Dungeon Craft #30: Dungeon World Review

[@Zorato1]

I think many of these "newer" RPG´s really understand there are alot of 40+ year old players that do not have time to play all weekends as we could do when we were 14, and the game needs to have a really effective flow when you play them. Many people trying these new games for the first time are often amazed how much you get done in one session when combat does not take 30-60 minutes and instead 5 minutes.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

daarco2 Yep. Couldn’t have said it better.

[@noreaster7171]

👍🏻

[@knghtbrd]

More importantly, even if you CAN play three hours every week, if a villain escapes after 2-3 rounds of combat, it's "Get back here, you're the bad guy we've been after for months and you're not getting away!" After 15 rounds? "Get back here, we've just spent the past 45 minutes kicking your ass and we're NOT going through all of that again!" I love Prof. Dan's way of handling mechanics quickly in a way that makes the story and the cinematic action rise to the top. I love the world where the monsters are usually men or … things that maybe were men once… I love that they aren't trying to be human … but still have things like families if players start getting too bloodthirsty (an that maybe the best thing to do is NOT kill everything in sight…) I say that despite coming to this channel not from D&D but from HeroQuest. Never had any positive D&D experiences growing up, but a friend did own HQ and we had a blast back then. There's almost NO story, there's basically no good reason to leave monsters alive ever, and … actually combat still happens quickly, though some of the mechanics are a little weird. We do role play it, but since there's no real story the role playing doesn't have to make sense. The elf found a wandering orc who couldn't hit him even after being buffed by a threat/complication house rule designed to keep players moving, so we decided his ghost was still trying to ineffectively stab the elf. We exorcised him but in the next quest another appeared, "…I don't know, out of the wizard's hat, yeah…" and immediately attacked the elf again, missing still. Reincarnated? Must be. We should name him in case he comes back again… Bob! His name is Bob. And as far as we know … his ghost is still trying. Bob: Stab is how orc show he care… Wizard: I don't think that's how that works, actually… Dwarf: I don't know, it doesn't sound like a bad idea to me… Elf: Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the rock pile this morning? Wouldn't mind a D&D game with adults or even with teens today, but in the latter case I'd probably have to be running it and I haven't got a ton of experience as a player even. What I had dates back to 2E and THAC0 and a table full of people who were determined to make sure that I didn't want to play again since they were OBLIGATED to allow me to be there if I wanted to be. So, yeah, I came for the making stuff cheap. Stayed because the Cavern's campaign seems like so much fun, and the kinds of games the Prof runs actually sound like fun to play.

[@Jay-ql4gp]

This is four years late, but I played a session of 3.5 once where one battle, just one...took nine hours of real time. Now there were nine players, who had been gaming for a few years by this point, but there was so much page turning, and so much discussion and planning on how to take the monsters out that it just sucked the life out of me.

[@Zorato1]

@@Jay-ql4gp Been there, done that :) That is the oldschool way of doing it. Nowdays it just goes so much faster.

[@jgroth3906]

There's a reason players often say they dislike Dungeon World and other PBtA games. DW is about the GM and players coming together to craft a narrative about fantasy adventurers getting into dangerous situations and risking life and limb for the chance of fortune and glory. It's about giving the players the chance to embody a fantasy adventurer facing down ever escalating threats. It's about experiencing the thrill of real risk and reward. Most players don't want that. They might say they want that, but most players actually want to find the right ways to manipulate the game mechanics to "win". Who can blame them? That's the way most players have been trained to think by video games and most modern RPG systems including 5e. Dungeon World is not a game to win. It's a set of mechanics aimed at crafting a shared narrative. Players should revel in their character's victories, and lament their defeats, but they also need to play to find out what happens and understand that character failure is not equivalent to the player losing. Some signs a player may be in the wrong mindset is if they say something like, "I hate how I'm always getting punished by rolling 7-9". This implies that the game should reward taking the "right" action and punish doing the "wrong" action. There is no right or wrong action because although some actions have better or worse odds of succeeding depending on who's doing them, the most likely outcome is always 7-9 because DW is all about crafting a narrative about adventurers facing down escalating threats. Another sign is complaining about the lack of options. The options for approaching any given situation are practically infinite. Just because it isn't listed in a book, doesn't mean it isn't an option. Appreciating the beauty of Dungeon World requires a shift in mindset, one that players may find difficult if they never GM. (I think GMs are more used to occupying the "fiction first" headspace). Dungeon world is about creatively engaging with the narrative, to create an exciting story full of danger, and playing to find out what happens. It's not about engaging with the mechanics to win the game.

[@AndrusPr8]

After playing a couple DW sessions and facing a DnD 5e session again, now I realize how time consuming the DM's turn are. In DW, with the lack of rounds and turns and the GM depending on your own moves, the players are constantly in the spotlight. Combat is way more engaging and reactive since it progress under the players decisions and not so much the GM intervention. DnD DM-Player interaction DM: I attack you with a mace, 14 hits? Player: No DM: Ok. And now I go with a claw. 18 hits? Player: Yes DM: Ok, that's... 8 damage. Dungeon World DM-Player interaction DM: I attack you with the mace, what do you do? Player: I defend myself DM: OK. That's a defy danger roll, describe how you defend yourself. Player: I set a trap for the goblin. This place has a slight slope so I place myself in such a way that when he tries to strike me the goblin trips. DM: That could be quick thinking or a sharp observation, roll either with INT or WIS, whatever suits you better. Player: 10 DM: The goblin trips over and your tactics work.

[@override367]

I've played with various Homebrew and d&d to make it faster, one of the easiest ways is getting rid of anything that would change a character's AC mid-action. And I'm going to be honest I feel like the biggest offender is The shield spell just slowing the game now but there are other ways. I am seriously leaning on despite my players objections and incredibly strenuous objections at that, bowling forward with making it so that all reactions in the game require you to declare them before the enemy takes their action. So if I tell you the goblin is attacking you you have to say I'm using shield or warding flair or whatever right then otherwise I'm going to roll and you're going to take the damage because I already know what your armor class is

[@jeremymullens7167]

DnD Dm-player interaction Dm: The monster attacks in a flurry of blows and scores a hit with their claw doing 8 damage. I tend to know the AC of my players. I write down all important statistics and don’t ask them for that information. A failed hit does not need to be described.

[@jeremymullens7167]

The mechanics of the game can largely be hidden from the players. A DM could roll all the dice and players would know even less. What’s important is what the DM feels comfortable managing. A common one is encumbrance. Lots of DM’s just drop it. They don’t track it or simplify it. Another DM might have a system or strategy to manage it. Most of the simplification I’ve seen in DnD is largely aimed at making it easier to DM and dropping the harder systems. The initiative system in 5e in my opinion is not the best one. It is, however, easier to run. Even though people still get bogged down

[@jkwatcher47]

This is EXACTLY the type of RPG review I’ve been looking for. I want to know how the game plays! I want to know how the mechanics are different. Maybe I’ve been looking in the wrong places, but thank you for this review.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks. I try to be useful.

[@gogonomo5604]

You need to go back through his videos. Some mind blowing revelations in them

[@theDMLair]

This review was perfect. Thanks! I've always been interested in checking DW out, but I wanted to understand it better first. Now I do. I appreciate the explanation of why you only ran it a couple sessions. That's very helpful info.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Glad to be of help. I'm a slooooooow talker by nature and I was afraid it was a little draggy, Thanks for the compliment. More reviews by the summer.

[@theDMLair]

DUNGEON CRAFT The pacing felt good for this video, honestly. It gave time to understand a concept before moving onto the next. At any rate, YT has the option to speed up and slow down videos, so I don't worry much about how slow or fast people talk. I can always "fix it" if I need to. 😎

[@nooanykanen5864]

you should its amazing and i personally love it

[@twilightgardenspresentatio6384]

the DM Lair well put

[@Timberella3003]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Your delivery and pacing are spot-on.

[@godfreemorals]

The line, "if we were designing D&D from scratch today, Dungeon World is what we'd come up with." Really speaks of this system's achievement. I'm so pleased to see RPGs moving into a more narrative driven group-storytelling activity and away from endless dice rolls, maths and statistic battles. The latter's link to the world of war games was always an unwelcome hangover in my mind and led to min-maxers ruining many a game back in the 90s. I can't wait to get my old group together again and play this! (I mean, if our various partners and child care commitments allow us!) Edit: Great review btw!

[@KoreyMacGill]

I've switched to DW. I made one mod. I use a d20. I updated each move to have an entry for a 20 (+1 forward, etc.) And 14+ replaces 10+, 8-13 replaces 7-9, and 7- instead of 6-. I also treat nat 1 as a unique roll with lousy things like debility or whatnot. To make it work you update the ability scores to be from 1-20 and the modifiers to run from -5 to +5 instead of -3 to +3. I love this system.

[@aherosquest4536]

Regarding the modifiers, when you go from the +\-3 to +\-5, would you mind elaborating on that? Do you mean the modifiers get an additional +\- 2 in adjustments?

[@ZaatarGardens]

@@aherosquest4536 that’s what it sounds like

[@mr-boo]

You are of course free to do whatever you want, but do note that you have skewed the results rather favourably in your game. For comparison, in DW: - Failure (1-6): 42% - Partial Success (7-9): 42% - Success (10-12): 17% Whereas in your system: - Failure: (1-7): 35% - Partial Success (8-13): 30% - Success (14-20): 35% This is due to combinatorics of multiple dice, there's more ways to form the middle numbers than the extremes. The following d20 outcome classification most closely matches the original distribution: - Failure (1-8): 40% - Partial Success (9-16): 40% - Success (17-20): 20%

[@martinphillpot2010]

6 or less means the gm makes a move, not necessarily a fail.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

True.

[@jerramiemiller]

This trigger means that the DM can simly do a counterattack. I was thinking on a d20, the total rolled score... 1-9 fail 46% 10-15 success @ a cost 36% 16-20 success. 18% Ive actually rolled this out on multiple dice rollers and they all seem to get pretty close to these same numbers. Nat 1 and 20 rules still apply.

[@martinphillpot2010]

@@jerramiemiller a mere counterattack lacks imagination, one time I set a city on fire on a roll of a 6.

[@Jupiter065]

I think Dungeon World is going to always be fighting the visceral psychological resistance players have to hurting their characters with their own rolls. It doesn't really matter that it's mechanically and logically the same as opposed rolls or enemy rolls against their defense, there's a powerful psychological benefit to being able to blame someone else's good luck rather than one's own bad luck.

[@WARCERER]

I think most PbtA games, need a change of psychology, to learn to embrance failure and complications. Besides, usually one thing anyone who plays them has to understand is that you are not "hurting yourself", the opponents and adversaries are acting, and you are interfering... and that may come with a cost...

[@gogonomo5604]

I'm going to present it as "you engage in hand to hand with the orc, roll to see who gets the upper hand, that person rolls damage".

[@Baalur]

You can let other players roll the damage for the one suffering it. "The player to the left of you rolls damage." It could create some tension with certain player types. But usually it works pretty well.

[@gogonomo5604]

@@Baalur I did this at my last game. It was so funny. Made 2 brothers roll the damage each would take. Colourful language indeed

[@Dinofaustivoro]

Its the same as making a jump check, you roll the dice and you may get hurt if you fail.

[@hunterironside9969]

I love the Apocalypse engine. Dungeon World is my fave of that engine. Kult: divinity lost is also really good.

[@Forward.Together.Jeff.Strong]

Dungeon World is easily the best role playing game I've tried. It's so fun and fast-paced. As a GM, it's SO much easier to prep for, and so much more enjoyable to GM than D&D 5e.

[@JS-sy7ym]

I’m late to this video, but after seeing DW referenced in forums but never explained I was happy to find a video where you reviewed it. You sold me on it and I bought a copy. I have decided to adopt DW for my campaign. It’s too bad so many people get hung up on the d20 thing. I started out with Advanced Fighting Fantasy, so rolling 2d6 is very nostalgic for me!

[@biggrump4967]

ICRPG player right here - been in the system since the beginning. Seeing you mentioning it in your vids and comments has upped my fandom of your channel to 11! I really liked this ‘review.’ Our community has been raving about your content; keep it up! We are with you - the shield wall approves! I would argue this was more of an analysis of what you found at your own table and I preferred that style to “this is what it contains.” Others already do those. I really like how you bring experience to your videos. I personally think ICRPG is the perfect pairing for the TAGS in dungeon world. I really like the HP system in dungeon world but since ICRPG does not use an actual stat, it is a tougher conversion. I also think the effort in ICRPG can be adjusted to match classes similar to dungeon world (mix up the D4, D6, and D8 in ICRPG to the effort your class is best with). I haven’t found the sweet spot yet between the two systems. As much I want to try the 2d6 concept... we all grew up with the d20 and you are right - nothing beats the natural 20; either from the GM or the players. I don’t think I can switch to that.

[@TheFleahost]

So glad you commented. I'm just now hearing about DW and ICRPG. I was wondering if they worked together. Thank you Big Grump!

[@kevingooley9628]

Sounds like you're pretty experienced with ICRPG, if you see this, is there any official TAGS for ICRPG? I like the system, but he gives tags as a vague suggestion, as I'd he decided to not go forward with using them. I was wondering if anyone had created a list of tag effects or usages to go with the weapon tags he gives?

[@willsave5416]

I’ve looked at this system off and on but your sold it to me in this excellent summary. Great job. Also that paint job on the fighter (in the first scene, trying to jump her way across the chasm) is fantastic.

[@theDMLair]

Will Save Same. Been intetested for some time, but now much more so. Just gotta convince my D&D players to give it a try now. 😀

[@john-lenin]

The point is that with a narrative system you don’t need hit points. You only need statuses and effects. The tricky thing about the system is defining the time period and meaning of success and failure for each encounter so that the expectations of the players are clear.

[@TheLurker1647]

I've stuck by Dungeon World and its iterations (Freebooters on the Frontier, Perilous Wilds, Etc.) because it's so accessible for anyone to grasp. As you observed, it gives the layman the feel of D&D without the need for breaking out charts and doing calculus. It keeps the action focused and players engaged, and at the end of the day, that's what you want as a DM.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I agree.

[@ronwisegamgee]

Good review, Prof. DM. Besides its innovative game mechanics, other area of high praise that I would give Dungeon World is the DM section. Never have I ever seen a DM section that spells out what a DM does like Dungeon World, from sticking to the DM agenda to having a solid list of consequences whenever a character rolls anything under a 10 to setting up fronts. It's damn near foolproof, IMO.

[@paulofrota3958]

This is the first time I watch a video on your channel and I'm surprised with the quality of writing and editing. Congratulations, you deserve a hundred thousand subs! Ok, now for the complaints. Everything you said about the system was correct but very, VERY superficial. You grossed over the best thing about DW, the actual roleplaying/conversation mechanic between GM and players and how the moves and tags actually work - a dragon's description may be brief, but its tags give the GM so many options and ideas! Also, all playbooks (that's how the character sheets are called) are available online. I understand the video had time and content limitations but I think this game deserves a more in-depth review of what makes it unique and I believe you could deliver great content about it. Thank you for the video and keep up the great work!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Paulo, you are correct about the video being superficial. Reviews have to hit broad concepts, but if I were to do it again, I would certainly mention the tags, which are really cool and innovative. Thanks for your compliments re: the writing and editing. You can help get my subscriber numbers up by sharing my videos, for which I am always grateful!

[@paulofrota3958]

Will do! You deserve much praise! I've been watching your videos non-stop for the past few hours and I'm really impressed :-) Congrats again on the amazing work! And let me say this, when I said the video was superficial that might have sounded a little bit harsher than I intended, so sorry for that. I understand that reviews need to be broad and (in a short video) can't explain everything. What I really meant is that maybe some people who never read the book or seen the game being played might misunderstand some concepts and dismiss the game as 'silly' or 'simplistic' (I've seen that happen). You know how some players find it hard to describe actions and go right for the name of the moves? How they focus on the strategic aspects of combat instead of the cinematic ones? I think you mentioned your own players disliking DW... It would be awesome to see a video about that experience and hear your opinion about the reasons you think your players didn't enjoy DW and preferred to go back to D&D. Regards and thanks for taking the time to reply!

[@ichifish]

Excellent summary. I use the Powered by the Apocalypse engine (the ruleset for Apocalypse World that the designers of Dungeon World modded for that RPG) for my homebrew. It's MUCH more streamlined than D&D, and you really don't lose anything. You can also roleplay MUCH more easily. In D&D you have to go through endless rounds of attacking and that's usually the ONLY thing you can do. But in the case of the fighter with the goblins from the video, if the fighter rolled a 10+ I would just say, so you're kicking their ass, what happens? And the fighter could describe it freely: I brain the first one with my axe and hit him so hard he slams into the two standing beside him. When the fourth one steps up I kick him in the chest and send him toppling over the other three." So much more exciting than "I swing my axe. I rolled an 18 and I do 7 points of damage to that one." If the fighter scored a 7-9 (dealing and suffering damage), the player or the GM might say "Traya stabs the first one through the neck, but her sword gets caught. As she's pulling it out one of the bastards stabs her in the back." Dealing damage by class, imo, is both more realistic and cinematic -Brienne of Tarth is a badass, whether she's wielding a Valyrian steel sword or biting off ears, and it doesn't matter what Tyrion is wielding, because he's gotta get really lucky to score a hit. Because HP doesn't increase and there's always the risk of serious injury, you don't have that typical D&D situation of "I don't have to follow laws because I can literally kill every person in this town." The only way to address that in the mechanics of D&D is to make the townspeople higher levels, but that doesn't make much fictional sense. Also, in the AW ruleset the players have just as much authority in world design. The GM does not - can not - say "here's the world I designed, here's the story, and you guys are just characters in it." The players design the world together. So if I'm DMing and you want to be a dwarf, I'm gonna say "what are dwarves like? Do they get along with other races? How common are they? Do they live in just a few places, or are they integrated into other societies? How do other races treat them, and how do they feel about the others? In one campaign the hobbits were untrustworthy pixie types, the dwarves were the bureaucratic, gnomish-type engineers, the elves were like Star Trek Vulcans, and the humans considered all of them "aliens." If you want to see a great example of Dungeon World, my favorite is Adam Koebel (one of the designers) GMing a one-shot with five guys who've never roleplayed before. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nam6fHiDhqyiZ9E

[@pierremiranda287]

Actually nothing prevents you from using DW in a more traditional way, without the collaborative storytelling element (which I'm personally not bought on).

[@hoogmonster]

Whilst an experienced DnD n player might feel underwhelmed by the 2d6 roll mechanic one could always make the roll of natural 12 a crit if one wanted to. So 10 and 11 are as the rules state but 12 deals double damage. If you want then add the modifier to the damage dealt.

[@1simo93521]

I ran three campaigns in DW I found it fit my fast paced style of GM'ing really well. The trick with DW is to only roll dice when you are prepared to inflict consequences on the players and also go big with the most outrageous scenes and enemies you can, the game really rewards outrageous action.

[@paulofrota3958]

Oh, before I forget: those are some of the best-looking minis I've ever seen '-' Congrats!!!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks! Many of them I obtained quite cheaply. I have a couple of videos coming up that features those minis and I talk about which lines made them and how much they cost, if you're interested.

[@matthewconstantine5015]

I'm not going to go into a long thing, but I'm not a fan of D&D. Never have been. However, Dungeon World seems like something I could really enjoy. All the style and theme, but with rules that don't make me want to scream. What you said about it being what you'd make if you tried to make D&D today is close to what I said when I first read it. "It's like someone decided to make D&D actually fun to play." Cool review. And I'm enjoying your videos. Thanks.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

You're welcome. Try it out. And keep watching this channel. I try to make it system agnostic. Next week's episode is about horror. Cheers and thanks for watching!

[@ichifish]

If it's the mechanics that bother you about D&D then you're gonna love DW. If you're not a fan of fantasy settings (I've outgrown it myself), I would highly recommend Apocalypse World or one of the other games that use the Powered by the Apocalypse engine, which is what Dungeon World uses. Check out the Roll20 Apocalypse World play-throughs for examples. There's also a great example of a Dungeon World one-shot with first time rpgers here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nam6fHiDhqyiZ9E

[@FHangya]

It's always great to see respect and kindness from youtubers towards all kinds of "alternative" RPGs. Thanks! ^^

[@aksantom]

This is the best system I have ever played. I wish I discovered it before I bought all the pathfinder 1e books...switched all my campaigns to DW

[@michellefloyd2216]

Ever since running Apocalypse World, Dungeon World has been my go-to for swords & sorcery.

[@EmeranceLN13]

What about just sort of combining the ideas of both in terms of dice rolls? Drop the 2d6's and use the d20. Add in your previously mentioned idea of simpler DC checks like 5, 10, 15 and then go up to 20 or 25 depending on the level/modifiers of your players and enemies. Then you incorporate in Dungeon World's concept of failure, success with consequences, and success. You still give your players the wholly psychological endorphin rush of hitting a natural 20. But, you maintain the speed of combat that Dungeon World offers. I am starting to feel the drag of long combat sessions as both a player and DM. I went from playing sorcerers or rogues to simply barbarians. I charge every enemy, swing my sword, and most of the time it works out great and I end combat fast. Then I can get back to the more interesting storytelling part. My annoyance with DnD combat and most games nowadays is the number bloating to enable instant gratification. Dealing 2 damage to kill an enemy in one hit is the same as dealing 20 damage and killing an enemy in one hit. The 20 is just a larger number than the 2, so we feel better about the 20 than the 2. This comment was way more than I planned to write 30 seconds ago. But, ultimately, I wanted to say that I love your videos and you have read my mind about my own issues with games from D&D to video games like Skyrim and such.

[@TubeHeader]

The thing I personally like about dungeon world isn't the innovative combat, it's the ease of DMing. In D&D, with undefined stakes, and difficult rules, it takes a lot of skill and talent to run. But in dungeon world, it's incredibly easy to run, you just talk to the players, and tell them when to roll, it's an easy to learn RPG. And what's more, it's all one book in comfortable language. And the consequence system makes the game much more consistently interesting than the difficulty system of D&D. But I love D&D, for different reasons.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Very well reasoned. I loved DW because it was a snap to run. While the consequence system is innovative it starts to feel sort of....meh....boring... after several sessions. The natural 20 is thrilling in a way a natural 12 isn’t. What do you think?

[@dkbibi]

Side note, on a 10+ of hack n slash, if the player chooses to do +1d6 dmg he also gets attacked by his enemy whether or not he kills it.

[@lachielvaher9168]

I started playing D&D with D&D.. then AD&D. and I have once or twice played 3rd and 5th ed. but I my far love Dungeon World more than anything since old school D&D. I love the story driven narrative and rules light approach. it's my goto when I'm not playing Monster of the Week which is another PBTA game.

[@azuretigers5562]

WOW ! Thank you Professor Dungeon Master ! I was extremely curious about this game system of Dungeon World - thank you for explaining the system - - it makes it so simpler with your demonstrations !! I can confirm that there is something ''enchanting'' about the D20 system that cannot be easily replicated. I must say however, that I do enjoy the combat systems proposed in D&D The Boardgame (with the yellow/orange/red/purple dice) and the HeroQuest system. One thing I must complain about though with any original D&D game (from 2nd Edition to 5th Edition) ; it created an entire population of people who seem to focus entirely on D&D without trying new systems. I'm tired of Goblins and Fairies and Gnomes and Dragons - - yet, I seem to be the only one offering something different and I cannot find players, or it's extremely difficult for me to find players. Even when I propose something more GrimDark - - people are very reluctant to try it.

[@diceythings]

You are absolutely correct, professor. I've tried many mechanics using different dice, but my players just don't like it. I finally settled on d20 system where the players roll an additional die according to how skilled they are with the weapon they are using (unarmed/improvised weapon=0, poor=d4, fair=do, etc.). Additionally, each weapon has specific attributes the PC can take advantage of. Martial PCs can even gain additional "techniques" with weapons and armor (to produce specific effects).

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

My players did not take well to Dungeon World. They love the d20s too much.

[@diceythings]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 New players at my table are usually excited with the idea of the rules I use, but then they become apprehensive when I tell them that d20s are only for combat and that their character sheets are too complicated and not to worry too much about skills.

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

I am an RPG writter and both my published games are PbtA's (Powered by the Apocalipse), the same genre of Dungeon World. My First book actually started as a DW hack i published for free over a few years before i turned It into a comercial product. I really love the move mechanic for resolution. It makes games way more interesting and dynamics compared to D20 System.

[@oldercloudify]

I wrote a supplement for Dungeon World called Mort Tanis. I ran it with my group, but they hated Dungeon World. It’s so fun to run.

[@TorianTammas]

I noticed that what seems to be fun for the GM is often hated by the players.

[@BrJPGameplay]

This was the first system that I played and I love it, the amount of storytelling besides combat is great, you and your DM contribute to the story together much more easily than any other system I played afterwards.

[@Plotspider]

I'll give you the d20 feeling. I like that very much too, but I LOVE DW and it is precisely because I did not want to just have to figure out the DnD world and work with things out of it.

[@starkfels-diespielefestung2680]

I wouldn't say you necessarily fall into the bottomless chasm if you rolled a 6 or lower. What would happen? Your character just dies? How is this interesting? The beauty of this system is that it produces outcomes to drive the story forward, and not producing dead ends. So what could happen instead? You want to jump over the chasm. If the GM thinks you should make it, no problem. You don't even need to roll. If he wants to introduce a danger or have your actions have consequences, you roll. But as a GM you should keep in mind what those conseqences could be and how those could make the scene more interesting (after all one principle is: Be a fan of your players characters). On a 6, the goblin chasing you might be faster, grabs you by the ankles and have you dangling down the bridge on his side. A makes for a much more satisfying outcome because now the player needs to act again. In this way you can snowball dangerous situation instead of just "letting a character die".

[@ichifish]

I don't think I'd put a bottomless chasm in my settings for exactly that reason. If it were bottomless, on a miss I'd have the player stranded on a ledge 50' below.

[@taragnor]

Yeah ultimately all a failure by 6 means is that the DM can "make a move." It doesn't necessarily mean catastrophic failure. Granted you could be heavy handed and kill the players, but it'd be far more exciting if you did something like the "put them in a spot" move where you have one precariously hanging by one hand on the edge... do his fellows go and rescue him and put themselves in danger of the pursuing goblin's arrows or do they leave him to die?

[@apilgrim8715]

You don't have to die in DW really. This game has a considerable amount of negotiation.

[@strygian192]

Games where you can’t die or are saved repeatedly are boring.

[@Jupiter065]

@@strygian192 There's a whole lot of options between "can't die" and "fail a single roll and die". The latter is just terrible game design and worse storytelling, unless it's supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek meat-grinder game.

[@iainmaclean1205]

Have you tried Monster of the Week? I ask because we have a regular d&d game, 3 years and counting, and recently we have tried MoW whenever our regular dm has had to work shifts. It has the same mechanic as DW but has a totally different feel as we are trying to recreate the feel of tv shows like Buffy and Stranger Things not epic fantasy. The play is to figure out what the monster is, where it is, what it is weak to and to somehow defeat it while developing character back stories and creating the world. The players have a lot of power and as a game it feels more like collaborative story telling than anything I've experienced with 5e (and AL in particular). Now that we are familiar with the system and the feel of the game (although we do play it for laughs) we are now talking about giving DW a shot. We are getting used to our character's fragility (only 7 hp, and you are dying when you hit 3) and learning how to play more creatively - you cannot just trade blows with the monsters, you will die. I wonder if trying the system in a different context would make your players more amenable?

[@asaskald]

I rarely play anything other than Dungeon World. Anytime I read some OSR goodness, my mind goes, "Wow, I really love this.... But you know, I could do this in Dungeon World without all this redundant system resolution". I have friends that mostly play D&D that argue that D&D gives so many options. I explain that they have all the same options in Dungeon World without it being a systemic component. If you want a cool feat, you just describe it in the fiction. You don't need to write down some rule to allow the fictional license. I think a lot of people feel like you need to work to earn cool abilities. That somehow being able to just do something heroic is cheating. And I understand that. A level 1 druid in Dungeon World can shapeshift. When I first started playing I thought that was over powered. I was thinking in terms of challenging the players mechanically. All it really does is give the player a different type of narrative control. Dungeon World makes you a better GM.

[@ichifish]

@Keith: totally agree. I'm a much better GM since I learned the Powered by the Apocalypse (the ruleset used for DW) principles. Everyone enjoys the sessions much more, I have far less prep and stress, and the stories we tell are so much better. Totally agree that D&D and Pathfinder don't have more options. Their complexity makes it seem like they have more options, but that's a facade.

[@asaskald]

Josh Wilson, I play almost exclusively Powered by the Apocalypse games. It's quality stuff!

[@TorianTammas]

Keith Lau - It is a very limiting system with its classes, the hit points the damage according to class and so on. It may see like freedom from a D&D point of few. It looks like jail from many other RPGs

[@JaredHayter]

The odds of rolling a 6- on 2d6 is 42%. The odds of rolling 7-9 is also 42%. The odds of rolling 10+ is 16%. One could map this range of results to a d20. Failure becomes 9- (45%); partial success becomes 10-17 (40%); full success becomes 18+ (15%). This might scratch the d20-rolling itch for long-time D&D players.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Let me know if you playlets it. I'm very curious.

[@lordleif1]

Do you still feel the same about it?

[@amdnable]

what a great review! illlustrating the rules with your toy soldiers was much more entertaining than blocks of text :D

[@WARCERER]

Great video! as a huge fan of PbtA games, I encourage you to try others. Some are very different mechanically but the same in spirit and philosophy. I think Dungeon World, as a great game it is, maybe is not the best example of what a PbtA game can give... But as you said, most of these games are fast, fun, and focused on fiction. And I think some of the philosophy behind them can very well be translated into other games too. The same with some tools they give you (the use of fronts, clocks, and the lack of iniciative and turns.-

[@daveinsel]

the lack of d20 usage is my only complaint about Dungeon World. The 2d6 roll is objectively better. I just love the d20.

[@snakeoi1sean]

Then switch the values around a bit, maybe make a short table for critical success and failures and add a d20 when you play (is what I'm thinking).

[@crowgoblin]

You can you a d20, adjust the targets... 1-10 miss/fail 11-15 partial hit/success 16-20 full hit/success It’s the same 50/50 hit/miss chance, although dice probability is different. On a d20 there’s exactly 5% chance of rolling any number, whereas on 2d6 there’s a curve, but statistically rolling double 6s is only 2% chance, much rarer than a Nat 20.

[@mrgunn2726]

Great review! I agree with you on the character sheet. The first thing I like to look at with a new RPG system is the character sheet, it can tell you a tremendous amount about the system and what questions to ask first.

[@starkfels-diespielefestung2680]

5:40 Don't forget: In order for the fighter to actually do damage, he would need to have a method of doing damage. Just wailing with a sword on dragon scales might do nothing at all because you simply can't penetrate them with a sword.

[@Lazarus178]

Strictly speaking, your HP *can* go up very slightly if you choose to increase your Constitution when you level up, but you're only getting one additional HP each time and you often have better attributes to be raising.

[@GenuineMattyC]

I love this channel so much! Your music choice for your videos is an inspired one.

[@VaGuS343]

Thanks prof! I use this for my 1 evening 1 shot adventures or my around the camp fire (while camping) adventures. Prep is minimal, as you said....I can play with both new and old players....we all have a great time with the free flowing narration style game.... and i have fun cause it is so casual.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Glad I connected you with this great game.

[@VaGuS343]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Yes. Thanks for doing that. I also got connected with DCC, and ICRPG.... Thanks again. PS: I left a comment just a few minutes ago on your magic video ... I know professors are very busy people but I'd love your opinion. Take your time. Thanks again!

[@crowgoblin]

You can you a d20, adjust the targets... 1-10 miss/fail 11-15 partial hit/success 16-20 full hit/success It’s the same 50/50 hit/miss chance, although dice probability is different. On a d20 there’s exactly 5% chance of rolling any number, whereas on 2d6 there’s a curve, but statistically rolling double 6s is only 2% chance, much rarer than a Nat 20.

[@benvoliothefirst]

Knowing that you're on a quest for simple and fast-paced RPG's, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the 1-page RPGs like "Lasers & Feelings." Is there such a thing as "TOO simple?" Also, I just purchased Dungeon World based on your recommendation. Thanks!

[@Pokarface7]

Lol, lasers and feelings is just 1 to 3 die throw to see if you succeed and how well

[@benvoliothefirst]

@@Pokarface7 Yes. Correct. AND...?

[@saintmatthew956]

Great review. We have been playing DW exclusively for almost a year now. There's custom character sheet (or playbooks) online. To me, the strength of the system relies on risk/reward rather than the pass/failure. If bad roll on Discern Realities might lead to a complication, you might not roll to look for traps in every room and corridor. Lastly, the advice on Fronts should be required reading for any DM/GM.

[@ichifish]

Yes, I totally agree about the risk of failure in Powered by the Apocalypse (the ruleset used for DW) games making everything more interesting. A player in my homebrew game tried to extract part of an engine, hard missed, and blew up the airship. If he'd missed the roll in D&D, he just would have missed it. Another time the doctor tried to heal another player but missed, causing the player to go unconscious at the worst possible moment. Fun stuff.

[@TorianTammas]

@@ichifish My players hated it from the bottom of their hearts.

[@jgroth3906]

@@TorianTammas Sadly, most players don't care about exciting narratives and experiencing risk vs reward. They just want to "win" the game.

[@PixPunxel]

Great review ! I was looking for brief explanation of what dungeon world is. And you nailed it. Thanks. Subscribed to channel. And great minis btw :D

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thank you, Jagoshk! It was my first review and I struggled with the length. Glad you like the minis. I work hard on them and think they distinguish the channel from other D&D channels.

[@mikehill9806]

I've played Offworlders, which is based on Dungeon World, and our veterans love it. I really want to pick up Dungeon World now. Thanks.

[@tomyoung9834]

Great Video, thanks! As a gamer who started in 1983, who now runs Pathfinder, I’ve been intrigued by DW, now will definitely check it out!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

For $20 it's worth it--even if you only steal some concepts.

[@WaitingforArmageddon]

You are what I have been looking for in a RPG reviewer! Thank you for being you!

[@pattersonleong8898]

Love this review. Hits the nail, great ideas for solo RPG GM. Will test and adept to Pathfinder, WFRP, Warhammer Quest too! I realized for those partial success, as a Solo GM, I may need to find random tables for that circumstances. Great review and thanks a tonnage.

[@aaronbono4688]

Sounds like a game that might be fun to play in between D&D sessions or when you don't have time to prepare and you want to do something and do you want a break from D&D. My wife and I eventually plan to do regular gaming sessions where sometimes we'll pull out board games or card games or other types of games and we might consider this is one of the alternatives to our D&D nights.

[@jim52970]

I think the same thing. I have Runehammers ICRPG and ran it one night I had friends over one weekend for a campfire. I got rained out. Can't really on a spur set-up and run D&D game. So ICRPG filled that gap and my friends loved it! It was simple, fast to learn and still allows for the RPG aspect. I think Dungeon World might fit the same bill aswell.

[@jerramiemiller]

Good Video as always. Ive been trying for a long time to adapt something to modern/scifi/post apoc. This seems to be much quicker and streamlined. However, it doesn't account for a criticals. Any thoughts on this specifially using the DW mechanic? Or does combat speed account for these types of big hits due to only a 25% chance of success without consequence?

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

The big hit IS the critical. My thoughts on the DW mechanic is new players love it, older ones want their d20s. For rules-light apocalypse I recommend "Death is the New Pink." Nice little game. Index Card RPG also comes with sci-fi rules. Thanks for watching!

[@TorianTammas]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I have had different experiences as old and new players did not warm up to it.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

TorianTammas Full disclosure: my players HATED it and let me know. They wanted their d20s back!

[@agsilverradio2225]

The armor absorbing dammage part, sounds *more* complicated than armorclass.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

It CAN be in a large group.

[@zaqcausey8514]

Dungeoncraft is the best channel on KZbin Hope that does enough Im so drunk

[@henrykorvus6954]

I see DCC in the background, please share your opinion on that game.

[@shamanicdreams9701]

Thanks for this review! Just ordered this game. Seems very interesting.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

You're welcome. It's very innovative and I loved it (even though my players didn't).

[@TironCruvi]

Great review! Have you ever read/played Apocalypse World, the game that the engine running DW comes from? I've had so many great sessions with that game, and so I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

No. Have not had the privilege.

[@CJ_esc.artist]

Wow, going back to this video again after all these years. Do you still play Dungeon World Professor DC?

[@craigsisco1894]

Thanks for the review! And presenting the masses with a different way to dungeon delve. I bought this book solely for the Fronts section. A valuable tool for modeling a living breathing world for the heroes to thwart the Doom…or Dooms. 😅

[@jim52970]

These days people having extra time to play a RPG like D&D is limited. People today also expect things to move along faster than did say 20 years ago. I love D&D, don't get me wrong! But speeding things up helps a ton. This is why I became a fan of Hank @ runehammer (formerly drunks and dragons). He had some great ideas and input for DM's of 5e to speed up encounters. His own ICRPG is even better yet and highly recommend it for a one night one time RPG night shot. I have to look into Dungeon World now. Great review!!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

I like ICRPG even better than DW. Hank's the man. Jim, you bring up a GREAT point about games moving faster than they did 20 years ago. Movies move faster, so should games. My players have work and family engagements. They want to be able to get through a 5-6 encounter game in 2 hours. Thanks for commenting!

[@michaelcremin6496]

I just grabbed a copy of this game. The longer I play, the more I value simplicity and emergent stories.

[@RottenMechGaming]

Great review thanks for the info. Dungeon World is a great game!

[@terrybeal2252]

I totally want to run a Macho Women with guns campaign. 😂😂

[@jordanb1153]

against the multiple goblins would the fighter be able to attack all of the goblins or just 1 per roll?

[@trouqe]

I just recently been following Adam Koebel and also just recently heard that he created Dungeon World. I knew little of it but heard great things. Thanks for the review and I may play this with my own friends.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Glad it was helpful.

[@GattacaKain]

When creating a character, can a player examine the rules and determine the best way to do what they want, a.k.a optimizing?

[@themcchuck8400]

If your players NEED to roll a d20, then you can about the same results as follows. 1: Critical failure (You can't have your strawberries without your bananas.) 2-10: Failure 11-16: Success with complication 17-19: Success 20: Critical success (Players do love their nat' 20s.) You can simplify the system even further into a single d6 roll. 1-3: Failure 4-5: Success with complication 6: Success

[@bonzwah1]

I think the choice to combine attacking and defending into a single roll may be a turn off to some players. Would be fairly simple to split it up. Have the player roll their action and dont deal damage to the player. Then, roll defense at the end of the turn to determine if there is damage. The rhythm is nice too. The gm can narrate a cinematic attack and rhe player gets to describe how they will attempt to defend against it. - It doubles the amount of rolling, bur it might be worth it if people dont like the feel of having one roll be both attack and defense.

[@cybermerlyn2]

I have often thought that substituting the dice mechanics from the Quest rpg into Dungeon World would give players the feel of the d20 rolls with the resolution of DW mechanics. I would be surprised if someone out there is not already doing this.

[@commonweakness9060]

very interesting vid. and a lot of great comments. having never played DW it seems like there is more freedom for both players and DM's. some people will be into that...others not so much. when it comes to the 2d6 vs 1d20, why not convert a d20 to the same % that work for the 2d6? a little homebrew to get what you want...everybody is happy-ish. thanks again for the vid. i will be buying a DW book today.

[@paladox1771]

Well you're the DM, so you could reduce the partial failure rolls to 4, 5, and 6, and the 7, 8, and 9 rolls could be changed to partial success. The partial success could then be only half damage, or perhaps nothing happens. You could even judge it on the fly, saying that an 8 or 9 does half damage, but on a 6 or 7 everyone dodges and the fight continues.

[@ARKavli]

I've still got my OG Matcho Women with Guns! And Renegade Nuns on Wheels and Batwinged Bimbos from Hell. I think there might be another that came out after the novelty wore off for me. But the system's not too bad. :)

[@tristanevans5024]

Love Love Love Dungeon World and the companion piece Class Warfare

[@paavohirn3728]

The basic mechanic is fantastic! It's genius! It's a lot of fun for players and the GM. But the character creation and advancement are really unsatisfactory and it's one more system where the damage reducing armor doesn't work. When you have a small damage die and can't get through armor, that's worse than too high AC you rarely hit. After trying DW out I've never stopped trying to bring the best elements into a d20 system.

[@matthewmarks4868]

As a DM, I don't have time for a D&D campaign. If my players wanna play, then they are gonna play Dungeon World. It is too easy to run, with too much flexibility for all the players. My only complaint is.... No. No complaints. A game played is better than no game at all. ;)

[@TheSlickMachine]

Bought the book thanks to this review. Great channel.

[@glenfairen2996]

In the stack of books behind you, there is a purple hardback. What is that?

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Glen Fairen Dungeon Crawl classics.

[@glenfairen2996]

Dungeon Craft thanks. I have heard nothing but good about that one. Might have to snag it

[@strygian192]

Prof DM, forgive me if someone has already suggested this but how about this conversion: 2d6 10-12 success 7-9 success with complication 1-6 fail, gain 1xp Use instead d20 20 critical success , monster gains complication 15-19 success 11-15 success with complication 1-10 fail, gain 1xp

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Thanks for commenting. I LOVE talking dice probabilities! I tried a similar conversion myself. the problem is 2d6 will produce a "7" 40% of the time and a "6" or "8" 30% of the time. I know this because I play a lot of Monopoly. A d20 will produce ANY number exactly 5% of the time, making the yield curve too broad. Also, it would screw up the Target # concept I take from Index Card RPG, which I think is a better game. That's just my two cents. I want to make it clear I REALLY respect you and think you deserve a reply. Cheers!

[@strygian192]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 No worries, I've watched your video where you went thru some stats bonuses and number translations like a boss and I'm sure you are correct, was just thinking how to address the d20 addiction. Actually I've watched most of your videos, as I have just started running a game after a 20 year hiatus and find your videos concise and beyond helpful. Hands down my favorite channel for game content. Has given me hope to adding some seriously cool mechanics and crafts to our game, thank you for replying and doing these videos!

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

@@strygian192 I don't think you can beat the d20 addiction. I used to play WFRP, but my players LOVE d20s. It's just too iconic.

[@strygian192]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 agreed! 2d6 is the methadone of the dice world. Players will soon be back in the streets, joining 5e and Pathfinder games with strangers just to get a fix. Ordering index card RPG book instead

[@dalerimkunas]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 the point that we want to emulate though is the RESULT of the roll, not the number. i.e. fail, succes with complication or succeed, and we want the "center" (success with complication) result to be the "stickiest", or most likely to happen. They way to do this with d20 is to just make success 17-20, success with complication 8-16 and fail 1-7. This gives you more of a bell curve to the result, which is the 3 categories making the odds of success with complication more likely.

[@Dinofaustivoro]

I had to come up with a simplified heavily narrative system to play with new players by Discord for the pandemic. They had zero experience in role-playing games so I could come up with anything. Without knowing Dungeon World, I created a 2d6 system with 4 posible outcomes (success, modest success, barely convenient, failure); 3d6 discard one for Adv/Dis; 15 stats pick 3 for each roll; dice rolls are rare, they resolve entire scenes not individual actions, even for combat.

[@jbirkins]

The natural 20 thing is pure pavlovian conditioning. It's a dopamine hit just like a slot machine jackpot or social media like. It will understandably take time for the conditioning to build. Once it does, players will be shouting "boxcars!" even though in craps a 12 is usually a bad thing.

[@arcubal]

I feel like a d20 based roll could still substitute the 2d6 roll (keeping that traditional joy of rolling a d20, let alone a crit) by looking at the chances of rolling in one of 3 categories. If a 6 or less chance is roughly 40% (based on probability charts), a 7-9 is also 40%, and a 10-12 roughly 20%, wouldn't the solution simply be to map the categories across the d20 number ranges of '1-8', '9-16' and '17-20' respectively? And it's up to you then to make the crit 20 a unmitigated success (and then some) to truly make the cinematic epicness shine...

[@snakeoi1sean]

I will buy a copy based off of this review. Thank you.

[@zachanderson5914]

Amazing review, thanks!

[@blinddog4288]

Always time well spent watching your videos. I think I would love the game but fear my players wouldn't. Like you mentioned - everyone likes rolling a d20 and scoring the crit.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

It's a GREAT way to introduce new players to the game. Very quick combat means more play in less time.

[@jackplant8045]

I played a few sessions recently and really enjoyed it, the rest of the party... not so much. I've been playing D&D since 2nd edition so was used to characters having not too many options mechanically and needing to come up with 'moves' as part of the narrative. I think players used to 5e where every character has a lot of action and bonus action choices felt that they weren't able to do as much with such a simple rule set.

[@hoserhouserules7291]

greetings Prof. DM! i love what you are doing and saying and agree 100%. i also love Dungeon World and agree those are the rules i would have written- instead of constantly modifying/simplifying existing rules (which is pretty much my thing). i am GREATLY PERTURBED your experienced players did not like the rules- as i expect to be running a DW campaign in a couple of months. i have been playing rpgs since 1974, and think it's time for a return to many of the DW concepts. can you give me any advice as to how to make DW completely popular with experienced players? i have already established natural 2s and 12s as crits.

[@taragnor]

I've seen experienced players love DW. The ones that tend to dislike it tend to be people that want tactical combat and complex character design, because DW just doesn't offer that. The players that enjoy fast-paced action and more of an emphasis on story (as opposed to the board-gamey feel) will love DW.

[@hoserhouserules7291]

@@taragnor thank you very much! that helps.

[@Kill2Hard101]

Professor what's your feelings about 13th Age? We started playing it and it's replaced our core rules.

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

It's a good game. It was demoed to me by Jonathan Tweet.

[@Kill2Hard101]

@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Yeah and the system supports your UDT. It also gets rid of skills like you've suggested in other videos. Thanks for the response

[@HowtoRPG]

Thanks.

[@oldercloudify]

I ran Dungeon World with my own published setting, Mort Tanis. It's a fun game, but it breaks down when you have larger fights. I'd definitely use miniatures and terrain to give the PCs a better sense of what's going on. My PCs didn't like the game either, to be honest. For some reason, one of them hated the term Move. Semantics.

[@leftistadvocate9718]

their hp can go up if their con goes up

[@lucaskorte2202]

It does make me a little sad that ttrpg players don't want monster illustrations in their manuals. As a professional illustrator, one of the things that inspired me to draw and take up art was the old ad&d monster manual from the 70s. Feels like one less opportunity for me to make something cool, and one less opportunity for people to make a living. I'm sometimes disappointed by how barren the art direction can be in some game manuals. I'm surprised to find out people prefer that.

[@kravenbludd]

That figurine reminds me of Michonne from the Walking Dead.

[@johnwhite2412]

Hit points: I believe a character’s hit points is based on his class and her con modifier - not con score.

[@luke_skywhopper]

I had to do a double -take reading the rules the first time, but it is based on class die + constitution score.