A Narrative Critique of Dawnguard

[@DukeofWhales]

I meant to have this done for Halloween, but it took a little longer than I expected, and I had my first encounter with copyright claims! Apparently MGM’s bot is very protective over thirty seconds of trailer footage from the 1939 Wuthering Heights film, so a couple of modifications and half a day of exporting/uploading later, we’re (hopefully) free at last. I’ve got something a little smaller planned for my next video, but Assassin’s Creed II, the Dragonborn DLC, and Morrowind are all on the shortlist moving forward.

[@davidevans8790]

Can't wait for Morrowind, please make it a long one!

[@appleseed8282]

You actually did pre-emptively screw up Serana's cure dialouge option Since it gets locked off if you ever talk about her curing it before you've convinced her that it was bad

[@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842]

Thank you kindly for your work. It is a great critique video!

[@Whaprone]

i am very eager to see your opinions on morrowind since i was never able to play that one. it's been so long since i last played skyrim, especially main skyrim content, so it's interesting to see just how much of the plot i had forgotten

[@vitormelomedeiros]

Ooohh, yeah, I also think Morrowind is gonna be GOOOOD. I think the character of Vivec is actually very interesting to take seriously from a literary standpoint, tracking down all the references Michael Kirkbride put there and were explained by New Whirling School, etc. I actually learned some stuff doing that. And the plot is my favorite from all CRPGs in this century, but I didn't finish Baldur's Gate 3 yet, so who knows...

[@abbymoore6784]

The commitment to keep trying to give dead bodies a proper burial, yet being foiled by badly timed mechanics… 10/10 gameplay

[@LolCat361]

1.5k and no replies? wtf?

[@crapnuggets202]

Pure Bethesda imo

[@theradiantdehd3997]

I always leave a nightshade flower on the corpse of any dead NPC I care about. Followers, NPCs I liked, people I killed who didn’t really deserve it, etc. Similar to how I’d leave a Silent Princess at the statue of Mipha in BOTW/TOTK to mourn her death. It’s simple, fun RP that makes deaths feel a bit more impactful.

[@archieames1968]

The dumbest thing about this is that its called Dawnguard yet the Dawnguard sits around their castle the entire storyline and just sends you to do all their errands.

[@azzor4134]

That is just Skyrim in a nutshell.

[@doughboywhine]

would you really want them getting in your way though?

[@lozm4835]

@@doughboywhine I mean, they could at least have had a couple of missions about stopping some big vampire raids, or an actual proper siege on the castle, or something. Some Vampire Hunting with the Dawnguard. Even the mages guild has you hang out with the other students in the field for a bit before you take precedence.

[@utopian4769]

Honestly, like the first commentator said, that's a Skyrim issue that isn't exclusive to the Dawnguard quest line. The narrative treats the Dragonborn as a special snowflake who's rewarded endlessly by people more experienced than them. The College of Winterhold, The Companions, the Dark Brotherhood etc, all end with you being the leader of the guild despite not being there for long. Skyrim doesn't shy away from letting you know it's a power fantasy.

[@archieames1968]

@@utopian4769 I've never gotten around to finishing the main quest but while you are right Dawnguard sticks out more in this regard. In the the Dragonborn DLC the first Dragonborn at least pops up from time to time in the story. In the base game the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild play semiactive roles in their questlines. Not enough in either case but its more than the Dawnguard they essentially completely fade into the background until maybe the final quest where they are just minions to help you take over. Again it is a problem with the entire game and Bethesda in general but Dawnguard is particularly obnoxious about it.

[@JRexRegis]

On your point about Alduin in Helgen - there's a long-standing theory in the Lore community that the reason why Alduin went to Helgen is because he sensed a dragon there. We know that he began resurrecting them from their mounds soon after, so the reason why he was there is easy to deduce - as is his wrath at finding a human village there: He thought Helgen was built over a dragon burial site, that the humans had become arrogant enough in his absence as to have desecrated even the graves of their former gods. This becomes more clear when you analyze the first shout he uses, which has the graphics of Unrelenting Force - the same visual effect as accompanies his Slen Tiid-Vo, the shout he uses to resurrect dead dragons.

[@FirstLast-wk3kc]

The last bit of details weren't known to me. Thanks

[@thepriorstone4064]

Duuude the player has 0 control over the character until Alduin uses that shout, where we are suddenly in control. It’s almost like we are playing the Soul of the character rather than the character themselves. Super cool detail I never noticed

[@JRexRegis]

@@thepriorstone4064 damn, didn't even consider that! That would explain why we were seemingly a random person not connected to the imperial royal family - likely, we're some kind of distant descendant of Alessia, and Alduin accidentally reawakened our dormant dragon blood with that shout.

[@DarkCamelinMaroc]

Wow. It also explains the timing and even the angle of the Shout. It wasn't a coincidence that Alduin lands on the Tower just above you as you are about to be beheaded and shouts directly at you.

[@lindor6393]

This comment needs more likes

[@HerohammerStudios]

I think 'the tyranny of the sun' makes sense when you consider Harkon as a character. He doesn't just want to live, he wants to thrive. To feed on entire cities, kill anyone he wants, breathe in the morning air knowing all is his to own. The limitations put on a vampire in the day aren't fatal, but they're unacceptable to a man like Harkon. A man who slaughtered a thousand innocents for power

[@s.lmaaltajik7572]

That makes a lot of sense. Harkon reads as a narcissist, so declaring war on the sun for slightly inconveniencing him is 100% believable. The vampire’s perception of power also helps explain Harkon’s motives; Molag Bal is the Daedric Prince of Domination, by extension, vampirism is the domination of death itself. Vampires, shown by the infighting of Harkon’s court, seek to dominate. It’s only narratively correct that Harkon, in all his delusions of grandeur, would seek to dominate an actual celestial body. Sorry for the word vomit

[@HerohammerStudios]

@@s.lmaaltajik7572 don't ever be sorry. I certainly enjoyed reading that

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

Dragonborn: ''Not to mention I've been walking around with your daughter for weeks. The sun doesn't even hurt you. You can go into the sunlight whenever you want!'' Harkon: ''Well... you *can* but... it's fucking annoying...'' - The Senile Scribbles

[@LadyDoomsinger]

Also, I don't think it's made clear, whether "ending" the Tyranny of the Sun actually means putting out the Sun permanently, or just have the ability to turn it dark temporarily allowing you to move and fight as if it's nighttime for a set amount of time. As I recall, if you have Auriel's Bow, and the tainted arrows, and fire an arrow into the Sun, it will go dark, and the game mechanics will consider the time of day as "Night time" for a set duration. This might have been Harkon's plan all along, simply having the means to disable the Sun whenever he needed it... Not permanently erase it from existence, which seems rather... stupid.

[@sergeant_cheese]

no one is skyrim is innocent

[@lilboogie9812]

I like how Harkon “wants to make a world where his people can thrive instead of hide” but fails to realize that without any sun all the plants would die, all the animals would die, all of the of the people would die, and all of the vampires would starve to death. 10/10 plan there Harkon

[@georgemurdock7670]

Who knows how publicly know it is that plants need sun to grow, or even if they do need light at all, and nirner only have fields outside for space reasons. We have enough life underground in caves, Blackreach also looks life filled and i doubt the dwermer had big fields infront of there towers to keep them fed. Life will find a way, especially with magic. Ps: or mushroom soups with chaurus, both grow underground

[@eslin2845]

Theres also the fact that “sunlight” is light from aetherius, same as the stars, anx that “blocking the sun” might only block the light thats harmful to vampires”

[@lilboogie9812]

@@eslin2845 I mean possibly. If you shoot the arrows into the sun I doubt that light would be conducive for life but maybe

[@DaBIONICLEFan]

​@@lilboogie9812 the "sun" of the Elder Scrolls isn't like our Sun dude. It's not responsible for life 😂

[@lilboogie9812]

@@DaBIONICLEFan source? Farms in Tamriel have farmers who till the land and manage the crops. This suggests that at the very least plants require similar soil conditions to plants on Earth. Why then would they not require sunlight? Roots and mushrooms seem to do rather well inside of caves and areas that get little sunlight, but regular crops for eating such as potatoes, tomatoes, leeks, gourds, cabbages, wheat, etc. are only found growing in areas where they can obtain levels of light as their real world counterparts require to grow healthily. Until I see evidence that plants in Tamriel don’t require light to grow I’m gonna assume they work the same way our plants do, requiring sunlight, water, and rich tilled soil to grow.

[@azzor4134]

At 1:05:06 , one could argue that the reason Alduin went to Helgen in the first place after being sent back into the world was because he felt the presence of a dragon there. But only a vague presence, so he didn't know that it was you, only that you were there.

[@ghostlycoyote]

I thought that was outright canon. I definitely believe it, anyway It makes sense that that dragon knows it’s you, too, since who else could it be?

[@ABurntMuffin]

that's not a bad theory but why did Alduin come back now of all times anyways? It's because you were about be executed and you're part of a prophecy. You're literally not allowed to die there. For the same reason that Alduin would pop into the universe anywhere and then come looking for you because you have a dragon soul, you could say that Alduin just popped into existence THERE at helgen, #1 because it's right underneath the mountain he was teleported to the future from, and #2 because again, it's part of a prophecy. Why WOULDN'T a cosmic coincidence be warranted?

[@Laezar1]

@@ABurntMuffin One could argue the opposite, that you were given a dragon soul specifically because you would be there right when alduin appears. Which ultimately is pretty much the same thing. But yeah when prophecies are a thing coincidence are kinda expected =p

[@Wiggyam]

It could also be completely random, as Helgen is right by the foot of High Hrothgar, where he was banished forwards in time.

[@DustdeviIs]

okay, then why didn’t alduin continue pursuing you after he didnt feel you die? why didnt he ambush you after you shouted for the first time, kill the dovahkiin before it gets too powerful?

[@Xahnel]

Serana gave me an amazing reason to do as she asked: instead of commanding me, or dismissing me, or being hostile to me, she was polite. She then immediately proved her value as a travelling companion by ice shanking the gargoyles for me.

[@Necromancer4267]

That's fine for someone cosplaying as a Vampire Hunter out of boredom. For someone who signs up to be a Vampire Hunter, the plot immediately and fully demands you to forget what DLC you're playing.

[@DODUCKA]

​@Necromancer4267 I mean, only if you're playing a pretty naive and narrowminded Vampire Hunter, right? In which case like duh: the situation is not what you expect

[@Necromancer4267]

@@DODUCKA If you think a vampire locked in a tomb is out of the ordinary, you need to consume more media. Nothing about the situation is the slightest bit out of the ordinary, which is why the narrative is immediately broken the second your character is forced to stop and placate the vampire any hunter would immediately kill.

[@DODUCKA]

@Necromancer4267 ... How about the elder scroll on her back? If you think that the best way to kill vampires is to never listen to anything any of them have to say, you are wasting good allies. Vampires love to kill eachother and only short sighted and naive vampire hunters kill every single one they find without ever questioning what they're doing, or considering learning from them to more effectively kill other vampires, as I mentioned.

[@Necromancer4267]

@@DODUCKA In what fucking world would a VAMPIRE HUNTER not kill a VAMPIRE who has an Elder Scroll? Lol you might as well have said that a Seal Team 6 soldier would hear out Bin Laden because he's holding a list of Nuclear Codes. Your logic is a point in my favor, guy.

[@kayn9651]

Falmer building their tents around water is something I hadn't noticed before, but... it makes sense. - First off, being blind, the sound of running water would be an easy way to locate their homes if they get lost. - Also, being blind, they probably would find running water more easily than they could find stagnant water. As for how Harkon's bite makes you pass out, I recall there's a dialogue line that mentions that Harkon was actually hoping you would die from his bite, and it's only because you're a dragonborn that you survive, and he pauses to consider you might be useful, or that you'll likely die along the way either way. Like when going for the Blood Stone Chalice. - Funny how it's only after that part, that Harkon tries to be more "fatherly" to try to keep you on a silk leash.

[@Alizudo]

"Silk leash" is a phenomenal expression that I will absolutely be taking note of.

[@kayn9651]

@@Alizudo Thank you! No idea if it's an actual idiom, just.. kinda made it up on the spot, as it made sense in the context. Think I read in a book or story, probably "Fram the Polar Bear" though I might be wrong, about an animal tamer using a silk whip for performances as it wouldn't hurt the animals but still give the same "cues" as the regular whip, just... while being softer.

[@azzor4134]

Do you remember when that dialogue takes place? You could dig it up on either wiki (fandom or uesp) or maybe there is some other website with all Skyrim dialogue written somewhere. I'm asking because sometimes what we remember turns out not to be something that happend in fact, but a remembrance of a past imagination... and I do not remember any dialogue mentioning Harkon hoping you'd die.

[@kayn9651]

​@@azzor4134 I was able to find it, it's not an *exact* confirmation, but I'd say heavily implied. after you become a Vampire Lord, if you ask "What happened? How did I get here?", Harkon tells you "In truth, your strength surprises me. Not all mortals can withstand my embrace." Then there's also the part later in the quest where he says he knew you would turn on him eventually, implying that from the start he planned on being rid of you, this is during the quest Kindred Judgement.

[@OneVoiceMore]

Your science is a little wonky. Running water here sounds like running water there. Sure, blind people could follow water sounds, but --- location? Nah. There has to be more to it. They build near water because people need water. Smell would be far more developed --- and yes, stagnant water REEKS, so easily avoided. The game shows an incredibly poor understanding of natural selection, too. The Falmer would die out quickly. Their entire physiognamy is based on being sighted hominids. Changing their location doesn't change their DNA. The blindness doesn't become a trait to pass on unless there was a species-wide genetic change. It becomes a birth defect that would be heavily disfavored in reproduction. The Falmer are just designed from the end.

[@GMP1isReal]

To be fair, Bethesda actually did think of the player going back to Fort Dawnguard with Serana after meeting her, and Isran says bring her to where she wants to figure out their plan. Why the Dragonborn doesn't mention the Elder Scroll... yeah, I got nothing.

[@ZorotheGallade]

Isran looking at the two biggest bargaining chips they could ever have against the vampires and going "Hmm, give them back to the vampires, that way we'll know more about their plan". Making the huge assumption the Dragonborn won't either defect to their side or become vampire food the moment they're back in their hands. Yep. What a cunning and wise leader. All that to make sure you stay on the Bethesda Theme Park Ride and have absolutely zero chance of missing the game telling you "HEY YOU CAN JOIN THIS FACTION TOO".

[@Islamphobe]

⁠@@ZorotheGallademan it’s so odd that they try to set you on like one specific path while making role play games like you can force a player down a specific path but not in a roleplay game lol. Similar problem I feel like mentioning is not only do they literally force you to play the way they designed by making the story go down one specific path but they also force certain builds more than others. Destruction magic pre cc is underpowered, bows are overpowered and most special abilities/shouts are way to underpowered to consider using too and don’t even try making a speech build lol. The games mechanics very much encourage playing a select few ways and while that’s fine for someone like me who likes using shields to destroy my enemies I couldn’t imagine how someone trying to be a master pyromancer would feel when all their grinding is for a pathetic spell that does like equal damage to a single swing from a dagger lol. Now thankfully the games broken enough you can make it work (restro loop+fortify destruction potions=as much damage as you want) but A. Mages shouldn’t have to put in more work to be equal to warriors or thieves and B. Breaking the game shouldn’t be necessary to make being a mage viable. Theirs nothing wrong with obscure or purposefully limited builds needing to put in more effort but with something like mages this shouldn’t be the case at all.

[@jamesmayou1361]

I feel like they could have made this work by having the Dragonborn not knowing she had the elder scroll. Maybe you ask what that big thing on her back is and she brushes it off, then you get to harkons court and he asks about the elder scroll you realize your fuck up and have to return to isran with your tail between your legs. Skyrim is not a perfect game, but the underlying ideas of the storylines are so nuanced that it’s hard to understand where the disconnect with the gameplay came from

[@snowboundwhale6860]

@@ZorotheGallade especially given the later choice to become a vampire to enter the Soul Cairn means there's another point down the line where you get the "become a vampire lord" option if you'd skipped over this first one, so it'd be a better "pick a side" moment without cutting off the option of vampirism all together.

[@PANCAKEMINEZZ]

It's almost like Bethesda can't write a story to save their life and haven't been able to since Morrowind.

[@NamelessDemonkitten]

to add further to the "gods cant protect you from vampirism" thing Molag-bal's first victim, Lamae Beolfag, was transformed millennia ago in the merethic era long before the destruction of the Falmer or Dwemer or Ayleids and was targeted by Molag-bal specifically because she was a devout priestess of Arkay, the god of the life and death and sworn enemy to undead and necromancers, because Molag-Bal resented Arkay's control over the cycles of life and death. If even *Arkay* of all gods cant stop their devout followers from being turned into an undead being then none of the gods can. Vyrthur's "Auri-El didn't protect me" thing doesnt make sense unless hes operating on blind faith and doesnt know anything of how vampires work or their history, which he very well might not.

[@greed140]

A bit of correction - Arkay didn't help Lamae not because he explicitly couldn't. More likely he chose not to. Even if he couldn't stop Molag-Bal from abusing her - he's a god, certainly he could heal her afterwards. If a mortal mage can completely undo this unholy state, what's that to a literal god? Lamae became undead, something that Arkay strongly resents. Hence why I side with the story that he just abandoned her to her fate, which gods tend to do. "Despite her efforts, Arkay did not answer." Not even "Alas, I can't save you anymore". Just silence.

[@Coretide660]

​@greed140 let's not forget also that Molag-bal despite being basically the creator of vampires in elder scrolls, doesn't even know how to cure it, only another prince can help cure it (which ironically is the prince of dreams) so even if he wanted to get rid of it on one of his followers, he has to go to another prince just to cure a follower.

[@diewott1337]

@@greed140 There's the theory that the Aedra are weak due to creating the universe, so they can barely interfere in mortal affairs even if they wished to do so. While the Daedric didn't spend their powers and therefore have a lot of chances to influence things in Mundus. The Magna-Ge just don't give a fuck and left lol

[@collincaperton6718]

​@@Coretide660hircine can also cure it a person can't have the beast blood and be an undead at the same time

[@nickoliekeyov746]

A small side note: you can only cure Serana if you avoid asking her about if she wants to be cured, probably because in that case it feels more like a decision she comes to herself rather than feeling pushed to make that choice like she has most of her life

[@mahmud7645]

You can cure her vampirism?! 10 years later and I never knew

[@thatskeletordude5271]

​@@mahmud7645only her eyes change to "normal" but she still has vampire spells like Drain Life for some reason.

[@BattleDroid-sd4rp]

​@@mahmud7645yes you can.

[@Aethuviel]

You must tip toe around every comment you ever make in dialogue with her though, from day one. If she doesn't like you A LOT, she won't do it. @@mahmud7645

[@abidoran3439]

​@mahmud7645 Yeah, I was able to do it. When I saw the clip of her saying she wants to remain a vampire, I was surprised because that's not how it went for me. I don't remember the exact dialogue options I went through, but it ended in her saying something to the effect of "i need to think about it and do it on my own" and then she leaves for a while before become available as a follower again. And when she does appear, she's not a vampire.

[@javierpupo8042]

59:14 One of my favorite angles of tackling the myth of the Dragonborn is that they were literally created to preserve the world. Keyword "preserve" not "save". When we go to the Greybeards after slaying Alduin, Arngeir says that it is Alduin's destiny to consume the world at some point, the only reason that time isn't now is because we were created by Akatosh to prevent Alduin from straying from his destiny, dominating the world instead of destroying it. Which can only mean that if Alduin ever does decide to fulfill his destiny, Tamriel is doomed and the Dragonborn will not be around to save it. I always saw the name of "The Last Dragonborn" to mean the "latest" Dragonborn, but actually what it means is that they are literally the final one that will ever be created, unless Alduin decides to dominate the world again. There may not be another Dragonborn who can save the world like we can. What if there was a way to achieve immortality so we can stave off the world's destined destruction forever. In a way, straying from our own destiny of preserving the world *for now*, we actually can try to preserve it indefinitely as a vampire. Alduin will show up again. Either in 100 years or a 1000. But if the Dragonborn were to be immortal, they can save it again. Even if they aren't meant to. That is a wonderful way of inverting the chosen one story the Dragonborn is meant to fulfill.

[@sicksock435446]

I think the point of the Dragonborn and Alduin is that they are both aspects of Akatosh and living expressions of his conflicting view of the world. The mortal Dragonborn represents the belief in growth and change. The way that life struggles to overcome all limits and overthrow all paradigms. The immortal Alduin represents the finality of time, the fatalistic view of the end and the pointlessness of mortal struggle, which while hard for a mortal to understand, must be painfully, embarrassingly obvious for an immortal god of time. The battle between the Dragonborn and Alduin is a literal argument regarding the fate of the world. If the dragonborn wins, then that 'aspect' of time is preserved. If Alduin wins then the inevitable end occurs sooner. Either way Akatosh gets his answer, at least for now. I agree that the dragonborn probably only delays the world's destruction if they defeat Alduin. Even if he never personally returned, the world of Tamriel would presumably succumb to entropy or some other disaster eventually.

[@javierpupo8042]

@@sicksock435446 It probably still could come to that kind of end but to the Vampiric Dragonborn, at least it will never end by Alduin. If Vampirism is a sacrifice for more power to deal with a reoccurring threat then it's one they would not make lightly. I'm just saying it'd be a compelling fall from grace if the Dragonborn chose to be a vampire and it's what I went with for my character.

[@indrickboreale7381]

​@@sicksock435446 The thing is the world cannot end by the time of Skyrim - timeline drawings show there must be at least 3000 years before the end of the Kalpa (current space and time). Alduin came too early, so the insane time god Akatosh (when we count all Dragon Breaks, when the time isn't linear, he isn't well) sent the Last Dragonborn Edit: According to non-canon "C0DA", written by Michael Kirkbride himself (one of the main writers for most Elder Scrolls), the end of the Kalpa will happen in Fifth Era

[@sheriffcraft7673]

I don't think so. Power scales aren't linear in The Elder Scrolls universe, it depends on where you are and what you're doing. If alduin were to fullfill his destiny as intended, he would very surely kill the Dragonborn, even with no power nerfs or whatever. After all, he did fought some foes much stronger than the dragonborn in previous kalpas (like old Mehrunez Dagon) and won.

[@0ICloudStrifeI0]

The issue with this is that we were fighting a weakened Alduin, who had lost much of his power as a result of rejecting his role/destiny. If Alduin were to come back in his full power, intent on destroying Mundus, there’s nothing the Dragonborn can do to stop him.

[@MCPunk55]

The mod "Serana Dialogue Add-on" touches on why the Dragonborn - even if siding with the Dawnguard - did not harm Serana. She cast a spell on the Dragonborn. When you reach Castle Volkihar, a window shows up saying you feel a spell wearing off. And Serana confesses later she did indeed charm you. It's a shame a mod needs to do this...

[@azzor4134]

It's not canon, but does make it more believable.

[@MCPunk55]

I did start the comment with "THE MOD" and ended with "A MOD". @@azzor4134

[@alessandrott7568]

Just another example of the mod community enhancing or outright fixing aspects of the game... I think Serana Dialogue Edit does something similar too. As for the questline itself, I personally found it a bit more satisfying by siding with the vampires, it all seemed to make more sense from a vampire's perspective, though the climax is pretty much the same and you don't get much choice. I'm playing it again now with a post-Dawnguard expansion mod called "Old Blood" to see if I get something more interesting from the Volkihar side.

[@utopian4769]

@@alessandrott7568 I mean tbf, it's easy to "fix" something when the idea is already there. Not really excusing the writing because Skyrim has alot of writing issues, but I do think it's much easier to expand on an already existing idea to make it better than to create a new one, especially when you don't have a bunch of executive meddling and people higher than you breathing down your neck like the devs did during the game's development. Also let's be honest, there are definitely alot of Skyrim mods that leave alot to be desired.

[@alessandrott7568]

@@utopian4769 True too!

[@Metalseadraking]

I actually think Duunheviir recognized the player as a fellow Dovah because he fought you Talking for dragons is just like fighting their entire species was ruled by domination and strenght I personally think Duunheviir felt "the Dragon inside you" as you defeat him Like the first dragon you kill in the main quest who imedietly recognized you as Dovakhin the moment you defeat and slay him

[@sicksock435446]

Man the 'talking as fighting' thing was such an underused aspect. Imagine if you could talk down dragons if you knew enough words. Imagine if there was a 'true' ending where if you knew nearly all the dragon language you could speech check Alduin himself.

[@VisceralSupreme]

i thought mirmulnir recognised the dragonborn as the dragonborn because he could feel his soul getting idk eaten

[@beepbop6542]

@@sicksock435446 OH MY GOD That ending would be so good! It could even be worked into the "way of the voice" vs. "way of the blades" dichotomy that barely exists in the game

[@citizenvulpes4562]

@@sicksock435446 Yeah, but that's too smart, we need them to be over glorified spells that you'll barely use in combat because of the cool down time, and is really only used to throw goats off mountains.

[@gillriet773]

He calls you dovah and can reveal your DragonBall nature if he's the first dragon you've faced without starting the main quest. Kinda fun, he's like, "whyd i call you a dovah? oh... yeah you'll find out."

[@CruzaComplex]

I think the most telling part of Dawnguard is that the expansion's namesake is the faction that wasn't even in the original plans for the DLC. An employee knocked out the vampire skill tree in a code jam, it was decided to do a DLC about vampires, and then as an afterthought the Dawnguard were added because higher-ups insisted some people might find it cooler to be a vampire hunter.

[@todd2.08]

It is cooler to be a vampire hunter tho the drip is immaculate

[@ledanoir1239]

Lmao, higher ups being right

[@sturm9087]

Gotta give it to the execs on this one. They were right, skyrim makes it hard enough as is to play a good “paladin” type character. At least dawnguard gives me the option unlike basically every daedra quest

[@TheParagonIsDead]

And yet the dawngaurd story is still pretty fleshed out.

[@CruzaComplex]

@@TheParagonIsDead I would respectfully disagree

[@RikiazGaming]

About the Tyranny of the Sun issues (@36:00) the worst part about this is that Oblivion and Morrowind had the sun be actually deadly to vampires, Skyrim is just so allergic to inconveniencing the player in any way, so they just reduced the negative effects to be extremely minor.

[@ZorotheGallade]

That's one of the biggest narrative failures of Skyrim (and sometimes TES as a whole): You get these elements that are supposed to give you power at the cost of bearing a terrible curse, and yet the drawbacks are minimal. Daedric lords just turn you into an errand boy for one quest and insult you a little while they give you their artifact. Being a werewolf means you just get an alternate form at the price of not getting a small buff when sleeping. Being a vampire gives you a small debuff when out in the open in a game where 99% of the combat encounters takes place inside dungeons anyway.

[@arnesieper8332]

@@ZorotheGallade meanwhile, in oblivion, being a vampire out in the open quite literally melted your life away. it allows you to (partially) fail at quests, for example when you help two boys reclaim their family home from goblins, and their father begs them not to put their life in danger for it. that father will be overcome by grief if one of the sons dies in the fight. or the Dark Brotherhood, where doing a job not the intended way deprives you of the (often powerful) bonus item you could get. in morrowind, your actions have even more consequences. want to progress in the fighters guild? sure, but the upper leadership is at political strife with the thieves guild, you see, its one or the other at some point. there are loads of quests that require pissing someone of (or outright killing them), people that you would have needed for other quests. it is impossible to experience all the game has to offer in one playthrough, as completing some quests will break the needed sequences for others. and (the obvious) you can even kill main quest NPCs, ruining your main questline and dooming the world.

[@GoldenLeafsMovies]

​@@arnesieper8332I remember my brother softlocked himself in oblivion with the vampire disease. He was like in a cave somewhere and couldn't go out or he would die, also couldn't fast travel cause the nearest place was too far and the distance was enough to kill him.

[@bobbythotimus1184]

That basically sums up Bethesdas game design philosophy for the past decade, sacrificing any kind of role play experience for the sake of "Player convenience" which actually serves to cheapen the experience

[@ZorotheGallade]

@@bobbythotimus1184 Same reason I hate Fallout 4's main quest pacing. Instead of seeking out the factionf on your own and perhaps figure out your own way of learning about the Institute, you're forced to follow the dumbest breadcrumb trail ever so that you HAVE to interact with all of the faction before the game just pops the question "So which one are you going with?" There's no reward for successfully finding them and earning their trust: unless you deliberately and royally piss them off by shooting them on sight, all of them will keep being available until the split. Vampirism in Dawnguard is the same. You don't go seeking Harkon on your own, perhaps expecting to be rewarded with some sort of dark, forbidden power for bringing him back Serana and the Scroll, perhaps eschewing bringing her to the Dawnguard which would open up all kinds of ramifications (would they find it difficult to cooperate with them? Would they use her as a bargaining chip with the vampires? Would the benefits outweigh the danger). You just answer the yes/no question you're forced into, and grab your new powers. If you have second thoughts about it, no problem, you can cure it at the low low cost of soul trapping a random bandit. If you have second thoughts on NOT getting it, you can have Serana give it to you anyway no questions asked. Being human/vampire only locks you out of questing for the opposite faction, but there really is no reason to keep doing that once you've finished the quest line. Or you can join the Companions and purge the vampirism by becoming a werewolf. Aela even gives you one free do-over if you lose the lycanthropy, and I'm actually surprised Bethesda put a hard limit to that as well. Bethesda is so allergic to adding long term consequences for player actions that the player has zero stakes. There are no story branches, no major choices, and whenever you are givem something that looks like one you lose maybe 1% of that quest's content and a bit of dialogue. You can count the number of questlines you can permanently lock yourself out of on the fingers of one hand: even the College of Winterhold will let you back in with a slap on the wrist if you ever get yourself expelled.

[@tomm9963]

SHOR'S BONES, WHAT A MORNING TREAT

[@YismirGoldFingers]

By Yismirs Beard i agree!

[@WERTHIE4747]

😂 this is hysterical!! I'm at work falling out!!

[@MLPDethDealr32]

WHAT IN DAGON's name is that!

[@wwirelesswwizard]

42:40 "One thing I appreciate about this DLC is that this isn't a situation where we meet Serana and 'fix' her over the course of our journey. If this DLC ended with a Serana wedding, I think it would have done a disservice to her character. 'Skyrim' takes her character's trauma as seriously as a game like Skyrim is able to." Absolutely well said! I completely agree!

[@ThomasSchwietert]

To be fair though, the idea of marriage isnt to fix someone but to love them for who they are. I would appreciate if they added a sort of girlfriend mechanic where she basically says she wants to be with you but doesn’t wanna marry you. It makes more sense to me and also would fit the relationship that you have with her. I think it would be cooler to just have that intimate relationship while she still has her character stay relatively the same. You dont just get over the things she’s been through.

[@FeralCabbage]

Exactly. I’ve seen so many people wish for a Serana marriage and it just… isn’t right, at least not with the current part of Serana’s life. I’ve even seen a mod that completely revoices her to make her a lot more seductive as opposed to reclusive, which not only doesn’t make sense given her backstory, but just feels kinda gross all things considered.

[@NetoKruzer]

Playing Dawnguard as a werewolf feels a tiny little different... Harkon (and maybe Serana) comments about me having "Blood of a Beast" And fighting Harkon as a Werewolf feels epic. Two monsters of the night fighting for supremacy... because, there can be only one Apex Predator. Yes, fighting him without using the bow makes it longer, but having all the werewolf perks and rushing, and having Hircine Ring helps a lot.

[@lobselvith8]

Serana doesn't mention it but I purposefully wait until my Redoran becomes a werewolf because Harkon mentions it derisibly when you first encounter him and bring it up when he offers you his blood, like you said.

[@ItsDaKoolaidDude]

And then that slight reminder that during the Grey Host stuff from ESO, both Vampire Lords and Werewolves fought on the same side, including undead werewolves. granted i never did that dlc, but still, it does mention Volkihar's history around that point of time.

[@lindor6393]

Van Helsing ending

[@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842]

Looking at Isran's room in the light of your idea of similarity between Harkon and the leader of Dawnguard, how he pushed away his friends, and you mentioning how it would've been interesting to see their face off in the end, I had a fun idea, that in Isran in his moment of weakness could've turned to Hircine, which could give us another pop culture staple of action horror: vampires vs. werewolf conflict. It could've tied vampire and werewolf related quests together, dunno. Sadly, the companions questlines was horribly mistreated. His hunting trophies definitely remind me of Hircine. It's not necessarily a good idea for this story, just a thought I had.

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

honestly, if that was a thing, i would expect more characteration of the Silver Hands, i think they are the most mistreated then it comes to the Companions (yes i wanted to be werewolf hunter and bane of all daedra)

[@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842]

@@theprinceofawesomeness Yeah, the whole thing with Companions and Silver Hand needed more attention. Silver Hand are completely wasted in this questline. Bethesda is phoning it in more and more with each new game. People see it for what it could be... But it's hard to forgive Todd for what they ended up being.

[@traattatata7973]

@@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842 silver hands shoud not have been bandits, but rather some sort of order similar to vigilants of stendarr and dawnguard, but for werewolfs, and the dawnguard coud expand on companions questline and it all could tie in to the a free for all between companions, dawnguard, vampires and daedra hunters, with latter being able to bolster their numbers with people from companions and dawnguard who wouldn't agree to daedra worship that dawnguard could fall into, and companions who already were deep into it. alas bethesda cares too much about faction questlines being cut up into sterile chunks so one could consume them without impact on the rest of the game, instead of making an interesting and reactive story.

[@JoshuahClerice-ys3ye]

i would have loved to fight along side a werewolf version of isran it would have shown his dedication and obsession with defeating vampires taken a whole new level

[@jackbelmont4389]

I never thought of the paralelism between harkon and isran so yea it would have been interesting if he served Hircine, specially since he splintered from the vigilants of stendarr

[@PennTankerGuy]

It really does suck because, foundationally, taking on vampire hordes or becoming a part of the vampire horde is such a fun concept. I'm especially sad that the Companions didn't have a bigger role in this, with them being Werewolves.

[@snibz5957]

Seems to me the water is significant to Falmer as a form of echolocation - the Falmer are blind, so being around noisy things probably help them visualize their environment, and thus create safety.

[@plebisMaximus]

But it does also make sense they would find beauty in certain sounds, like suggested in the video. Much like the visual of a waterfall is stunning to us, it makes sense a culture of blind elves would find the sound an equally stunning experience.

[@johannesseyfried7933]

​@@plebisMaximus Which is nice. It makes the Falmer seem a tiny bit less monstrous and disgusting.

[@incanusolorin2607]

Or maybe living creatures need water to survive, and human (and, in fantasy, humanoid) settlements always tend to sprawl close to water

[@sneakykangarooman442]

These narrative critiques are fantastic! The Oblivion one was such a breath of fresh air amongst all the identical 7 hour "retrospectives" that regurgitate the plot of the game without actually analysing it or saying anything new or insightful.

[@Lucax97]

This is why I'm here. He has something to say in the fraction of the time it takes other youtubers to repeat the wiki

[@oneill6291]

Agreed. He always seems to have a a fair, refreshing and unique perspective that doesn't drag on forever.

[@512TheWolf512]

That's why you need to watch that 12-hour one instead. His approach of "how to make this garbage BETTER without outright remaking it from scratch" approach is quite appropriate

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@512TheWolf512I don’t think it’s garbage really.

[@littlemoth4956]

@@512TheWolf512 Neither Oblivion nor Skyrim are garbage.

[@allsuper9268]

I actually would have loved if you had the option to convince some of Harkon’s court to surrender with the knowledge of how self destructive his plan really is add to the them of vampires not being inherently evil and showing contrast between those who want what’s best for their people and those who just want power.

[@thatkn1ghtguy942]

I would love you 😍 ❤️ 😘

[@maverickdarkrath4780]

Honestly, imagine if other lesser vampires surrendered to the dawnguard just for sanctuarie against harkons forces who will surely wipe them out if he gets there way...would be good validation for isram to see the monsters he hunted feel fear for the threat he saw coming and since he knows the cure will hold the ultimatum of curing themselves for santuary.

[@tnttiger3079]

Per the Alduin 'Plot hole'- it's actually a popular theory that the dragon-sense is WHY he attacked Helgen in the first place. He was looking for the Dragonborn, but couldn't make them out from the chaos

[@cancerbucket2245]

And he was more or less just awoken so its understandable that he dosnet sense wich person is the dragonborn

[@WORTH-IT-MAN]

Cool how he busts through the wall and blasts you going up the stairs but misses by a couple secs

[@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842]

I'd left both options, but made giving part of your soul to Soul Cairne as something of a much greater consequence and risk (not annoying, but scary). For instance, inflicting you with ever worsening condition, that would require to spend more and more time at Soul Cairn to recover or sacrifice black soul gems to Soul Cairn to feed it human souls in your stead. An affliction that would've required "a cure for vampirism" level or a tougher quest to recover from or maybe even... another equal sacrifice. While making turning into a vampire an easy choice in comparison. And once you agree - appropriately showing that even at the caring hands of Serana, the process of taking a gift of Molag Bal is not a pleasant ride. And I think, the player should've woken up on the sacrificial slab of some kind by the altar, leaving more unsettling implications, while the moments leading before the transformation had Dragonborn read a humiliating oath and Harkon verbally abusing and degrading the player. Still, within Skyrim's saturday morning cartoon language limitations, but much creepier. Supplicating yourself to the "gift" Molag Bal is not heroic, noble or pleasant. It should make the character believably scarred, so it would make sense why most vampires use their newfound powers so cruelly, hedonistically, at the cost of lives and freedom of others.

[@colorpg152]

the developers were smart enough not to ruins the experience for people who just wanna be a vampire and not deal with that crap

[@eosofspades_357]

literally all of this is so good i am obsessed. you should have written dawnguard

[@sturm9087]

@@colorpg152right cause god forbid there be any consequences for any of the players actions in a role playing game. Cause “Decision making and risk reward consideration is hard”

[@colorpg152]

​@@sturm9087 I'm tired of you people trying to force your "moral" stances on others, if you need the game's world to punish people for disagreeing with you then your opinion sucks, also if you came to skyrim looking for dark souls level of difficulty then you came to the wrong place, and it makes no sense for harkon to do that since he wants to use the player much less his daedric prince since he like people who dominate not those who bow and since he would most certainly want a easy claim to the dragonborn's soul, you people are trampling all over the lore for cheap self-righteous moralism with no regard for the player's time or the character's backstories.

[@sturm9087]

@@colorpg152 dude you want to play as a monster that preys on humans in the night. In what world is that anything but morally evil? What kind of delusions are you having where becoming an actual undead bloodthirster should have no negative consequences? It sounds like maybe role playing games just aren’t your style if you don’t actually want to play a role/character. You must be a game journalist if any debuffs or downsides at all suddenly makes the game as tough as dark souls, theres already a very easy difficulty for you in the game. Cheap moralism? YOU WANT TO PLAY AN EVIL MONSTER AND SERVE A LITERAL FLESHEATING VAMPIRE LORD WITH A TORTURE CHAMBER IN HIS BEDROOM. Thats the least lore friendly thing I’ve ever heard of, worst its completely lacking even basic common sense. I don’t think you understand anything about the setting or fantasy in general tbh

[@bigfootfighter4132]

1:05:07 speculation and correction: Alduin does actually recognize the Dragonborn in Helgen. If you stand around long enough before choosing Ralof or Hadvar, Alduin will land behind you, trash talk you in the dragon language (he even calls you Dragonborn but scoffs at how weak and level 1 you are), before obliterating you. Also, it’s likely Alduin came to Helgen not on a whim, but because he detected a dragon was in Helgen. He is going around resurrecting dragons after all. He sensed a fellow dovah in Helgen and went there to resurrect them, only to stumble across the Dragonborn instead and inadvertently save your life. In a way, his abandonment of his duty to undo the world (in preference to enslaving it and lording over it instead) is his own undoing. Now this is much more speculative than that last bit but to me it makes the most sense. From Alduin’s perspective he just went from fighting atop the throat of the world to being teleported into the future in a matter of seconds. He has no interest in eating the world as people think, he’s just back to his juvenile antics of enslaving the world and ruling over it forever. Why do you think the graybeards aren’t much concerned about the idea that Alduin will devour the world? The end of the world is the will of Akatosh, especially when you consider the Aedra were essentially hoodwinked by Lorkhan into giving up their power to creating the world in the first place. I know that doesn’t really have much to do with Helgen but I thought it was fun theory and worth mentioning.

[@kiwiclover9486]

alduin trash talks you if you wait long enough? damn, i really need to stop speed running skyrim one of these days because im probably missing a lot

[@heatblayze]

I don't think the part about Alduin trash talking you and mentioning you being dragonborn is true. I just booted it up to take a look and his dialogue basically amounted to "Foolish mortals", "I will devour your souls", "Those who do not bow will be devoured", "This world is mine", etc. It kinda just seems like generic angry powerful dragon dialogue.

[@chrisdiokno5600]

TBF, Sanguinaris Vampiris in Skyrim has a lot less drawbacks then Poryphmic Hemophilia in Morrowind and Oblivion.

[@The_Yukki]

Sanguinare^. It is less of a drawback post dawnguard. And wasnt much of a drawback I found fed in vanilla. But hot damn did it get annoying when fast traveling to a city and everyone throws themselves at you because during the fast travel time passing you ticked over to stage4. It is also a weird name change... I get that sanguine is a shade of red and thus is used to describe blood... but perhaps they might have to consider the name given that one of the daedra that has seemingly nothing to do with vampirism is named... Sanguine, though in his case it is likely after the colour of wine given he is a prince of debauchery. Unless the intention is in fact to throw a hint at him in some sort of retcon?

[@chrisdiokno5600]

@@The_Yukki I mean Sanguinaire is a seperate strain of the disease than in Cyrodill, and in lore weve uad other Princes also connected with it, or its cure

[@The_Yukki]

@@chrisdiokno5600 I am not super up on details with the tiny details of tes lore, but I only recall molag bal being related to vampirism. That being said tes wasn't exactly strict with it's lore about vampires either. Daggerfall had no name for it outside of 'vampirism' which while people called disease in game, thecode itself did not treat like one cause it was not affected by resistance/immunity to it outside of lycanthropy. Morrowind introduced poriphyric hemophilia, then oblivion used the same one, but then skyrim had to change it, likely because bethesda thought players might not realise it's gonna change you into a vampire unless it had literally vampir in the name. Then there's also "Noxiphilic Sanguivoria" which was added in TESO, and to not punish the player super hard for adventuring during the day in an mmo... they just made it 'oh you don't get weaker in sun, but get stronger during night' strain that somehow is gone by the time of main titles?

[@chrisdiokno5600]

Fair point, but yeah, Clavicus has a connection with em somewhat, as he apparantly gave the Cyrodillic Vampyrum Order the ability to blend in@@The_Yukki

[@thezenithrage1006]

​@The_Yukki i think thats the vanilla the terrany of the sun. Weakening vampires and well a ANGRY MOB! Which is impressive. People wont fight a dragon but a vampire? KILL IT!

[@reaganeidemiller7132]

58:40 you are missing one thing, which causes me to have my character be turned in that moment; Serana isn't sure the soul trap will work. She's never done it before, it could kill you, it could fail to appease the cairn. In contrast, becoming a vampire is certain to succeed, a guarantee. To my mind, with the fate of the world at stake, the sacrifice to become a vampire in exchange for eliminating an extremely risky alternative is worthwhile. I think it'd be neat if each character you make in skyrim has a hidden seed baked into their save files, so that there's a chance Serana's soul trap idea won't work.

[@azzor4134]

But it is a *Behtesda* game so we know it will work.

[@littlemoth4956]

"so that there's a chance Serana's soul trap idea won't work." And what? Remove the choice for the player? Punish them by having them killed for making the wrong decision? That's far from neat.

[@reaganeidemiller7132]

@@littlemoth4956 as an easter egg, like a 1% chance; it'd be funny lmao

[@WORTH-IT-MAN]

@@reaganeidemiller7132excellent game design. What if you just had to carry some soul gems with you giving you a time limit to get through the soul cairn before the souls are all taken and it rips yours away which kills you sending you back to the start of the soul cairn

[@reaganeidemiller7132]

@@WORTH-IT-MAN that'd be cool; that or make it require something worse than vampirism, like several black soul gems

[@demonkiller8000]

The worst part about the Elder Scrolls games is that they give you enough story to expect satisfaction and catharsis, but doesnt usually provide that in the end

[@brandonhelcher3691]

If you actually go with Serana to Fort Dawnguard, Serana will stay back and Isran tells you to take her home. Sure there's still only one true choice, but the game at least accounts for the player trying something different.

[@azzor4134]

But you don't have a option to tell him about the Elder Scroll. In fact, he will still be pissed when you return to him and say AFTER THE FACT that you just handled an Elder Scroll to a bunch of vampires.

[@dremskเy]

​@@azzor4134, I can't blame him for that

[@azzor4134]

​@@dremskเyYes, you should blame Bethesda.

[@incelliousthewizard7883]

@@azzor4134 TBH they could have avoided that by wrapping the model of the Elder scroll in like a cloth and having Serana NOT immediately go "Yeah im carrying around like the most powerful item in the entire lore, no you can't have it, now take me back to my vampire castle, vampire hunter!" if it was played off more as a "take this random vampire back to her nest so we can figure out how to kill all of them/why they suddenly started becoming so active" and then revealed exactly what she had when harkon asks her if she has the scroll.

[@wwirelesswwizard]

12:05 Even as a Dawnguard, I felt compelled to return Serana to her home because she was the only vampire that didn't attack me on sight. She treated the Dragonborn with confusion, but civility, and I saw no reason not to help her, despite her being a vampire. (Side note, even if I could kill her, what the hell would I have done with the Elder Scroll, anyway? I learned the hard way that those things are damn near impossible to get rid of after the main DG quest is over.)

[@azzor4134]

For a start, you'd not let a gang of vampire take hold of an Elder Scroll. Doesn't matter at the end of the day because Serana manages to sneak out with it anyway. Ps. Urag is willing to buy your Elder Scrolls after they're no longer required.

[@mark5222]

The scene at the inner sanctum where there are frozen falmers with precious items surrounding the shrine of Auri-El makes me think that they were trying in their own way to worship Auri-El back. However, Vyrthur did not approve this action from his thralls so he froze them. This was also explained in a Reddit post.

[@santoven]

At the brink of the Soul Cairn, I thought they should have had a third option, a "Wild Card" like in FNV, where you defy both factions and carve out your own destiny.

[@jasper_the_ghost]

You expected… effort?! From Emil Pagliarulo?!?! 😂😂😂

[@santoven]

@@jasper_the_ghost First time playing, I had no idea who he was. Now, IYKYK. Someone should mod it in tho.

[@zzflare]

@@jasper_the_ghost yeah.... that guy is a joke of a person these days.

[@Enseeyar]

How would that work though? you either stopped the prophecy or you supported it. Third faction would do virtually the same

[@SuperBeals]

Criminally under-viewed YT channel! I don't always agree with some of the points you make but your clarity an presentation are superb and I can only imagine how long these take to make, keep up the amazing work!

[@Mikemetal12]

Awesome video, now that I'm listening the story of the old Dawnguard beign corrupted, it's such a missed opportunity to make Harkon the son of the old Jarl and the Volkihar vampires the remnants of the old dawnguard

[@NDNauthorgirlie]

You're giving me fanfic ideas

[@ZoeBateman]

You know what I really appreciate about the Dawnguard, as a joinable faction? When you complete the main story of the DLC, you don’t become the de-facto leader of the Dawnguard. iirc, it’s the only major faction in the game you don’t/can’t become the leader of at the end of the questline. In the base game, you can become the leader of every major faction (Head of the Blades, Thieves Guild Master, Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, Archmage of the College of Winterhold, Harbinger of the Companions) so to FINALLY have a faction in the game where the leader doesn’t just die or give up their position as a leader really shows Isran’s strength and confidence as a leader. In a weird way, it solidifies the DG as the most unique faction in the game, even compared to the volkihar vampires which you can become the leader of like every base game faction.

[@Lyraine1]

I love that in Serana Dialogue Add on it is mentioned that Serana used a spell on the Dragonborn which started to wear off after reaching Castle Volkihar. A small detail that makes a lot of sense when playing as Dawnguard.

[@zambekiller]

I remember my girlfriend crying over the fact she couldn't marry the vampire girl

[@a.noneofyourbusiness7844]

I always thought Alduin showed up at the beginning of the game because he noticed a Dovha in distress. But when Alduin got there he didn’t see anything so he just burnt the place down incase there were dragon bones beneath. And even then Alduin didn’t see anything so he just left. I never really thought Alduin just attacked Helgen for no reason.

[@CorvoFG]

Over the years, I must have listened to dozens of analytical essays on various games. The quality of analysis and explanation of your point places you in a very high tier amongst those. I don’t always agree with your assertions but your clear explanation of you PoV nevertheless leads me to respect your outcomes. Keep up this exceptional quality of work and I foresee your sub count growing considerably.

[@arnesieper8332]

one of skyrims general problems is that factions, people and generally everything just coexists. the few areas where they actually interact is either very tangentially (as with DB and TG) or faceless, as in no named characters except the main figureheads at the end. dawn guard stands out a bit, as the storyline is somewhat a clash between two factions, and you get to at least fight a few named people at some points. it is also one of the only impactful choices a player can make (the other two i can think of are the civil war and parthurnax after the main questline) but mostly, you never come into contact with anyone other than generic_enemy_no_5 or boring_meat_no_2. compare that to morrowind, where some factions where actually fighting, both politically and physically. if you ventured to deep into vivec city, you could find the fighters guild trying to raid a safehouse of the thieves guild, while some quests of the thieves focus on weakening the power of the cammona tong over the fighters guild, or defending themselves. if you want to progress past a certain point in one of those guilds, you have to make the choice to sack the other. or the villagerss that run in panic as soon as a corprus infectted comes near; although they are brave enough to fight atronachs with a dagger, they realise that corprus is to much for their little brains. the guards that speak in horror about that one time they had to venture behind the ghost gates... it feels as though the people LIVE in that world. they fight the land for their survival, growing crops in the ashes, hate cliffracers (who dosnt) and overall, they interact with each other in more than a superficial way. morrowind has so many quests that you cant do in the same playthrough as many quests involve eg a person dying that you would have needed for that quest. while most quests have only actual way to go, there exist a lot of quests that intermingle with each other. moreover, morrowind allows a player to fail. if you messed up your disguise when trying to fool your rival house with a password, your superior will get pissed, and you will miss that promotion, until you manage to make it up to a few powerful people. it gives you downtime to roam the world, instead of always pointing you to the next objective. if its skill and combat systems had held up better, id stil be playing it. the moment that skywind gets released, im not gonna have any sozial interaction for two months

[@aislinbellarosa6334]

In regards to a Dawnguard player becoming a vampire to enter the Soul Cairn, and the consequences (or lack thereof) there, I feel like most people miss a key detail regarding Falion's cure. To be fair I think Bethesda forgot it too though, so I can't exactly blame them. The cure requires a filled black soul gem. No one addresses it in the game, it feels like a basic fetch quest at the nearest bandit camp, but in lore that likely means one of two things; either you have to condemn a soul to the Soul Cairn, presumably as payment to the Ideal Masters so they'll restore your mortality, or it's an offering to Molag Bal, a soul to take your place in Coldharbour's eternal torture chambers. Without debating the morality of whether anyone in Skyrim deserves such a fate, I'm sure at least some people would argue that no one does. Thus, at least from the perspective of some heroic characters, getting cured would be an act of unspeakable evil and selfishness, trading someone else's life and soul for your own. This would play into expanded dialogue with the Dawnguard, where you not only defend your choice but can also defend staying a vampire; you can feed on consenting people, and even feeding on the unwilling doesn't have to be lethal, but getting cured requires condemning someone else to an eternity of suffering. Bethesda could have done this really well, making it a big moral decision where either option could be seen as the worse one (or even paint lycanthropy as the best option, since it cures vampirism without taking someone's soul), but instead we get black and white morality where getting cured is the unequivocally good option (and one you're railroaded into unless you mod the game or glitch through the door to Castle Volkihar), and the game glosses over the costs. Despite their... *questionable* recent decisions I love Bethesda, but they really dropped the ball here, and it bothers me that most people don't even realize by how much. Anyway, I really enjoyed the video, and just thought I'd add my two cents.

[@kbelflower]

If you beat Dawnguard, then Dragonborn, then Skyrim, you'll be dealing with the effects of each of the Time God's aspects in the order that they appear in creation myths. As in, you deal with Auriel and the Tyranny of the Sun, then Miraak and the fight between Akatosh's First and Last Dragonborn, and finally Alduin and the end of the world as we know it. It doesn't line up perfectly, but I kind of wonder if it were in some way intentional given that (from Legendary Edition onwards) you're more likely to encounter Dawnguard before Dragonborn, and the devs likely intended you to play them when you received them in the questline else they would've just placed them after Dragonslayer.

[@iamthehobo]

Look at the bright side, she may have left the continent but you've got that sweet sweet Twilight lore in your head forever

[@georgebegley1065]

I think that a lot of the problems in Bethesda story telling is convenience. They take away actual mechanical story telling like forcing you to be a vampire or having vampiric raids they forgo them so no player feel’s inconvenient, but by doing so they make everyone bored and uninterested

[@Jizzargo]

It would probably have been difficult to track but it would’ve been cool if vampires attacked locations you frequent so you’d have a good chance of stopping them or realizing what happened but not having half the non essential population just be gone

[@HerohammerStudios]

Sounds like a Morrowind dark brotherhood situation. Good chance it'd just end up being really annoying

[@zeroomega3781]

isn't that what it is pre-SE ?

[@JohnRStrachan]

Another excellent critique...would be really cool to see you tackle Morrowind, where a lot of the character development is either text-based or environmental, although I appreciate that it may be a lot harder to go through every instance of this in a game like that.

[@arnesieper8332]

upvote this comment, i want to see morrowind done

[@JohnRStrachan]

Thank you for the support we will get there@@arnesieper8332

[@entropic-decay]

On the Tyranny of the Sun, while this obviously isn't vanilla, I like to use a pair of mods that alter how vampires relate to the sun a bit - one makes being in the sun as a vampire actually cause the player to ignite into flames, also applying to NPC vampires; the other makes it so wearing armor that *fully* covers you from head to toe counts as being under cover regarding sun exposure. With this, the whole 'tyranny' of the sun becomes a bit more sympathetic, but also a bit more pathetic - random vampires outside of the court would likely be unable to get armor made that would shield them from the sun's radiance, but those in the court that are after it basically just want to be able to go out in the day in their finery instead of covered in plate.

[@shadowstrider5033]

Why would vampires outside the court be unable to get it other than gameplay restriction since they have some mind control abilities that they could use to make some thralls get it for them? Before Dawnguard generic vampires also used to occasionally have heavy armor cuirass and boots, even orcish armor. Dawnguard got rid of all of that and for some reason gave them the same armor even though they aren't supposed to be part of the same court and made them all ugly even though some of them are supposed to hide among mortals (with one exception in morthal).

[@Poopaloony]

I never comment on KZbin videos, but I just wanted to say that these videos are incredibly well written and detailed. I would love to hear your analysis of Enderal as well!

[@absolutelyanxious3039]

Just wanted to let you know that the cut at 11:07 actually made my chest hurt from laughing. I don’t know how much effort this took from a video editing perspective, but it was worth it.

[@SkyrimExplorer]

I guess this cut wasn't difficult at all from a technical point of view. Still brilliant from creative one. And very good.

[@Jake-dp8tp]

1:05:07 I watched your previous video about Skyrim's main quest and it got me thinking generally about Alduin and his return. The initial roar we hear off in the distance is very likely Alduin reappearing from the time wound at the Throat of the World. I get why he would be angry and attack whatever he comes in contact with and he definitely needed to let off some steam after being defeated the first time, but why go to Helgen specifically? There are plenty of other towns nearby and destroying Whiterun would be trivial at this point for him given there would be no preparation whatsoever. I think Alduin came to Helgen because he felt the dragonborn's presence, dropped down and saw no dragon, then flew into a rage destroying everything. It would also explain why he would 1) send Mirmulnir to attack Whiterun (the closest major city that the Dragonborn could flee to) and 2) is not surprised at all of the Dragonborn's presence in Kynesgrove and seemingly recognizes the Dragonborn's presence whether the character is undetected sneaking or not. Mostly just food for thought and likely not Bethesda's intention, but it's definitely my new headcanon for the Helgen attack.

[@icerain381]

Context for the twin dragon fight, I *believe* that it may be triggered by the wordwall, gameplay wise, as the said word of power is related to an achievement.

[@Snow-sx5ev]

Hey I just wanted to congratulate you on how polished these videos are. You've done so much that a lot of channels never achieve in a record amount of time. These videos are fantastic and I appreciate the effort put into them.

[@DukeofWhales]

That’s so nice, thank you!

[@solidskullz5736]

I’ve always had a different interpretation of vampires in the elder scrolls than that of other media. Elder scrolls vampires are more primal and bestial in nature. Vampirism starts out as a disease and when the person is fully transformed their eyes change color, they’re face looks different, and many of them live in caves or in other parts of the wilderness. Vampires are often depicted as seductive and easily blend in with normal humans, but they’re still predators and I believe that the version that we see in the world of elder scrolls are meant to focus more on that predatory nature

[@Angel-ub8dw]

As someone who loves video essays and has a hyperfixation on Skyrim since HS, I LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS. I'm so glad yt recommended me your video!!! I hope you continue to do more because I really like your way of articulating your thoughts!!!

[@GelatinSkeleton]

your voice is very soothing and your videos are really nice to put on when i’m struggling with a migraine and/or a panic attack. i haven’t had the chance to comment on any of your videos before even though i’ve seen a bunch and just really wanted you to know that you’re doing a great job and it’s obvious how much you care about what you’re talking about and how deeply you love video essays and have a real depth of understanding of how they work as a medium. you’re doing amazing ❤

[@KateSparkes]

I just discovered your channel last week and have loved every video. You’re the reason I spent my weekend playing Skyrim. It was wonderful, and now I can’t wait to play through this expansion again soon. Thank you for the time and effort you put into these videos!

[@John-Smith93]

You actually can try to bring Serana to Isran first, but she'll feel hesitant to enter the fortress and Isran will tell you to bring her to Harkon to find out what's going on. Loved your video btw, just wanted to point this out, that part of the storyline is thought through too.

[@El_Rey_247]

Having never really considered Skyrim from a narrative analysis perspective, this video is a delight, and I'll have to go back and watch the one for the base game. I especially like how the video addresses the multiple major routes and states which one seems more narratively interesting (or has more interesting missed opportunities. I'm also really looking forward to hearing about Dragonborn.

[@alsaiduq4363]

I think one big missing point is that you can bring Serana back to Dawnguard castle and changes some of the dialogue

[@azzor4134]

You're talking right after you meet Serana? You can not bring her per se, because she refuses to go in. She stays outside. And the dialogue option you get with Isran is stupid because you can't mention the Elder Scroll.

[@chel_owl]

Hell yea, great timing dude. love your videos and narrative focused lens

[@unfilthy]

I just started watching an older video of yours after finishing this one, and had to stop and come back here to compliment you on your great job controlling (or altering? I'm not sure how it's done) your vocal fry. It's noticeable and appreciated, and I'm guessing you don't get enough recognition for working on it, so well done to you.

[@grandpapancake9462]

I had to pause this video and go back and watch the one that covers Skyrim, cause I was absolutely enjoying just the first 30 minutes of this that I had to make sure any callbacks you made I understood. Wonderful video!

[@bigboi8028]

I just realised at the end of Act one when Isran tests his former friends that he probably only decided on that after Serana showed up, with him becoming more paranoid about the fact that a Vampire could get past him, especially when you consider that he didn't do this test on the Dragonborn and Agmaer

[@Madhattersinjeans]

I enjoy your views of this series. A lot of other essays on Skyrim seem to hyper focus on the gameplay or physical aspects of the game compared to previous titles. But you actually take the time to try and figure out the narrative in the game itself. And in a game series all about the story that is what is most important.

[@christopherbrown6322]

One thing that you missed in Act I is that you do actually have the option to return to Fort Dawnguard with Serana before you take her home. You can report what happened to Isran and, while I forget his exact logic, he will agree that taking her back to Castle Volkahar is the best course of action.

[@joshuapatrick682]

0:25 imagine being that poor guy, you make it to the afterlife of your people. It’s real! And you get to spend eternity basking in it’s pleasure, but then you get snatched up in the fog and eaten, all because the Hero was 5 minutes too slow to start the process of cleansing this realm.

[@r.m.7471]

I‘m loving these critiques, this one especially. Bringing in literary comparisons at well placed times adds a nice touch and you’ve made me want to replay dawnguard all over again. I think it’s very rare to see such good character analysis of Serana with well placed criticism of her and others‘ writing. Definitely adding this video to my comfort video essay playlist! Very excited for a Dragonborn dlc video!

[@bravoravenofpestilence1161]

i was a werewolf and part of the dawnguard when meeting Harkon and out of curiosity i made a save before entering the castle and chose to see what being a vampire was like. i hated it. so i went back to the save and stayed as a vampire hunting werewolf. companions gang rise up

[@natebush8217]

For Kodlak!!! 🐺 ✊️

[@scrittle]

True. I immediately went to help the Dawnguard and wondered if the vampire route was any different. I soon learnt both quests are nearly the exact same past Isran, except Serana speaks to you much less. As such, the vampire route is tedious until act 3.

[@Sundome]

I don't usually comment on any videos, but I just wanted to say I found your channel ~3 days ago due to being on another Skyrim binge and I've watched every video since. I really enjoy your work and look forward to whatever else you put out in the future! It's extremely relaxing and you make a lot of great points as well as observations, and I enjoy when you callback to stories, folktales, etc. which also can server as a learning experience! Also your voice I've found is really relaxing!! I've noticed you've said in some other videos it might not be but I think it's great and really compliments your writing work. Thanks for the videos and looking forward to more :)

[@oofboi9048]

I think that what is really meant by the line "your kind are a blight on this world" right before the final fight with Harkon isn't meant in the way of vampires, but in the way of one who always strives for the "greater good" of a certain cause. Another example of this to back my point up is Delphine and her ideal that all dragons should die, and this (hopefully) leads to a split between the Dragonborn and her when Parthunax comes into the picture. Serana explains it herself in this same conversation, that in pursuit of this goal he has caused irepreiable harm to other vampires and their whole clan, at the end of the questline, all that remains of the Volkihar clan are Valerica and Serana herself. Harkons pursuit of power and the "greater good" for all vampires has only caused the downfall of the entire clan, and his own death.

[@j-skullz]

@@georgemurdock7670 go away Delphine no one likes you

[@j-skullz]

ooh I love the parallel between Isran and Delphine, a better story would've used this in some way I feel

[@eroscracy9292]

I discovered your channel and critiques lately and I simply fell in love with your content. Please, keep being my main screen through long nights

[@TheThingInMySink]

Also, if you want to see Skyrim characters be characters, then maybe check out Enderal if you haven't already, it's quite a refreshing take on what a Bethesda RPG could be.

[@TheGeem1]

Enderal is pretty much its own game and so much better than skyrim in every way.

[@jacksmythe2187]

11:50 You can actually bring Serana ro Fort Dawnguard at this point (you might bring that up later, sorry if so). She refuses to follow you into the Fort and upon telling Isran what you found, he tells you to go along with what she wants to figure out the vampire plan. Very clumsy railroading and a kinda shitty plan on his part, but it does at least give a Dawnguard loyalist a reason to go with it. Not having Serana obviously be a vampire would've made the intro flow a lot better imo, making you or Isran going along with her request make more sense

[@azzor4134]

But you can not tell Isran about the Elder Scroll. The writers could not come up with a compelling reason for Isran to allow you to handle an Elder Scroll to a gang of vampires, so they chose the easy option: omission. That, and I bet they were short on time. I reckon you would not be able to join the Dawnguard in the first drafts of the questline. And Dawnguard has some cut content involving the Vigilants of Stendarr and the secret underground caves in Fort Dawnguard.

[@jacksmythe2187]

@@azzor4134 I forgot you can't mention the Elder Scroll, you're right. Maybe the original plan was for the Dawnguard to come up after the hand off, ie rescue Serana after hearing about the attack on the Vigilantes radiantly, discover she's a vampire at the castle, then either join or don't and hear about the Dawnguard, starting their questline

[@LeglessCatMonster]

I love these videos. The discussion, the outside sources, the humor, all either so interesting to watch attentively or so soothing to fall asleep to. Peak 👌🏼

[@TheoPhysics495]

Your commentary/critique videos are my favourite on youtube 😊

[@MCPunk55]

I understand why Serana is not marriable but I am also thankful mods get around that. Especially Serana Dialogue Add-on. She confronts her trauma. That's good character development.

[@ZMCFERON]

Friend-zoning the Bethesda-chosen is hilarious self-awareness on the writer. Thousand year old vampire girl tells the player "No." is classic.

[@MCPunk55]

Yes. That triggered a lot of people, I'm sure. Even if it made sense lorewise. @@ZMCFERON

[@plaguebf6632]

your channel is so underrated, the elder scrolls is one of my favourite franchises (for better or worse) and im so glad to see a channel looking at the narrative side of it, especially one so engaging and well researched. would really love to hear you do the side/faction quests in skyrim at some point, or your thoughts on other games

[@CharoGaming]

It feels so nice to hear someone put into words the wierd details that weirded me out while playing all those years ago

[@CH4R10T_TV]

1:04:49 I never knew Durnehviir said this to the Dragonborn if they don't know they're the Dragonborn yet, but I also don't think it creates a plothole with Alduin; one popular interpretation of why Alduin attacks Helgen in the first place is that he re-emerges from the time wound and flies to the closest living dragon who isn't Paarthurnax: you. Once he arrives in Helgen, he finds only mortals, so he unleashes his frustration on Imperials, Stormcloaks and civilians alike. When Alduin greets the Dragonborn in Kynesgrove, he speaks to the Dragonborn as if he already knows them, as if he was even expecting them, which would make sense if the whole reason he was so furious at Helgen -- when else does Alduin attack civilian settlements himself? -- was that he had been disappointed by our presence. As opposed to a plothole, this DLC actually offers some interesting retroactive characterization for Alduin.

[@gergokerekes4550]

wow. this was a pretty good video man. really well put together and explained. it was fun spending with time back in skyrim. I will keep waiting for more.

[@mushroomGdog77]

34:11 having 100 stealth makes this mission funner the two vampires will start and finish Monologue as soon as you open the door as along as you stay hidden they will just stand there a looking dumb at a open door! then just "walk"/roll behind them in stealth to backstab them

[@Gibblard]

I could be wrong, but I think the reason the vampires attack you when you transform at 32:20 is that when you transform you shoot blood everywhere which is technically an attack that dealt damage to surrounding NPCs.

[@SerkeysTV]

I always start with the dawnguard on my playthroughs. Harkon has always seemed like a season one villain as apposed to season 2 mirrak and the finale we get through alduin (i also use nolvus ascension so my games always pretty)

[@Seallussus]

This is easily one of the best Skyrim story analysis videos I saw on youtube. I'm happy that the algorithm suggested it to me.

[@ShizzyMcCreepy]

1:05:14 I think this is why Alduin was there in Helgen to begin with. He was looking for dragons to both resurrect and recruit, he likely sensed the Dragonborn's soul and assumed there was a dragon present only to find nothing and decided to do a little trolling

[@TheMegaOrigin]

What an incredible gem of a channel you have here. I look forward to seeing it blow up.

[@sameisenhower9712]

1:05 What if Alduin had sensed the dragonborn's soul and his intuition is what brought him to Helgen to begin with? To bring a dragon soul back to life again, but he lost it when we had escaped. This could also explain why Alduin left at the same time we escaped through the cave with Hadvar/Ralof.

[@hyperfreeze2714]

I'll slightly disagree on the Ancestor Glade take. It being different is exactly what makes it gorgeous, because of what its different FROM. Outside, albeit a gorgeous view of the snow swept Skyrim below, the wind and snow giving the intended effect of it being freezing. Gorgeous, but freezing and dangerous. Inside, the Glade's more lively atmosphere contrasts, its clearly warm in here. The sun shines through, as if single-handedly thawing the cave. The trees are healthy, flowers can bloom, and at night you could probably just sleep in here with minimal cover. By itself, its probably not much, but the contrast really enhances it

[@juju66792]

Gosh I'm so happy I stumbled across your channel! You're doing wonderful work my guy, im excited to see you keep it up!😁

[@birdmandan9456]

So this showed up in my recommendations yesterday, checked it out and was blown away, binged the oblivion and skyrim videos today as well, looking forward to your future work

[@skycatlive1576]

I liked what you said about how the game itself is "so damn easy to love" it has a magic, when you spoke metaphorically, it moved me

[@Charles-In-Charge]

After playing through Dawnguard twice, once for each path, I’ve never felt the desire to replay it during dozens of Skyrim games since. I finally understand why, thank you.

[@dapperskull8327]

Yesss another narrative critique video I'm excited

[@RockR277]

It is _such_ a shame that they don't explore the Dawnguard path vampire transformation. Even if you just got a few roleplay dialogue options that ultimately fail to convince your allies, the very option to talk about it would be interesting. And imagine if, upon learning what the the cure requires, you could return and say that you refuse to use another intelligent being's soul for your own sake, especially after having seen the Soul Cairn. That would be cool and could reasonably convince them to give you a chance.

[@klawzilla]

Can’t wait to see this channel grow

[@yodamoda123]

This is actually one of the best videos I've seen in a while. Thank you. Would love a Dragonborn DLC one

[@manz7860]

Doesnt take 2 hours to say dawnguard sucks and is non sensible.

[@josephrichards4618]

11:47 You can in fact take her back to the Dawnguard HQ and even tell Isran about her. Isran will then tell you to play along with Serana's request to take her back home so you can learn more about her family and what they're up to.