Drinker's Chasers - The Worst Hollywood Year In Generations

[@darthdiculous6511]

The irony is that CGI was supposed to make filmmaking CHEAPER because it was supposed to be easier and faster than shooting on location and elaborate practical effects.

[@dr.juerdotitsgo5119]

Actually, CG supposed to be just a tool to correct or brush things over, unless we're talking about stuff that fit the context, like 1982's "Tron". Imo full-scale CGI looks awful no matter how well it was made, especially because of movement. It can fool our eyes regarding objects, but not our eyes regarding physics.

[@qnebra]

CGI can't fix retarted executives

[@blaze4metal]

@@dr.juerdotitsgo5119 Not to mention that, even if done well, CGI ages HORRIBLY when overused. Movies like Jurassic Park still look relatively decent even today compared to much more recent stuff put out.

[@mr_ozzio5095]

@@dr.juerdotitsgo5119 Also to make back ground scenery cheaper for film and TV, by cutting on the need to build huge sets and hire the hundreds people involved in that process!

[@chasehedges6775]

@@blaze4metal JP1 also had a good story and characters

[@Davechow12]

I hate being in a position where we’re celebrating the failure of Disney, but the Drinker’s right, what are we supposed to do? They’re making these terrible choices and pushing an absurd agenda that nobody wants.

[@mattnar3865]

It's hard not to enjoy Disney failing after all the bad they've pushed out

[@missing_links]

It's not that they've merely pushed out a bad product, it's because they're trying to use their product as nothing more than a vehicle for evil ideas. Incompetence can be forgiven; betrayal should not.

[@chivalrousguy3265]

Evil ideas? I'm out of the loop. What ideas?

[@b-zoneonroku2020]

@@chivalrousguy3265 Communism for one...

[@scorpixel1866]

@@b-zoneonroku2020 They're champagne socialists, as in they preach social concepts that make them look good but will still lobby in order to make sure it doesn't affect their lavish lifestyle. Their division of society through aggressively pushing "progressive" ideas that ruined the normalisation (as in live and let live) of the early 2000s is a far more real threat to society.

[@johnenigma8506]

The fact that the effects in the original Lord of the Rings trilogy still hold better than a big budget movie that was made in 2023 is damning.

[@bighand1530]

Not just effects, but more positive impact as well too.

[@johnenigma8506]

@@bighand1530 Oh, that part goes without saying. The respect for the trilogy only grows with passing year. You look at even a scene from the trilogy and you just feel the passion coming from Peter Jackson.

[@harbl99]

@@johnenigma8506 "If you don't believe that this is the most important thing you could be doing, there's the door." -- Richard Taylor of Weta Workshop to his staff before starting work on LOTR. People went at making those films like they were medieval craftsmen building a cathedral; they knew this was for the ages and that only their best was good enough.

[@roadwarrior1459]

The CGI in T2 looks better than 99% of movies made today.

[@Jiub_SN]

That's not exactly a fair comparison. LoTR was one of the best films of that era and none of the 2023 films can compare. That's like comparing Micheal Jordan to your 15 year old cousin who plays basketball for his highschool. You should compare the best movie you've seen to a film like that

[@ColinFox]

I used to work in the VFX industry. I worked at a company called Gener8 which specialized in 2D->3D conversions. We could convert a purely 2D movie into 3D, and we also worked with studios (including Marvel!) with their 3D films, because even on a 3D shoot you sometimes have to shoot with a single camera in small spaces. Anyway - what we noticed was that Hollywood always went for the lowest bidder, and we eventually got starved out by a company that was willing to work for $0, or even PAY to work on the film, in order to take the oxygen out of the room so their competition would die. And we did. Our company went bankrupt. Rhythm & Hues, the company that got an Oscar for VFX on "The Life of Pi" went bankrupt the day they got their Oscar. I don't know where the hundreds of millions being spent today is going, but it ISN'T into the vfx companies!

[@danielmenefrego]

Yeah, vfx were supposed to make the whole process cheaper and that's obviously not the case. Hollywood is a money loundering scam, I don't see any other explanation for this.

[@oskarfunes2505]

​@@johnnycab8986top gun flew real planes, those cost thousands of dollar per hour. The practical in that movie if the effects that made it great apart from agenda free story telling.

[@DavidFrancis24824]

​@@johnnycab8986Yeah, that's a horrible example. Sorry man. But that movie was fantastic and it did extremely well. You can see exactly where the money went in that movie and I think it looked amazing and was a huge success. They are talking about movies like Marvel, Star Wars, Disney Live Action, and stuff like that.

[@EvilDoresh]

Well, seeing how Disney has treated its VFX department, I don't think they really care about this whole part of filmmaking. For whatever reason

[@johnpreston230]

​@@johnnycab8986I agree with you those numbers are always fake

[@vladpiranha]

This is the perfect storm of out of control budgets, too many sequels and remakes, and social media showing us how awful the average celebrity is.

[@chasehedges6775]

💯

[@ShawnD-tp3id]

Also the hypocrisy of preaching to the average person while every politician and mainstream news source is lying everyday to push their agenda... Nothing feels real or honest anymore

[@Blizofoz45]

Everything the left has done either in Hollywood, politics and society in general since 2020 has completely backfired. Gotta have balance. Without it you have disaster.

[@Puzzoozoo]

Well, sooner or later something is going to break, and it'll send shock waves all the way to Larry Finks office.

[@chrisweidner4768]

I’m looking forward to “The Beekeeper.”

[@randm4246]

It's very simple: Movies are being made for an audience that doesn't exist. Hollywood thinks that the beliefs they see on the Internet, and in California, represent a large portion of the country, and thus their audience, and this is simply a massive misread.

[@ItsaKindOfMagic86]

it is on purpose they despise the outsiders of their exclusive elite club

[@SergioMendoza760]

As someone who lives in Southern California you’re absolutely correct. And you can absolutely tell because I grew up in the Midwest and the type of people in LA compared to say Detroit where I grew up is like night and fucking day. And I don’t even live near LA but I’ve experienced enough of the culture here to understand that hollywood is clearly trying to put this ultra PC message out in everything they make that quite literally is only passively receptive to people from roughly this region and other highly liberal places of the country. Which is an absolutely ridiculous mindset because these people don’t even go to see movies like you said it’s an audience that doesn’t exist. It’s sad to see in real time because I remember loving going to the movie theater as a kid, and now todays kids don’t even get to enjoy half of that experience because everything’s streamed from their fucking iPads.

[@alexvesper7820]

It's not necessarily that they think their views are more common than they are. They do, but they also have absolutely no interest in catering to audiences outside their ideological bubble. As the bubble gets smaller and narrower, so goes their audience.

[@matijerzykom]

It's much more simple. The movies are just bad.

[@chronicbrightside8757]

It really is. Large swaths of California are very unrepresentative of the more radicalized leftist ideals traditionally associated with the state. My partner is from California. They're a leftist, feminist, and nonbinary/trans. And you know what? They hate the weird agendas in recent Disney movies as much as anyone else. They're just hamfisted and poorly written, and have such a shitty attitude. I once read a statistic then 10% of Twitter is responsible for 90% of Twitter's content. Similarly, ratings on sites like Rottentomatoes don't count as the opinion of everyone who's ever seen a movie, but of everyone who has seen that movie AND ALSO post reviews to Rottentomatoes. Very little of what you see online is representative of what the vast majority of people think about anything. So corporations that create content based on algorithms of a bunch of chronically online, desperately out of touch, deeply radicalized and fragile people are only losing money because, as you said, none of this is actually FOR anyone. It's for an imaginary audience - or at the very least, one that's infintesimally small but incredibly loud.

[@DjDeadpig]

2023 will be the year that Hollywood is remembered for being beaten by indie animators on KZbin.

[@nont18411]

And a guy from Japan with 15 million budget

[@chasehedges6775]

@@nont18411 Just insane

[@cokemaster3710]

@@nont18411it being a godzilla movie totally had nothing to do with its success, only successful because of “some guy from japan” lol. lmao even.

[@zzygyy]

I recommend "Sisu" too. Great "John Wick" style movie during ww2.

[@CitizenPoe]

Its a budget thing… the Japanese guy just showed the west how to make money again with a reasonably budgeted Godzilla movie. Your lack of understanding nuance is the only thing making me lmao.

[@vidyastuff3509]

"I was right but Im not happy about it" is the saddest thing about all this. Its so bad we cant even enjoy gloating.

[@programme9363]

This is how I'll feel when Cap 4 flops entirely

[@brandonm4550]

Will be a nice 500+ million dollar loss at this point. Production cost alone is probably 350m at this point

[@blkirish88]

Speak for yourself I’m enjoying the schadenfreude immensely

[@theelder4797]

I can 🥰

[@jskrabac]

Gloating? What did you accomplish? Lol

[@vjbd2757]

There was only one movie that cost more than $200 million that made a profit in 2023. Let that sink in.

[@vineetdesai6396]

Guardians vol 3?

[@chasehedges6775]

@@vineetdesai6396👍

[@Locadel2003]

I think its probably Guardians of the Galaxy 3 because made 845 milion dollars

[@vjbd2757]

@@vineetdesai6396 Yep

[@psychokinrazalon]

Not a lot of profit.

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

"The worst year in Hollywood history." - 2023 "Hold my Bud Light." - 2024

[@aSSGoblin1488]

here's hoping the trans people buy budlight

[@bosoundaries]

@@aSSGoblin1488 The trans people should bath in their beer!

[@AZ-697]

@@aSSGoblin1488Doubt it. Do you know how much transitioning costs? That’s why so many industries want to push it on children. When they think about sterilizing and permanently medicalizing children they see dollar signs.

[@gyorgyor7765]

Damn you ninja'd me.

[@seanharrison6719]

Civil War. The timing of that movie is almost too crazy.

[@markadler8968]

People are getting more enjoyment boycotting these movies than actually going to watch them.

[@davidoconnor3201]

The biggest problem in Hollywood is that the producers think they are directors.

[@dougrobinson8602]

Not to mention actors who think they're directors and writers. Some actually are, but not many.

[@jawhoney]

Good observation

[@chasehedges6775]

@@jawhoney Yep

[@chrisb9960]

No, the biggest problem in Hollywood is that they think they have grounds to dictate how everyone else should think and act.

[@chrisb9960]

To build on the previous post, The museum of American history has a section for films and movies. They actually brag about the amount of control they have.

[@mikali55]

No wonder Godzilla Minus One felt like the best movie of the year. Where the other movies of Hollywood have lower the bar to be complete trash.

[@michaelbeaule1966]

Yes 2023 was movie and TV trash, but Godzilla was a great film in general and not because of a low bar that was set.

[@TarinClott]

Poor things, Holdovers, Oppenheimer, Maestro, Boy and the heron, Killers of the flower moon, Godzilla minus one, Saltburn, Spiderverse, Zone of interest, Look at the positives 🤷 marvel DC and star wars are falling off the map and woke messages are proving they don't sell

[@barrybend7189]

Yeah because it was done by the guy who did a live action Space Battleship Yamato movie. If he could do that with reused props and sets from Battlestar Galactica reimagined and a shoestring budget Godzilla is well within his wheelhouse.

[@stiopruryd4879]

The Iron Claw gives it a bang for the buck but these two are definitely up there :)

[@evilalex87]

its better than john wick 4 or oppenheimer ?

[@reapersaurus]

I can pinpoint exactly when Hollywood started this descent into the International box office being more important than Domestic ; it was Mummy 3: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor. I was in an early pre-screening of it, and realized this was co-opting a US franchise and repackaged for foreign audiences and could see where this would lead to - in fact, I wrote it out and handed it to the studio reps there.

[@chasehedges6775]

For me, it was after 2015 ended

[@chasehedges6775]

Tomb Of The Dragon Emperor sucked

[@jawhoney]

You a thug

[@mikavirtanen7029]

Yeah, that's when sucking up to China started and dominoes started to fall.

[@barnabusdoyle4930]

Studios announced about a decade ago using algorithms and early AI programs to do scripts and storylines. I would say that is where the downhill voyage started.

[@LukePlissken]

Do you remember when in 08-09 everyone thought a $300 million dollar budget for Avatar was absurd? Just became the standard a bit after.

[@brandonm4550]

At least avatar looked like a $300m movie. These marvel/Disney films don’t even look half as good as the phase one films with 3x the budgets

[@spacemanspud7073]

Remember inflation

[@LukePlissken]

@@spacemanspud7073 I do every day.

[@Art-is-craft]

It cost nowhere near that figure.

[@Neonradss]

@@Art-is-craft "The 2009 film Avatar was officially budgeted at $237 million due to the groundbreaking array of new visual effects achieved in cooperation with Weta Digital in Wellington. Other estimates put the cost at between $280 million and $310 million for production and at $150 million for promotion." a 10s google is all it takes to stop you from looking like a moron in future. Why are you arguing when you have no idea what you're talking about?

[@Muck006]

It isnt JUST "losing money of absolutely expensive movies" .... it is also NOT MAKING PROFITS FROM MERCHANDISING anymore because the movies completely fail.

[@Zogger568]

Movie merchandise sucks ass now a days anyway

[@thundercatshooo600]

The worst of years for Hollywood. The best years for fan who are tired of wokeness in Hoollywood. The message that fans are rejecting wokeness should now be sinking in, with increasing speed.

[@KennethBlum-sl6rx]

They have a few more years of wokeness left in them. It's their religion and they aren't going to give it up voluntarily.

[@ordo_draigo_assault_ham]

@@KennethBlum-sl6rxEvery time they’ve pushed it, it’s been resoundingly rejected. If Hollyweird wants to embarrass itself as it ends, so be it.

[@theodenkingofbrohan]

Ultimately Hollywood will need to be de-wokeified the way Germany was de-nazified

[@thundercatshooo600]

@@KennethBlum-sl6rx Also, too many woke films are already in the pipes. They just have to let them pass through.

[@marcus_ohreallyus]

People complaining about wokeness are even more annoying than wokeness

[@kpsk8031]

The era of the 250+ million budget movie is over. The audience has left the building.

[@rp-2f]

The problem is that men (half the population) have become totally ignored as an audience. The things that we like action movies superhero movies gangster shows and movies have all been transformed into female centric type shows.

[@krissteel4074]

Most of them aren't even female centric, I mean you can take a lady to an action/sci-fi blockbuster full of women doing men-things, but she's not necessarily going to like it! I mean if the average lass is being charitable she might think some of the costumes are interesting but there's usually no meaningful dialogue, romance, plot or even a proper ending that's even vaguely comprehensible to most anyone still trying to tie all the dead-ends together. Its not like women dislike watching women in movies, but if there's nothing relatable there, the care factor starts dropping like a rock.

[@anthonyi614]

Expendables 4…..

[@squibbsounds]

Speak for yourself dude. More of us like extreme horror, sci-fi, action and anime. No real dude likes superhero movies and gangster movies are kinda cringe as shit.

[@rp-2f]

@@squibbsounds so goodfellas casino the sopranos breaking bad heat (just to name a few are cringe)? What planet are you from?

[@rp-2f]

@@krissteel4074 I think you're right when I say female centric it's not really what females fantasize about its more what the activists want females to fantasize about

[@rhysthomas1699]

2024 is going to ultimately destroy Disney to fine powder. I would love to see small, indie movies achive a billion dollars, let the underdogs finally get their spotlight & recognition they deserve.

[@liamphibia]

2025, however, will be the final nail in Disney's coffin once that shit-ass Snow White Remake releases.🗑️🔥

[@marcusa.ragnos1041]

It’s already happening. All these small and/or crowd-funded studios making Sound of Freedom and The Shift are the ones turning profit. Some of em are making BANK cuz their over-head is so low

[@garrettk7166]

Maybe. Maybe not. Let's see how Deadpool 3 does in 2024. It's their only slated release for the year. I think it will be excellent.

[@mattandrews2594]

What are you basing that on? Disney made a profit overall in 2023.

[@mattandrews2594]

@DorisDay-lw4xs Disney doesn't own Dr Who, the BBC does.

[@johnortiz1964]

Warner and Paramount merging is like when Sears and K-Mart fell into each other. I loved the comment made when this merger happened: " It's like 2 drunks propping each other up" 😁

[@vonfaustien3957]

Sears with mail order cataloge infrastructure was positioned perfectly to be the future of retail if theyd embraced the internet. They could have been Amazon a decade before amazon. Instead they scraped the mail order distribution infrastructure killed the catalog and went all in on physical retail withering away to nothing.

[@davidanderson_surrey_bc]

These will be two of the biggest lushes in town.

[@och70]

It's not really a mystery why the director of 'The Marvels' was cast. All you have to do is look at her. She checks off some diversity boxes that allow Disney/Marvel to virtue signal to sock puppet accounts on Twitter who weren't going to buy tickets to the movie anyway. They'll like and retweet the hell out of everything, but you can't eat likes and retweets.

[@svetlanaandrasova6086]

My words! They praise the hell out of it on Twitter or Tumblr and attack everyone who just slightly dislikes it, but where are they when its time to actually buy tickets?

[@Langley_Ackerman19]

Spot on.

[@marychocolatefairy]

After she was "cast", there were articles saying Marvel had done it so that they could brag that one of their movies was the highest grossing one by a black female director. (The previous record being $133 million for A Wrinkle in Time, also a flop). And of course these articles were reporting this as a good thing. So it was super funny when the movie came out and people on twitter were trying to inject this "positive" news of the record being broken in the midst of The Marvels' epic failure.

[@jasonleveck8546]

Facts man!

[@stein857]

If she's black, she's wack

[@ASoberBear]

Let’s be fair… if it was not for platforms like KZbin, we would assume everyone else lost their fucking minds when we see this stuff in the media and consumer content people like Az, Drinker, 1/4 Garrett etc are a ray of common sense. Sense we all just expected out of people back in 2007.

[@ezioauditore7759]

Bringing Rob on to the show and letting him speak his mind is the best decision you guys have made in a while. He brings actual industry experience and knowledge to the table which is generally rare in the content creator space.

[@ShannonGratton-w6p]

Congratulations on having a high quality guest such as Robert. His knowledge of the industry is truly a plus to the forum. Well done Drinker.

[@GearForTheYear]

Yes, studios track ‘every penny’ and yet you have directors that show up on set not even understanding what they’re shooting. I sense that he has some cognitive dissonance going on from his more formative years. The industry has changed a lot in a short period of time and he seems to be struggling to comprehend that.

[@bcdside]

10:46 “Under the right circumstances, a producer could more money with a flop than he could with a hit.” - “The Producers” (1967)

[@Neonsilver13]

The thing with the directors doing some smaller more indie type of movies, before being hired to make some effect heavy huge budget movie reminds me of something I read more than a decade ago. How talent in Hollywood is being used up instead of being cultivated and allowed to grow. That article used Josh Trank as an example. After his success with the movie Chronicle he was hired to do Fantastic Four. Instead of him getting a chance to diversify his experience and skills with different movies, he was made to do a movie that was more or less the same as his only other movie so far, it just had 10 times the budget. That movie bombed and likely tanked Trank's career prospects in hollywood. I think the article had some points about Shyamalan as well, who was after Sixth Sense, Unbreakable and Signs kind of hyped up as the next Spielberg or something.

[@rogierb5945]

The next Spielberg label was already created after just his first movie. Imagine what that does to an rookie director.

[@fishjones4618]

Speaking of Spielberg, the guy paid his dues directing episodes of Columbo and Night Gallery. And did smaller films like Duel and Sugarland Express to hone his craft. So by the time Jaws fell in his lap, he was able to work through difficulties like the malfunctioning shark robot and on the fly rewrites. Imagine how much Close Encounter would have been a disaster if he had one or two Columbo episodes under his belt and THEN that film.

[@davidanderson_surrey_bc]

@@fishjones4618 Good observations there.

[@nobobynnobody]

Speilberg started making movies when he was 11 years old. It's his natural language. No idea what Josh Trank was doing as a kid, but apparently he burned a lot of bridges at the studio when he made Fantastic 4. I don't think there's anything stopping him making more films except himself. He has enough money and clout to make another Chronicle. Maybe he was a one-trick pony?

[@fishjones4618]

@@nobobynnobody Trank was sitting on his fat ass (by his own admission) living off his successful award winning documentarian father.

[@leedesigner1977]

Really good to have Robert on here, I found myself smiling and nodding at everything he said and listening to it all. Great job guys! Lee

[@rexlumontad5644]

Remakes are a curse of every classic works nowadays.

[@chasehedges6775]

💯💯

[@nont18411]

But Godzilla Minus One works so well so it’s not really a curse when it’s done right

[@och70]

As soon as I hear things like "remake", "reboot", or the dreaded phrase "for modern audiences", I immediately lose interest.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@och70 The Disney remakes are the worst offenders

[@HowToChangeName]

2023 is officiqlly the lowest year where creativity bankruptcy hits the abyss

[@chasehedges6775]

The 2020s in general

[@liamphibia]

And wokeness absolutely *ruined* the industry's reputation.

[@lance134679]

This was the year I discovered a bunch of old movies and was reacquainted with some that are very good. For me, even if Hollywood never produces a single movie I want to see again, I'll be fine until the end of my days, as long as they don't start taking them away.

[@rolandmeyer3729]

Please share your list!✌️

[@lance134679]

@@rolandmeyer3729 It's very random. Here are some movies I've seen recently that think are pretty good or better: - Jackie Chan: Drunken Master, The Legend of the Drunken Master, Shaolin Wooden Men, Shanghai Noon - Ben Stiller: The Secret Life of Walter Mitty and Night at the Museum series - Ron Howard's Willow 1988 - Charade 1963 with Carey Grant/Audrey Hepburn - UHF with Weird Al - Running Scared with Billy Crystal, Gregory Hines - Fools Rush In with Matthew Perry, Salma Hayek - Superman 1978 - The Terminator 1984 - Jersey Girl 2004 - Holiday Affair 1949 Robert Mitchum, Janet Leigh

[@davestang5454]

100% agree. I don't care if Hollywood shuts down forever. No big loss to me.

[@Attmay]

They already started with *Song of the South.*

[@szeltovivarsydroxan9944]

Godzilla Minus One has been out for three weeks, and I finally saw it here in Germany yesterday. The theather was still almost fully packed. Insane. The movie is also a masterpiece. I haven't been invested in a movie's characters like this in ages.

[@MarkRVillano]

All they had to do was stay out of politics, and take neutral positions on the culture war.

[@Genethagenius]

Like Michael Jordan said when asked why he wasn’t political: “Republicans buy sneakers too…”

[@och70]

By the time they might have thought of making those decisions, the Cancel Pig parasites were already too deeply imbedded in the entertainment industry, some in very high level positions. It wasn't possible to have no opinion.

[@kriswillman2779]

Or at least be more subtle about it. Politics in movies is nothing new but they were cleverly woven in. Everything today is like a nuclear bomb...zero subtlety.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@kriswillman2779 Exactly. Subtlety MATTERS!

[@psychokinrazalon]

@@kriswillman2779Subtlety doesn’t make change happen, unfortunately. It’s a documentary, but the success of Blackfish shows the power a film can have on the world of business.

[@chasehedges6775]

The 2020s have been the years of all time. Absolutely awful

[@Tinandel]

Bad news… we’ve still got quite a ways to go on ‘em.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@Tinandel YAY, I’m so excited

[@nullbubble791]

Good. May it get even worse before it gets better, teach them a lesson.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@nullbubble791💯

[@kallum39]

The 1920s have been the years of all time. Absolutely awful

[@Zoddlander]

The nightmare year for hollywood has been a nighmare for the audiance for many years! Hollywood is just catching up! But the question is still "will they learn from their failures?" and this niughtmare will take time to shake!

[@BLUEDELUCA]

There is a clip on youtube of Siskel and Ebert talking about the future of film criticism, this would have been early 90s, where Siskel brings up the problem with college kids being hemmed in by political correctness and how that kills good writing.

[@stsolomon618]

History is repeating itself, studios were close to bankruptcy in the mid to late 60s because of their bad choices.

[@davestang5454]

That was Hollywood but not the entire industry. Hollywood's loss was the international producer's gain. Films from other countries gained a lot of fans. I think that trend is repeating itself, too.

[@stsolomon618]

@davestang5454 you are right. french New Wave, italian films, Japanese films, and art house films gained a following from the audiences back in the day, and now those films are doing it again. Great Directors like Lucas, Spielberg, Scorsese, Coppola took from their films.

[@Attmay]

@@stsolomon618Boomers added nothing of value to the cinematic lexicon. The so-called “New Hollywood” mostly just copied French and Italian postwar cinema. Directors and producers in wartorn nation making decisions out of economic necessity is different from mainstream American directors making their films self-consciously ugly on purpose. Acting as though the illegal occupation of Western Asia that racists call “3ur0p3” is the be-all, end-all of anything but imperialism and terrorism was the problem in the first place.

[@Attmay]

No, then you really can blame the audience since the oldest of the boomers were now legally considered adults. It’s the boomers who have been making bad choices and every other generation who has been forced to pay the costs, and their shitty and philistine taste in entertainment is part of the problem. Pre-1970s Hollywood routinely put out better movies than ANYTHING we are seeing from them now.

[@stsolomon618]

@Attmay French New Wave directors like Truffaut and many other were inspired by old Hollywood cinema like Hitchcock and many others. That so-called New Hollywood had classic films such as Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, American Graffiti, Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Godfather 1 and 2, and so many others. The directors were influenced by French and Italian films. Even Tarrantino stated that 70s were a great decade for movies and he takes from international films as well.

[@TastyScotch]

The director comments got me thinking about Larion and their success with Baulders Gate 3. A large part of that games success is that Larion has spent decades making games exactly like it. Everyone involved is streamlined and very skilled at their specific job making this kind of game. When a huge team like that can use their skills to its maximum potential, you get a game that wins GOTY even though its a turn based D&D game that doesnt even interest a large part of the community. Myself included. I had no interest in BG3 but hearing how well made it was i gave it a try… and oh man, it lived up to the hype 😂

[@joeyservo]

I'm playing it right now as I'm reading your comment

[@ariamaddison257]

I can’t wait for next year, when Hollywood inevitably doubles down on their nonsense and continue along this path.

[@suezcontours6653]

Zack snyders Rebel Moon is also a failure. Put that in there too

[@cmd31220]

He hit the nail on the head. "Movies used to be an intersection of art and commerce. now it's just commerce." Everything is focus tested and written in rooms with 20 people and designed to appeal to every demographic possible and bankable in foreign markets. Reshoots galore to hit the perfect level of mass appeal while story is replaced with cgi spectacle since foreign markets like that more since American stories aren't relatable to them. If you want to know why budgets have balooned while quality has nose dived, it's that right there

[@nicholasvinen]

If it was just commerce they'd throw The Message out the window and make media for the widest possible audience.

[@JE3MAN]

Surprisingly, there were several movies made OUTSIDE of the Hollywood sphere that were straight up bangers. It was an amazing year for international cinema.

[@grunt6799]

Marvels success destroyed Hollywood dating back to 2008. We are now all experiencing the post-profit Marvel era where Hollowood is rudderless and creatively bankrupt. A subpar superhero franchise made so much money that it has watered down everything else and people are afraid to think outside the box.

[@chasehedges6775]

Shame because 2008 was an awesome year

[@chasehedges6775]

The same year The Dark Knight came out.

[@chasehedges6775]

@siddharthsriram2685 Nobody is smart anymore. The world is going mad

[@roadwarrior1459]

The MCU will go down as the worst thing to happen to cinema.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@roadwarrior1459 The best and worst thing ever constructed

[@Flint_Ironstag]

I agree with Drinker that the comic book movie drove the explosion in budgets, but I think it started with the first Avatar. Its $1 billion gross got the greed wheels spinning in people’s minds, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the mid-range budget comedies disappeared within a couple years of its release

[@chrisw6164]

The Hangover movies happened, but they were the exception. 2000-2010 had a ton of comedy movies, not so much since then.

[@calvinmurphy304]

If the CCP pays for the movie but won't show it in mainland China (and outlaws bootlegs) then you know it is a socio-bio weapon

[@Wiwcharizard]

What movie are you referring to?

[@hassathunter2464]

Mulan? Though it got banned for thanking its concentration camps.

[@Attmay]

Say “illegal occupier of Taiwan, Tibet, and Hong Kong.“ The C-word is a racial slur against all those places.

[@DeltaVTX]

Guardians 3 was like the last kiss from your spouse before dying due to long illness. G-1 was the only movie I’ve ever seen 2x in theatre.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

Gunn’s a weirdo. I won’t watch anything he is involved with

[@chasehedges6775]

The 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, early to mid 2000s and early to mid 2010s were the best decades.

[@ClarenceJBoddicker1987]

Why overlook the 70's?

[@chasehedges6775]

@@ClarenceJBoddicker1987 Fixed it

[@zzygyy]

This is the reason I own physical media. Movies from the 70s are being edited for streaming.

[@tallguy00121]

I loved 2005-2009 too.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@tallguy00121👍

[@nathangasti7769]

Character development has been replaced with how characters get certain items of clothing rather than having them learn or go through changes

[@yuricahere]

Incidentally also the worse Hollywood generation in years

[@chasehedges6775]

💯💯

[@tomaszkowalski7723]

its kinda weird that the end of blockbuster movies is happening at the same time as the AAA game crash

[@croaton07]

AAA games have been dropping for a while, but the recent news (like GTA 6) seems to lean towards the gaming industry trying to do what Hollywood has failed at.

[@Stormcrow_1]

Not entirely strange, both industries have been infected with DEI and ESG, both of which lead to products the majority don't want, made by people that are diversity hires.

[@ANonymous-mo6xp]

Well everything went fucking woke to cater to 8% of the population. Total fucking stupid fucking ignorant hubris on their part. FUCK EM.

[@hassathunter2464]

​@@croaton07 But what if GTA VI ids a bust though. Not fincially, critically.

[@marshalmichelney-bc8qn]

Napoleon for me was the perfect example of bad Hollywood. Didn’t understand the character. Didn’t understand the time period. Turned one of history’s greatest men into a whiny incel. They don’t honor or respect anything. Scott told historians to stfu. Rather than listen and make something great, he told them to stfu

[@markiangooley]

You can despise Napoleon as an evil human being, but acknowledge that he was a military genius who started being successful very young, and a remarkable if very flawed man. This film is mostly character assassination, I gather.

[@JRRob3wn]

Hiring Phoenix should have told everyone everything they needed to know about the movie. He’s made an entire career out of playing variations on this character.

[@stalhandske9649]

What most astonishes me that this garbage came from the same director who, in his early career, made such an excellent period drama taking place in Napoleonic Era (!) that was The Duellists.

[@JRRob3wn]

@@stalhandske9649 Excellent point. The Duellists is a perfect film, a work of art. Consider he followed that up with Alien and Blade Runner, you would have expected a lot more out of his career. He’s still made plenty of pretty good movies, but nothing that came close to those first three.

[@bwise7739]

⁠​⁠@@JRRob3wn whether this is the reason the Duellist is so good or not, he was working with a very limited budget. Constraints sometimes work as an advantage artistically. Same I think holds true for Star Wars IV. OTOH one of the worst disasters from before the present was Heaven’s Gate with brought down a studio because of its excesses by a director out of control and cost overruns.

[@LastSunrise1981]

Robert's statement about the state of comedy resonated in my mind. Before the world transformed into an everything is offensive echo chamber, every so often you'd have a line-up comedies of sincere quality. The last American Pie was funny, Office Christmas Party and Game Night were hysterical, Neighbors I and II were great, Horrible Bosses is still hilarious today, Hangover I and II are amazing, Vacation is underrated, and Tropic Thunder is a classic. What comedies have we had that generated sincere interest and laughs? Granted, No Hard Feelings was a step in the right direction, Bros was a pathetic attempt in tricking the audience with a grotesque film, and The Blackening was decent. Seriously whatever happened to great comedies?

[@coulsonintahiti]

Meanwhile, in other news, anime and manga continue to be popular with fans due to the writers actually giving a f*ck. But seriously, Jujutsu Kaisen and Attack on Titan can literally 1vE every movie and TV show this year.

[@boydudereviews]

Agree. JJK and AOT have been on fire with how well written they are.

[@orihalchon]

Every time, i honestly wish these guys delve into foreign works and talk about it (like Chato does), especially Japanese ones. Considering how increasingly popular they are getting in the west and how unhappy they are with the industry, they just cannot dismiss it anymore. Like a lot of folks still, they're missing out massively.

[@coulsonintahiti]

@@orihalchon This is going to be out generation's Star Trek. The stuff for nerds that ends up saving entertainment. Let's hope it doesn't suffer the same fate :)

[@davidsummer8631]

Robert is right about comedy films some of which on average budgets hit big, but as the panel said today those budgets would be at least more than double

[@markusfreund6961]

Yeah you can well and truly leave out the "Hollywood", this applies to reality at large.

[@chasehedges6775]

True

[@chasehedges6775]

The world is definitely going on a downward spiral

[@jeddr1]

I hope this sets up the beginnings of the new golden era of cinema, I’ve seen some great films that aren’t giant blockbusters this year, Maestro and Saltburn and Poor Things to name a few, there’s good cinema out there, hopefully the studios will realise that that’s the way to go in the future

[@chrisaguilera1564]

"It was the worst of times, it was the best of times". Nah, just the worst. Hollywood chose Commerce over Creativity when creativity built the industry. Rob's right, they destroyed themselves.

[@barrybend7189]

About the effects of the Space Battleship Yamato movie in 2010 it reused sets or props from Battlestar Galactica reimagined. And hilariously Disney had plans of their own to make a SBY movie but change the Yamato to the Arizona ( which is an actual ship in canon of the original series but not of Yamato spec).

[@M.C.ThomasReviews]

2023 definitely seemed like a transitional year. Comic book and Disney movies can no longer slide by on brand recognition alone. People want mature dramas like Oppenheimer, emotionally resonating blockbusters like Godzilla Minus One, and faithful video game adaptations like Mario and FNAF.

[@eshaandwivedi4921]

Hey M.C. Thomas. Nice to see u here.

[@M.C.ThomasReviews]

@@eshaandwivedi4921Thank you 🙏 Hope you’re doing well!

[@squibbsounds]

We want extreme gore, high brow Sci Fi and action. And we’re getting it. It’s awesome. 🤌🏻

[@ANonymous-mo6xp]

Parents are literally asking if the Disney movies are pushing politics. That alone says Disney is FUCKED.

[@squibbsounds]

@@ANonymous-mo6xp Cool, we agree. So no more Disney talk, right?

[@p_dubs_420]

Robert’s point about movies only being about commerce anymore is spot on. I grew up admiring the art style of different films, and the emotions those styles conveyed. Nowadays everything is the same, there’s no passion or uniqueness.

[@fishjones4618]

The only difference is that this time it’s a nightmare of their own creation. Hollywood has withstood social and technological upheavals in the past. From the advent of sound, the rise of television, cable television, physical home entertainment, social and societal issues, etc. This time, they stubbornly pushed their chips onto the superhero square and have individuals wear their political beliefs, no matter which way, on their sleeves. Hollywood just entertained. Not anymore.

[@SuperBoomshack]

I watched the new Indiana Jones movie last night and discussed with my girlfriend about how movies like Raiders of the Lost Ark and Star Wars were better because of the sets that were built. The greenscreen and CGI has ruined movies in my opinion.

[@gishjalmr5628]

If the studios were at least attempting to make products that audiences wanted and not Year Zero struggle sessions to endure I might feel bad for them. However, when I see them fail with their blatant indoctrination material I can't help but smile.

[@timwhite5562]

I just watched Old School recently after not seeing it in 15 years. I quickly realized from the first few minutes in, right up to the end, that this could never be made today, even for an American audience. Actually, especially for an American audience. Late millennials and Gen Zrs are the lamest generation of young people in recorded history. I think kids growing up during the Black Death probably had a better sense of humor that these kids do. When 45 year old adults have to say "Jesus, lighten up kid," there's something wrong.

[@bargainhuntbricks420]

The director of that movie made joker because he was tired of how sanitized comedy has become.

[@kyotheman69]

because there's to many snowflakes these days, pushing garbage like metoo didn't help either, they killed comedy because people can't take a joke, its pathetic. Thank god South Park though, entering pander verse is what Hollywood needed

[@CyberLance26]

Most people does not realise at all how much has changed in such a very short time. Stuff made in the 2000s and even in the early 2010s were filled with different things that was normal and no big deal back then that people in the west nowadays dont think is ok anymore. Most people does not seem to notice how both society and the media has changed at all.

[@HARRYAZZHOLE]

Well the problem is the Director/Movie studio wouldn't listen to the audience, but rather the most annoying individual that isn't even interested in the movie or genre, but that individual has a bunch of "followers" on current day platform. The audience is still their. That is why Rippaverse is thriving in the comic book industry, when all the big name people said comics are dead.

[@kpsk8031]

My December tradition: Bad Santa. A traumatising event for every snowflake out there.

[@MunDane68]

There is something of a rather direct relationship between every movie use of CGI and it's overall lack of intelligent writing. I remain unconvinced that it's wholly the fault of the studios but rather directors who aren't comfortable with human experiences relying on computers to make it seem real.

[@RolandDeschain1]

When Guillermo made PACIFIC RIM he said that he was able to make that for $70 million by simply making up his mind and not changing anything. The wastefulness on big effects movies is when things are constantly being rethought and changed, either by indecisive directors or intrusive producers. This adds enormous amounts of time and expense. So Guillermo just chose the exact shots he needed, locked them in and that's how he made that massive effects picture for under $100 million.

[@davestang5454]

I have spent enough time on movie sets to know that they are bastions of wasted time, money and effort. Movie productions take WAY more time ( and, hence, expense) to make than they should or could. I direct and write little films and I find the whole idea of making shots and scenes "perfect" so overblown. I can finish most shots in just a few takes. The "imperfection" of a scene if often what I PREFER. It brings out the authenticity of the scene.

[@mesasavage]

While visiting my mom this week, we were looking for a movie to stream. My mom picked Barbie and I groaned. I tried explaining to her how terrible it was, but then admitted that I hadn’t actually seen it. So, I lost that argument… until we actually got about 30 minutes into it and she was groaning more than I was. I actually finished it out of curiosity, but she gave up at less than halfway through it.

[@Attmay]

Your mother was right to walk out and you should have joined her. Not only that, you should have demanded a refund.

[@myBquest]

I'm excited for A24 Films, they are taking their time with their productions and are exploring what people actually want. They were the first ones to sit on the table and negotiate with actors and writers, and are aware of the young talent out there. They are innovating the industry. Overall, I'm thrilled to see what they do with Backrooms.

[@andyforbes5553]

You know something, I now find myself watching some of the old movies from before CGI and marveling at the fact that what I was watching was really happening, like Waterloo and The Battle of Britain. CGI has a place but sometimes it loses some of a movies magnificence.

[@mazdaman0075]

On that note there is a special MI6 Confidential magazine edition just coming out about how the practical effects for Moonraker were achieved in 1978-79. I've always preferred practical effects for the reason you say, I know I'm actually watching something physical and it just makes the movie experience feel more authentic to me. I believe for the finale of Moonraker where the space station is blown up they closed the set and used shotguns to destroy the (huge) model. Cubby Broccoli apparently went to ILM (this was just after Star Wars of course in 1977) and when told how much money they wanted for some visual effects shots he just said, "Right boys, we're going to do this ourselves with real models". They showed a space shuttle launch even before the first NASA mission had actually flown (not until 1981). For the solid rocket plumes they used salt for the contrails if I'm not mistaken. Derek Meddings and his crew outdid themselves.

[@stalhandske9649]

Concur. Much of the awesomeness I felt with Waterloo came from somehow innately knowing that those people were really there.

[@tylergoodman3560]

Hollywood could have been fine if they had stuck to making good movies and ignoring identity politics. Hopefully, this year will be a much needed wake-up call for everyone involved. 🎉

[@Redbad61]

One sign of corruption is "wondering where the money all went."

[@Mazzy774i]

I went to the theater a single time this whole year what a absolute bummer of a year for films

[@Winterascent]

Is this what it looks like when activist females raised on self esteem and told they can do anything write films?

[@mrcliff3709]

Self esteem is overrated.

[@EvenTheDogAgrees]

yes

[@squibbsounds]

Activists are lame. Raising a daughter to have self esteem and to realize they’re capable of practically anything if they work hard is not and has never been a problem. Rubes who have nothing better to do that bitch about Disney is definitely a problem on KZbin tho. Like anyone gives a fuck about superhero movies 😂

[@mr_ozzio5095]

Once upon a time directors would even take over a camera or lighting rig, and do lights or shoot the scene them self's.. Because they went to film collage, and learnt how to use said equipment and know how it works!

[@barnabusdoyle4930]

Worst year in Hollywood for generations… Until next year.

[@markiangooley]

That seems likely!

[@DrNorth00]

RMB belongs in this crew. Keep him in the loop please.

[@gambeanoo]

Yea I agree, I love the dudes insight. Been following him for years now.

[@MartinGonzalez-gq1kj]

Imagine a Drinker, Mauler, John Campea And RMB episode.

[@SamHell-wr8bi]

John Campea is a shill. Has been for a decade.

[@DrNorth00]

Campea wouldn't do it@@MartinGonzalez-gq1kj

[@hugh-johnfleming289]

Ebbs and flows... I grew up "Hollywood." I never realized how much it consumed my life until it was in the "rear view mirror" for a few years. Inertia, alone, will tell you there is a Renaissance coming. Cinema is a force of nature now. Patience my children...

[@yinoveryang4246]

I believe the core issue lies here: The typical production timeline for major post-production-heavy films spans around 2.5 years, which doesn't factor in the significant disruptions caused by Covid, which added at least 6 months. These films were conceptualised in an era when almost every studio had developed to the notion that the only reliable approach was pervasive "virtue-signaling" in every possible aspect. However, I suspect that in reality very few truly believed in much of what they professed. Although they undoubtedly would have hired many hopeless fools who did. At the time . So, why this trepidation within the studios? What drives them to relentlessly check so many boxes? I believe it stems from the apprehension that arose when social media-driven 'cancellations' began impacting studio revenues due to criticisms from similarly virtue-signalling critics and journalists. The genuine and tangible fear of incurring the wrath of social media became evident to everyone. One example of this phenomenon was Ridley Scott's "Exodus: Gods and Kings," which faced severe critical backlash. The alleged crime? Insufficient casting of err .. Egyptian 🥵actors for crying out loud.

[@bullmoose5574]

Which would be ironic considering ancient Egyptians weren't Arab.

[@griffinlauerman7793]

Worst year I've ever lived through for entertainment. Can't believe it was so bad!

[@rexham83]

The last 3-5 years have been so bad with movies, that I'm going back to flops from the 90's - 2010's and they look like fucking masterpieces now.

[@Attmay]

The flops keep flopping harder and harder every generation as the American dollar becomes worth less and less.

[@maniacaldude]

2023 certainly showcased how much of a mess Hollywood has become, and I don't hold out hope for next year, either. It's why I put in place a principle to go for retro, indie, and foreign projects over the majority of what Hollywood is churning out in the modern era.

[@Blackwingdesigns]

The reason Mario didn't cost a lot was illumination is based out France and the cost to do it over there or rather anywhere outside US is inexpensive. That's why illumination will never be based out of the US

[@stoopidpursun8140]

Thank you Godzilla for being a bright spot in a terrible year, giving us a wonderful action movie, moving story about humanity, and quality unheard of in Hollywood, all in one. How did we get to a point where this statement is so accurate?

[@SusanPederson]

They also quit showing any respect to the original sources. What a shock...nobody enjoyed it! We would be happier with cardboard props & a good story. And yes! Rippa is right....the accounting & tax shenanigans are obvious. As a retired accountant I would LOVE to put my Sherlock Holmes hat back on and find out what the hell! Accountants are so resented and considered unneeded overhead and yet they are the adults in the room.😊

[@GuyNamedGray]

Born in 98. Grew up with Disney flicks, SW prequels and non-connected superhero movies. Thought dreams were coming true when the MCU started. Seeing everything now just makes me feel disappointed and bitter.

[@Attmay]

I was already a teenager by that point. I’m old enough to remember Disney before they got hooked on mergers and acquisitions.

[@everythingisawesome76]

I watched a new Disney 100 year anniversary special and I kept wandering how the studio heads could keep a straight face if they knew how bad this year was gonna be.

[@hemanthehercules2645]

That is because they have no concept of the history and significance of the innovations that Walt Disney created out of his garage. They see something old that is inferior and take joy in destroying things older, wiser people built.

[@akmason74]

The real problem for Hollywoke, is that all the movies they have slated for next year started production several years ago, so they aren't going to be a change in direction.

[@CableAnna]

The directors and producers have forgotten that movies/film is an art form. There’s no art nor creativity found these days in the industry and I fully understand that people who fell in love with the “movie magic” feel very disappointed and cynical for the love of “art” we get these days.

[@discohead735]

I used to go to the cinema once or twice a week. I did that for years. I'm so sad that I have been twice in 2023 because there has been so little I want to see. It makes me :-(

[@Starwarslegorob]

This year was positively awful! And it doesn’t look good for the future either! Hail Drinker

[@chasehedges6775]

True

[@jamesg8175]

I can listen to RMB for hours. So knowledgeable

[@NicBoffin]

The point that Hollywood has stopped making movies for purely domestic audiences is a great one. Hollywood films have lost their identity by trying to please everyone. Me personally, I love Bollywood films and anime series. About the worst thing I could see happen to either of those forms of media is them intentionally trying to cater/pander to an American audience. Bollywood is great because of the cultural touchstones and expectations of it, if they were to cut down on the musical numbers and reduce runtime for American audiences there wouldn't be a point (for me) to go see them any longer. I can get stuff like that (with a higher budget) at home. Do I understand all of the cultural things in a Bollywood film? Nope, I'm not Indian, but I still enjoy the films, and over time I've learned *some* of those things, which makes me enjoy them more.

[@maxxpower3d6]

Bollywood is proud to be Indian. Anime is proud to be Japanese. Hollywood is ashamed to be American.

[@hassathunter2464]

With its messaging, I say it becomes hyperfocused on domestic actually 🤔

[@Arizona-ex5yt]

How can animated movies cost $200 million?! Japanese anime movies like Demon Slayer Mugen Train (the highest grossing Japanese ever) cost a reported $15.7 million. Spirited Away cost less than $20 million. "Your Name" cost less than $8 million WITH marketing! Maybe Hollywood should go back to 2d animation but they'd still figure out a way to bloat the budgets with jobs like "animated intimacy coordinator." It is unsustainable.

[@stalhandske9649]

..and the director of Godzilla Minus One implied during a panel in Tokyo comic con that the media-circling figure of 15 million is exaggerated. "I wish it were that much" were his words.

[@scribesntribes]

Here's a thought... instead of spending $200 million on crap CGI, why don't they spend .35 cents on a pencil and learn to write a damn story! 🙄

[@hitandruncommentor]

Speak for yourselves, I'm enjoying watching people who declared me their enemy for no other reason than the traits I was born with immensely. The best part is that I did nothing. They destroyed themselves.

[@raymathews1474]

Something to look at is the refund from the UK. No matter what kind of turkey they've made, no matter how much it's going to lose, that fat check from the british treasury is guaranteed so long as the project is shown or released. Where's that check go? They're behaving like someone dedicated to optimizing their tax refund.

[@markiangooley]

It might sink the British film industry but the UK should get rid of those subsidies…

[@franciscooctavius5957]

I could listen to this conversation for hours. So intelligent and common sense driven. It amazes me how so many ppl- commentators like yourselves and fans- can see it but the ppl at the helm of these companies are just completely ignorant of the fact. Friggin typical Pedowood hubris. Shame. Thanx Drinker! Congrats on a great year for your brand and channel.

[@TalonsOfFire]

It's hard to believe what's happened in the mainstream movie world, especially from Disney. They need to clean house or something for movies to get good, and successful, again.

[@harbl99]

_Star Wars_ (1977) cost $11 million. Adjusted for inflation that's about $50 million. _Godzilla -1_ was made for less than $15 million. _Astartes_ was made by one guy. There's no excuse for Hollywood's ultra-inflated budgets.

[@sirsancti5504]

Hollywood, after reading the title: "Hold my coke!"

[@Attmay]

Hollywood was actually making better movies when Coca-Cola owned a movie studio!

[@makocrab2223]

I really love how Godzilla Minus One made everyone look and ask, “They made *THAT* with only 13 million?!” As great as the movie is, its financial frugalness is even more impressive. I hope it’s made a lot of studios rethink how they go about making movies.