Driving a ledge using a Discovery 5

Sometimes you find a ledge you just have to drive over. But how do you do that? Watch and find out how to use judicious amounts of momentum.
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[@amkovach]

I have a D5 as well. I have found that choosing the right terrain response and leaving the gearbox in D works best. The electronics are getting more and more clever with each new model. And momentum at the right spot is essential.

[@L2SFBC]

Unless you're a Luddite who has never driven one!

[@nealesmith1873]

Great video! I have a leaf sprung Jeep YJ and I used to wheel with people who had a mix of leaf sprung and coil sprung Jeeps TJs, mostly with open diffs at the time. The flexier TJ could do the diagonal approach but the YJ, with a much stiffer suspension pretty much had to go head on, otherwise it would quickly cross axle and lose traction. For my YJ, this problem was solved by getting ARB lockers.

[@operation4wheelz]

👍👍 There’s certainly no shame in having a couple of bumps at such an obstacle. Obviously experience helps a bit but having a few cracks just easing it on a bit more each time is a great technique to minimise damage. No need to go 4wd/247 and break stuff.

[@mikeattheimagebusiness6215]

Great advice Robert, it’s a real world issue which unfortunately folks often try and solve by just giving some beans!

[@L2SFBC]

A few beans are okay, it's when you shovel the beans onto your plate and scoff them without thinking is when the problems happen!

[@sassanlachini5383]

Danke!

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you for the Super Thanks!

[@sassanlachini5383]

Thanks for the good description and demonstration. Does this technique have a name?

[@L2SFBC]

Not really. "Controlled momentum" is about it.

[@DrivenHard]

@3:02 Couldn't you have switched out of ROCK mode to something else (SAND or GRAVEL) to allow for some more wheel slip to get up the ledge? I guess the only issue there is a bit more wear on the tires with the slipping, but that is what I have done in cases like this. Curious to hear your thoughts

[@L2SFBC]

Sand or GGS would massively reduce the brake traction control, so no. GGS would deaden the throttle when I need instant power. Rock or Mud/Ruts is best for that.

[@jerrymyahzcat]

Mud/Ruts or General mode here. Rock Crawl isn’t for loose stones/gravel. It’s for crawling literally over solid uneven rocky surfaces with grip.

[@AdrianKurian]

So the new LR vehicles have this issue of the centre diff/coupling disengaging? Is the problem present in the newest vehicles like the L460, L461 and L663. Why can’t they fix this issue via software. Vehicle control is absolutely crucial in off-road scenario. I always considered the UA/UA2 Ford Everest as a budget alternative for Land Rovers (with the exception of the BTC not being so great), previously I thought this was a limitation of only the Ford. Now I know why.. The place where they copied from is defective as well. A manually selectable centre locking 4wd is what these vehicles need. Btw wouldn’t airing down the rear tyres a little bit more than the front wheels help in such situations? At least for vehicles with high profile tyres? Because we’re literally crawling we wouldn’t risk debeading. 5-10 PSI depending on the profile

[@jerrymyahzcat]

1st issue is that Rock Crawl mode is for rocks. With grip. Rock Not loose stones/gravel like seen here. Would have been best in General mode or Mud Ruts. This is why the throttle is backed off by the system. 2nd - really should have had All Terrains for this surface not road tyres. 3rd - Why would you drive up a ledge like that in ANY vehicle when there is an easier (bypass) route available (like right next to it)? You don’t ever drive rough terrain when there’s a better, easier option. You won’t drive rough just rough you can.

[@L2SFBC]

Rock Crawl works great there. We also ran Mud/Ruts. Tyres were stock. We drove it to test the vehicle.

[@blue_beetle368]

Is there a way to get your books in the US? The link you share has Australia and New Zealand for shipping options.

[@L2SFBC]

not sold there sorry

[@mtower235]

Ain’t nothing wrong with stacking rocks if needed either.

[@drivingparadox]

Appeared to be driving through the brake? Would have liked to see another technique.

[@L2SFBC]

Not driving through brake

[@alanchristiansen2880]

I like to think of that not as using momentum to get up, as I feel it is not the momentum or even the energy you had before getting to the ledge that is the difference. I think of it as using >momentum to get grip.< When the back wheels bump into the ledge, if you applied no power at all. The tires would just compress, and the car bounce off. However while the tires are compressed in effect 'down' is now forward into that slope and the tires thus grip ... a lot. If there is power in the transmission that power turns (the rear wheel turning + grip) into a lifting force that lifts the rear end up, the front wheels pulling the car forward also help. It often takes very little forward momentum to get the grip, The trick to needing the least, is if the driver applies the power just as they're about to hit the slope. Even tiny bit late is quite different. Also knowing that is what happens, means we know that mild deflation allowing the tires to compress more means they grip for a longer time. A very useful skill that I practice on every easy ledge or even just driving over rocks on the track, Is trying/practicing to know the exact moment my rear wheels are about to hit the ledge/rock my front ones just went up. That way when it is a not easy ledge, I get the timing of applying power timed just right. (or at least I try to)

[@alanchristiansen2880]

as usual though, highly informative, I don't get to see my car do stuff like that from the outside.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, good points thank you!

[@user-ko9fb2pt5k]

Please tell this vehicle model year ?

[@L2SFBC]

2017

[@laloloco1925]

The technique shown at 5:02 of approaching at an angle and turning the wheel towards the obstacle works but puts a heavy strain on the axle / CV joints. This is particularly dangerous for IFS vehicles. It has to be used with the minimum amount of turning required to climb the obstacle and I would start by first trying to climb with my steering straight. The Disco5 4wd operation is a joke.

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, you are right, should have mentioned that.

[@jerrymyahzcat]

This vehicle is IFS/IRS and no the 4WD operation isn’t a Joke. LR 4WD is one of the best out there in a permanent 4WD setup.

[@paulelledge8977]

Did you try using HDC while in reverse?

[@GavinEarnshaw]

HDC has a minimum speed (ISTR 3.4mph/5kph) so you can't keep it slow enough without falling off that ledge and getting compression of the suspension and smacking the nose into the floor.

[@paulelledge8977]

@@GavinEarnshaw The minimum is gear dependent so I'm not sure what it is for reverse but it would prevent the front wheels from locking up and one could add some brake to control speed more.

[@GavinEarnshaw]

@@paulelledge8977 unfortunately I can't find the specific details for D5 but for D2 HDC targets about 3 mph in reverse. Electronically speaking the sensors require a minimum speed to work. My experience at our 4x4 site training (25+yr) in a new Def 110 using the same systems as the D5 suggested a minimum speed of about walking pace. The Def would not go slow enough on the steepest obstacles as HDC wouldn't work. Robert has a video on the LR transfer box disconnecting the centre diff lock when going from fwd to rev. As an aside the old Ford engined Defender would limit torque in low 1st and was faster than our old Disco TDI.

[@L2SFBC]

No, as others have said, HDC does not operate at that speed. Gavin explained it perfectly. As I said in another video, one cannot solve a centre-diff-unlock problem with HDC alone, and this is a good example of why not. I forgot I had this footage otherwise I would have added it to the CD unlock video. Any speed other than literally inching the car over would have smashed the front lip. Now add night, rain, and a corner as you are guided back by radio...you do not want to be doing that at 2km/h, it's simply far too fast. I am a big fan of HDC, but it is not the answer to everything.

[@cameronwood1994]

@@GavinEarnshaw Those old Tdi's (and even the 2.25's before that) are superb at going down hills. My Series III 2.25 petrol has so much engine braking that most of the time I'm having to use the accelerator just to achieve a speed in which HDC operates. The Td5 on the other hand, had so little engine braking you may as well be in neutral!

[@briantoner5247]

1:40 they unlock the centre diff when in reverse 1:58 😮😮😮😮

[@L2SFBC]

No we don't

[@gavinjewell5886]

Highway tyres on the discovery wouldn't help either

[@larryproud4541]

Tyre pressures and a more aggressive AT tyre tread are also factors here. Maybe 12 - 14 PSI and a KO2?

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, but I don't think either of them would help a huge degree.