Druid & Circle of the Moon | Unearthed Arcana | D&D

[@cybermage99]

Just finished going through this, and the main thing I want to note is that Druid has lost the ability to tank. Since wild shape uses your own HP and your AC is likely going to be lower in wildshape, even a moon druid is going to be less effective in their wildshape than their normal form in most cases. The template provides flavor, but I personally feel like in order to cater to the spellcasting nature man that the shapechanging aspect has suffered. The class does now get access to a multiattack through the wildshape, and potentially a 3rd attack through moon druid unarmed strike (assuming unarmed strike uses the beast's attack), but you also lose all class features, feats, and equipment without compromise now. Previously you could retain magic items if they suited your form, and it was ambiguous whether specific feats such as mobile would carry over. I feel that if the idea is to be more flexible in your shape shifting then those features should be more permissible not less. My Suggested changes for Druid: 1. Temp HP scaling with level for wildshape, when you expend a use of the feature gain some defensive buff, My thoughts were 4 temp hp per level for land, 5 for sea, and 2 for sky. I think that is on the low side given the current opportunity cost of being wildshaped. The sea one gets more because it is the most situational wildshape, it should be good for when it is present. 2. 13th level ability should be added to Moon druid at 14th and a new ability should be made for the general class. You have already allowed wildshape the ability to speak which was the primary reason for dropping the form early previously. Turning back to cast a spell is great but unless other subclasses are getting a substantial buff to their wildshape as well, they wont be in wildshape in combat in the first place. My suggestion would be a free cast speak with animals/plants or animal friendship ability to replace the 13th level ability, but that is just off the top of my head. 3. Capstone (18): Please stop with the "On initiative regain x expended uses of" capstones. They are boring and feel insignificant, by the time you reach this level you should have enough uses to last between rests. Please give something that makes the class feel more powerful, rather than just gaining additional usage. Infinite wildshapes was amazing and overpowered on moon druid because of crazy tanking potential, however with current wild shape it wouldn't change much since there is no extra hp. Even with the proposed temp HP suggestion this would still be much weaker than it was and still feel powerful. Overall: It feels like this class was nerfed hard for the sake of simplicity. There are several nerfs that seem to try to fix the same problem but ultimately leave the class underwhelming. Druid went from my favorite class in the game to my least interested in this UA thus far.

[@iammattis1479]

I think if they add the tanking abilities, then the 13th level feature should stay for all the druids. It’s a really cool feature in my opinion, and I would love to use it on any Druid - if I had a reason to wildshape, and I currently don’t think there’s a big enough reason to do that in combat. I definitely agree that wild shape should offer some tanking potential. However, Temp HP might not be the only way to do that. Some other things that could work: - Resistance to non magical bludgeoning-piercing-slashing (could instead be a higher level feature) - Buffed armor class (to make up for the fact that druids can’t wear plate even with proficiency, although I can’t remember if they dropped that from this UA) - Can spend hit dice in combat to regain HP as a bonus action

[@snoochieboochies2011]

DRUIDS ARE NOT MEANT TO TANK ANYMORE. WILD SHAPE IS STILL STRONGER THAN BASE FORM BECAUSE THEY HAVE LIGHT ARMOR NOW.

[@kevinhenderson3243]

As someone who loves playing the "spellcasting nature man" I do not feel catered to. Honestly Circle of the Land was already perfect to just be a good nature themed magic user, wild shape was nice utility, you can heal, and with expanded spell you can even throw lightning bolts, Land(Mountain) Druid was absolutely my favorite subclass in the phb and while i think the channel nature thing is cool in theory its execution. wildshape is much worse than PHB druid, and the Channel Nature overall feels bad compared to Onednd Clerics Channel Divinity.

[@snoochieboochies2011]

@@kevinhenderson3243 I feel it frees up spell slots to be the nature wizard at lower levels. with channel divinity it also means I don't need to have goodberry and healing word prepared.

[@Hesauce]

​@@snoochieboochies2011 Light armor and shield is still going to be better than Wild Shape. With just a +2 Dex, Studded Leather, and a Shield you're at 16 AC which is better than any Wild Shape form

[@fightingcorsair7297]

So, a druid can look like a horse, eagle or dolphin but not be as fast as one. Or look like a bear and not be as strong as one. Or look like a snake or spider and not have venom or webs. What is the point then?

[@XykonOverlord]

You can shapeshift into a different human. You don’t change your creature type, and it just says you become a “terrestrial animal” which most humanoids are by definition. This is the true purpose of the new Druid.

[@cloudstone123]

Not being the equivalent of yo-yo for balance when it comes to playing them. They outshine martial classes in the beginning then later become a punching bag until elemental shapes kick in which then become another punching bag later.

[@Watsabeholder]

@@cloudstone123 You're right, they did fix it being a yo-yo. Now, they're just a punching bag. This Wildshape change is just bad.

[@cloudstone123]

@@Watsabeholder They were a punching bag before depending on your level. A bear isn't going to be doing much to a dragon, neither is a giant toad. A fire elemental also isn't doing much to a balor either. Now they have the ability room to make adjustments that would be required so they don't become punching bags they already are at those levels.

[@Watsabeholder]

@@cloudstone123 the damage numbers are not going to scale well, you lose any unique movement utility, I'll remind you that in 5e you could become a good damn mammoth, and the 'adjustments' don't do near enough to keep up. This is punching bag druid at all levels.

[@Tyler-o2s]

Wish we didn't lose so many options with the wildshape statblocks. No poison, no burrowing speed, no pounce.

[@hoid9407]

​@@tylermc3031 That is desperately needed. It also no longer provides a HP buffer like it used to, you just keep using your current hp. And you can't choose to wear any of your items. It just gives merge or drop options, so there's no way to buff your animal forms.

[@brandonh2151]

Let them know through the survey when it comes out. I agree I think when we have these options to "beef up our wildshapes" we should have options. Maybe I want to be a fire wolf or maybe I want to be able to have access to poisons. They leaning more into the customizable aspect for druids so a few nudges from the community could certainly make something like this happen in the future

[@pedrogarcia8706]

@@incendiious That's what moon druid is supposed to be...

[@BraveryBeyond]

Same. I'd love to see a "build-a-wildshape" approach where you have a list of abilities you choose to slot in when you transform. It might also be a better way to balance aquatic and flying wildshapes where you're sacrificing another ability to gain the extra movement type.

[@jwell4638]

Loss of speed is the biggest aspect, honestly. 40 ft is pretty ponderous for most beasts, whether running or flying.

[@SirEnderGaming]

I'm a bit worried that wildshapes lose some of those cool strategies that using beast statblocks have. I understand the change as it makes balancing stuff easier and player's don't have to read through tons of monsters to find the ones to use. But changing into a giant frog that can literally eat other creatures, charging at monsters as a boar or pounce at them as a panther. The reworked beastmaster companions in Tasha's had some unique features based on which type (land, water, air) the ranger chose for their companion. I think the wildshape feature would be much approved by something similar. Perphaps a list of features to choose from would work quite well. Besides that, I really like the new changes to the druid and look forward to seeing how the playtests evolve.

[@Sanglant4342]

I don't think he mentions how in Animal of the Land your Str and Dex get replaced by your Wis stat so a 20 Wisdom Druid in Animal of the land form also has a 20 Str and 20 Dex, which opens some cool stuff with your grapple DC with the free unarmed strike as a moon druid being 8 + Wis + PB which as a level 5 druid could be 8 + 5 + 3 = 16 which is really good. Not to mention your stealth skill and athletic skill can be good too. Shapeshift into a monkey with a dex of 20 and you can pick pocket and stealth and so much cool stuff with a + Wis Mod. Means a druid who dumps everything into wis can still do cool shit while shape shifted more then they could as normal.

[@daviddeen]

I was thinking the exact same thing. You lose all the fun abilities, and any strategic decision on which animal to turn into. If you can pick 1 feature from a list as you change, it would help that.

[@ninjahappysquid]

@@daviddeen Totally!! Have "Pounce, Ram, Pack Tactics, Swollow, etc." And since that would add complexity, you could incorporate it as just part of the "Circle of the Moon", since that subclass seemed like a pretty underwhelming change from the base class compared to how it used to work.

[@lightwings9042]

YES! it would be erally intresting to be able to choose abilities as you level up!

[@Infa1987]

Moon druid just got made absolutely terrible and lost all of its amazing stuff. moon druid will reward players being smart with which forms they shift in to given the situation and that is all taken away in this new play test material. the forms are not great at all and doing 2d8 +4 or something at lvl 12 compared to the beast forms that you could have with regular moon druid does not sound great. the only thing that is nice is being able to retain the ability to speak in wildshape and being able to cast abjuration spells but that is it. losing the unlimited wild shape from arch druid also sucks and no elemental transformation anymore it just is such a shame and they said druids are the least played class this will make it even worse

[@dungeonsandcritters4812]

So using wild shape, the core druid feature with limited use, achieves as follows: lowers AC, gives attack of the same strength as unlimited cantrip which you only need bonus action to cast and stops you from casting spells. Also, my brand new claws don't deal magical dmg unless I'm a moon druid and I lost all utility of turning into cats, spiders etc. Why would I ever wild shape? Moon druid in 5e is one of my favourite options, this is the worst class I've ever read.

[@XykonOverlord]

Why would you ever wildshape? You can shapeshift into a different human. You don’t change your creature type, and it just says you become a “terrestrial animal” which most humanoids are by definition. This is the true purpose of the new Druid.

[@cloudstone123]

It didn't lower AC. One of the problems is that early on you could turn into a bear that had multiple attacks and it gave you that HP buffer too, making you better than any martial class. But its AC was always 11 (or 13 at most with the other bear). So the AC hasn't really changed much. If anything in some cases it increased it a bit. By level 8, you could easily be an AC 15 bear. What the actual issue is that you still have that low AC that caps out at 15 but no HP buffer as you get higher in level. Now you still get the extra attack but the same way any other class still has it so you no longer easily outshine a martial class. That is actually easily fixable which it wasn't by using the MM stat blocks. Throw in another scalable modifier to the AC or HP and you got the tankiness back.

[@dungeonsandcritters4812]

@@cloudstone123 I didn't mean it lowered AC compared to old options. It lowers your Druid AC. With light armor, shield and some dexterity you can very easily have 17 AC on lvl 1 and suddenly change it to 13 for no benefit.

[@cloudstone123]

@@dungeonsandcritters4812 Then you are not making any sense since they can still use light armor and a shield and still get 17 AC. Or 18 since they can now use studded leather. What they lost in that capacity was medium armor proficiency which means no more hide armor. Before the only restriction was they couldn't wear metal which meant hide armor only and using medium armor, unless you came up with an inventive way to make half-plate not metal, then your max was 17 just like it could be with light armor. Now that restriction on metal is gone because why bother if you take away medium armor proficiency.

[@RasmusVJS]

@@cloudstone123 He is saying that new Wild Shape has lower AC than new Druid.

[@DanMcKillop]

Good news: Druids can wear metal armor Druids can talk while wild shaped Bad news: Everything else

[@TaranTatsuuchi]

They lost training in medium armor... Are there light metal armors?

[@CaitSith87]

@@TaranTatsuuchi esl isn’t studded meaning improved leather with metal?

[@zedbee2736]

The "You can transform into your humanoid form for a minute or less and then back into the same animal form" part is pretty damn good ngl

[@DanMcKillop]

@@TaranTatsuuchi I assume there will still be feats granting use of heavier armor. Also, multi classing is still a thing.

[@cloudstone123]

@@DanMcKillop True. They probably decided to do that because multi classing can be hard enough so why penalize that further. The whole non-metal thing was just carried over from old versions and arguments can be made about why it was nonsensical like putting level caps on non-humans in the rules.

[@snipegrzywa]

Wait, so you not only use your own HP while wildshaped, but there is no damage scaling . . . so the design intent is wild shape is no longer a combat ability??

[@georgehancock652]

It makes tanking with bear form really messy, as you have to set up for bark skin first. I think the older iterations of hunter pets/druid in WoW gets it more on track. Aquatic and flying travel forms and then a tank or DPS form which can either swim/climb/burrow a little.

[@notsochosenone5669]

multiattack on 5th level, additional elemental damage on 10th and 17th - looks like scaling to me. Also remember - you are full caster on top of wildshape.

[@snipegrzywa]

@@notsochosenone5669 You are an abjuration caster while in wild shape. Even with the multi attack and the elemental damage , OK, it technically scales, But scales poorly. Unless one dnd is completely revamping everyone's damage, it seems weak. And I have yet to see anything that will alter the action economy in the game, so healing during combat is almost always the wrong use of your turn unless someone is unconscious.

[@jarydf]

It is no longer a utility ability either with all the little minor abilities of certain forms taken away, and tiny size gated at 11th level and now for only minutes, plus swimming and flying at 7th and 9th. Also elemental forms are gone as well. OneD&D seems to be all about nerfing to have higher levels feel more relevant because you now have to be higher level to do anything. In practice they will just turn into abilities you never get to use.

[@notsochosenone5669]

@@jarydf "OneD&D seems to be all about nerfing to have higher levels feel more relevant because you now have to be higher level to do anything." - thats how it suppose to work, yes. It is problem now?

[@jarydf]

This UA looks like a version of moon druid written by someone who does not like moon druids.

[@skippy9273]

Okay, I'm actually a moon druid hater, but only because they hog wildshape all to themselves leaving the rest of druids with almost nothing

[@nimnim4699]

Moon druid is my favorite and this is actually quite exciting.. idk we'll have to try it!

[@Dusterr23]

@@skippy9273 They could bring other Druids up without making moon druid useless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@skippy9273]

@@Dusterr23 if it was up to me, moon druid would be abolished and all druids get combat wildshape and the name can be retooled into a more direct lycanthropy themed subclass.

[@Dusterr23]

@@skippy9273 I'm glad you're not designing druids then. I'm all for bringing wildshape up for other druids a bit, but I love that moon is specialized for it.

[@JoshuaSmith-hl1xj]

The loss of temp hp for the wild shape is the biggest loss outside of unique abilities of some animals no longer available.

[@vvsandgaming4648]

the Wildshape in this version is kind of like how it works in PF2e

[@valeclaw1697]

@@vvsandgaming4648 but pf2e's just gives way more options beyond "animals" which I think offsets it.

[@ninjahappysquid]

Agreed. I get the desire to simplify, it was really a pain to have to look through all the individual beast stat blocks, but I think that they could bring some of that back - and personally the Circle of the Moon seems pretty underwhelming, so maybe they could add that in as a feature for that subclass? "When you transform, pick a bonus ability - Pounce, Ram, Pack Tactics, etc."

[@___i3ambi126]

Some animals? There are 3 total. It makes them all bad since they want to attack at melee with no evasiveness or extra effective health.

[@kamchatmonk]

Frankly, the HP buffer was quite unfair. An easy way to escape death or throw a TON of HP at enemies at the cost of one use of a feature.

[@Mathurian]

I understand the desire to change Wild Shape, but this feels weaker by a vast margin. Wild Shape loses HP buffer, has less damage potential, less versatility, and gains really nothing other than simplicity. I'm struggling to see why you would even want to Wild Shape, other than just for a story beat, as you really don't gain much from doing so. Without the HP buffer, the druid is no longer going to be a front line combatant, so all that leaves you is being a caster, which you mostly can't do in wild shape, or at least not as well. Seems like they are moving the druid away from a focus on Wild Shape, which is fine, but they appear to have done it by hugely nerfing Wild Shape to the point of it being a cool side ability, instead of the main ability, yet they've done this without really adding anything. It went from, "Druids, choose at any given time between being a strong caster or a powerful creature", to, "Be a caster, because you really can't be a powerful creature any more".

[@snipegrzywa]

While I agree with you 100%, I did realize something when reading your comment. Circle of the Moon wild shape would allow the Druid to at least be able to cast heal spells AND do a bonus action melee attack. One of the biggest issues with healing in 5e is economy of action means its rarely the smart play to heal someone. However, if you could heal and still get an attack in, even a weak one, does make it slightly more appeasing.

[@Mathurian]

@@snipegrzywa It is not unfeasible, but looking at the new AC, and having to use my own HP pool, as a Druid, I no longer think you really want to be in melee combat in the first place. I guess it is at least a possibility, and if you are in melee combat, you might as well do it (assuming you have the spell slot and want to use it), but it still doesn't feel to me like a class I will want to play any more.

[@snipegrzywa]

@@Mathurian ya, that's exactly the problem. It's providing an interesting use case, but everything else doesn't really provide you with what you need to make it worth it

[@cloudstone123]

@@Mathurian It gains narrative context. But okay, lets look at it another way then based mechanics and from the perspective of comparing it to other classes that it has something in common with. Why would you want to go into melee as a hexblade? They are just as squishy, have less spell options but are designed for melee. Druids have a bigger pool of magic to draw from than a Hexblade that they could cast before wildshaping, and they can self heal. Hexblades cannot unless they kill something and their extra damage isn't even that great. The best added layer of protection a hexblade could get by comparison is mirror image. Later you get Blink (if it triggers). But then you are out of options. Moon druid is not. You can also use Shield if you can work it in and assuming they don't redesign things to take an option like that away. The only versatility I can think of that you'd be losing out on in animal shapes would be things like grasping something with tentacles as an octopus, or maybe eating something as a giant frog. But those aren't really great given that the DC behind all that never changes. Personally I think that is a small sacrifice from a designed perspective compared to a more controllable stat block that can be easily tweaked. Some of your concerns are easily fixable. Add proficiency bonus to AC as well as wisdom modifier. That fixes some of the tankiness. I'd hesitate to add a HP buffer too like temp HP equal to 2 or 3x profiency bonus. Because mechanically if they started being directly comparable to other pure martial classes and yet have full magical capabilities, why from a stance of pure mechanics would you NOT play this particular druid instead of the less versatile martial classes?

[@thomaskiser3886]

@@cloudstone123why not? Because I’m a caster who can turn into shapes and I am still a weak druid caster that can just turn into animals. All wild shapes are the same and not exciting. They are trying to make it easier to get to the forms but they are ALL THE SAME! That is BORING! For 20 levels you wanna do that? Land, sea and sky and o cool bonuses to being said creature? Oh but DM can work with you-if it isn’t in the rules you don’t get tentacles or cool boar gestures or pack tactics as a dog….it is such a big nerf. Did you okay a Druid ever? This new druid sucks butt

[@spiderwrangler4457]

"At higher levels, you're going to gain the ability to become tiny for a limited amount of time." "Oh, awesome!" Not the way I'd describe waiting until 11th level to unlock burning a wildshape for 10 minutes as tiny, but I guess they are scared of druids being able to scout the enemy stronghold as a spider...

[@onceuponatimeandspace]

Yeah I think now that Druids have their own hit points, they're suddenly terrified of spiders with player hit points lol Though if I heard of an unkillable spider, I would be inclined to agree

[@chaddeshaw5068]

Scouting as a spider is awesome. Frightening. At any moment you could be smashed and boom, exposed!!! Don't take that away wotc

[@quily2002]

That was the part where I realized how disingenuous this video was. todd and jeremy both well know that druids have been able to wildshape into a cat at early levels in 5e. This is not a new thing. Saying "Ohhh AWESOME!" to something that (A) already exists and (B) is a strict nerf as to when you get it feels like this is just a puff piece to convince people to like these changes.

[@joshuamcleod3442]

@@quily2002 i thought the same exact thing. They don't want it to be a Combat thing...Which is fine....But then they make the Moon druid who is based on using it for combat weak as hell.

[@Gafizal1]

It's so weird to me that JC thinks that the way to get people to play druids, which he says are the least played class in 5e, is to weaken them to the point that, when they awaken in the morning, they should be immediately hospitalized because they are so utterly frail !

[@thestylemage2092]

Yeah a d8 fullcaster without worry about any secondary core stats is so frail, however did bards and warlocks survive all this time...

[@CaitSith87]

@@thestylemage2092 by not going into melee as the druid needs to do when he wants to use his new core feature to do slightly above cantrip damage which you can do from safety?

[@Zankyo137]

​@@thestylemage2092by blasting and insulting their enemy from 60 to 120 feet away

[@binolombardi]

Wildshape is turning into the monks stunning strike debacle. Hope they find a way to fix it without ruining the class like they did the monk.

[@grantgarbour]

Honestly, simplifying choices of animal stat blocks while maintaining the power to become any animal does do a lot to allow more people to play the class. My players are incredibly lazy and would NEVER play a druid because they wouldn't want to deal with finding all using all the different stat blocks for animals they can turn into. Also triple HP bars was incredibly broken let's be real

[@timjensen4320]

Reading the UA, I see almost no reason to ever wildshape. Your stats basically stay the same, except AC probably got worse and those that are changed aren't used for combat at all. Your cantrips likely out damage your beast forms for most of your career and your 1d8 hit dice means you won't last long in melee. If wild shape was one ability it would be fine but they tried to make it the defining class feature, so if it's bad then it makes the whole class bad.

[@Cookie-lw6ds]

Uh, max 13 AC wildshape at level 1 means AC can go down without hit points going up (since they are shared), which makes it tough to justify using wild shape at all. The moon druid damage has decent scaling at higher levels though, which is a huge improvement (if you can survive with 15 AC) Also, losing all features in wild shape is a bit of an excessive trade off since it breaks feats.

[@Zankyo137]

And all other druid features as they are not wild shape

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

The bonus action is a 1+strength (you wisdom) so it's really not that good damage. Like a duel wielder with non magic handaxes. Will it outperform cantrips? A bit but not by much. And you have to use your normal form druid forms strength if you're in your swim or fly forms since those forms don't let you use wisdom for strength! In those forms, the bonus action 1 damage attack with your dump stat is just throw away as a feature, which sucks because flying is still the best form!

[@galion1991]

I read the base class with the wild shape options and was SURE you guys were going to add some temp HP or something to the moon druid wild shape. Todd says towards the end there that this is really tanky - it's really not (though I think he was referring to the damage output? which isn't really what most people refer to as tanky). One of the best perks (if not the best) of 5e moon druid, is how much HP you can put down on the board, how much you can soak. Maybe that needed nerfing, but there's absolutely 0 added tankiness from your base form here. Your AC in the land/water forms caps out at 15, which you can probably outdo quite easily in your base form if you have a shield and decent dex, not to mention once you get access to +1/2/3 armor/shields. So basically, compared to your base druid form, even the moon druid wild shape is LESS tanky. This is the biggest problem with this version. It feels like you guys failed to understand how people play the moon druid, what its party role and identity is - a druid that can transform into fearsome beasts that can take a bunch of punishment and still stay up. Secondary to that, or primary for some players, is the special abilities you got with some of the beast stat blocks. That feels mostly gone now. I know this sort of comment should go in the playtest survey, but I can already tell without any playtesting that this is what I'll be writing when the survey comes up. There should be a way to streamline wildshape, and moon druid in particular, without losing so much of its identity.

[@Sanglant4342]

I agree, maybe a simple fix like when you expend a use of wildshape you gain temp hp equal to 5 * Druid level. And extra 100HP at level 20 isn't OP with a max AC of 15.

[@___i3ambi126]

Also, all race and class features dont work with the ua wild shape. This means a wild shape focused druid cant multiclass, use skill proficiencies, or use feats.

[@galion1991]

@@___i3ambi126 really not sure how you came to any of these conclusions

[@___i3ambi126]

@@galion1991 You dont get where I found that features dont work with wild shape? Or why that means a druid that wild shapes in combat cant really use the options mentioned?

[@galion1991]

@@___i3ambi126 where did you find it Edit: I think I found what you might have been referring to: "...You retain your personality, memories, ability to speak, and Wild Shape. You lose access to all your other features,such as the ability to cast spells..." This certainly needs clarification, but I think the intention here is that you can't cast spells or use the other 'channel nature' abilities. It would be super weird if this means you can't use feats. It kinda sounds like it breaks the barb+moon druid multiclass, which is a problem.

[@mtalve]

Do you want to lose access to most/all of your spells, magic items, class features and lower your AC in exchange for maybe a minor increase in damage? Sounds like a deal and a half ^^. Thematically new whildshape sounds awesome. In practice I will be sad to lose all the cool quircky utility there used to be available. As someone whose most played class by far has been druid, because I enjoy the endless pool of options it offers, I'm suddenly WAY less excited about the class in general.

[@XxBiGuyx]

Thematically it doesn’t sound good at all. 😂

[@TheChoujinVirus]

@@XxBiGuyx it's a fair trade. Kinda busted if a Druid could turn themselves into an Allosaurus and somehow not only can bite but cast wildfire at the same time

[@apoclaydon]

i feel that this is a real big nerf to the druid. the fact that no longer getting the hp pool and loosing the ability to use other class,race or feats features while while shapped is a big weakening

[@hawkname1234]

It IS a big nerf. But Wildshape was WILDLY overpowered at low levels before, and in a fiddly way.

[@sortehuse]

I don't think you should think of it as a nerf - at least not yet. There are some new ideas, that need to be playtested. If the playtest show that the new form are too weak then they could be stronger in the final version. I really like some one the new idea, especially that the scale with your level. What I really want from the Moon Druid is that the Combat WIld shape will be somewhat weaker at low level, but stronger later in the game.

[@valentinrafael9201]

You always get darkvision Your DEX/STR = WIS You always have your HP ( which means Tough feat applies or other modifiers ) You can make US as a BA You can always speak now ADV on ALL Perception checks You choose an elemental resistance as a moon druid at lvl 6 and do dmg based onthat element You get an improved divine smite kind of feat at lvl 10 These are all improvements ( and there are more ) for both combat / RP and general QoL

[@Argosodyssey]

@@hawkname1234 In Health and Damage, most definitely. But the loss of class/race/feats in wildshape makes every playthrough prioritizing wildshape the same regardless of how you build your character since your features don't carry over. Also, it cuts out all the exploration/scouting/infiltration gameplay druid use to have supported mechanically through niche animal characteristics like keen smell and spider climb - or even just the tiny size which now isn't possible until 11th level

[@zebaklongfang9344]

@@valentinrafael9201 unles they buff abjuration for the moon druid (alas, only for them), with you dropping items and with ac 10+wis, you are capped at ac 15, at lvl 8 (or lvl 4 if you get a starting feat)... unless the dm override the item rule to allow a magical collar.... I could say barding too but alas you loose all features so nope for that too.. and yes, your hp now benefits any bonuses you have, yet, since it is worded as it is, it is a single pile and not an extra pool... thus, while it is a playtest and anything and everything can change, it is a huge nerf imo.

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

The wild shape functionally lowers your ac (13-15 10+wis to 15-17 12+2+dex) takes your spell casting changes sizes to only stuff that is a player option and gives you... a one handed martial equivalent weapon that uses your primary same as shilelegh? Also feats don't work no other benefits either not even a buffer of hp Why not just make it at will and have druid be a stance class? It doesn't feel like wild shape was balanced to be a resource since it mechanically does next to nothing and it already costs your ac just to move a bit faster and have multi attack. Like I get the idea of polymorphism is dope on a druid thematically but what is even *useful* about wildshape mechanically? I don't think the designers can answer that question. Since you called moon druid tanky even though your ac goes down and you don't get any defensive benefits whatsoever compared to just being a druid. You can't turn to tiny creatures for utility like cats, and the options you have in wild shape are only barely competitive with cantrips. It double hurts that *literally every single* class feature after first improves wild shape but none of them make being in wildshape do anything useful until you can fly and be tiny 1 and *9* levels later than you previously could. And being tiny is on a 10 min time limit now? Why is the utility option on a time limit when the combat option lasts 5 and a half straight hours? Also I already have a familiar! Being tiny isn't actually a very major buff, why is this on level 11, a level normally associated with large jumps in power. Oh you also lose all feats and profeciencies and the benefits of feats and magic items! Guess you get dark vision if you didn't already have that (You did, lets be real) and keen senses to help pat your back that you aren't profecient+guidance on your perception checks like every self-respecting druid in onednd should be doing instead. Seriously what good does wildshape do? Does it offer any benefits to use over not using? Am i just weaker for using this ability in nearly all applicable situations? Can a designer even answer that question? because it looks like it doesn't do anything but take up literally every class feature in the druid entry besides healing blossom just to make you worse for using than if you didn't by progressively smaller margins

[@Toxie2725]

They've literally made wildshape nearly useless.

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

@@Toxie2725less than useless actively detrimental in nearly all situations

[@DrDontDie]

For clarification. The new wild shape says to "continue using your health and hit dice" would that mean that you no longer return from wild shape with the hitpoints you had when you cast it ?

[@georgehancock652]

Yep and you now use your own constitution modifier, instead of that of the form.

[@skippy9273]

My question is, do feats like tough still apply so your ripped druid can get better survivability?

[@matthewgordon3281]

@@skippy9273 I would assume yes, as you use your HP.

[@georgehancock652]

@@skippy9273 yeah without kuktickassing barbarian it looks like Druid tank is out a bit.

[@___i3ambi126]

​@@skippy9273 No. No class features apply to this ua wild shape

[@odditiescollector4540]

main issue i see with this is the bestial attack stats at the same as if i cast shillelagh and the AC isnt much higher than my default no shifted AC (i play lizardfolk of the moon) so im less incentivized to shift especially since my hp is going to remain the same

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

Your AC will be lower, even if you weren't a lizard folk. If you use a shield and wear studded leather, you're ac should be 15 at the lowest unless you dumped dex. A druid in wildshapes ac will be 15 at the highest by level 8 at the earliest. Your ac goes down in wildshape.

[@geehump]

All of the joy my players have gotten out of being a druid have come entirely from getting to turn into beasts that suit the situation. Wild Shape was the druid's swiss army knife as much as spellcasting, and now it's not. These genericized beasts made sense for the ranger, who only got to pick one and who was going to have that one beast for their entire adventure, and needed that creature to be strong enough to survive. The druid goes between these forms often. You're telling me that whether I turn into a badger or a brown bear, my stats are the same? A minnow and a great white? A dove and an eagle? It's like you took away hundreds of spells, and replaced them with "damaging spell," "healing spell," and "control spell." How thoroughly unflavorful and restrictive. These changes do not suit the fantasy of the shape shifting druid.

[@Dusterr23]

As a Druid fanatic and a Moon Druid main, I would never play this version of the class. If I did, I would probably die the moment I tried to use this Wildshape in melee with no AC and my own HP. Other classes looked at Moon Druid hp pools and thought "That's unbalanced, that's so unfair", but if you actually play one you realize your 11-14 AC makes those HP disappear in a hurry and was the balancing factor for the low AC. Your paladin tanks with his plate armor and shield, I tank with a massive hp pool that disappears quickly. Losing elemental form is the cherry on top of the trash cake. This character is god awful at tier 3 play. Moon Druids needed a tweak to the power curve to make it a little less spikey at level 2 and 10 but more throughout all levels and honestly needed a decent boost around level 7 and 14 but instead just made useless at all levels. Some of the concepts in here are cool (moving between forms, channel nature, elementally infuse wildshape), but the execution is so bad. Lots of survey feedback incoming.

[@sharmelfattakhov5041]

We can all agree that moon druid is broken on tier 1, still strong on tier 2 and not a lot of people bother playing to tier 3 to feel the difference, but honestly, it was not the only option. Both star and wildfire druids were very solid and had a creative spin on wildshape while shepherd doubled down on another iconic feature of the class. And even basic wildshape had its own flavour. At this point druid was a class that, while having a bit problematic spellist, compensated for it with fairly powerful and interesting subclass features - honestly, it was a contender for my favourite class in the game. Now it is basically a spellcaster without class features because those are worthless - unless, of course, you want to have a melee option that is comparable to a lesser monk.

[@Rafikichu]

This is the first One D&D UA I've been unhappy about. The ability to use the animal kingdom as a toolbox is THE REASON I play druid. "Hey, hold this rope for me while I repel down the cliffside." "Of course. The mountaingoat is sure-footed and has advantage on strength checks to hold on and stay put." "It's pitch dark/the enemy has turned invisible." "I'll use the bat's echolocation ability to search!" Losing all of that is so tragic. I understand the loss of temp HP because it was OP, but this is too much.

[@disrespecfulape4935]

Let me give up all my casting to go hit them with shillelagh is basically the new wildshape

[@andrewmcmillan229]

I like the stat blocks but using your own hit points with a max AC of 15 means the wildshapes are too squishy to be useful at high level IMO.

[@hoid9407]

And you have to merge or drop your magic items, no more wearing them. So you can't buff your animal form at all at mid to late game while everyone else is using items to do so

[@valentinrafael9201]

You can cast shield though from lvl 3 as a moon druid

[@Hey-Its-Dingo]

@@hoid9407 RAI you couldn't actually do that in 5e either. The RAW just made it so that could be exploited.

[@hoid9407]

@@Hey-Its-Dingo I mean I don't know your source on that, but it literally says you can continue wearing items in the 2014 PHB. As a forever DM I always want my players to find ways to play to their class strengths, and I feel like a circle of the moon druid whose whole deal is wild shaping should get stuff that boosts their wild shapes, the same way an assassin rogue can get things that make them sneakier or modify their damage output, or a sorcerer can use certain focuses and items to enhance their metamagic

[@Hey-Its-Dingo]

@@hoid9407 Probably just my own misreading of it, my bad. Never played a Druid.

[@skeleton-mage]

Why does it matter if it's the least played class? There are plenty of simple classes for new players. Complexity is where all the excitement lies for me. I'm dreading what they're gonna do to wizard.

[@psyberian]

So managing to both simplify and complicate druids at the same time. That takes a special kind of fuckery skill.

[@WarpedLord]

Pretty sure if they wanted to change the fact that Druids are the least-played class that nerfing the hell out of wildshape wasn't the way to go with this...

[@vampdan]

The data they have indicates otherwise. Not everyone plays like you.

[@WarpedLord]

@@vampdan What are you talking about?!? What 'data'? Crawford said in the video that Druids are the least played class... and wildshape is OBJECTIVELY weaker in its current state in the playtest that in its current form (hence... 'nerfed'). Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing here?

[@Feridire]

@@vampdan What are you smoking, I need to get myself some of that. Druids have been the least played class of 5e in every released data we have received. Then with the new UA the druid gets nerfed in Damage, HP, and Utility.

[@bornthisway63]

Taking the temp HP away from the Wildshape is crazy. I almost certainty wouldn't have picked to play a druid without it. Why would I wildshape at all? I can't cast spells & I don't get the temp HP. I just don't see the point

[@Bro490]

Old wild shape was like several different flavors of completely made 9" cakes. carrot, red velvet, chocolate, marble, white, yellow etc. all fully decorated in dozens of different frostings. new wild shape is a yellow cupcake that you give us 3 frosting choices with with 5 colors of sprinkles. Sure, you can customize, but its still just a yellow cupcake.

[@Toxie2725]

Utterly true.

[@davidgomes4408]

🤔 Pity no one could ever find the store selling all those several different flavor. They got lost on the way, gave up, and settled for non-yellow cupcakes.

[@MrBaldable]

"We have a pretty beefy druid" Okay, let's both be 20th level, you take this version of Moon Druid, I'll take the current version and have a mock battle, then we can discuss what "beefy" means.

[@captainpandabear1422]

Todd just seems to be a sort of hype man for whatever the new playtest is, to the point of being outright dishonest. No one could read this new Druid and call it beefy.

[@CelticCubby]

Druids are my favorite class to play. I am not comfortable with them taking away my options with my wild shapes, finding the right animal stat block for the situation is half the fun. Also the main reason to play circle of the moon is to turn into elementals. This feels like you had someone who didn't like playing druids take the lead on it.

[@Toxie2725]

I agree with you completely. Having the elementals was FUN. The new wild shaoe looks liem ot was written for 10 year olds to play.

[@CaitSith87]

@@Toxie2725 that is what they try to do. They also said that in the first videos. They concentrate on new players. Optimizers and veterans are not important. Thats not snide that is a rephrase of what they said. And also explains all this changes.

[@Toxie2725]

@@CaitSith87 It does, and I dont disagree with that assessment. However, that doesn't make the system better, as they continually race to an easier and simpler system. 5e already suffers from a lack of heroic-ness.

[@CaitSith87]

@@Toxie2725 it does not. I fear it could become pretty boring especially if you like to play around with optimatisation.

[@Toxie2725]

@@CaitSith87 I agree, it makes wild shape extremely bland and uninteresting.

[@gaminreasons8941]

You can see a clear distinction between the people who have already read the Unearthed Arcana and the ones who haven't in these comments.

[@TaranTatsuuchi]

On first read through, I noted it was a nerf... As my friend and I were discussing it, we noticed how horrible it is. The initial read didn't seem too bad, we had to dig down into the specifics to see the full extent of the change.

[@clarkside4493]

They want to address new player confusion with the druid. That's fine! I'm willing to work with that. Working within this version of Wild Shape, can we add attack riders that mimic animal attacks? Like, you pick "pounce" as an option so you can _act_ like a tiger or a velociraptor instead of being one in name only. You pick "constrict" and you're a bear or python or gorilla. You pick "trample" and you're an elephant, horse, or sauropod dinosaur. Maybe in a "Warlock's Invocation" format? This might be enough to keep it from being too generic while still being easy for newbies. ADDITIONALLY, we need some form of HP barrier. This is NOT tanky enough to stand in melee for long (even with the healing spells while in Wild Shape). Can it at least mimic the Abjuration Wizard's HP barrier or get a lump of temporary hit points or SOMETHING?

[@James-ht6fd]

This^^^

[@mcparks1968]

For the Druid, basically they are saying, the Druid is the least used class. Solution: Make it far worse so even fewer players will use it. I occasionally fill out the surveys. I will ABSOLUTELY be completing this survey and will definitely be giving my opinion on you giving a big fat middle finger to the entire Druid class!!!

[@Zalamancer]

The Druid has always been my favorite class. I like the standardization of wild shape, and the new channel nature is great. Overall though, they seem to have been nerfed heavily through no longer granting extra hp in wild shape. This makes them lose some much of their tankiness. It may be more balanced, but I think we need more buffs to help with their utility. The moon druid loses so much value from the lack of bonus given in wild shape, especially as elementals. I like the core class changes, but the fact that you always use the same HP pool is such a heavy blow to the combat utility of wild shape

[@SSL_2004]

The homogenization of Wild Shape is terrible. It removes literally all of the utility. A Dire Wolf is going to play exactly the same as a freaking Poodle. You can't turn into a cat to scout out areas better, You can't turn into a mouse to squeeze into a hole and get behind a locked door (that is until you reach Level _ELEVEN_ , because apparently turning into a chipmunk requires that you slay a few dragons first), It makes the entire feature utterly uninteresting. I like the Channel Nature idea, and I like the Alternating Forms idea, every other change they made is atrocious.

[@greyson6647]

​@SSL2004 I do agree you should unlock smaller creatures much earlier, but I disagree on the Poodle/Dire wolf playing the same being a negative. The fact that old wildshape has you rooting through stat blocks and ultimately has barely any viable options means that a Druid who wants to play a big cat as their wild shape has an objectively worse option than someone who wants to play a bear. Standardization with stat blocks just gives you the option to choose an archetype of animal and simply choose how you want it to look, as well as simplifying it for new players. I don't think these new stat blocks are perfect, but it is an improvement and I like that your casting modifier is used Edit: To be fair though, more options in the stat block to customize more would be welcome

[@Sanglant4342]

@@SSL_2004 I don't think he mentions how in Animal of the Land your Str and Dex get replaced by your Wis stat so a 20 Wisdom Druid in Animal of the land form also has a 20 Str and 20 Dex, which opens some cool stuff with your grapple DC with the free unarmed strike as a moon druid being 8 + Wis + PB which as a level 5 druid could be 8 + 5 + 3 = 16 which is really good. Not to mention your stealth skill and athletic skill can be good too. Shapeshift into a monkey with a dex of 20 and you can pick pocket and stealth and so much cool stuff with a + Wis Mod. Means a druid who dumps everything into wis can still do cool shit while shape shifted more then they could as normal.

[@SSL_2004]

@@greyson6647 AN easy solution to this would just be to keep the three stat blocks they have, but make it abundantly clear that they are OPTIONS for Druids, and that if they WANT to, they can just use the stat block of the creature they choose. This would make it easier for new Druids without murdering all creativity like it is now. Alternatively they could just have a "Beasts Known" system akin to "Spells Known" to limit the amount that a player can choose from at any given time. Ala maybe you have a number of ¼ Creatures equal to your Level 1 Spell Slots, or it could just have its own system. Regardless though, this would limit the amount of immediate options at any given time. Players are already going to be sifting through tens of Spells with different and important effects straight from Level 1, sifting through the comparatively few Beasts would be fine.

[@deathpacito8702]

If any class in 5e needed heavy nerfs, it was the Moon Druid.

[@Gunslinger199]

Thank you for shot out, Jeremy.

[@Phiro00]

not a fan of the HP change in wildshape. it should add some kind of extra temporary HP. without extra HP theres no reason to wildshape in combat, even for a circle of the moon.

[@AwesomeWookiee]

It'd be great to get some customisation options as a higher level feature for the Wildshape.

[@MrMoggl]

Yeah… but if you had a cool DM he would always allow that kind of stuff during 5e. Druids basically get worse now

[@MrBaldable]

You do, you can choose to become a tiny creature from level 11... /s

[@AlphastreamRPG]

I would like to see a druid at any level of play be able to become a dog, a small fish that can swim across a moat, or a small bird that can fly up and look inside a window. That should really be possible earlier than mid and high levels.

[@DRAGHNALL]

This is a mixed bag, and at this time I don't like more than half of the changes as a druid main. This feels more nerf than buff.

[@billabonggolkpr]

Absolutely agree with you here

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

They needed the nerf but they don't need wildshape to be entirely useless despite being every single class feature

[@billabonggolkpr]

@@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar Why do they need the nerf? The druid isn't OP at all in current form.

[@alejandrosilva528]

@@billabonggolkpr Then you dont understand how strong is the druid compared to others class

[@billabonggolkpr]

@@alejandrosilva528 That is patently false. 1st of all that premise is going to be different no matter what depending on the game that's being run. Secondly, if you can't make an abjuration or Bladesinger, barbarian, paladin, fighter, or hell even cleric build that is as tanky then you're doing something wrong or perhaps you're a purist that doesn't believe in multiclassing. Of course even then I'd think I could make something as tanky. And if you say it's because of the magical abilities combined with tanking I'd submit to you that even a straight cleric build is as if not more powerful. People seem to forget currently a druid can't cast in wild shape. So you're either spells or tank. A cleric properly built can do both at the same time.

[@terrik7411]

Removing any extra hp from the druid wildshape negates the entire thing. You basically gave a caster, with caster hp, a much weaker rage, no way to get in and out of melee to stay alive with such low health like monk. In fact you turned wildshaped druids into worse monks. WIldshape wont survive melee and cant cast spells. The utility has been gutted by moving becoming tiny to level 11th level. What is the point of wildshaping?

[@xerocloud3849]

Please make sure that you put this In the play test review and that's where they're going to be looking for it

[@minibeyse]

Completely agree, please change it to, your wildshape gets a HP pool that equals your Max HP, with the turning back rules of 5e... Also the using extra features interaction needs to be compensated by actually making you a acceptable martial (including the hp pool required to do it)

[@Krawler14]

They literally have said Nothing about the hit points on these stat blocks... So... Ur jumping the gun and purely speculating. Chill out

[@minibeyse]

​@@Krawler14it says: you continue to use your hitpoints and hit dice. It could indeed mean you get your druid max HP as a bonus. But this does not fit with the sentence that you turn back when you are incapacitated or when you die. Because dying used to be 'turning back' not 'dying'

[@michaeltucker7129]

It's not removing the extra HP. You're getting a set stat block instead of picking one from the monster manual. This is a great change.

[@anthonycook2366]

these changes make this a really weird class now, its a full caster with no feats that synergies with being a caster with all of their feats attached to an ability that actually prevents you from casting without much benefit

[@pathosnomos2757]

HP for wild shapes needs to scale with level or have a temp HP buff going in specifically for subclasses that rely on wild shapes. Moon Druid sub-class is designed to be that front line roll. If they are being downed too quick, their main class feature is all but non-existent. Lastly, making tiny transformations until 11th level to unlock severely nerfs druids ability as infiltrators. You simplified the process but at the cost of several aspects of this class imo. Will be writing the same in the survey.

[@muddlewait8844]

If they’re doing this, I wonder if they’re going to nerf familiars, too.

[@pathosnomos2757]

@@muddlewait8844 If you look toward the in they give the spell text for Find Familiar. 100% did.

[@FredSEd-x9d]

Quick thoughts. Not having a separate pool of hit points while wild shaped is a serious Nerf. Now it is true at lower levels the old wild shape was OP. Maybe a compromise. Wild shaped has 10 temp hit points + 2 / druid level. This would let the druid while wild shaped have similar hit points as a marshall class, but not overshadow the marshall classes. Also at some point, maybe 6th level the wild shaped attacks should be magical. My 2 copper pieces worth of advice.

[@unusuallycloudy]

The thing is, they shouldn't have as much HP or tanking capabilities as a martial. The transition from a tank to a bestial fighter is a warranted change. Sure they might not do as much damage or be as durable as a martial, but they'll have similar longevity for long adventuring days as well retaining some of the most utility in the game.

[@CaitSith87]

@@unusuallycloudy but why would you even shape change? Just get a free damage cantrip and you will deliver about the same damage from secure distance while keeping your concentration safe?

[@BobHerzog1962]

My problem is not so much the extra HP. Many people already found nice homebrew rules to adress that issue (though if one takes them away entierly the shapes need better defences in particular AC). The real problem is that they took most special animal abilities by going template.

[@LilBig780]

I hate that they keep making these generic stat block, saying it gives you the freedom to be what you want. No it doesn’t it’s the illusion of choice, flavor is already free idk why they want to remove the utility aspect of wildshape in favor of a weaker combat alternative. I get that Druid is complex class and not very beginner friendly, but I think that is not a bad thing, it’s ok to have classes that have more nuance, also it a great way to learn how to dm by familiarizing yourself with how monster stat blocks work.

[@wadeall8998]

I think there are some good things but I prefer the wild shape we have now it is more flexible in my opinion.

[@lalalachacha248]

I really, really dislike the wild shape changes. It makes no sense that a bat and a pteranodon would have the exact same statistics. They’re not giving us more freedom with our wild shape, they’re limiting it to three options with different cosmetics.

[@James-ht6fd]

I don’t mind beefy bats, I do mind bats that can’t echolocate and that take level 11 to turn into

[@captainpandabear1422]

"Really cool new things" I predict, but haven't watched beyond the opening, what this really means is "HUGE NERFS"

[@raylathebrave]

Tbh the new druid class is such a loss of flavor, the being able to wild shape into a tiny creature only at 11th level or above it's so so stupid. Also maintaining your hit points while in wild shape defeat the purpose of the feature to be used in combat aside for very specific instances. And making it just a simple stats sheet removes every type of cool utility it had before. Now wild shape is just a fancy "Now you can hit harder!!" on a spell caster and MID LINER. Why would I want to go and hit stuff if most other melee classes can do it way better than me? While still loosing my actual hit points while in wild shape?? What it's the point of all this? Until you get higher level this is pointless and the thing the designers don't seem to get is that, most campaigns end before hitting level 8, have fun playing a druid that way.

[@galion1991]

Question for clarification: Quick Attack. You can use Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action. I'm guessing this applies to the "Beastial Strike"? If so, it might be helpful to clarify in the actual text. People could go to the definition of "Unarmed Strike" in the rules glossary, but even then I wasn't 100% sure it applies to Beastial Strike.

[@johnlines9864]

It doesn't. Bestial strike is wisdom based and not an unarmed strike. Unarmed strike is strength based attack that uses unarmed strike damage. It's a totally useless ability for a druid of any subclass.

[@adammasters684]

​​​​​@@johnlines9864 in one DND unarmed strike includes grapples and shoves so it's not useless just not really a damage feature, I personally feel they should have renamed it to avoid giving the wrong impression perhaps something like quick maneuver

[@sitnamkrad]

Did they for one single moment stop to think that maybe those who do play druids, are doing so specifically for the complexity and creativity that comes with all the different animal stat blocks?

[@archiesto4444]

I am a forever druid.. I love the druid class and at its core it is the best, imho. Some of what you are suggesting sounds nice, but OMG you are breaking so much more. You pick a specific wild shape BECAUSE it can do different things from other things. You can turn into a spider if you need to climb, you turn into a wolf if you want pack tactics. You think you are making it better by giving a generic stat block, then 'beefing it up' at later levels? no! If you take away being able to be a spider at level 2 you break druid. If you take away pack tactics at level 3 you break druid. You take away the fact that as I wild shape I get the hit points and ALL the abilities of that creature I change into... you break druid. You want to enhance wild shape great, enhance it. Only being able to turn into low level creatures stifles the wild shape. I, honestly, don't use my wild shape for changing shapes much because I need it for my wildfire druid and because it only allows you to turn into a CR2 creature at high levels. FIX THAT and now you can fix druid. Take away the buff in HP take away the special abilities you get depending on the creature you pick... that helps no one. Some of this sounds nice, but dang I am pretty bummed over all - and I promise you, no one has played a druid more than I have.

[@TonyRobetson]

i was worried that you were going to go the stat block route. that is incredibly disappointing. i love the druid because it's complex. i like all the various beasts for their random abilities like tremorsense or spider-climb. i liked wildshape for it's utility a lot more than combat ability. this places way more focus on combat and removes most of the utility. .like you cant turn tiny until 11th level? even the combat stuff isnt great, like no grappling/restraining/knocking prone? sorry i dont want this at all, it's basically a cleric with a channel divinity that lets them do extra damage

[@lucienwolfswift]

The new Druid looks like a miss to me. I think it needs to go back to the drawing board. I get wanting to simplify things, but too much was taken from Druids. Especially moon druids. I personally never found it too hard to find monster stats online or borrow a book from someone during gameplay. Not to mention DnD Beyond is now a thing. I was excited watching the video, that excitement faded after I read the new druid.

[@lukemcfarlane8037]

I 100% agree with you. I personally hate this new version of the Druid, and it has sucked out all my enthusiasm to play One D&D now.

[@ryuzakidestiny]

Druid is my favourite class (my first and yet PC is a circle of the moon druid) and I´m very disappointed with the normal wildshape (loss the extra HP is huge and the non existent burrow movement) and the elemental wildshape and strike of the subclass (the elemental stat block is better that "the damage and look flavor") majority. The bad things are concret and small but importance for me and I definitely put them in the survey.

[@thexlonewolf671]

Condensing all the various beasts into three stat blocks is a good quality of life change, but losing access to the various features of the beasts, such as the wolf's pack tactics, not to mention the bigger HP pools and AC of some creatures like bears, at least at early levels, is a REALLY hard pill to swallow, even as someone who's never played Druid.

[@muriomoira]

rangers should also have access to channel nature since they're to druids what paladins are to clerics, you could even put the New non concentration hunter's Mark in it as the rangers own way of channeling nature (like taking aspects of predators to empower themselves)

[@RobWeld57]

Channel Nature for Rangers would be great! You could tie it to classes or the new Hunter’s Mark without concentration. I like how the 1 D&D started with the Ranger but it should be updated as a between Paladin and Druid. So comments on the survey of these should directly influence benefits to Rangers. At 5th level Paladins get their Faithful Steed and I wish Rangers would get a companion or something similar.

[@ReadingDave]

Primordial senses could be a good invoke nature thing. There have been allot of nature semicasters. Totem barbarians, warders, seekers, etc. It might be nice if the ranger isn't the catch all of the nature semicasters.

[@muriomoira]

@@captainrelyk i can see where you're coming from, but all rangers share spells related to nature, I agree that not every ranger should be heavily tied to just nature phenomenom, but on the other hand, its what diferentiates them from rogues and fighters in a sense (in my point of view, of course). Also, as I mentioned, they could even relate to nature in a more conceptual way then a literal, like being more about infusing yourself with a predator's sense (like hunter's Mark)

[@muriomoira]

@@RobWeld57 I share the feeling, I've always thought it was kinda weird how rangers dont get a steed lol

[@muriomoira]

@@ReadingDave Yeah I can totally see this! Rangers having a channel nature more related to empowering their Senses and martial prowess with aspects of nature would really diferentiate them from druid's channel nature

[@Handle1023]

I don’t even care that this version of Wild Shape may be more balanced. It feels like the Druid has lost its soul. Sure, there may be optimal shapes in combat, and the Beasts symbolize various animals, but that doesn’t always matter to the player. The choice to transform into a wolf and take advantage of pack tactics, snakes for poison, panthers for pouncing, badgers for burrowing, etc. All that is gone. Seeing tiny creatures delayed so long doesn’t help either, with the loss of utility. The choice may narrow down the publication of animal stat blocks, but I think it really harms the heart of the class.

[@roronoa1243]

Hot take: I wish they had just lopped off wildshape entirely and only given it to the moon druid

[@PiroMunkie]

This initial change to Wild Shape is incredibly lacking with nothing to make up for what was lost. Also the Game Designers really need to get away from features that simultaneously grant you resistance to a type of damage while also letting you deal that kind of damage. Creatures that deal primarily one kind of elemental damage are often resistant or immune to that damage type. The Moon Druid can opt _not_ to take the elemental damage, but they still have nothing making their attacks magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance to non-magical damage. So unless something is intrinsically changing about monster resistances, Druids lost _a lot_ with these changes.

[@pitviper6652]

I need some clarification for druid wildshape in the new UA. The way it reads it sounds like you only have your hit point pool. You don’t gain new hit points. AIW?

[@DerekHartley]

That is correct.

[@SSL_2004]

Really "bringing out the best in what people love about the druid" by completely removing the main reason people play them aren't we?

[@DerekHartley]

Why have aquatic and flying wild shapes been pushed back even further? As an Owlin it feels utterly crippling to have to wait for level 8 to be able to wild shape into a flying creature, but if we'd been on this version it'd be level NINE.

[@casualdot1608]

I feel that these changes are in fact overall nerfs, and I am okay with that. In my experience, Moon Druids has been such an overwhelmingly powerful subclass especially in the earlier levels such as 2-6. Effectively gaining multi-attack, and more total HP than 2-3 average 2nd level characters combined, through over tuned CR 1 creatures such as the Bear stat blocks and such. That being said, I do feel like they need a little buffer of Temp HP going into the Moon Druid wild shapes to make it more worthwhile, perhaps also increasing the base AC of the shapes to 12 plus your wisdom modifier instead of 10. This Druid is far from perfect, but a step in the right direction that can be improved in minor ways through specialized feats that fill the pounce, knockdown, or other animalistic tactics, emphasizing your druid growing in experience with certain animals they shift into instead of having all of that strength and knowledge from level 2. Lastly, I am big fan of allowing Moon Druids to cast healing spells while shifted at level 3 makes it way more streamlined and shifts the frontline druid into a supportive melee caster!

[@Bloodxy911]

100% agree

[@Dusterr23]

Clearly you don't play druid and haven't seen them at mid or high tier play. Smoothing out the power curve is one thing, completely gutting the class as they've done here is so bad.

[@casualdot1608]

​@@Dusterr23 Ah yes you are one of those people who thinks Druids = Moon Druids, because WotC nerfing Circle of the Moon is "completely gutting the class". I was going to dig deeper, but clearly you aren't worth it and haven't seen them at mid or high tier play.

[@Dusterr23]

@@casualdot1608 I love all druid subclasses and have played most of them at mid and land at high level. Do you think a land druid benefits from most of their features now being tied to wild shape that they'll never use?

[@Kiwi9552]

An idea after letting the wilsh shape changes sink in for a day: Have wildshape behave more like spells in a way that you have a list of templates to choose from outside of the feature, that can easily be expanded in future books. This would offer the better balance, accessibility and seperation from dm materials of the new temlates, without loosing as much of the fun part of wild shapes. Creatures are just to diverse to be summarised in these few stat blocks and many can't be properly represented by them. The cost would be that there would be more templates to develop and balance. Compared to the feature list to choose from that many suggested this would allow for slightly more things, like for example slower creatures, who get something as a benefit in return.

[@ChristinaStarlight]

I love the healing flower idea ^^. But I really hope they keep some of the willdshape's utility, like becoming a mount, a stealthy spy spider or a raven that can make all kinds of noises. I am happy that you are not forced to be a specific animal. But I hope they keep some complexity.

[@prototypedenNIS]

WOTC: druids are too complex and players need to go delving into other books to find their wild shape options. Me: yes, can you release a companion booklet or cards that include all of these in one place so it can be easily accessed? I will gladly pay for this. WOTC: ... So we're getting rid of all of them. Me: 🤦

[@VitorJTekkRodrigues]

Also adding that's a thing they've already did on Xanathar's

[@zacharywiesel900]

Am I reading the druid wildshape stat blocks that you wont be now having a HP padding from wildshape? I am fine with it, but its very much a nerf right?

[@alejandrogundin7790]

The Wild shape Nerf is massive. I don't like the new Wild shape.

[@braklinath]

this sentiment about avoiding the "mother may I" behaviour, aka, not needing monster manual for druid, is the main reason why I think the Artificer is ultimately more difficult to deal with and would be the reason why it won't be included in the PHB - you really can't have an artificer without magic items and their rules, which would be primarily found in the DMG.

[@chaserude1]

My updated take on this would be to just use 1 template but then have a list of features you could pick that would have level requirements. Swim speed (4th), Multi-attack (5th), Fly speed (8th). The list could have all the animal features like Pounce, Spider Climb, Echolocation, etc. and might include a suggestion of what kind of animal would have that trait to help visualize your form. Instead of new templates for Wild Shape improvements, you would just be able to pick more features. A second idea I'm considering is allowing the Druid to spend HD to heal when they Wild Shape.

[@James-ht6fd]

Oh that’s true, moon Druid can’t spell sack for heals anymore now

[@chaserude1]

@James that's not quite true. They can cast Abjuration spells in wild shape, and i think they changed some healing spells to Abjuration.

[@Zr0din]

So no more level 3 pass withouth trace and become a spider and ride on the Rogue. I have to do that at much higher level? Or just High level? I would like to ask about the utility features of some animals, like octopus arms, tracking by smell, burrowing through a dig speed, moving thorugh a climb speed, grappling as a Constrictor Snake, Wolf Pact Tactics, Poison attack options from Snakes... I was expecting a Nerf for Moon Druids but I wasn't expecting this to hit ALL the druids. I don't really want POWER from my Druid, I want Flexibility!

[@sethketa]

The nerf to wild shape appears to make druids the absolute worst melee class. I can't think of a single situation in which it'd be beneficial to actually wild shape over just staying in your caster form. Especially if you have any magical equipment whatsoever, which would be rendered inert or useless while wild shaped. Your durability is capped while wild shaped. Not so in caster form.

[@docc7545]

So now they have decided to take the mechanical aspect of Druids and dump that for roleplaying options that won’t matter in combat. Welcome back to the land of casters druids.

[@crushcommando8637]

So wild shape is considered pretty weak unless ur moon druid, so the solution is to...make it even worse? What? I'd almost be upset we also lose infinite wildshapes at lvl 20, but these are so bad who'd care anyway?

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

"You decide what the wildshape looks like" read "We sell you cosmetic MTX on D&D VTT to customize your wild shape" I don't mind getting rid of the extra hp and having to tie the form to actual Beasts in the Monster Manual (and specifically ones you've seen). But it's absolutely NOT an enhancement of flavor and personality that my druid's forms are identical in FUNCTION to every single other druid's forms. The only difference being I say "Mine looks like a bear" and they say "Mine looks like a snake" but we are effectively identical. These designers should look to how Pathfinder 2e does Familiar abilities as a means to add customization to Druid Wild Shape forms. Create a list of abilities, druids at level X gain Y many abilities to choose to slot into their wild shape form every morning increasing at levels A, B, C and with Moon Druid you add additional selections. So just for arbitrary numbers let's say at level 1 you get to choose 2 abilities for your "Land Form". The list of abilities could include a variety of basic bonuses and flavor things perhaps taken from actual animal statblocks and also have level restrictions on them so you can't choose the T Rex jaws at level 1. But you could choose the ability to Grapple with your attack or maybe at level 3 you could choose the Giant Frog's swallow. They could also be things like the Relentless Charge ability or the ability to jump high. Or different senses that different animals have that way you don't just give the animal form Darkvision by default but it becomes an ability you slot in, ditto multi attack. Maybe there are slot in abilities that grant enhanced spellcasting for druids that want to be in a shapeshifted form while doing the tree wizard thing. How they have it now is so bland, so vanilla, so milquetoast and obviously ONLY concerned with making it so they can sell MTX wildshape skins to players on their VTT that it is straight up offensive they don't think we can see that.

[@seshmorsis9365]

I am still early in vid but I have been saying druids needed to run their powers more like the cleric channel divinity feature to balance better

[@Rosculus]

As someone who tends to default to playing a Moon Druid in my campaigns, I'm distraught over these changes. Every single thing that made the Moon Druid unique and interesting for me to play and build characters around has been removed in this playtest. From now on, I will never choose to play my favorite class again if the DM insists on running this version of it. An optimized Moon Druid built using this new playtest never casts Wild Shape.

[@lightwings9042]

Honestly, it is kind of sad that now you trasnform into a generic version of a beast, i love to go into the Monster Manual and discover what u can do with that. Also, a very important thing: Moon druids are suposed to be the quintessencial wild shapers, one with the nature and also tanks. Now you just lost the ability to become ELEMENTALS (the "one with nature" feature) nor do u get temp hp to protect you. Id really like to see at least options for elemental forms and some kind of feature to protect you as delve into melee combat. I love druids, but im kind of sad with this new version :( I know ur doing tour best dnd team, i trust you`ll find ways to improve the druid

[@niratcire]

I have played four druids(moon, shepherd, wildfire and dreams) and my groups know me as a "druid main." Wildshape for every non-moon druid is mainly utility while moon druid makes use of it for combat. This UA druid removed the utility for non-moon druids while similtaneously making it a poor combat choice for moon druids. I don't know why they thought this would make more people play the class but making smart decisions isn't something I associate with WotC lately.

[@johncostello4565]

What is the benefit to Wild Shape? It seems like I spend an action to decrease my AC and my damage and turn off my spells to… what exactly?

[@mojojojoplus2]

Eventually sometimes swim (but not fast). Maybe eventually fly (but also not fast), but also flyby, eventually. Attack twice, starting 5th level. So, before 5th level? No point really, just use shillelagh. Oh, and darkvision. Before 5th level, you can turn into a weaker version of yourself that can't cast spells with darkvision. After 5th? Um, if the party needs an easy to hit, squishy fighter that can do non magic damage (not even moon druids do magic damage in beast form now) sort of okay? But at 11th, you can sort of scout again as a tiny creature, for 10 minutes? What? I don't even think you can be rideable or carry others, RAW, you'd have your speed halved even as a "horse" if someone was riding you.

[@crouchingmarker]

The really glaring thing about this version of the druid is that it departs entirely from the current roles of the Druid, which makes it hard to just as 'better' or 'worse' than the old model. Bear tank is gone, tiny spy is level 11, and you can't burrow ever, whether you look like a badger or not. Also, everything has speed 40, so even without level capping climb at 5th level and pushing swim and fly back to 7 and 9 (from and 8,) the mobility aspect of wildshape is significantly restricted. Also, if you want to push the combat functions of wildshape to be the Moon Druid's particular thing, that's valid, but as it stands, the combat wildshape feature gives very little combat advantage. A wildshaped Moon Druid is a slightly more mobile healer without a cleric's AC. Even the bonus action attack is an unarmed strike instead of one of your bestial strikes. Not tying the class to a detailed knowledge of the monster manual is good, but the cost is a lot of the flexibility that attracts players to the Druid in the first place. The template approach isn't bad, but it needs a lot more work, whether that be more flexible templates, or some sort of druidic invocations approach allowing individual druids to focus on speed, power, durability or exotic attacks as their particular inclination goes.

[@lbaronXL]

I can't help but see that using wild shape is worse in almost every way than not using wild shape. and you lose so much utility. why would I ever get into melee with less AC than my druid form just to do less damage than for instance flaming sphere and produce flame at Teir 1. Also do I see wildshape doesn't ever do damage that can bypass magical resistance? I think its incredibly foolish to think so little of your player base that you think druid is played so little because its "complicated."

[@westeralex1]

"the druid is going to get more ways to use channel natures" *Literally only level 2 doesn't involve wild shape*

[@DVDMaster2009]

Not mentioned in the video is that druids keep the ability to speak while in wildshape!

[@jarydf]

Well that change alone is sure to get the druid players talking. LOL

[@muddlewait8844]

@@jarydf OOF

[@pitviper6652]

I’m hoping this is merely an oversight. My favorite druid/Ranger spell, Guardian of Nature is nowhere to be seen in UA. We established that just because something isn’t mention doesn’t mean it’s gone but I can not imagine where else this spell would be.

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

Guardian of nature is a spell from Xanathars guide to everything. only spells found in the PHB are listed here. Content introduced in supplements will be converted to the new system in due time.

[@georgehancock652]

Lots of early thoughts. I'm glad they still emphasise the elemental aspect of the druid. I agree with balancing wild shape and the changes to the elemental form, though I will miss its OPness. Not a fan of the forced flower description for the healing magic, though I do like the expansion to the healing kit (we need more fun healing spell mechanics). I will keep complaining that detect good and evil should be a primal magic spell, as druids and rangers should be able to sense fey and elementals. Not a big fan of how slow the flying wild shape is or the loss of burrow speed. 40ft fly speed is way too slow and defeats the whole point and advantage of flight (escape).

[@DudeCommando]

They should split Fey and Elementals from Detect Good and Evil and spin them off into a new spell, call it something like "Detect Friend or Foe" or something like that, and make that a primal spell.

[@georgehancock652]

@@DudeCommando that’s actually a potentially good solution and emphasises the primal role. Perhaps detect primal / primordial / natural / beings. Could apply to beasts/fey/elemental. Could also have them get a protection from version. While the divine casters just get aberrations/undead/fiends/celestials.

[@eponatwospirithorse4980]

I suspect that any cosmetic depictions ie what you referred to as "forced flower description" can easily, without fuss, be homebrewed at any individual table. As a GM I would be more than happy is a Druid Player wanted to describe their healing magic to take on the form of a ring of toadstools or floating flower puffs or whatever description made them feel fitted in with the concept of their character.

[@georgehancock652]

@@eponatwospirithorse4980 of course. It felt out of place with the language used to describe wildshape.

[@cferdinandi]

If they were looking for a way to ensure even fewer people play this amazing class, they nailed it! What a horrible suite of changes.

[@rmhtexas5982]

The idea that the Druid was underplayed because of wildshape complexity feels like a miss, and the resultant nerf (that's all this is) is a bigger miss, still. The druid has not been played as much as other class because they aren't as fun - they're underpowered without homebrew support.

[@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar]

Hard disagree druids are full list preppers of the largest spell list of full list preppers. With a focus on crowd control (the most powerful thing for a caster to focus on) with healing word and good berry. Conjure animals and entangle. Spike growth and polymorph and generally some of the most powerful crowd control in the game save hypnotic pattern and wildshape as a great buffer of health in emergencies The complexity of the largest full list prep caster PLUS the need of knowledge of stat blocks for optimizing both spells (summoning and polymorph) and wildshape makes them complex. But otherwise tremendously powerful. Providing some of the highest damage and crowd control in the game. Druids are very popular among power gaming communities

[@Dusterr23]

@@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar The only situation they can be among highest damage dealing is with conjure animals, which is banned or restricted in most games (for good reason). They were very tough with lots of hp, but low AC to balance it. Most of the spell list is concentration and if you lost it in wildshape you can't restart it without losing your form. It very much seems that you're unaware of the tradeoffs when actually playing the class and have only read about it.

[@___i3ambi126]

From what Im reading, this UA druid makes the class easier to play at the cost of excitement for old druid players. As someone who loved druids, this one is really bad. The few generic statblocks is a fine concept. It would be nice if they could have additional key word option 5e druids have access to (burrow speed, blindsight, spider climb, skill proficiencies, pack tactics, 50+ ft movement....). But its ok. The problem is that the little changes around that take a class that was the king of creativity and multiclassing, and clips all that at the bud. While in wild shape you have access to no race or class features. So a barbarian druid cant rage. A yuanti druid is not resistant to poison. Any feats you get do not apply to your wild shape. You dont benefit from skill proficiencies. And so on. You cant do anything. The creativity in both the shear quantity of options wild shape had and what wild shape could be paired with were both reduced to nothing. Then on top of that, wild shape gives no additional health in any way. Youre a caster, with a d8 hit dice, that wants to fight in melee with that extra attack every druid gets. But then you have no adittional health, meh AC, no abilities to get out of melee range easily, sometimes struggle to cast spells compared to a cleric, and cant benefit from feats.... This is really bad. I understand the druid needs a ton of work, but the most important thing to keep through those changes is the ability for druid players to feel rewarded for their creativity.

[@coleardoin7]

I didn’t realize how much I wanted the druid to change. I think this is the best changes one D&D has made so far.

[@Droogie128]

Wildshape has atrocious scaling. It has been in need of fixing

[@unusuallycloudy]

Same, the druid has always been a nightmare for new PCs and DMs alike. This new version is both elegant, easy to understand, and still powerful. Moon went from a boring overpowered sponge to a rogue-like melee support with loads of customization. This is probably the best UA they have made so far.

[@Dusterr23]

@@unusuallycloudy Play this and let me know how it goes in melee when you immediately die. You clearly don't play druid and don't understand how weak this is.

[@unusuallycloudy]

@@Dusterr23 Druids are full casters and have no business being tanks, and this solidifies it. Rogues have the same health pool and do just fine in melee, and druids can heal and use spells. You are clearly not a DM or have a sense of game design if you can't see how utterly broken and convoluted mess the 5e druid is. No longer will a druid be the jack-of-all-trades best at everything, and it is a long time coming. I can't throw my 5e PHB in the trash fast enough after seeing these changes.

[@Dusterr23]

@@unusuallycloudy I DM for 4 groups. Bladesingers are also full casters, how do you feel about them tanking? How about Forge Clerics with 22+ AC? You conveniently overlooked Rogues have tools to mitigate damage (Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, shield for arcane tricksters) that all come online before this new druid can turn into a squirrel. New Druid can't shield or mitigate damage in any way and can't get higher than 15 AC while Wildshaped. 5e Moon Druid is the best at level 2. Not nearly the best at all levels unless some really funky homebrew is allowed in your games.

[@ReMxEpiDeMiC]

These changes will ruin moon druid. Taking on the stats of what you turn into is the most fun part. Nobody wants to only be 1 animal

[@ericpeterson8732]

Healing blossoms is literally flower power.

[@CaitSith87]

I do understand the nerf. Moon druid was completely broken in T1, however if you ever saw a moon druid in late T2 or T3 you see how it become irrelevant as the forms don’t change that much and the health pools with the bad AC forces them to go back to be a full caster. Also I really like that full caster get now something on every level not “only” spells. But as he said I think a lot of people want to play a nature mage or elemental mage and for that the shapeshifting is far to prominent. Also with the huge nerfs I kind of don’t see the point of shapeshifting in combat. When you shift you loose your first turn for a shift. Thus you make slightly more damage then a cantrip, but as you loose your first turn it takes forever before you get that damage back not to mention surpass boring cantrip damage. While at the same time you stand there with horrible AC and your Druid HP pool in danger.

[@captainpandabear1422]

Well, you ruined Moon Druids entirely. They were overpowered at low levels before. Instead of a scalpel, you went in with a massive lumberjack axe and destroyed the subclass.

[@Abelhawk]

I don't like the wild shape stat blocks, but I'm going to give them good feedback in the survey because I think it would make it a lot easier for new players to use. I can always use the old rules if I want to, but those are a good alternative for the sake of simplicity.

[@skippy9273]

I have mixed opinions on this. I'm glad moon druid no longer has what was essentially a monopoly on wildshape, but losing the ability to use real statblocks kinda stings. I also like the customization aspect of being able to create an open ended transformation but it does lose some versatility. The loss of a separate health bar essentially turns wildshape into a non-spell alternative for damage or utility. It's interesting, druid will essentially have no protection when they go into melee in wildshape except their own health but I'm not sure if feats like tough apply there. It's strange, but I'd really like to know how non-moon druids interact with it.

[@WTFUSERNAM44]

The new druid sacrificed flavour for simplicity. Having an animal form for every occasion was amazing and added so much to the class. I was oaky with the hitpoint reduction that needed to be addressed but removing all flavour from the class is a mistake. You can be a spider now but can't climb on ceilings or webs. You can turn into a badger but can' burrow. Sad druid noises.

[@Telleryn]

It's weird that flying and aquatic forms are still reserved for later levels when character races with a swim or flying speed at 1st level exist, seems like a pointless holdover

[@SendohJin]

they don't exist in the PHB though.