“Drug Decriminalisation Doesn’t Work” | Peter Hitchens' Half Hour

Portugal decriminalised all drug use, including marijuana, cocaine and heroin, in an experiment that inspired similar efforts elsewhere, but now police are blaming a spike in the number of people who use drugs for a rise in crime.
TalkTV’s Mike Graham is joined by Mail on Sunday columnist Peter Hitchens who argues that the drugs lobby have finally been proved wrong, and that decriminalisation doesn’t work.
Peter says: “People that live in the Netherlands hate the way Amsterdam has become a zombie city”.
#talktv #talkradio

[@anthonywilliams6764]

The Amstredam drug problem is the tourists, NOT the locals. The dregs of humanity from many cities around the world get to Amsterdam, and make trouble, and rarely is the trouble caused by Dutch people, this does not validate the argument that legalisation of drugs is bad, it reinforces the argument that drug tourists who step out of line should be mopped up, and banned from re-entry into Holland under penalty of imprisonment.

[@SagaciousFrank]

Yeah, drugs are definitely not the problem at all, are they?!

[@paulsmith1981]

Amsterdam is a slim balls theme park.

[@johnhalpin1]

​@@SagaciousFrankI think the problem is that people would want to do drugs over having a successful life, I think that's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

[@edwardcatt2399]

Anything, _ANYTHING,_ just so long as we can maintain the myth that recreational drug use isn’t bad in and of itself! ‘Oh that’s just a symptom of the problem it doesn’t mean that there’s _actually_ a problem, correlation doesn’t mean causation _blah blah blah!’_ 🤣

[@johnhalpin1]

@@edwardcatt2399 you are correct , correlation does not mean causation. What drugs do you do or have you done? Since alcohol is a recreational drug, it is bad in and of itself? Just because you have a problem with something, does that mean it is a problem objectively?

[@nickpll]

I respect Hitchens greatly for standing up for the freedoms of individuals during the COVID lockdowns so it is disappointing to see him be so against it when it comes to this issue.

[@kamilziemian995]

He was against it long before Covid-19 appears on the scene.

[@colonelsmith7757]

You're clearly clueless then

[@RomaniaDeAzi]

Peter Hitchens is a horrible human for being such a dumbass. While he promotes the Idea that we should think and approach things logically. Hitchens prompotes the idea of MARIJUANA IS THE DEVIL with the same religious conviction of those that promotes that GOD exists. He is old and he's mind is gone. he is simply a failed intelect.

[@andybud1983]

It's hard to say, because it's decriminalised in one place, rather than everywhere, so you get all the scumbags going to just a couple of places.

[@leonardgibney2997]

What was the result of alcohol decriminalization? Some say the forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest.

[@bw1376]

Alcohol has never been illegal in the UK so has therefore never been decriminalised.

[@bw1376]

@@firefly0073 Here in the UK where we have never had prohibition, we still see the production, distribution and consumption of illegally produced and often dangerous alcohol.

[@MrTaytersDeep]

50 percent of all murders in the west have alcohol as a contributing factor I.e either the murder or victim is intoxicated

[@markjohnson188]

Prohibition made a lot of gangsters rich in the US. Unfortunately weed is only one of the substances being sold by these shysters. Wait until you see what Fentanyl does to the vulnerable.

[@baileycharlesworth7651]

Alcohol should’ve been banned years and years ago, usually the type of people that tell me I can’t have a joint have a fridge full of beer

[@aboutthemetal8783]

Full legalisation and regulation is the only way forward.

[@user-qe9gt5rg6t]

Drugs are a medical issue not a criminal one. Empathy and humanity please.

[@superfurrygaz1]

Neither does criminalizing them, but its better people dont have their futures ruined because of a little bit of weed when they were young etc.

[@wendywolfman]

Have a look at South Korea and Japan 😉

[@Alv11269]

@@wendywolfman as well as Singapore.

[@MrChristyCree]

@@wendywolfman There’s still a major drug scene in Japan, it’s just underground because of their culture. You can literally read up on it if you wanted to use your brain, y’know?

[@MrChristyCree]

@@Alv11269 Singapore has a massive gambling addiction problem. So, say it with me, DRACONIAN LAWS DO NOT SOLVE ADDICTION.

[@PrivateSi]

@@wendywolfman .. But they have a Fascistic streak and we have a libertarian and liberal streak. Different cultures. Maybe you should move to a more oppressive society. The justice system is Japan is a sick joke half the time as no corruption cases are ever brought no matter how obviously corrupt the case is. Singapore is run by Butchers (ie. Ultra Conservatives) that believe in hanging people, even for supplying recreational substances people actually want to take. If you support Collective Insanity, Move East, you'll love it... I'd recommend Islam for you Wendy.

[@beachcaster56]

50% of what he spouts is interesting but his views on drugs belong in the other 50% that are rubbish.I get the feeling he likes the sound of his own voice.

[@MrDanbowz]

What nonsense are you talking about? First of all, if you were to buy it from the shop you would know exactly what's inside it since it is labelled. You also most likely be able to buy a range of flavours and strengths. Secondly, gangs would need to massively undercut shop prices to attract customers which would put pressure on gangs and some might just give up in this area due to financial costs. Inculde severe penalties and gangs might turn round and say enough with playing chicken with the law and police and just go down the legal route. The amount of tax that could be collected would be insane and some ring fenced to provide support to those who want to stop. That's not even counting the cost saving effects such as police time,prison,courts etc.

[@r4vr4c]

A conservative journalist doesn't like drugs? who would have guessed

[@scoon2117]

And I'll bet he passes away from a liquor hardened liver.

[@pauljermyn5909]

I have a great deal of respect for Mr Hitchens and agree with most things he says, but he's talking out of his arse on this, drugs have been criminalised for all of my 58 years on the planet, I have always (if I had wanted to) been able to get drugs in any city in UK within 2 hours of arriving there, criminals make the money and control quality, prohibition and criminalisation in Britain hasn't affected supply or demand, in fact demand has increased, prohibition of alcohol or drugs hasn't worked anywhere on the planet ever, you can get alcohol and drugs in Saudi Arabia, Peter is very good at talking about things he understands, he doesn't understand this subject at all.

[@AntonHu]

Portugal seems to have just stopped enforcing, but didn't actually enable commercial sales, while NL just has a drug tourism problem. In California, it's only marijuana that has been legalised, so gangs still have a monopoly on the hard stuff.

[@angeurbain6129]

Drug criminalisation doesn't work either.

[@Kingrichardtheturd780]

The problem is people under the age of 21 taken it when their brain hasn't fully developed. if u go to a mental health unit you'll see all under 21's . legalise it and make it harder for under 21's to get hold of it .

[@beachcaster56]

Why would legalising it make it more difficult for under 21s to get hold of it ? That statement doesn't make any sense.

[@MrChristyCree]

@@beachcaster56 Because drug dealers don’t care who they sell to. But if it was legal you could restrict who gets it - like with gambling, cigarettes, alcohol etc.

[@lone8869]

​@beachcaster56 it doesn't make any sense because there is no sense in it. Anyone who thinks 21 and under won't get their hands on it is deluded.

[@MrChristyCree]

@@lone8869 Yes, but there’s more safeguards in place (ID checks), and if they do get their hands on it the drugs will be safer because they’re regulated. On top of that, because it will be normalised it will be less taboo and exciting - so will have less of an appeal to kids. Mate, all you have to do is use your brain rationally, like an adult. Just put it into gear rather than being scared 😂

[@Kingrichardtheturd780]

@@lone8869 Half of the appeal to these young adults is that its illegal. i dont ever remember growing up feeling the same way about alcohol because there is boundaries in place.

[@alanzee_]

It should be remembered that it is only cannabis that has been partly decriminalised - all the other stronger,more harmful and more addictive drugs are still as illegal as they ever where and still have all the associated violence and crime attached to their production and distribution.

[@fredhair]

Hold up, everything Hitchens is saying about decriminilisation is very little to do with the decriminilisation of drugs; the UK has all the problems and more. I've looked at this from various angles over the years and keep finding that decriminilisation is far better than criminalisation but the solution is not simply to just stop sentencing. I think the problem is that the money that was previously going into policing, sentencing, prisons etc does NOT get routed into education, safety, and health. I didn't see a single statistic quoted here, no studies, no investigations into the finances of funding criminalisation etc. I think Hitchens broadly has his head screwed on correctly about a lot of cultural issues but is letting himself get derailed here. This whole point he seems to be making here is if you don't get it right first time with virtually no effort at all, it must be flawed? No there's so many systems that are crap because they're corrupted; I mean the lawmakers of Canada and New York are not the brightest sparks, everything they touch turns to crap, they've never been in the least bit conservative in anything they do and it's no surprise that the problems they had before have continued much along the same lines. Drug users don't really care they're breaking the law so if you just change the law it really makes no difference at all. I think Hitchens rather goes onto totally prove the points that legalisation is indistinguishable from criminalisation and yet he still pinpoints the legalisation as the issue?

[@felixthecat3n2]

Zzzzzzzzz....

[@clorofilaazul]

"Drug Decriminalization doesn't work" hmm... ok... but wait... Drug criminalization also doesn't work! This guy is so full of hard core inquisitions morals :D

[@rs5001988]

But alcohol is fine ?

[@petersmith2522]

And look at the misery and carnage that causes these backward politicians have to go they should be illegal for holding us all back in life and funding criminal gangs in the process

[@MasalaMan]

In moderation is fine. But can you say the same for cocaine and heroin.

[@petersmith2522]

@@MasalaMan you can for cannabis get legalized 🙂

[@colonelsmith7757]

Hitchens doesn't like alcohol or tobacco either, he has said multiple times that it would be a very bad idea to introduce a third legal poison into our societies.

[@VinnyCarwash-js8op]

this same question from morons...

[@chriswest2290]

Its decriminalisated in thailand too. Theyre trying to bring the tourist back since covid.

[@barbarahalkyard1901]

Since when.

[@chriswest2290]

@@barbarahalkyard1901 what do you mean ?

[@chriswest2290]

@@barbarahalkyard1901 since 9th june 2022. I was living there at the time when it got discriminalise

[@seandrew7837]

@@chriswest2290 I bet you smell like a bunch of flowers 🙄

[@PickleThePig]

It means you can buy weed in Thailand legally from shops. You can’t smoke vapes in Thailand though.

[@Adamb87]

Legalisation and decriminalisation is the way to go , it's been decriminalised by society which is way ahead of the out of touch government

[@kevinb9830]

It's almost as if you didn't watch the video.

[@Adamb87]

@@kevinb9830ve heard Hitchens arguments on this a few times before, I also saw the vid Kevin, for me it's an issue Hitchens is out of touch with, which is rather unlike his critique of the Ukraine war which is on point

[@benphilips7235]

Mad, mad. 😲😲

[@kevinb9830]

@@Adamb87 So you're just going to ignore the evidence presented?

[@Adamb87]

@@kevinb9830s evidence is a selective set , but when I listen to multiple others give their own evidence scientists, psychologists, and most importantly based on my own or experiences of people , I support legalising and decriminalising most drugs . The quality drug tests & added safety for any user anytime is a massive plus of decriminalisation on its own along with a long list of others for society

[@zamiadams4343]

C'mon Peter! Chill out and smoke a big one, you need it.

[@seandrew7837]

Business struggling? 🤔

[@jerribee1]

​@@seandrew7837😂😂😂

[@ReformSaba]

Hitchens has really changed the way I think about decriminalising weed, I’m no longer so sure it’s a good idea

[@GregQchi]

There’s zero evidence that criminalisation of it achieves anything.

[@MadHatter1980]

Skin up Charva..

[@kyleklukas4808]

The squalor and every else he equates with cannabis... is all because the war China is having on the west

[@billysmith6284]

I voted to legalize cannabis in Colorado and regret it.. pot smokers I know smoke all day every day.. horrible and foolish..

[@MrScottskiuk]

I love Peter, but almost every week I hear him say the same thing about drugs. It is not true that the police do not enforce the law, it's also not true that the CPS don't prosecute for that matter. The issue is the sentencing guidelines which are set under the direction of the government. These tie the hands of the courts and make clear that save for the most serious of cases, custody will not be imposed. As always, the conservative government is to blame and must be held accountable.

[@stealthblox3057]

America had some very harsh sentences for crack cocaine and they were used heavily. However, people still continued to smoke crack. Sorry but punishing addicts does not work.

[@chriswest2290]

Legal weed is taxed, therfore its expensive. Black market will always undercut the price.

[@greentroll9326]

so answer to that i allow ppl to grow there own

[@chriswest2290]

@@greentroll9326 it's allowed in thailand. I'm not sure everyone has the time or want to put the effort in to grow. They just want the end product and will pay

[@MrChristyCree]

“Legal alcohol is taxed, therefore expensive. Black market will always undercut the price.” That’s how much of a fucking moron you sound for just trotting out talking points you can barely comprehend. How about you think and research for yourself rather than lazily following what someone is telling you to think 😂

[@jamesirvine9541]

Leagle 😂😂😂

[@jamesirvine9541]

@@user-yp7rn6tb2t 🤣🤣🤣

[@johnnicol64]

Having worked in Amsterdam for years , it works. Simple.

[@scoon2117]

Amsterdam is a den of hedonism and weakness.

[@Innerlight320]

Plenty of drug related harm and serious health problems. What works in your opinion

[@richierich7609]

I've been visiting Amsterdam since the 90's Back then it was considerably rougher and considerably wilder. What's happened since is a lot of rich kids from around Europe have bought and moved in to multimillion dollar houses from the 1600's and 1700's and they upsacled it, and they don't want the party atmosphere there anymore. So they've brought the curtain down on what it had been since the 1960's.

[@cuibono6872]

Amsterdam has always been a fantastic city and a culture vultures dream destination, there is drugs and the red light district, but well policed, smoking cannabis outside in public has always been taboo and a big no no, only in the cafes, and that was the only place you could buy it, if you dont want that, theres a 35 piece orchestra giving free concerts in the vondelpark three times a week, and some of the worlds finest art for pennies, but I havent been for 15 years, so no idea what it's like today, I dont know if the dutch have changed or perhaps the population of Amsterdam has been replaced.

[@bobmalooga7249]

spot on, the demagraphic of Amsterdam has changes out of all recognition. So sad but if you invite the 3rd world you become the 3rd world.

[@jumblestiltskin1365]

I was there about 5 years ago for a few days, it's a charming place outside of the sleeze, which in fairness is cordoned away pretty effectively. The museums and general tidiness were remarkable. The food less so though I felt 😂

[@bluescousenilsatis]

Hitchen talks some utter shite. He conflates decriminalisation with people's behaviour as though one causes the other. You can't fight an inanimate object, of which drugs are. So the war is on the users. Amsterdam has never legalised weed and they suffer with tourism from countries where people can't be open about smoking weed. If the UK decriminalised, why would I pay to go to Amsterdam as much as i love the city. People like Hitchens see nails everywhere which is why all he sees his a hammer as the solution. Keeping drugs illegal creates the crime, yet our legal drugs create the real damage, and we promote its use. Plan A has always failed, always will fail, so we have to have a plan B... he's suggesting keep plan A because he doesn't agree with B. After dinner cocaine use is fine because rich people know how to behave and aren't like the lower order.

[@bluescousenilsatis]

I have been visiting Amsterdam for over 40 years. Not been for 15, but the changes I have seen sadden me. Foreign tourists don't know how to behave when let out of their cages. Many on the piss for stag do's cause more nuisance than pot heads, but they aren't innocent either. I noticed the biggest change on the weed culture when it was sold by the gram. The hazy days of the 25 guilder bag long gone. It was an amazing place in the 80's but not so much now. Vondel Park is still a beautiful place, but people ruin places

[@whooptydoo6256]

Coloradoan here. This city is destroyed since legalizing marijuana. Crime has gone up every year since and every degenerate has moved here for it. 😢 .

[@neilmcdonnell2964]

It works when you put in mechanisms properly treating mental health, rehabilitation and addiction. You also put these services in place and have them running successfully before you decriminalise. You can't just go, "OK drugs are free now"

[@benphilips7235]

Prevention is better than cure.

[@ganndeber1621]

@@benphilips7235 Imprisonment is better than either

[@Rebelconformist82]

​@ganndeber1621 no its not.

[@ganndeber1621]

@@Rebelconformist82 Oh yes it is

[@ganndeber1621]

@@MrDarkraver79 My heart pumps purple piss for them, send them to prison for a very long time and stop crying about it. They have been educated and ignored it, they have had every chance and chose to take drugs ok now take the consequences. Dont waste any more money on education spend it on prisons for very very long sentences. Cry more sweetie

[@free..to..air..]

Doesnt surprise me...half the local population are off their heads most of the time...its not canals that attract tourists..its the smack..

[@MattieGroves]

Now that's a typical answer from a man that seems to know nothing about the subject 😂

[@johnkeane1419]

Criminalisation doesn't work either.

[@morwennamorrison5180]

Portugals drug policy is now failing due to lack of money 82 million down to 17 million. The elimination of gov assistance for the employment of recovering addicts. Etc etc. Also drug traffickers use Portugal as an entry point into Europe

[@mikedowning4869]

Isn't legalisation just indicative of the complete moral bankruptcy of our modern pleasure-seeking societies?

[@MrChristyCree]

No. Morality doesn’t come into it. Getting high is found in a range of animals - it’s a natural part of our psyche. We even alter our mental state when we’re kids when we spin around.

[@stealthblox3057]

No. It is a response to the fact that prohibition of drugs has created a situation where nasty men are abusing children and threatening their families to get them to smuggle drugs around countries to make them a lot of money. It is the response to the fact that prohibition has caused a situation where young children are being targeted by drug dealers pushing drugs on them. Legalisation is the obvious counter to a war that has failed for 50 years.

[@colonelsmith7757]

@@stealthblox3057 Oh yeah I'm sure introducing a third legal poison into our society, alongside alcohol and tobacco, will simply work wonders. The drug movers aren't going anywhere, they're simply undercutting the "legal" businesses and selling far stronger stuff for far less of a price, nobody legal can compete with that, so the end-result, as Hitchens said, is more people end up smoking weed.

[@VinnyCarwash-js8op]

Yes, it absolutely is. Bring back personal responsibility.

[@ehaaron]

no, availability in spite of being illegal is indicative of the complete moral bankruptcy.

[@gthang1157]

Bill hicks once said “ it’s like this, would you rather your daughter walk down the street at night past a group of lads that were drunk, or a group of lads who were stoned. 🤷‍♂️ not a difficult answer for a person with a brain. Alcohol is the cause of most violence, but they won’t ban that now will they.

[@whalefish83]

I'd settle for white.

[@BV-co7hy]

Mr Hitchens needs a THC Enema😮 Or maybe a cup of mushroom tea 😉

[@petersmith2522]

We all naturally produce thc in our bodies but i agree we need more its good for us in allsorts of ways

[@BV-co7hy]

@@petersmith2522 so is Psilocybin, saved me from depressive lows ✌️

[@seandrew7837]

@@BV-co7hy but you’re a dog 🤔

[@BV-co7hy]

@@seandrew7837 🤧 not only am I a dog, I’m a retired sniffer dog 🫵

[@Ian-gw2vx]

Just look at Manchester. I haven't been for years because of the way it has declined in the city centre.

[@michealkelliher8428]

I have leftwing beliefs, and I absolutely fully concur on Peter Hitchens, actually on many things. He speaks a lot of sense. I'm completely against the decriminalisation of drugs, as we decriminalised alcohol, and look how that's worked out here in Ireland, cost our health service over €3 billion per year in treating it. That worked out well. Not.

[@LiveFromLondon2]

the irish make stunning whiskey. And im sure the tax on alcolhol comes to more than 3bill. Do you realise that thanks to drinkers and smokers, liver and respitory diseases have been investigated far more than anything else in the body? So all you tee-total do-gooding twats have benefited massively.

[@michealkelliher8428]

@Peterbrendanalbert I can not speak for other countries, but here in Ireland, we've had a serious cultural problem with it.

[@stealthblox3057]

Sorry but people are going to drink and take drugs whether illegal or not. If making drugs illegal had any effect on drug consumption we wouldn't even be listening to Peter right now. There wouldn't be a drug problem. Prohibition doesn't work. Look at the USA with the prohibition of alcohol and all that caused. We need to look at other methods to deal with the inevitable fact that people will take drugs, even if it means they could go to prison.

[@michealkelliher8428]

@stealthblox3057 I agree to a degree. Prohibition does work actually, depending on the country and society, religious values, Singapore is a case in point. You bring drugs in there, you're dead. If alcohol was invented today, it would be against thd law, it would be banned, that's a fact, for all the trouble it has caused. So that's why Peter is still talking about this. We need to find a new way. I agree with you in that wee need to find other alternatives to prison.

[@johnhalpin1]

For me, I don't get to dictate what you ingest or what risks you take with your own body. I can only seek to help inform people's decisions as much as possible. Any attempt for me to impose what I believe, is wrong, in my opinion. Like telling a fat person they shouldn't eat as much or do some exercise. I mean, you can advise them, but should your advice become a lawful order? I think there's a discussion to be had about whether everyone should pay financially for the choices/mistakes of others.

[@stutoon2755]

This is a bloke who obviously whited out after 1 puff in front of some girls when he was younger and he has never and will never get over it.

[@johnkeane1419]

Comparisons to Singapore are crazy, it's a completely oppressive non-western culture.

[@gerardgauthier4876]

I rarely agree 'wholeheartedly' with Mr. Hitchens but on this topic I find myself cheering for his side.

[@notboring0]

Wrong.

[@Cornz38]

Of course, Hitchens conveniently neglects the 2 biggest LEGAL TAXABLE drugs that causes MUCH more harm than weed, namely tobacco and alcohol. His rhetoric is tedious, easily disproven and repetative.

[@MrChristyCree]

He’s mentioned them prior - he doesn’t like them, but considers it pointless to try and illegalise them. He sees them as bad and doesn’t want the same thing happening with drugs.

[@Cornz38]

@@MrChristyCree THC could be found to be the cure to cancer and Hitchens would still sound off against it. He is like a child having a tantrum, refusing to accquiese despite the evidence in front of him. He is the literal South Park Mr Mackey, drugs are bad, m'kay?

[@Nuggruk]

So why dont you disprove his rhetoric, if its so tedious and repetitive it should take you no time at all... or is it possibly that you actually can't make any reasoned arguement that addresses the points he makes?

[@Cornz38]

@@Nuggruk Becaue, i. like you , am a nobody with no platform, no fame (which Hitchens merely inherited from his far more talented brother) or any need. You only have to look at models where drugs have been decriminalised and PLEASE don't point at California. Their problem is bad governence, not drug laws.

[@MrChristyCree]

@@Nuggruk What would you like addressed, specifically?

[@billsellwood3280]

We've had illegal drugs universally for 50 years. A few places have legalised recreational drugs sporadically in the last few years. Of course these liberal places will attract the dregs of humanity. But give it a chance ! We have the same situation as the prohibition in the U.S.A. in the 1920's and have not learned the lesson. We pay a high price to be able to say "Thou shalt not".

[@chejones6058]

Prohibition doesn't work either. People like getting high. You won't change that.

[@gthang1157]

Canada’s violence problem down to marijuana 😂😂 good one Peter,It’s virtually impossible to be violent when your stoned.

[@dadaniel2467]

You can if you're driving

[@MrTaytersDeep]

You can if your the kinda person it makes psychotic

[@lottie4321]

He means drug dealers and gangs

[@ProfessorOFanthropology979]

More about what happens after you come down rather than being stoned

[@coniferclose]

You four talk crap.😂😂😂

[@NightOwlGames]

gov needs to beat street prices theres no way street can afford to lower the price.

[@petersmith2522]

The other countries arent as restrictive as us they are allowing people to grow up to 2 plants and have the option to buy it

[@NightOwlGames]

@@petersmith2522 if coffee shops charged 10 euros for 2grams beating the 10 euro for 1 gram street price people will go to the coffee shop instead of the shady street dealer this will put the street guys out of business theres no way they can compete with that. however its not like that is it? its the coffee shops charging 10 euros for 0.5 grams while street dealers sell it for 10 euro per gram its pretty obvious whos getting business.

[@jonathanshauf9191]

watching this high af

[@VinnyCarwash-js8op]

go and get a job you loser

[@sophisticatedmammal1826]

Cannabis users that have had brutal encounters with police and have served time are due compensation. Criminalizing a cannabis user for using cannabis is no different than criminalizing Jews or Muslims for being Jews and Muslims. Should Mr Hitchins be criminalized for believing in an invisible poltergeist that only exists in his infantile mental delusional? No he should not, but he should be made to pay the compensation...personally.

[@philgriff586]

Why? Many cannabis users are prone to violence. Why do you assume the violence was one way?

[@Leo_Cameron]

The drug paradise is a boozer pub on every corner where people go hungry because they don’t have an electric oven at home and the bar staff can make you a sandwich with out giving you an std

[@steveblease]

It must smell permanently like arsenal there.

[@StOrMmaGiiKz]

Another sun loving paper knowing nothing about nothing

[@The_Cosmic_Yog-Sothoth]

Peter for PM.

[@WernerKruger-jm6vl]

Alcohol is legal and it's sales are through the roof

[@webbo9798]

If you make drugs legal, the gangs will persist by either or both "undercutting" official prices and by offering much "stronger" thereby unregulated strains giving them a unique selling point to buyers. This just increases the black market and the profits for the gangsters proving it would never work. It has to be outlawed altogether by stopping to " normalise" it.

[@MrChristyCree]

What a dumb fucking statement. Here’s why legalisation and regulation is important. Drugs become safer - they’re not cut with shite, they’re not made too strong. Users will choose the legal route, over the black market route - as we have with alcohol and tobacco. Billions of tax revenue can be put into the mental health services (and more) meaning less cases of addiction. Heroin addicts can get prescribed, free heroin - meaning drug-related crime (old grannies being robbed) will drop. Violent crime will drop, as gangs won’t be having turf wars over drugs. Alcohol related crime will effectively drop as people will move towards weed. More police resources to investigate serious crime. Prisons will be less cramped. More money into the country as the black marketers put their money into banks. All you have to do is think rationally.

[@bw1376]

@@MrChristyCree Many people feel it is morally wrong to give heroin addicts "free" heroin. It would be like giving dieting pills to people suffering from anorexia.

[@MrChristyCree]

@@bw1376 Not quite the same. Addiction is often self-medication for mental health issues. Giving addicts free heroin, that’s clean, with clean needles and a safe space to use will - reduce disease, reduce deaths. If, whilst you do this, you then offer them mental health support when they’re ready - you give them a path to walk which will ultimately help them fight against addiction and create other coping mechanisms.

[@bw1376]

@@MrChristyCree It isn't free heroin. We as taxpayers would be paying for the drugs, the equipment and the facilities. A fast overdose would be most financially beneficial to taxpayers.

[@bw1376]

@@giraffe-neck2068 Five Lithuanian men died in an explosion, fire and smoke inhalation in Lincolnshire in 2011 at a makeshift illegal vodka factory. Just this year there are reports of illegal alcohol in many cities across the UK, like Leeds, Bolton, Glasgow, etc. It happens!

[@baileycharlesworth7651]

Talk tv is actually a joke when it comes to cannabis 😂 it’s like listening to two 90 year olds talking about it

[@jazztheglass6139]

Portugal is one of the cheapest places to buy heroin. You can buy a gram for £20, 10 good goes out of a gram, £2 a hit

[@NeilMelling-pw6ts]

Heroin is pure evil

[@MrChristyCree]

@@NeilMelling-pw6ts Morphine is evil? Sorry what? 😂

[@Cannonstroke]

Sounds like 1984

[@paulkeable2941]

Its the tourists not locals and sex trade also the red light district. Being a Criminal for cannabis is the worst violation of human rights. The amount of years people have served. The amounts of black people have been put away for abit of weed. Prison time for weed is wrong for 1 simple reason. The UK government has been producing and selling weed since the 1980s. The UK was one of the worlds biggest weed farm. The NHS has been using it for years. Are you telling me that the NHS has been giving out illegal weed ? While pharmaceutical have been making weed since 1980s but normal people serves time. The Cannabis laws in the UK are racist and unlawful.

[@mikedowning4869]

The pill was meant to reduce the number of abortions, but sexual mores changed in response, and the number of unwanted pregnancies went up instead.

[@celtspeaksgoth7251]

and STDs

[@PrincipledUncertainty]

I lived on and of in the Nederlands, back in the day, and Amsterdam is a mess. I advise visiting the smaller towns and meeting the real dutch.

[@Digibeatle09]

As regards cannabis - some are of the opinion (particularly long term users - I don’t touch the stuff) that the average “weed” on the market today is “stronger” than the type of stuff available back in the 1970s - like the stuff smoked by university lecturers (as they pronounced that the only way forward for Society was to embrace fully the teachings of K. Marx !)

[@kyleklukas4808]

Drug use and squalor has increased in all countries...UK too

[@stevecamm9733]

So, is Peter Hitchens saying that more people are taking drugs or that there is simply more crime through drug use because it's legal? Is the average person affected, or just a minority who are drug addicts?

[@AM2024uk]

If you legalised it, another curupt group will benifit, The government. This is the issue here they are not making cash (Tax) off it.

[@steadfastandyx4947]

I agree with Mr Hitchens. I also have a nieve, simple, theory : allow the drug users, abusers, libertarians to proceed. Let us see what results. Perhaps drug addicts take over society. Perhaps non drug addicts are allowed to live as we wish.

[@MrChristyCree]

You’re conflating drug users with drug addicts. Mate, all it takes is the bare minimum of life experience and research - then you won’t be sounding like a fucking idiot online.

[@Metamorfues]

oh please.

[@ulrickennedy4920]

Let's ask a guy who's never taken drugs, what we should do with them. It's an unarguable fact...that the countries with the most authoritarian measures against drugs, have the highest drug usage. The Phillipines will execute you for taking heroin in some cases...yet more of their population takes it than Britain's (once you adjust the population sizes...we take much less than countries who impose stricter measures against it). Decriminalisation does lead to lesser use. The Netherlands decriminalised prostitution...as a result they have lower amounts of pedophilia, incest, rape and beastiality than most other countries worldwide...doesn't take a genius to figure out how. Oppressing people and their choices...does nothing to prevent them making those choices. But tbh I expect nothing less from an authoritarian like Peter Hitchens...claims not to be a Marxist anymore, but hasn't stopped trying to impose his views on the rest of the world. The world would be a very unhappy place if we all listened to Peter Hitchens. Ironically the type of cancer that killed his brother Christopher...can be cured with Rick Simpson oil. Truly Ironic...I hope Peter reads this.

[@saintdominicreview]

Peter Hitchens has been riding on his dead, alcoholic brother's coattails for 20 years. A sad, arrogant nobody...

[@seandrew7837]

His brother was called, ‘Christopher’

[@ulrickennedy4920]

@@seandrew7837 my mistake

[@stuartmc18]

I think you're getting cause and effect mixed up. The countries with the highest drug usage take more draconian steps to combat it. I will also add that we are over simplifying the issue here as there are a multitude of social factors that contribute to drug abuse. Peter is making the point that legalising drug use causes more problems and doesn't solve the problems that is claimed by it's proponents.

[@MasalaMan]

Japan also has crazy laws against drug use and yet I don't see them with a high rate of drug users.

[@cameronidk2]

That was Test study wasn't it? I would say Portland Oregon is the second , San Francisco another example ..

[@ianknealy2843]

i think im going mad

[@johnbuoy1401]

Wipe out any ties with heroin producing countries instead of having wars there to secure the trade? Just a thought 🙄

[@martinpidhany8278]

Watch vancouver is dying to see what liberal drug policies have created.

[@scorpiorob7986]

I don't care what 'Peter Hitchens' or any politician says, but NATURE (including 'Marijuanna' and 'Magic mushrooms' and all natural entheogens), really should NEVER be ILLEGAL. Education is the way forward, not prohibition.

[@tytzup5397]

The thing about drugs is. Theyre very enjoyable. Its why millions of people use them.

[@bato2699]

Its like starving Peoples and then get angry that People eat. It was your fault starving People. Now when you made them a major problem. But you just close your eyes and forget that it was the state that made it wort big money. Its their fault.

[@rjflores438]

I agree with Peter that shoplifting should be illegal, but not sure why he is somehow putting this in the same conversation with marijuana possession for personal use.

[@Indicasativa55]

Weeds to expensive in Amsterdam and far cheaper to buy here but the shrooms are awesome

[@user-qe9gt5rg6t]

Everything happens for a reason. Shoplifting...Poverty. let's look at that.

[@fredhunter7129]

Why not legalise gun carry as well. To me legalising drug use is just the way governments get rid of unwanted population

[@MattieGroves]

The percentage of people in the west that use illegal drugs is around 20%. The rest are the average man and woman in the street most of whom you would never know about their drug use .

[@MrChristyCree]

A bizarre, non-factual statement that relies on the trope that all drugs will kill you. Drugs don’t kill - misuse does. Why people like you feel confident enough to talk about a subject they’re dumb on I have no idea. Just on the internet, casually talking shite 😂

[@colonelsmith7757]

@@MattieGroves Oh yeah like it's not patently obvious whenever someone is high, as if you can't smell it either. Piss off, normal people know a user when they see one.

[@samsonmcmuffin6022]

It is extremely difficult to make any case that the war on drugs has worked. But yeah let’s carry on with that. Madness. Legalise and regulate them all.

[@SgtAndrewM]

You didn't listen to a word he said did you

[@samsonmcmuffin6022]

@@SgtAndrewM yeah I did. Some good points as there should be in any good debate. However when you weigh up the pros and cons of the war on drugs, it is not much of a contest in my opinion.

[@doasyoulikefawkes7127]

Peter Hitchens is a half way decent journo. But having such narrow knowledge on such a diverse subject is a bit underwhelming. The purpose of the 1971 misuse of drugs act was partly to protect the user from fraudulent fake substances. The discription of the substance needs to change, along with the narrative. This is a debate which will never end....

[@MartinGreen932]

People the world over will take drugs of all sorts until there are no humans left. You can do 1) Have the supply and regulation controlled by organised crime groups or 2) Have the supply and regulation controlled by government. I am usually against government intervention in anything. But on this subject it is simply a no brainer.

[@benphilips7235]

Not a fan of Peter's on some stuff, but on this I believe he is bang on. To hear liberal commentators extolling the virtues of legalising drugs is to watch the lunatics taking over the asylum. I cannot imagine how awful this country would feel if we did so. As if we aren't surrounded by enough squalor as it is!

[@petersmith2522]

You have no knowlege on the subject

[@MrChristyCree]

Spoken like someone with no education on the matter.

[@benphilips7235]

@@petersmith2522 How does legalising drugs help the health of the country? Any money raised will simply be spent on curing yet another group of patients in an NHS which is already overrun. Second,what do you say to the drugs charities which spend their time trying to wean people off them? 'Give up and do something else?'

[@petersmith2522]

@@benphilips7235 but everyone does them drugs anyway have done for many years cannabis was even found in the holy temples and ancient china and the human body actually has a cannabis system built in these things being illegal just means people like you or me are taking all the money and not the country and people and it also means drugs are not as good and more dangerous look at australia mdma mushrooms cannabis all legal and alot more clean and effective

[@MrChristyCree]

@@benphilips7235 Addiction and mental health are intrinsically linked. You spend the billions made to fund mental health services across the board - thus making addiction levels drop, and helping those struggling. Then you have the money saved from police resources currently being wasted on a nonsense war on drugs. You free up prison spaces. Addicts can and used to function in society back when you could get heroin prescribed - the moment they illegalised it was when you got the issues with crime and disease. Drug-related crime would drop. Drug-related violence would drop.

[@davidelliot7834]

Drugs are for mugs.

[@HCP5]

Yes, and beers are for queers. Because it rimes, it’s true is it?

[@beachcaster56]

I agree....but sadly there are a lot of mugs around. 90% of drug taking is self-medication.

[@MattieGroves]

Why do people make comments with no knowledge of the subject whatsoever including Mr Hitchens it seems.

[@lunatunauk3100]

It did in Russia, Asia. If you apply the right amount of consequence for drugs then de-criminalizing it DOES WORK.

[@kevinb9830]

what does 'the right amount of consequence' mean if it's decriminalised?

[@sensibill1]

He needs to loosen up. He needs a doobie

[@timsyoutube6051]

Peter Hitchens has to be the most ill informed man on earth about this subject. Obviously gangs will find other ways to make money but why should i have to buy from gangsters if it can be sold in shops and regulated?

[@celtspeaksgoth7251]

because regulation of sales to people means addicted customers will be forced to return to street corner drug dealers to get more. Duh.

[@timsyoutube6051]

@@celtspeaksgoth7251 regulation of the drug itself Mr genius. So we know how it's grown and what it contains. Not a restriction on how much people can buy.

[@MattieGroves]

Read Drug use for grownups by Dr Karl Hart you may be surprised.

[@Leo_Cameron]

ban smoking

[@SagaciousFrank]

Peter Hitchens 1/3 Half Hour.

[@Leo_Cameron]

What drug paradise no one likes what is currently happening if they can see further than their own street

[@joerobinson1672]

The people at the top are fine

[@3rdDogGhostband]

Nonsense, what a grim picture, not true😎

[@ianwarnes6197]

Hitchens ,, the bs brother .

[@stevo7163]

What the hell does Hitchens know about drug use and the working class?

[@wolffo999]

it works if your goal is a ghetto

[@Nuggruk]

We have never fought the war on drugs, ever. If you want to stop illegal drug use then go after the Users. 1st offence, a warning if and only if you give evidence against whoever sold / provided the drugs, if you wont give evidence... 1 year in Jail, no remission. 2nd offence, 1 month or two years in prison if you refuse to give evidence, 3rd offence the same. 10 years in prison for any Prison Officers found guilty of enabling the supply of drugs into the prison. If found guilty of supplying drugs, 10 years in prison, no exceptions.

[@stealthblox3057]

I hope you never have children. I would feel so sorry for you when they got caught taking drugs. And don't tell me you wouldn't let them take drugs, you cannot control your children, no matter how hard you try. Also, you can't put 14 year olds in prison, and lots of 14 year olds take drugs.

[@evilreligion]

They tried that for decades in many countries and the net result is more drugs were used. Prohibition does not work, it never has. If you want to stop people from doing things they enjoy then the only way you do it is by having a totalitarian regime, with stringent monitoring of the population. And even that fails eventually cos the people get pissed off. It does not work with prostitution, porn, drugs, alcohol or with gambling, or anything else. These vices will always be with us regardless of how strict the law is. Besides which it is not the government's business to be the morality police, when they try they always fail especially in individualistic societies like the US and the UK.

[@Nuggruk]

​@@stealthblox3057 I have grandchildren who are on the point of having children and whilst I wouldnt be so foolish as to wager that none of my Children or Grandchildren have tried a spliff (or whatever) thats not the arguement I was making. I said we have never fought a real war on drugs and we have not and I offered a view on how such a war could be fought if there was a real desire to do so. Of course a real policy would be more nuanced and would require, for example, a massive expansion of drug support therapies and eductional opportunities in Prisons or perhaps in the community but its very difficult to make such an arguement on a KZbin forum. However, the fact remains that if you want to stop people using drugs... go after the users, its the only real option.

[@stealthblox3057]

@@Nuggruk Sorry but I disagree. I consider many of the users to be the victims of the crime, and not the criminals themselves. It is drug pushers who are the criminals currently. You need to think about what the actual issue is we are trying to solve. Most people just think "Drugs = Bad". However, if you really think about it, we are trying to stop the harm caused by drugs, which almost all is the harm that is caused to the users. Other than heroin addicts who might steal from you to pay for it (which is a separate crime with separate laws in place to deal with it) there is no real danger to society caused by users. However, the people we currently allow to distribute drugs (the dealers) do cause a risk to society. They risk your children becoming addicted to drugs, your children's death through overdose or contaminated drugs and violent crime (knife and gun crime being quite high in the drug pushing community). Legalising drugs with a nuanced approach that recognises that children will buy from the black market if we don't consider that children taking drugs is inevitable will stop the dangers to society caused by the current system that puts all of the money and power into the hands of the criminal gangs. Penalising drug users would be like arresting you for someone stealing your car. A bit like in some countries in the past where they would criminalise women for being raped.

[@Nuggruk]

@@stealthblox3057 Having spent a great deal of time in San Francisco over the last 10 years I do indeed think 'Drugs = Bad'. I dont think any of my friends or family in that once great city would agree with you when you say 'there is no real danger to society caused by users'. The corolation between drug use and mental illness leading to violence and other unpleasant situations is far far stronger than the corolation (and now proven causation) of cigarettes and lung cancer but for some reason (making the rich richer) we are talking about legalising drugs rather than enforcing the ban on their distribution and use. Of course the 'Dealers' are the greater evil, that is why I suggest cautions/warnings for users if they identify and give evidence against the dealers and why I said any dealer should receive a minimum of 10 years in prison. Finally, conflating punishing people who 'choose' to use drugs with women being criminalised for being raped is just so wrong-headed I am at a loss as to how to respond so I won't try.

[@rjflores438]

Peter loses me when it comes to cannabis, prosecuting people for smoking cannabis is absurd. He should have the same views on alcohol as well but im sure he doesn't, since alcohol kills hundreds of thousands of people worldwide every year when it is abused, even caffiene is more deadly than weed, and the reason the weed today is so much stronger with a higher THC content is due to criminalization, at least in the Amsterdam coffeeshops you know the strength of the weed. I dont think weed should be smoked everyday but just something that is consumed now and again, it doesnt suit everyone and you can get paranoid and anxious if you are smoking it in the wrong settings and the THC is too high for your tolerance, but criminalizing a plant that has never killed anyone in human history is absurd.

[@jumior]

Yea your right calling all cartel heads plz plz come back and run or drug trade ,