DUNE 2: The pinnacle of modern sci-fi cinema | Fremen, faith and false prophets - Nerd Legion Ep. 22

Denis Villeneuve's Dune Part Two burst onto the screen in 2024 to an excellent reception, and Nerd Legion also gives plaudits to this wonderful film. Monte and DoA have an in-depth discussion on changes from the books, the success of streamlining the story for film, the wonderful casting, and fulfilling character arcs. While Dune Part One may have been a bit rushed and flawed, the second movie dives into the world of the Fremen and is a much more complete thematic exploration that takes time with the central characters. We certainly recommend seeing this film in the theater while you have the opportunity!
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Editing by Adanion
Art by Atantalas
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0:00:00 - Intro and discussing previous iterations of Dune, such as Jodorowsky's Dune
0:10:10 - How did we like Villeneuve's Dune Part 1 and how does it change the books?
0:20:10 - Themes of the manipulative power of prophets and the pitfalls of fanaticism in Dune
0:27:28 - Comparing Dune to the sub-par sci-fi and Marvel content that has been released recently
0:42:00 - The strengths of the Fremen plot arc
0:45:55 - The strong casting aside from Christopher Walken and excellent character development
1:03:30 - Discussing the future of the Dune universe on film and the effect of the score
1:08:20 - Changes from the Dune book and final thoughts
#dunepart2
#lastfreenation
#podcast

[@Blacktimus]

The FourPlay announcement is great, one of my favourite working directors

[@christopherstrickland1745]

It´s been great seeing him and Nolan ascending Hollywood.

[@scouthatesrainbows]

... now give me Thorin's review of Dune 2 😏

[@WasntmeNed]

Its coming on his thorins side channel.

[@scouthatesrainbows]

@@WasntmeNed I know, I just think it's funny because from what I've heard he greatly dislikes it (or at least thinks it's heavily flawed and cynically made and honestly just isn't weird enough blah blah etc)

[@KnarfStein]

​@@scouthatesrainbows "Cynically made." If Villeneuve is a cynical opportunist with respect to Dune, then there're no true fans, LOL.

[@scouthatesrainbows]

@@KnarfStein Hey, that's what Thorin said not me 🤷. If I had to guess his more expanded opinion in regards to that (as I've only gotten small bits and pieces from watching his recent ama) he probably feels that Villeneuve deliberately left certain aspects of the books out not necessarily for time restraints, but perhaps for the purposes of streamlining and simplifying the story of Dune such that it would be palatable to a more general audience. As a result, the movies may contain the "essence" of Dune, but it lacks the rich depth of the books, hence why he's recommended the early 2000s tv series as an alternative. Now, I haven't read the books, so I couldn't tell you how much was left out and if some of what was omitted was indeed crucial to the ethos of the story. But what I will say from just my experience watching Villeneuve's films is that he (at least in my opinion) has a tendency to feel a bit cold in regards to his filmmaking. For sure his movies on an aesthetic level are consistently beautiful, and in particular he seems to pay great attention to visceral and enveloping sound design which is immediately noticeable in Dune 2. But in terms of character and story, there's a certain emptiness and inhuman quality to how he directs his actors. It's why it was such a breath of fresh air to see Javier Bardem's character Stilgar in this film. In a world of what feels like overly pensive and calculating characters, Stilgar brings out a human warmth and tenderness that I feel is so rarely found in these films. So, I don't think Villeneuve is cynical per se, but I can see that he can perhaps overly streamline certain aspects and can perhaps leave you a bit wanting when it comes to emotional resonance to his characters. Personally I've seen Dune 2 three times lmao. One of the best movies I've seen in a while. But I can see reasons why Thorin may have dislike it.

[@rynejones8513]

@@scouthatesrainbows it was a pretty shit movie. i thought that part 2 would be more interesting and that part 1 ended with nothing happening because they saved it all for part 2, but no nothing happened in part 2 either.

[@FMD-FullMetalDragon]

The last time we got movies that was given this level of preparation, detail and care was Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy in the early 00s. Maybe you guys could someday do an episode of Nerd Legion about the LotR trilogy.

[@grimzzyhunt6998]

You are doing the LOTR movies a huge disservice to compare them to this adaptation of Dune

[@johnnycamine]

i liked christopher walken as the emperor because it made the emperor seem weak and relatively unimportant compared to the more powerful groups around him, like he was just some random old guy.

[@deeepdale]

hes not a random guy tho since he just acts like christopher walken

[@raymonds8354]

In “Dune 2”, I saw the 1970s and early 1980s Oscar-winning Christopher Walken. Who beat other legends Bruce Dern and John Hurt for the Oscar in his tragic role in Best Picture “The Deer Hunter”. He and Javier Bardem are the only ones in “Dune 2” who have won acting Oscars. Walken portrays the Emperor as an old, past his prime, weakened ruler, with some melancholy. His treacherous killing of Duke Leto shows his cowardice and jealousy as well. There is a risk that a major performer who is so recognizable are judged in a film as “just being themselves”. And that would also include say Zendaya. But as a legend with star power, Walken graces this movie. Denis Villeneuve advised him that this Emperor at this point in his reign is almost only respected because he holds the position. Not because he is perceived as a strongman anymore…

[@KnarfStein]

9:16 No. If you look closely at when the Baron's and Margot's teeth, they're white. So that means F.R. and his concubines dyed their teeth black. 32:53 And that's why films of this calibre are so difficult to make. To make a film at a reasonable budget, be flawlessly technically, and have great actors working seamlessly in it, you need a director with the discipline of making indie films (which include meticulous planning to maximise efficiency), technical prowess, artistic sensibilities, great attitude to attract talent, and industry respect to pull it off. Denis Villeneuve is such a person in this rarified class.

[@cowboyevan]

A cool detail i noticed is that the undrugged Atreides slave is played by the person who choreographed the sword fighting scenes in part 1 and part 2 and taught the actors how to fight with swords. Was very cool that he got a role in the movie and it was the perfect role.

[@selena___]

Cool analysis! Javier was indeed awesome. Thank you for explaining what the water of life is. I was wondering about the ancestor possession part.

[@Gronmin]

Me and my friends missed the first minute of the movie, and when Christopher Walken showed up later in the movie it was hilarious actually a great moment of levity that broke the tension and just the right time. But I agree that role should have been better cast. I think Jason Mamoa did well in the first Dune movie, since he is playing the role with a reduced story around it. I think him showing the friendship he has with Paul etc worked really well.

[@raymonds8354]

I really like Christopher Walken in this film, which I have seen several times. Being of an earlier generation, I still see Christopher Walken as the Oscar winner from the 70s (in Best Picture “The Deer Hunter”, beating other legends like Bruce Dern and John Hurt). Christopher Walken is not just “being Christopher Walken” in this film. (BTW, he and Javier Bardem are the only Oscar winners for acting in this film.) His performance in “Dune 2” is subdued, not exaggerated-no mustache twirling and no “Walkenisms”. He portrays the Emperor as a weakened ruler, past his prime. With some melancholy. Walken is a deserved Oscar-awarded actor, a pro, and a legend. Within limited screen time, he graces “Dune 2” as a good member of an ensemble team-with stardom, class, and dignity. A cinema king playing a king. Also recall back in the day Walken’s dance in Fatboy Slim’s “Weapon of Choice”. The song says, “walk without rhythm and it won't attract the worm”-pretty much predicting his future association with “Dune 2”!!! Walken is also a real badass in the 1980 mercernaries movie “The Dogs of War”. And in crime films like “King of New York”…

[@RileyBruce_]

great review!! looking forward to the Denis Villeneuve arc

[@derekwilliams9477]

My absolute favorite part of dune 2 was the harkonin home world that infrared shooting technique was stunning it blew me away in the theater. These movies have given me the final push to actually read the books, after watching thorin and you monte talk about reading them.

[@kamallewis-gopie6956]

I watched this last night. Perfect timing 😊. Great movie.

[@roller98]

My biggest issue with this adaptation is still what they did to Kynes, I will never understand the decision of having to genderswap Kynes it made absolutely no sense at all, it also seems like Chani in this adaptation isn’t related to Kynes which is absolutely stupid, plus I am just not a fan of Zendaya as an actor, thought Chani should’ve been played by someone else, compared to Chalamet who was pitch perfect for this role and looks exactly like how I’ve always imagined a 15 year old Paul Atreides should’ve looked like. And please for the love of god recast Duncan Idaho man 😭😭😭 how can they cast such a talentless bum in this role.

[@kanoho2803]

This is the dumbest take I’ve ever seen. Zendaya was fantastic. Sounds like your biased opinion on her overshadowed her performance. Idiot

[@Gronmin]

I'd be into the prediction video, that sounds like a lot of fun

[@Tlcampbelljr1]

Having watched both movies, in theaters and at home, while also have read all of Herbert’s books I firmly believe that in this medium these movies are the best that we will get for many years to come. If you want more from these movies, become a director and convince a studio to make a mini series or develop the attention span to read the books. We are lucky to have so much support for Dune as an IP in the zeitgeist. Is it perfect? No, not even close. Should we be thankful that it exists in our modern era as an adaptation? I think so. I don’t mind people debating on quality but damn, it feels like some people are crippling themselves from enjoying good content or, maybe I’m just getting old and complacent.

[@Ascarion47]

In terms of looks, it's hard to beat the modern adaptation, but in terms of story, I think the adaptation from 2000 is still unbeaten.

[@Maya_Ruinz]

Personally loved both movies I’m still a little confused about people not liking the first movie if they have read the books because literally it follows the books pretty closely. There is no scene in the arboretum, no dinner scene with all the houses and many of the scenes on Arrakis were all from the military council scene in the book just taking place physically rather then dumped in a discussion. 12:48 You don’t need to know what the rotational speed of Mars is to have a movie about Mars, same with you don’t need to know how warp speed works in Star Trek to enjoy the voyages of the starship Enterprise. All that information is nerd stuff, the casual viewer just needs to know that there are houses that fight each other, Paul and House Atreides are rising and the Harkonnens are working with the emperor to kill them. Paul has visions of the future and will become the leader of the desert Fremen to get revenge… done. Everything else is just space magic that can be learned in the books if you want to.

[@Humanipathic]

This was the most Un Christopher Walken he’s ever been. Very subtle. Didn’t take me out of it all. Nothin like the comedic impression you and your ppl do of him. Good casting. Course Butler was phenomenal and Timothee killls it esp at end. Taking ownership.

[@NoLegacyLeft]

I agree that the Emperor should have been cast differently. I've always been a fan of Charles Dance, and I think he would have been great in the role. Everyone else in the cast killed it. Is there a story from the Harkonnens side ? It would be interesting to see Feyd Rautha's development and story on film.

[@Gronmin]

My one comment with the looks are the amount the actors have the stillsuits on when in the desert a very minor thing that was probably made so you could see the actors emotions more etc. But also the I would have wanted the shields to be slightly visible when not being hit like with a very small blue hue or something

[@Maduc]

I havent read the books but i know a bit about the world background, but I wasnt bothered at all in pt 1 about no explanation on computers or guns or whatever. Its a fantasy story, we dont need an explanation on why its different from ours. If you need an explanation for everything sci-fi is not for you

[@silvafangtv]

I personally dont see the hype around Zendaya at all, I feel she has the Kristen Stewart problem where she has the same face ALL the time, I dont see a range for her or anything, would love to be proven wrong tho

[@qwkolds5887]

Charles Dance would have been a great emperor instead

[@christopherstrickland1745]

Right? He´s old like Walken but he still has a very commanding presence. Walken looked feeble and weak.

[@DaTankkBusta]

Hoping someone is gonna try out a movie or series adaptation of Hyperion by Dan Simmons 🙏🙏

[@hvitekristesdod]

Even though not every performance was perfect, this is still my new favourite film

[@TheOmegaXXI]

MONTE IS A BATTLETECH NERD!?!? Didn’t think it was possible for him to be more awesome!!!

[@sjoerddz]

Spoilers, but weren't Pauls and his sons actions necessary in the end to preserve humanity making him not evil but more of a tragic hero?

[@AnarresDuelyst]

Really didnt like how they minimized so much of the spiritual aspects of pauls transformation, i know there's limited screentime but still would have liked to see that be more developed. Jessica's transformation is also a bit left to the side

[@ryderthibault8893]

Soooo i know nothing of dune but the navigators and war against ai sounds VERY 40k what came first or did both worlds come form a idea previous to both of them that i don’t know of

[@issamoniker]

Dune came first and 40k was heavily inspired by it

[@chrisdrakes2332]

I would have liked Dune 2 to be a longer format 2 parter or even a series. The only problem with the series is that I dont believe they would have given it the production quality it deserves. They would have spent 20 minutes easing in to each episode.

[@Selendeki]

I just watched it, thought it was great

[@g1tno]

personally i totally disagree with DoA's take on zendaya, she was basically playing Mary Jane playing Chani to me

[@g1tno]

also, Paul as Mau'dib IS a benefactor to the fremen cause, even though they are used as a tool as he does foster an environment of water and prosperity for thousands of years

[@josephadcock7449]

Completely agree, also in the books Paul never mentions revenge (to my recollection) but certainly not to the degree as he does to his mother in the movie

[@josephadcock7449]

Zendaya in my opinion acts like she’s better than everyone in most roles I’ve personally seen her in and he love for Paul was never believable in this movie to me

[@g1tno]

@@josephadcock7449 i agree, and she is continually undermining Paul, even when it seems unnecessary

[@LordKeram]

I feel the exact same. Idk what the obsession Hollywood has with Zendaya, but they need to stop. She can't act.

[@Tlcampbelljr1]

Please review JJK 🙏🏼

[@MunkVodka]

I don't understood the praise for Zendaya. She is a terrible actress and how they changed the character of Chani and made her so bland compared to the books is terrible. I don't understand why people like it. It's truly mindbogglingly. The movie is an experience. Visuals, Aesthetics and sound. But I'm sorry the books tell a more interesting story and a more coherent one as well.

[@flowerpower32]

Shocker that you don't like a black actor

[@MunkVodka]

@@flowerpower32 Yeah you got me there chief. Definitely that. Nothing with being an average actress. Fuck me the internet made people retarded.

[@juliouribe880]

Thank you for doing this. Probably gonna watch it again appreciating Chani's perspective. Like Paul, I too got very excited about his rise and quest for power.

[@Chickennuggetexpress]

I strongly disagree on the mini series take

[@astar2394]

I didn't read the book and didn't like Part One as it felt too slow with a lack of plot and it just thrust the viewer into the world. Part Two however, yeah, it was pretty great.

[@jameswright21]

I wish they had included Hasimir Fenring. One of my favourite moments in the book is when he stands aside, it just adds something to Paul's ascension. Can't imagine it would have taken up much time to show that little subplot.

[@guillermo9631]

Lynch's version is a travesty due to studio interference. The most Lynchian parts of the film are with the Harkonnens. The sets and costumes were really groundbreaking but the FX were dodgy at best. The acting for the most part was stiff with the Harkonnens being the exception. I think the gom jabbar scene is better than Denis' version. Alia comes off as ridiculous in this version. The score is pretty damn good! The Fremen are deadly dull- Thank God Denis rectified this!

[@macoveisilviu1607]

how about Kyle MacLachlan as the Emperor?

[@flowerpower32]

Movie adaptations never are faithful to books as long as the messages/themes are same also that's why there's the book

[@kevinc8955]

10 episode miniseries means no Denis (who is a massive theater and imax fan) so then it ends up as just another schlocky mid sci-fi series on a steaming pile of Netflix shows of the same type. HARD PASS. Bad take.

[@raymondcpl]

Agree. Next they want to do something mind-boggling like use appendices to make a bloated mini-series. Oh wait. LOTR:ROP 😂😂

[@Riggered]

banger

[@mathewsloat6848]

30 Year old books? DOA, try 60 years!

[@KristiLEvans1]

I was disappointed in Walken

[@reysolo3672]

❤❤❤❤

[@CountCocofang]

Oh, no ... they are starting to milk it. Now it's just a matter of time until they desecrate the Dune IP.

[@Hornnnnnn]

Walken was embarrassingly bad

[@grimzzyhunt6998]

Man, i wish your guest was a bit more knowledagble about Dune and the movies

[@theroyal908]

Geez Monte you can't just spoil the books and then say spoilers after it. That spoiler tag after the spoiling doesn't help.

[@lance715701]

No need for explanation. People will research the lore

[@mysticmouse7261]

Movie book alignment discussions are boring. Duh books are a completely different medium from movies. Critiquing how the story's told one to one is not smart - artistically illiterate.

[@2013_Shox]

This film was a huge disappointment after the first. Fremen being non-religious with the added North/South divide made Stilgars character seem unhinged. His character is incredibly measured and they made him seem silly by comparison to the others around him. Visually, sets, score, etc were all excellent but the tone was completely off and left a poor taste in my mouth.

[@doom7872]

Dune is a movie length cologne commercial.

[@Evan2768]

I was under the impression that there would be a Dune part 3 until about 20 minutes from the end of the film. I felt like the section between Paul drinking the water of life, and him becoming emperor was rushed. Paul was gaining insights, foresight, ascending as a spiritual leader. Skip forward 20 minutes and they've won the holy war and he's the emperor...

[@Avaloneer1]

The holy war is yet to come and the ending is setting it up

[@roller98]

Dennis has said he will do Dune Messiah.

[@Evan2768]

@@Avaloneer1 my point is that he went from convincing the southern Fremen and becoming a spiritual leader, to emperor of the universe within 15 minutes of screen time. Is this not valid?

[@anthonypasquarelli6420]

That’s how it is in the book and it’s intentional

[@Evan2768]

@@anthonypasquarelli6420 ok interesting