Dune: Spoiler-free & Spoiler Review | 2 To Ramble

[@randomknowledgeperson2872]

i think another interesting point about Tolkien and Herbert is that they both fought in a world war but Tolkien fought in WW1 while Herbert fought in WW2. so the differences in those wars really changed their mindsets: After WW1 people wanted escapism, after WW2 people wanted answers. after WW1 people wanted yo find a way to forget the horrors they saw, but after WW2 people wanted to find out how something so horrific could happen.

[@2ToRamble]

Love this input - didnt think of it like this. Sending to Richard now!

[@mathiaspetersen7265]

I'll keep fighting for The Bloodsworn series being in the correct order in the background till the day i die.

[@thomasray]

I support you

[@CombativeRoboGuy]

I have spent a day trying to understand what you meant by this. I WILL FIGHT YOU UNTIL THE DAY I DIE! IT IS INCORRECT!

[@jobiy1999]

To me the power of Dune comes from Herbert's idea that everything is an ecology. The ecology of politics, war, love, culture, technology, and even time itself. Everything is a system. Everything has a relationship. Everything has a process.

[@SimonDouville1]

a process within a process?

[@fshattered2808]

I'm a person with ADHD that whenever I try to read a paragraph I'll forget what I read and have to reread that paragraph then I'm stuck on a loop. Now, after watching your reviews I have pushed myself to read masterpieces like TWoK, WoR, Red Rising, Golden Son, and Dune. Currently reading Oathbringer. Thanks for what you guys do!

[@2ToRamble]

An honor 🤝 - so glad you’re reading these books

[@YeForWorldPresident]

Train your brain to consume long form media.

[@gamingsfinest3356]

I think one of the big reasons Tolkien didn't like Dune is because the entire book is formulated to essentially deconstruct the theological side of Tolkien's world view.

[@alexanderkonczal3908]

I feel like Tolkien's world is a truer mirror to reality if there is a god... and Herbert's world is a truer mirror if there isn't one. both are logical conclusions if you grant their premises.

[@Joker489]

J. R. R. Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic. Dune questions religion and messiah's. I would argue that this is the reason he HATES Dune

[@ScottBass]

Agreed

[@IlsildusHeir]

Is there any evidence of this though? There are thousands of ppl who are very religious and still love Dune. Christopher Roccio comes to mind.

[@jaishans]

"Dune is a great book, but red rising is better" - words of Blasphemy. Lisan al Gaib! Lisan al Gaib! Lisan al Gaib! (bTW, I love red rising)

[@LFNZE]

Muad'Dib wouldn't have let that slide

[@papaflow3116]

I would like to pour one out and honour those who we lost upon hearing the phrase “Red Rising is better”. We honour the fallen 😂 Excited for almost two hours of this

[@2ToRamble]

😁

[@billypilgrim5962]

One thing not mentioned, Paul's Mentat training in the book was very interesting and integral to his character. Definitely not explored in the movies as well as the politics of the spacing guild.

[@joegriggs7809]

Speaking of wheel of time are we not due for another review 🤔

[@valliyarnl]

Stilgar’s sycophancy has another arc in the later books which I thought was fantastic. And Alia by the end became my favorite character. I think Richard would love the growth that she goes through in the next 2 books especially since she definitely becomes a more philosophical chatavter

[@valliyarnl]

As a person who read on, Richard is spot on about the stagnation (explored more in God Emperor of Dune)

[@sideshowb.a.b.s.8913]

You should continue with the series. God Emperor is Insane

[@philm.pinyan811]

Just finished and couldn’t be happier with this vid. I can’t believe I got Dune and Neuromancer reviews in such quick succession. I’m living high on the spice right now lol. Fantastic discussion!

[@2ToRamble]

Thank you!!

[@chief8625]

Dune is definitely one of the best sci-fi books ever. It'd be cool if you guys continue with the series and review it.

[@CombativeRoboGuy]

Before my friend had even heard of Dune, I randomly quoted the “Fear is the mind Killer” Bene Gesserit mantra and he was EXTREMELY confused. It was really funny.

[@matthewmckinnon9298]

I'd highly encourage at least a continuation through dune messiah!

[@Smileysmiley012]

Forgot y’all doing two videos a week now! Was genuinely hype when I saw this on my home page. Don’t overwork yourselves! ✅✅✅

[@DiggerdanReads]

I came for the tier list at the end but stayed for the insightful thoughts!

[@2ToRamble]

😆

[@BookishGecko]

I gave Dune an 7.4 but I gave Red Rising an 8.6 however I’m fairly confident on a reread Dune will end up getting a higher rating.

[@philm.pinyan811]

I can’t put into words how excited I am to see Richard’s thoughts about the other five Dune books.

[@SenneW]

I've only listened to the first 10 seconds, but I'm already outraged 😂

[@2ToRamble]

😂❤️

[@randomknowledgeperson2872]

please do dune messiah. you don’t have to do the whole series but you at least have to read the consequences of the first book. also in my mind they aren’t two books, Messiah is just part 4 of the first book but Herbert was forced to split it up to save paper. i personally like it more than the first myself just because it made me love the first so much more.

[@philipgilfoy4026]

Frank is the Giant upon whose shoulders others like Pierce Brown have stood.

[@ScottBass]

Fun watch.. great video. Love you guys

[@2ToRamble]

Thankya Scott!

[@loumorrison72]

@7:40 the fact that Austin didnt say "hmm you sure he wasnt inspired by MARS" hooooooooooooooooooowl* lmao great ep

[@2ToRamble]

Lol thank you!

[@LFNZE]

Red Rising is more entertaining and fast paced, but DUNE is a masterpiece for it's writing, idea and message. Is a book that makes you think in like all the chapters and make you go back and read everything in detail without missing anything. Even tho i LOVE the red rising, DUNE is just better, it has better quality at least for me.

[@Vinflowerfield]

1:28:21 funny how I'm watching this video now and very recently Lindsay released a video on Beatles and how Yoko was NOT the reason they disbanded

[@VenturesBeyond]

Excellent video! I just finished my first read of Dune and I agree with Austin (dangerous words) about the characters, I was actually shocked by the depth to many of them and what they lent to the story. Dune could have been so much less, but Frank Herbert just elevated everything inside of it with themes and story--an awesome read!

[@rkgrkg]

I love your book reviews! You get into detail and have such great comments. This one especially helped me appreciate Dune even more.

[@jakeeffertz181]

I'm glad to hear that someone else had a hard time with the first half. I kept thinking to myself, "What do people see in this book??" It took a good 300 pages until I started to like the direction of the story. By the end, I definitely changed my mind.

[@Talking_Story]

We are on a wavelength Jakob and I just did a reaction to Dune 2 as a huge book fan and a viewer that has not read the books. I actually got Jakob on camera 😃Great stuff as always guys!

[@2ToRamble]

Oh hell yea - we’ll have to tune in!!

[@Talking_Story]

@@2ToRamble our video coming up Tuesday features me sporting my new favorite democracy is cringe t shirt😀

[@2ToRamble]

HONOR ISNT DEAD!!@@Talking_Story

[@jonsadenwasser4246]

I think you mean “ALLYAH! Dancing in September ALLYAH!” 🤣

[@curtis25920]

READ DUNE MESSIAH! YOU MUST! YOU MUST!

[@Andrew.Downing]

You guys need to have cheaper tiers for your Patreon! $10 a month is a tall order. I'd totally do it for like $3 a month even if it was just Discord access (unless that's already free! If so let me know!!) and not book club access, game nights, etc. I'd love to be a part of your community in chats but man $10 is alot.

[@2ToRamble]

We’ve been tossing around with that idea - thank you for the feedback!

[@Andrew.Downing]

@@2ToRamble new tiers ideas.... $3, $7, $9,and $10 (the current one to rule them all!)

[@vjmtz]

Dune vs Red Rising: Very much like Drama vs Action. Dune is slow..political and limited in action, but it has depth. Red Rising is much more visceral, its action and war and its politics are thin and on the surface. Both are great in their own way. Its just two different styles within the genre.

[@charliemessano2128]

Imo comparing rr and dune is impossible both are great and they are completely different.

[@jordangoodeye2604]

Is there any world where Tolkien was jealous? Maybe he felt like Herbert was working in his own space? Similar to that story of Stephen King not liking wheel of time and it seeming like jealousy?

[@2ToRamble]

Oo I (austin) didnt know about Stephen King not liking WOT

[@jordangoodeye2604]

@@2ToRamble I hope that’s a thing and I didn’t make it up.

[@alexanderkonczal3908]

he said he thinks he couldn't like it because he was too close to it as another world-building based author. he refused to say why exactly he didn't like it because of that, but also because he didn't want to tear down an obviously good book by a colleague. think of it kind of like being a master Italian chef with a family recipe that you've perfected over a lifetime of work, something you take great pride in and have strong feelings about. you visit another city and your friend asks you to try the same dish, made by an equally talented and experienced chef, but he makes it an entirely different way. it's just not going to sit right with you, as opposed to eating another dish they make that you've never even had before (a work from an entirely different genre). for the record, after saying he didn't like it, he told the person who sent him the book that he'd be happy to send the copy he'd been lent to someone else who would be more disposed to liking it, to ensure that the book got more exposure and praise. I don't think Tolkien would have done that if he thought the book was BAD.

[@KaoticKaden]

Please read will wights cradle it’s the book that made him please

[@abreathinguniverse]

Love this discussion 🎉❤

[@ArtSnob101]

Doesn't he say to his mom "what did you do to me?" That was a moment I felt bad for him but exhilarated too.

[@buttchutney4298]

I felt exactly the same as Richard on my first read of Dune as well. Its the rare example of a book that my enjoyment of it gets better and better the more time goes on and the more I think about it.

[@annaroselarsen4218]

Yes!

[@Kevsspot]

Love RR!

[@lwc2349]

I agree with Richard 100%, on my first and only read so far of Dune, I was confused at least at the beginning (it was also my first fantasy book) but I definitely got into a groove at some point, and I also loved the book.

[@Doctor_Rockso]

I stand with Austin and every bit of slander from Rich of Red Rising (the series) chips away at my soul

[@TheeLavv]

I’m curious as someone who felt like dune was also hard to read at first. A lot of language that wasn’t common etc. I liked dune and the story was awesome. I can also see the cultural significance of it but why does the fact that it’s simply hard to read not go against its rating. Personally like red rising better as well but I’m not hypercritical of books or a writer.

[@sideshowb.a.b.s.8913]

You loved Leto? Then you’ll love Leto II

[@IzzyZil20]

If Austin unironically actually thinks red rising is better than Dune (arguably the best scfi novel of all time and certainly my favorite) I’m completely disregarding his opinion on anything in the future. Red rising is fun, but there’s nothing besides action that red rising does better.

[@tonkabeanicecream5698]

Everyone likes different things ...

[@IzzyZil20]

@@tonkabeanicecream5698 you’re allowed to like different things but to say that Red Rising is better than Dune that’s crazy

[@tonkabeanicecream5698]

@@IzzyZil20 well its not if he likes it better 😂

[@IzzyZil20]

@@tonkabeanicecream5698 I mean, I’m just sharing my opinion you’re allowed to disagree

[@tonkabeanicecream5698]

@@IzzyZil20 its just an odd opinion to have to say someone who likes something better than something else is crazy.

[@georgimihalkov9678]

Awesome book. And surprisingly good recent movie adaptation.

[@naturalfluency2315]

The fact I can tell Austin dislikes the Shadow Rising pains me

[@Millenwagon182]

Bruh, I'd rather you just name the dream ending oscars movie b/c now as I marathon through them, I'm wondering if each one is just a dream lol

[@2ToRamble]

I can spoiler warning if you’re curious and give the movie below!

[@pedrodasilva539]

@@2ToRamble omg is it all of us strangers?

[@justinjosie5417]

Unpopular opinion but I’m not a fan of dune. I still watched this whole review just cause I love your channel 😂

[@2ToRamble]

Thank you for pushing through 😁😂

[@TolkienGeek.]

Saying Red Rising is better than Dune is just blasphemous.

[@2ToRamble]

🤌

[@Gooby12337]

I agree with Austin lol Dune is fantastic, but definitely not for everyone. The world-building is the best in the game, but the characters were such a bore for me

[@minaa107]

I also think Red Rising is better 🤣 Frankly I just enjoyed it a lot more.

[@2ToRamble]

BLOODYDAMN 🤝

[@freakynintendoguy00]

1:00:00 Dune doesn't ask what will happen, but HOW will it happen.

[@freakynintendoguy00]

A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it.

[@Sisyphaded]

Austin I’m at the point where I can’t tell if you’re joking or not…

[@mmorgan1980]

Its interesting neither of you mentioned the (likely) religious reasons behind Tolkien's dislike. Dune kind of seems like its tailor made for him to hate it. Lol.

[@xl4712]

I can't even lie, rating the first Red Rising book higher than this is insane 😂

[@2ToRamble]

😂 Austin is a dumbass (This is austin commenting)

[@eduardocod8924]

I have never seen a book with so many mixed reviews like dune. Half will say is great, and the other half will say is bad/ok. For a book to be considered so good it shouldn’t be getting so many mixed reviews

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

A lot of people don't like dense novels with little action.

[@DarkSitari]

This story needed 9-10 hours to tell correctly. Either 10 TV episodes at 60m each Or 3 films orlf 3 hours to cover the first Dune book. The last battle and emperor showdown were way too rushed.

[@2ToRamble]

Can definitely see that working

[@matthewm.7623]

I never read Dune because I heard of how it gets weird and bad in the later books and I am an all or nothing kind of reader. I have loved the movies though but I think Dune will be one of those books that is forever on the TBR just cause I have so many others to read as well.

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

Dune has always been weird. And only Brian Herbert's books are truly terrible. You should at least read up to God Emperor for the golden path to finish. Then Chapterhouse if you come to like Frank's writing.

[@MrShahraman]

Is this podcast about the first book only or the whole saga? Just to know what I should read before see it hahaha

[@2ToRamble]

Just the first book, don't worry

[@Gropylol]

didnt we already do this episode before????

[@2ToRamble]

We did a movie vs book episode and a spoiler-free book review before - you may be remembering one of those

[@eastye26]

Are you guys going to do a dune movie review?? Or like the things you like from the movie or dislike.

[@2ToRamble]

Episode 106 was a review of the movie (comparing aspects to the book)

[@robertomeleiro9999]

I'm sorry but I hated jessica on the books , I didnt care about her feeling not even a bit , but its fine that u loved her i can see that

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

That intro is not the golden path. Disgusting.

[@Darthsidious-c3f]

Lisan al Gaib!

[@about15hobos]

LISAN AL-GAIB!!!

[@nyxian_grid]

You'd be surprised by the amount of people that hate Dune ahah I can't understand them!

[@jonsadenwasser4246]

This wasn’t Poor Things was it?

[@2ToRamble]

No not Poor Things

[@WeWereTheStorm]

DOON

[@billyxfrancex4365]

Book 4 wheel of time review?😢

[@2ToRamble]

Coming 😅

[@billyxfrancex4365]

@@2ToRamble I forgive you :) 😂

[@2ToRamble]

Thank you lolol@@billyxfrancex4365

[@datmarshy]

The movie is much better. But dune is still a pretty darn good book

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

Wrong.

[@datmarshy]

Well, that sucks that you didn’t like either the book, the movie, or both. I think they’re both good. I guess art is subjective. So even the best pieces won’t be liked by everybody.

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

Just...everything here is wrong. Anyway, there's no reason to stick with the film over the novel.

[@oliverqueen9221]

I think we need another Dune movie with Austin as Paul and Richard as Jessica. And definitely add an oedipus complex theme on top. 🎉

[@2ToRamble]

😂

[@s.p.8508]

I tried reading Dune twice. Tapped out at around page 150 both times. It’s just plain boring, really nothing else too it. Red Rising is FAR better. Also, I read book 2 of Sun Eater, it is 100x better than book 1. Highly recommend reading on. Btw Austin, buddy, we gotta talk. That movie you suggested to Richard in one of the podcasts (idk which one) Aftersun…. I watched it the other day. Dude, it’s just 2 hours of a father and daughter on vacation. Literally nothing else. Every single scene is stretched out as far as it can go, the dialogue is choppy, etc etc…. And NOTHING HAPPENS. You gotta find better movies😂

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

Incorrect.

[@2ToRamble]

That wasn’t the movie I was talking about. (Though I do LOVE Aftersun, that can be a whole different conversation)

[@s.p.8508]

@@2ToRamble oh, so what movie were you talking about?

[@2ToRamble]

American Fiction!@@s.p.8508

[@s.p.8508]

@@2ToRamble I’ll check it out.

[@connorlancial6215]

Nothing like a new 2TR review to get through a long cross train session 🥹

[@2ToRamble]

🥺🤝

[@WesleyStubbs-x4t]

Please read all dune books by Frank Herbert. Love the channel would watch all pods with dune

[@kylebuonomo2557]

I’m like 50 pages into the book but hadn’t been able to read since I had lotta exams last week but just started break, this couldn’t be more hype of a thing to see pop up 🙏🦦