Dungeon Degenerates: The Hand of Doom - The Traditional Review

[@StephanBeal]

16:30 + regarding this being an exceptional first design. i've backed over 50 KS gaming projects, and DD is easily the one which has pleasantly surprised me the most in terms of expectations vs what was delivered. Even if it had been a "bad game", it would be gorgeous to look at, and that's _kind of_ what i was expecting to receive. Wrong! It's so far beyond what many products from larger, more established companies/designers are. Two seldom-praised aspects of the design/rulebook are the index and table of contents. Both are absolutely great, and lead me exactly to what i'm looking for 95% of the time.

[@StephanBeal]

8:55 regarding the lore: the "dictionaries" and worldbooks available from Goblinko are some of the best RPG-worldbook-style reading i've ever seen. Both are (except for two which come with more game missions) completely free of gaming mechanics, and could easily be used as the basis for an RPG campaign.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Stephan Beal I completely agree. I think the game could be run as an RPG as is, without having to do much else.

[@StephanBeal]

5:02 to 5:10 - that quote needs to go down in the annals of boardgame review history as one of the Great Truths (and exceptionally well-put): "The form and the function don't always meet up in a way that is conducive to the playing of the game."

[@TheDungeonDive]

Stephan Beal haha. Right on. Thank you. It is something that I don’t think enough people talk about.

[@StephanBeal]

It seems to me that, at least in the BGG forums (i don't do Facebook), that i'm one of the very few people who's not afraid to say something critical about the game or Goblinko's practices (e.g. their flat-out refusal to publish their worldbooks in PDFs, which would make them accessible to us "foreign devils" on the other side of the ocean). i do so BECAUSE i hold the game in such high regards, not because i dislike it. If i dislike a game, i don't participate in its forums! i have, several times, gotten ragged on in the BGG forums for saying something critical or other (but that's okay - i'm not there to make friends).

[@TheDungeonDive]

Stephan Beal fans often confuse being critical of something with not liking something. I think it’s because critical thought and criticism as s skill is not taught to people. People don’t know how to take criticism of the things they love without being personally offended. There hasn’t been a great film critic since Roger Ebert died and the days of Pauline Kael. The art of and appreciation for good criticism is dead.

[@lonl123]

I am extremely late to the party, but discovered this game 2 days ago, by chance. It boggles my mind as I own and play Cave Evil and Cryptic Explorers and love these types of games....yet was totally ignorant of DD's existence. Anyway, after looking at the game for just a bit on BGG, I knew I had to have it....ALL OF IT...and then commenced to buy everything (Including the Lore books)... everything except the miniatures which with how cool the standees are aren't really needed to make the game look any cooler. Because I did have to buy one expansion on EBAY, the whole deal with shipping has cost around $300 or so, but I feel its money well spent as I know even before playing it, I'm gonna love it. It's all been shipped and I should receive everything by early next week. Have watched all your videos on the game now and can't wait to go right into the campaign. I know you have moved on with other games, but I would like to see you do a full campaign using all the rules...that would be very entertaining.

[@Kamion991]

Have you had a chance to play this? You like it?

[@lonl123]

@@Kamion991 I got all my stuff finally months ago, and started playing and I love it! It's a fantastic game...to me as a solo player, it feels much more like an RPG than a board game...and the game creates stories very easily. Extremely thematic and the art....my god the art is fantastic. I probably spent way too much money for all of it, but I am extremely happy with it. If you don't have it, I suggest getting the lore books...It will immerse you even more into this crazy ass world.

[@Kamion991]

@@lonl123 thanks for answering so fast! 5th KS of DD is on and i'm thinking of pledging the base game and some expansions.

[@john-qz3fu]

I just got into it as well. I got the game used with a few expansions for $15 + shipping. It’s a fun game… 7.5/10 for me. Not going to pursue extra content I’m ok with what I got , fun game.

[@billybobbills]

Great review. I just discovered this game last week. I fell in love with the look and was happy to see Goblinko was having a 40% off sale for Black Friday. I ordered the game and all the add-ons. Now I just have to wait for it to arrive.

[@TheDungeonDive]

It's such a great game!

[@tobyr21]

Daniel, I watched this review first before I watched your free-flowing review. You pushed me over the edge! I bought in, and I'm looking forward to playing this game. - Toby

[@TheDungeonDive]

Great! Hope you enjoy it.

[@alexandre4115]

Hey Daniel ! Thank you so much for your great videos, i always watch them carefully because i'm sitting on your expertise and i learned so much about dungeon crawlers in general with your point of view ! :) Because of you, i bought Dungeon Degenerates and Dark Venture ! I'm thrilled to play with very soon ! Keep on doing what you do the best ! Best regards !

[@TheDungeonDive]

Thanks! Hope you like the games. Please don't confuse me for an expert, though. :) I'm just a guy who likes stuff. :)

[@alexandre4115]

@@TheDungeonDive You're the kind of guy involved in your passion for board games and that's the way you show it ! ;) We like the way you share it !

[@TheDungeonDive]

Thanks! I just don't want people thinking I'm some kind of board game expect. There is so much I don't know about the hobby, even this genre! I just like to share my passion for these games with other people.

[@alexandre4115]

@@TheDungeonDive We agree ! ;)

[@strongmantrutnov6917]

I bought the game becouse this review from US during sale, but after some customs I paid nearly original price. We actually played two camapings with my wife and I have to say that, its absolutely worth ! Only think that I missing are random dungeons, crypts, caves, ruins etc. which you can crawl with same rules for combat and movement but different danger cards. Hmmm... we will have to make some :) Thanks a lot for this review

[@TheDungeonDive]

Thanks for watching!

[@manilapcgaming7217]

Been wanting to get this game! That Logan Roy sweater is awesome btw \m/ (from Succession)

[@DieNische]

I had the chance to play the second printing of it. Daniel, you are so right. DD is an amazing achievement and it puts all other adventure game to shame. The combination of the breathing world as a seperate game engine you can ( and have to) interact with in addition to the whole campaign structure. I am blown away. And DD makes that so well that I even can compare it to games like Brimstone which defines itself in world building as well. DD is that good that I Think about selling games like Brimstone as well, because it succeeds in creating a living world that impresselivy. Nonetheless: Daniel, you are so right. A masterpiece. :)

[@TheDungeonDive]

Die Nische right on! Can you believe this is the first game these guys have ever made? Insane.

[@DieNische]

@@TheDungeonDive Indeed. Remember, there is a new KS for DD going live in the future. :)

[@TheDungeonDive]

Die Nische Sean’s art book is live right now. Acid Vomit.

[@DieNische]

@@TheDungeonDive I know. But there is a third printing KS in the queue.

[@ByDylanYoung]

@TheDungeonDive If you had to choose between Dungeon Degenerates and Dark Venture Battle of the Ancients, which would you lean towards and why?

[@TheDungeonDive]

Dungeon Degenerates. It’s the better pure solo game.

[@ByDylanYoung]

@@TheDungeonDive Thanks for the speedy reply. Instinctively, Dungeon Degenerates is more appealing to me. DV:BotA is being offered in a trade but I just don't think I have the patience for it (for whatever reason). Whereas DD just gives me that inexplicable frisson. In a related but-not-so-related question, do you have any opinions about the Assassin's Creed board game (the one based on the V-Commandoes system)?

[@ByDylanYoung]

@@TheDungeonDive That was sense of it. And I simply get more of a frisson from DD. I've been offered DV:BotA in a trade but it doesn't connect with me as much. In a related but not-so-obvious question, do you have an opinion about the Assassin's Creed BG (the one that uses the V-Sabotage system)?

[@TheDungeonDive]

I have no opinion on the AC game. I do think VC is cool, though.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Both are great games, but if I had to choose one to keep it would DD.

[@sethpeterson8261]

Rewatching this, trying to decide if I need to drop several hundred for the all-in of the new KS campaign running now

[@weidinimagic]

After hearing your enthusiasm and looking into it I decided to buy the full package and am waiting for it so Thank you! One question what are your thoughts about Dungeon Alliance as a Dungeon crawl? Thank you

[@TheDungeonDive]

I don’t like Dungeon Alliance at all. It’s basically analysis paralysis the game, a total brain burn.

[@healthyzombie]

Great review, man! I agree with all of your points, positive and negative. Keep the quality videos coming.

[@markoreilly4433]

Very nice and considered review. I noticed Folklore the affliction on the shelf there. What are your thoughts on that game?, I'm sorely tempted to purchase it . ( already have Dungeon Degenerates).

[@televiper11]

Thank you for highlighting the colorblindness issue for this game. As a colorblind person, I appreciate it. Sadly, many board games are released with no consideration for this issue, rendering them either unplayable or needing modification to enjoy. Colorblindness is common and I hope more publishers take it seriously. I really want to play this game: the theme, the art all speak to me but it is an expensive risk given my condition. I am also wary of the use of fascist imagery in some of the art, particularly Nazi symbols on some of the enemy cards.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Color blindness issues are unfortunately prevalent in a lot of games. The use of fascist imagery stems from the outsider punk movement that the creators are part of. In life, they are super anti-fascists. The imagery is part of the oppression in the game's world, so part of your quest is to destroy it! It's similar to how these things are used in games like Fortune and Glory, or Indiana Jones movies.

[@televiper11]

@@TheDungeonDive While I understand that argument, and am decently versed in the outsider art movement, I see that edgy use of fascist imagery in order “shock the squares” to be outdated at best and not what I want to defend to my gaming group. Not saying its an issue beyond my own personal taste, however. Just want to be clear on that.

[@hankvonhelvete2894]

Thanks for your work to bring DD to a larger audience (like me)! Can you elaborate on how the Guides and Dictionaries enhance the actual gameplay? Is it really worth the cost (which is added up the same as the core game!) or is it more like a nice to have bonus? What is your opinion? Thanks a lot for your help - considering getting the books on the new Kickstarter. Bummer that they don't compile it in one single large Würstreich-Encyclopaedia! After all, if you start buying them, you want to have them all. :)

[@TheDungeonDive]

A few of the books have new missions, but mostly they just contain lore and information that helps to flesh out the world and its inhabitants. They won't add much to gameplay, but they add a lot in terms of atmosphere and feel.

[@hankvonhelvete2894]

The Dungeon Dive Thanks! That was what I expected. I'll try the game first and if I begin to degenerate, I'll order the books! \m/

[@DieNische]

The next KS for the addon is live. Am I right that the minis are not neccesssary at all for enjoying the game? There are several books for this game but only 2 with new missions. Are these other books only for fluff or are they implented in gameplay in any sense? Such a fantastic video btw. :)

[@TheDungeonDive]

I actually don't like the minis, especially unpainted. I think the standees look much better. Two of the world books add 4 missions each, but most of it is just for fluff, but that's important for a game like this.

[@jonathana6298]

Is this game a better Eldritch Horror? I would also describe EH as a threat assessment game. In EH, you had to close gates. But other than the overall theme, very little was tied together in a play session itself. The only things tied to each Ancient One were the clue tokens and cultist monsters. (I've been falling out of love with EH lately and would rather play Mansions of Madness 2E if I wanted to play in that world.)

[@TheDungeonDive]

I think so. The campaign is great and I like the art and theme more.

[@eriksjogren800]

Thank you for the video

[@TheDungeonDive]

You're welcome

[@weidinimagic]

Hello I have been very interested in Dungeon Degenerates based on your high praise. But I only play solo and it sounds as if you seem to say that it would be to much for just one person to solo this using two characters? Since to order the full bundle is 277$ plus shipping despite my high interest but it has to be a game that I can solo. I must say I have been playing Folklore solo and did find it a bit overwhelming and find the combat a bit heavy.

[@TheDungeonDive]

This is easier to play solo than Folklore - not as much book keeping, and it is a better solo game. It is expensive though.

[@felipequinoneshoyos9603]

Hi everyone! How can I get the game and everything else? I live in Spain

[@jarcoreh]

Felipe, acaba de salir la tercera reimpresión del juego en kickstarter

[@ThePeyoteCoyote]

Great review! Thanks for sharing your experience with the game. I'm trying to convince myself to spend a million dollars on this game and it's just not working!

[@devonalfredo2327]

You all prolly dont care but does anybody know a tool to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow lost the password. I love any help you can offer me!

[@byronkaiden9188]

@Devon Alfredo Instablaster :)

[@StephanBeal]

1:41 puzzly games: but you have Andor and several expansions on your shelf. IMO it doesn't get much puzzlier than Andor.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Stephan Beal if you listen closely, I qualified the statement with “for the most part.” :) I talk about why I still like Andor in my Top 25, even though it is puzzly.

[@TheDungeonDive]

www.dungeondive.com/single-post/2018/01/03/Top-25-Tabletop-Games-of-All-Time

[@StephanBeal]

i unfortunately have to respectfully disagree :). While Andor has, quite possibly, the most concise and precise rulebook i've ever seen (the original German one, anyway - i haven't seen the English one), i played the game twice and severely dislike it because it's a puzzle. i don't like puzzles at all. i knew, from reviews, what it was going in, but figured i might like it anyway. Wrong :/. A great rulebook, though.

[@DieNische]

@@TheDungeonDive Wow. Great to see that Lost tomb is your number 2. :)

[@TheDungeonDive]

Die Nische it’s such a great game.

[@GeorgiosD90]

Generic rpg game hiding behind great artwork..... Pass.