Homosexuality should be ILLEGAL in Pakistan

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

“And what would be the personal cost to you if you were to say you disagree?” This is the question that probably can’t be asked

[@fark69]

I am Muslim and know a lot of Pakistanis, they really don't disagree with Islamic rules much. That's their true beliefs. I don't really think many of them feel like they can't express their true selves. Their true selves are God-fearing Muslims

[@jjqq4116]

You get money. The US pumps more than 200 million per year to different NGOs in Pakistan that tries to spread liberalism and feminism as well as LGBT etc. in Pakistan through holding marches, protests and funding movies and stuff. They also fund politicians to pass favorable laws to those causes.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@jjqq4116 Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.

[@Rig0r_M0rtis]

@@jjqq4116 You have a source for that or just spreading bullshit?

[@dumpster-kun7132]

@@jjqq4116 I politely ask for your source

[@shirincometa7316]

In reality "Religion = Separation "

[@sudhuxai02]

in reality "religion = LGBT separation"

[@LeikaCamacho-f6r]

Religion is fucking disgusting ​@@sudhuxai02

[@HelloTygr]

This attitude is pretty much unique to Islam, and people turn a blind eye to it, but people are more scared of Christians. It’s ridiculous. Yes, Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, but we also believe that envy and lust are sins, and we seek redemption rather than condemnation.

[@Dan-km8zy]

They aren't more scared of Christians, they know they can feel proud and strong by strawmanning Christianity and lumping religions together. Christianity will happily accept homosexuals into the church if they abstain from homosexual acts. It is not remotely the same for homosexual Muslims

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

For what REASON is homosexuality sinful? 🤔

[@yusupovm]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas have you read Leviticus?

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@yusupovm, yes.

[@rrshorty20]

Yes they are all sins but clearly not all sins are created equal either.. How can envy be equal to homosexuality in weight? The act itself of both are sins that carry extremely different weights

[@SydneyBristow0788]

This doesn't surprise me. I wish there were more participants, and I also wish to hear comments on other topics. Abortion, immigration, religious freedom, for example.

[@drpeterboghossian]

There are LOTS of other topics on the way!

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Regarding ABORTION, it is pertinent to make mention of a particularly controversial issue, and that is, whether or not an unborn human (whether zygote, embryo, or foetus) is fully human. The undeniable and blatantly obvious fact is, that a child conceived by two parents of the Homo sapiens species (or even cloned from a single parent) is without doubt a unique human being from the very moment of conception. Those in favour of illegal abortion (i.e. killing of an unborn child for unlawful, illicit reasons) are quite adamant that it is perfectly fine to end the life of an unborn child (sometimes even a birthed child, believe it or not!) due to it not being fully-developed, insentient and/or conscious. Any person with adequate intelligence knows that even after an infant child has been birthed, it is STILL not fully developed, since it has yet to pass through the preliminary stages of life such as childhood and adolescence. So then, why stop killing at the foetal stage? Why not destroy the life of a twelve year old boy, since he has not yet fully developed unto adulthood? The fact remains that a human is fully human, regardless of the stage of life in which it is situated. It is not partially human and partially giraffe - it is FULLY human. The aforementioned preliminary stages (zygote, embryo, and foetus) are just that - merely stages of the human life-cycle, and although the life of an embryo may not be quite as morally valuable as that of a five year-old child, that is insufficient justification in itself for destroying its life. Therefore, it is debatable whether or not a human embryo is, by the strictest definitions of the terms, a conscious, sentient person, but it is INDISPUTABLE that it is a human being, worthy of protection, and must not be unlawfully terminated in a just society. It is indeed fortuitous that the mothers of outstanding historic personalities such as Lords Krishna, Buddha, and Jesus decided to not murder their precious offspring! Personally, I don’t think that I could ever condone the abortion of a child, by a woman in my family, even if it was morally-permissible, because I could NEVER perform the act of inserting my arm into the uterus of my mother, one of my wives or daughters, and manually extracting the embryo or foetus. And if I could not bring myself to perform such a despicable deed myself, I ought not pay a (so-called) doctor to execute the baby on my behalf. As a strict vegan, I sometimes feel faintly guilty destroying the life of an insect, such as a mosquito or an ant, even when it is attacking me or my food supply, what to speak of terminating the life of a fellow human being, the most highly-evolved species of life in the known universe! It would be far preferable for me to encourage my daughter, wife or mother to give birth to the child and then relinquish it to an adoptive family. See Chapter 12 of “A Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity” (“F.I.S.H”) to learn the distinction between legitimate abortion and illegal abortion, and to understand metaethics/morality in general. In summary, abortion is legitimate only in the case of rape or if the mother’s life is at risk. To read “F.I.S.H”, which is, without a shadow of a doubt, by FAR the most important work of literature ever composed, Email the address listed on the "About" page of my KZbin channel, with the acronym “FISH” in the subject field. 🐟

[@andylunt2]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas shush

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@andylunt2, kindly repeat that in ENGLISH, Miss.☝️ Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@MIKEDIAMONDZ]

The primitivity islam brings to societies is massiv

[@odinymir4274]

It's interesting that both the Quran and Bible forbid homosexuality, which means both religions have reconised it's existence 2000+ years ago

[@ReasonAboveEverything]

Doesnt judaism recognize it as well pushing it at least 3000 years.

[@marymungleandmidge4080]

People who believe in fairy tales cannot be taken seriously.

[@inversion9651]

Most of the world does, literally every society was formed by some sort of religion whether monotheistic or polytheistic. That's how they can form morals and build a society. That's how they escape nihilism.

[@Dan-km8zy]

@@inversion9651 you're wasting your time. he's already gone back to Netflix and drugs while popping SSRIs and blaming capitalism for his life

[@inversion9651]

@@Dan-km8zy You're probably right, people without religion find something else for a replacement.

[@twntwrs]

@@inversion9651 the morals that emerge from religions (all of which are man-made btw) are best left in the barbaric bronze and medieval ages they originated in.

[@LipstickSuccubus]

this!

[@jellybiscuit]

I'd have at least asked them why they weren't in Pakistan.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Money?💰

[@rrshorty20]

Why does that even matter?

[@fark69]

For money. Same reason throughout history that people moved to bigger cities within empire. At one time Rome, at one time Baghdad. At one time Constantinople. At one time Paris. Etc.

[@vickynt4188]

Is money bigger than Islam?

[@Rig0r_M0rtis]

@@vickynt4188 Ofc it is. Hypocrisy and religion go hand in hand.

[@mzvonv428]

Oh welcome to Hungary Prof, I hope you enjoy your stay here :) I found your work through Douglas Murray, and have been a follower ever since. I hope you will continue to create great content like this, and that you will not get into bigger trouble at home. Love and respect from Hungary

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you! I ❤ Hungary. I hope to retire in Budapest!

[@beaudarcey9586]

@@drpeterboghossian thank you Peter, for revitalizing my epistemological brain muscles, and getting me back into religion in a smarter way. (You are the best thing since Hitchens IMHO!!!)

[@hannaha4305]

@@drpeterboghossian Hello Peter, question you left a very liberal University to go to another very liberal University, I'm a bit confused. I love your videos and chats with University students.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@hannaha4305 Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.

[@theinquisitor5518]

Thank goodness we have millions of these enlightened souls flooding into Europe. #DiversityWins

[@j-schnab6338]

The sarcasm. 🤣

[@twntwrs]

Responsible for an incessant wave of stabbings and rapes in Germany which the government covers up.

[@fark69]

But honestly, since you guys are letting whoever stick their thing in whoever's bum and are letting people transition gender left and right, isn't it good to have guys like this moving in to do what you won't do (e.g. stand up to perverts)?

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.

[@theinquisitor5518]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Homosexuals reproduce at higher than normal rates? Are you sure about that? 🤣 Do you need a biology lesson?

[@j-schnab6338]

I like how Peter has the testicular fortitude to ask questions like this. I'm a fellow Portlander. Yes we're dumb.

[@samsapper2658]

Portland is quite the test subject for insanity running wild. I feel sorry for the people of Portland but it's useful to have something to point to.

[@Scottishfoxy777]

Testicular fortitude is stolen for my sayings bank.... that is an absolute belter! I feel my fellow Scots wil like it 🤙

[@shahjmir]

This was really sweet :) I'm a gay man living in Canada who happens to be Pakistani.

[@A_pety_sortta_doc]

Lucky you 😭😭

[@Abbieh07CB]

I'll be moving to The states soon too!

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

alahamudidala🤲☺

[@MUZLIM1234]

You’re disgusting you can be Pakistani but that doesn’t mean you’re Muslim. If you are Muslim then you’re committing a grave sin. May Allah guide you.

[@Glaither]

Great conversation. I wonder what they would say if the person they would kick out had no where else to go. Moving between countries is a modern luxury, as far as I understand. And it's still not a ubiquitous option today, by any means.

[@fark69]

I know many people like this in my own family, they'd be willing to pay to send these people away if that prevented it spreading amongst the people because of the negative effects it can have on society (decreased birth rate, gender confusion, STDs, etc.)

[@shoestringfries3418]

I think it depends on how “out” they are. I think the best option to stay alive is to pretend you’re straight, get married, have kids. Or just stay single for as long as you’re able. Even then, there may be some way to escape to another country, but you would have to sacrifice a lot.

[@thomasprogli3372]

Question: If the homosexuals are not allowed to live where Muslims are then should Mulsims not also prohibited to be allowed to live where the homosexuals are?

[@fark69]

I'm Muslim, I accept. Make a country full of homosexuals and we won't go there (it'll die out pretty quickly anyways).

[@winterlantern5695]

Yes. But you'll be called 'isIAm0pH0bIc"!

[@thomasprogli3372]

@@fark69 But Pakistan is not 100% Muslim. So now you are making new rules. How telling.

[@BattleDamageProps]

@@thomasprogli3372 only over 96% of them.

[@Ligh1sssss]

Homosexuality is a political agenda not any religious.

[@shughy1]

It's weird how they agree with it. If you want to live that way then stay where you are and stop bringing that madness to the west

[@fark69]

The madness of.... Thinking homosexuality is wrong? That was what everyone in the West thought just 20 years ago...

[@commandershepard9920]

@@fark69 Well, 2 points. People used to also think that the earth was flat. Just because a belief is old doesn't make it right. Secondly, this is not at topic of merely thinking that "homosexuality is wrong". This is a topic of thinking that "homosexuality should be illegal". Two pretty different beliefs with pretty different consequences.

[@commandershepard9920]

@@fark69 Also, in what alternate timeline did you come from where everyone thought homosexuality was wrong in 2002? Pew Research: In 2002, acceptance of homosexuality by country: UK: 74 % Canada: 69 % USA: 51 % To name just a few.

[@shughy1]

@@fark69 just what gave you that impression? I can't think of anyone who said it was wrong and I've been around since the 70s

[@fark69]

@@commandershepard9920 but homosexuality is obviously wrong and should obviously be illegal, it's not like the Earth is flat. All evidence points to the harms of homosexuality. It spreads STDs, causes a decline in birth rates, and leads to widespread rejection of gender and gender transitioning.

[@jankriz9199]

Man you are so good at this. True professional. Thanks!

[@y.a.2593]

I would have loved to hear about why they choose to come to the West, where Islam specifically forbids living among the kafiroon. It seems like they are all about punishing non-believers, homosexuals, and others who do things that are haram, but not themselves, who are choosing to live a haram lifestyle by living amongst nonbelievers. Very curious lol

[@fark69]

Islam does not forbid living amongst kuffar. This would go against the goal of converting all of humanity, so that's the part of your logic which is making it hard for you to understand.

[@y.a.2593]

​@@fark69 In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood. With regard to common sense, the Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen cannot carry out many of the rituals and visible acts of worship of Islam, in addition to the fact that he is exposing himself to temptation because of the permissiveness in those countries that is protected by their laws. The Muslim should not expose himself to temptations and trials. Know the Sunnah, takfiri

[@Widowmaker104]

You can hate on these people for being bigoted but you have to agree the honesty about their true beliefs if a breath of fresh air. Progressive activists who defend Islam and Sharia will beat around the bush and deny all accusations of homophobia but when you speak to regular muslims they are very honest and unapologetically pro-sharia.

[@billfarlo3366]

Nobody is denying that, everyone knows religion turns people hateful whether it's Christianity or islam

[@yushpi]

Not nearly to the same degree ​@@billfarlo3366

[@travr6]

I used to be pro gay marriage. The alphabet mafia has gone too far

[@Ghost-fe1vp]

I'm not pro gay marriage I don't care what anyone does.

[@travr6]

@@Ghost-fe1vp You don't care if someones rapes your child? Care very much what other people do.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Do you use any of the following terms? • gay • homophobia/homophobe • transphobia/transphobe • trans-sexual • transgender • cis gender • sex worker • capitalism/capitalist • any gender-specific pronoun other than he/she, him/her or his/her Then CONGRATULATIONS - you are (either knowingly or unwittingly) a shill for the loony left!

[@Ghost-fe1vp]

@@travr6 I think ur smart enough to work out what I mean. Atleast I hope so.

[@user-tm8jt2py3d]

I'm starting to think marriage should stay a purely religious ceremony, then have a way to universally register that with the government. People can do all their wild nonsense without shitting on actual, religious marriage then.

[@Ghost-fe1vp]

And to think our governments don't ask these questions to these people before letting them immigrate. Truly terrifying.

[@SydneyBristow0788]

Are you worried about them being violent? Or just disagree with their perspective on homosexuality? Out of curiosity, what country are you from? 🤔

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

HOMOSEXUAL acts are legitimate solely within polygamous marriages (as defined in Chapter 27). Read Chapter 12 and the Glossary entry under “slippery slope”, to learn the reason for homosexuality being detrimental to society, and therefore, other homosexual acts being unlawful. Whereas heterosexual unions are normal, natural, and necessary for a prosperous society, homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural, and unnecessary, and is destructive to individuals, to families, to society, and of course, to the very survival of the Homo sapiens species itself. Leading neuroscientists of the current century have demonstrated that same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria can be attributed to certain parts of the brain being formed similarly to the person’s (biological) gender OPPOSITE. There are other physiological determinants for homosexual attraction, such as genetic and hormonal, and to a far lesser degree, environmental causes. As demonstrated in Chapter 11 of this “Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity” (“F.I.S.H”), this phenomenon was preordained in eternity, but so too were all unbeneficial traits such as criminality and addictive personality disorders, and does not negate the obvious requirement for society to punish perpetrators of homosexual acts. Again, read Chapter 12 to understand metaethics, applied ethics, and the reason for homosexual acts being objectively evil by nature. Of all the concepts put forward in this Holiest of Holy Scriptures, this condemnation of homosexual acts is, perhaps, the teaching that elicits the most vitriolic responses from individuals, because over the past few decades of writing this treatise, homosexuality has become widely acceptable within most societies throughout the world, and even glorified in some cases! However, the obvious fact of its pernicious nature MUST be proclaimed if human society is to endure and prosper. It ought to be emphasized that homosexual acts themselves are unlawful, and not simply being predisposed to same-sex attraction. In other words, homosexual individuals can not be prosecuted simply for being attracted to members of the same gender, but only for engaging in unlawful sexual acts such as sodomy, just as heterosexuals should not be punished just for being attracted to members of the opposite sex, but for fornicating with them (that is, engaging in extra-marital sexual activity).

[@hritikraghuwanshi2049]

@@SydneyBristow0788 if they get in majority in some area will that area remain safe for homosexuals

[@Ghost-fe1vp]

​@@SydneyBristow0788 I believe in freedom, They do not. That's my issue.

[@Ghost-fe1vp]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas I don't believe in a God so I can't agree with what you said there. I need solid evidence.

[@sithewiseguy]

Remember when Sam Harris cited Pew research polls regarding homophobia in Muslim-majority country on Real Time, only to be called a racist by Ben Affleck? I do. Major wake-up moment for me as an uber-progressive.

[@fark69]

Islam is right about homosexuals

[@subhashishbagchi3191]

@@fark69 Loan and aids are also forbidden in Islam but Pakistan entire economy is running on foreign aids and IMF loans. Don't you think Pakistan should forbidden both homosexuality and taking Loans/aids from other countries?? IF ISLAM IS RIGHT ABOUT NOT TAKING LOANS WITH INTEREST THEN WHY PAKISTAN IS DOING IT?

[@manobik]

There were so many questions you could ask? Like 1. If hindu /athiest pakistani citizens were gay, how would they react? 2. Is consuming pork /alochohol prohibited? Do they need to leave the country if they keep consuming them? 3. We see many pakistani girls are raped by their fathers and uncles, should they suppose to leave the country? 4. In pakistani madrasas many boys are sexualy abused by their teachers/authorities, are the supposed to leave Pakistan as well?

[@fark69]

Some of my family members are Pakistani (I am Indian). Here's what I'm sure they'd say: 1) Doesn't matter. In the story of Lut (Prophet Lot), the people committing the act of homosexuality were not all Muslims but they were all punished. Anyone who does this act and is caught by the public, Muslim or not, should be punished or repent and never do it again or leave. 2) Pork and alcohol are prohibited to be eaten or sold by Muslims barring medicinal uses. Alcohol they'd say ban it all since it's so harmful, but for pork, maybe they'd say it's okay for non-Muslims. But since it's not good for human beings, maybe it's also better for everyone's health and all just to ban outright. 3) Rape is a crime. Anyone proven to have raped another should be killed or lashed or receive a harsh penalty as is shown in Quran / Hadith. The main issue with rape is that proving it is difficult in every country. I don't think anyone has achieved a solution to this matter. 4) Again rape is a crime, same answer as 3. Obviously anyone proven to have been raped is not a willing homosexual...

[@manobik]

@@fark69 they did not want to 'punush' homosexuals... They just wanted them to 'migrate'. Re: lut mythological stories, God took care of destroying the area, God could feel like doing anything and everything. Did God ask Muslims to kill homosexuals? God also did not like taking/giving interest in banking system, God also want Muslim women to cover their hair/head... Do pakistan need to prohibited everything against 'God's likings'?

[@Sal3600]

Socrates stated, if you live in a country, you live so automatically abiding its laws. If you don't abide, you leave. Simple. Still applies today.

[@CleverGirlAAH]

Your 1. I imagine is a simple 'Leave, because this is a Muslim country'. I think your 2. is the only pertinent question. (Although I am unaware of pork & alcohol sales in Pakistan to begin with. Do they sell pork and alcohol to begin with?) 3 & 4. Have a clear victim, so nothing can be learned from there. (I'm sure the young men would agree).

[@Ali-ru9vx]

THIS !

[@nikitk9792]

Not surprised. Religions sometimes eliminate the desire to have independent thoughts. That's probably why they were created to begin with.

[@TRUMPFORTHEPEOPLE]

Religion is real however they altered few commandments to control behaviors.

[@j-schnab6338]

These questions feel like they haven't been practiced. Or maybe Peter isn't pushing as hard as he should to question their biases.

[@davidfenton3910]

Yeah, I got the same feeling a little bit, but doing it without a script while thinking it out and having a multitude of possibilities go through your mind while on the spot, such is an art. Just what shot you'll choose in each situation cannot be decided before hand but though life experience, professional experience and all that driving range thinking and short game finesse practice and consideration. Peter has game to spare and he's just getting back into the swing of the game after some fairly rough treatment. Strings of sub par rounds coming up and there's plenty that will team up with him for an Ambrose or 'foursome' (sexual pun not intended.) When it comes to deep lifelong indoctrination, it's like attacking a castle, unless you've got something very special, you're just going to die scaling a wall. Castles can fall much easier from within when the consciousness, walled up inside becomes aware through their own cognitive processes, both conscious and unconscious. Once the one walled up inside starts attacking the walls, they work out what they need and supply the energy. I'm fairly sure Peter is fairly aware of how to help those inside walls and bars of indoctrination and that the game we saw him playing could have been better than we might think. The philosophical knowledge of human nature, planning and implementation is an order of societal conditioning that statistically has about 4.4 billion Christians and Moslems i.e. 54% of the planet. I don't take the stats at face value but that all came about from philosophical planning still readable in Plato. Lets drop the 54% in half to 27% and call it a mere 2.2 Billion. That's a staggering thing. The new philosophical plan which most westerners are in but don't know it is worse. People like you and Peter and everyone else here, are so necessary if we are to move society to a place where powerful philosophical indoctrination is not the norm. It seems to me the long time ago planned upgraded replacement to Christianity is well underway and people like Peter are at the forefront of opening up and making known what is going on. Additionally many of us, including people like Peter, are not very aware of the depth and breadth of all that is going on, so we can't oppose and prevent it as well as we need to. If enough widespread knowledge that Jesus was a philosophical fabrication got out when Rome was establishing Christianity then it wouldn't have got off the ground. People will not truly believe and follow that which they know is not real. The bible/Christianity defines an Anti-Christ as one that tells the truth of Jesus, i.e. that he's a fabrication. So the core lie, lifted up as truth, was protected by demonisation of those that would expose the emptiness of the core of 'moral' value, Jesus and his self sacrificial example and teachings. *My Point:* A pinnacle of blasphemy was calling BS on the reality of Christ. A core moral value in the 'white nationalist racist' emerging view of society is based on what historical events where one will be legally charged and jailed in some countries if they say it isn't real? They are called not a Jesus denier but a ... denier. If this 'white nationalist racist' ideology was a part of a planned basis for societal belief in a very slowly unfolding plan then protection of the primary 'facts', planned and acted into history for real, in the narrative created around it would need to be protected. Link this to the fact that and the Platonic philosophical system has historically used blasphemy laws to protect it's core false 'facts' in the religions stemming from the planning in Plato. These blasphemy laws are seen in Jewish, Christian and Islamic religions quite clearly. I always intend to just write a paragraph of 2 and end up starting a book chapter. Sorry about that. and ... Have a GREAT day J! and everyone else sincerely david

[@fark69]

I don't think these are practiced answers. I know a lot of people who think this way. Their argument is one of order over chaos. Having a unified and widely understood and enforced moral code is really important in a developing country, and allowing people to break it because you feel bad for them eventually leads to widespread leniency for all sorts of crimes except the most violent. Developing countries already suffer from many non-violent crimes (fraud, tax evasion, corruption, family issues, etc.) It's a tradeoff most in the West don't need to make. It's also this exact reason why all the major religions had strict moral laws. Strict moral laws bind a society together. One thing about the West, where everyone is allowed to do whatever they want, is that it's characteristically individualistic and lonely.

[@shanaz3]

That’s probably due to their assumed lack of English. Also if the “Mobs” hear them talking about this they will make life hell for them.

[@klaasvaak8975]

I get that the Quran prohibits homosexuality, and that muslims follow the Quran. But do they have any good reasons for being muslim, that would be a more interesting question.

[@fark69]

I am one. My main reason is the belief in a monotheistic God is logical. Well, the idea that our lives are accidents does not make sense. We live our lives intuitively like they have great purpose. We don't all just kill ourselves and act like nothing matters. Either all of humanity is deluded or we do have a purpose. A monotheistic God fits that purpose. So among the monotheistic religions, Islam is the most sensible. The rules don't change from Old to New Testament, they always were the same and always remain the same. God remains the same, and his way of communicating with us (revelation and prophethood), remains the same. Judaism posits that one must be born into salvation, and I don't buy that. Christianity purports that God is actually 3 separate entities and that God became a human being and died, I don't buy that, plus it doesn't fit with the Bible itself. Islam is left by logical conclusion and it also doesn't have fallacies like the other two religions. Yes the morals might seem harsh to people but they did not seem harsh to people even 100 years ago. It's we, as humanity, who went off the deep end. Islam never changed. We did.

[@twntwrs]

@@fark69 Islam enshrines violations of Human Rights and is therefore not compatible with modernity.

[@arturow2686]

Look what the lack of religion did to the west

[@gangadin2873]

@@fark69 "My main reason is the belief in a monotheistic God is logical. " A muslim is one that has NO idea what his allah looks like but is certain it is just one and not many. To a muslim, this is logic. Well, if you don't know what allah is like, how can you declare it as one? It literally could be millions and you wouldn't know?! BUT... that requires using your brain.

[@fark69]

@@gangadin2873 Because if there were multiple Gods with differing powers then there would be a hierarchy of them, and each one would be weaker (same power distributed amongst many individuals makes each one weaker than one who had all that power) and inspire less devotion, less love, and less fear of consequences of wronging one. In addition, the power and knowledge of the Creator over creation is broken. In a polytheistic worldview, one god had to have had more of a hand in creation and thus know the purpose of people better than some others (if each of the gods has the same powers at the same equivalency, then they are functionally the exact same as one God). That god would be most important then and the one who deserves worship more than other deities. Polytheism opens up many cans of worms. Does one need to spread ones worship across all the gods? If so, how to determine accurately who gets more and who gets less worship? If the correct ratio is 80-20 but I do 90-10, will the god I prayed to more protect me from the wrath of the one I prayed to less? It's confusion that isn't needed when a monotheistic God is much simpler and more provable than polytheism.

[@bollygermany6976]

What nonsense is he talking about? In front of the camera he talks in Pakistan, homosexuality is forbidden and behind the camera he probably has sex with men in secret. In Pakistan there are over millions of gays who do everything secretly so he can talk what he wants, he knows that too, sadly but true pakistan has gay men in the country he should see the reality through his eyes You shouldn't bring religion into this Religion has nothing to do with sexuality, sex is just satisfaction And not only in Pakistan there are homosexual people all over the world I just say love is love goodnight

[@Some-random-user]

Im pakistani but obviously he aint gay and also theres alot of idiots in my country

[@Wulfshade]

Sometimes progressive leftists need to be reminded of these realities, and that eventually they'll have to choose whether to be pro-queer or pro-muslim

[@Rig0r_M0rtis]

Wow your mind is a salad. Progresive left is never "pro-muslim" because Islam is as conservative as it gets.

[@Wulfshade]

@@Rig0r_M0rtis I actually agree with you, and I should have probably put the word "progressive" in quotes, but the pro-muslim leftists certainly call themselves progressives. Feel free to try to convince them that they're not true progressives.

[@fark69]

Lefties are dumb, so they'd choose to be pro-people-who-spread-stds-and-gender-confusion instead of pro-God any day of the week

[@Wulfshade]

@@fark69 I'm pro neither, so what does that make me?

[@Wulfshade]

Also, I think the previous commenter blocked me after I replied to him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@123axel123]

Totally meaningless. Muslims that are muslim. Why not ask if Muslims should live in a Christian country as a follow up? Why not ask if Pakistan should take charity from non-muslim?

[@mindfulchimp9946]

Next do this outside a church in Texas. It would sound the same almost, just sub Islam for Christianity/Jesus. Well done Peter.

[@sithewiseguy]

You are reqlly great at this style of content Peter. Well done.

[@subhashishbagchi3191]

Loan and aids are also forbidden in Islam but Pakistan entire economy is running on foreign aids and IMF loans. Don't you think Pakistan should forbidden both homosexuality and taking Loans/aids from other countries??

[@TheClimateChannel]

“No” I would not want another country to enforce their ideas on me and I cannot go and say the same no matter how I disagree with it. This is a funny “topic” to me as most hard right republicans agree with this idea but don’t support these other countries due to their religion, while hard left completely disagree with their sentiments and ideas on religious and sexual freedom, but support their country. Make it make sense…

[@tortiedove]

This! Such an interesting point! I guess it kinda lines up with the stereotype of the right being conservative and traditional while the left has the stereotype of being liberal and experimental.

[@painmonopoly6930]

Peter out there trying to get allahu akbared

[@coolcandy3338]

I am muslim, homosexual and offcourse Pakistani. Strongly condemmend what my Country fellows said.....

[@MUZLIM1234]

💯 agree with them and I’m very proud to be Muslim. I’m proud of these young men. I’m an American woman born and raised here. Raised into Christianity and parents included accepted Islam and left Christianity. Islam is the truth and back then I used to support the gays but now I understand because Allah is the greatest and our knowledge is limited Gods knowledge isn’t. He says it’s not allowed then it’s not allowed. It’s disgusting now that I understand but back then I was super pro gays astaghfirullah! But I was ignorant back then. Alhamdulillah for Islam

[@kristafluit3042]

I would argue you're ignorant now

[@Ali-ru9vx]

As a progressive Pakistani guy, I disagree with the closeted guys

[@MustardSkaven]

If Allah is against homosexuality, why does he create gay people? Is he not omnipotent or is he capable of making mistakes? Which one is it, mussalmen?

[@fark69]

Gay people are not made gay they choose to do homosexual actions. This is scientifically proven in a Nature article titled "No Gay Gene". That being said, people are born alcoholics even though drinking is a sin. Every person has unique struggles in life. As life is a test, this makes sense and Allah (swt) is a perfect judge, taking into account fairly how hard one person's test is vs another person's. Our worldly punishments and worldly judgments may be inaccurate, but Allah is always perfect in judgment, always balancing mercy and justice.

[@abrandpluckedoutofthefire8043]

Allah is a fantasy like atheism

[@mataleongermany7169]

Well done young men! Stay true to your beliefs.

[@Wandering.Homebody]

Their beliefs which is are completely overbearing? I wonder how you would feel if you just wanted to live your life as you saw fit, and some hystrionic, backward fanaticals feel that they have a right to tell you how you ought to lead your life and love life, or else!

[@mataleongermany7169]

@@Wandering.Homebody Everybody can/should live how they like. Why Muslims don´t have the same right?!

[@Wandering.Homebody]

@@mataleongermany7169 I don't know why they don't want to grant the same rights. I agree with you, absolutely! It's pathetic how they try to curb their compatriots' rights! Women, gays etc, nobody is safe from their pious, backwards beliefs.

[@mataleongermany7169]

@@Wandering.Homebody What do you think about this: ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.‘ Leviticus 20:13

[@Wandering.Homebody]

@@mataleongermany7169 i m talking about this day and age, not 100s or 1000s of years ago.

[@PatrickSellen]

Laughed my ass off the entire time

[@davidfenton3910]

Good for you. Cheers d

[@MIKEDIAMONDZ]

Abdools 😅

[@PeyoteCoyote97]

So do woke westerners consider these guys bigoted homophobes or would saying so make them islamaphobic😅

[@h____hchump8941]

That's easy to answer. They would say something along the lines of "religion sucks". But if it was a Christian they would be vociferous in their criticism of Christianity. There is a video on reddit I just saw that is of two Muslim women in Norway flipping a car with two men in it who burnt the Qur'an, the top comment is a silly joke (they like it, because it avoids the issue in favour of some inane joke), and maybe a couple more jokes, then general criticism of religion, but never specifically Islam despite it being a uniquely Islamic issue.

[@winterlantern5695]

They simp for isIam because they're anti-Christian (Christian = "white or white passing/white man's religion" to the leftists). Simple as.

[@PeyoteCoyote97]

@@h____hchump8941 ahhh Reddit. Once a literal bastion of free speech that is now owned by people with direct links to CCP and censored endlessly by openly radical communist moderators. What a sad transformation

[@annademo]

I was impressed by the young man who said that homosexuals should leave Pakistan. At least he is giving them an opportunity to stay alive. And why are there Muslims in Hungary?

[@jmwilson6792]

"Is there a VERSE in the Quran?" My mind went somewhere else. 😂

[@mrs.insane-o8y]

ayyidna Abu Hurairah ؓ عنہ reports that the Holy Prophet ﷺ said: "Four types of people are, when they begin their day, under the wrath of Allah and when they reach their evenings they are under the rage of Allah." I asked: "Who are they, 0 Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Men who imitate women and women who imitate men and he who goes unto animals and he who goes unto men".

[@shanaz3]

@@mrs.insane-o8yShukran

[@noblelies]

​@@mrs.insane-o8yOf course, you quote the Hadith, because the Quran is silent.

[@Riyansh572]

Well pakistan should also follow the islamic banking system... forbidden to take interests on loan 😂😂😂😂

[@tfustudios]

There's likely also a bit of duress at play here considering the location!

[@fark69]

I don't agree. I am Muslim in the West where many Muslims could say what they want but almost all of them (except a few basket cases) are staunchly against homosexuality

[@twntwrs]

@@fark69 "Basket cases" would be the cretins who are "staunchly against homosexuality"

[@TRAZ4004]

@@fark69 I think it’s location dependent, in Muslim ‘enclaves’ of NJ or England you see conservative Islam, go to a tech hub like San Fran or Austin and Muslims are pretty liberal. (I guess the same could be said for other groups)

[@fark69]

@@TRAZ4004 from SF to conservative enclaves pretty much all Muslims are clear about homosexuality because the Quran is clear about it. Anyone who tries to say "2 + 2 = 5" will be laughed at no matter how many degrees they have. Same is with those who claim homosexuality is allowed in Islam.

[@joey9562]

@@fark69 then they Need to move to a country that doesn’t approve of homosexuality. Why are they in the west when they don’t agree with homosexuality?? Go home!

[@markshimmin3192]

The more I look into Islam, the more I respect it

[@gangadin2873]

You do know that pakistani boys are routinely sodomized by their mullah, right? There is a pakistani mullah and youtuber who has said that this happens in EVERY madrassa and challenged anyone to show him otherwise. He has not been challenged yet. This is something to respect?

[@markshimmin3192]

@@gangadin2873 you're switching topics. I was commenting about Islam and what's in their texts. You're bringing up the actions of evil individuals. Find a quote/scripture from the Qur'an that advocates/allows for that heinous crime you mentioned

[@gangadin2873]

@@markshimmin3192 Okay, but then don't switch back and tell me that not every muslim is engaging in jihaad as an excuse when we reach that topic. Because quran clearly requires muslims to kill the disbelievers. Is sodomy more heinous than child sodomy? the allah of islam offers thousands of young boys "who are beautiful like pearls but will not bleed" in heaven to the momins as one of their reward. Besides, mohammad, had a boyfriend who was seen leaving mohammad's home in the mornings. When people questioned mohammad - he said that was Jibreel, and mohammad is the model of conduct for every muslim. Is that enough? Or are we going to dismiss that too as individual actions?

[@markshimmin3192]

@@gangadin2873 what I'm looking at is the principles Islam has Example- usury is considered as evil. Offering unethical loans that keep adding on interest where all the physical money couldn't actually pay that off. I see your tactic of always going back to individuals doing terrible things. I'm here for the principles that are for the good, the true, and beautiful. May you live 1000 years in peace

[@gangadin2873]

@@markshimmin3192 Who decides what is unethical? Individuals? Idiots who think just being refused loans is a good thing. Raping, extorting, enslaving and killing is also part of islam - infact it is ordered in the quran. Are you just another muslim pretending to not be one?

[@IChooseAHandle]

"if a Muslim Imam said we should accept gay people.." that should have been the question

[@jjqq4116]

It's a no. It should be a no for a Christian and a Scientific minded person as well.

[@Sal3600]

@@cicolas_nage you clearly don't know science. Look at the statistics on gay sex and aids lmaooo

[@Sal3600]

Imam doesn't over rule the book. No man does. Except a prophet who "communicates" with God to relay new chapters. But in islamic book, it states there will be no more prophets. I don't believe in any of this btw

[@CleverGirlAAH]

​@@cicolas_nage The science can make no moral claim against homosexuality, true. But there is a very real *statistical* difference in transmissions of sexual diseases between homo and hetero couplings. Just look at the virility of the novel monkey pox and how quickly that spread. I bat for both teams and lemme tell you... I have to worry about one side far more than the other. Speaking from anecdotal, but very real experience.

[@fark69]

@@cicolas_nage Science tells us being gay is not natural, there is no gay gene, remember? Science tells us homosexuality spreads STDs at far higher rates than heterosexuality. So science is against gay

[@Getsomeandestchili]

Why are so many people surprised that citizens of a theistic republic think this way? Whatever doctrine a society considers to be fundamental or cannon, societal norms will follow that framework. Unfortunately for the gays, Pakistan shall remain off limits.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Do you use any of the following terms? • gay • homophobia/homophobe • transphobia/transphobe • trans-sexual • transgender • cis gender • sex worker • capitalism/capitalist • any gender-specific pronoun other than he/she, him/her or his/her Then CONGRATULATIONS - you are (either knowingly or unwittingly) a shill for the loony left!

[@Getsomeandestchili]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas thats quite a post! I like your zeal. If you do not mind, please post the appropriate terms for each of your bullet points above.

[@ENTERTAININGVIDEOS1]

BMA Thankfully we don't want immorality to spread among ourselves and rupture anu#ses (M.A)!!!

[@noblelies]

​@@ENTERTAININGVIDEOS1Such an obsession with anal sex. You do know that men do this to women, don't you?

[@ncorp2668]

I would like to know what they think of the punishments of g*y people by many of the Muslim governments and if proclaiming to be a Muslim government allows ruling by an iron fist, as long as it aligns with the belief system. How must they view "ICE-IS" then? Is there any appreciation for personal freedom at all?

[@fark69]

I can answer, as a devout Muslim. Islam is a balance between personal freedom and an orderly society. The West has dipped too much into personal freedom, now people have the "freedom" to not only fornicate but also to change their gender. Homosexuality is a serious crime with serious adverse effects on society. It raises the rates of STD spread, which is a public health issue. It lowers the birth rate (some percent of people are attracted to both sexes) of a society which is already a serious problem in developed countries. And lastly it destroys gender roles and leads to gender transition and opting out of gender altogether (as you see in the West). As such this crime deserves to be punished

[@domward8352]

It's interesting that they feel there's a need for it to be illegal. If every Muslim in Pakistan doesn't practice homosexuality because it's forbidden by the Qur'an, then why is there a need for a law? Is this a perfect example of state and religion being inextricably linked. Look at it this way, do they for example need to mandate the illegality of eating pork? On the same note would Israel need the same dietary (state) law, or is the religious prohibition sufficient?

[@fark69]

Same reason everyone you meet on the street in USA will say to you shooting an innocent child is immoral but you still have laws against it. People often say they believe one thing while secretly believing another

[@domward8352]

@@fark69 Sadly I think you're right

[@Waguaar]

​@@domward8352People will commit wrong, believing and knowing it is wrong. For example rape and theft. The punishments in Islam are there to prevent crime, and discourage it.

[@domward8352]

@@Waguaar Yes but why essentially the need to legislate it twice?

[@Waguaar]

@@domward8352 Because Islam is not a country. A country has to make it official, what rules they follow.

[@BobbyBerberyan]

Great insight. 👏

[@BattleDamageProps]

Ironically, those two guys have some pretty gay haircuts. 'If they engage in homosexual acts what should happen to them' he was really trying hard not to say 'death'.

[@Ali-ru9vx]

LMAOOO rightt I just know they do the dirty behind closed doors 😭

[@interestedpart2650]

Excellent

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thanks

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Excellent and lacklustre are RELATIVE. 😉 Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@inversion9651]

Their country, their rules.

[@dummlp]

That's cultural relativism. Are you a Marxist?

[@brandonvaughan4236]

@@dummlp I don't think he was saying whether or not he approves of their cultural norms.

[@inversion9651]

@@dummlp No, the opposite in fact. I'm in favour of tradition, countries should govern how they want. There shouldn't be one international rule. Some countries are better than others. The only exception might be to rescue people from genocide by providing humanitarian aid, but not trying to change their law.

[@gangadin2873]

Not really. There are just as many muslims living in India. A country that was created by dividing British India into muslim and non-muslim parts. Yet muslims don't leave India. Instead they impose sharia wherever they can. So, it is ALWAYS their rules, where they can enforce it. This is why you should be careful how many get the voting rights in the west. It may seem like a small problem now, but it is a sign of a coming bloody war. The Spaniards fought for centuries to clean it up, now Merkel is inviting the mess back in.

[@inversion9651]

@@gangadin2873 I see your point, India is mostly Hindu so the government is who they elect. Some laws in countries may be good and others may be bad, they have a choice to choose what laws to enact.

[@rodaraujos88]

Even when there wasn't any counter argument this time around, I like how they still expressed in their view that they recognize there are other countries/cultures that they don't share values with where other people they don't agree with live without defaulting to a moral high ground, as it happens on the other end of the question's ideological spectrum.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

In your own words, define “MORALITY”. ☝️🤔☝️

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@havenmist2216, Good Girl! 👌 Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@havenmist2216, I am patiently awaiting your response to my question, SLAVE. ☝🏼

[@GarrettsGear]

Holy smokes. brainwash.

[@inversion9651]

How are they brainwashed? Most of the world agreed with them in the past and they see no reason to change their beliefs.

[@shahzaibsansi7848]

This isn't brainwashing, This is the innate disposition of a human being and the biological natural process. What is brainwashing is the drag shows for young kids in the west, sexualized textbooks in middle school. LGBTQ Propaganda indoctrination of young kids and young minds, gender change surgeries on young teens. These acts are a major sin in every major religion, Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.

[@Hajde_budalla]

You’re brainwashed. You probably think men can be women.

[@fark69]

Yeah it's brainwashed to think like all human beings thought for hundreds and hundreds of years before you that it's not natural for a guy to stick his thing up a guy's bum, tear it up, and spread STDs. Yeah, you're brainwashed if you think that's bad

[@NoorUlHuda-r2t]

First of all we are not brainwashed thankgod I am muslim I like the way i am living you don’t know anything

[@expressroch]

Is corruption permissible in Islam? If not, why aren’t corrupt individuals in the government held accountable? Why don’t they face punishment?

[@devontolly1596]

I live in America and I'm so ashamed that somewhere like Pakistan is more based than us with this type of stuff.

[@gangadin2873]

It is not based.. it is degenerate. Pakistan also has FAR more prevalent child grape for children of both sexes

[@Ali-ru9vx]

Then move there 💀

[@jamaljamshaid144]

​@@Ali-ru9vx You got a problem you non Musilm Bitch? Remove the Ali from your name

[@torres9825]

Wtf is the obsession of promoting homosexuality?

[@steven-el3sw]

Ikr… it’s like their (liberals that is) entire world view rests on it….

[@lsdave]

He totally omitted the trans issue with Muslims.

[@fark69]

The laws the Pakistani men are referring to are about transgenders, homosexuality is not legal in Pakistan but transgenders have some rights. They are a holdover from ancient societies (mostly Hindu) that lightly tolerated specifically mtf transgenders.

[@Mario-xr3jo]

What about non religious Pakistanis? After all there must be some? Do they need to be expelled from the country and live their lives on exile?

[@Pengalen]

That was predictable, boring, and unproductive.

[@JereKrischel]

"What if Mohammed came down from heaven, and told you homosexuality was now okay?" "What if Allah came down from heaven, and told you homosexuality was now okay?"

[@fark69]

1. We would ask how it can be or whether this is truly the voice of Allah (swt) (the Prophet is dead he is not in heaven to come down from there). Directly contradicting the Quran is not commonly understood in the nature of Allah. And there would be immense skepticism of this ruling 2) if it were truly as you say and verifiable to us, we would follow it.

[@JereKrischel]

@@fark69 That sounds reasonable - and I think if one truly sees the quran as infallible, the only way to break through that would be through direct divine intervention - and even then, it would be doubted. As it was when Mohammed contradicted the Christians belief in the divinity of jesus - some accepted that message as divinely inspired, and others doubt it to this day. I guess maybe there's always room for another prophet :)

[@abrandpluckedoutofthefire8043]

@@JereKrischel you mean Joseph Smith Jr.?

[@JereKrischel]

@@abrandpluckedoutofthefire8043 I do have a soft spot for the Mormons - they're good people :) Although, by their reckoning, I believe the current prophet is Russel M. Nelson :)

[@fark69]

@@JereKrischel The strange thing is that the divinity of Jesus is not even in the original words of Jesus himself in the Bible. Anyways

[@TRUMPFORTHEPEOPLE]

Let's respect their views.

[@jungkookk_seven]

I am very happy because the two boys respect and save our religion and give him really good speech of Islam and clear him Islam true rules.. please support respect our religion

[@hombahadur3562]

But pakistani they are crazy for anal sex

[@hombahadur3562]

@1_Noone yes

[@hombahadur3562]

@1_Noone I love pakistani

[@pdxnikki1]

Used to be illegal here in the West as well. Cuz we're a Scripturally based culture. But post-modernism with its denial of absolute truth has dissuaded us of all that hoohaw. 😉

[@ilsemeyer]

Post-modernism doesn't deny absolute truth.

[@twntwrs]

Actually it's the same epistemology that made the device you're reading this on possible that dissuades the intelligent (sadly not all) among us from all that hoohaw.

[@fark69]

@@twntwrs Science affirms that homosexuality is bad for society (high rates of STDs, monkeypox, spreads gender transitioning ideology) and not natural (no gay gene study).

[@twntwrs]

@@fark69 nothing comes close to matching how bad religion in general and Islam in particular is for civilization.

[@fark69]

@@twntwrs Right, I'm sure believing that life is meaningless and you will never be punished for crimes you commit as long as no one catches you is way better for society. I'm sure widespread depression and suicide pods and bug meat are all better than not having to stick your thing up a guy's bum. Very convincing

[@mynmeisname4825]

Astaghfirullah it should be illegal .

[@Ali-ru9vx]

Legal**

[@CharlieAlKhalifa]

Fun fact. Those two have engaged already in same sex

[@mhariszeeshan]

I think you should have asked more people as you can clearly see in the video that they're not fluent in English. Also, their knowledge is very limited. As a Pakistani, i can confirm that there are Homosexuals everywhere in the country. In every town and city. And most people wouldn't even consider themselves Gay while getting involved in these activities. Gay marriage is prohibited, but it's very easy to have s** with same gender for males. It's quite common. Like one in a hundred people might be involved in these activities at some point in their lives. Especially, there's a lot of child sexual abuse going on. I, myself, have been in such situations in my childhood. As education system is horrible here, especially in government school, kids do lots of silly things in innocence.

[@Dhiraj-May8]

There is no room for peace in Pakistan 😄

[@wescolumbus621]

Is the masjid in Hungary, so these nice young Pakistani men can be homosexual outside of Pakistan and still pray, etc?

[@inversion9651]

They legally can, but It's still an immoral sin.

[@fark69]

You can commit sins and still pray. Whether or not the sin is punished in this life, you will get what you earned in the next one

[@Tarz2155]

It’s pretty simple we find it immoral therefore it should be illegal, Just as zoophilia and incest.

[@shukeelc5177]

Islam and all the major world religions considered the engagement of homosexual acts as sinful. Just being Homosexual isn't the sin, its the action of engaging in it that has prohibitions as its totally unnatural. Pakistan is quite liberal in this regard and doesn't persecute people for being gay. It won't however tolerate sodomy

[@tejesheconomics4072]

😂😂 I have seen cases Pakistanis have prosecuted gays ...Pakistan constitution literally says being gay is illegal....even oral😂😂

[@zubairsheikh6067]

Its prohibited as per islam, but state has no right to enforce islamic morality on its people even on muslims.states should only provide safe environment to practice islam

[@sparrowhawk9741]

Well, it's NOT only about religion. Pakistan has what you call a strong family system the norms and culture that do not adhere to such personal inclinations and desires. Now for the religion part, Islam is all about your actions.If a person is feeling romantically attracted to someone of same gender, it is not a sin to have those feelings. But their public display and the act itself is forbidden in Islam. Islam considers it a test for those who bore those feelings. That is the religious aspect ( I can't go in more detail given my scare religious knowledge in this domain). Now the cultural aspect , it is totally unacceptable. WHY? As it undermines and crumbles the family system which this particular region aheres itself to. So that's the fair bit of explanation I thought I should say.If you read it this far, thanks buddy.

[@Gentleman-Cadet]

Atleast learn about islam first then comment search story of qoum e loot in islam

[@MatrixRC]

Obey the law of the land and if you don't agree there is a whole world out there that shares your sexual lifestyle. And I say sexual lifestyle because that's what the sin is. You can love your brother or friend but as soon as you put your reproductive parts in a defecation area not made for producing life offspring is in error no different than inserting your sexual parts in an animal. It doesn't work.

[@Sal3600]

So anal with your wife bad?

[@fark69]

Yeah, it's very obvious and people here act like what you said is insane. Sad to see the state of Western culture these days...

[@Ali-ru9vx]

Why do you care what other people do behind closed doors? Closeted behaviour

[@bassamsaeed6615]

In Islam homosexuality is a crime and the commandment in the Quran was mentioned in the story of Prophet Lot pbuh where he preached his people to not induldge in this disgusting act but these people didnt listen and the whole tribe became ashes including Prophet Lot's wife.

[@ruinedbectorem2254]

Please read the Collective Illusion by Todd Rose They will not be honest in public in front of each other... They each think the other thinks this way so they have to say that or the other one will call them out for blasphemy... Kāfir

[@fark69]

This isn't true. I am a Muslim in the West and we are pretty open with each other, but we all just tend to see how blatantly obvious it is that homosexuality is wrong. If you ask about a different religious topic like "Are scholars really important" you'll get lots of different answers and hurt feelings and all.

[@twntwrs]

@@fark69 so your perfect, singular, immortal, omnipotent, and omniscient god created homosexuality and homosexuals for you to persecute, mistreat, torture and execute? Nice!

[@Sal3600]

@@twntwrs if God exists, He can do whatever he wants lmao

[@fark69]

@@twntwrs I mean, people are born alcoholics, right? But drinking is still bad for you and bad for society. Homosexuality causes public health problems, decreases birth rates, and leads to widespread gender confusion. It's not an innocent act and good societies don't treat it like one.

[@twntwrs]

@@fark69 so your god made a mistake creating homosexuality and homosexuals?

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

HOMOSEXUAL acts are legitimate solely within polygamous marriages (as defined in Chapter 27). Read Chapter 12 and the Glossary entry under “slippery slope”, to learn the reason for homosexuality being detrimental to society, and therefore, other homosexual acts being unlawful. Whereas heterosexual unions are normal, natural, and necessary for a prosperous society, homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural, and unnecessary, and is destructive to individuals, to families, to society, and of course, to the very survival of the Homo sapiens species itself. Leading neuroscientists of the current century have demonstrated that same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria can be attributed to certain parts of the brain being formed similarly to the person’s (biological) gender OPPOSITE. There are other physiological determinants for homosexual attraction, such as genetic and hormonal, and to a far lesser degree, environmental causes. As demonstrated in Chapter 11 of this “Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity” (“F.I.S.H”), this phenomenon was preordained in eternity, but so too were all unbeneficial traits such as criminality and addictive personality disorders, and does not negate the obvious requirement for society to punish perpetrators of homosexual acts. Again, read Chapter 12 to understand metaethics, applied ethics, and the reason for homosexual acts being objectively evil by nature. Of all the concepts put forward in this Holiest of Holy Scriptures, this condemnation of homosexual acts is, perhaps, the teaching that elicits the most vitriolic responses from individuals, because over the past few decades of writing this treatise, homosexuality has become widely acceptable within most societies throughout the world, and even glorified in some cases! However, the obvious fact of its pernicious nature MUST be proclaimed if human society is to endure and prosper. It ought to be emphasized that homosexual acts themselves are unlawful, and not simply being predisposed to same-sex attraction. In other words, homosexual individuals can not be prosecuted simply for being attracted to members of the same gender, but only for engaging in unlawful sexual acts such as sodomy, just as heterosexuals should not be punished just for being attracted to members of the opposite sex, but for fornicating with them (that is, engaging in extra-marital sexual activity).

[@joey9562]

Bottom line, it is not a choice. "Nothing is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" Martin Luther King Facts..... Homosexuality is not a choice. But Homophobia is. Is Homosexual orientation acquired or natural?🤔 From the scientific community: The World Health Organization (WHO) and the American Psychological Association (APA) takes the position that a variety of factors impact a person's sexuality. The most recent literature from the APA says that sexual orientation is not a choice that can be changed at will, and that sexual orientation is the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors...is shaped at an early age...[and evidence suggests] biological, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. Also, over 1500 species have been proven to exhibit homosexuality. (American Psychological Association 2010).” Lamanna MA, Riedmann A, Stewart SD (2014). Marriages, Families, and Relationships: Making Choices in a Diverse Society. Cengage Learning. p. 82. ISBN 978-1305176898. Retrieved February 11, 2016. Conclusion In conclusion, we showed that sexual orientation is associated with distinct changes in brain structure and that these effects vary with biological sex. Altogether, our findings show that sexual orientation has strong associations with areas primarily linked to processing and integrating incoming sensory, reward-related, and motor information. The findings aid the understanding of the neurobiology of Li sexual orientation and emphasizes the need of including or controlling for potential effects of the sexual orientation of participants in neuroimaging studies. Moreover, results provide new insights into sexual behavior in general and have implications for healthcare policies. From the Christian community: The Catechism of the Catholic Church discussed this issue in the book with subheading,"Homosexuality" paragraphs 2357-2359 which described that homosexuals “must be accepted with respect”: 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. Based on the current evidence above, we can at least conclude for now that homosexual orientation is a natural phenomenon. In Christianity, we are taught that God has a hand on all matters and life in the universe. We can therefore suggest that God has a hand in creating homosexual people as well. If this is so, what is God’s perfect plan and purpose for their existence? Keep in mind that in general gay (homosexual) population are for the most part are talented, peaceful and productive group of people that contribute immensely to the economy, arts, social, and charity, and other parts of society. A perfectly good explanation would be God’s purpose is that with homosexual people’s inability to procreate, their existence can be an aid in not adding anymore to the already overpopulated world especially the 3rd world countries. As well as created to take care of children heterosexuals abandon. And with the predominantly same-sex attractions comprise about 12% of respondents in most Western surveys and with data from non-Western cultures as consistent with this conclusion, homosexual community can really contribute to the depopulation of our world to a degree. Note: There is no persuasive evidence that the rate of same-sex attraction has varied much across time or place. Just from raw observation (due to the lack of documented statistics), the homosexual community in general excel in many aspects of society, citing a few: * In cultural arts, entertainment, music, etc. * Business, and technologies * Law abiding citizens (low crime rate) compared to the general public. And with their extraordinary talents (also a gift from the Almighty and Omniscient God), their contributions can be huge positive boost to the well being of mankind in all aspects of human endeavor and necessities. Based on the above informations, it is safe to say that it is about time that the age old discriminations and homophobic sentiments of some sectors of society must be altered because for one thing their orientation is not their choice but rather a natural phenomenon. Recognizing that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon, Pope Francis courageously announced recently his endorsement of homosexual civil union and welcoming gay community to the Church (at the dismay of many of his detractors (both in the Catholic and non-Catholic Christian world) because in his words “they are also children of God and should be integrated into society”. If homosexuality is natural thus it follows that their sexual desires is just as natural as the heterosexual sexual desires, therefore I can guess that Pope Francis and the magisterium is well aware of this reality that’s why his support of their civil union and his compassion to the gay community. With the available facts and truths of this issue in time the homosexual realm will be legalized and accepted in all aspects of society including religious tolerance and/or sanction. To the fundamentalist Catholics and evangelical non-Catholic Christians, and to the detractors of Pope Francis, it is about time to consider the positive merits of gay communities instead of maintaining the archaic-homophobic negative sentiments against them because it’s not actually their choice to be homosexual but God has a hand in it. God Bless us all children of God! "Pew's research study found that people in wealthier and more developed economies are more accepting than countries that are less wealthy and developed. Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden, nations with a per-capita gross domestic product of more than $50,000, registered among the highest levels of acceptance. By comparison, less than 2-in-10 respondents in Nigeria, Kenya and Ukraine have per-capita GDPs of less than $10,000, express acceptance." Wealth provides access to information and facts, knowledge. "The problem in the world is Oppression of man by man; it is this which threatens Existence. Men continue to misinterpret the second-rate status of women as implying a privilege status for themselves; heterosexuals think the same way about homosexuals; gentiles about jews; whites about blacks; haves about have-nots."

[@fark69]

There is a study in Nature titled "No Gay Gene" that proves scientifically that homosexuality IS a choice

[@freebozkurt9277]

The question was if homosexual ACTIVITY should be allowed. And that IS a choice!

[@joey9562]

@@freebozkurt9277 that is YOUR choice. You Don’t have the right to make that decision for other people.

[@freebozkurt9277]

@@joey9562 I am trained enough to spot straw man arguments and it seems you love to practice this logical fallacy. First you dismiss a statement that was not mentioned in the video and now you reject a statement that I did not say in my comment. And no, you are wrong, homosexual (and also heterosexual) ACTIVITY is anyone's choice. If not, that is a sexual harrasment.

[@joey9562]

@@freebozkurt9277 ACTIVITY?😄 Are you referring to what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms? Do you think you have the right to tell people what to do in the privacy of other peoples bedrooms? And who to love?

[@jaysummers9396]

That was literally a foregone conclusion of a "debate". Damn, the human species really needs to grow up

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.

[@jaysummers9396]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Yeah, but we're talking about Muslims, who have been around long before "leftist" ideologies.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@jaysummers9396 leftism: Otherwise known as “progressivism” and even more inaccurately as “liberalism”, leftism is a term originating from the French Revolution of 1789, in reference to the political faction that opposed the French (so-called) king. However, the term is currently used in common discourse to describe those criminals who actively support (or at least tacitly condone) a host of OBJECTIVELY-WICKED ideologies and practices that contravene dharma, such as non-monarchical governances and corrupt economic systems (particularly socialism, communism, fascism, and liberal democracies), egalitarianism, feminism, perverse sexuality (especially homosexuality, bestiality, and transvestism), multiculturalism, and the illegitimate abortion of innocent, defenceless, unborn children. Cf. “dharma”. In the past decade or two, the mass media, especially the motion picture industry and television production companies, has been aggressively promoting all the above CRIMINAL ideologies and practices, helping to expedite the destruction of human civilization. Recently, large corporations have jumped on the leftist bandwagon (so to speak), in order to profit. As explicated in Chapter 11 of this “A Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity”, the state of being of any particular human (or any other animal for that matter) is due entirely to his or her genetic sequencing and his or her conditioning. Therefore, the explosion of the leftist/liberal mentality in recent decades, particularly in Western countries, has been caused by poor breeding strategies overtaking the more conservative tradition of mate-selection of previous centuries (and indeed, millennia). In other words, due to the fact that criminal behaviour (especially the deviant sexual acts mentioned above) has become increasingly more tolerated, condoned, and even GLORIFIED in most countries, there has been a proliferation of corrupt genetic codes within the wider human population. According to genealogists, for (almost) the entire history of humanity, most women have successfully reproduced, whilst a far far smaller percentage of males have bequeathed their genetic sequence to proceeding generations. Due to the gradual phasing-out of polygamous marriages in even the most conservative societies, as well as the eradication of poverty in most every country, more and more men (as well as women) have been producing offspring. Thus, the human genome has rapidly become adulterated by inferior genetic material (that is, DNA from truly pathetic, uxorious beta-males, bisexuals, and even homosexual couples who engage surrogate mothers or sperm donors in order to conceive children - something of a rare occurrence in previous centuries/millennia). Unsurprisingly, the majority of leftists find it difficult to accept the fact that their criminal mentality is largely inherited (and of course, they are unwilling to acknowledge the blatantly-obvious fact that their ideologies and practices are intrinsically sinful, wicked, evil, and immoral in the first place). It seems the consensus amongst leftist "intellectuals" is that every human mental trait is due entirely to one's environmental conditioning, rather than as a consequence of BOTH one's genetic sequence and one’s conditioning - a fundamentally-flawed assertion that cannot be scientifically-supported. This term was very reluctantly used in the chapter on feminism. I say “reluctantly” because it is unlikely that the term will perdure for many decades longer. This is simple deductive logic, since, as clearly demonstrated in certain chapters in “F.I.S.H”, human civilization cannot survive with such leftist practices and ideologies in place. If you happen to be reading this Holy Scripture a century or more after its conception, you will probably be residing in a nation (as opposed to a country) ruled by a monarch, following the implosion of post-modern, decadent societies. So, either the term “leftism” will eventually become redundant and obsolete, or else, human civilization will devolve into a decadent, diseased state of existence similar to that of the prehistoric era, when the peoples of the world resided in caves or shacks, subsisting on whatever food can be sourced from the surrounding bushland. I trust that you who are reading these wise words will endeavour to influence your social circles to adhere to right-leaning ideologies, such as monarchical governance, an entirely free-market economy, sexual purity, and all other virtuous principles. Fear not, for GOD is with you! P.S. As a general rule, it seems (at least anecdotally) that the farther left-leaning is a person, the more physically (and of course, psychologically) UGLY is that person. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to prevent leftists from propagating their mutant genes. 🤡

[@jaysummers9396]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas Thanks for the copy and paste which you're not intelligent enough to write yourself, the debate was about Islam, dipshit, please keep up, and try an original thought in your response

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@jaysummers9396, PMS are the initials for “Pre-Menstrual Syndrome”, which every woman (except, perhaps, Mama Maria) experiences at LEAST once a month, when she cannot control her moods and emotions. And it seems from your impetuous and DISRESPECTFUL response, that you are experiencing some kind of premenstrual affliction, Sinful Slave?

[@elroy9186]

Oh man you are about to find out just how toxic your viewers are. This will be a nice wake-up call for you.

[@Sal3600]

Nothing so far mate. Look how wrong you are.

[@elroy9186]

@@Sal3600 thank god, top comments when i was here were all awful

[@davidleicht6302]

dOn’T bE ISlamOphoBiC

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Kindly repeat that in ENGLISH, Miss.☝️ Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@mazhariqbal29]

Man is playing with words. Being clever. Everything quran says haram is haram. Everyone should know that

[@slikarpan5596]

what kind a queston is that

[@ALS-Y1]

hmm as a muslim i dont know where i would stand if i was present. it is obviously haram and a sin. but as muslims it is a greater sin to broadcast your sins and what i mean by that is for example im a muslim and i drink. if i show everyone that i drink and boast about it its the greater sin. so what some scholars say for example if someone is born with these desires they are not sinful. when they act upon these desires they sinned, when they boast about these desires its a great sin. important to note that this sin does not take you outside the folds of islam. and regarding the shria rule that says they should be killed, keep in mind in the eyes of a muslim it is RULES FROM GOD. so obviously they will respect them. even though it rarely happens. and it is a capital punishment. personally i believe someone can have these desires and still be a good muslim ofcource. and the shria has its reasoning for why its haram and forbidden.

[@LaOwlett]

It can still be prohibited for oneself, but why use the state to prohibit others? Isn't our journey on earth supposed to be a litmus test of temptations to pass, in order to get into heaven? Why then take away all the tests of life through government prohibitions? The strength of character to resist sin is not the same as following the state's rules to avoid earthly punishment. I don't think god wants just anyone who followed the rules, god wants those with self discipline and strength of will. He wants people who can turn away from temptations when presented, and he separates the wheat from the chaff using the test of life. That's the whole point isn't it?!

[@fark69]

No because we as humans live in a society. Worldly punishments are to preserve social order. Obviously a homosexual who acts on it will be punished in the afterlife unless he overcomes it with good deeds or is forgiven, etc. But in the Earth, such crimes are really dangerous to society and cannot be tolerated

[@LaOwlett]

@@fark69 so let's put people who divorce in prison? Understand that there are plenty of religious rules that aren't codified in law. If two homosexuals are with themselves not harming you, why punish them for something that has no effect on you? You can't even explain how or why it's "dangerous". You must have temptations yourself, that's the only rational explanation.

[@fark69]

@@LaOwlett 1. Divorce is considered to have enough benefits for social order that it outweighs the harms. 2. Homosexuality spreads STDs it is a public health issue, it also blurs and degrades gender roles and leads people down the path of gender transitioning, mutilation, etc. When 2 moms are equal to a dad and mom, gender matters little to people and they will begin "transitioning" (e.g. cutting off their genitals) in larger numbers as we see now in the West

[@LaOwlett]

@@fark69 1) You're making excuses for the government to apply only the rules you want. 2) Heterosexuals are just as vulnerable to std's as gay people. It doesn't blur gender roles. Trans is not the same as gay. A gay man is still a man. Being gay means sexual attraction, not an identity crisis. You still didn't answer my question. Two men in a relationship has no effect on anyone elses life... unless you're tempted by homosexuality and falsely blame them for your own weak will. It's lazy, and it implies that Muslims aren't faithful so their governments need to deploy violence to force people to follow their rules. It's so backwards and irrational. Primitive.

[@tyronsimpson2143]

It's full of guys in Packistan and through out the Islamic world. Always has been rife......

[@muhammadarhammalik2162]

Fresh Islam Kim respect

[@nightfury4805]

"Don't move until I'm done counting" Moves anyways. Too dumb to follow simple instructions, but smart enough to say that homosexuality should be illegal? Lol

[@sbphotoshop]

btw Sir I am also against LGBTQ but I will accept if 2 men give birth to a baby in jail.

[@robinwcollins]

Should ask why “just Pakistan?” Why not everywhere, why is Pakistan so special? Surely humans are humans. Shouldn’t the Koran apply everywhere and to everyone ? If a majority in Pakistan decided to change the law, would that change anything?

[@inversion9651]

Countries have their own values.

[@gangadin2873]

@@inversion9651 Only until muslims can't outvote you or conquer your land.

[@shahzaibsansi7848]

Homosexuality is a major sin in every major religion, Judiasm, christanity or Islam. We are only talking about about policies of a nation which can change over time as did in the west

[@robinwcollins]

@@inversion9651 so you are okay with any value a country has? How about slavery?

[@robinwcollins]

@@shahzaibsansi7848 surely that’s an argument against religion, not homosexuality? What’s your own objection to consensual sex between adults?

[@divykantverma1856]

If an Indian Interviewed on caste they will shit their pants., N final ans would be I'm an atheist, not hindu. I'm amazed these people saying it loudly.

[@fark69]

Yes it's very true. They are afraid to admit what is in their own books, and I think many do not actually know what things their gods did (eating meat for example!)

[@prariedogg2529]

1st 4 words are right.

[@IK-fg4gw]

Yaaaaassssss Queeeeeennnn!! (FLIPS FAN) from Pakistan 🇵🇰❤🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈

[@BG-uf8kh]

Bot

[@Ligh1sssss]

Disgusting. Homosexuality is banned in Pakistan now.

[@retrogamingfrenzy2373]

Lies

[@IK-fg4gw]

@@retrogamingfrenzy2373 lol weirdo

[@beatbeestudio2855]

they are right but they are weak at english to explain this

[@turkeysandwiche8552]

Yes

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.

[@kresnoaji9224]

They both look like a couple.

[@Some-random-user]

The thing is he stepped foot in pakistan they dont know english stop tryna act smart

[@saifurrahman995]

In madrissahs and mosques of Pakistan

[@Htimez2]

Hot take, it should be illegal everywhere 😆

[@Halausher]

Yh i agree😂😂🖕🏳️‍🌈🤢🖕

[@40s]

"why are you on the agree" because he is the slightly less ugly one and has a shot it escaping the cult, but only if an opportunity presents its self.

[@jjqq4116]

Where does this dream come from?

[@40s]

@@jjqq4116 I Have a theory that ugly people like rules more because it makes them feel safe. Good looking people can rely on opportunity rather than granted conditions.

[@CleverGirlAAH]

@@40s Hahaha... eh, well. I'd have to say I agree anecdotally.

[@fark69]

Interesting how the cult has better morals than an average Westerner who shifted from knowing homosexuality was wrong intuitively like 20 years ago, to thinking kid drag queen shows and widespread gender transition is a good thing

[@40s]

@@fark69 You are prematurely deciding the result of the gender debate. I think a large swath of Americans have figured out that live and let live with gays is no big deal (something gays have been trying to tell us all along), but the embracing of neo-gender ideology is grossly exaggerated.