Party Roles in Dungeons and Dragons 5e

MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarter.com/projects/... We take a look at the various roles a party might want to fill to be well rounded and balanced. We also discuss how many classes can bend to fight multiple roles.
This weeks episode is SPONSORED by Grim Hollow: the Monster Grimoire. check out the kickstarter here. bit.ly/3wy4AKd
DUNGEONS OF DRAKKENHEIM is coming to Kickstarter in 2021! We’re partnering with Ghostfire Games to publish the complete adventure for Fifth Edition.
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Time Stamps:
0:00 - Sponsor
0:53 - Intro
2:01 - Why is Party Role Important?
5:12 - Front Line
7:18 - The Beat Down
11:07 - Utility
12:59 - Support
15:26 - Investigator
19:02 - Negotiator
22:24 - Infiltrator / Explorer
25:29 - Conclusion
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[@MrIrrationalSmith]

"Which role does your character fit into?" Moon druid: yes

[@MachJacob343]

@@yueffstueff6542 That's what the puppy form is for.

[@rodrigofernandezrivera1028]

I was literally about to make this comment 🤣

[@tibot4228]

Tortle Moon Druid that skimps on Constitution/Dexterity in favor of Charisma.

[@JoaoVictor-ic3ht]

@@yueffstueff6542 I'm about to do that and I'm too hyped

[@geoffbarnes2590]

I raise you any high level artificer

[@Drocksas]

"The character you want to play will be able to lean into various roles..." Good sir, you underestimate my incompetence.

[@pinkliongaming8769]

I like how tells you it's what you want to play

[@Turai12]

I love being the support. Throwing haste on the paladin as a sorcerer, bless the barbarian as a cleric, inspire as a bard and then watch my party go to town is the best feeling.

[@Katio888]

I also love being the support role. I find a lot of people don’t always go for that, probably because they’re only helping and not getting the big damage in themselves. But I don’t mind. I know they only hit, or stayed in the fight, or made their saving throw because of me. Divine Soul Sorcerer X/Hexblade Warlock 2 was a great mix. A little offense from Warlock (which, four Eldritch blasts plus my charisma mod was not little by any means) and twinning Haste on the Fighter and Druid was often how I spent my time. Loved it.

[@ceiling_cat]

i too like buffing before going to town i actually think towns are hardest dungeons

[@altose5248]

I love Slow - I seem to get really lucky rolls with it and it makes a massive difference for the frontline characters so they can shine

[@KnicKnac]

Bringing crowd control too as support. Keep the minions off the squishy back line along with buffing the front line.

[@tyree9055]

I've always respected clerics, but rarely played them as my main character. After playing DDO and saving multiple parties' arses (nevermind taking on quests above our level), they've become more entertaining for me than any tank or frontline role. You literally are the one who's saving member's arses and protecting everyone, while protecting yourself at the same time. 😇👍

[@datrandomguy3253]

Barbarian: I would like to investigate how well this axe cuts through his skull. DM: You need to roll for attack first...

[@jamesmerkel1932]

Does a Barb/Rogue get to take 10 from reliable talent for that check?

[@joebobby8371]

They get to the 7th role , AHH THE NEGOTIATOR ...GENERAL KENOBI

[@siragon756]

The negotiator: *enters* Hello there !

[@wayneslater5531]

@@siragon756 *Greivous*: General Kenobi!

[@feywildheart2878]

The negotiations were short.

[@DunsmoreFamily]

Agressive negotiation

[@blingwraith6951]

@@DunsmoreFamily what are “aggressive negotiations”?

[@herrkrabbe148]

17:43 pro tip from a new DM, if you look in the PHB under chapter 7 page 178, if your players become stuck you can have one of them make a wisdom check to have a gut feeling of what course of action to follow. I use this whenever my players become unsure what to do.

[@saiyaddanapudi9216]

Not even INT to think things through. Just follow your instincts.

[@randysage8818]

This is awesome 😎

[@nickkowalski5209]

Yes, the classic Planescape Torment's "something tells you" tool

[@TheZandaz]

"Play the character you want to play" is lovely advice, unfortunately I am compelled to not be the same class as anyone else. Fortunately, I have two dozen character concepts already planned so I always manage to play something I want to.

[@HandyTammy548]

lol same, I have so many characters in my back log that im prepared to play anything the party needs. Sometimes im happy when a character of mine dies so I can select one that might fit better with the party comp.

[@andrewpeli9019]

With the subclasses, two characters of the same class can be drastically different. But regardless, every class (minus ranger) can be awesome!

[@brandf.7691]

Yes, but as someone who also has dozens of character concepts waiting to be played, are really ever able to play the one you were most excited for?

[@atomictree5000]

The curse of the forever DM.

[@TheZandaz]

@@andrewpeli9019 it's not even about that with me, it's just a source of incredible irritation/anxiety for me playing as the same class (or race, but to a lesser extent). But then again, I am waiting on an OCD assessment 😅

[@Leytier]

I still think it’s really important to ask ahead what the party looks like not just for balance but I don’t wanna step on people’s toes with how I’m going to roleplay my character

[@snazzyfeathers]

True

[@gordol66]

Agreed. I'm playing a Rogue this game because my group decided to shuffle roles around this time and no one else picked this up. (I normally play magic artillery.)

[@geniumme2502]

100% agree. it feels like a bit of an omission from the video tbh >.>

[@stevenmarko4769]

You can both be part of a Rogue type and the ranged Blaster by rolling up an Artillerist Artificer. You may not necessarily have Stealth, but you will be able to open locks, remove traps, etc.

[@KrSaPoww]

that's so true when a friend of mine made a bard to act as a negotiator and utility, both roles that i would do as a shadow sorcerer, I decided then to play as a pugilist battlemaster and be the frontline for my party, so she could have this spotlight in those situations

[@ilikelistentomusic]

I often let the « support » player who Hasted me Roll the attack or damage roll as a way to show how valuable his action was.

[@Hazel-xl8in]

that is a REALLY cool idea, gonna steal that next time i get hasted

[@tibot4228]

That's really cool!

[@parkeroneilbryant]

I like that!

[@starwarsnewsandmemes8289]

Not all heroes wear capes.

[@collegeoffoliage6776]

I definitely see where you're going and like that idea, but personally I play s lot of support and would find that slightly condescending or unnecessarily time consuming. It's definitely nice if the other player appreciates it though :)

[@dizzykincade7831]

Monty, I can’t express how much respect I have for you’re relentless commitment to the hoodie. It’s not just attire, it’s a lifestyle. Keep it up, homie.

[@Reestar-jv5jh]

The “Kick me” sign The enemy remover The Swiss Army...army The stumbling block chisel The genius The conflict avoidance system The snoop

[@xxXXRAPXXxx]

The *SEXY* one.

[@lolbots686]

me as a mystic

[@rompevuevitos222]

@@xxXXRAPXXxx Falls into conflict avoidance system (or as i chose to call it, C.A.S. (fuck you Sims)) The enemy can't fight you while lost in the passion of love (or just horny)

[@DazraelArianos]

@@rompevuevitos222 LoL makes me think of The Book of Erotic Fantasy from 3.5. Nothing takes down the enemies quite like a Mass Orgasmic Vibrations spell.

[@xxXXRAPXXxx]

@@DazraelArianos Captain Orgasmo sends his regards.

[@tinatoddbayerlpegg1815]

I've often thought about the fun of a small party made up solely of bards- a band, if you will. But through the various colleges, they actually are able to cover down on the various roles and compliment each other's skills and abilities.

[@nrdahn]

I LOVE this idea!!! Boom! there is your Bowie Bard.

[@kingduckie9135]

I now it's a year later so you probably won't respond be please explain how the hard can fill any role beyond Face, Investigator and Infiltration? And why want you'd do if the bard just went whispers with expertise in investigation and just did all 3 in one character? I really need help understanding a bard because I can only see them as the most limited class

[@WalkingTalkingBean]

@@kingduckie9135 Valor/Swords bard for the combat roles. Lore bard for extra utility (extra skills + additional magical secrets. Bards already have great utility, so it's not even necessary). They all get bardic inspiration, but if you want even more support, maybe an eloquence bard for improved inspirations (or another lore bard to steal some cleric spells). There you have it. Creation, Glamour etc. also have their uses. Bards can basically do anything. Basically, magical secrets can cover almost everything.

[@kingduckie9135]

@@WalkingTalkingBean I don't really get it though because everything that can do any other class does better

[@faultyfilter5747]

@@kingduckie9135 Bards are a jack of all trades, master of none. They can do literally everything, but someone can probably do it better. That doesn’t mean they’re incompetent in that area, though. They can still be very good at the role they’re filling.

[@thetimebinder]

"No single player is going to be able to cover all of the different party roles..." Paladin/Hexblade: "And I took that personally."

[@richardwhaler8717]

Paladin Hexblade is pretty poor as a support character IME, good damage dealer and good frontliner but skill and utility inept.

[@thetimebinder]

@@richardwhaler8717 Depends on what spells you take from Warlock. I tend to take utility spells from Warlock as well as Invocations that give me leveled spells as at-wills like Detect Thoughts.

[@richardwhaler8717]

@@thetimebinder warlock utility stuff isn't that great though, and with so few spells known, and the lack of spellslots you're kind of handicapping yourself spending them on utility that doesn't upcast well. Plus lack of ritual casting is big drawback for trying to be utility as a lock. And none will help you navigate through the woods or avoid an ambush.

[@richardwhaler8717]

IMO the closest you can get to "do it all" is Fey Ranger (add wis to social skills and some extra proficiencies) + Moondruid (WS can cover physical stuff and tanking, spells for utility & support) depending on the level breakdown could use Ranger archery for DPS. Though a Scout Rogue x totem Barbarian is up there as well (6 sets of Expertise, extra proficiencies from Barbarian, rage & Evasion for tanking..)

[@scraverX]

My Tabaxi Gloomstalker Ranger covered a lot... in very specific ways. Mostly because he was stealthy (Tabaxi Gloomstalker.. Cloak of Elvenkind) and highly mobile. "Shit the Druid is down, why is the druid down? Ok I'm not attacking this round, run over there, pick him up run out." "Oh the Sorcerer is on the floor... again? Druid is busy with a concentration spell. Run over Pick up sorcerer." His main role was actually high mobility beatdowns. "No, you don't get to run away and heal coz I'm going to chase you down and spank you."

[@flog353]

Ah yes, revivify and heal, spells that take away those really nasty status effects like dying and dead =P

[@olafgurke4699]

I mean, we all know, that death is the best CC.

[@bombboy200]

Playing a sorcerer in the campaign I'm currently in. I'm filling so many roles right now due to my other two party members being extremely combat oriented (opting for damage and tankiness rather than control). I may not be dealing the most damage but that twinned haste combined with the battlefield control that sorcerers have as well as the social skills from charisma makes me really glad I played a sorcerer.

[@leahwilton785]

I feel this! Right now, playing a cleric alongside a monk/rogue, barbarian, and fighter. Rogue is great for certain exploration and stealth style infiltration but oh boy do I feel like i'm juggling a lot of hats

[@nidohogg4783]

I thought I was going to be a heal bot when I chose cleric. I'm damage, utility, tank, and healer. Clerics are pog.

[@corsaircaruso471]

I just started playing again after having not played since 4e. I wanted to play support, focusing on healing, so I went Life Domain cleric with a Druid dip for Goodberry. I have, most combats, been much closer to damage and tank, with back up utility. Healing has been pretty far down on my list of priorities, tbh, especially since our DM has been averaging one combat between long rests.

[@shinkoryu14]

By your definition, I fall into the utility classification. My bard's most used spell is prestidigitation and she constantly amuses the party with the inventive ways she comes up with to use it in combat. For example, we once fought a necromancer who attacked us by summoning a ghost wyvern, and she used prestidigitation to make the necromancer smell like roast meat. The DM was so amused by it that she gave the wyvern concentration checks every round for the rest of the fight, and if it failed it would attack the necromancer instead.

[@jimbaker6252]

Just started playing an Armorer Artificer and it's incredibly fun being both the damage absorbing tank AND the big brain support. While I don't have as big a health pool as a Barbarian or Paladin would, I have so many tools and spells at my disposal to mitigate or ignore damage that it ends up not mattering much.

[@thecharmer5981]

This is why I love artificer

[@friendlyneighborhoodspider5131]

I'm about to join a campaign as a hill dwarf armorer and I have an 18 in con and heavy armor master. It's going to be beautiful.

[@jacktom3799]

@@friendlyneighborhoodspider5131 so no die?

[@friendlyneighborhoodspider5131]

@@jacktom3799 yup. I just wade into the enemies and say 'try to kill me,' but they can't.

[@jacktom3799]

@@friendlyneighborhoodspider5131 makes sense

[@dm_curt]

I stopped asking "What do we need?" when it's my turn to make a character, because I got sick of being quasi-assigned a character class and ask "What do we have?".

[@carsonrush3352]

Don't ask at all. Just make the character that you want to play. It makes for some super funny campaigns. We once had a party where we had 4 rogues and 1 sorcerer. It was nuts! We also had another one shot where everyone was a full caster: 1 cleric, 2 warlocks, a bard, and a mystic. We didn't need a frontline, because our high initiatives led to us wiping half the enemy forces on the first turn of combat, provided that the 3 face characters hadn't sweet talked their way past hostilities.

[@Chefrabbitfoot]

I've only been a player twice (both campaigns still going currently) and both times I waited to pick last so I could be the "well what are we missing?" character. If I ever play in another campaign, I'm playing what I want without asking.

[@toni2309]

@@carsonrush3352 How has this worked out for you roleplay-wise? In my experience not discussing who you play and especially your motivations and ideals can easily lead to the party just not working together and splitting up.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@carsonrush3352 This sounds fun!

[@mortenbrandtjensen6470]

I lile that approach - what do we have, what roles do you have and which roles donyou have?

[@SilverFoxR]

I wanted to get my friends to do an all Artificer party... 4 characters, each a different subclass. If you look at the subclasses of Artificer, they really cover a large part of what you need. Alchemists can be support, Artillerists can be your blasters, Battle Smiths can do damage and exploration and Armourers can be your front-liners. Also, they're all utility, are commonly proficient in Tinkerer's Tools (and Thieves tools), so they can do most of the roles. Finally... you've got a party of mad scientists running around and how cool is that?

[@DrCinnabon]

4 man combo? EZ. Artificer - Armorer, Artificer -Artillerist, Artificer - Battlesmith, and Artificer - Alchemist. Your entourage consists of metal dogs, walking turrets, flying cats and WAY too many magic items.

[@brannenpfister2579]

Twilight cleric + Peace Cleric is pretty much unbeatable. Slap those two on any team and watch them Roll any encounter. Clerics broke dawg

[@shinybugg9156]

@@brannenpfister2579 true story. A whole party of clerics with different domains would kill it in any campaign

[@dylandugan76]

The all-wizard party and the all-cleric party would like to know your location.

[@zgstudiogames3206]

@@brannenpfister2579 Clerics are well-known to be the most powerfull class in DnD. I think that Twilight domain is most powerfull ofc and then it's a draw between Life and Peace and would place Forge or Tempest on the fourth.

[@PUNishment777]

@@zgstudiogames3206 life domain sucks, phb summon spells are what is strongest, a third level conjure animals can do 100+ dpr on its own easily

[@bray2964]

Tough one Smart one Quiet one There's your basis

[@NightmareDetective]

* Sassy one You forgot the face

[@Calebgoblin]

Red at OSP is proud of you

[@Calebgoblin]

@@NightmareDetective some D&D parties ain't got a face and it shows

[@Calebgoblin]

Red at OSP is proud of you

[@FionnKirwan]

Usually play the mad one

[@darienb1127]

most D&D parties I have been in has been like: 1 person is the Support and the Utility, 3-4 people are Front Liners/The Beat Down, and one person is literally everything else.

[@dm_curt]

Yep.

[@alexwarlock5480]

celestial warlock as support, utility, with a hint of investigator, along with infiltrator via pact of chain....... P.S.: Beatdown via Eldritch Blast, a literally one man army

[@ecsburneraccount1705]

My character is the genius and beat-down

[@JGRICH61]

Aint that the truth

[@DigDoug56]

Before watching: having a crappy work day. *Sees new dungeon dudes video "Thank God it's Thursday"

[@scythe0925]

THIS

[@lejandario7779]

Is it Thursday yet?

[@stephanshaw6201]

So I'm playing my first game, & as a druid I turned into a dog to cheer up a sad kid, he ended up actually telling me why he was sad, & that led to the druid finding out there's a cave in the woods that can enter a mansion other than the actually entrance... we are inside & now we wait...

[@Noodlezz95]

ah, the phandalin part of lost mines of phandelver can be resolved in this way too.

[@isaacgraff8288]

That is awesome

[@elbruces]

Regardless of your character class/subclass or spell load-out, you can always be an effective party "healer" by simply buying a medicine kit, taking the medicine skill and/or taking the healer feat. Rogues have tons of skills they to spare, and fighters get extra feats as they advance, for example.

[@MrTailson1]

My Sorcerer is the sudo-healer of the group between proficiency with an alchemist and herbalism kit to make potions and having the Healer feat. We have two paladins and even a Cleric (not the full party, just included) with mostly healing spells, but I think I've more often than not taken time to heal everyone outside of combat while the other two do so during it.

[@slimee8841]

"So which role does your character fit into?" Wizard: Yes

[@geniumme2502]

Bard: Hey wizard thats my line!

[@DungeonDudes]

I actually agree with this. But a party of 4 wizards can all pick schools and spells that lean them more towards filling one of those roles, which would make really dynamic gameplay. I would so be here for an evoker, diviner, illusion, and necromancer campaign.

[@slimee8841]

@@DungeonDudes Don’t forget Bladesinger, 27 armor class without actual armor is really usefull

[@geniumme2502]

@@DungeonDudes as slimee mentioned Bladesinger. I think the main difficulty with all wizards is social, cause no charisma kinda hurts. I mean spells help somewhat but not all the way? early on single target damage will suffer heavily. Magic missile is just not sufficient - and after a few casts you are stuck with firebolts :P

[@binolombardi]

@@geniumme2502 the spells enhanced ability and skill empowerment could probably go a long way. Especially when the 4 theoretical wizards have so many slots between each other.

[@Faircrow]

dm:"soo what are you?" Sorcadin Hexblade: "Yes"

[@geniumme2502]

Someone wrote a similar joke about wizards and about bards. And I disagreed. But I can absolutely get behind this one haha

[@eliasvernieri]

nothing good realy :P just everything better than everyone else.. until i get out of fuel :P

[@randomneck-romancer3144]

I mean it depends on levels, we talkin just a few in sorcerer? If so then not much exploration to be found there sadly

[@nulllex0099]

Wtf did I just read XDDDD

[@daniellins4114]

@@geniumme2502 someone wrote about moon druids as well

[@lilithvampyre1716]

Me and my brother are playing a campaign. I'm a Gnome Artillerist Artificer. He's a Aarakocra Barbarian. His character and mine essentially developed a baby harness so that he can carry me while he flies and I just fire my flamethrower and cast ranged spells while in the air. Its great.

[@funsizedkilljoy42]

The Negotiator is one of my favorite rolls to fill. I'm playing an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer in one game, character is a noble with a mercantile background. We keep confounding our GM who expects us to struggle our way through hostile areas and towns but I talk everyone down with extremely believable cover stories he can't refute. And that's without me even having to delve into Aberrant Mind's wonderful bag of tricks.

[@jurekovacic1739]

I play an aberrant mind too and I am having so much fun. The amount of times I saved my party from being killed is amazing. But I am struggling to connect utility, the beat down and negotiator together. But gosh darn it is fun

[@KnicKnac]

I'd be interested in a video of your guy's four man party combos. That'd be a fun brainstorming video.

[@kevinbaird6705]

Seconded. And since you guys asked us to, here are a few combos. I'm doing trios or duos instead as a mental exercise. 1. Paladin for Front Line, Beat Down, and Negotiator 2. Lore Bard for Investigator, Utility, and Support 3. Monk with Criminal Background (looking back to 1e) for Utility and Infiltrator/Explorer 1. Moon Druid for Beat Down, Support, and Infiltrator/Explorer 2. Battle Smith Artificer for Front Line, Utility, and Investigator 1. Barbarian or Fighter for Front Line and Beat Down 2. Sorcerer and/or Warlock for Support and Negotiator 3. Ranger or Arcane Trickster Rogue for Utility, Investigator, and Infiltrator/Explorer And you can pretty much put a Cleric anywhere, depending on the details.

[@Calebgoblin]

I was J U S T researching this topic earlier today! Normally I would tell people to stop reading my mind but you dudes are welcome to keep doing it

[@cruxruber7054]

Legit! I’ve been looking for a video like this for the past week! Then the dungeon dudes show up*: “No problem, man. We’ve got you. We’ll upload this video right now.” Pretty cool. I’ve been playing an Oath of Devotion Paladin in a party with a druid, a wild magic sorcerer, and a monk. Now I realize we don't have to force our characters to cover every base. We just have to be smart with an additional skill or two we can be good at/lean into.

[@Chefrabbitfoot]

0:00 Sponsor 0:50 Intro 2:00 Why roles are important 5:12 Front liner 7:19 The Beat down 11:08 Utility 13:00 Support 15:27 Investigator 19:03 Negotiator 22:26 Infiltrator/Explorer 25:31 Conclusion

[@kellenbigman]

Doing the good work 🙏

[@jugglejunk]

@@kellenbigmanWouldn't an artificer/fae wanderer be able to fulfill all of these roles? Front liner=artificer, The Beat Down=artificer supplemented with ranger, utility=artificer and some ranger in other areas, Support=artificer and some ranger in other areas, Investigator=artificer, negotiator=fae wanderer and finally Infiltrator/Explorer=mostly ranger supplemented with artificer, because they get disguise self.

[@kellenbigman]

@@jugglejunk your point? Why are you replying to me? I was merely appreciating the above time map of the video. That said... No single character can be all of those at the same time bud. Besides, as long as you're aware of those roles needing to be filled by the party as a whole is the important bit. Who cares how it gets done, as long as it's achieved.

[@jugglejunk]

@@kellenbigman I appreciate his comment too. You know how sometimes you can have an idea that you just have to share with someone else (even if they didn't ask for it)? This is a similar case, where I thought that it could work as a build that can cover any role in a pinch. To me there's an 8th role that of the all rounder/pinch filler/enabler, who can jump to fill in/assist in any off the other roles or make the specialist in 1 of the other roles even better at what they do. (Say if the specialist that normally does the job, having extra redunduncy is useful.) What do you think?, could an artificer/fae wanderer ranger be build to be a good all rounder/pinch filler/enabler? What might you do differently?

[@kellenbigman]

@@jugglejunk If you're asking what I think: I don't care. You seem really interested in it though so good for you chief. I hope you find a group as excited about your really niche interest as you are.

[@greenhawk3796]

Artificers be like: I'm everything, what do we need?

[@HotRossBuns]

We love you Dungeon Dudes!

[@dylanstoudt6499]

I can't believe you've committed suicide! Why. Why. Why have you committed suicide?

[@DevAndVic2022]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! It hurts!

[@HotRossBuns]

@@DevAndVic2022 Isn't that cheating the public?

[@DevAndVic2022]

@@HotRossBuns yes. Yes it is.

[@tommymartineau6131]

You guys are seriously helping my campaign so much. Great work!

[@captainkaveman4470]

"So what does a redemption paladin do?" Sit down while I heal the bartender and convince the tavern to ignore the bandit I just cleaved then smited to hell

[@MrZAP17]

Don't forget that I'm going to do this while standing in front of all the enemy swords for everyone and using my reaction to negate that fireball to the wizard's face.

[@robertbartley2409]

@@MrZAP17 but what is the wizard going to use their reaction for

[@JacopoSkydweller]

@@robertbartley2409 Drinking, most likely. Gotta put that virgin insecurity somewhere since the Chad Paladin just chadded so hard.

[@O4C209]

My 1st level Human Monk looking over at my group of a Tiefling Sorcerer with only fire spells, and a Gnome Ranger that only uses a crossbow. Really hope I survive to level 3.

[@alfonsocruz6100]

As someone playing a Human Monk (lvl 6 by now) let me tell you... Monks are very versitile, everybody thinks monks are like boring to play but the RP potencial is GOD like, also at level 3 you are gonna be a life saviour (more than 30 ft speed is super useful too), at 5th level you can flip social and battle encounters with Stunning Strike ☆ Good luck

[@jondough9545]

I just recently got into D&D. It was a jump off the deep end, all new players (including me) and I volunteered to be DM. Your videos have been great in getting me ready and putting me in the right mindset to play/lead the game. THANK YOU!

[@rokkkrinn2793]

These guys are great, but Matt Colville is The Dungeon Master on KZbin. He can really help. Got aw whole series called Running the Game based solely on being a DM.

[@jondough9545]

@@rokkkrinn2793 thanks for the heads up! Found Matt Colville's channel/videos. I'll definitely add that channel to my resources for tips&tricks. Thanks again!!

[@Darksnowman13]

"Okay, I think I got this. Pretty One, Strong stupid one, one with weird powers." "I can spawn mini me's!" "Terrrrrific"

[@cameronhumphreys2309]

“I prefer handsome” “I’m not stupid” “Gaaueinsgekhnskw” “Never mind, you’re all stupid”

[@mattiaroccaro3544]

My four member party: - twilight cleric; - oath of vengeance paladin; - bear totem barbarian; - enchantment wizard. It's a really solid party and pretty much covers all the roles you mentioned.

[@diversezebra6754]

Divine Soul Sorcerer College of Eloquence Bard Chronothurgy Wizard Echo Knight Fighter This is the party of 'Why did I agree to DM'.

[@Teaandephemery]

@@diversezebra6754 Interesting. It's a party of four S-tier subclasses for sure, but could be overwhelmed by numbers.

[@diversezebra6754]

@@Teaandephemery Possibly, though a few well picked spells and the casters can easily support a Hasted party and Spirit Guardians which allows the Fighter to shine and finish off enemies between himself and the Echo while the Time Wizard can pepper supporting fire with cantrips, an occasional reroll against incoming critics, and if needed toss a big boy spell. I ran this team against a massive dungeon crawl to test the ability and it was regrettably easy to conquer it.

[@crimfan]

My current 4 person party: Hexblade Warlock/Fighter (me) Swords Bard College of Scribes Wizard Abjurer Wizard/Knowledge Cleric

[@AlleyFang]

your point about "who's the beatdown" reminded me of a low level game where me (a paladin trained in athletics using sword and board for max defense) and my fellow fronliner (a dual wielding, offense focused figther) were getting wrecked by a gargoyle tanking our OA to do hit and fly and negating my friends multiattacking strategy . Cue me dropping my warhammer and using a readied action to grapple it with my free hand. I was doing 0 damage from this point on, but the figther got to leverage his build to do his 2 attacks round uninterrupted and finish it off.

[@jettolo]

This video was very inspiring, a very clean idea sping in my mind: Classes define Combat Roles, while Background define Off-Combat Roles. Following a simple scheme like this can help players differentiate their character and the DM in making adventures to keep engaged all the players in the varies gameplay modes

[@consiglieridopchie]

Yes! i'm starting as a player in my first campaign next week and i've been thinking about my role in the party all week!

[@lord6617]

Which role is the "Betray the party to attempt to seduce Strahd" role?

[@taliavaryn4393]

A new encounter played by the DM.

[@eliasvernieri]

the one that do not play next game :P

[@erikhanson9391]

The Munchkin

[@evilsquirrel0573]

Not funny person who relies on memes too heavily as opposed to original role playing, who screws over their own party just to make an overused joke

[@gamergunn7139]

That would probably be a different take on the Negotiator. Don't advise playing that though

[@nickjanzen8002]

you guys rock! DnD has kept me and my friends in touch during the pandemic, and your videos have taught us newbies SO much, and in such a fun way. Thanks for the awesome content!

[@andrewpeli9019]

Every character, if played correctly, is a utility.

[@BioMatic2]

*when your party only has three people* well boys, we better learn to muilti-task

[@rcschmidt668]

And Drakkenheim shows us all how 3 can get it done! 🤓

[@TheJurzerker]

A whole party of Warlocks. A Hexblade, a Fiend, a Celestial, and an Archfey. They have all the basic covered, and they all have devilsight... gets pretty crazy when they cast darkness on the Hexblade's sword

[@alexwarlock5480]

gets tome for utility, get chains for infiltration, gets talisman for support, gets bladepact for frontline/beatdown. invocations for investigation and naturally high charisma for negotiator....

[@tal4726]

"You won't see a lot of support in Druids" *Laughs in Dreams Druid*

[@HistorysRaven]

Seriously. My group just got into a 5v5 coliseum fight, festival week at the current city, and I’m doing the most damage while also healing/buffing/moving party members out of danger.

[@noonoe2000]

bro, same. i wish people gave this subclass more credit bcs it rocks.

[@GrumpyGrobbyGamer]

Absolutely awesome conversation and I'm really glad that you put this out there. So many ideas and themes that can benefit not only the party thinking about how they can work together to defeat the challenges ahead of them, as well as the DM thinking about not only how the party can defeat their challenges as they create them but also how they can provide a "spotlight" moment for all of the players as the campaign moves ahead. Thank you so much Dudes.

[@JnJake]

One of my favorite combos in 5e is when a character that has great weapon master or sharpshooter has an attack roll buff like bardic inspiration or bless. Yes, they will succeed on dealing damage more often but they also take the chance more often because they know they have the support behind them. That’s really hard to quantify but that effect is very present and makes a BIG difference at the table.

[@derekb6772]

I’m literally starting a game tomorrow, what a good time to see this

[@tomboy_kisser]

4:48 "Video games have a VERY strict tank-healer-DPS dynamic" 99.9% of the games I've played for the past 30 years:

[@jessy5241]

I laughed a bit over the “barging in the front door” because my party does similar thing, except we always manage to find the BACK door...and the secret rooms...and the closed off shrine that let us bottleneck goblins and the bugbear in Cragmaw. It’s been an interesting Lost Mines campaign with this party lol

[@brettcardon4552]

Our party has a paladin, a barbarian, a druid, a rogue, a ranger, and an artificer. The barbarian took one level of bard and can now cast healing word. Because of this 4 out of six of us can heal members of the party. As a new player I was worried we might be in trouble without a cleric, but so far we've actually meshed pretty well together.

[@rodrigofernandezrivera1028]

*Gets excited in Moon Druid

[@devin5201]

You guys mention the investigator and I think about the campaign I'm playing in where no one has an Intelligence higher than 9.

[@___i3ambi126]

Sounds like the party in journy to the west.

[@solar4planeta923]

That's one way to roll. My Int.20 wizard is pretty sure the best stuff is kept behind secret doors, though.

[@randysage8818]

This happens sometimes in the Adventurers League and it's painful for one session. I could not handle a campaign like that 😬

[@kiwiviking175]

You guys are brilliant; our ‘go to’ channel for all things D&D. The way you break it down to make it simple for us to have fun and be amazing; it is quite superb. Keep it up!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@kiwiviking175]

(And greetings from Europe, you are huge here as well! 😉)

[@lordraven1991]

I love that you mentioned a "map maker" role for a character, as this is a character trait I have planned for my bone white tiefling. He will draw the dungeon lay-out on himself and then transfer the map to parchment when he gets time, to then sell at the next town for extra coin. He would also be a part of the negotiator role with a proficient intimidation skill backed with his 6'6" barbarian frame. Multi-roling is something that I would love to do in a campaign, as in being able to shift from role to role when the time would be right.

[@dannya.2616]

Host, Music Guy, Guy-who-pays-for-food, Guy with Booze, Weed Guy, 2nd Uninvited Weed Guy...

[@BubblingBrooke]

One of my dms doesnt just ask for charisma checks for negotiating, it all depends on how we approach the conversation. He wants us to lie to him if we are gonna lie, etc. One of the best tense conversations I've ever had didnt have a single persuasion roll made when it came to the most important parts of the convo. It also means my charisma dumped monk can just be the face and help us get through a situation XD

[@diversezebra6754]

I personally disagree with this approach. This is a game. From my perspective games should have rules, and the rules of this game is that the dice determine the outcome. I wouldn't ask someone to jump a 20 foot gap, so why is it fair to require the player to depend only on their ability to speak convincingly? They used to do this kind of thing 15+ years ago and it completely negated having a Charisma stat, making anyone that invested into the stat feel less useful. I LOVE having my players engage in character, and reward their roll with benefits for good role-play, but it eventually should come down to the dice. You guys play what you all find fun, this is just another perspective.

[@BubblingBrooke]

@@diversezebra6754 I like what my dm does because it allows for us to be able to participate without having to invest in charisma, and it saves us from a potentially bad roll when it doesnt make sense (why would a bard with a +13 fail a persuasion roll on a nat 1 when what they ask for is very reasonable?) He has us make rolls when they are needed. If we push our luck with a request, he calls for a persuasion roll. My example in my original comment, if it was another dm, would've had us make probably 6 rolls when none realistically were needed aside from the 1 request that was pushing our luck. This is also a roleplaying game, and pushing us to be in character in this manner helps make the game more memorable. In a different game I play a charisma dumped monk and she had to (I volunteered) explain why this thing we were sent to scout out was suddenly not there anymore.(a bunch of shit happened and it blew up and we forgot to send word back because of other shenanigans. Oops) This was that same dm and I didnt have to make a roll and the moment was great because asking for a roll would've broken immersion and if I rolled badly it wouldnt really reflect how i actually explained things. It helps make to game feel more realistic. Otherwise the highest charisma person would be the only face because they have the best chances. There's a time and place for the 'face' and having a high charisma. It is a game, but dnd is a roleplaying game at the end of the day. His approach doesn't make charisma useless, it just incentivizes group participation.

[@cristiananao294]

It's the case of a dumb-ish player trying to manage a 20-Int pc. You can go for a bit of roleplay, but at the end of the day it's got to be dice. DnD, as good a game as it can be, is not a diceless. If you're after genuine roleplay, go for Amber or On Stage (a DnD and diceless games lover writing). Enjoy! 🤗

[@BubblingBrooke]

@@cristiananao294 oh I still like rolling dice, I just dont think it's necessary all the time

[@divi1139]

I play a polearm wielding Bear Totem Barbarian/ Battle Master Fighter Bugbear who has a specialized bag on his back that holds my Gnome sister who's a Shepherd Druid. Yea... constantly gaining various hit-points by her Unicorn and Bear spirit abilities makes my Bugbear even more indestructible, pair that with an army of wolves following us around everywhere, we are a mobile destruction force. Not to mention she can cover with various ranged spells, while I defender her from melee attacks like brick wall. True sibling bonding :)

[@mcrussellmania]

Monty and Kelly: thanks for making this video! Because of the association with corresponding video game roles like tank and dps, I think a lot of this discussion gets dismissed as metagamey and antithetical to role-playing. However, the main goal of any D&D, or any game, is to have fun, and players are not going to have a good time if they are constantly forced to fulfill roles they did not pick for themselves. I'm DMing a group right now for a detective-themed adventure in Waterdeep, and in my Session Zero I brought up specific roles for the PC's in their detective agency, and while they were creating their characters we made sure that everything was covered and everyone was happy with their particular party roles. Some compromises were made, but overall it really worked. By the way, at the end of the video Monty and Kelly reference their discussions about creating different combinations of 4 character parties to fill all of the roles, and I would have loved to have heard some of those examples. Maybe another video on unique party combinations?

[@DungeonDudes]

We hope to do another video about it, just wanted to see what our audience thought first :)

[@mcrussellmania]

@@DungeonDudes Well, there are two Dungeon Dudes fans in my household (myself and my son) and we would love to see it!

[@cruxruber7054]

I’ve literally been looking for a video like this one for the past week. Then they publish it immediately after.

[@grendl74]

I've been playing since 1st Edition, and this was a top tier informational video! Well done, gentlemen!

[@cariri12]

How fking old are you?

[@grendl74]

@@cariri12 47

[@johnleerudolph7909]

Really love this breakdown! I love playing characters who can fill all kinds of party roles. My current mastermind rogue acts as infiltrator, negotiator and investigator for the party with a little bit of support and beat down thrown in for fun.

[@hardlinewinter8040]

My character is a rune knight with Great weapon master and hex. It’s very fun to absolutely shred anything he touches, along with the added bonus of being able to redirect crits, Fire damage, and physical resistance

[@bethannevandagriff7054]

I'm DMing for family, all with very little experience with d&d. My quiet, introverted sister who loves music chose to play a bard, while my extroverted husband went with a naive, social bumbler of a cleric. The number of times already where the cleric has put his foot in his mouth before the bard has figured out what to say is beginning to annoy the rest of the party.

[@JuniperHedge]

LOL Sounds like the bard needs to have a heart to heart with the paladin

[@KainusGulch]

This is adorable and awesome.

[@michaelramon2411]

When I'm helping new players create a character, I provide them with the following five combat roles, to see what they want to do: FRONTLINER: Almost always a melee combatant, Frontliners can usually do decent damage, but their core feature is their ability to tank hits, whether via AC or HP or more unusual defenses. The Frontliner is really the only mandatory role (even if it's handled by a summoned monster or cohort or something) because all those enemy attacks have to go SOMEWHERE. STRIKER: Strikers do a lot of damage, but are relatively fragile compared to Frontliners. They usually needs support (buffs, flanking, someone else to take the hits) to reach their full potential, but when they do, they tend to melt foes. SHOOTER: Shooters do damage at range, either with a bow, a firearm, thrown weapons or spells. Since they don't worry as much about positioning as a melee combatant, they can focus on scoring kills, and they can afford to be a little more fragile (though they aren't necessarily, especially if they are a martial class). They aren't usually able to contribute much beyond reducing foe HP, however. Blaster mages and Eldritch Blast fit in here. SUPPORT CASTER: Support Casters use magic or similar abilities (bardic inspiration, sharing teamwork feats) to heal and buff allies, increasing the team's overall firepower and survivability. OFFENSE CASTER: Offense Casters are not necessarily concerned with doing damage via their spells or similar abilities (that would be a Shooter), but rather on inconveniencing and weakening the enemy as much as possible. Debuffs, curses and status effects fall here, as well as battlefield control abilities like Black Tentacles and any Wall spell that limit the enemy's ability to move where they want to.

[@andreaspersson5639]

One thing that needs to be emphasized with the Front Line (or the "Big Stupid Fighter, as I think of them, no matter size, intelligence, or class): they need to be *sticky*. They must have some answer to the monsters going "I'll just ignore you and go hit the ones you're trying to protect". And one Opportunity Attack is not enough for that. Nor can you rely on there always being a choke point (or you having control of that choke point). And I say that as someone who's *fond* of being the BSF, even if I tend towards Support, just because I also want to always be able to contribute.

[@thomasbdugan]

I would love a follow-up video with examples of party competition! That sounds amazing

[@waynekerr4220]

I love my battlefield controlling magical Swiss Army knife. I do next to no damage and I enjoy every minute of it. I’ll take spoiling the DM’s plans and buffing my friends over rolling big damage dice all day long.

[@andrewmenees473]

Monty's hair looks awesome in this video. Also I'm loving the shaggy beards.

[@justinwilliams2602]

Utility: fighting some tree guys, my rogue smashed her hooded lantern across one of them, dealing next to no damage. But the Druid's Produce Flame right after that turned the tide against this enemy as the oil in the lantern gave it certain damage per turn once it was on fire and the druid was free to consider other spells to better help the rest of the party.

[@Bleickard]

I remember my first 5e group. My bard was the tank and healer, since the other players played warlock, sorcerer, wizard and rogue...

[@randysage8818]

I started my first campaign offering to choose class last and the others choose wizard, warlock, rogue, and sorcerer. I opted initially for paladin over bard, but with a grinner/musician background and I already multiclassed into bard 😁

[@macromondo8026]

Totally wanna play a "Utility" Rogue with abit of "The Beat Down" character, my idea is: 1) Go Mastermind. 2) Get Expertise in Thieves Tools & Sleight of Hand (Mainly to disarm traps & open locks.) 4) Get the Alert Feat so i go first in combat most of the time. 5) Sneak Attack from a safe distance anything the other melee players are locked with and then give Advantage on attack roles with my Help (Now a Bonus Action) so if i don't kill the enemy then no biggie, i "soften them up" for my buddy who's gonna finish them off next with their next attack that now has advantage. Alternatively i could go with a Thief that took the Healer feat so i can "be the field medic" and patch everyone up with a Bonus Action when the main healer is down, but it feels abit more situational.

[@Erier]

A party may have it roles defined and prepared, but on paper all plans can be functional, until the shit hits the fan, and you hace to improvise, then its mostly plausible everyone has to improvise and will commit mistakes, even the most veteran would fail into this issue. The thing is to play well, but mostly to have fun.

[@aidanbrannon977]

Personally my favorite “infiltrator” class is a shadow monk. Being able to cast pass without a trace, go invisible while in darkness and to teleport in darkness plus all the other monk features is a great exploration class

[@benhemsworth8555]

Incredibly timed guys - just been watching OSP Trope Talk videos on this kind of thing!

[@deafbardjenkins1001]

How do you know ... how do you know exactly what video I’m looking for before I start looking for it ?

[@cruxruber7054]

For real, for real, I have been looking for a video like this for the past week. The Dungeon Dudes know what’s up!

[@ariagrumpy8254]

Our team is consisted of a ranger, a barbarian, a rogue, and me, the Wizard. We're playing CoS. I'm forced to be the support, the healer, and I'm taking two levels in Artificer just to be able to make my team's weapons magical, and get cure wounds. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

[@philwalsworth4085]

I'm a paladin/bard who is finishing up curse of strahd, and oooh buddy, you are in for it.

[@Zarkonem]

Why the heck isn't your bard doing it? Everything in the bard's entire kit screams mostly utility and support. Your wizard should be damage and crowd control. I think you need to talk to the the other players in your party and DM regarding what you and the other players want to do as members of the party and that you feel like your being pressured to do something you don't want to.

[@Zarkonem]

@@gamecavalier3230 Oh whoops, that changes things, yeah not sure what should happen in that case, the party didn't pick any support roles at all. Either way i think a conversation should still happen regarding what roles people are covering if the wizard player doesnt want to be a healer.

[@Zarkonem]

@@gamecavalier3230 Possibly, but that's assuming that the ranger doesn't want to use their limited spell slots on things like hunters mark and such. Also i've heard that the CoS module can be kinda brutal. Haven't played it yet though.

[@ariagrumpy8254]

@@Zarkonem barb, as in, Barbarian. Should've been more specific

[@professionalsleeper6281]

Concept: the divine gang (tm) with their attributes ranked in how well they do it. Zealot barbarian: Front line, beatdown Redemption paladin: Front line, support, beatdown Peace cleric: support, utility, investigation, exploration Divine soul sorcerer: HOLY FUCK THE BEATDOWN, support, negotiator. Celestial warlock: beatdown, support, negotiator, infiltrator

[@nothingtoreport1918]

This video is really funny to watch in conjunction with the Architect of Games video I just saw. There’s definitely overlap between the holy trinity (DPS, Tank, Support) in DND but there are noticeable differences that keep things interesting. Nice video!

[@iododendron3416]

'we don't have a cleric, what are we gonna do?' Pray for help? Oh, wait....

[@tyree9055]

I've seen bards (barely) fulfill the role, but I've also seen battle clerics that didn't heal anyone too... ☝😅

[@dylandugan76]

Bards, Druids, and Paladins all make empirically better "healers" than Clerics in 5e. Cleric is probably the most versatile class after the Wizard, in that they can functionally fit the largest variety of roles effectively, especially at low and mid levels, and particularly with buffing and protecting allies, or dealing consistent and reliable damage.

[@tyree9055]

@@dylandugan76 I can't speak to 5e, but my dedicated healing cleric from Dungeons & Dragons Online (3.5e ruleset) was unbeatable by anyone. That cleric could not only regeneratively heal in a small aura, they could power heal party members using individual spells and didn't need to use mass heals at all (it actually caused their spell points to drain quicker using mass heals). We did dungeons that were CR: 12 at level 10 or CR: 22 at level 20 for instance.

[@nikolaylidetsky4485]

Yeah, boiii, new episode!!

[@MajorHickE]

While I've yet to play a game with players who discuss things like party comp in advance, I have made sure to ask which role the party is in need of at the times where I was asked to join a game already in progress. If nothing else, it seems like a show of respect for the rest of the players, and has helped to ingratiate me to a new table (or Discord server, as the last year has been), when I haven't met all the players yet.

[@hamishcurrie220]

Excellent episode and a subject that has been neglected on many youtube channels.

[@Subcomandante73]

Did they just describe the 'A Team' :)

[@dylandugan76]

I mean, they're called "The A-Team" for a reason...

[@GuardianTactician]

Recently had a game where my UA dragonborn monk was one of the primary Beat Down role in the group. The rogue and wizard also contributed, though their damage was reliant on other party members or spell slots. Best moment was one person in the party saying: "Well, the monk killed everything else already, so we should be safe to take a rest."

[@ProletarianPower]

We are starting a new camping tomorrow and only one of us, the cleric, is a spell caster. We have two fighters, a barbarian, and I am a pugilist. I'm excited to see how this goes.

[@clodguida5056]

17:54 "Oh yes, is that so Wilhelm? Why don't you bring River with you? Oh you can't because she's too scared to go around doing risky things. Yes Bruce, I don't need training in Arcana, you are Arcana"

[@michaelbennyhoff9099]

You guys are awesome I would love some more subclass videos on all the classes in Tasha's

[@laschicvalisca2481]

"A character who plays a caster, but does not have the Arcana skill." Wow... I felt that jab at Wrath there.

[@EsShinkai02]

Swashbuckler Is my favorite Rogue subclass for exactly this reason. I can fight on the frontlines without too much worry thanks to my dex based higher AC, uncanny dodge, evasion, and cunning actions (bolstered by fancy footwork) keeping me out of direct harm, all while punishing foes that target my allies through my Panache. The additional ASI also frees me up to take another feat like Tough. With Rakish Audacity I can reliably deal heavy chunks of damage even when left alone. Investigation and infiltration come naturally to rogues and with the added emphasis that the subclass places on my charisma score, I'm even in a good situation to play the face. And of course, the added skill and tool proficiencies make utility a viable avenue too. Only thing I really struggle with as a Swashbuckler is the Support role, which with feats like Inspiring Leader or Magic initiate, can be dipped into as well. It's really a complete package and if I'm ever at a loss for what I should play, Swashbuckler has become my go-to.

[@maxx8362]

I tend toward the utility and investigator roles and switch between frontliner and explorer depending on character. Also, the reason your investigator role, as you've defined it, works so well split between different characters is because it is actually two roles: the lookout and the brain. The two roles don't have very much overlap in skills or stats and are therefore tricky to put into one character, but they synergize exceptionally well.

[@maybevoldemort8995]

I think the several different roles is the thing I struggle with. I want to help my team, do the cool things I can do etc, but I don’t want to dominate the table either. I often pick classes/characters who have versatility and often find that I end up being the best in a lot of scenarios doing stuff. I don’t do stuff all the time because I don’t want to dominate the play, but people ask me to do stuff once they know I am good at it... I now just DM so I don’t have to worry about this, but I’d really like to play at some point- this dynamic just puts me off.

[@kingdomrains]

The pretty one, The weird one with the freaky power And the big tough stupid one

[@jacobreichert6239]

I’m laughing at how my party fits this. Me: divine souls sorcerer My sister: Ancestoral Barbarian My Sister in law; Shadow Monk.

[@GamerGrovyle]

Team Four Star. Nice

[@SundayKnightDM]

One of my adventure parties started as 3 rangers a rogue and a druid, each ranger quickly took on different 'roles' within the party, one prefers ranged attacks with their bow, one prefers tanking forward and using melee (oh and them being a dragonborn and being behind party members has ended badly in the past)

[@lexzbuddy]

Negotiation : keep the adversary awake for 3 days or more and then question them at disadvantage on saving throws until you get the info :) Your party gets 3 days long rest and can use it as a tool between game days. Pretty nasty but you don't kill or hurt the subject so pretty powerful and works at level one onwards. I'm sure most DMs would appreciate the creative approach.