Can a SOFTER TIP Put MORE SPIN on the Ball? -- MYTHBUSTING Answers

[@DrDaveBilliards]

*Content:* 0:00 - Intro 0:45 - “Hit” Differences 1:59 - Energy Transfer 3:13 - Sidespin Persistence 3:59 - Drag Effects 5:27 - Cue Elevation Effects 7:05 - CB Deflection 8:06 - Max Spin at Fast Speed 11:14 - Max Spin at Slow Speed 13:01 - Wrap Up *Supporting Resources:* - shaft/tip info: Predator Revo with Victory Soft, Cuetec Cynergy with a medium-hardness Tiger Sniper, Predator BK Rush with a phenolic-like BK Hybrid - “Cue Tip Contact Myth-Busting Truths in Super Slow Motion” video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqjEqql-bt9kns0 - "POWER DRAW and Large-Curve Massé with a BREAK CUE Phenolic Tip!!!" video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIvGi5-Ag7xof6M - "A Fun CHALLENGE DRILL to Test Your DRAW QUALITY … and SOFT VS. HARD TIP Comparison" video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/imnZhYRpiax9otE - cue tip hardness effects resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ - cue/tip hit/feel resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ - cue hit efficiency: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/ - “CUE BALL CONTROL ... Everything You Need to Know” video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIG0dnWul6esepY - drag shot resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/drag/ - aiming with sidespin resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/ - squirt and swerve effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/effects/ - System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/ - “Swoop Stroke Experiment - Can swooping create extra spin on the cue ball?” video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gICrlphqr5iUmKM - miscue limit resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/maximum/ - Top 100 Myths of Pool: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/ *Subscribe to Dr. Dave's KZbin Channel:* kzbin.info

[@williammcdowell3718]

Dr. Dave, I think this opens another discussion. Do layered tips provide more spin.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@williammcdowell3718 No.

[@bennylloyd-willner9667]

To be able to share so much knowledge as calmly and clearly as Dr. Dave is a true gift not many possess! Brilliant video - again!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you!

[@ulrichhermes1315]

Your channel is pure gold, greetings from Germany!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you. Greetings from the US!

[@tomm9178]

Being a ACUI Nationals competitor (from region 8) in the 70's I was always self taught, albeit with some help from a few books and the "advice" of others. I hung up the cue for 45+ years until I retired and have come back with a vengeance now that I've been able to get some sound advice from you and others on KZbin. Thanks so much for what you have done. I think you provide the best and most comprehensive instructional material available anywhere. I also enjoy Neils Feijen's and Sharivari's channels. The former has such a positive and infectious attitude as well as the best drills going and the later because it's been fun watching him develop as a player over the years. But on to this video. I have one suggestion you might consider. In your scientific approach rather than relying solely on the subjective feel of the player (yourself in the test you perform here) in the execution of speed of stroke and in a lesser degree to the point of contact on the cue ball, elevation of the shaft, etc. why not try and collaborate with your former colleagues at the university, and design the equivalent of an "Iron Byron" for the game of billiards that could be placed on the table with all sorts of adjustable settings for que speed, elevation, cue ball placement (for different English strokes), etc. that would consistently repeat the perfect stroke (just like Lord Byron was said to have). Maybe all that is too daunting ( it's always good to dream big,🙂), but at least something to hone in on the stroke speed factor. Even the best pro's don't always get it right.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Many cue testing robots have been developed over the years. They rarely give results as good as what is possible with careful testing with actual human shooters. For the reasons why, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

[@tomm9178]

@@DrDaveBilliards Thx Doc. You're the best . Keep up the good, no the great, work!

[@valentenicoletti3622]

Really a wonderful job mr DrDave ! I really love your Passion for Pool

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks!

[@bennylloyd-willner9667]

I fully accept your findings. I did think spin was easier to achieve when I went for a soft tip, but now I think it's just the personal feel you get and for me, a soft tip suited my style very well. I miss pool playing very much, I just haven't been able to make it fit with the rest of my life, but my situation has changed and hopefully, I will be able to set up a table in a new room we're about to build. These videos sure get my pool heart ticking faster again 👍

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you for being open-minded. That is rare to find these days.

[@bw4593]

The only thing that reliably puts more spin on the cue ball is a good consistent stroke/cue ball hit!!!! Smaller tip diameter can def get you farther to the edge of the cue ball. But I’d say if anything a firmer tip will absorb less energy, but the most important factor for any human player is consistently hitting the cue ball where you want to hit it!!

[@k3ithf00ng]

My phone almost caught fire watching this video with the amount of roasts Dr Dave made. Amazing video

[@ScottsPoolSchool]

Great video, have been telling people this for years when teaching or discussing the game, all based on early learnings from the many books I read as well as excellent information on your website. Some people still don't believe it... :) Pick the tip that feels and sounds the best to you, provides the best feedback, gives the closest hit sound / feel to what you are mentally expecting based on your stroke.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good advice.

[@frederiquerijsdijk]

Lovely video's, as always. So much time and dedication (and science!). Keep it up.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. I aim to swerve. :)

[@jasonnieuwenhuis335]

Wow that’s really unexpected and interesting. Thank you for your swervice.

[@tomburns890]

Good video. I agree with spin off a rail is no better with a soft or hard or medium tip. Everyone does know that the harder the tip the more prone to miss cue. Now for straight cue ball to object ball draw shots have you done a comparison on that? Again the harder the cue the more prone to miss cue than soft tip and because a soft tip sticks on the cue longer it’s easier to put more draw on the ball with less miscues. Have you done a video of straight draw shots (not cue ball spin off the tail like this video) comparison between these 3 cues? Thanks

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I have tested draw also. See everything here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@kyaneslace3595]

I miss cue less often with my break cue (I use it for shooting) but I also use it alot more

[@fixitrod4969]

The doctor has spoken! This will be a million view video! Nice job as usual! I have had softer tips be worse at draw, which showed the amount of time a softer tip touches the ball doesn't matter enough to change things. I think I'll be changing to medium or hard tips to save a few bucks. Thanks, Dr. Dave!!!!!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you, and you're welcome.

[@gingerwizard69]

I always love watching your videos. When it comes to hitting the ball with different shafts/tips etc... I find it, for your study sakes, that you need a machine that can do the stroke... to many varibles to be sure that the hit is consistent

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I designed the tests at the end of the video so stroke consistency doesn't matter. If you push the miscue limit and take enough attempts, you will eventually get maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad a player you are. Testing machine results are not always very good. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

[@kurtkensson2059]

You definitely did a good job of explaining the variables, and what you did to try and control them.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. I doubt the Disbelievers will agree, but I tried.

[@kurtkensson2059]

@@DrDaveBilliards You've done the research, set up your experiments carefully, controlled the variables reasonably well, noted the results, and presented the evidence. Your conclusion(s) seem valid to me, ha ha. But I'm no Doctor! Some of it does seem counter-intuitive, so maybe a little disbelief should be expected. It _has_ changed some of my opinions.

[@chriscooper1686]

That is a great video.. I enjoyed the other one with the slow mo videos. But the logic is sound and almost identical to what I have been telling people for years. I went through a period were I tried about 20 or 25 tips. Just because I was ultra curious. Thank you for all you do. All the information you put out there is helpful.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad you liked it. I hope it helps you convince your friends you've been right all these years.

[@adamadler7041]

The information was good... I will still continue to shoot with my defy shaft with a kamui clear black soft, it works for my game.

[@BROU-bb2uc]

I found a tip just as good as Kamui. Morikami and cheaper.

[@warrenwatkins9650]

Three day ago I just put on a cheap $2 med. tip on my Lucasi cue following your excellent video on installing a tip. Yesterday when hitting the que ball with a little backspin, the que ball wanted to jump up off the table, a little adjustment in my stroke solved that. My other que has a soft tip and I can't tell any difference between the two in the way they play. I've been wondering if these $25 cue tips are worth the money or is it just hype. The biggest improvement comes from practice and trying to shoot at anything that looks remotely possible to make. Sometimes I run the rack, but mostly 4 to 6 ball runs. Thanks for all your videos, they're awesome.

[@pedrom1619]

Hi Dr. Dave I think the best way to sum it up is the same spin can be imparted into the CB regardeless of the tip's hardness! Yet the effort (consistency) needed with a softer tip tends to be smaller!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Actually, slight more effort (cue speed) is required with a softer tip due to the slightly less hit efficiency (energy transfer). See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@qwaszx2 Agreed. For a given tip contact point, more speed gives more spin (they increase by the same proportion). See my follow-up videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ You can deal with this by making sure the CB travel distance (and therefore speed) is the same for every shot in any comparison.

[@gtrmusic69]

Good and interesting video. Thanks for all your work.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad you liked it. You're welcome.

[@brendanvu1983]

Thank you for posting this. I'm guessing it was a follow up to your other video because I had others argue with me. Physical scientific approach to these concepts is way more factual than anecdotal ones.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It was definitely a "follow up" to my Cue Tip Myths video. It sparked quite a lot of controversy in KZbin comments and on AZBilliards.

[@brendanvu1983]

@@DrDaveBilliards I'm glad you posted this. A lot of the physics happens out of the nature of our perception, so having these type of experiments can demystify what actually happens, rather than our perceptions of what we thought happened

[@trailprice]

I would like to see one more test. Please show that maximum draw is identical with all three hardness's.

[@si98justme1]

That is a great idea. While my experience definitely is in line with Dave’s for side spin, I do think that a softer tip might make a much bigger difference in draw and Masse shots, as the contact duration might be long enough to overcome more friction between cloth and cue ball. Since maximum draw is a relative term (ie backspin), it might even be interesting to see that draw happen with maximum elevation of the cue.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The action of he hit with bottom spin is no different than the action of the hit with sidespin. What is different with a draw shots, is more speed is often required. Because a harder tip has a slightly better hit efficiency (energy transfer), a harder tip will offer a slight added advantage over a softer tip, where slightly more CB speed will retain slightly more backspin on the way to the OB. But getting good draw is more about stroke technique than equipment. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@si98justme1 Maybe for masse, but not for draw. With a draw shot, the CB is off the tip before significant CB-cloth/table interaction occurs. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/physics-advice/

[@si98justme1]

Thanks for the input. Yeah for a “conventional” draw shot your video does prove that hardness as negligible effect at best. However you don’t need to play a conventional draw shot, there is another way to draw the cue ball, using a Masse style cue action, except instead of “curving” the cue ball, you play it straight towards the object ball. Not the easiest shot, due to awkward cuing and the tendency to squirt the cue ball in unintended directions, but I have personally played this shot many times, with dramatically better draw action than a conventional draw. Especially when I find myself needing the cue ball on the other end of the table and I don’t have the space to use a conventional draw, with follow through, between the object and cue balls. I tend to use a soft tip for this type of shot because I assume it is better for it, however seeing the results you’ve shared, has made me think it might be interesting to see if harder tips can work just as well. Anyway, if this does prove worth exploring and experimenting on, I would highly recommend getting a few business cards or sheets of card stock to use as protection for your table’s cloth.

[@trailprice]

​@@DrDaveBilliards You are claiming that side spin and bottom spin are no different and I don't disagree. Why not demonstrate that as definitive proof? Use a phenolic tip and a soft tip and show that you can draw just as well with either one. In both cases the stroke technique would be negligible (yours in both cases). I suspect you can't demonstrate this and it's because the miscue limit with the phenolic is too close to the center. It's not that your are wrong in your claim but the huge difference in miscue limits would play a huge role in the amount of draw you could impart. If you still disagree, I just challenge you to demonstrate it with no editing.

[@veronicahawthorne3452]

Finally, a video that tells the truth. I’ve been sick and tired of people for years saying a soft tip will yield more spin! I will save this video and show it to them.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you want them to really do their “homework,” send them here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@sethh8892]

While people could argue that you may not be hitting the exact same amount of side Spin and the exact same amount of energy each time, my argument comes from simple experience. And from experience, a smaller, softer, tip has always given me WAY more controll and more sidespin with less chance of miscue. I currently run a 10 mil tip with a kamui supersoft and I absolutely love it. I can damn near hit the edge of the ball (in left hand spin, the left side of my cue tip is nearly parallel with the left edge of the ball, vice-versa for right hand spin) and NEVER miscue, assuming I properly chalk. I use Kamui .98 and Konelenn Nano chalk, which seems to be very effective with my combination. I'm also using a Go Customs Carbon SNK shaft with a Predator 2 butt.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I designed the tests at the end of the video so stroke consistency doesn't matter. If you push the miscue limit and take enough attempts, you will eventually get maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad a player you are.

[@davekat4680]

Thanks once again Doctor 💯

[@paullordi5154]

Watching your videos you are still hitting the ball 10 feet . The video I watched I also saw miss ques . The soft at slow speeds is less misquees. I very much would love to continue a respectable conversation on this with you dr Dave.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You or others can do similar tests at super-slow finesses speed instead if you want. I would expect the results to be the same. Concerning the miscues, as I explained in the video, that was the goal of the test, to push the miscue limit so much (to find the maximum spin possible for each cue/tip) that you should miscue half the time during the tests. Obviously, in actual play, you don't push the miscue limit that much.

[@jeschinstad]

My criticism of this is that you're comparing the best spins you get with each tip, ignoring the miscues. In reality, if extreme spin with a hard tip leads to more miscues than you get with a soft tip, then you get more spin with a soft tip, since you will instinctively reduce your spin with the hard tip. This is comparable to players used to pub cues. Because they're often not perfectly straight, they tend to be bad at backspin, because they've subconsciously trained themselves to aim higher on the white to avoid scooping. But it is a very interesting video! :)

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Check out my "POWER DRAW and Large-Curve Massé with a BREAK CUE Phenolic Tip!!!" follow-up video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIvGi5-Ag7xof6M I didn't miscue once with the super hard tip.

[@jeschinstad]

@@DrDaveBilliards: Right. That was an interesting video too, but again, I think my point is that if the hard tip requires much more skill to get the same effect, then I would continue to say that the soft tip gives more effect. You might simply be too good to use as an example.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@jeschinstad That is kind of you. Related to your points, hard tips (especially phenolic-based tips) do not hold chalk as well as most soft tips; so if you don't chalk carefully or often enough, a softer tip might be a better choice. FYI, other differences are listed here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@jeschinstad]

@@DrDaveBilliards: I've been testing your claims with people who have never played pool before. They all agree with you and they all prefer to play with my breaking cue than my playing cue. This is really interesting to me. I play with a 11.75mm soft tip Z2, so that might be an issue, but I'm _really_ interested now.

[@NoVowel]

Another wonderful video.. thanks!!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you, and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@Poolology101]

Another great video, Dave. However, it would be more convincing/valid to use the exact same type of cue each time, only with different tips on them. Also, an argument could be made that the different cues produce different efficiency regarding energy transfer, which would affect the action off the cushion. And it could also be argued that your stroke speed is not perfectly consistent for each shot. I would love to see someone use something like the old Meucci stroke machine/robot to do this test. Use two different tips (super soft vs med hard) and two exact cues. Stroke speeds should be equal and the tip offsets (imparted spin) should be perfectly equal each time. Instead of measuring the rebound angle, measure the rpm's generated for each cb. I realize this would be much more involved (using machined equipment and a tachometer somehow), but the results would be more convincing.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

As described and demonstrated in the video, for meaningful comparisons, CB speed needs to be the same, not stroke speed. The CB speed was "measured" by how far the CB travelled. Concerning "measuring" the spin, rebound angle is reliable and no special equipment required. It will vary from one table to the next, but relative comparisons will be valid. BTW, testing machine results are not always very good. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

[@Poolology101]

@@DrDaveBilliards yes, you wanted equal cb speeds to show that with different tips/cues you got similar results. What I'm saying is that the applied effort (stroke speed) is what should be equal, not cb speed, in order to determine if any significant difference in spin is generated with different tips. And also the cues should be equal (weight and shaft deflection). If you want to show or prove that tip hardness does not make a significant difference in spin, the only thing that should be different in the equipment and test procedure is tip hardness. One tip should be a super soft, the other a medium or medium hard. Everything else should be the same. I'm just pointing out things that could make the test results more convincing or valid. With the same effort applied (same stroke speed with the same cue), a medium hard tip would have a more efficient hit, transferring more energy, than a super soft tip. Does more energy tranfer result in more cb spin, ie...rpm's? That's the type of test that would be more accurate for determining which tip might produce more spin. 🤔 Anyway, I'm sure any slight difference in spin would be too small to be of any real benefit anyway.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I know what you are saying, I just don't agree based on all the reasons I describe and demonstrate in the first half of the video. For example, Bob Meucci's "Myth Destroyer" testing machine was actually a "Myth Creator" due to all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/#rules

[@taylormowen597]

How can these be a verified test using different shafts, shaft sizes and different brands of tips? I'd be more inclined if it was all predator brand using the same shaft just different hardness of tips.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I think there is more than enough verification in all the videos and explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Check it out.

[@nealcosmo937]

Wow!!! Thx so much for this and all of your amazing videos and hard work. I've always used a softer tip bc I dont have a big stroke and thought I needed to for maximum english. Now it looks like I should switch to a hard tip for the same amount of English but for maximum power??? Does this sound right? Also, does a harder tip miscue more often than a softer tip? Thx again for all that you do for the billiards industry!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. I prefer a harder tip for all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Hit efficiency (slightly more speed with the same effort) is one reasons. Phenolic tips don't hold chalk as well, so more miscues can be a concern, but this is not the case with typical hard playing tips.

[@si98justme1]

Dr Dave, while I agree with your findings in my experience, I do think you should consider a colab, or even just take a few cues (sorry couldn’t resist), from project farm’s videos, where he eliminates as many variables as possible by making test jigs for the maximum possible repeatability. It shouldn’t be too hard with a pneumatic cylinder, a few bits of wood/metal and a cylinder that can be repeatedly pressurised to the same pressure, thereby “pushing” the cue at precisely the same speed and direction every time. Just a thought ;)

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I designed the tests at the end of the video so stroke consistency doesn't matter. If you push the miscue limit and take enough attempts, you will eventually get maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad a player you are. Also, testing machine results are not always very good. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@qwaszx2 Agreed. Careful measurements with speed/spin sensors (or slomo video analysis) would help provide additional validation. However, I think explanations, videos, links, and other info here are quite convincing: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@raymondgirardtan4978]

Nice explanation. Are there small differences in miscue limits for the three tips?

[@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth]

Good question.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The maximum spin I was able to get with each tip was the same, so the miscue limit is the same. I didn't show the chalk marks on the ball in this video, but I did check them after every shot. They were all similar to the image I showed at the beginning from the earlier testing video.

[@MikeyD8632]

I thought we had to hit as low as possible to get good draw on power stroke draw shots. Your saying to hit a little higher than I previously was doing. Very interesting. Can't wait to try today when I go practice. Take care

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Yep. It is still low, but not pushing the miscue limit. For more info and examples, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/power/

[@coreyquante2616]

Yup, one tip below center can easily drow over 9ft, it's stroke quality that matters.

[@KK-sg5gl]

I’ve been playing for over 20 years and am a 700 rated player, with credentials to back it up. For me, personally at least, I’ve concluded (100% certainty) that a softer tip produces more squirt. I use several different shots to test this, and have noticed this phenomenon every time. I first noticed it when buying my first Predator REVO shaft, as it comes with a soft tip installed. The aim on these test shots that I use were off by at least half a ball. I immediately cut the tip off and changed it to a hard tip, which is what I was accustomed to at the time. The squirt and aiming of those same exact shots were now consistent with my previous shaft that also had a hard tip on it. There was almost no need for adjustment. I then further tested this by using someone else’s REVO shaft on my cue, which still had the soft tip installed. Same result as in the cue ball was squirting about a half ball more then I anticipated when shooting my test shots. For further confirmation of my testing method, I am able to make these shots 20+ times in a row, very consistent. But once I change the tip from my usual hard to soft, I consistently miss them the same exact way, over cutting or under cutting them by about half a ball, depending on the shot. If this isn’t scientific enough and an indication that tip hardness affects squirt, then I don’t know what is. Also, I use the tip hardness chart that’s out there to gauge what exactly I was using, because the difference can be small or very large when just using terms like soft, medium, or hard. For this test, at the time I was using the predator victory tips. The victory soft has a hardness reading of 75.3, while the hard came in at 85.3.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Theory certainly predicts that the longer contact time with a softer tip should cause more deflection (unless it is less dense and lighter, which tends to cancel the effect). See the section at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@DigiTuben]

Great video! Although I disagree, you can hit the ball further on the outside with a soft tip, which would cause more spin. Also less miscues with soft.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. That sounds reasonable, but it is not true based on the explanations, videos, and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@JohnJohnson-zq9rg]

I just adapt the aim when playing with side spin, depending on shot speed, ammount of spin, bridgelenght, dry/moist climat conditions and cue elevation. I do not do pivotting when down on the shot. Judging aiming line is done when standing and walking into the shot. When down on the shot I do not need to change it.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

That's how most players do it. But not all players are as accurate and consistent as others when doing this. Without SAWS, my aim with sidespin was unreliable, especially for large amounts of sidespin and longer shots. With SAWS, I am much, much better.

[@joebottini1743]

Great video, Dr. Dave. I checked your cue efficiency page. Mike Page uses an analogy of treating the tip as an elastic spring. You can use the same analogy to support your observation that increased hardness results in more efficient collisions. If you can treat the tip as a spring, then increasing the hardness is analogous to increasing the spring coefficient, k. For the same force, F=-kx, increasing k reduces x. The energy going into the spring is E=(1/2)kx^2. For the same force, the energy through the spring varies by 1/k. The energy of the 'wobbling' of the spring after contact should be proportional to the energy going through the spring in the first place. Thus, stiffer tips should be more efficient. I've read through some but not all of your technical proofs, so forgive me if you've already considered it. I figured I'd point it out as it's an analogy anyone with a high-school-level understanding of physics should be able to grasp.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks for sharing that.

[@freakoffear3823]

New question… does tip width effect the amount of spin? My buddy believes a 13 mm gives less spin than a 11.75. When I shoot with either I agree

[@si98justme1]

That’s actually very easily answered. The 13mm has a wider diameter so the contact point would be more towards the centre of the cue ball (very slightly) than the 11mm, if the centre of the cue is at exactly the same point for both. In essence, you would need to adjust what you think is the contact point slightly further out to achieve the same contact point as the 11mm. I’ve seen this effect and personally have had experience with using a 4mm tip vs 8mm.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

[@brianmack6285]

Given the tip hardness changed the contact point size but had no/negligible effect on spin imparted, does this lead to idea that neither tip size nor shape will affect spin imparted, so long as the CP remains at the same location? If a naked shaft would hold chalk, why wouldn't that work just as well, perhaps even a bit more efficiently ?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I naked wood shaft would not withstand the abuse after a while. That's why we have ferrules ... to protect the wood from damage. The tip also helps lessen the impact to the wood. Concerning tip shape and size, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

[@brianmack6285]

@@DrDaveBilliards Obviously I was being a bit facetious but I believe your link proves the point. The tip, size and hardness, has negligible affect on play. Shape is perhaps a tad more influential as it expands or contracts the actual miscue limit (up to the 30 deg max) as opposed to how easily a player may operate at the limit without going over it.

[@CueballcontrolSometimes]

I will try this for no other reason than to ingrain the miscue limits of my cue/tip combination.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good idea.

[@oatmeal9900]

Hello Dr. Dave, Thanks again for another great video. What is the point of having a soft, medium, hard or super hard tip then...besides feel? Thanks again!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I think it is mostly "feel"/sound, and "marketing."

[@DavePlaysPool]

Thanks Dr Dave. I've been on a cue journey and read your resource along the way as it helped explain why i liked using non traditional cues. Coming from a snooker and blackball background, I moved into American cue sports and used my 8mm ash pool cue for about a year. It played really well but had a limitation or two. I then moved to the mainstream cues but they never felt right. I then started playing with my pheonolic tip break cue, loved it. So with all this cue type experience I learned that I like a small diameter tip, medium to firm hardness. I'm currently having a custom cue built which is pretty much what Mark Grey uses, 10mm, Ash etc. I'll probably review the cue on KZbin in future. So thanks again, it always nice to have the data. There's a lot of myths and marketing narrative which can be quite confusing. 👏

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you want to see more common pool myths debunked, see: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/

[@B-nu8ss]

Dr Dave, what tip hardness would you recommend for a regular playing cue, if I don't have much preference for how it feels in my hand? It sounds like, perhaps counterintuitively, the best cue tip even for a playing cue is a hard (e.g., phenolic or hard leather) tip, because it transfers energy best to the cue ball and therefore one can play high-speed shots, such as long draw shots (which I have a lot of trouble with--I lose accuracy too fast when I hit hard...), with slightly less cue power.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

This is a personal preference sort of thing, but I prefer a hard tip (maybe not phenolic hard, but hard leather) for all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@jamesec1949]

Dr. Dave, I wish you had shown draw shots that are quite evident using different tips. Also what is your preferred cue and tip combo. You don’t have to mention a manufacturer unless you choose to. I’m thinking more in weight, width, high or low deflection and tip shape. Thanks. James

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The miscue limit is the same for draw shots as it is for sidespin shots and the action of the hit is no different. What is different is that draw shots require more speed, so a harder tip offers a slight advantage. For lots of info on the topics you mentioned, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/ I prefer a hard tip on an LD CF shaft with a small diameter and dime radius.

[@IndianHeathen1982]

I am very upset right now. I sent my 12.4 revo shaft to Thailand to get it retipped. It will be back in a week. In the meantime, I have been playing with my BK rush. It does everything that my P3 does and as a bonus, I can jump with it because of the hard tip. I am wondering why I even have a separate break cue and playing cue. Dr. Dave please tell me why pool cue companies pull this wool over our eyes. So frustrated.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The BK Hybrid tip is "versatile;" but most people still prefer the better finesse control (and better chalk sticking) offered by a "playing cue tip." For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@thedevilinthecircuit1414]

I think many players equate the size of the contact patch with traction--like how a tire grips the road via friction. The huge difference, however, between a tire and a cue tip is contact time. Contact patch size does not equate to increased friction on a cue ball strike.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@thedevilinthecircuit1414 Agreed, unless the tip is not chalked well, in which case a larger contact patch size could help. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@rodconner9079]

Another great and informative video!!!! Be Safe

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks!

[@otis84031]

I’d be very interested in the % of miscues between the tips. I try not to but there have been incidents where I accidentally continue to play with my break cue. What is a dead giveaway is when I eventually miscue and end the inning. I mean, my first thought is… we’ll if the tips are all the same, why not just play with a hard time, which is more consistent over time. The problem with a soft it is that it hardens over time as you play. So to keep that consistency you need to replace them frequently… why?!? But it would make to play with a soft cue if you’re miscuing all the time.

[@otis84031]

Good night! Type-os all over the place… sorry * a dead giveaway of that mistake is when I miscue *play with a hard tip *would make sense to play I currently play with a kamui soft and I think my next replacement I’ll go with a kamui medium, to try and achieve more consistency as the tips wears

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you chalk properly and often enough (e.g., before each shot), and if the tip holds chalk well, there should be no difference in the % of miscues. During my filming, I think I got a few more miscues with the break cue tip (BK hybrid), but not when I chalked carefully. Phenolic tips do not hold chalk as well, so you do need to chalk them with care if you plan to use them for close-to-maximum-spin shots.

[@otis84031]

@@DrDaveBilliards that’s a reasonable explanation, thanks Dr Dave!

[@BobWalter]

Nice analysis! As always. So my take away is that tip hardness comes down to personal preference. Was there something you liked more or less when hitting with the different tips?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don’t really care too much about tip differences; although, I generally prefer a harder tip based on the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@hoots711]

Love the Channel Dr Dave! Quick question that your video didnt cover. What tip should an average player start with (S/M/H) and why would you switch between them? If the amount of spin is not determined by tip hardness, what factors do tip hardness impact? Thank you!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It doesn't really matter much, but I recommend a harder tip per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@stevemarion9591]

Dr.Dave your spot on the wall video is great, if I shoot hard it comes up short, shoot easy it drops right in. Here is my question, what do we do when where in a game and the object ball is not even close to the spot on the wall? My mind could be going blank, is there a method when the oBject ball is nowhere near a spot on the wall.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It doesn't matter where the OB is. You still aim it at the particular "spot on the wall" for the type of bank you are hitting. For more info, see the videos and other resources here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/

[@navjot4086604]

Does it make sense to use a very light cue 14 oz with very soft tip? This might help significantly increase margin of error for underhitting Or overhitting. This is probably because cue ball distance travel varies with square of hit efficiency

[@DrDaveBilliards]

… only for slow, finesse shots.

[@RubSomefastOnIt]

i like that cue ball. the design seems nice and way better than the over done silkscreened rempee. where can I find one?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It is called the "Elephant Practice Ball." You should be able to search for it and find it online.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you can't find one, aiming at the edge of the stripe on a striped ball works just as well.

[@vincentbeaurivage]

I know you aim to swerve the billiard community but damn … my head spins a lot after watching this! Thanks again for your work!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Does your head spin in a good way, or a bad way?

[@beatyourbrotherbilliards9020]

This seems to beg the question what tip gives the best overall performance. I assume ability to hold chalk, ease of maintaining shape, and efficient transfer of power could be evaluated. Of course, feel and sound would vary from person to person so ignoring that how did you pick the tip for your playing cue?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I prefer a harder tip per the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@beatyourbrotherbilliards9020]

THANKS

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@beatyourbrotherbilliards9020 You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@NickCurran]

Excellent video doc! It sort of begs a video for what tip softness selection does mean in one’s game. Not impacting spin implies that it doesn’t impact miscue limit. I’ve certainly used some bar cues that could barely be used off center. Is that only tip shape? What’s the value in a softer tip then?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If the bar cue cannot impart spin, it is probably because it is glazed and not holding chalk well. Harder tips do offer some advantages per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Although, some people will prefer a softer tip for the "feel" and sound of the hit: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ or because it might make it easier to control speed of finesse shots.

[@mikeplant9163]

I think the perceived wisdom has always been that a soft tip has better contact with the cue ball and so can impart more control, as you just showed the difference is negligible . far better that a player picks a tip to suit his playing style and practices to get optimal performance with it.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@mikeplant9163 Agreed; although, I prefer a harder tip for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@mikeplant9163]

@@DrDaveBilliards I recently bought a cue to use at a neighbours, ( he's got a nice 7 foot english pooltable) and it came with the hardest thinnest and crookedest tips you've ever seen.(yes screw in) I promptly replaced these by cutting off the leather and gluing on Elk master tips.cue feels so much better as i doesn't jar with each shot , confidence has improved , and so has win rate. there is no claimed hardness on these tips when you buy from amazon , but I would say medium/hard . one day we want to get to the local snooker hall and try out their american pool table.

[@raz0gaming]

so to make it clear then what makes a different between cue tip hardness if it doesnt effect spin on high or even low spin,is it basically just a "cosmetic" that you choose along you changing and try different hardness and what shooting feel you like the most?

[@raz0gaming]

i've still don't get enough why there are soft,medium and hard tip but according to my experience as new player that has tried 3 of those that are the same type just different hardness(kamui black clear) i really like soft and medium but i do prefer medium more since when i use soft it only takes 2 week before the tip starts to mushrooming and i had to pay another 24USD to change the tip but in medium hardness i found a balance between durability and kinda "soft" feeling when i hit the ball,i dont like hard at all and i play really bad for 2 months because i'm using hard,it feels like i just made a shot onto a concrete and i feel like it makes my stroke a bit worse because it has feedback(maybe it's just a placebo effect because of the sound that hard tip makes when it hits) and it really annoy me

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@raz0gaming There are many differences, all of which are summarized here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@justachristian4072]

Dr. Dave, I like to get your thoughts on this: I saw your video on drawing the ball with different tip hardnesses. Might a softer tip impart less speed on the cue ball that the spin has to overcome which would be important on draw shots that are cuts. In other words, with a harder tip the cue ball would travel down the 90 degree line longer before drawing. I always thought of a good stroke being able to generate more rpm’s per mph.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

For a given tip offset, a softer tip imparts slightly less speed and slightly less spin by the same proportion. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@NoLimitBamBam]

I remember you did a video on safeties and used the jump cue to kill action on the cueball to freeze the cueball behind a blocker. For some reason, the jump cue (which has a harder tip) killed the cueball roll much more efficiently than a playing cue. So then why is that?

[@new2POOL208]

Probably easier to accidentally apply spin with a softer tip. Covering more area, allows for more room for error maybe? Also becomes more accurate where you're trying to hit 🎯 on the cue, pinpoint. Guessing

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You might be referring to a video where I used a jump cue to help avoid a double hit (because it is much lighter). It was probably one of the videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/double-hit/ or maybe it was this shot in my "Top 10 Useful GAME-WINNING SHOTS You Need to Know" video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6Oth6Wdq5WBl5I

[@NoLimitBamBam]

@DrDaveBilliards yup that was the shot with the jump cue right about 11:20 in the video you linked. Glad you linked it cuz I went looking for it. Seemed like the jump cue's hard tip took the English off of the cueball. I guess I could be wrong. I've always thought the hard tip tales English off the cueball. You're making me questions things

[@andrewverrett568]

I been playing with a medium tip for years. Played with my dad's super soft tip and on the first shot the same amount of spin I normally put on the cue ball made the cue ball spin an insane amount more than when I do it with my medium tip. Took me a couple hours to get use to the super soft tip. I don't care what anyone says. Soft tips make it easier to put spin on it. May not put more spin on it but makes it easier to put spin on it. So if you know how to put spin on a cue ball you'll accidentally put more spin on it using a soft tip. If you are learning how to put spin on it soft tip is better for learning.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@andrewverrett568 See the “Can a softer tip put more spin on the ball?” section here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@austinheath6135]

Sounds like pool astrology

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@austinheath6135 If somebody really believes a soft tip is better, they should play with a soft tip. I prefer a harder tip for all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@austinheath6135 If you want to see a whole “book” of pool “astrology” debunked by logical “astronomy,” check out the Top 100 Myths of Pool: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/ There are many myths and misconceptions in the pool world.

[@Kalerix9999]

Im finding alot of videos on playing cue tips but not many on break cue tips, im switching from a bakelite tip to a saramasa all leather break top hoping it can take chawlk better do you have any recommendations on break tips/chawlk?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I like the BK-Hybrid tip on Predator break and jump cues. Master chalk works fine. For more info on chalk, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/

[@erickort1987]

thanks DrDaveBilliards sir,great video, i have a kamui SS tip on my jacoby 11.75 mm ultra pro shaft,i get fairly good english off from it

[@Angryheadache]

Dr Dave, I have one cue with a zan premium soft tip. I am able to get very good draw using this tip. I also have another cue with a kamui black medium tip and I am unable to get good draw with this tip. Is it just a performance issue ?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@Angryheadache It is usually the player, not the tip. Although, there are some possible explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

[@TeensierPython]

So what is the reason someone should go with a harder or softer tip? I just use what came on the stick right now.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@TeensierPython …. mostly personal preference, but many reasons are summarized here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@georgemathiellis5486]

I can verify that both my playing cue (soft tip) and break cue (phenolic tip) can impart about the same spin, but seeking the max spin I can make 9/10 shots without a misscue with the soft tip and 2-3/10 shots with the phenolic..... I have much more confidence playing shots with lots of spin using a soft tip and I also like the feel of the longer contact.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

FYI, a softer tip does provide a different "feel," but it is impossible to detect the "longer contact" since humans can't detect time differences in the millisecond (thousandth of a second or 0.001s) range. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/

[@Ridinfixinman]

I definitely don't have the depth of knowledge that you do, but this mostly confirmed my anecdotal findings that hardness doesn't have the effects that some think it does. Maybe a good way of putting it would be that softer tips are more forgiving of error and stroke deficiency?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

"Softer tips are more forgiving of error and stroke deficiency" is another false myth. All factual differences are listed here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@Ridinfixinman]

@@DrDaveBilliards interesting... thanks for taking the time to put all this info up! I'm still pouring through all of it, but will make it a point to watch this.

[@nakkadu]

So is there any advantage to a softer tip? Or would it make sense to use a harder one that will last longer and maybe be more consistent?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I prefer a harder tip for all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@MrSulkow1]

Very interesting. Nice video 👌

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad you liked it. Thanks.

[@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth]

Dr Dave, I use a soft tip 12. When I'm hitting a soft shot the requires max spin, I sort of turn my cue sideways and jab it with the edge of the tip. It creates phenomenal amount of spin. Have you ever experimented with this technique? You can't hit it hard like this is the only problem.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/swoop-swipe/

[@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth]

@@DrDaveBilliards thanks! One more question. Traditionally it is taught to have a level cue and I've seen you mention this alot. I've been watching hours of pro tourneys and they all play with a jacked up cue (not as level as they could make be). It's almost like they set their bridge hand as if they are playing off the rail (same level). Whats your thoughts on this doc?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth The cue is never level because it needs to clear over the rails. And for draw shots (with a low tip), the cue is elevated even more. And if the grip hand is close to a rail, extra elevation is required so you don't hit the rail during the stroke. And on the break, many players drop their elbow and raise the tip during the stroke so they need to elevated more and aim lower before the stroke.

[@fredrikschonemann5916]

I totally agree with the findings. What about ease of applying spin? I have the feeling it is easier to apply spin with softer tips, that they are more forgiving and don't require as pure of a hit. More beginner friendly if you will. I play with a hard tip as it feels like it keeps my stroke honest.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you think that, it might be true for you. Softer tips sometimes hold chalk better; so if you don’t chalk carefully, a soft tip could offer an advantage.

[@louieatienza8762]

Interesting. However you bring up the point about tip hardness versus energy transfer 'efficiency." So to effect the same spin and speed with each cue, you would have to adjust your stroke to a slightly different speed. I can conclude from this that if one has generally a firmer stroke, they may be more comfortable playing with a soft tip. Conversely, if a player is more finessed or has a slower stroke, they may prefer the harder tip. I do play with a hard tip, and I find when the tip is softer I have a feeling of needing to "hit" the ball harder to generate the same cueball shape I can achieve with a harder tip and smoother stroke.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The difference in energy transfer among typical playing-cue tip hardnesses is not very large (the difference is larger with a break cue with a phenolic tip), but it is a small factor.

[@lo0ksik]

Hey drdave. You have any info on tall cue tip effects ?? Is there any diference?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

A few bullets on my tip hardness resource page deal with tip height effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@ronaldmeeks4653]

I have been working with the theory that the tips do not impart more spin but that a "grippier" tip wil move your miscue limit out thus creating more spin. Take bottom for an example. It is possible to hit all the way down with the tip just off the cloth and not miscue. This,depending on tip size,is way outside the normal comfortable miscue limit. Albeit there is increased deflection but still spin by and large should be greater.

[@ronaldmeeks4653]

The tip size affects your perceived amount of spin as the actual contact point is different from the centerline of shaft. A large tip will have to be visually further from center to get the same contact point. Small but perceivable difference fooling some into thinking they are getting more spin or are able to go further out than others while in truth the contact points are the same. This should be noted for peoples attention. Also this affects describing shots. One tip of english ,strokes being similar, will vary if tip size is very different. I suppose tip shape, dime verses nickel also factors in.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

All good points. For those who want to learn more or see illustrations and demonstrations, check out: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/maximum/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/tips-and-percentage/

[@MrAntup]

It is the placebo effect if you think a soft tip gives you more spin then it will as you are confident it will. For me i put a compressed triangle on my cue 5 yrs ago i break with my playing cue and not even a hint of mushrooming.

[@ronniecortex4936]

Ok, but how do you know that the difference in contact time has no effect at all?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Detailed explanations can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ Enjoy!

[@ronniecortex4936]

@@DrDaveBilliards 👍👍Thank you, master!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@ronniecortex4936 You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@ronniecortex4936]

@@DrDaveBilliards 👍👍 Always swerving

[@AndrewT]

Did you notice that you miscued more with the hard break tip? Thanks

[@DrDaveBilliards]

... at first, when I wasn't chalking carefully enough; but when I starting chalking with care, I didn't notice any difference.

[@peytonfulkerson9835]

What would the benefits be of a hard vs soft playing cue tip then?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Many benefits are listed here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@peytonfulkerson9835]

@@DrDaveBilliards what about tip diameter? And what is tip offset?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

[@lokyinphotography]

So summary. The softness of the tip only gives you different "sounds" when you hit the ball?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

…and a slightly less efficient hit. For other differences, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@chelseacallahan7032]

i played with a super hard for years , switched to a soft and was missing everything badly!! i thought it was the amount of spin the soft tip provided, after several practice sessions i now think the soft tip throws the ball more! any thought on that?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

A longer contact time does increase CB deflection, but a lighter tip decreases it. The effects mostly balance for a soft tip (unless it is dense). For more info, see the section at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@joemeskey8918]

Very nice video. Your tests appear valid when applying sidespin with a nearly level stroke. Your conclusion, though, that tip hardness doesn't matter much may not hold true in other stroke scenarios. In particular, consider a situation in which you must apply significant backspin at distance (e.g., a straight shot with the object ball 8-10' feet away). In such a scenario, a different and more complex set of variables and constraints come into play. For example, depending on the cue ball's distance from the rail, a nearly level stroke that will apply backspin may not be possible. The cue's angle of descent with a hard stroke affects tip compression, and may lead to differences between hard and soft tips in these sorts of shots. Have you done any tip hardness comparison tests involving power draw at distance?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad you liked it. I have done test for other types of shots. See the video and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Enjoy!

[@keeleyg1]

What sort of tip would you recommend for a player who sometimes hops the cue-ball when attempting deep screw (that's draw in American)?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Any tip that holds chalk is fine, but I prefer a harder tip for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Concerning scooping the ball, that is a technique problem, not a tip problem. For help with this, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/

[@keeleyg1]

@@DrDaveBilliards thank you sir

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@keeleyg1 You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. 🤓

[@alpaul]

OK, but now you need to do a follow up study. Which tip hardness gets the most consistent results. You would need the same cue and shaft type to take away some of the variables, but could do it with a cheap predator butt (or other brand) that was easy to switch shafts with that are all the same (i.e. all 314s). Each would have different tip harnesses. You would then perform say 10 different shots with the different hardness tips 10 times each. To take away any bias you may have in terms of preference, you would need to label the shafts so you know which one has a specific tip, cover the label, then add a secondary label to them so that you can record your results when using shafts at random. Using a manufacturer that makes tips at different hardness would help offset variations between brands, although I would assume this would minimal or non existent based on this video and its previous video. It might help end the tip debate entirely in conjunction with this video.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

That's a good idea. You should do it and post the video. If you do, please post a link here.

[@Smittyonthabeat]

Another great video

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks.

[@ramensospicy2992]

hey dr dave! i love your videos! thanks for doing all these experiments. i have a question. for softer tips, doesnt it allow you to hit much harder at the extreme miscue limits with more security? can you hit at that same extreme force with a hard tip? thanks again dr dave!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I believe a typical hard playing-cue tip (but not a break cue phenolic tip) has a miscue limit just as reliable (if not better) than a soft tip based on the info, detailed explanations, and demonstrations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@splattered1]

What if the cue ball is near the rail and and u need to play a softer shot? Would tip softness affect that?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

... a little.

[@thetowndrunk988]

I’d love to see what effect, if any, shaft deflection and different types of chalk have on spin.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

They don't. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/

[@thetowndrunk988]

@@DrDaveBilliards awesome. Thanks for the info

[@graemehirstwood670]

So what is the advantage of differing tip firmness?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@graemehirstwood670]

@@DrDaveBilliards awesome, thank you

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@joezanella3787]

So in your opinion, what are the advantages/disadvantages of a softer tip? You mentioned the small increase in a chance for a delayed miscue. Aside from that is it just a matter of preference?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

All advantages and disadvantages of soft and hard tips are summarized and explained here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@stephenburdess2914]

So deciding what whether to use soft or hard basically just depends on preference and feel?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Mostly; although, a hard tip does offer advantages per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@stephenburdess2914]

@@DrDaveBilliards thanks, I really appreciate your quick responses, and your content.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@stephenburdess2914 You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. 🤓

[@coreyquante2616]

How bout close slow spin shots? Like a touch safety shot requiring spin? Under 12" away

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I wouldn’t expect the results to be any different.

[@carloscobarrubia44]

What about tip diameter does a smaller tip create more spit ?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Short answer: No. Long answer: See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

[@carloscobarrubia44]

Thanks for the info. Really appreciate all the videos

[@dimasprajoko]

no body uses parallel english anymore do they? and do we have to use that many english, instead just use half of that and not get that many squirt?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Some people think all pros use “parallel English.” See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/parallel-english/ You are right about using less spin (and slower speed) results in less CB deflection.

[@Cody2nd]

I’ve been playing for a year and getting my first cue, I’ve decided to invest in a pretty decent one as I’ve stuck with the game and play a lot. Is there a benefit of having a hard tip over a soft or medium?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I prefer a hard tip for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@stephenshupe8636]

What about the aiming point for each of the tips? Is it different? If so, how does that factor into the results of the test? Are the differences between the tips further minimized/reduced by using a different aiming point. Thanks you for all the great videos!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

As I mentioned and demonstrated in the video, each shaft had a different amount of CB deflection, so I did need to aim slightly differently with each. The aim was verified by making sure the CB was sent over the foot spot or to the golf tee on the rail. Concerning contact point on the ball, if you push the miscue limit and take enough attempts (some will be miscues if you are pushing the limit), you will eventually get maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad a player you are.

[@hilmisulthon9513]

What is the difference between an expensive tip and a cheap tip? or there is no difference like chalk?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

As long as a tip holds chalk it is fine with me. Although, a harder tip has the advantages summarized here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@gmiller123456]

I don't think this experiment is analogous to actual play. I don't think many people hit the ball at the edge of miscuing during actual play (on purpose). At the edge of a miscue is when the least amount of tip would be in contact with the ball, and the effects between the tips is reduced to a minimum. What really needs to be measured is now much spin you can reliably put on the ball without the danger of a miscue. Also, even with a hit slightly off center, more spin under that situation would be better as the effect of deflection would be less, and my rather crude tests shows the softer tip puts more spin on the ball when hit the same distance off center.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If a tip is chalked properly and you hit inside the miscue limit, you will not miscue. But if you want, you can try the tests at the end of the video with some other amount of spin, for example half of maximum. If you do everything I recommend in the video, I am confident your results will be no different for different tip hardness, regardless of the amount of spin.

[@skmalladi]

The ACS, BCA, and APA need to get their act together and grant you an honorary PhD in pool/billiards. Also, maybe - just maybe, Dr.Dave for president? Why not, I say?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you. BTW, a fun little fact is: I already do have a "Doctorate of Pool" (DP) from the Billiard University: billiarduniversity.org/testing/alumni/

[@roydimmy6081]

Indeed yes. Just like a cue with a wrap or without a wrap will shoot the same. Yes, indeed. But you know the big difference for many players? The feel. The sound. The feedback of a certain tip on a certain shaft on a certain cue. Maybe softer and harder isn't about the grip or the spin, but just about the feel?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Agreed. Some people care a lot about "feedback" and "feel." I don't per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ I just care about where the CB goes and with what speed and spin amount.

[@theasianone3327]

Are there any actual benefits or drawbacks to different tips then or is it all just what feels best to the player?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Hard playing tips offer slight advantages per the info here! billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Abut the decision is mostly “personal preference” and “feel.”

[@Dakobotoh]

What about tip size? Is smaller tip throw more spin?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

No. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/