do things perfectly instead I have to do things the best I currently can

[@brianm3160]

Yes!

[@draw9768]

best thing about these new videos.

[@niphanif]

😂

[@MrJBARRON]

I decided to take up learning to draw, and hopefully paint, for the first time in 5 decades. What a resource this is.

[@Uncomfortable]

It's always great to see people pick up art later on. To take the plunge is the first step into a whole new world of engaging possibilities. While I still wouldn't consider you especially old, looking at my own parents I often worry about how they'll keep themselves engaged and alert as they roll into retirement. Hobbies are *incredibly* important. They keep our brains sharp and give us a sense of purpose when, for many people, their career and families are the biggest driving forces. But perhaps I'm overstepping and making way too many assumptions based on far too little information :P

[@MrJBARRON]

@@Uncomfortable I completely agree with you. I'm still in the middle of raising my family and running a construction company as my career, but I've always dreamed of being able to paint and draw at least to a decent level of proficiency. I'm working really hard now to pick it up and some day actually have a portfolio. Anyway, thank you so much for the course. You're a gifted teacher.

[@cavemann_]

I really love how you put the little Uncomfortable in the corner, and even go as far as to give him many expressions. This makes watching your exercise videos a lot more fun.

[@Uncomfortable]

I'm glad to hear that they add value to the videos. They certainly increase the time it takes to edit our videos, but we've always felt they were worth it.

[@kenkaneki9214]

These piss me off to no end

[@pawtcha]

yeah, they're so difficult. my circles are looking egg shaped 😭

[@hell_uzer4547]

so here's something that I realised works for me....when doing the ghosting method ghost only twice before making the mark(this helps to concentrate while ghosting and not mindlessly ghost over and over)...also try to match the pace at which u ghost and the pace at which u make the mark(in this case: draw the ellipse)....but I'm still a beginner and if there's anything wrong with this approach do correct me 😄

[@josephhelms5867]

Just joined this group. Never drawn before. Love the basics.

[@deigonx7011]

Yooo this exercise is... HARD! Ma lord 🔥😵

[@laralepo1071]

These demonstrations are so helpful thank you :D

[@Palindrome3945]

Thank you. i'm a beginner willing to learn, and tried to train on basic technical stuff. My pages of mindless ellipses were meaningless, because I dont have the knowledge to indentify what's actually important here, dimensions and intent beforehand. Plus it's a very zen and calming thing to do.

[@Glothor_]

This is secretly the best lesson hidden within an ellipses exercise. Getting into that headspace/flow is key.

[@ReblazeGaming]

Attempting this lesson for the first time today, hopefully it goes well. It's nice that since these exercises are kind of straightforward, I can just have something playing in the background.

[@Sheikplays]

This one was really (really) hard to me. I felt that I kept messing up so much that I almost ignored the recomendation of not griding; I was tempet t ore-doing this one. Yet, I didn't. I kept following the course. Eventually I'll get to do some good elipses.

[@caswavala9624]

How's the progress bro

[@Sheikplays]

@@caswavala9624 not gonna lie, I dropped. I'm searching for another method, tho Gotta keep trying

[@EsperaVisuals]

I definitely need to practice Ellipses much more. If I don't think about it it turns out in good shape, but with ghosting and repeating the Ellipse I somehow start to overcompensate with automatic course correction

[@MrRodrigongo]

I still have a few issues while drawing from my shoulder, mostly because I'm still not sure if I should rest my hand on the paper or if I should keep it on the air. The first way relaxes a lot more the shoulder, the other one is a lot more stressful for the muscles. Will any of these ways, in the long term, help when doing other things? For example I've seen painters with oils on the canvas, well, they have their hands floating, so if I want to do something like that in the future, probably it would help to start practising from now on, is that correct?

[@Uncomfortable]

I address this issue here: drawabox.com/lesson/1/2/hoverhand . The short of it is that while working through this course, it's entirely fine to rest your hand gently on the page, as long as you're mindful of it and consciously watching out for the tendency to switch back to drawing from your wrist. As for whether you should practice having your hand floating *now*, the same point I mention here in regards to why one should rotate the page (here: drawabox.com/lesson/1/9/betteruse ). Basically, we are focusing on developing a specific set of skills and specific understanding - don't pile more challenges on top, otherwise you'll distract yourself from what you should be focusing on (based on the instructions).

[@ivanokino2719]

I've been trying to draw a smooth ellipse on a graphics tablet for half an hour now, it's a lot of fun.

[@waffleson45]

I'm on a screen tablet it is very difficult 😅 I was getting way to wobbly lines then tried this quickly in my sketchbook with a pencil and wow was it kinda like his, so he's right on the fine liner and paper part, not having a fine liner or desk I just turned on stabilizer I hope that doesn't stunt my growth in this course.

[@waffleson45]

Update:been doing this for 2 months straight and I do have a desk and paper and fineliners now finished lesson 1 had to go back and redo the ones I did digitally, and my art has definitely improved a ton since! I also started drawing 6 straight hours a day every single day and it has helped! If I can do it anyone else can DON'T GIVE UP I BELIEVE IN YOU! In the comments of the first video of lesson 1 I'll make a comment keeping updates periodically!

[@shinwakabayashi609]

Does it matter which direction you draw the ellipses? Before watching this video, I would draw them clockwise as a right-handed person as opposed to what's demonstrated in the video. Thank you

[@Uncomfortable]

The direction doesn't matter so much - in this case, focus on what feels most comfortable and natural to you while drawing using your whole arm. For me, drawing them clockwise is a little uncomfortable, but if it's comfortable for you then that's fine.

[@shinwakabayashi609]

Great to know. Thank you very much

[@alitabaker99]

Enjoyed this lesson!

[@sulynncho9299]

- Use the shoulder, not wrist (this is a mistake I often make) - Make sure that the ellipses are snug - Draw twice - There's a beat that you take in between ghosting and when you actually draw the ellipse

[@notafan1275]

Hello, so far I have done my best to follow your instructions to the letter. But I believe that the table of ellipses should come after a sheet of confident ellipses anywhere on the paper. I completely understand your reasoning about the table giving feedback about placement of the ellipses, but that's two things at once: Drawing an ellipse that looks like an ellipse, and drawing it where I want it to be. I can do one or the other (well, actually I can't do either, but the shapes on the blank sheet of paper vaguely look like ellipses, whereas the table is filled with shapes that hardly qualify as pebbles).

[@Uncomfortable]

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts - although when it comes to deciding on which ways we adjust the way in which our course is organized, we rely most of all on the statistical data we get from looking at students' homework, in terms of identifying where they run into certain pain points that impede their progress. This allows us to follow patterns rather than being pulled in many different directions by individual anecdotes or experiences. Generally speaking we haven't actually seen the tables of ellipses as raising any red flags - that isn't to say that students don't run into issues at first jumping straight into the tables of ellipses, but that it is something they consistently overcome to a point that is satisfactory for continuing forward. So to that end, it wouldn't necessarily be worth the potential impacts of adding another exercise and expanding the length of the lesson as well as the workload both of the students and the TAs providing the critique.

[@notafan1275]

@@Uncomfortable Of course you are right - I had completely forgotten about the whole mandatory homework which somebody needs to critique side of things!

[@MemebreadDairyboo]

This is a lot harder than it seems :/

[@maria-zm4bo]

yup! this is my first frustration on this course. but it's ok, we'll get there

[@star3396]

same 😭 but the 50% rule and that healthy mindset he continuously reminds us of is extremely helpful at pushing me to still draw 😊

[@ShrtStfflp]

ya just update the video after I finish the first page of the table of ellipses homework. You and your free, helpful content and insight! how dare you?! :p Thanks for all the hard work you put in

[@thourawc9156]

Hey! I wanted to share sth. Don't know if it's helpful. I'm past the table of ellipses and have been doing the funnel exercise instead. Today, because I haven't practiced for a week I thought, why not do the table of ellipses again. I noticed that having the ellipses stacked in rows inflenced/distracted me, as if they were kind of pushing down on the row I wanted to draw the new ellipses in. So I tried leaving a free row and it's helped. As said before I only noticed this after coming back from funnels where there's nothing else in the immediate vicinity. Not certified advice, only my experience xD

[@NotAppIicabIe]

Is it normal to be very limited in movement when it comes to smaller ellipses? Like the smaller I go the harder it is to draw smaller with my shoulder and the ends get really pointy..

[@Uncomfortable]

Students have a tendency to fall back to drawing from their wrists when their ellipses get small, which can contribute to irregularities in the shapes they're drawing. Drawing the ellipses from your shoulder is obviously awkward and uncomfortable for people who aren't used to it, but it is what you should be striving for - even though it is difficult at first.

[@coltennial9513]

It just takes time, I'm at lesson 6 now and I can draw ellipses really small from my shoulder even though I had the same issue as you before.

[@TML233]

This is way harder than it looks! I quickly got impatient after failing a few times. How can I get over this? :(

[@TML233]

And even worse, my wrist and fingers sometimes moves by themselves when ghosting and drawing the ellipses. I can’t always control them to stay still.

[@TheFlamingdragon2]

You should learn some relaxation and breathing techniques when you're getting impatient. Sometimes, you just need to get a breath of air before getting back into it. As for the wrist and fingers, I don't understand but you do need to use your shoulder when drawing ellipses. If you're making wobbly lines, it's best to raise your shoulder up to meet the level of the notebook you're drawing on (if you are drawing on one) because an uneven level in terms of your hand and the canvas you're working on can lead to wobbly lines.

[@nagasaravanan8804]

while drawing over the ellipse for two more times I end up making it more hairy than fine one is it okay? and I'm feeling like making fast strokes (even while ghosting) but when I try to slow down my strokes becoming wobbly that's what I'm most concerned about. It feels like rushing sometimes.

[@Uncomfortable]

Drawing around the ellipse multiple times does indeed make it hairier, but that is something that will improve with practice, and with use of the ghosting method. It also helps to limit yourself to just going around two full times.

[@LingatsuDesignAndDev]

At 5:20 you draw all the ellipses of this cell in the same position. Is it allowed to rotate the page if it's difficult for me to draw the last ellipse of this cell for example ? Or should I draw all the ellipses of a cell in the same position ? I have spiral-bound notebook and it's a bit difficult to draw when I'm at the edge of a page.

[@Uncomfortable]

You should feel free to rotate the page as needed, as I do throughout this video. I did that row at a single rotation because I first found an angle that would work for the orientation of the given ellipses I was drawing, then I stuck to it. But if you need to adjust for whatever reason, you should feel free to do so.

[@LingatsuDesignAndDev]

@@Uncomfortable I see, thanks !

[@tepuyica6022]

I've never thought that I'd fail so much at drawing a circle HAHA

[@not_ryuka]

it's over

[@paranshizaveri2003]

ur chibi avatar is too cute

[@inferno6012]

ghosting ellipses are hard.

[@KingTubeAR]

TRUUEEE

[@maogya]

Yeah

[@Elec.Balloon]

Everytime I get halfway through the motion, my elbow takes over. I hate it.

[@YoneKenway]

Can I line the table without a ruler? I mean I use my shoulders to make a straight line..

[@Uncomfortable]

It's important to allow exercises to focus on the area they're designed to address. Using an exercise intended for practicing ellipses to also practice your freehanded lines means you're going to be splitting your cognitive resources between two different things, and therefore get half as much out of it. So that's not something I would recommend.

[@YoneKenway]

@@Uncomfortable Thank you ! I will remember it!!

[@vorefield7079]

Is it better to draw the ellipses in a counter clockwise motion or is it down to personal preference (im drawing right handed)?

[@Uncomfortable]

Draw your ellipses in the direction that feels most comfortable to you, while executing them from your shoulder using the ghosting method.

[@blubber0_0]

Wow I suffered on this one compared to the others. Absolutely abysmal. Well, practice makes nearly perfect...

[@TaeduinLover]

Ok, here we go

[@tashmoo]

i gotta little question to ask hopefully it wasnt mentioned before cuz ive watched it 2 times ; is it important to draw clockwise or counter clockwise, cuz instictively i draw on the opposite direction of yours

[@Uncomfortable]

Whichever direction you're most comfortable with is fine. Generally in cases where I don't address something, it's because it doesn't matter one way or the other - but of course, no harm in asking to confirm.

[@tashmoo]

@@Uncomfortable thanks for fast reply

[@dusunce.v8009]

I know you draw them with your shoulder, but I'm wondering, does your hand touch the paper or in the air when you draw the ellipses?

[@Uncomfortable]

Sometimes. Perhaps more than sometimes. But it's not something you should be worried about doing yourself, as explained here: drawabox.com/lesson/1/2/hoverhand

[@ernestos7615]

Can one listen to music while performing homework exercises?

[@Uncomfortable]

It depends heavily on the individual, and the type of music. A good rule of thumb is, if you find yourself distracted by the music, then it's best to work without it. For some people, music with vocals can be distracting, but instrumental music without them is fine. For others, music can actually *help* them focus. So it really comes down to how you specifically are impacted by it - and of course, even genre of music can be a factor. Sometimes the music you like best isn't a good choice for the very reason you enjoy it so much, but less interesting stuff can serve as background noise to push out other distractions.

[@Catastrophe699]

Aight noiceee!

[@charleouel9012]

4:00 I can see that tho to be fair the plan was already pretty long to so I can only imagine elipses are long to make too tho may be I was just slow for the plan not going to lie I was doing like 8 ghosting before comiting to the lines :D if not 10 at frist...

[@ovschinikov]

I am trying to find the type/name of the ruler that you use, thank you.

[@Uncomfortable]

I believe it is a "Westcott 8ths 12-Inch Beveled Transparent Ruler", though I bought it ages ago so I'm not completely sure.

[@ovschinikov]

@@Uncomfortable thank you, now at least i have a reference to use when searching.

[@landgemark]

What's the point of filling in the space with circles? I thought the point of this exercise is to understand ellipses by making them all the same in the box and not making random circles

[@Uncomfortable]

It's just extra mileage. If at the end, you've got a bunch of little gaps that *could* be filled in with a little extra, more general practice, then why wouldn't you?

[@landgemark]

@@Uncomfortable Thanks for the reply. Do you have any advice for someone that's struggling with this exercise? So far it's felt more like a drawing circles practices and I have a lot of trouble making the circle look smooth. I feel like unlike with the previous exercise I could use my eyes to guide the lines but since circles have no starting or end point my lines are all very inconsistent. Is it fine to continue on if it's something that'll improve with practice/body memory or am I looking at this the wrong way?

[@Uncomfortable]

@@landgemark So there's a red flag when you say that you managed with the straight lines by using your eyes to guide your line - this approach is incorrect. Steering it with your eyes suggests that you're *not* drawing confidently, and not relying on your muscle memory to execute a smooth, consistent stroke. It suggests that you're prioritizing accuracy over flow, which is also the reason you'd be having trouble with maintaining smoothness for your ellipses. You may want to go back and rewatch the videos on the Principles of Markmaking and the Ghosted Lines Exercise, as both of these stress the importance of executing with confidence and prioritizing flow, before ever thinking about accuracy.

[@landgemark]

@@Uncomfortable I do remember the videos saying not to use your eyes. So I tried the ellipse exercises again today trying to focus on remembering the motion of my arm and following it through without looking at anything specific. Sometimes I think I'm getting the feel of it but it's still hard to be consistent. Half of them still look like paper clips. This is a really challenging exercises though, my arm and hand feels like it's just gone through an intense workout

[@jasweb147]

@@landgemark Pro tips: 1) Loosen the grip on your pencil/pen. 2) Hold your pencil or pen higher up on the barrel (keep a lighter grip) 3) Try keeping your hand off the paper while sketching or drawing. Remaining loose is the key. 4) Relax and continue to practice. It's not a chore, you should have a sense of enjoyment while mark making. I just started these exercises a few months ago. I have zero drawing experience and I'm just starting out at age 46. Hang in there.

[@fradlas9494]

is it just me or are circles significantly more difficult than ellipses

[@Uncomfortable]

Circles are ellipses (in the sense that squares are rectangles), but you are correct - as our ellipses get wider, they get more difficult because they rely more and more on drawing from our whole arm, and when we fall back to drawing from the elbow or the wrist, they end up getting quite erratic and uneven.

[@DallasUzumaki]

I am a left handed person...how can that affect the learning process?

[@Uncomfortable]

It shouldn't really make much of a difference, aside from which angle ends up being most comfortable for you to execute your marks in (in terms of rotating the page as explained for the ghosted lines exercise).

[@AnotherCamilo]

For some reason, my hand starts to shake when i'm ghosting the lines. And i feel that being left handed makes everything a bit harder.

[@jonuhh_]

No, it's not

[@thenaysays]

from the page that comes with this lesson. here: drawabox.com/lesson/1/11/step1 "When you try to hit your ellipse in a single round, it's usually going to come out uneven and wobbly (due to drawing too slowly and carefully) or extremely loose (due to simply not having built up the muscle memory to nail an ellipse). Drawing through your ellipses gives your arm the chance to familiarize itself with what's being asked of it in that first pass, and then firm it up in the second. Along with giving you an extra chance to build up the muscle memory, it also helps you maintain the confidence needed to achieve a smooth, even shape, without totally losing control." do not stray away from the lessons, remember to read/listen to the pages, and follow the instructions by the letter. you will gain more confidence as you do the assignment. take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, but your hands shaking sounds like either hesitance or lack of confidence or something else because what you've stated lacks info. I am left-handed myself and have had no problems with the course so far. treat this exercise like every other before it, do it to the best of your ability, and make the ellipses as confidently as you can.

[@jasweb147]

@@thenaysays I too am a lefty. No issues here with hand shaking. Hang in there.

[@liv5489]

when i draw narrow ellipse, it turns pointy in the end kinda like a mango ;;

[@Uncomfortable]

That's a common problem! Just keep pushing to execute those ellipses from your shoulder, and to do so confidently so you can maintain a more even shape. Of course, the *really* narrow ellipses will just naturally be pointy by nature, but sometimes students will end up accidentally making other ellipses pointy due to hesitation, or drawing from their wrist or elbow.

[@liv5489]

@@Uncomfortable thanks! thats a relief to know its common. i think its also partly due to how stiff i hold my pen ;; gonna watch your other vid again

[@danielthechampionoftheworl8490]

You don't have to learn to represent 3D objects in 2D space - you already only see in 2D. Your mind creates the illusion of 3D. All you need to do is recognise that your mind is doing that, how it is doing that, and then don't allow it to do that. Then just draw what you actually see - whether that is in your mind or in front of you. In fact, you don't see objects at all - all you see is light. Your mind turns that light into objects via the concepts that you unconsciously embed in your mind. Bypass the conceptual layer and then you can draw just fine. No need for all of this convoluted craziness.

[@stolfoch.]

yay

[@debaditya66]

i think i am really good with drawing the elipse with the wrist(from practise)....while i suck completely with elbow ...should i stick to drawing with wrist or is it bad practise and i should learn to use the elbow???

[@Uncomfortable]

You should be drawing your ellipses using your whole arm, from the shoulder, when doing this course. Not from your wrist or your elbow. Also, be sure to use the ghosting method as discussed in an earlier part of Lesson 1.

[@shallowwater]

The increasingly frustrated avatar just gives me life.

[@unpotat7672]

Honestly I wish I could do this course but it feels like this is the end-point for me, I just don't get how to draw a circle/ellipse, no matter how much I try I just can't draw them with any sort of accuracy at all, just staying inside the boxes is a struggle let alone having it look like a circle :'). I think I'm genuinely just not an art person

[@knightflare4595]

You made it so far mann dont give up noww

[@TheTourist0100]

Our starting work isn't meant to be perfect. Circles are *hard* to draw well. Remember that early in this course accuracy isn't a priority, and will improve over time. We might not be born with an eye for art or have some magical talent at it, but if we stick with it and keep striving to learn we *will* become skilled artists. And even if we don't become a master, there is so much to gain from learning to draw. Patience, diligence and endurance are what immediately come to mind. We're not wasting our time trying to learn, and we shouldn't label ourselves as an art people or not. We all have the ability to create art and there is something to admire about striving to improve at what we're passionate about. I guess what I'm saying is don't give up. Even if you have to drop the course, keep trying. Keep drawing. Don't push yourself and take as much time as you need but don't stop. You can do it, I know you can.

[@maria-zm4bo]

no one's born knowing how to draw these. there isn't something like an "art person". you have to try, do the exercises, get their feedback and improve. we are all struggling a lot with this one, it's okay.

[@densort27]

hope you start it again someday

[@Ladyoftheroundtable]

Why does your avatar look so upset about fast forwarding?

[@saucymind]

my eclipses are ugly 😶

[@RandomPerson123321]

Wow I'm terrible lol

[@MySelfMyCeliumMyCell]

I mean its okay to make mistakes and stuff... but i'd guess you'd have a tad more precision after so many years as you constantly boast in your guide.

[@Uncomfortable]

I don't practice nearly as much as I should, largely because of the time running Drawabox demands. Where I used to spend more of my time doing my own illustrations and pursuing my career in concept art, as Drawabox grew, it inevitably demanded more of my time. At this point, teaching is my full-time gig, and so everything else has to inevitably take a back seat. Fortunately, over the years it's resulted in strengthening my understanding of the concepts that I explain, and that is ultimately what my students benefit from.

[@MySelfMyCeliumMyCell]

@@Uncomfortable Thank you for such a calm response... I was venting shit at the wrong person, was in such a terrible mood, i kinda regret writing what i did,, but nevertheless i thank you for the answer

[@Uncomfortable]

@@MySelfMyCeliumMyCell Your comment didn't actually come off that badly, to be honest. No need to worry about it.

[@BananaDope]

@@MySelfMyCeliumMyCell Is that your real name?