Drinker's Chasers - Did The Rock Interfere In Shazam 2?

[@aidanlynn]

We haven’t just lost movie stars, we’ve also lost real voice actors. A voice actor used to be an actual role but for the last 20 years it’s been “famous person do voice”.

[@chasehedges6775]

Good point, sadly

[@chasehedges6775]

It’s also being done with computers and digital voice editing now.

[@strategery101]

The "rock"'s credibility has sunk like a rock

[@kevindavid7149]

The rock is just as bad a stephen cole bert

[@TanisC]

Spot on!

[@davidsnow7983]

The Rock knows that if Shazam and Black Adam ever meet in a movie Shazam will have to win because he’s the hero, and the Rock’s ego will never allow him to lose to Zachary Levi.

[@Ilyak1986]

That's not just ego. That's also professional reputation. Losing on the big screen = bad look.

[@positiveecho326]

@@Ilyak1986 Maybe in a wrestling match (not even then) but not in a scripted movie chock-full of CGI. What looks bad is The Rock not being able to a) draw a crowd b) act as someone besides himself c) be a team player. Villains are great roles to have. It’s really the villain that makes the movie. He should count himself lucky to have a large role where he gets the crap spectacularly beat out of him. Levi, is a pretty decent actor too. Why take the part in the first place if you don’t want to play ball?

[@kingtiger3390]

​@@positiveecho326Do you really believe they could make Black Adam loose an actual fight in a serious, dignified way? Me neither.

[@positiveecho326]

@@kingtiger3390 Why not? Y’all act like Shazam is going to beat him senseless with a rubber chicken, or something. The fight in the first movie was anything but silly. What would probably happen is Black Adam would beat the crap out of SHAZAM until the end when SHAZAM discovers the “power was always within him” or “the magic of friendship” (or whatever) which allows him to narrowly defeat BA. It’s not rocket science.

[@TheWarmachine375]

Black Adam was the result of someone who lets power of the Wizard Shazam get into his head and use them for his own selfish needs.

[@carlrood4457]

I've been saying this for years. The Rock's biggest movies are all ensemble movies. His movies where he's the sole main character don't do that well.

[@chasehedges6775]

Scorpion King 2002 was pretty good.

[@chasehedges6775]

The Rundown was great and that had Christopher Walken in it.

[@reservationatdorsias3215]

He was so good in Fast Five, I wish characters stayed within the scope of that iteration of the character.

[@Sorain1]

@@jaybeexitysix Yeah. He works great as a straight man to a comedic role. Plus Doom's issue was the branding. If you'd just slapped an original title on it? It would have been a moderate success instead of a brutal failure.

[@kyriss12]

@@chasehedges6775 Wasn’t really that good, and completely disregarded the back story established in mummy 2. In fact I’m halfway convinced the only reason it exists is because the rock was pissed off he had such a small non speaking role as a cgi villain. It’s kinda sad that scorpion king got more movies than the mummy.

[@Weazel1]

As the great Michael Caine once said, “I’ve not seen the movie, but I have seen the house it paid for and it’s magnificent.”

[@johnmcnamara8741]

I love that quote, best thing to come out of Jaws: The Revenge

[@mijaba71]

Seeing that quote got me wondering about the exact wording. It's in kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoGXdH-oeJergtk What he said is just a little different: "I haven't seen it, but I've seen the house it bought my mother, and it's marvelous." I have never heard before that he bought the house for his mother, but it makes it even better for me.

[@everythingisawesome2903]

Interviewer: "So what made you playing the role of Han Solo again?" Harrison Ford: "I got paid huge money."

[@taudvore259]

Sigorney Weaver too. “So what convinced you to do Alien 4?” “They just drove up to my house with a dump truck full of money.”

[@bob1986]

A little different here, as Rock wasn't seemingly in this entirely for money but because he geniunely wanted to be part of a Superhero universe and thought he could steer the direction of DC films. It didn't work, but if it was just for a payout he'd probably have just let Zach Levi beat him up on screen and take his millions.

[@patfer1189]

I'd argue a large chunk of the Black Adam audience were more interested in seeing Brosnan as Dr. Fate than Johnson as Black Adam.

[@phoebea]

I was one of those people. I'm happy that someone else paid for the ticket.

[@ascended1924]

@@phoebea Me too. I watched it online tho.

[@corey7219]

I was one of those people

[@amarawinchester963]

You got me. That’s the reason I watched the movie lol

[@ravendarklawgaming197]

That's the only reason I watched it, everything about Black Adam was good, except Black Adam. Should've just given us a Justice Society movie. 🤣

[@chalzen1012]

Social media has killed the movie star... knowing what these adult pretenders think made people realize they aren't really the people we thought they were

[@lennyztrobos8678]

If that means people finally stop idolizing weirdos who can't be trusted to speak on camera without a handler, then I guess its a good thing.

[@chalzen1012]

@@lennyztrobos8678 every cloud... I guess lol

[@Willowy13]

True.

[@fearhungerpride]

True about social media overexposing the actors and crew; what I would add is that social media, as a medium, divided people's attention. So back in the 90s/early 2000s, almost everyone watched tv. Now there are so many distractions you have a much divided audience, which forces the franchise owners to pander to the fanatics and big spenders. Mass audiences are yesterday.

[@fearlesseye5896]

@@lennyztrobos8678 Couldn’t have said better. Although I would like to add, actors are humans too. They could be an asshole or a good person, we can never know. So don’t worship strangers based on their performance, just enjoyed or be inspired by it. If they’re a good person (Keanu and Henry) celebrate it, but bowing down to actors who are just good on screen behind a corporation is idiotic.

[@collegerebel]

Oh man, when Drinker said that The Rock was the closest we have to a movie star, that felt like a gut punch from how true it is.

[@chasehedges6775]

👍👍. Rock is an average celebrity

[@strategery101]

It’s very true. We have sunk so so far that bald Dwayne Johnson is the closest we have.

[@chasehedges6775]

Keanu Reeves and Tom Cruise are still awesome

[@strategery101]

Chase. They have done this to themselves. They have cut themselves off from half the country on purpose. C list stars from 30 years ago were bigger than so called A listers today

[@Bayard1503]

Yeah, The Rock, Tom Cruise, Leonardo di Caprio... that's about it, there are no actors that actually bring in viewers no matter the movie.

[@maisdetonado]

I think Henry Cavill could be a movie star, but Hollywood is against him, for some reason...

[@chasehedges6775]

He deserves better

[@KABLAMMATS]

he's too masculine for their agenda, soo

[@Desmondbrown73]

He’s a white masculine male who is intelligent, of course they hate him

[@phuqutoob-pf7pb]

He keeps getting roles swept from him because Rock's wife is in charge of casting

[@mitchconner4057]

He's probably not a paedo

[@haggishighways]

Helen Mirren gets a well deserved pass. A family friend's father is her driver in the UK. She thought he was fantastic due to his historical knowledge as he would basically give a story on each and every monument they would go passed. She ended up gifting him quite a lot of capital to start his own premium driving business. Took no stake in the company. Just wanted to do a nice thing. So she is a good person at heart

[@poocrayon4588]

She also looked super hot naked when she was young

[@chasehedges6775]

Helen Mirren is a treasure

[@uphilliceskater]

Outstanding actress and legendary hottie.

[@haggishighways]

@Chase Hedges67 She somehow knows Post Malone and is his driver in the UK now too!

[@ivanharlokin]

People do go to see Tarantino films specifically because he is the director. Star vehicle films are nothing to mourn, what is lacking is good writing.

[@optiondezzo1513]

Tarantino's PR went into overdrive after Harvey's story went mainstream. They were close. Guy has skeletons in his closet. those paying attention have caught some glimpses and its only a matter of time it all gets out.

[@ivanharlokin]

@@optiondezzo1513 Cool, but irrelevant to what I said. People currently go to see Tarantino films because he is the director - that is what was being discussed.

[@Squirleypoo]

A great actor can take good writing and make something fantastic. A great actor can't take bad writing and make anything good.

[@sillyweebanimeisforkids3413]

Social media did more to destroy star actors than anything else. Social/youtube celebs are arguably bigger than actual celebs these days

[@strategery101]

Nobody today is as big as stars from yesterday . Take the biggest music stars today like lady Gaga. They are around 5% as big as stars like the Beatles or Elvis were.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

That is true, but not in the way you think. People had to watch television and read magazines to know who stars are. Social media did not create a different kind of star, but it massively increased the competition. There is no one guy everyone knows anymore.

[@strategery101]

The irony is that you would think an Increase in competition would create a higher quality product. But the products we have today are far inferior. Strange

[@J_B17]

It’s not that they’ve fully replaced traditional stars, it’s just access to social media means there is an influx of sooooo many different famous people that the “celebrity” market is saturated

[@sillyweebanimeisforkids3413]

@@J_B17 yeah that's what I mean. I should have worded it better. The very top social stars aren't as popular as the top actual stars....but there's so many streamers, podcasters, etc, we don't have to follow the celebs every movements to be entertained

[@TK_1340]

Nowadays we have actors acting like they're righteous activists, yet they don't have any rights to tell everyone else to do better. 🙄 Double standards...

[@X525Crossfire]

The state of DC films breaks my heart - DC superheroes were my childhood. Sure, the X-Men and Spider-Man were there, but they were always second fiddle to BTAS, Static Shock, and Justice League. And then, in my teens/early 20s, we got the Nolan Batman movies. Christopher Nolan was ultimately a mixed bag - he delivered two amazing Batman movies with a mixed bag of an ending. At the same time his refusal to have his movies coexist with other DC heroes got in the way of a DCEU that could have followed the example of the DCAU and grown organically, rather than constantly trip over itself chasing the MCU.

[@RHBR01]

Nailed it in one. They've tried to rush the DC cinematic universe so hard. I think I remember Ben Affleck saying something (roughly) to the effect of "the best things about these characters is that everyone knows who they are, so you don't have to waste time explaining their backstories". And it's like... No. No, you can't take for granted that people know who these characters are, you still absolutely NEED to develop them as characters.

[@AkamoriRivals]

I am a fan of the Rock, and had fun with Black Adam. But the best thing about that entire movie was Pierce Brosnan as Dr. Fate, he was really the best thing on screen at any given time, and I would absolutely love to see him play that role again. He was incredible.

[@KaiserShield]

The first act was abysmal admittedly but everything else was decent-good until the climax.

[@topfire6009]

​@Diomedes it's not the best but it was a solid movie. To be honest, it helps most superhero movies around this time aren't that good 😅

[@awesomehpt8938]

Guess they got themselves caught between a “rock” and a hard place.

[@blackdynamite_5470]

Boooo

[@sexistspaghettios]

Dad joke approved 👍 One could say they're sinking like a "rock."

[@TanisC]

😅😅

[@Arthas30000]

HA! 😆

[@freespeechchampsusanwojcic2528]

BA DUM TSSSS

[@dominick951]

Anthony Mackie said the death of the movie star thing years ago. He knew what was happening even then

[@chasehedges6775]

Also Anthony Mackie: *Makes the mediocre Falcon and The Winter Soldier*

[@grizzlygrimgaming1530]

@@chasehedges6775 starred in*

[@dominick951]

@@chasehedges6775 yea he's under contract and it's his job. He didn't write it. What you think actors think everything they are in is good? No but everyone has bills, under contract etc

[@chasehedges6775]

@@dominick951 Understandable but it was still a mediocre series

[@dominick951]

@@chasehedges6775 mediocre? I think its terrible. John Walker did nothing wrong

[@bobdobalina8910]

What I find most interesting is that these rumours, innuendos and accusations only help to solidify the things that were being said about him in the Fast and Furious Franchise.

[@Gilroysmash86]

100%. at the time I thought it was Diesel throwing a tantrum that he wasn't the main star. Now though, I'm looking at it differently

[@delpegoes]

Keanu Reeves is the only actor I will always go see in theaters :)

[@scottbarkley496]

Is that why 95% of his movies bomb at the box office ? Lol

[@delpegoes]

@@scottbarkley496 well I can’t buy enough tickets to make them all not bomb :)

[@amarawinchester963]

Haha I thought I wrote this comment cause I keep writing the same thing everywhere 😂😂😂 who are you????

[@AlphaCentauri24]

Was

[@zfesilva4605]

I used to give props to Liam Neeson in that regard, but ... ... ...

[@name-vi6fs]

Gary's comment on KZbin enthusiasm is spot on. Forget Twitter or any other social media. It's all about people watching trailers and upvoting them. Reaction videos, etc.

[@rogerborg]

What I see here are three actors - Johnson, Levi and Cavill - who actually seem to give a toss about their characters, and the audience. They may not get it right - and Johnson didn't - but as Cavill says, that's passion, not toxicity. Bear in mind that Johnson actively pitched Black Adam for a decade, and that gave us a movie that wouldn't otherwise have been made. C for content, but A for effort.

[@everythingisawesome2903]

If Johnson actually cared about characters and the audience, he should have cameod in Shazam, be a villain in Shazam 2 or let Shazam in his movie but the guy wants nothing to do with Shazam, when he is the direct villain of Shazam and shoving Superman in his movie for no reason and just because he fought for 10-12 years for the movie to get made, doesn't mean he can become bigger than the movie, he need to listen to other people too like director and writers but he didn't cause he want to control the whole thing and make it all about himself and as a result, the movie flopped and he got fired from DC.

[@Ilyak1986]

@@everythingisawesome2903 who *gives a damn* about some random teenage bozo? What *was* supposed to happen was the idea of The Rock squaring off against Henry Cavill in a sporting throwdown, with the audience being the winners. Some random wannabe superman doofus knockoff in red spandex feels like such a third wheel. Remember, most of the people out there in TVland aren't super well-versed in the origins of Black Adam and his relationships with Shazam. It just seems like the release time of the movie was a case of superhero fatigue, that's all--and The Rock as an anti-hero would be best served by a larger-than-life opponent, not some random teenage shonen bozo.

[@masterchiefwasdonedirty9705]

@@Ilyak1986 That would have bombed too. People largely think the Rock is overexposed and is in too many movies

[@rogerborg]

@@everythingisawesome2903 Note that I was careful to say "their character", singular.

[@smharris23]

His personal life aside, but Tom Cruise is pretty much our last true movie star. He genuinely cares about entertaining the audience and theater reactions. Top Gun: Maverick and the MI franchise is proof.

[@bob1986]

He also knows how to keep his mouth shut on Social Media and about his believes and activism. This is really the important thing. He quickly learned to shut the hell up about Scientology after a year or two of being seen as a weirdo because of him constantly pushing it so he just realized nobody cared and stopped promoting it and talking about it and people quickly let it go. If Tom had been all over Twitter for years and years constantly tweeting about it and picking fights with anyone who badmouthed it people would be just as sick of him.

[@DanJuega]

Cough cough The mummy

[@bobdole4432]

@@DanJuega every actor has had a bad film..

[@melew25]

Can’t believe they didn’t mention DiCaprio, although he isn’t making as many movies nowadays. People definitely give extra attention to movies he is in.

[@scottbarkley496]

Don't LOOK up SUCKED

[@ronniejdio9411]

Leo has more flops than hits

[@optiondezzo1513]

@@ronniejdio9411 yap. a lot of his movies are overrated and propped up by ''critics''.

[@captainmobius5823]

Johnny Depp called him Mr Potato Head.🤣

[@kdizzle901]

@@ronniejdio9411 name Leo’s flops…..I’ll wait……his films have grossed over 7.5 billion dollars, he has an Oscar three golden globes and a BAFTA, he has been placed 8 times in Forbes annual highest paid actors and has worked with Scorsese as many times as Deniro almost……has worked with Nolan in his highest grossing movie to date no doubt cuz he made top billing, worked with Spielberg that wasn’t a flop, worked with Clint Eastwood even J. Edgar wasn’t a flop….he is in the third highest grossing film of all time, he turned down Spider-Man and is one of the only actors not to hop on the superhero bandwagon……but yea he’s a flop

[@christophertaylor9100]

I think the Rock's interference was minimal, he just didn't want Black Adam to be the villain in the next Shazam film. Tom Cruise is the last movie star. People will go to see his movies because of him.

[@braynjohnson4302]

To be fair I’ll go to see Tom Cruise because I know he’ll do some sick stunts. It’s not his amazing acting.

[@zydhas2838]

​@@braynjohnson4302 Movie stars aren't necessarily the best dramatic actors, but they're great actors just because of how well they embody their characters on screen. Most of the big stars of history didn't necessarily have that much variety, but all had powerul gravitas and charisma.

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

Eh Maybe I saw a Mission Impossible somewhere along the way, but if not Last Samurai was the last film of his I saw until Top Gun 2.

[@braynjohnson4302]

@@zydhas2838 Not really sure Cruise has either of those things. He just does cool stunts.

[@premjanipati1194]

@@braynjohnson4302 dude, saying Tom fricking Cruise doesnt have charisma or gravitas is up there with saying The Rock saved the DCEU. Its just false.

[@poorlydunbarvideos1472]

DRINKER! Please PLEASE review Daisy Jones and the Six. The substance abuse and inconsistent quality would make for good critical material. Its also an interesting use of a genre as well as a book-adaptation. Love to hear your thoughts

[@calvinfolan1736]

I've said it once and I'll say it until I die, I'm a big wrestling fan. The Rock was far better as a wrestler than he is as an actor.

[@chasehedges6775]

He’s an ok actor

[@danjonmills]

Yep.

[@poocrayon4588]

You know it. Actually the Rock would have been better as a movie star had he been more of a dick like his wrestling character (but not so over the top obviously), it always feels like he's too phoney and trying to do a bit of an Arnold impersination in his nice guy/family film star act. That Rock could have played the Kurt Russel type roles like Big trouble in little china or Escape from new york - the jerk action star.

[@rdu239]

Same with Batista, he is a good wrestler (even though he is a blatant HHH ass kisser) at his peak, but as an actor he is not good, his character Drax is a total meathead, that everybody is expected to laugh when he speaks

[@danjonmills]

@RDU23 what a shit analysis of Dave Bautista: Firstly, he didn't kiss hhh's ass at all. They were good friends, he learnt a lot from H and earned his wwe push. Second, he's gotten good reviews for his acting: praised for his brief turns in Blade Runner 2049, Dune, and has great reviews for the lead role of Knock at the cabin. Thirdly, Drax isn't a meathead, per se, it's just his race of people don't understand irony and are very literal people. You're clueless.

[@RiseOfAquarius]

Tom Cruise's Mummy movie was the beginning and end of the Universal cinematic universe.

[@donmynack]

Wasn't it the only film in it?

@@donmynack Dracula Untold was also part of it.

[@chasehedges6775]

@ Dracula Untold was pretty good, honestly

@Chase Hedges67 I liked it too.

[@scottbarkley496]

And still made 410+ million LMAO

[@looinrims]

Just gonna quote: “The Rock and Henry Cavill have the same agent who’s the Rock’s wife”

[@danjonmills]

Ex wife, mother of his first daughter.

[@Ilyak1986]

And it sounds like they'd make amazing movies together.

[@Chicken_Little_Syndrome]

Yea, The Rock forced them to use a terrible script for Shazam II. It was his idea for them to avoid using Mr. Mind.

[@Noodles.Doodles]

Damn. I'd been looking forward to a Shazam sequel for years, largely because of the post-credits Mister Mind scene.

[@dmhendricks]

I think Brad Pitt is a movie star. He draws people. Johnny Depp too (once the Amber Turd dust settles).

[@jamesg8175]

Babylon?

[@scottbarkley496]

Johnny Depp would rather snort cocaine

[@ebransc09]

Only Cruise & Bullock

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

Please. Pitt is a hasbeen.

[@bob1986]

Pitt's last film flopped, which kind of signals his draw is over.

[@miketeeveedub5779]

The only thing bigger then the DC Extended Universe is The Rock's ego. He wanted top star billing without sharing any of the glory. Instead he wound up being top crab in the DCEU bucket. Maybe bottom of the barrel is a more fitting analogy.

[@strategery101]

I used to like him 20 years ago. He is the embodiment of a sellout

[@everythingisawesome2903]

The guy ruins every franchise he touches and wants to make his all about himself.

[@sita9071]

Nah, that'd be Gwen Stefani.

[@vb2806]

I liked him when he was still wrestling. After that it really exposed him as not such a great actor or person. He constantly lies about his nutrition and training, he distances himself away even from friends when he sees his image could be hurt and he preaches like he is some sort of messiah

[@saisameer8771]

This is kind of the problem with bringing in big name movie stars for something like a cinematic universe. Big actors often have giant egos and will always try to change things to fit their image. The mcu itself didn't start with big name actors. Mostly newbies and at the time washed out actors like Robert Downey JR.

[@stsolomon618]

You can also have a big star in a movie and the movie flops. Also, it's the movie and the good story that makes the star and I also believe that Social Media has harmed the movie star persona.

[@Blahblahblahninsense]

Guys I gotta share a first world problem I have. Last year I inherited like... 12000 old marvel and DC comics from between 1988-1996. As I've gone through and priced everything out, and examined pricing trends for certain issues... Then cross referenced that with the MCU release dates over the last decade... I've come to two conclusions. One... I really wish I had gotten my hands on these at the beginning of the MCU... Two... The poor performance of the late stage of both the DCU and MCU, have done a lot to tank the value of a lot of comics. Shazam and Hawkeye comics are NOT increasing in value upon movie release like say, iron man comics or the infinity gauntlet saga did. These new movies aren't increasing demand for the source material... That's very telling. It's a real shame too, because I have a hunch it's at least partly responsible for Western comics losing out so badly to eastern manga in the last few years. The western comics industry needs new fans, new blood, new money... But none of today's kids are seeing these movies and wanting to go out and buy the comics because of it. There's a lot to talk about regarding the actual comic industry leaning so hard into wokeism, and pushing away prospective and long time fans alike as a result all on its own... But even the classic issues where that isn't an issue are barely keeping up with inflation... That's the movies fault 100% Damnit man... If the MCU was still as good as it was 6-8 years ago... I'd be sitting on literal gold... As it is... I got silver so I'm good but... Damn.

[@taudvore259]

I think Nick Cage deserves an honourable mention. A large reason I’m going to see Renfield is because I want to see Cage as Dracula.

[@RanMouri82]

I was intrigued by the premise of Renfield, and would like to see Cage as Dracula, but then the trailer led with an anti-Catholic joke, and I was out.

[@DanJuega]

@@RanMouri82 Wow. It’s that easy to get your panties in a twist?

[@englishatheart]

Stop liking bad actors. That man should not have an acting career.

[@taudvore259]

I acknowledge your opinion, but respectfully disagree, random internet stranger. I like his acting style and will continue to do so, even if people I have never met order me not to.

[@DanJuega]

@@englishatheart Sometimes actors don't have to be good, just entertaining.

[@garethbaker7346]

I think Vin Diesel was on the verge of being the movie star around the Riddick films. I believe that probably came into play with his disagreements with the Rock in the fast and furious. You can't have two main men and I think Vin thought the Rock was stepping on his toes.

[@chasehedges6775]

Vin Diesel was good in The Pacifier(2005). That was a wholesome Disney movie

[@chasehedges6775]

It still blows my mind that he voiced the Iron Giant. Still an animated classic

[@garethbaker7346]

@@chasehedges6775 Yes he was also in Saving Private Ryan as well. He was becoming huge but for me became a bit stale in the endless F&F films.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@garethbaker7346👍

[@DonHavjuan]

Nobody in the Fast and Farcical is a movie star. That's why they're in it.

[@playthehighnote1122]

The Rock brought backstage wrestling politics with him to Hollywood.

[@jonnymelamet8029]

A point you made about Shazam 2 beig inoffensive could be the reason why DC is releasing these movies. They will edit the movies so none are offensive and build momentum by not showing "The Message".

[@GIBBO4182]

I’d go and see a Tarantino, or Guy Ritchie movie on name alone…I know they’re directors, not an actors, but they’re still a draw imo…

[@TanisC]

Agreed! Let me see that it's a Tarantino movie, and I'm automatically on board.

[@ExploderMaster18]

You're right. I am for example always down for the new Rian Johnson flick.

[@GigglingStoners]

Yup

[@helenablavatsky9136]

Definitely agree...it's too bad Tarantino keeps saying he's retiring.

[@captainmobius5823]

Will Guy Ritchie make Sherlock Holmes 3 ? 🤔

[@navtektv]

There's an interview I watched with CM Punk, an old interview where he talks about the Rock and how he went to set up their match and while the card is fifty percent Punk vs Fifty Percent Rock, when went to talk to Rock, Rocks people had already written up Punks promos for him. Punk said that this isn't the way he did things and pushed back a little to get Rock to actually sit down across from him to talk and work out their match. It seems from that interview, mind it comes from Punk so take that with whatever amount of skepticism you want to take it with, that Rocks gotten used to getting his way around the set. He draws the lines and dictates the terms because his star power allows him that access. If people don't push back on him, him and his 'people' will probably run roughshod over the entire production, like they seemingly did with Black Adam.

[@viperrecords3288]

Black Adam was better than Shazam both of them lol

[@ShootEvrythg]

You can tell The Rock was a total diva while making Black Adam because all he does during the whole movie is hang from a wire on a blue screen. It required no physical effort from him at all.

[@chasehedges6775]

Compare that to Scorpion King 2002 or his older movies where he did his own stunts

[@starfall179]

Tbh, I think such problems relies more on the director than the actor themselves. These days, everyone prefers to use cgi than to create their own environment/setting for the movie.

[@zacharykim295]

@@starfall179 probably cheaper as well eh?

[@viperrecords3288]

The movie was still better than Shazam 😂

[@PoopaChallupa]

Keanu Reeves and Tom Cruise are our last Movie Stars.

[@andrewharris4094]

Christian Bale?

[@tommo9757]

I would agree about Tom. He's head and shoulders "star material" over anyone else. However whilst I like Keanu, I would have put him at the same level as Brad Pitt and Matt Damon - instantly recognisable but not necessarily a huge box office draw

[@danfors1333]

@@tommo9757 Tom and Keanu are action stars because they actually are quite legit and capable of doing their own stunts. Pitt and Matt Damon, not so much.

[@elijaharvinger1178]

Don't be afraid to add some color to your palette. There's Denzel Washington Idris Elba and Samuel Jackson. All certified movie stars. People literally pay to see Sam Jackson say MFer , Idris is the new Wesley Snipes, black action hero sex symbol and Denzel is an Oscar threat anytime he's in a film. C'mon guys don't be afraid to get WoKe. Lol. Jk.

[@greggibson33]

SMH.... Weak take by Connors.... "We used watch movies because of the stars like Stallone or Arnold not just for the IP. Only Cruise is close to that today but his movies are hit and miss"... Hit and miss? Like Stallone and Arnold didn't have stinkers?? WTF?

[@GoddessOfWhim2003]

Edgar Wright is a draw for me, i'll see anything he writes and directs

[@chasehedges6775]

Does he have anything coming up?

[@GoddessOfWhim2003]

​@@chasehedges6775 not since Last Night in Soho

[@TK_1340]

​@@chasehedges6775 Yes. A project called "The Chain". A novel adaptation.

[@amarawinchester963]

The moment Celebes went on social media and started opening their mouth, people started hating them….no one hates Keanu because he doesn’t do bla bla bla …. He uses his brain when he speaks

[@elijaharvinger1178]

So the moment celebrities started acting like regular people with opinions people started hating them? Sad society we live in where a bunch of random people can come in this app and say whatever is on their mind but if you make movies or sing or bounce a ball you're a creep for doing the same thing.

[@bob1986]

@@elijaharvinger1178 To be honest, yes. Part of celeb culture was the mystique and mystery of them being these larger than life untouchable people who lived in a different world. And them being on social media all the time tweeting about nonsense and political takes like any other random idiot kind of killed the illusion they had going. Celebs weren't supposed to act like "regular people"

[@amarawinchester963]

@@bob1986 exactly. Thanx for understanding. I was obsessed with Buffy, charmed and Lois and Clark in the 90s in another country. I didn’t have internet. So I was collecting their picture and interviews from magazines. I had binders lol. The point is when I got a chance to watch their interview or see bloopers a little later in life I was so curious and amazed all the time, I was even watching award shows just to see them and see how they act in real life. But then internet got bigger and I celebs started showing their faces and personality more and I started disliking them. They are no longer a mystery, mostly they are dumb people.

[@craigleverenz]

I had a feeling Black Adam would flop before it even came out. Not only are audiences suffering from "superhero fatigue" but they're also suffering from "The Rock fatigue".

[@ericvulgate]

It's cause Producer Guy is terrified of Dwayne Johnson.

[@TheElbowMerchant]

Dude, yes! Such a great Pitch Meeting! Ryan George is brilliant, and I often think his sketches are hilariously similar to how movie studios actually operate.

[@Bman-1970]

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

[@PACIFICBboy]

To be fair I can’t imagine the Rock’s Black Adam going against the movie version of Shazam lol

[@winwhite1915]

Thank u for giving bite sized chunks of the convo

[@campfund8724]

It would have been nice if they brought Shazam up to his level in regards to maturity. The Rock definitely wanted more serious tones for what he viewed as his hero. Keeping Shazam out makes some sense since in they didn’t put in leg work to make the Shazam story hold more weight. The two are a bit like oil and water in the way they were approached. I would love to see Zachary Levi sink into a more serious role as Shazam as well.

[@janeenschultz8502]

My main exposure to Shazam was the animated series Justice League Unlimited. He was serious and naive, but also kind and trying his hardest to be the hero people needed.

[@HesGotaGun505]

The Rock can do good work, but using him as a singular attraction has consistently disappointed. Doom (2004)? Skyscraper? The Witch Mountain remake? It doesn’t help that Johnson has about as many credits as a traditional tough-guy as he does as an ironic tough guy (think “the quarterback”)

[@chasehedges6775]

Witch Mountain remake was pretty good

[@superjlk_9538]

We still have Tom Cruise, Chris Pratt, and Keanu Reeves. That’s about it for traditional movie stars

[@Sir_Osis]

I think Brad Pitt is probably still in that category.

[@superjlk_9538]

@@Sir_Osis kind of. I think he’s aged out of that role a bit. He could still headline movies like Bullet Train but he’s not the same guy who could play all his old roles again.

[@Sir_Osis]

@@superjlk_9538 I think he could still pull off the movie star role. He just won an academy award a couple years ago. But yeah, they’re definitely a dying breed.

[@elijaharvinger1178]

I see we're only looking for a certain " type" of movie star. Denzel Washington not a movie star? Samuel Jackson not a movie star? Idris Elba not a movie star?

[@Sir_Osis]

@@elijaharvinger1178 Lol He’s listing actors who have played the lead in big successful Hollywood productions recently. What’s the last big successful movie that Sam or Denzel was the lead in? And though Idris is a fine actor he’s definitely not in the category with Sam or Denzel. Race card denied sir. Nice try though 👍

[@mz610]

Not only is The Rock a meh actor a best, hes the SAME GUY IN LITERALLY EVERYTHING.....he even dresses he same in every single movie.

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

Henry Cavill could be a movie star, if Hollywood didn't hate his guts.

[@peteyd1984]

Henry is too masculine for modern Hollywood.

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

@@peteyd1984 and he actually LOVES the source material.

[@Clint52279]

Season 2, Ep 3. was as far as I got. I remember fast forwarding through it after about 20 minutes of boredom, just to see if The Witcher showed up... he does in like the last 5 minutes to give Ciri a pep talk or something. That was it for me! It turned out exactly how we feared.

[@eriknewton4656]

i would say keanu reeves is a star with his john wick movies

[@wrayday7149]

Unless The Rock went into the writers room and dropped the people's elbow on the writers... he didn't interfere with any writing that took place in Shazam 2. We are putting a ton of importance around post-credit scenes.... which highlights a huge Hollywood issue. You don't care about the movie you are watching now, you only want to see what comes next.

[@quintonchristie7149]

Did you deliberately leave out Keanu Reeves?

[@NeonNexusMatrix]

I mean, is it a problem we don't have traditional movie stars? I would say having less baseless cults of personality is a good thing. The reason today's actors aren't as "big" is that the social-media driven world, where everything is online and connected constantly, allows us to see the flaws in these famous people. So instead of mindlessly guzzling their press releases and obsessing over particular roles they play, we end up with a more nuanced picture overall. If the many "big stars" of yesteryear had as much scrutiny and ability to mess up they would be viewed in a similar light.

[@toybugcarl]

I was really impressed with Rocks performance in Jumanji. He’s strong in every movie and basically the same guy Every-time but in Jumanji he’s hilariously awkward strong. He’s so impressed yet trying to accept his skills now that he’s this beast in a video game was finally something different to see him portray and he did it right.

[@toh6261]

I love that the ringing endorsement for Shazam is that: It was boring, formulaic, and forgettable, BUT at least it didn't personally attack me.

[@blues01clue]

I would say that Tom Cruise is the last Superstar actor standing right now. You don't have to like the guys personal shit cause I don't. It doesn't affect me...or you. But the guy can make some great movies and sell it with his name for the most part. Not everytime(The Mummy), but most times.

[@danjonmills]

Keanu.

[@blues01clue]

@@danjonmills Ya know....that's true as well!!!

[@andregulluni1043]

This has nothing to do with this video :) Really interested in getting the Rambo prequel comic you've written (A new kind of war)... BUT... money is a bit tight right now. Any chance of just buying an electronic version of the comic when it comes out this summer?

[@michaelpipkin9942]

This story has been told, but it would have been great seeing Black Adam vs. Shazam and Soupy. Magic versus cold breath and laser eyes, backed by a damaged teen's imagination for the win. Or tie probably...

[@EGarrett01]

Shazam was always an awesome foe for Superman because Superman is weak against magic.

[@Nestor2099]

There's an animated movie with those 3 characters as the main pillars and from what I saw was a pretty good concept, Supes helped Billy a lot to face Adam.

[@michaelpipkin9942]

@@Nestor2099 I know. That's what I was referring to. It's like The Return of Black Adam or something.

[@campbellsoup93]

​@@EGarrett01 Vulnerable. Not weak.

[@EGarrett01]

@@campbellsoup93 The second definition of "weak" per google is "easily damaged." Superman is most definitely easily damaged by magic compared to normal forms of attack.

[@moneymikz]

The Rocks interference is already part of Pitch Meeting lore so it might as well have happened… Wowowow

[@PrimeTime789]

The Rock is definitely a movie star. "I'm going to see the new Rock movie" is 100 percent a phrase I have heard countless times

[@spiritsplice]

No, he is a manufactured attempt at a movie star. He is as fake as a Clinton apology.

[@dannynewton7547]

Does this get uploaded as a long form podcast on anything other than KZbin... I'd love to be able to listen while I work.

[@mikemoore4033]

Hollywood movies are legacy media now.

[@Vegetal69]

Which live was this taken from ? I can't figure it out

[@danoso0931]

DiCaprio also is a true movie star

[@Edelwolf783]

2023 - the year we praise movies for not being complete garbage.

[@chasehedges6775]

2023 has definitely been the year of garbage and mediocrities as well.

[@andyhamlett8814]

I would argue Keanu still delivering some box office draw with his name alone (ignoring the last Bill and Ted offering of course)

[@kirk1701]

Even though the third Bill & Ted film (and last Matrix film) were poorly executed, I'm sure people watched those films partly because they are fans of Keanu Reeves. At least that's how it was for me. And I still have yet to watch Bill & Ted 1 and 2, and even check out the animated series.

[@AlphaCentauri24]

The Rock thinking he can act is a biggest joke of hollywood today.

[@capnstems5026]

DC: Dying Currently

[@chasehedges6775]

Accurate description

[@anaisgohy3411]

But even then, James Gunn's new DCU is already DAO. The damage done to DC movies is immense and James' underwhelming "Chapter 1" isn't going to make it better. WB only has one shot left with DC movies and they need to get it right, not a lot of people are sticking around or will stick around for another reboot after the Gunnverse fails. Just the thought of having Henry back as Superman in a rebooted DCU would draw moviegoers back in. Follow that Superman movie with a great Batman movie and Wonder Woman (remastered) and boom. They should stick to the basics to gain their audience back (Superman: The Man of Steel, Batman: The Dark Knight, Wonder Woman (remastered), The Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman and end it with a Justice League movie). To clarify, I have no issues with James Gunn on a personal level and I love Guardians, however, making him head of DC was a mistake. He could have been a prominent player within DC and their more unique characters, but he should not spearhead it.

[@kingmentalityclips7021]

I'd say Leo and Ryan Gosling r still movie stars. Like I'm going to see whatever movie they're in

[@captainmobius5823]

I remember when Ryan Gosling was Young Hercules. 😁

[@amarawinchester963]

To me movie stars are Keanu Reeves, Tom Cruise and Ryan Reynolds. I see their names, I watch the movie. Don’t ask me about actresses. None will make me go to the theater!

[@kirk1701]

Keanu Reeves is a movie star, I think. People right now are going to see _John Wick 4_ not only as fans of the series, but as fans of Reeves. Too, the film is executed based on Reeves' strengths.

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

Lol Reeves is just John wick. Nothing else.

[@kirk1701]

@@dcmastermindfirst9418 lol....he's also Neo in one of the best films ever made....and Bill or Ted (I've only seen the third).

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

@joel1975 Lol no. He was neo. The last matrix film was trash. And the last bill and Ted movie was too. Therefore he's John wick.

[@kirk1701]

@@dcmastermindfirst9418 I don't give a sh!t about the last Matrix film. And thank you for repeating what I said that Reeves is Neo in one of the best films ever made, which you recall is the _first_ (not last) film in the _Matrix_ series. Not all Indiana Jones films are solid, yet Harrison Ford is still Indy. Not all Superman films are solid, yet Christopher Reeve is still Superman. Not all Star Wars films are solid, yet the aforementioned Ford is still Han Solo and Mark Hamill is still Skywalker. Also, just because the last Bill & Ted film was trash doesn't take away that series is what added to his popularity. Reeves is John Wick, Neo, and part of the Bill & Ted duo. Hence, my previous comment still stands.

[@premjanipati1194]

@@dcmastermindfirst9418 And guess why John Wick is still running? Because KEANU is John Wick. Your takes have to be the most deluded out there. Its not the films that are being talked about, its about stars. And Keanu, atleast right now, is a star. His name draws attention, not just a character he is playing, but him. The stars survive as stars in an audiences eyes even if the movie flopped because they are a star. And Keanu achieved that. John Wick ran because Keanu was playing him. recast John Wick with almost anyone else, I bet you it wont make a fraction of the anticipation it does right now.

[@gregbillings]

Helen Mirren was fantastic in Red and Red 2. She's awesome in 1923. I know she's aging but I'll give anything she is in watch

[@kenjackben]

Keanu Reeves is the closest thing we have to a movie star these days people will go see pretty much whatever he's in because he's in it

[@BLACKSTA361]

Good joke

[@AyumuNarumi75]

Yeah. Everybody went and watched Martxi 4, and can't wait for the sequel.

[@premjanipati1194]

@@AyumuNarumi75 you know. Many actually did on opening day, for the sole reason that it had Keanu Reeves. Like everyone knew Laurence Fishburne wasnt in it. But Keanu's name drew enough at least before the reviews were out.

[@AyumuNarumi75]

@@premjanipati1194 That might be true or not, but looking through Keanu's filmography shows that the only movies of his that are a hit, since 2013 are the John Wick films. I'm not going to count Toy Story 4, because nobody can tell me that movie only made money because Keanu was in it. Keanu might have some loyal fans, but that hasn't equaled big box office draw.

[@kdscool1536]

@@premjanipati1194 many is relative term, The Matrix 4 bombed hard, even on opening weekend.

[@dimebag505]

Agree with Gary, the time all the new James Gunn DC projects come out comic book films won't be making the money they have before and less people will be interested

[@QuadZillaGodZillasbrother]

Another one I would say, is Keanu any time Keanu Reeves in the movie I want to see it and this is just my gut feeling but give Jenna Ortega some time and she’ll def be a movie star

[@chasehedges6775]

Keanu Reeves is a legend and one of the few cool celebrities

[@chasehedges6775]

Jenna Ortega is a good actress.

[@kevindavid7149]

@@chasehedges6775 true

[@marcosrecio4062]

Ortega Is the new flavor or the month,like Zendaya was

[@chasehedges6775]

@@marcosrecio4062 Zendaya is also a good actress.

[@jiggycalzone8585]

I always thought the rock would be fun to work with but between Adam of Color and what I hear about fast and furious it seems like he's actually kind of a "diva"

[@_ripVanWinkle_]

The "movie stars" are getting old, it'll take a couple more years to have another wave, I hope Anthony Starr could be one

[@Fe7Ace]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't understand when they say movie stars are gone/dead/dying. I believe this is people reminiscing about times in the past when they cared more or had more affection for the industry.. "Back in my day.." For younger people the big names of today are filling the same role, there's always "another wave" happening. In thirty years we'll all be reminiscing how the real movie stars were Christian Bale, Ryan Gosling, Chris Pratt, Tom Hardy or whoever.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@Fe7Ace👍👍👍

[@hothotheat3000]

The Rock was banking on this being his retirement plan. He saw how RDJ made BANK of his time with the MCU. Rock is 50. His time as an action star is ticking away, and he’s not stupid. He thought he’d get a trilogy and other movies out of this and he isn’t. He tried the same shit with Fast and Furious. He was mad about being a supporting character and wanted more, and demanded a spin-off. That spin-off isn’t getting a sequel. He can’t make anything on his own. He has to jump into other people’s franchises because he’s not talented enough or bankable enough to create his own thing. He’s a snake oil salesman who tries to convince the world that he’s a bigger deal than he actually is.

[@Mister_Skar]

Would Keanu Reeves be considered a movie star?

[@poocrayon4588]

He's a star but not a huge star - and he's pretty old now

[@dannywanny4109]

Competition has also been a big factor in Shazam 2 and it’s underperformance. With Creed III and John Wick 4 bookmarking it, it’s not a surprise that DC’s lackluster brand power couldn’t save them.

[@miloclarke6171]

How can you not mention Keanu Reeves He's in a movie people will see it just for him

[@Age_of_Apocalypse]

I missed the stream yesterday, where is the WHOLE stream?

[@grandmufftwerkin9037]

Dwayne sunk the future of the DCEU like a rock.

[@chasehedges6775]

Like the DCEU had a future to begin with 😂

[@strategery101]

He is disgusting. He endorsed Brandon too

[@kevindavid7149]

@@strategery101 Yup. He is done

[@speciallasagna8521]

Probably because he looked down. After all, they don't call him Dwayne "The Ship" Johnson.

[@Ilyak1986]

@@strategery101 you mean "Yo Joe!" as opposed to the pussy-grabber who can't formulate a single sentence without devolving into word salad? Yeah I think The Rock made the correct call on that one.

[@vonVile]

Zaslav and Gunn caused Black Adam and Shazam 2 to bomb. When you announce a reboot when you still have films in the pipeline they automatically become irrelevant. The Rock is just the patsy to be the excuse for their failure just like Snyder. Gunn was going to happen no matter what because WB has had a hard-on for him since GOTG1. They ruined Suicide Squad by making it a GOTG knock off. They let Gunn do his version of Suicide Squad and it was worse because he did nothing different. WB gave him the keys to the kingdom allowing him to do Peacemaker and that upcoming animated series.

[@cameronscott7304]

Exactly!

[@brendaspence1824]

The suicide squad movie wa s praised by fans tho.shit half these guys taking liked it

[@phuqutoob-pf7pb]

Dwayne Johnson's wife is in charge of casting

[@danjonmills]

Ex wife

[@Red-zh7vq]

The Rock: I don’t want Shazam’s arch nemesis to be Shazam’s arch nemesis. Me: 🤦‍♂️

[@Megarobotsquadron]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Rock refused to be involved in an Shazam! project because he wasn't into being a villain who was gonna lose the final fist fight. The ego is huge on that man. Remember his foray into fast and furious?

[@tankboi8249]

The fact the the rock played an ancient, middle eastern character, and every single other middle eastern character in this movie spoke English with a middle eastern accent, the rock, spoke exactly like the rock speaks, no attempt or effort made at all, and he spoke like the rock of someone told him to do an impression of himself. Nobody wants to see that. If you made a cut of this film that didn’t show the rock at all, just everything else, it would be infinitely better.

[@qbcomicaddict2590]

Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio are the two movie stars I still go to movies for. Can’t believe they didn’t get mentioned at all

[@kdscool1536]

Pitt had a massive bomb recently with Babylon, even though he was terrific in it.

[@erikbuysbricks1562]

The guy at the beginning was just straight stealing what Tarantino said in a recent interview, word for word.

[@chasehedges6775]

Older actors admitting they have no idea what it going in superhero movie is TIGHT!

[@floridadad2817]

It makes sense. Black Adam is Shazam's nemesis. Maybe they're just being meta about the whole thing.

[@andrewnevermind4902]

Dwayne Johnson is a big diva i bet.

[@anadin0612]

It's not just a lack of movie stars. There are no ACTORS! Even action heroes could Act back in the day.

[@chasehedges6775]

Good point

[@forrestbarrett2376]

Chris Pratt is absolutely a draw, magnetic personality, incredible funny and good looking and tons of people will support anything he does.

[@fabianhermsen1225]

he has enough movies that flop. He is not quite a movie star. All his non franchise movies have flopped, if I remember correctly

[@brendaspence1824]

@@fabianhermsen1225 the latest jurassic movies hit a billion dude…

[@vb2806]

​@@brendaspence1824 that's because of the franchise not the actor.

[@chasehedges6775]

He’s a good actor but he has a habit of being in a lot of projects that are hit and miss

[@forrestbarrett2376]

@@vb2806 disagree, if he hadn’t been in those movies to establish them they don’t do nearly as good as they did.