Dual Fuel Heat Pump Install Tips - How To Install A Heat Pump

We walk through a cold weather, dual fuel inverter heat pump install and install tips. A dual fuel heat pump system relies on the heat pump as the primary heating source with the furnace being its back up. Every dual fuel heat pump job should start with an on site assessment and load calculation. It's also very important to use the proper thermostat, that's capable of controlling dual fuel systems. Making sure the thermostat is set up correctly is also very important.
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[@HVACKnowItAll]

Always start with a load calc!

[@georgeian3243]

Nice work, Gary, gotta love those hybrid systems. Since you had a heat loss calculation done, you can now do a balance point chart that will show you the outdoor temperature at which your compressor should shut down thus handing the heating job over to the furnace. In my case, my balance point worked out to -8F as my home is well insulated. It’s still an approximation, but you’ll be in the ballpark. In the old days, cabinet air filters were a premium accessory…we used to mount the cabinet horizontally in the drop duct for customers who paid for the upgrade. Sometimes there wouldn’t be enough room, had to move a water heater one time, but customers loved the convenience of the filter being more easily accessible.

[@salmansali6275]

Hi Gary I was in the king home training, the instructor said you don’t have to insulate two line. I like to have your comment on that.

[@HVACKnowItAll]

I didn't right the comment, it's was written by them. You don't necessarily have to no.

[@fearlesshvac]

I installed a Carrier dual fuel high efficiency gas furnace with a Carrier heat pump last October. Worked perfectly through the winter and just received my $5600 Federal rebate. Awesome!

[@electricboogie709]

Great! 👍😀

[@maitlandsebro283]

Don’t have O in my air handler,I have C-R-Y-G-W what do I use for O, do u use W?

[@Jon-hx7pe]

wire-nut it without using terminal.

[@Jon-hx7pe]

Isn't the reversing valve logic reversed with B terminal gree uses vs O and furnace control board would get wrong signal? Doesn't it matter to be able to disable slow blower rampup for dehumidify in heat mode and also expect a W1 call for defrost while Y is still energized? On better version of that furnace el296v -> there is actually a status code for heating with heatpump (lower case h) and another for heatpump defrost. I would think would need to reverse the logic with a relay.

[@scoobtoober2975]

What's an acceptable pressure check drop in PSI over 10 or 20 min. 1 or 2 psi. Is there a few psi range that temperature of the gas can fluctuate. Depending on the bottle temp vs system temp. I'm praying you tell me the good news. I let the gas into the system. It held 250 micron vac for 15 min no problem. I had to fiddle with the setup a bit. Most of these inverter systems have 3/8 ports and i didn't have 3/8 to 3/8 hoses or enough adapters. And cheap core removal tools. One of them leaked. one didn't. And some don't grab the core. Check that too

[@Dragonfiregum]

Is this an actual brick wall or a brick veneer like most brick homes? The brick veneer is just tied onto the wood studs and is not good for weight bearing and should be done all the way to the studs if done. Rather find a ground mount myself, the less holes in the wall the better. Something for people to keep in mind so a homeowner doesn't have other issues in years to come.

[@HVACKnowItAll]

I've used sleeve 1/2" sleeve bolts on this type of brick for 20 years now or more. It's literally never been an issue. These are full bricks, not just a facing.

[@bradmarshall7075]

The white stuff had issues with it become acidic and causing the line set to leak!!

[@normantkachenko9994]

I am thinking of installing an eco bee thermostat on my new duel fuel system. How dose the eco bee get the outside air temp to use for the compressor lock out or balance point? Was it easy to program? Was it simple and user friendly? What’s you opinion on the eco bee. Thanks

[@HVACKnowItAll]

It gets it from connecting to wifi and choosing location. It's very easy

[@valcao9844]

Did you add a bi-directional filter drier?

[@HVACKnowItAll]

No drier on this one.

[@valcao9844]

Is it something you could’ve added or didn’t on purpose? Just curious cause most of the heat pumps we get don’t have a filter drier included and reading the manual for the MOOVAIR unit didn’t necessarily specify either

[@harryschrysan3183]

Inverter heat pumps do not use filter driers because it will impair the velocity of the refrigerant. Inverters rump up and down constantly and a drier would be a problem.

[@scoobtoober2975]

3/4 by hand kinks fast, especially if you go fast and go against the previous coiled up direction. Get a good bender. My cheap one on 90's looks funny, but still acceptable. Maybe it's the copper producer influencing the bend shape/tension. The bender is pretty nice in function, it's like all the other ratchet ones.

[@jko0526]

We did almost the same set up in our home here in Wisconsin. We decided to go with a Mitsubishi heat pump system with our 16 year old Lennox furnace.

[@chuckliesch1120]

How is it working for you so far in our mild winter? What thermostat are you using?

[@jko0526]

It’s working great! I do think that it is raising my electric bill a bit but my furnace hasn’t ran at all this winter so far. Here in Wisconsin we are expecting some brutal winter weather over the next week so we’ll see what happens those days. My suspicion is that the heat pump will give up and my gas furnace will take over. Unfortunately I am stuck with the Mitsubishi brand thermostat! I see articles from Mitsubishi that say I can use other thermostats but the contractor that did the install insisted on making me use this one. They said whenever they contact Mitsubishi about a problem the first question that they ask is, “what kind of thermostat are you using?”. It a shame to have such a high tech system strapped to a no feature thermostat!

[@scoobtoober2975]

Surf bro channel highlighted the white textured insulation falls apart and corrodes line sets. I confirm that with a neighbors unit, a few years old. It looks like someone hit it with a torch and it's just gone in many spots. UV eats is. And it corroding the set quite bad. Those guys love the k-flex. I'd consider buying that stuff for sure. I premade set has jumbo neoprene style and it tears, but not as bad as i thought. But it definitely doesn't glide at all. And will help get it stuck in a whole and bunch up.

[@RamiTest]

Question please @14:30min , Defrost (D) wire not connected. sometime they call it W1. when heatpump go in defrost mode it send signal to furnace to start working.

[@hasj5212]

From my experience testing a new system that's filled with Freon use low PSI to test for leaks otherwise you might push nitrogen into the compressor the valves are not designed for High psi

[@SmitHVAC.]

That was a great explanation and a nice install, appreciate the coil info too. Looks identical to the Gree Flexx 2-3 ton unit, does this one have the selectable capacity or are the internal components different?

[@HVACKnowItAll]

It's the same unit. I think they're great machines. Heavy though lol

[@garymartin2336]

MrCool to me!

[@t.damianboyle622]

Excellent presentation. Shopping and learning about heat pumps suitable for a dual fuel system in Saskatoon, Canada. I learned a lot here. Good work. Thank you! 👍

[@andredai8167]

When heat pump goes to defrost cycle, does the furnace turn on gas burning to providing warm air or just supplying cold air to the house?

[@mikemcdermott8366]

Hey hey. Does the system not require a relay to prevent the furnace from trying to start?

[@HVACKnowItAll]

It All done at thermostat

[@mustafah4668]

Awesome video 👍 I've been installing a mixture of keep rite and Continental/Napoleon . Napoleon same as king home, just different name lol. I'm really hoping they change the service valves location. It's really annoying that it's inside

[@woodystokes1543]

Need a surge protector for both units. Everything else looks great 😊

[@canadiancomfort2138]

Can u suggest us a model please

[@thesilentonevictor]

Clean work tech

[@HVACKnowItAll]

Thank you!

[@Sesamestreet9080]

So we don’t use the d terminal on dual fuel? Why is that?

[@HVACKnowItAll]

I'm looking into this today. I may change that

[@maxapollo1]

those rectorseal brackets rust like crazy here in eastern canada

[@HVACKnowItAll]

Try using using Viper Coil Coating. It protects metals from corrosion

[@yewsuck5537]

I installed an ACIQ 26vac controlled Hyper Heat Pump in a dual fuel system. WOW! What a difference. My heating and electric bill was about $625 a month combined. Dropped them down to $340 combined. ACIQ is owned by ICP. The heat pump is really a Midea product.. The non 26vac versions are rebranded by ICP's Carrier/Bryant as their residential light commercial heat pump. I love this heat pump. I have my system set up as a 2 cool and 3 heat stages. The heat pump has high and low compressor stages. I added a 26vac relay operated by the high compressor stage input. The relay raises the fan speed to maximize the flow across the coil which maximizes the hear pump. I control the system with a Honeywell Vision Pro T Stat. This setup gives me 13k to 47k Btu cooling and 11k to 57k Btu heating with heatpump and 80k Btu output for the furnance. My heatpump does great down to 5F. At that point the Btu loss of the house starts making the heatpump cycles defrost a little more than the Thermostat temp split likes and the furnance kicks on. The furnanace kicks on as part of the Defrost as well using the defrost/humidity output from the heat pump spliced to the furnance on input. So I get hot air during the heat pump Defrost cycle. Love this setup. The house is warm and the bills are lower!

[@Jon-hx7pe]

I read a carrier 38mura training (same midea product) presentation and it said even with only y1 energized - first stage call -> it gradually ramps up to full capacity, just starting at a lower capacity and ramping lower compared to a y2 call. Said specifically to run fan at full cfm required for max capacity only. I wonder if the aciq and moov-air (another re-badged product) works the same way. If it is true, have to be careful not running too low of a cfm on first stage if fan staging is done.

[@yewsuck5537]

@@Jon-hx7pe, When starting the unit will limit the max Potential and slowly ramp up to max Potential. However, the EEV will open and close based off of return temp and pressure of the refrigerant and still limit the output. So it starts out as an "up to 12kbtu" then slowly ramps up increasing btu max until it becomes a "up to 48kbtu" . Basically it slowly allows more and more max load capability on the compressor..

[@Jon-hx7pe]

do you have source on this? compressor limits itself based on metering device closing? i thought eev just works to maintain proper superheat like a more advanced txv. what about in cooling mode with a regular txv on indoor coil, as midea/carrier/moovair use on dual fuel/crossover applications? the document i read i called "Crossover Training 38MURA/40MUAA" if u want to search it up. Read page 64 and page 93. @k5537

[@Jon-hx7pe]

do you have source on this? compressor limits itself based on metering device closing? i thought eev just works to maintain proper superheat like a more advanced txv. what about in cooling mode with a regular txv on indoor coil, as midea/carrier/moovair use on dual fuel/crossover applications? the document i read i called "Crossover Training 38MURA/40MUAA" if u want to search it up. Read page 64 and page 93. @@yewsuck5537

[@channelcatchaser9426]

Hows the business doing? Hope all is well

[@HVACKnowItAll]

Going well and I appreciate you asking

[@channelcatchaser9426]

@@HVACKnowItAll I'm 6 yrs into my own business and it has changed my life. Keep it up man love your videos on all platforms.

[@HVACKnowItAll]

Great to hear and thank you!

[@trinito97]

Power the machine 8 hnrs before ? 😮

[@HVACKnowItAll]

Only if it's cold outside. You don't want to start the compressor with liquid in it.

[@mtgwdefender]

Hey guys! Have any of you replaced R22 out of a residential AC unit and use R12 instead? I would like to know if had a good or bad experience. Thank you very much in advance

[@Jon-hx7pe]

wouldn't work properly. r12 runs different pressures and has very different capacity. r12 is extremely expensive - why u would want that, i don't know.

[@eastcoast186]

Thanks for the great video 👍

[@HVACKnowItAll]

I appreciate the watch!

[@symfranec]

Thank you for the video Gary - very imformative. Does that heat pump have two stage heat and cooling? If so, would you need more wires to the thermostat to take advantage of that function?

[@Jon-hx7pe]

variable capacity machine with single stage control - slowly ramps up. there's another one by midea sold under moov-air and carrier 38mura that has y1/y2 inputs but controls starting capacity and how quickly it ramps up. bosch has one that modulates to maintain a consistent indoor coil temperature, and the indoor fan can be staged to give some capacity control. For direct thermostat capacity control over variable capacity of heatpump, need a communicating system like carrier infinity, mistubishi, lennox signature, daikin etc. Gets very expensive.

[@Jared_Albert]

Thank you very informative!

[@stevencossaboon3237]

Good job Gary. Thank you

[@HVACKnowItAll]

Appreciate it!

[@Trades46]

I have a Gree 3ton unit set up recently paired with a Carrier furnace. Interestingly my HVAC installer has recommended and set the heat pump threshold to a stagger 10deg C, stating it was more efficient the run the furnace than heat pump at this stage. Everything I've read, including your vid, says these Gree Flexx units are designed to operate right into the -20 deg C even if the efficiency is reduced. Should I readjust the settings from what you recommend?

[@charliec259]

A hack did your install lol😅😅

[@Jon-hx7pe]

the optimal balance point depends on energy costs as well as heat loss vs heatpump output.

[@hasj5212]

Great video and nice install

[@Gatsu1995]

Does Nylog effect the torque spec?

[@HVACKnowItAll]

I don't find it does, some say they don't go full torque when using it.

[@Gatsu1995]

@@HVACKnowItAll Thanks Gary!

[@dongzhou4973]

What should the o/b set to energized? On cool or on heat ? In the manual it doesn't tell much definition

[@Keep6ix360]

On Heat. Most brands (Bosch, Kinghome, MDV, Moovair, Gree, ICP, Keeprite).

[@hugoayala6262]

Love the video, so for the coil is a non- Txv and install a fixed orfice? Or is there a special coil for the dual?

[@HVACKnowItAll]

Txv in there for a heat pump

[@mylesm7947]

Excellent, good job ,love your presentation