Dread Ep 10 - "Doom" clone for Amiga - Update Sep-Dec 2021

A quick update, about what was happening with Dread lately
The important links are:
- our Discord server: / discord
0:00 - Intro
1:20 - 01 - Discord & Dread Map SDK
3:00 - 02 - Patreon Updates Sep-Dec 2021
12:48 - Ending words & outro
The sountracks used courtesy of:
- Mr. Quiet - / chiptonizee-for-futuri...
This game uses assets by:
- John Tsakiris/PixelGlass
- Dennis Ramberg/Pixel Shade
- DMA-SC (Atsri ST music)
- the FreeDoom project (freedoom.github.io/)

[@thedungeondelver]

I would still love to see Doom's E1M1, with this engine, all on a single floppy, (or even two) running on an A500, shown in person to Carmack.

[@KKAltair]

Thanks! Well... I didn't manage to catch Carmack, but I have shown this one to RJ Mical over a Zoom call, and recorded his reaction. Probably I will include it in one of the future episodes. :)

[@thedungeondelver]

I have spoken to John Romero on a couple of occasions on Email and Facebook (a few years ago, and about Dungeons & Dragons tabletop game), I found him to be an eminently approachable dude, for what it's worth. And you're quite welcome. EDIT: @ 10:16 - is that some variable height floor action going on I see? :)

[@tedeusz83]

@@thedungeondelver show Him that fragment with E1M1 on Dread xD

[@Ehal256]

@@thedungeondelver Yes, romero is the chillest guy to talk to, I'm sure he'd love it. Also, that chasm effect is an illusion, the floor is flat, but the floor color is specific to each wall. Give each wall different floor colors, and you can make some convincing effects.

[@uriituw]

This looks insanely amazing!

[@Szymanskill]

The new features (especially the portals) are really impressive

[@KKAltair]

They aren't real portals, just teleports, at least at this point. I had to duplicate some parts of this room and corridors, and anything happening across silent teleport lines isn't supported (e.g. you can't shoot a rocket and expect to see it across the tunnel, etc).

[@adroharv9213]

quite remarkable seeing this engine on standard machines. These inclusions bringing it more in line with doom and insanely running on such tiny seemingly impossible hardware. One of the most impressive things I've seen in a long while

[@KKAltair]

I hope to be totally in line with Doom. :)

[@adroharv9213]

@@KKAltair Yeah It certainly looks that way which is mind boggling. I tend to buy some C64 and Amiga games digitally but I'd go all out and purchase a physical product in this case as I think a lot of folk would. This represents an exciting time for many Amiga and ST fans being it's a big deal in this space

[@per-olaeriksson2589]

Will buy this game.

[@tedeusz83]

Amazing piece of work.. taking Amiga 500 to the next level after decades :)

[@Myako]

This is an amazing project, what you're all achieving is truly incredible. 👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻💪🏻

[@Pracedru]

Beautiful... And also incredible that this runs well on a stock A500

[@Lambao231Gaming]

OMG ITS WORKED. damn! it really worked. Thank you

[@KKAltair]

Thanks! :)

[@bloxyman22]

Finally! Been waiting for another update video.

[@AmigaVR]

So awesome seeing this evolving. Can't wait to buy it. Amiga forever. some crazy ideas: Activating Traps on enemies. Pickup like a Berserker mode. More gore maybe dead bodies laying around.

[@betterbeavailable]

Nice to hear from you again 😊

[@loganjorgensen]

Wow some impressive progress, especially like the chasms, a lot of interesting things were never done in both raycasting or sector based engines mainly because of how rapid engine tech was changing bitd. Didn't think you'd push elevations this far, and portals incredible. Gameplay is really fleshing out in these past months and an excellent amount of community contribution. You and your team have made Amiga users SO happy ijs. :D

[@KKAltair]

Thank you! :)

[@plume...]

Absolutely amazing work, as always!

[@muteclan1775]

THANKS BRO

[@INSATR]

Seeing this running as smoothly as it is on Atari ST and Amiga makes me wonder how a Sega Mega Drive port would perform... :)

[@KKAltair]

I except it would perform similarily. ToyStory worked just fine, so Dread should too.

[@Ehal256]

@@edy1361 I have a work in progress engine for Megadrive that is somewhat similar, but less advanced, on my channel.

[@samsam2235]

Legendary stuff. 🙏

[@paul2062]

thankyou for the update it looks great

[@Biter]

It looks amazing every time, not only the game itself but the ways in which it solves problems. Big respect!

[@roheinz5007]

Awesome, Bro. Awesome… 🤩

[@KKC78]

Amazing... I wanna try someday. Looks amazing!

[@michaelparent3932]

Really amazing work guys!

[@bubbanstix2536]

The switches that affect textures just ask for a level in which Dreadguy has to restart a power engine in order to be able to open a big door.

[@KKAltair]

Nice idea. :) You can even make it yourself with the tools! :)

[@GrumpyOldBastard.]

Sweet stuff all around. Keep up the good work

[@5kogur]

Amazing work!!

[@MichalTV-]

would it be possible to add limited mouselook up and down?

[@KKAltair]

Well... maybe? :) This trick (a'la Duke Nukem 3D) in generall just scrolls the screen up and down, so there might be a place to factor it in in the new renderer.

[@Octamed]

@@KKAltair Keep in mind that 'mouse look' changes the way levels are played and in general made dudes gameplay worse, so I used to turn it off.

[@mariuszszarek1992]

Ameryka! Wygląda że sama rozgrywka wciągnie nosem wszelkie amigowe pseudo-domy.

[@TheSudsy]

Is your plan to sell the game once you have a version 1.0? Or is it only going to be available to Patreons? excellent work by the way.

[@KKAltair]

Definitely sell the full game, once it's done. Patreon is for people, who would like to support the project and get all the insider info (binaries included!) I can think of. :)

[@lechistanskiswit320]

@@KKAltair I want to support You on Patreon - is there after I do that a chance that You can send me WHDLoad Amiga file (or the link) as I don't have a real hardware - only amiga500mini? That would be amazing. Anyway - playing on a500mini Alien Breed 3D II: Killing Grounds - I believe with Your smart programming DOOM would be possible for AGA. Maybe with lowres, smaller window, low FPS - I believe KK/Altair could do that!

[@KKAltair]

@@lechistanskiswit320 Dread does not have WHDload files, but I'll look for the options of playing Dread on A500mini soon then. :)

[@HarhaMedia]

This is some next level wizardry!

[@jameswhitwell9156]

@KK/Altair - absolutely amazing work! In the editor I see the palette shown at the bottom of the screen, is it possible to change the palette during gameplay either with an event or perhaps determined by zones on the map? If the palette could change it would be possible to do some pseudo lighting effects e.g whilst walking down a corridor the palette slowly transitions into shades of a particular colour to make it look like you've walked into a coloured room. Keep up the abosultely fantastic work!

[@KKAltair]

Palette is already changed in game on player damage, when pickups are taken and when protective boots are on, but this is hardcoded for now. Eventually all will be scriptable and modable.

[@childishbeat]

I didn't know you were named after K.K. Slider!

[@Sinistar1983]

Man, I want me a real amiga just so I could see this running on the real deal

[@horstboss7855]

This looks really amazing and shows the passion for the system. :) I wonder, would (pro logic) encoded surround sound in the stereo signal be possible? That would be so scary - and perfect. =)

[@Pracedru]

Wouldn't it be possible to use the copper on the amiga to simulate more collers by making the copper interlace the horizontal pixels thereby blending 2 colors into a new mixed color?

[@johntsakiris3717]

It's possible but not very useful from an art perspective as OCS has already a pretty decent palette range. There's also the question of how taxing this would be (changing the palette every single frame is not 100% cost free) or if this will achieve the trick indeed, given the game runs at variable frame rates (and not a constant 50fps f.e.).

[@KKAltair]

It is possible, but I'm not sure if it's required at this point. John and Dennis make excellent work at choosing the palettes and using them to the fullest that I don't personally feel the need to do so, and introducing dithering without any solid reason to do so isn't worth it.

[@georgeluyckx1437]

Impressive work , only miss some fast paced music like in Unreal Tournament in the background. That would really tilt it to a new level.

[@greenknight9000]

I wonder how many of Doom's maps could be ported into this engine, maybe using the Jaguar versions of the maps would run better, and would also be an accurate design choice for that time period

[@andrewvato491]

:D

[@RussDnB]

Wonderful work. Do you have any update videos planned?

[@Samo7900]

As far as audio is concerned, it would be possible to use an audio format compatible with the original format of Doom?

[@johntsakiris3717]

If by audio you mean music then no. Doom's music is midi based and every machine Dread runs (or is planned to run on) has it's own unique specs in regards to audio.

[@KKAltair]

If I made my own MIDI player, then probably it could be converted. But Amiga is far more capable than playing General MIDI songs and I will try to push it to the fullest, so expect completely custom music format and tools. :)

[@Samo7900]

Certainly yes, just I thought it would be nice to have layer of compatibility with the special midi format used by the Doom music, so that in the future any modders could eventually easly adapt them for Dreads

[@s_t_s4846]

You keep mentioning the Amiga but we all know that the game runs on ATARI ST as well. I guess that maps made by the community can run on both platforms, right?

[@KKAltair]

Not really right now. That is, I can compile them into 1-map executables, but I didn't get to the point of handling the filesystem on Atari ST yet, so it can't load custom maps dynamically.

[@SylkaChan]

Are you still making it?

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

Kryzstof, just a idea, on ST you can use MIDI as serial communication networking similar to Apple Talk. MIDI has higher baudrate then RS232 on ST, so maybe more computers could play together. For reference see game MIDI Maze. Im also thinking, since there is no music on Amiga, why not add MIDI support, MIDI music is "cheap" and now days plenty of people do have MT32 like players...

[@francoisdebber6256]

It is plainly awesome 😀😀😀 !!! Is there any pointer on how you does texturing so fast on Amiga 500? I watched your videos, the screen is only 160x100 (with 2x2 pixel) + the hand/weapon is a sprite but I'd really like to understand how texturing can be so fast

[@tosgem]

I would love to know this also. The ST has had some decent FPS games, including Wolf3d in around 2002, because it had a chunky to planar conversion routine (C2P) which uses the MOVE.P instruction (I believe!) in a way that Amiga hardware could not do. The discussion for years was how to do C2P on the Amiga with blitter and/or Copper. Clearly they figured out some C2P technique

[@djaccount5458]

Shotgun wyglada marnie, psuje caly odbior grafiki

[@mgavinrc]

Hi. For some m variety how about * monsters sometimes turning on each other, * jumping down from higher platforms on you, and * hiding, but still shooting, from behind small barrels ..

[@yogers1]

How many frames on The A500 mini?

[@KKAltair]

Probably the same performance, assuming it's running WinUAE. You'll have to connect keyboard and mouse, though.

[@retro__exe]

Można tę grę gdzieś pobrać? Chciałem nagrać o niej materiał.

[@KKAltair]

Binarki WIP na Patreonie - myślałem że wręcz za dużo o tym mówiłem w tym video. :) W razie czego jest jeszcze pobliczne demo (link pod poprzednim video).

[@TheTurnipKing]

Who would win in a fight, Dreadguy or Gloomguy?

[@JohnnyWednesday]

Do you have tools for converting doom maps to dread maps? it's possible to construct a quake 1 style BSP tree from a doom map with some care - from there you could decompose it into a more dread friendly dataset?

[@KKAltair]

I'm already using WAD as input format for the maps, and distance units are similar. On the other hand, nothing else matches: texture names, line/sector actions, thing IDs are all different.

[@JohnnyWednesday]

@@KKAltair - oh absolutely, it's certainly not a case of a 1:1 conversion - from my perspective I have a high level engine and a map format can take quake 1,2,3 structures and I have a doom WAD map plugin that will reconstruct elements of the BSP tree that allow for the doom map to be represented in that quake-like structure - so a similar concept in the dread map editor would see the 'compatible' stuff be exported, while the incompatible stuff is optionally represented in the editor as an aid in map reconstruction etc etc

[@JohnnyWednesday]

​@@KKAltair - Does dread have a similar system to doom that lets it construct textures from texture atlas patches? if not - the editor could do this work of constructing doom textures and then rescaling/resampling them for representation in dread - rather than dread itself having to support doom features. Similar to how John Carmack put the grunt of the Rage engine into the megatexture compilation? the dread editor could have similar 'smart' decimation of doom maps to make a version of them playable.

[@JohnnyWednesday]

@@KKAltair - I certainly think that the geometry of a doom map, while not optimal for performance on an amiga? would be convertible - and a lot of the right textures could be put in the right places - even if it then requires manual work to get things looking nice. certainly a doom map could be 'imported' into the dread editor as a 'best fit' and then be manually edited from there - if you could do the texture reconstruction/conversion legwork? I'm sure map makers would be happy to then fix up maps as a showcase etc etc

[@KKAltair]

​@@JohnnyWednesday The ability to construct textures from patches is planned. :) But at this point, textures are just part of map data (like in Quake), so each map can roll its own. They usually take about 64k-80k uncompressed, so it's not a huge deal.

[@nangld]

Sega Genesis port?

[@johntsakiris3717]

It might happen eventually ;)

[@KKAltair]

I would love to! :) But at this point the code is too dirty, does not have clean RAM/ROM separation and uses a bit of self-modifying code. Also I dread (pun intended) the idea of fitting in 64k RAM (not counting VRAM). :) But I would love to try, anyway - once the code base gets most features in and is stable enough.

[@moarif9139]

this is witch craft

[@4kdemoscene]

I wish I bought a PAL Amiga 1200 off eBay 4 years ago… I guess they are getting extremely rare?

[@valenrn8657]

In early 2020, I bought my Amiga 1200 (with Rev 1D1 motherboard) as "sold for parts" from eBay since the seller found it in the roof attic. The seller thought A1200's "drive clicking" was a faulty machine.

[@4kdemoscene]

@@valenrn8657 Hmm... good idea... Buy one and repair it? I can do that. lol I didn't think about that. Thanks man. I love repairing computers.

[@valenrn8657]

@@4kdemoscene It was the seller being ignorant about Amigas. The "drive clicking" is associated with hard disk drive failure.

[@4kdemoscene]

@@valenrn8657 Exactly! lol

[@valenrn8657]

@@4kdemoscene FYI, Amiga 500 can be enhanced with PiStorm+Pi 3a+Emu68K (with more than 800 MIPS) that also includes P96 RTG (via Broadcom VideoCore IV iGPU). My 1989-era Amiga 500 Rev 6A with PiStorm+Pi 3a+Emu68 blows away my Amiga 1200 with TF1260 (68060 Rev 1 @ 62.5 Mhz) i.e. it's like a high clock speed Pentium II vs early Pentium 60. I used Pi 3a to update the firmware for TF1260.

[@tosgem]

Did you figure out some new Amiga C2P technique to nake this project possible?

[@johntsakiris3717]

Blitter based C2P ;)

[@jodygalcano6958]

p͎r͎o͎m͎o͎s͎m͎