SPOTTING THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CPTSD VS BORDERLINE PD (BPD PARENT VS CPTSD ADULT CHILD)

LINK FREE CHECKLIST: DOES MY PARENT HAVE BORDERLINE OR NARCISSISTIC TRAITS?
FREE COURSE: IDENTIFYING CHILDHOOD EMOTIONAL ABUSE AND NEGLECT
drkimsage.thin...
What might it look like if a parent had more severe BPD and their adult child had CPTSD?
This video uses the example of how a parent (who may have developed BPD from their own childhood trauma and/or genetics) might compare to the manifestation of CPTSD in their adult child --and explores the overlapping symptoms, as well as differences.
❤️❤️❤️As always, your experience of BPD or CPTSD might be reflected in some, all or none of the case study I am sharing in this video!!❤️❤️❤️❤️
BPD and CPTSD can both be very painful wounds for those diagnosed, as well as for those on the receiving end, and both are worthy of healing, support and treatment.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻💕💕💕
xo
dr kim sage
@drkimsage
www.drkimsage.com

[@bizarrebroz3424]

My entire family is on this spectrum somewhere. Ppl who grew up in a stable loving home are soooooooo lucky, wow, I can't even imagine

[@2degucitas]

Are there such people, or is it a myth?

[@Sarahwithanh444]

I was misdiagnosed with BPD before I was finally diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder and CPTSD. I found this extremely helpful in identifying the differences, thank you

[@BookWorm2369]

That is so frustrating to deal with the misdiagnosis and constantly dealing with therapists who lack awareness of neurodivergent traits.

[@polarpalmwv4427]

49. Male. College educated. Had a career for over 2 decades (that I despised from the start). BPD Mother who denies having any mental illness still at age 73 and still with both of her sons having become estranged from her. Passive father who died 20 years ago in his 50s. (I believe due to chronic stress. BPD mom was emotionally cruel to all of us.) Socially isolated in early childhood. Zero friendships or trusting relationships for the first over 30 years of my life. Currently married and with my husband for 16 years but he is the last person in my life. Family has either died or been estranged due to Mom's BPD. Developed a terrible habit of dating chat in the 1990s that never let up that I finally revealed to someone (my husband) this morning in a nighttime fit of shame on my part - so my marriage may be ending soon. No friends. I literally don't know what to do. I have lost everything because of the childhood trauma and, unfortunately, didn't work out all of this until these past few unemployed years. I feel like I am mostly c-PTSD but I also feel like I have some of the unique BPD traits as well - such as self-harming behaviors (like infidelity - like denying myself things - self-isolation as a form of self-punishment...). I appear normal to the casual observer but that goes away quickly since I never had an opportunity to develop social skills. Heck, it was only a few days ago that I learned that oversharing personal information is a bad social skill. To me it was always just being open about myself. Sadly, no one tells you when you mess up socially - they just avoid you because they assumed you learned social skills when everyone else did - as a kid. I never had a time of happiness. I hated myself before I could even talk and was PETRIFIED of strangers by the time I finally met another kid that wasn't a family member at 4 years old. I tried therapy/psychiatry and was met with accusations that I was lying about my condition. Dealt with doctors who don't believe me because I am too well spoken and educated. My world has been slowly decaying since birth - but the decay has accelerated lately and I fear soon becoming homeless since my mental health has made me too scared to work for fear of losing my temper at the first sign of maltreatment or abuse at work (which might be perceived and not even real). This video did a GREAT job clarifying these two conditions - BPD and c-PTSD. It bothers me that while I think I am more on the c-PTSD side of things, I also have many BPD-unique characteristics. HOW IN THE HECK AM I EVER GOING TO SURVIVE THIS WITHOUT MONEY OR SOCIAL SUPPORT? -- I both hate myself (c-PTSD) AND fear abandonment (BPD). I would not wish the hell of an entire life of this on anyone. If there really is a physical Hell, my life is WORSE - just a chronic, life-long, slow drip of one trauma-trigger after another, day after day, decade after decade....all due to to the ways in which my growing young brain misinterpreted my emotionally crazy mother. Unaware of the cause. Miserable. ALWAYS. I don't think I have gone more than 2 days EVER without severe depression and chronic anxiety. Forever I have felt like I am in a glass box with my VERY LOUD inner critic (who drowns out any actual real world sounds), while the world goes on just outside of my reach. I want to belong but never know how to make that happen. So I run...or freeze if I can't run.

[@JT-un7dc]

I'm just finding out about my cptsd from my bpd mother. I've always had an inner rotten critique that curses me in every situation.. Kim's videos are helping me with insights into my childhood trauma.Finally I'm learning after nearly 50 years how to deal with a lack of self-love in my mind. Never realized how much carried with me from childhood.

[@hamannkr]

You are not alone and there is a way out of the spiral, first step is acknowledging your trauma and your coping mechanism, you can do it ❤❤❤

[@jujubean914]

With a couple exceptions you just told my life's story. It's heart breaking and comforting all at once. No matter what happens you are not alone.

[@mandyguy6919]

You’re not alone babe. I know it’s HARD, but let’s try to heal so we can know peace. I pray for all of us. For deep healing in our hearts. I pray for us all to have genuine self love and worthiness.

[@carolynmurphy3697]

Try meditating

[@comingforthattoothbrush9896]

Just on the topic of knowing who you are with CPTSD vs borderline: in some cases the parents' splitting occurs with the same person. So while one moment you are bad and horrible and awful, the next (when you're somehow meeting their needs) you are angelic, perfect, the ideal child - but you know that love is conditional and won't last. This can definitely create uncertainty for the child around their sense of self, so while shame is the dominant factor, for children of borderlines CPTSD can certainly involve some identity disturbance too. Thanks for making these videos, they're really good any very informative.

[@bluecoffee8414]

Yes.

[@MF-tw2dh]

Okay so I've watched a million videos about this, trying to differentiate between those two and you Dr. Kim has said some brilliant things I've never heard before. After seeing too many psychologists and psychiatrists on youtube, you are the one that really put all things in order. So thank you very much, this video was so so helpful!

[@DrKimSage]

Thank you so much! I am so happy you found it helpful!💕🙏🏻

[@theunbreaking]

Ditto and she’s fantastic

[@helenayamez]

Ditto. For the last couple of years I've been trying to find out what's been wrong with me for most of my life. I've looked into all sorts of things, one being autism & found that even though I have a lot of the traits, it doesn't quite sit right. There's something else or something else in addition to it. This video has explained what that something else could be. Agree, Dr Kim is brilliant.

[@wendi2819]

I hope in my lifetime the terrible stigma surrounding BPD is wiped out! CPTSD and BPD seem very similar. Every one deserves to heal with both diagnosis.

[@par2788]

I totally agree. People around BPD diagnosis are too terifeid. It's like cursing. And yet CPTSD is more romantized. Still both suffer and both deserve attention and treatment.

[@tiablasangoriti8347]

I am a survivor of repetitive violent Traumas. Most of it came from a BPD Birth Mother. The time to heal is now. I will not let my CPTSD prevent me from having peace and tranquility in any department in my life today. Therapy is a good thing.

[@DrKimSage]

Bravo Bill:)!!!

[@petekdemircioglu]

👏👏👏

[@-iloveyou]

CPTSD is bad… i got screwed up pretty bad in the military for not turning a blind eye to heinous crimes… combat is easy… but having my life destroyed for doing the right thing… it’s been ten years and i’m still really messed up, and its really hard.

[@Gloroxsocks]

this is literally me and my mum, i have cptsd and havent made any new friends in a long damn time as this has come to light and have left all relationships I felt unsafe in, which has left me friendless, bc with two unstable parents and no safe adults anywhere had meant I only knew how to make relationships with toxic people, ughh i hope i can find it in myself to leave my comfort zone because i LOVE talking to people and being social. thank u sm!

[@enlightndark6671]

Because our PERSONAL BOUNDARIES are weak, we need to let go of seeking our self-worth in the judgements & opinions of others & develop own self care & self respect. For cPTSD who suffer social anxiety, it is very helpful to attend group events or join hobby or religious or political or charity groups WITH A PURPOSE. The reason for this is because instead of focusing on intense personal socializing, the group focuses on an activity. Groups working together for a purpose build relationships that are softer, more indirect, giving people with cPTSD a chance to develop HEALTHIER personal boundaries. SELF CARE is the key to healthy relationships. When we express our needs FIRST, then others wont exploit us as easily. So think about what you are interested in, then join a group & practice your interest with others. If someone says something shitty, notice it but dont engage, practice just LETTING THEM GO & keep focusing on the GROUP'S PURPOSE. Letting go of toxic people requires we become indifferent like smooth rocks that their polluted water cannot penetrate & just flows right over. Ignore the toxic people's behavior. We cannot focus on toxic people & expect them to go away, they love attention. Leave the shitty people & find better ones !So lets focus on OUR NEEDS, our creativity, our interests our own LIFE MISSION & find NEW people who SHARE our vision & interests The only way we can change is if we have a firm focus on WHERE we are going, make a PLAN & move towards your truth, your passions, your self-care!

[@sirrantsalott]

Thank you for this, I recently lost my dad this year and it opened my eyes a lot to the unworkability that this disorder brings to the home…I cannot feel anything but compassion and sadness, for myself, and especially for family members who are in the fog of my mother…how I reject and abhor everything that could have happened to her to make her this way…I know she doesn’t ‘exist’ only a figment of my imagination, but she is my birth mom and it’s so hard to see her in a clinical way but it is the only way, at least at this time in my life; that I can detach myself from her…oh mom how o wish I was there to protect you….I’m sorry I could not fix you and ..I’m happier without you I’m so sorry mom…. :(

[@treasurebessler7213]

I'm in the process of disentangling my identity from my BPD mother. The biggest difference I see between us is, the vindictive behavior and when I get triggered I apologize when I come back to myself. My mother says things like "I'm sorry you're angry".

[@polarpalmwv4427]

YES! "I'm sorry if what I did caused you pain." - How about, "I am sorry that I did x because it hurt you and I will try to do y in the future to try to make it not happen again." - My BPD mom - maybe yours, doesn't EVER apologize - ever - not once - for anything - but expects her children to apologize OFTEN.

[@omarra6781]

I remember when I was a teen my mother loudly stating "I'm sorry. I'm not God!" That's the only "apology" I've ever gotten in my 55 years. LOL

[@marytaylor7892]

My bpd mom never apologized and when I said I can‘t deal with her behaviour and that I want to move out she got so furious that she commanded that from now on I have to get on my knees every day and BEG for her to accept my apology. She did not let me get out, she locked me inside but some days later I just randomly escaped and ran for my life lol Sorry, I just had to get that out of my head. I hope you are doing better and that you have distance to your abusers so that you can concentrate on yourself. You are worth it! You are worth to be happy.

[@chrissy9876]

@Dinah N I don’t think it’s for bad people. I think BPD tends to look at themselves as a victim more and not accept responsibility where Cptsd thinks it’s everything is their fault (esp if growing up with BPD parents who blame others all the time)

[@asmith5007]

My Mother is very damaged and was left in a home at the age of 5 She was around the house when I growing up but I was ignored or Not given any love or attention ever, it had caused me to never feel good enough or worthy of love so I was taken advantage of in Relationships, and suffered extreme abuse My Mother Married 3 times and always needed a Man in her life it's quite sad she cut her Family off years ago because she Married again she is very Unstable

[@cristinecornell9884]

I have CPTSD and this has been one of the most helpful videos I’ve seen on the subject. Well done!

[@iamjoyt]

Same & agreed…

[@BaskingInObscurity]

Thank you for this comparison. I've been diagnosed with a few things for a long time, including CPTSD. But the last few years I've been working on understanding clinical narcissism and autism while not quite understanding what BPD is. You clarified essential points for me. I kinda wanted to give my mom a seemingly "lesser" degree of evil, but as far as I've ever been able to tell she doesn't worry about abandonment. She's just a vulnerable narcissist who was raised by a covert/self-righteous narcissist (who was also daily in my life), in a chain of various iterations through the maternal line. Not that it was the plan, but I was being trained to be a narcissist as well until in my tweens I developed friendships with healthy people who liked me and coached me when I needed to unlearn things. I'm grateful for the people who rescued me on time. I'm 54 and still discovering notions I harbor that come from that childhood environment.

[@DrKimSage]

Hi All! I know there is so much going on right now, so I debated posting, but decided to post this video and hope you will find it helpful. Please feel free to add anything or share:). And, please take very good care of yourselves❤️🙏🏻🙏🏻. I have part 5 (relational instability) of spotting BPD to post and then I am doing a series on: ❤️❤️❤️Relationships:❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Cheating and Affairs Attachment and Childhood Strategies Which Can Destroy Our Relationships What to Stop Doing In Your Relationships! xo thank you so much for watching and posting!💕💕💕💕🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@frankov2000]

That was really brilliant and empathic. You made the differences of BPD and CPTSD, causes, symptoms and treatment very clear. I was wrongly diagnosed with BPD back in the early nineties, but it turns out I have CPTSD, have been diagnosed and am being treated for it (with EMDR which is incredibly effective). Your video has made it even clearer what I have been dealing with, and yes, it's never too late to start the healing journey (I am 61). One thing I would suggest is to slow down; it's quite deep and emotive stuff to take in, and I found my self having to stop and go back (mild dissociation perhaps??). 'Love', both for one's self and for others that have been in and shaped your life, is so much to do with understanding, exceptance and compassion.

[@strawberryme08]

I want to do EMDR but am having a hard time finding someone who not only does it but also that doesn't charge $300 a session! :(

[@Mmmeguni]

Thank you so much. My mom has BPD and I worry I do, but the CPTSD definitions fit me much more accurately. Going to try and find a therapist!

[@DrKimSage]

You are very welcome! Therapy can be so healing - I would recommend searching for someone who specializes in trauma informed therapies:). Sending you support and strength on your journey!!

[@skylarclayton6427]

Thank you for this! Recently made myself get a new therapist and she's leaning towards me having tendencies of both BPD & CPTSD from childhood trauma and this... Really helped me understand why she's thinking along those lines. :) I truthfully didn't even know CPTSD existed so this is super helpful.

[@WoodenFeather-xm3vl]

Thank you, Dr. Sage, for this video. I have been on a healing journey over two years after an event that triggered CPTSD. It was severe enough for me to do a deep dive into why my nervous system was so affected by what happened. I really appreciate your calm demeanor and explanation. Your video is more helpful that a year of talk therapy. Thank you.

[@caitcupples]

I really believed for a long time that I had BPD. But I think it's CPTSD. My childhood was traumatic and my adult life is spent mostly distrusting others and keeping myself protected from others but feeling like I'm bad deep down inside.

[@stephanier6783]

I'm confused by your statements? Is there a typo in your comment, or did you actually mean that you *are* feeling like you're bad deep down inside? More importantly, I'm so sorry you had a traumatic upbringing, and I hope you are doing the self-care you deserve.

[@caitcupples]

@@stephanier6783 no typo, yea I felt innately flawed. It's something I'm working hard to get over. And I appreciate that, life has most definitely gotten better for me now though. I have a much better, fuller life.

[@stephanier6783]

@@caitcupples I appreciate your reply. I have an older brother and sister who have BPD (our mother is a narcissist) and both have really struggled with that core feeling of "I'm bad" because that is how our perfectionistic mother treated them as little ones. Even as toddlers, she expected them to be perfect and beat them with her hand or a belt if they weren't perfect. Both used alcohol to numb those feelings of being unworthy. Both of them are genuinely kind, non-materialistic people who would give you the shirt off their backs. Our mother is the person who destroyed their lives, sadly. Both of them described their childhoods as "feeling miserable" and those miserable feelings carried on into adulthood, sadly. They both acted a lot worse in adulthood than they ever did in childhood, and it has cost them both dearly, and taken years to regroup and begin to heal from the traumas they endured. Please just remember you are worthy of love and respect from others, and you are worthy of self-respect and self-love. Wishing you well as you continue on your path to healing.

[@caitcupples]

@@stephanier6783 thank you 💗 I'm sorry to hear that about your siblings! I hope they are able to move on and live better lives!!!

[@stephanier6783]

@@caitcupples Thank you

[@StrGzr101]

I'm glad that I've lived long enough to find answers. They help. A lot.

[@a.c.4465]

I’m glad you’re here ❤

[@StrGzr101]

@@a.c.4465 Likewise.

[@Wimpiethe3]

I'm a 34 yo man, two chaotic abusive parents. Both different abuse and independently of each other. For years with no escape. I internalised alot, especially with the npd parent. One npd for sure. Other who even knows. How you describe cptsd. I was saying yes on every point. The first video I have come across that really explains how I feel. The why's behind the feelings, not just the symptoms. I hope the diagnostic process I have scheduled will show this too. It's exhausting to not know and not being able to navigate out of this. Thank you for your work :)

[@madhappy77]

I've been anxiously tiptoeing into BPD solo research ever since I took an attachment styles quiz and learned that I have disorganized/anxious avoidant attachment, which is common mostly in people with BPD. I've honestly been terrified of figuring out some day that I may have BPD, but whenever I look at descriptions of the symptoms/behaviors, they've been just off enough that it doesn't seem accurate for me...once I learned about CPTSD I felt more certain that was me, but this video really confirms it for me in my mind. I am CERTAIN at this point that my maternal grandmother has severe BPD which she passed on to my mom, who had a traumatic childhood and was emotionally abused by both parents, who then passed on some of these traits to me. I believe my mom most likely has a more moderate case of BPD and have always been deeply uncomfortable confronting her emotional abuse because overall she is such an amazing mom and we have an incredibly close relationship, but I feel like I've started to recognize some of her patterns (unable to be alone) in my little sister and now I wonder what's going on with her as she's dated many men who also seem like they may have BPD (they all were only ever diagnosed w/ severe depression tho). I thankfully had a really good childhood for the most part (except for the times my grandparents emotionally abused and neglected me while watching me after school, or when my mom had rage fits screaming and smashing things on occasion) up until I had some major, life-changing trauma affect me around age 11. Despite so much of my behavior being a desperate cry for help, I was very anti-therapy and would refuse help until I started seeking out therapy advice on my own online, finally getting therapy in college once I had the insurance to cover it. After all this time, I only have a depression and anxiety diagnosis, but I feel more certain every day that I'm narrowing in on my full diagnoses. I think I have CPTSD, ADHD, OCD, episodic depression (including PMDD), and severe anxiety. I think the OCD and CPTSD are what kept me afraid of therapy- I was terrified if I ever told anyone how disturbing my intrusive thoughts were that I would be locked in a mental hospital. But I've never genuinely wanted or tried to hurt myself, despite suicidal ideation and thoughts of self-harm coming and going depending on the severity of my depression. It's so frustrating how difficult it is to figure this all out, so I am eternally grateful to doctors like you who make this information digestible and accessible. Thank you!!!!!!

[@Chakrada1]

Brilliant - this is the first resource I have found online that frames the distinction between cptsd and bpd in terms of a relationship between people who respectively manifest one and the other. In my case my mother's bpd was the world in which I developed cptsd. I went low-2-no contact with her a long time ago; I maintain that I finally escaped from her, she maintains I abandoned her. I have subsequently become estranged (my initiative) from siblings too (we were a single parent family). The family narrative continues to construct me as bad for having "left" - that I did so out of selfishness, hate, malice, and denial of who I really am (really very bad indeed). As alluded to in Dr. Sage's talk, one of the characteristics of bpd is externalisation of intense emotions in a way that powerfully resists self-awareness, and I think in the context of parent-child/bpd-cptsd relationships it is perhaps the scapegoated child who experiences this as a chronically repetitive pattern - endless futile attempts to share some kind of insight and understanding.

[@DrKimSage]

Thank you so much for sharing, I am so sorry for all you've endured🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@oldcrone]

I was the scapegoat. What I realized from the past is how my mother and sisters never respected me as a mature capable adult. They were always bossing me around after living on my own for many years.

[@bextree]

My therapist and I have been discussing borderline patterns in my parent and it's been really challenging to process, but these videos have been helping a lot. Thank you.

[@bethpage6696]

Wow. I was diagnosed with CPTSD and I didn't believe it. I've had extensive in patient testing and therapy volunteeraily. Diagnosis major depressive episode and panic disorder. This video is so helpful to me because both parents were NOT safe, and I do have fear of relationships in general.

[@jtinkleburt]

Thank you so much for clarifying. I have cptsd and I'm pretty sure my mom was bpd, but I'm not 100%. I was starting to wonder if I was bpd because of my fear of abandonment, but this clears it up. I never realized bpd had a genetic component.

[@StephLovesLife007]

This is the BEST informative video differentiating CPTSD and BPD! Thank you so much Dr. Sage for showcasing these differences!

[@norismendoza4503]

This video is full of thought provoking insights! The presentation of characteristics as well as the root perspectives was very eye opening. One thing that stood out for me is the difference in the driving force ie; shame based vs fear based and their manifestions. Though subtle in nuance these distinctions make all the difference. I really appreciate what an excellent communicator you are. Thank you.

[@chibinyra]

Oof... Thank you... Good timing for me to see this right now. I'm the child now 39 and I am currently estranging my parents... even called mother by their full first name to get them to just leave me alone and stop needling. Glad it worked, I hope it channeled the voice of their mother...

[@tambij]

I really appreciate your videos. I am a “New Subscriber”. Everything you say in this video & all the ones I have watched it as if you are speaking to me directly. I had a tough childhood. My parents divorced when I was 8 years old. ( I do not remember them together ). My Mother was cheating on my Father. I do remember that. After She divorced my Father She moved to a different state. I am the oldest & had two younger sisters. When my Mom left, She took my middle sister & left myself & my younger 2 year old sister on my Dad’s porch, with a box of clothes. Although this was very difficult, I wanted to live with my Dad & he raised us as a single father. I feel very greatful that he was there for us as best he knew how. I am as a adult, dealing with almost everything you have mentioned in your videos. I self isolate, I have diabetes, kidney disease, I have had extreme anxiety, depression, migraines, etc……. I am in a very unhealthy marriage! Have been married for over 25 years. He is Very Controlling & Extremely critical of me & everything I do, say, don’t say, it’s just bad!! I don’t feel like a confident woman anymore. He is always “correct & things always have to be his was”. Nothing I do is good enough! Even when I feel good about something I have done. This makes him very upset & he takes that success & happiness away from me. On March 31, 2022 my oldest daughter passed away. She was my oldest of 3 daughters. It has been so devastating to me & my life feels “out of control”. Do you have any suggestions or things that I can do to free myself from feeling like, I have failed my Daughter & myself?? Thank you so much for all your wonderful videos. 🙏 💔 😢 💫

[@wandalester8624]

Wow, my life living between foster homes, (first one at four, l am emotionally frozen inside her black furry coat, we are standing outside her car, we never got back in her car, and we didn't go into the brick building), but we had to, because l never spent another night with her. I only spent twenty -four hours with her. She gave me something l never had, ( a hug with love and security) that hug saved my life and helped me survive my life living off and on with very broken parents. After reading these comments, my C-PTSD isn't so bad. I am 72 years old now and know Jesus as my Saviour and will someday be with He in heaven! Beyond Blessed!

[@jalyndoestech534]

EXTREMELY HELPFUL. KEEP POSTING!

[@goldieh7121]

Thank you! This differentiation was very helpful for me. I've recognized that my dad is a covert narcissist that tries very hard to be seen as a "nice" guy. Im not sure if my mom is a narcissist or has BPD. My dad created so much anxiety in her that she took out mostly on me in order to keep up appearances to everyone else. I think both of my parents fear being seen as bad, so much that they need to always be seen as the "good" ones. Any lack of appreciation from others is seen as an attack on them. I have a lot of the anxiety and some other characteristics that my mother has, so I have wondered if I may have BPD. Your differentiation between BPD and CPTSD help me to see that I suffer from the latter. Your descriptions of the fawn, freeze and collapse responses, in other videos, were also very helpful and very validating. Thanks again!

[@MimiMimi-yt6mp]

Thanks so much. You helped me understand a lot .. I was diagnosed with cpsd however was never really taught, or told the difference between certain things like you just did in this video. I have been in therapy for 16 years just watching some of your videos is helping me understand. Truly thank you from the bottom of my heart! Take care 🙏

[@kirstenlamensdorf6471]

Wow! This was hugely helpful. This is an incredible breakdown/comparison of the two. Thank you for making this!

[@DrKimSage]

You are so welcome - thank you for watching!🙏🏻💕

[@guesswho5790]

I think defining a personality disorder as a whole will also help to tell these disorders apart. It's about the way you see the world, and yourself, and how you relate to it. Whereas in CPTSD you have PTSD over other people's behaviors and relationships in general. I think CPTSD can trigger a BPD. I know I struggled with both and a lot of the symptoms of the BPD became so much more manageable after I took care of the trauma. But I still get dysregulated, paranoid, self-loathing, splitting, self-destructive... When the BPD is triggered.

[@alicia.george]

Hey thank you! I thought I had BPD but it could just CPTSD

[@chubbyhippy]

Same. ✌🤎

[@BB-nz5sk]

Me too!!

[@Eric-tj3tg]

C-PTSD most certainly may include characteristics and traits of BPD, MDD, NPD, Bipolar Disorder, all anxiety disorders, etc. Childhood is the time that the personality become crystalized (4-5 years of age), and our personality is built in response to our environment. So a "personality re-ordering" is almost certainly the outcome of childhood trauma which comes from our FOO's. "Just C-PTSD" may be helpful if you're unduly blaming/shaming yourself, but the road to healing remains arduous. I wish you the best, and am glad that you are relieved by this diagnosis.

[@jillwhatley994]

I wish my bpd mom would be open to understanding this. I can’t even approach mine about this, at this point. And I’m 50 y/o! I’m still that little girl inside. My poor mom. 💔This video is about us.

[@ezpz7143]

You explained this very difficult distinction between the two very well ! Thank you !!

[@gaynorslater8881]

I cannot believe I’ve found this site. Thank you so much for your invaluable information. ❤

[@brittanyismebb]

This is so helpful. I really needed to know this. Thank you. You spoke a bit fast in some places. I rewound to comprehend everything you said. Very very informative! Thank you so much.

[@DrKimSage]

You are welcome and I apologize:). I know I talk too fast - lol - I am working on it!!😃

[@ryanharrissyd]

Huge appreciation for this video.

[@pilis.5681]

CPTSD. Thank you for this video. Have been mulling this over a lot, as I was raised by a BDP parent

[@DrKimSage]

Thank you for sharing:)

[@kimbers1238]

U absolutely explain this better than anyone I've heard.

[@scottcarlson2294]

Cpstd so that's what it is..I've watched so many videos over the past 6mo yours are definitely the best I've found and the way you explain makes so much sense..thank you

[@kristypennington3548]

This has explained everything THANK YOU

[@andrewphillips-hird3761]

Thank you for the insightful video. I have quiet BPD (although it wasn't always a quiet presentation - that's something that's come with insight and gradually learning to control behavioural impulses) but because I experience very intense issues around shame and I don't self-harm, in some ways it looks a little bit like CPTSD - which would be particularly odd as I don't have any 'active' capital T traumata. What really clarifies for me that BPD is indeed the correct diagnosis is that although I find relationships unsafe, that is because I experience abandonment as persecutory - so really it is not the relationship I find unsafe, rather that my fear of experiencing that persecutory abandonment yet again is so intense that it actually prevents me from even entering into relationships to begin with. Apart from that possibility, I essentially can trust others not to mistreat me - at times more easily than I should - even if I do experience abandonment as a betrayal. So while someone with CPTSD may expect to be mistreated in a relationship (while obviously desiring to be treated well), in my case (and probably those of others with BPD) I expect that I will be treated well, but also that I will be cease to be "treated" at all and that when that inevitably occurs, it will be excruciatingly painful.

[@oldcrone]

My mother was always raging at us. She would hit us with kitchen utensils and or smack us around.

[@chrissy9876]

I watched your CPTSD video made before this one and I literally check off every single thing you talked about in that video. However, watching this one talking about CPTSD can look more like “I’m bad I’m not worthy etc…” as now as an adult who has had children of my own I don’t see myself in that way as I may have when I was younger. I now basically just know that I can’t count on anyone but myself. I want to be left alone by everyone and I’m super okay with out any kind of meaningful interaction with people because any “meaningful interaction” is all for show anyway. No one really means it. They all end up hurting and/or letting me down at some point anyway so I just don’t let people get close so I don’t have to deal with the deep emotions once they inevitably hurt me. I feel quite deeply but I find I have learned to just numb out emotions in the intense moments. When something crazy is going on I just blank out and I’m almost appalled by others crazy outbursts and just find myself waiting for it to be over. I’m typically pretty logical and able to make sound decisions when I should be experiencing intense emotions. Then later weather it’s days or weeks or months I will break down when I’m alone and there’s no chance of being interrupted. I hate crying in front of others, yet I get urges to cry with every emotion - except sadness. I cry when I’m angry, when I’m happy, when I’m stressed… but never really just for sadness in and of itself. I’m very empathetic to others and all my friends I’ve ever had always referred to me as their armchair therapist bc I listen and can often see where they’re coming from but can also offer an opposing viewpoint in a loving way. I just don’t know how I can be so empathetic to others yet I check out on my own emotions and become numb the moment something should effect me. Sorry if this was long 😣

[@stopwars8642]

Good explainations the difference, Seems more discussions have been around Narccisim, Most dont understand BPD and Cptsd or is talked about as well. Can a Narc also be a BPD? I never felt it was may fault in my situtation. Just unstability from parents, causing trusting issues

[@Chucanelli]

SUPER helpful, thank you!!

[@maxinecashel1248]

I know I’m not borderline, my mother loved, missed my younger, dead sister. I don’t feel I had a childhood. My mother would go,”talk about me” to any one she knew would support her. Ca

[@user-ib2bt4ck7y]

The more you describe the differences between BPD and C-PTSD, the more I am convinced they are the same thing. With BPD it does not need to be caused by trauma, but it often times is. And when it is, it looks like an almost perfect mixture between cptsd and bpd. BUT OF COURSE- bpd is much more stigmatized than CPTSD because in the world of mental health, we LOVE to think black and white. We love to idealize the victims of abuse, and demonize the abusers. When anger and hostility is turned inward on oneself rather than others, it's seen as altruistic, but they are two manifestations of the same thing. My mother and father were both Borderline, and both were alcoholics. My dad almost beat my mom to death a few times, and my mom almost killed herself multiple times in front of her children. Being in the midst of constant chaos, never having my needs met as a child with ADHD has made me a terrible person. I have the emotional intelligence of a child, I hate people and want to be alone forever, but I also need love and want to share myself with people who understand me and care enough to make an effort. I have been emotionally and physically abusive to partners. I have been severely BPD, but it was all caused by trauma and the normalization of many different forms of abuse throughout all of my formative years. I am so tired of people acting like being traumatized makes you this battered, scared person who can do no wrong and couldn't hurt a fly. Many who have BPD have terribly complex traumatic pasts and their disorder makes sense in that context. If all you know is abuse and instability, you're much more prone to recreating that all throughout your life. It's a hellish cycle. The differences between CPTSD and BPD are so minute they are obviously made up by someone who wished to separate themselves from a terribly stigmatized and painful disorder. Trauma healing is beneficial for anyone with BPD, so much of dialectical behavior therapy is congruent with Bessel Van Der Kolk's approach on healing trauma in the body. Mindfulness and reframing are helpful for almost all mental health disorders.

[@BeckyTheBabe]

I can get high highs and low lows, but as soon as I feel happy I automatically feel like people prefer me sad. Like they don’t like my sense of humour, or they see that I’m happy so it’s easier to be cold to me. I don’t know I love people, I feel most happy when I’m helping someone (I work as a caregiver). But even with my residents if I feel like they like me too much I pull away and will get other staff to do their cares. I don’t like to be too vulnerable but I am fairly open. My parents were both very abusive, physically, verbally and emotionally to my sisters and I. I thought I broke the curse, but I find that I can be quite explosive at times myself.

[@jenniferstanley2282]

Thank you. This clarified a LOT for me, which is huge. Thank you.

[@tetrahexaeder6312]

A professor of mine suggested that PTSD from childhood traumas may always be titled as Borderline Personality Disorder while multiple traumas in adult life should be named CPTSD. Because at the core of BPD there is a bonding trauma, leading to insecure and disorganized attachment styles. There are 30% of people affected by BPD who haven't endured any kind of trauma. At least that is what statistics say but maybe those 30% just can't remember their trauma or wouldn't consider the environment in which they were raised as traumatic although it was. CPTSD on the other hand can always occur in every age and can lead to changes in personality and world view. It was at least a suggestion by him. What do you think about it? I personally think that CPTSD is at the core of many, many disorders. Primarily Personality Disorders. I think pretty much every personality disorder stems from a complex childhood trauma in one way or another. And Borderline, Narcissism, Dependent, Obsessive Compulsive, Avoidant Personality Disorder whatever are just different ways of coping with this root trauma. Like a defence mechanism for the traumatic events. Some people react with a bloated ego, others with (self-)destructive rage, some with avoiding everything and others with being overly obsessive compulsive, neat and tidy. But they are all traumatized at the core. I'd also think that it depends on the kind of trauma. I think being shamed and ridiculed often leads to avoidance while having a feeling of losing control mostly leads to obsessive-compulsive traits. But I suppose it is also linked to your temperament how you cope with these things. After all it is just a theory.

[@happygucci5094]

I agree and I think younger people studying personality disorders will do important work in creating a new psychological etymological understanding of these disorders... I am really not comfortable calling these cluster B organisations personality disorders - it seems judgement based. There are literal physiological, neurological differences. I appreciated this comment.

[@don-eb3fj]

I see a lot of rationale to support both these comments, and have seen similar observations posted on other sites like Schizoid Angst YT channel. I have heard references to the effect that many psychologists including Judith Herman believe that nearly all psychological problems can be explained by the CPTSD model and the DSM "reduced to the size of a thin pamphlet". It seems logical that with a few rare exceptions personality "disorders" occur on a spectrum with less severe adaptations and their respective "symptoms" differ based on genetic and epigenetic factors, temperament, and severity and specific context of attachment disruption and other environmental factors. Some have suggested that conditions such as Cluster A ( schizoid PD, schizotypal PD, and Schizophrenia) appear to occur on a spectrum and stem from a neuro-atypical physiology, similar to Autism Spectrum Disorder. It will be interesting to see how further research influences the way the mental health profession changes in the future. In my opinion it would be most productive and humane to spend more time and resources to investigate the commonality of cause, (and the subsequent removal of social stigma) than on a continued expansion of the DSM on the basis of describing the multitude of ways a person may present the scars of abuse. Perhaps then the curse of intergenerational trauma, and so much unnecessary suffering, could finally be prevented.

[@Dani-lc9hq]

I agree, I can't really believe that someone without any trauma would develop personality disorders, these are all adaptations to survive. Some people may have a higher likelihood genetically or need less severe experiences to develop it than others, but I highly doubt 30 percent have no trauma, I think they have just amnesia around it, are in denial or don't understand the emotional abuse as something that was wrong, in these cases they will have a higher likelihood to pass on their trauma.... To think that someone would have severe abandonment fears without ever having experienced early attachment woundings, at least emotional abandonment or an unsafe environment were this was a possibility growing up is pretty insane. There is always a cause.

[@mikekennedy304]

I keep getting diagnosed with cptsd but after watching this video I really think it’s bpd… my symptoms are more suicidal and fear of abandonment, external validation…

[@3ni20]

I feel like shit, my psychiatrist diagnosed me with quiet BPD but I don't know if I have it I don't wanna accept it, etc etc feel like I also have or I'm more likely to have CPTSD, etc I don't know my life is falling apart 😿

[@anlantis5986]

Thank you so much, It really means a lot to me that you took the time to make this video.

[@rosemarypetrilli582]

I have both of these! I have been around all the sickest people all my life!

[@FallonStone-rh2jw]

I appreciate your words very much.

[@mudskippa8958]

CPTSD can also have suffer huge ababdonment wounds. I did, because my parents divorced and I was left with my NPD mum. Caretaker divorce, death, or other separation can cause a massive ababdonment wound too. But, you're right about how a bpd or cpstd handles that is different. I think there is much more severe dissociation in BPD, so much so that you could call it a case of multiple personality like NPD, where there is a "mask" state and another state (often raging and punitive to self or other). CPSTD doesn't have this much dissociation. We know who we essentially are and when we've done something wrong.

[@kristypennington3548]

This makes so much sense

[@rosemarypetrilli582]

I don't believe there is any healing for these disorders! I've been in therapy for decades, and I am no better off! Now, I prefer to be alone, I cannot trust anyone! My daughter doesn't want anything to do with me but I didn't have a bad relationship with her, other people talked her into not bothering with me! She was brainwashed since she was 3.

[@petekdemircioglu]

I Have been incorrectly diagnosed with BPD than. I have CPTSD.

[@Lyrielonwind]

I don't want to repair any relationship with my family and frienemies. It's the worst idea to offer myself for chronic depredation. I rather stay alone. It's not that I don't want to get along with people; I find most people incapable to have a simple and polite conversation. I think individualism and social media have made adults see interactions like a threat, especially after the pandemic. I see young people more natural and less robotic unless they are hooked to electric devices. We are losing the idea of collectivities. It's all against all.

[@ruby-qv5bd]

Thank you so much for this very helpful video. This was packed with so much information and it is so generous of you to put this out here. I'm going to watch it again and again because sometimes my mind wants to wonder and I have to pull it back and focus on the task. This video is beautiful! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@svenolson2483]

Thank you so much for sharing what you have learned. I found it helpful. I would have loved to hear more about the difference between a complex as is the case with CPTSD and a personality disorder. In any event though, thank you!

[@mamablue007]

My grandmother had an alcoholic father and abusive mother. My grandmother got delivered by Christ but of course that doesn't mean symptoms go away immediately. I think my grandmother had BPD from her parents abuse and I think my mother suffers from CPTSD. My mother definitely has the symptoms of reliving trauma, avoiding situations, hyperarousal (this is a big one because she gets startled very easily), lack of trust in self and others, difficulty sleeping, negative self view, emotional regulation issues and some relationship issues. I want to try to help. Maybe I could get her to go to therapy. I'm not sure honestly.

[@tiablasangoriti8347]

I just love your research Dr Kim. 😍

[@DrKimSage]

Thank you so much for your amazing comments! I am so sorry it's taken me a bit to respond! I have been logging in and glancing at comments but hadn't had a chance to respond. I so appreciate your thoughtful sharing and feedback!!:)

[@jonmars9559]

I'm nearly 60 years old and diagnosed with ASD about 5 years ago. I also have CPTSD. In addition, I have come to recognize that I have exhibited BPD traits for many years, all the way back into my teens. This has affected my life considerably. These BPD traits have become too pronounced to ignore at this stage in my life and I am working to better understand how all of this fits together. Is it possible that ASD as part of the genetic contribution in addition to complex childhood trauma can result in BPD and or BPD traits? I find it interesting that ASD is under reported in females but tend to be in the majority when it comes to BPD. Since females are apparently better and concealing their ASD traits at an early age, could it come out later on in life as BPD? Like ASD + Trauma lending itself to BPD?

[@mammadingo9165]

I'm 34 thank you I believe you are right .

[@jonmars9559]

@@mammadingo9165 Thanks for your reply. I take it you know what I mean. There is so much overlap and comorbidity between some conditions it's hard to tell where one starts and another leaves off. The overlap between ASD and CPTSD is well covered but Borderline is typically set apart on its own. I've seen some videos talking about "Complex Borderline" but no connection with ASD. My ASD experience is clear. I can also check 8 out of 9 boxes when it comes to Borderline. Childhood trauma and disorganized attachment seems to be the only obvious connection. Can you explain your experience with Borderline symptoms if possible? Do you have ASD?

[@jo-annechadwick4362]

Very interesting thankyou Kim, love the educated information provided

[@clarekelsey2774]

2d comment...I still don't "get it". I completely identify with both...deep sense of "I'm core-bad" and shame which I've hidden from others by being perfectionist, over achiever, etc. Just as much identification with BPD, tho, too. And same with what u say are entirely different treatment approaches. Bcuz I think I'm core bad, I need outside validation of my worth and so am very dependent in that sense. As long as I can't internalize a sense of self-worth that's stronger than my sense of shame and "I'm bad" then I'm going to be dependent on others' opinions, support...but decreasing dependency is first thing listed for BPD, not C-PTSD. Maybe I have both and would think that these treatment protocols could be easy harmonized or reconciled. And, again, in the end if what I need is to come out of or not experience a dysregulated state or hyper-vigilant F/F/F/F state...what difference does it make if one is BPD or C-PTSD? On the one hand u say one can be both but then u say the treatment approach is very different -- then aren't you in effect saying if one has both, s/he is outta luck vis a vis treatment? Very discouraging and murky outlook from the perspective of dual diagnosis people.

[@Dani-lc9hq]

yeah I don't think this is quite accurate to say that the core feeling of shame is more likely with CPTSD, it definitely is also the same with borderline, I think with BPD you just have an additional factor of externalizing more of it with certain triggers, it pretty much swings between externalizing and internalizing. And some can have more extreme paranoia. And I agree the treatment is confusing too because you need all of the cptsd treatments with borderline. It's all still from trauma in childhood for the vast majority (I just think those that say they didn't have any trauma just didn't recognize/understand or remember it).

[@superhappy2880]

at first i was diagnosed with BPD but my therapist now said it doesn’t fit for me. i was re diagnosed with CPTSD. i don’t fear abandonment, in fact i avoid people in fear of them. Everyone is a threat to me so i keep relationships light and i always have a plan to get out quick. i only attract abusive people no matter what, so i stay away from commitment at this point of my life. I’m only 46 so i have some hope and a better therapist. I forgot to mention i was physically abused ALL my life and my BPD histrionic mother didn’t protect me from my abuser. I am an empathic person so i need to isolate often to regulate myself. I am currently learning the difference between what is mine and what attached to me without my permission. My mom was obsessed ( still is ) with me , copying all my positive life choices and claiming them as her idea. My mom wants to consume me and would turn me into her personal attention giver if she could and because of my avoidant personality behaviors i purposefully ignore her just to NOT feed the beast. Some people should NEVER be parents. My Mom especially.

[@insights3140]

Thank you for this clarity. This is very helpful.

[@peggykuhn9290]

I hate Christmas and most holidays. Birthdays are another trigger for me. Id rather just not acknowledge them. The covid Christmas was the best Christmas for me! I didnt have to see anybody and had the perfect excuse.

[@Sunnyday069]

So incredibly helpful ❤

[@Emmy_555]

Thank you. This was very helpful to me, because I found it difficult to really unterstand the differences. :)

[@DrKimSage]

Happy to hear it - thank you so much for sharing and posting!💕

[@dawnemile7499]

An adult may not feel that they are bad but may have felt that they didn't' belong and have experienced the other factors in their childhood to have CPTSD.

[@merryanncastillo3040]

Such great information-thank you for sharing your expertise.

[@carylpark7192]

This was sn excellent discription of the differences.

[@chaimgoldblatt1369]

This has been very insightful for me. thanks!

[@DrKimSage]

You are welcome! Thank you for watching and posting!🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@ArtisticMysticSoul]

Thank you. This helps a lot.

[@Emma-tp9ty]

Appreciate the video, of course, but I’m still not really clear on the differences - the descriptions sounded quite similar to me. I’m curious though, I think it’s possible to have a fear of abandonment without either, so what if you have CPTSD and fear of abandonment/abandonment trauma - will it then appear more like BPD? Then there is quiet borderline - which sounded even more similar to CPSTD as described here.

[@abbyastella6768]

These videos are fantastic. This one was especially informative. Keep up the great work

[@DrKimSage]

Thank you so much!!:)

[@smilingmindpositivity]

Your explanation is so clear thank you so much.

[@momione11]

I am 48 years old. Don't know what my dad had. But I just had to accept that he was impulsive and had strong mood swings. But in between kind. Lived in the days when he was kind, nice and wonderful. But then he could turn into an aggressive monster. Was terrified of this mood that came out of nowhere. Learned early to walk on eggshells around him. Get the little love I got and settle for breadcrumbs and a strange love turned with terror. My parents divorced when I was 7 years old. Then me and my little brother will be alone with my father every two weeks. As my parents have shared custody. It was not to be played with when me and my little brother were alone with him. Was so scared. Because from being kind, he could flare up and become so angry and threatening. Although we were small. Me and my brother. Found in a silent secret language so as not to disturb. My little brother was scared and I protected him. But when I am 9 years old, my father meets a new woman. She is an angel. She came into our life and wanted to be with me and my brother. Liked us. We knew them. She took care of us. Even at the age of 9, my co-dependent love addict mother meets a new man. She meets a covert controlling narc. Nice on the outside and a devil inside. It was the start of the sickest relationship I've ever seen. I've only been scared for 18 years of my life. Then the knowledge that this man hates me and my little brother. Got to put on my armor early in life. Learn to be a doormat and obey. Don't have limits. Found out about cptsd late in life. Which I understand I have. But worked on myself for a few years. A total reprogramming was required. Even what healthy relationship is. Stayed in a way in the age of a child. Got to play grown up. Take care of father, mother and little brother. Now I take care of myself and my son. But all this takes time. Will be an eternal job with myself. I had to get reel how I felt so I could heal. Locked in a lot. Never been aggressive. But, as I said, take care of me now. Also have honest conversations with my son. They are adapted to his age. Because I later met the same men as my mother. But that's enough now. The work with myself is more important and my amazing son.Yes I go Aca. Starting to become my own safe parent. They help a lot. Build me up with tools.Became avoidant and ambivalent and emotionally anorexic. But work hard on myself. To have a life. Then so grateful for my son. For him and me. I want to be there.

[@AeroAngeloA]

Could this be Quiet BPD and cptsd together. But also the terms of neurodivergent can all mash together. I do feel a lot of pain but just don't want to feel it. I'd rather treat the root than label myself over and over. Hoping that it helps me resolve some deep wound. Idk anymore what is going on with me but your videos do give me great relief so thank you so so much for that, truly.

[@melinavdw342]

The best explanation so far!

[@krisemawilkins]

I've been diagnosed with both. It's hard but I did find someone who is willing to handle me and help me and marry me

[@kwAnthony]

Depp seems to have cptsd, while heard was diagnosed BPD. Depp's mother sounds like a BPD.. interesting.

[@emmanolan4570]

I thought I was bpd but multiple psychiatrists have told me I’m not , I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder originating in childhood trauma, major depressive disorder, disorder eating , and ptsd. I asked if I had cptsd and they did not know of this disorder only of ptsd. I’m not sure why they did not recognise cptsd as a legitimate condition or know anything about it? I do identify with what I know about cptsd but I don’t want to self diagnose and maybe it isn’t important to know if I am or not I really thought I had bpd because I have abandonment issues, I do desperately cling and melt down if given the silent treatment or am dumped, I do feel I have a shaky sense of self, I do have very low self esteem and dysregulated emotions and rapid mood swings and a range of other things that bpd have eg I do dissociate when extremely triggered , I do feel intense emotions of sadness, rage , emptiness, disconnection anyway. I don’t feel I am abusive or manipulative but maybe I just can’t see that about myself. Also I have been in many relationships with narcissists and I know that’s something that is typical of bpd women and my dad and step dad are narcissists. I feel I am very flawed and am not tryed to blame my narcisstic fathers or ex partners I know my part

[@Emer205]

My life completely. BPD mother.

[@clairewillow6475]

My mom has bipolar with some cluster b personality traits. My dad is narcissistic. I’m not sure if I have CPTSD but I’m fairly certain I do. Was diagnosed with BPD in my early twenties and did a therapy program. The psychiatrist told me I no longer met the criteria for BPD at the end of the program

[@amandastieveferrer4912]

Thank you for posting this

[@jomac6004]

I've been diagnosed with both. I'm really struggling.

[@GgZoo-iK3to]

I have both. Joy

[@RogueMamaStitcher1]

What if your mom also has strong covert narcissistic traits along with the BPD traits? (Although my therapist did say narcissist/bipolar was a possibility...) My mom would never admit to a counselor her true issues (maybe not knowing what those were or knowing how to beat the system-think Amber Heard) and then tell everyone that the counselor said she was just a very intelligent person. 😵‍💫

[@aliciamull4882]

My mom says she does not know what to tell in therapy! Because my cptsd is genetics! Has nothing to do with her:(

[@willowessiestudio]

12:53 this part. Right here.

[@susanryan4874]

CPTSD and “quiet BPD” sound the same…