We want your Input! Our Criteria for Multiclass Tier Rankings in D&D 5e

MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarte... FORM LINK HERE: forms.gle/RDBJ...
We ask for your opinions and feedback as we get ready to launch a new series of videos ranking every multiclass combination in D&D.
TIME STAMPS
0:00 - Intro
0:39 - How we are ranking Multiclassing
1:56 - S Tier
3:36 - A Tier
5:01 - B tier
6:27 - C Tier
8:19 - D Tier
____________________________
Watch us play live Tuesdays 6-9 PM EDT on Twitch:
/ dungeon_dudes
Join our Patreon community:
/ dungeon_dudes
Get our custom t-shirts:
bit.ly/dungeond...

[@jamesknowles9236]

I think the strength of most multiclass combos is much more dependent on which sub-classes you combine than on which base classes you combine.

[@studentofsmith]

Exactly. You don't dip into warlock as a bard, you dip into hexblade as a swords or valor bard.

[@eshansingh1]

@@studentofsmith You dip into Hexblade primarily for medium armor, shields, and the Shield spell, which means it's really good for any Bard, not just gish Bards. Subclass themes don't have to match thematically to be a good mechanical multiclass option. In fact, I would say the Valor Bard/Hexblade multiclass is actually kind of bad because it introduces redundancy with medium armor given by both sucblasses. Valor Bard is not a gish no matter how much the book pretends it is, it's about giving you medium armor and shield proficiency, so you're much better off going Sorcerer for the Shield spell, or Undead Warlock if you really want to dip Warlock (or you can do both Sorc and Warlock if you're starting at higher levels). Plus, the Undead Warlock dip is really really good as well regardless of Bard subclass: at-will frighten effect with Repelling Blast is very strong for control.

[@bobswag710]

@@eshansingh1 you absolutely do not dip into hexblade for some proficiencies and spells LMAO it’s so you can use charisma as a primary stat for martial weapons and reduce how MAD a character is… that’s it

[@Siennarchist]

​@@bobswag710 thats just wrong. Hexblade is an optimal multiclass for most bards

[@dyslxeic]

@@studentofsmith I dip warlock as an eloquence bard to get the invocation to cast disguise self at will while also getting EB and hex. Gives me roleplay benefits and some damage output.

[@RLKmedic0315]

If you are rating multiclass options there is one thing you absolutely must do : get in touch with Colby from D4. You are already friends with him so it should be easy. His input will be invaluable to your list, few channels dig deeper into multi-classing than Colby's, and his spreadsheets should be a great boon to your ranking criteria.

[@tehphoebus]

Would love to see multiple crossover videos for this.

[@boerhcauldur1873]

I'm still very pleased that these guys, Colby from d4, and treantmonk collaborated. They are my favorite in the community!

[@resistancex15x]

I would also love to see this!

[@RLKmedic0315]

@@kinjunranger140 So do I, but Colby can provide more information for them. More information is almost always better than less.

[@davec8385]

I was going to recommend getting in touch with D4 as well! Incredible channel that really has such a creative take on character exploration while also really highlighting strengths that are often overlooked

[@pyrosalsa]

Great video, dudes! I would definitely recommend keeping in mind the longevity of the average *realistic* campaign, especially as it relates to those B- and C-tier multiclasses. With those tiers, as you said, it makes a big difference when you take your second-class levels, so we want the build to stay relevant rather than waiting for a level that may never come.

[@Phhase]

I think "time and resources required for the combo to come online" and "average power in the interim of that event" should factor in.

[@Setzer]

That was part of the criteria they gave.

[@HorizonOfHope]

Yay! A whole series to prove that Four elements monk / PHB Beast Master ranger is the S-Tier combo.

[@_fedmar_]

I'm gonna need you to elaborate, dear. How does it work?

[@darkzayko8487]

Please, elaborate

[@theinsanegamer1024]

@@_fedmar_ Same stats are used, Wisdom and Dex, 4 element monk lets you use magic at a range while the beast companion distracts from up close, and if the enemy manages to approach you can ditch your bow and the disadvantage you would otherwise get to hit them up close with your fists or a touch range magic attack. Though the main draw is Ranger+monk in general rather than those 2 subclasses specifically.

[@TheKilogram1000]

Please don't elaborate, and make everyone theory craft until they make the strongest 4-Elements Monk/PHB Beast Master Ranger they can.

[@HorizonOfHope]

@@theinsanegamer1024 … I have no idea if you are serious, but putting it out there: I am not. This is my Z-tier combo. I would rather play a commoner.

[@gablott]

Kelly gets an S-tier for their multi-classing of jackets!

[@varthalgamekiin4931]

*in the distance* HE'S SO GOD DAMN COOL!!!!

[@christopherhall6408]

I was gonna say! Which class gives you the drip!??

[@norokodven4768]

@@christopherhall6408 bard

[@PandaKnightsFightingDragons]

@@christopherhall6408 Barbarian or Monk. Can focus all your effort on the drip with 0 regard for protection

[@honkeykong4049]

Their? His*

[@maybevoldemort8995]

I think what is crucial is to divide “generic” subclasses of the class and a few specific subclasses. Then if you give a ranking you could give warlock (generic) and warlock (hexblade), bard (generic) and bard (swords). I think this would enable you to parse out the details more and identify clearly the value of multiclassing two classes versus multiclassing due to a specific subclass being a really strong multiclass

[@___i3ambi126]

Also moon druid. The subclass the requires precisely zero stats to be above 13 to be viable.

[@_bats_]

Yeah. Specific sort of nonstandard subclasses work so well with multiclassing but others, not so much.

[@kodiakjak1]

Also curious how the subclasses are going to weigh in, certain ones like the gloom stalker and hex blade are practically built for multi-classing.

[@klaykid117]

Wow I have a feeling this is going to be a massive endeavor there's just so many combinations. I eagerly look forward to it

[@captainpolar2343]

it's only 156 combos unless including subclasses which brings out 11434 (barring 3 kinda useless subclasses that no one uses)

[@klaykid117]

@@captainpolar2343 Yeah I was thinking of the subclasses

[@fateric007]

I forsee Fighter, Sorcerer and Warlock getting a lot of S tier.

[@TylerCummings6]

No cleric?

[@TommyTheCat83]

That's hilarious because my fighter/warlock/sorcerer multiclass just died... I give it an A though.

[@BlackHawkTheSailor]

I think fighter will pair well with the most other classes as a base class, I think cleric will have the most good pairings as a 1-3 lvl dip.

[@AlternetRedSkys]

I can see that they give you a lot of options but a little down I see Cleric, Rogue and maybe Bard. Best multiclasses give you more options that are useful in ways that the core class can benifit from or can be utilized more broadly.

[@mlmf2012]

Action surge+double maxed call lightning on a fighter dipped tempest cleric for a flat 60 damage at level 7 (70+ damage if you casted spiritual weapon beforehand for an extra bonus action attack) is insane and a fun boss finisher combo 😂

[@lucasm.3864]

Even though it’s slightly MAD, a single level dip into (Peace Domain) Cleric helped my Wizard a ton. Getting access to medium armor, shields, and healing (especially at range on a Bonus Action) was a godsend.

[@luniuni8236]

I took 1 fighter into wizard into tempest cleric, and dear god is it fun to play but holy shit does it hurt my brain

[@Loron20]

One of my favorite Multi-classes I have discovered lately is a Circle of the Moon Druid taking levels in Monk. Either 1 level just for the unarmored defense, 2 levels for Ki points and faster movement, or go all the way to level 5 for multi-attack. Getting those benefits in animal form are hilarious "Why yes, my Giant Elk form does have an AC of 17 and can hip check after its normal attack" (hip check would be an "unarmed attack" for martial arts bonus action attack)

[@whiteraven562]

In a similar vein, Moon Druid + Bear totem barbarian also has some silly results. Picking one of the high-HP animals and then raging makes you have ludicrous HP

[@SmokeSolo1975]

I have this dilemma. Wildshape ac is terrible, but I really think the level 20 capstone druid ability is so good that you would regret not ever having a chance to get to. It all depends if the character is a on indefinite campaign or will definitely end at a set level

[@whiteraven562]

@@SmokeSolo1975 yeah, but how many campaigns actually make it to LV 20?

[@agilemind6241]

@@whiteraven562 Moon+Bear Barbarian really isn't very good. Sure you have lots of HP but that is all you have going for you. Your damage sucks, your casting sucks, your MAD as hell... Druid-Monk is much better but still only C tier IMO, because your WS AC never gets that high (e.g. Allosaurus with a +4 Wis druid-monk has AC 15 instead of AC 13, Bristled Moorbounder has no change in AC, Brownbear has AC 14 instead of 11), and you have a sever trade off between getting more ki points from Monk or upgrading you WS forms from Druid. A 1 level monk dip is ok, but more than that and you really aren't getting enough to be worth the sacrifice. The best MC if you want to maximize WS for Moon Druid is 2 levels of Paladin, but even then don't bother until you're at least level 6 druid.

[@whiteraven562]

@@agilemind6241 Yeah, Moon Druid + Barbarian is more of a "the flavor of this is fun" combo than a "mechanically this is amazing" combo. because turning into a Moose (Giant Elk stats) and then raging is hilarious

[@ContemporaryMatt]

This sounds like it could be a really in-depth series. I can't wait!!!

[@gerbenwierda9683]

Note that some spell lists are more forgiveable towards a low spellcasting ability. Bards depend on their DC, while Clerics can often function pretty well with a lower Wis.

[@mattfitzgerald7836]

You may wish to reconsider the 'the class will be both the first class taken and the one in which we take the majority of levels' criterion for certain classes. Gaining proficiency in Constitution saving throws by taking first level in Fighter followed by a second level in Fighter at some point for action surge is really potent for many builds. And for Wizards, first level in Artificer for Constitution saving throw proficiency doesn't even cost you spell slot progression (although you are sacrificing Wisdom saving throws and slowing the level at which you can learn the actual spells).

[@ChknPotPythagoras]

This is my first Dungeon Dudes survey! So happy to finally contribute to you guys! love the channel!

[@AlternetRedSkys]

Same should be fun.

[@strattonmeyer2870]

As someone who's currently playing a Soulknife Rogue/Bard multiclass and has really been having a hard time making a decision on how to balance the levels, I really appreciate that you're doing this series! I love your content, and can't wait to see your thoughts.

[@Ptollemios]

Omg I was just thinking "I want to see a Dungeon Dudes Multiclass tier list video" like literally 3 hours ago. Looking forward to them.

[@gopher8288]

I know you probably got plenty of this content in the pipeline, but I'd love guests to come on and talk about some of their favorite multi-classes. Maybe Tulok Barbrarian, XP to lvl 3, runesmith and others. Always good to band together against such perilous odds :)

[@chrishousenick6105]

I think a criteria for this that might put them in the B or C tier that you did not mention was two classes that load a whole bunch of class abilities into one 'box' on the character sheet. For example, I had an idea for a Rogue/Bard multi-class, and the challenge became the number of things that the character could do on their Bonus action.

[@_bats_]

Yeah, bonus action economy becomes problematic with lots of multiclass builds. The more obvious one is when you get classes that synergize well, but then get certain dead levels because features don't stack (like extra attack).

[@leeway3739]

I'm a big fan of Ranked Choice Voting for something like this! It will really help to see when two options are actually very close.

[@seekingfurtherlight34]

Ranked choice doesn't do that. Voting normally would do that

[@leeway3739]

@@seekingfurtherlight34 Ranked choice is better for something like this. If everyone only gets to vote once and 80% chose option A, and 15% chose option B (with the last 5% sprinkled about on options C/D/E/F) it is hard to tell how close options A and B are to each other. With ranked choice voting if the 80% pick A for #1 spot and B for #2 spot, while the 15% pick B for #1 and A for #2 (and the C/D/E/F options still get very little in the top tier spots) then it is much easier to see that option A and B are both very well liked (almost a tie), rather than option A being a clear winner.

[@explodingdice173]

I’m really excited for this series! I tend to shy away from multiclassing because I like the high level abilities too much, so it’ll be nice to get a more educated perspective!

[@jnhensley09]

I can see a lot of these multiclassing builds that are MAD be lower on the rankings scale, with a few exceptions here and there, but those would be very niche. I try to limit my multiclassing to 2 classes, or if I do more than that, they are a specialized character that takes advantage of very similar ability scores. It can take a bit of research and nuances, but some builds can be REALLY epic.

[@timothyburbage]

Most effective multiclass at my table I have seen was Cleric/Sorcerer dip where they nat 20 on a Level 4 Chromatic Orb and used their Storm cleric channel divinity to maximum damage

[@mikecarson7769]

great idea for a series of videos! for me, the most difficult part is to know when to jump from one class to another, especially if the campaign will be limited in its total level

[@jons1278]

I think a lot of tier lists tend to think about power ceilings, which is great. But *competent* versatility and reliability are also important.

[@terriblegamers2213]

I know my tortle druid of the stars/artificer alchemist character is not a good multiclass. But boy has it been fun to RP and has it's cool moments in combat.

[@tehphoebus]

I hope you get enough engagement to do a full series on this. Would love to see this for every class and subclass. I mean damn.

[@whiteraven562]

One multiclass that should go into D-tier is Monk/Sorcerer. The Ki point/sorcery point system means you never have enough of either to do what you want. Also they don't share a casting stat, so you need to invest in 2 mental stats *and* dex *and* probably con so you don't die the first time someone looks at you from your D6 hitdice

[@fendelphi]

Agreed. Similarly, if we dont consider specific subclasses, then Barbarian+caster is also fairly low on the list.

[@CamONEILL]

I wish you guys the best of luck with this ranking! a tough one but super interested to hear your thoughts

[@cconnorss]

Yay! You dudes always come out with a highly relevant video when I need it! I was just looking at starting a Bladesinger Wiz and wondering if there’s a good multiclass that can help fill out the weaknesses of that subclass. Very awesome my dudes.

[@bigmikebeebee]

A new 5e tier ranking series? Absolutely looking forward to this! Thanks Dudes!

[@fourtrees44]

I have played BECMI in ‘84 and every edition since, mainly as DM. Always learn things from your videos. Very thankful for them.

[@christophersieh4818]

I know the blood hunter class won't be considered, but blood hunter/battle smith is both an effective and highly flavorful class. I remember charging up my guns with my own blood.

[@MarkWomack11]

I like the conversation generated from the ranking series, and I’m here to watch whatever you make. I would like to see more stuff I can drop into my games. Maybe a whole series on encounters that showcases how you put them together? Some art and stat blocks. Lot of work to create, but people are hungry for stuff they can slot into their games. You guys are great.

[@silverjohn6037]

Just to make it even more complicated maybe factor in whether they are good at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20. As some multi-classes shine at low levels while others don't really come together until higher levels (which many games don't reach).

[@zero11010]

I like this. Personally, I don’t really care about anything after level 10. Games just don’t really get that far.

[@wizardgradstudent]

Ooof I could see this being an extremely long series because there is so much nuance. I also wonder how they’ll factor in subclass-specific multiclassing. For example, an arcane trickster/wizard is an S tier imo, but a swashbuckler/wizard would be a B tier for me. I guess by the tier list criteria rogue/wizard is B tier because it’s build dependent.

[@Smoldar]

One multiclass that I loved to put up against my players on a oneshot and would love to test as a player is a Loxodon Battle Smith Artificer (3) & War Magic Wizard (17). Str 8, Dex 10, Con 17(+2), Wis 14(+1), Int 15 Cha 14 starting off as Artificer till lvl 3. War Caster feat on lvl 7 and past that just ASI. You can give yourself a +1 shield and +1 weapon that uses your Int. Cha and Dex can be swaped if you prefer, but I like to just soak up all the damages purely based on HP. This boyo gets 70+ hp and 20+ AC by level 10 while being mainly a Wizard. You only ever need 2 stats, Con and Int. Keep your steel defender beside you and make sure that he uses his reaction to make the biggest hitter nearby to have disadvantage on hitting you. If on a higher stats table or if you can for sure raise the stats without the ASI, Fey touched on 11. Choose bless as the spell from Fey Touched and you have advantage on keeping concentration with a +7 minimum. Other good options for feats: Mobile, Sentinel, Mage Slayer and Tough The combo can also be made with Bladesinging, getting the Enhanced Arcane Focus instead of the +1 shield Infusion. Not as tanky, but can dish out way more pain.

[@1_Acre_Empire]

My current favorite multiclass build is my paladin bard Vigo Bloodfist Background: gladiator Paladin skills I took: insite, persuasion. He's a half orc so I get intimidation. Taking paladin to level 6 When i multiclass into bard in gonna take deception as the 1 skill to take. Taking insite and deception as my expertise skills. I'm going whispers bard to try to tie into the conquest paladin. Level 12 is a long way to wait to be fully online but when stealth is poop for paladins why not just become someone who's suppose to be there (level 6 whisper bard ability) getting a bonus to a skill I have expertise in (deception)... sure I won't have spells for my level 4 or 5 slot but those are for upcasting and smite slots. Level 6 paladin everything else bard

[@bukharagunboat8466]

I hope these videos will cover the roleplaying of multiclassing. Want to be a Wizard? Who trained you? A Cleric? How much time do you spend in church? A Warlock? How did you meet your patron? Some of this can be built into the character's background up front (e.g. the Acolyte background for a budding Cleric); if it's not I would be inclined to require a related Feat be taken at 4th Level before allowing the multiclass at 5th. We all know that some of the "best" multiclass options are Defensive Dips; adding a couple of levels of Twilight Cleric or Hexblade Warlock to a Sorcerer for example. Don't forget that if you are adding a dip that you will not use for its offensive capabilities then a high primary ability score may not be that important. One set of multiclass options that should work, but often don't, are the Domain Doubledowns. An Aasimar Divine Soul/Celestial Sorlock is an astounding healer. Mixing the psionic subclasses (Aberrant Mind, Great Old One, Psi Warrior, Soul Knife) just gets you a bunch of overlapping abilities. I'm coming to the view that it should be easy to rewrite 5E to get rid of Class completely, converting all abilities to Feats that are gained each time a character levels up. At the simplest level, how many fighter-types would take Action Surge at first level, delaying Heavy Armor to 2nd (when they can afford some)? Would Arcane casters want all the Schools right away, or is something else more valuable? Would almost everyone grab Wild Shape?

[@MD-zi9if]

Is there some way that you can capture the difference between different dips into the same class? For example, a one level dip into Hexblade Warlock vs. a three level dip into Genie?

[@nemolom]

I understand and respect that you want to emphasize performance in your rankings. Historically, what I´ve personally valued most is playing characters with large or unique toolboxes, that reward me being creative. In my experience, high player creativity often beats high character performance (given the GM knows what she´s doing). I think fun and style should be considered as well, so I suggest you give a little prize at the end - to the builds you feel are the most fun and stylish, regardless of their performance ranking.

[@hkfifty871]

There may also need to be sort of distinction between a class that makes for a good multi-classing opportunity vs one specific subclass that is really useful. The obvious example being Warlock, where picking up 1-3 levels in Hexblade can have AMAZING synergy with other Charisma based classes (and is generally gonna be S tier), whereas all the others don’t give you nearly as much bang for your buck. Clerics fall into a similar vein, where what you’re really picking up are the domain perks. And there’s so many, there’s probably at least ONE domain that could pull off a B tier (possibly high C tier) for any given multiclass. I’m not sure how that might work out in the rankings, because that can be some HEFTY swing in viability for multiclassing between the class overall vs a specific subclass. Maybe rank the class overall, with a quick mention for specific subclasses that really stand out above the rest? I just worry that’s gonna end up kinda repetitive, with a lot of classes bring B or C tier generally, except for some of their best subclasses that are A or S.

[@iskandarthegreat0487]

Super excited to dive into this with you guys 😁

[@1thumbs-upmountain138]

My opinion: you can multiclass out of armorer artificer into LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE and still be decent to amazing, since you can wear plate while not needing 15 str and you don't need such a high dex due to infusions. Also, this allows you to focus on int, con, and whatever stat your multiclass needs, and if you choose abjuration wizard, you have a spellcasting juggernaut with an arcane ward and only needing to invest in int and con and then dex with left over asi

[@colinwalker6804]

Personally my Criteria for Multi classing is based on the following: 1.) Is multi-classing this way better than continuing the same class level progression? 2.) How many levels do you need to get this off the ground? 3.) What opportunity cost is incurred. 4.) How do ability scores line up 5.) Long term value from the Multiclass. 6.) Does the second class overshadow your primary class? 7.) Do the classes mix flavor wise?

[@goontubeassos7076]

I did a character based on cantrips, and multi classed in all the spell caster classes. And only took cantrips. We played an adventure that I received a crown that allows you to double cast cantrips. I was in a large group, so I was just a carry but was fun to play it. I was a Kender too. So I was a wizard that was never taken seriously.

[@-POISON-]

Looking forward to the series of 2 class multiclassing and hoping for following 3 and 4 class combos.

[@jacobhamilton2473]

S- primary spellcaster + cleric for heavy armor prof. A- sorlock, soradin, wizard +2 fighter, palock B- Bardbarian, ranger/rogue

[@OneWingedAngelsBand]

After this series, a tier ranking of the different monster types would be great (aberrations, dragons, undead, etc). Something for the DMs too and not just the players. 🙂

[@jordie512]

Subclasses make this very difficult but in terms of some simple let very synergistic multi-classes are starting as either an artificer or sorcerer (1-3 levels) and multiclassing into wizard and warlock/bard respectively. This gives a proficiency in constitution saving throws and some good starting bonuses. For example 3 in battle smith artificer/17 in blade dancer gives constitution proficiencies, using intelligence for weapons, infusions (& a pet) and still gets 9th level spells eventually.

[@TheFadedAndy]

As a big fan of multiclassing in general, I’m very much looking forward to this, though I would like to point out that, while considering ability scores is important, having mismatched primary ability scores doesn’t mean a multiclass combo will be bad, a good example is a wizard with a 1/2 level dip into cleric, it’s often seen as one of the best support builds despite it’s non-synergistic primary ability scores

[@maximussilverwolf5107]

Might have to do a series with subclasses too. But for now, yall got a good grasp of what your looking for. Might need to look into more of the "min max" aspect rather than the role play aspect. Maybe start with a single class and go through all the multiclass options with said class. Example would be starting with sorcerer, and explore all the classes that work best with it for a weekly video.

[@chuckaduck964]

I've recently been mixing my favorite classes together and subclasses that I haven't used before. An echo knight fighter/phantom rogue, an oath of vengeance paladin/ celestial warlock, Then a way of the kensei monk/college of creation bard

[@leomichael8709]

I would suggest one of the criteria for A or B tier is the necessity of taking specific subclasses. For instance a paladin hexblade is amazing but a paladin, great old one may not be as powerful.

[@egonhomes]

There's a few multiclass combos that I want to note in addition to filling out the form. The first is the most powerful and variable IMHO: The High Elf Champion Fighter 3/Phantom Rogue 17 or the Shadar-Kai Champion Fighter 6/Phantom Rogue 14 (Both with Elven Accuracy). The difference is whether you want the extra feat and extra attack, or the extra damage from the Phantom Rogue 17. The other two are the Drunk (Druid/Monk) so the AC boosts and the attributes are both primaries, and the Artificer 1/Wizard 19. Artificer is the best start for Wizard unless it's a Bladesinger, wherein Rogue is the best first-level dip.

[@tobiwanknowsobi8119]

My favourite multiclass would be a Steel Dancer. Take 3 levels in Artificer (Battlesmith), grab the sweet stuff there, then multiclass into Bladesinger. Intelligence for attack and damage rolls is awesome, infusions are providing your basic magic items, a homunculus, steel defender and a familiar are your life insurance while absolutely shred everything in your way. This also comes with a longsword instead of a rapier for flavour. And you're going to be highly proficient in some vital skills as a nice surplus. The "downside" is getting some high tier spells somewhat later.

[@PhosphorusWhite]

For me, even though I think it's a B-Tier multiclass, I always love the Eldritch Knight/Wizard combo it's got so much versatility regardless of wizard subclass and you get all the great stuff from fighter even if you stop just at 5 levels(though you should go to 7 minimum for that bonus action attack).

[@AzureIV]

Eldritch Knight/Bladesinger is pretty solid.

[@Olav_Hansen]

You have to mention the potency of the synergy, because a perfect synergy can be "nice" like warlock spells and getting sorcery points that only works if you start pressuring the rules, but it might also have the kind of synergy as polearm master+sentinel. I would call it "having a true combo" in that case. Having one of those "true combo's" that enhance eachother to such an insane degree should instantly qualify for a tier higher then all the other features allow. I mentioned sorcery points as a nice to have, but the same warlock/sorcerer combination also has one of those 'true combo's, having quickened spell metamagic so that you can combine slinging high tier spells with eldritch blasts for tonnes of control and damage on top of the spells.

[@htenerf137]

This sounds awesome! My first thoughts on the challenge this ranking represents is how to judge the opportunity costs of when a build “comes online” I’ve played with some awesome one-shot builds that I’m positive would require my party to carry me until the PC is ready. I think a lot of “what class to pick” dead levels happen around when you get your extra attack. When you get spells of a certain level. And if a subclass feature (or even class feature) was worth it for that dead level.

[@cascadianone]

This is a huge endeavor, excited to see it. I think in addition to rating multi-class combos, you should really organize them into Types. Ex: One-Trick-Pony or Specific Focus multiclasses like Shadow Blade Wielder, Flying Grapple n Drop Monster, Ashardalon's Runner; Generic Optimization multiclasses like Arty 1 Wizard X for armor and Con save proficiency, Pali 6/Full caster for better Smites, Fighter 2/Anything else for Nova Burst... I think even within a specific multi-class set there may be wildly different builds based on feat choices, race, etc that bear discussion.

[@crownlexicon5225]

I have an issue with the criteria Mainly, some combos are stronger for starting in one class, but don't make that class the primary For example, I think most paladin multiclasses are better of starting paladin for the heavy armor proficiency, but end up stronger with more full caster levels for more smiting. The same could be said of a fighter/wizard who took 2 levels of fighter for heavy armor and action surge, then 18 levels in wizard for all the spellcasting.

[@OneWingedAngelsBand]

Sorcadins are generally my go-to characters. I just enjoy the versatility it brings, alllowing you damage foes in various ways (spells, melee combat or smite). My Divine Soul Sorcadin is probably my favorite main all time. (Using the homebrew expanded spell list rules of the Dungeon Dudes, of which I chose Twilight domain)

[@chrisvossler8795]

There are a LOT of options available. Just factoring in the number of class combinations, there are 156, but each of those comes with its own permutations. One potential issue I see with your stated criteria is when you START with a 1-level dip in a different class, but the majority of your levels are in the second class. Starting with a level of Artificer or Fighter is really good for a wizard (CON save proficiency and armor proficiencies); will you talk about that under the Wizard or under the Fighter/Artificer? Wizard is absolutely the primary class of that build, but it's not the first class.

[@Murrshack]

Starting with Artificer and jumping back and forth between Artillerist and Hexblade has been a TON of fun in my Strahd game. I’m at level 6 (3-3) and I am just moving enemies around the battlefield.

[@thevoid6756]

Kelly no! what is that color combo?! I normally adore your style, but this time...daring!

[@2keyblades]

Path of the Beast Barbarian and Horizon Walker Ranger. When you rage choose the claw option for an additional attack that Horizon Walker can turn into Force damage

[@Edrogrimshell]

Heh, I've got a Rogue/Barbarian multiclass, and I'm loving the thing. Currently level 3 in both. Reckless Sneak Attacks have been so useful for my character so far.

[@nicka3697]

So many variables i don't envy you. Not just when to dip, or how far to dive in but also which subclasses, particularly with options like hexblade that utterly change the way the class functions.

[@starbird3939]

Weird combo that works really well is Shadow Monk/Hexblade Warlock-I think partially because the Kii Points help mitigate some of the spell casting (almost the same way a sorlock). There is also Paladin/Barbarian builds that compliment eachother-but do have drawbacks (rage dispelling a paladin’s spell and can’t wear heavy armor).

[@stephentharp6770]

I did the survey. But I want to put down my top 3 mulitclasses in my experience by level and subclass included. 1: Wizard/Chronurgy/17, Artificer/Armorer/3. Called it the Dr. Doom build. Go 10 levels in wizard, 3 in Artificer and then the rest in wizard. Makes up for the AC and puts alot of roleplay potential for those that want to be the most badass villain 2. Paladin/Any(I did watchers)/16, Barbarian/Any(I did Zealot)/4. The Chosen Juggernaut build. Go 6 Paladin, 4 Barbarian to help with feat or asi, then rest Paladin. 3.Rogue/Mastermind/14, Bard/Eloquence/6 levels. Called this the Count Olaf build cuz overall how I rolled, the many feats and spells I took. I could talk or fool my way out of any problem no matter how stupid. But those are my personal top 3 I've done. Hope anyone that tries them out enjoys

[@danielmaar8683]

As your discussed the A tier I just had to think of sorcadin... "Well you first gonna take even 5-7 levels in your baseclass but than afterwards the new features you gain, just outperform the features you would gain from your original class..." Thats exactly sorcadin...

[@jonp8015]

A combo I'm playing with currently is an Alchemist Artificer with a two level dip in Genie Warlock. Technically it's a B-Tier multiclass, because it benefits from both Int and Cha, but taking the right Warlock spell choices can minimize this, and the benefit of using short-rest Warlock spell slots to create Elixirs is pretty huge. It's enough to elevate the Alchemist from being really bad to high B-tier. In my own opinion.

[@bearfan0216]

My absolute favorite multiclass that I've played was a gloomstalker ranger 5, swashbuckler rogue 15. Believe it or not it had fantastic synergy. Dump strength and focus on Dex, Wis, and Cha. It works best with point buy but you can still use standard array to great effect.

[@reinierkwint9419]

As others in the comments have pointed out, Subclass matters a lot with multiclassing (and it's a shame that the form doesn't let you account for that), for example: One multiclass that's very good despite having different spellcasting modifiers is the Storm Sorcerer who dips 2 levels into Tempest Cleric, as it not only mitigates some of the weaknesses, but also enhances what they're both great at. They get some nice proficiency with martial weapons and heavy armor, which makes them surprisingly tanky. If they start with Sorcerer, they get proficiency with con saves, which helps with maintaining concentration. The clericspells they cast are probably mostly 1st level buff or healing spells, so the spellcasting modifier doesn't matter as much. The main reason you would is that their abilities synergize, as the Tempest Cleric doesn't normally get the best lightning/thunder spells, but the Storm Sorcerer, who does get those spells (Lightning Bolt, Thunderstep) gets to maximize the damage with the Tempest Cleric Channel Divinity; Destructive Wrath. And with the Tasha's Metamagic option Transmuted Spell, they're able to turn any of their spells into Lightning or Thunder (which lets them do something like do max damage by transmuting Disintegrate into Thunder and then using Channel divinity). The only price is that they have to wait two levels to gain their higher level spells, which isn't as bad, as they still get the highest spellslots, and combining Upcasting, and Channel Divinity; Destructive Wrath, makes those spellslots really count.

[@foleylione]

So many of these multi-class combos are relative to the campaign setting. Guns are a game changer. Heavy doses of social encounters change the viability of many classes let alone combos. My group is doing a Star Wars band campaign and finally a glamour bard matters.

[@piojestsuper]

Sounds great! Can't wait for the first episode

[@skeyedrake5929]

Before watching, I'd like to say my favorite high level build is combing monk with barbarian. Way of kensei + any barbarian subclass The synergy works best if you have potions of strength so you can increase your dex and rely on str when needed. At the DMs discretion you may use 3 stats to increase your unarmored defense. Since some monk weapons use strength and you have the option to just use str instead of dex you'll gain the +2 or more while raging.

[@Comicsluvr]

I filled out the survey (really excited about this series, BTW). A few things that I think you should consider with regard to your rankings: 1) How 'complete' the build is by level 8. Since many games apparently don't get into the higher levels, I think a combo that comes online sooner should be ranked as stronger than one that takes ten levels to get on track. 2) Feats. Since feats are still an optional choice for the DM, I think that builds that need Feats to really shine should be ranked lower than Featless builds. 3) Racial bonuses. Thanks to Tasha's we can now (optionally) assign racial stats as we wish but I think that if a build can benefit from the benefits of several races (something with a high Dex for example since many races grant bonuses to Dex) then it should get a slight bump over those that have narrower racial choices.

[@B.J.Camire]

Love it. Really looking forward to this series.

[@carsonrush3352]

Here's my rules for multiclassing: Rule 1- Match primary and secondary stats as much as possible: STR (Barb, Fi, Pal), DEX (Mon, Ra, Ro), INT (Art, Wiz, Fi (EK), Ro (AT)), WIS (Cl, Dr, Mon, Ra), CHA (Bard, Pal, Sor, Warl). Ruler 2- Know your battle row: Frontline (Barb, Pal, Fi). These guys can take the heat of being in the thick of it. They might still outlive the party. Frontline Support (Ro, Mon, Ra, Cl, Dr, Art, Bladelock). These guys can survive near the frontline, but can't take the weight of the frontline. Back Row (Bard, Sor, Warl, Wiz). Keep these guys away from the frontline unless you wish to watch them get bodied. A level of barbarian, a melee-focused subclass, the tough feat, or some other boost to HP and AC can bring you forward by a row. However, I would reserve the frontline for those who are natural front-liners or those who can rage. Rule 3- A strong 1-2 level dip can make a build: rogue for skill monkeys, barbarian for front-lining, fighter for nuking, paladin for smites, warlock for sweet gimmicks, druid for scouting, and cleric for a power surge. These are the best low-level dip features. Rule 1 makes good multiclassing possible. Rules 2 and 3 make multiclassing great. Mix all three, and you have a rocking formula. Using two classes from Rule 3 makes for a build that comes online early. Lastly, classes that get extra attack or 3rd level spells really like to have them no later than 7th level. Try to plan for a way to make up for that early loss of power. The classes from Rule 3 make the best secondary classes to make up for the power loss until it comes online. With that in mind, these are my top combos: Artificer: Wizard, Rogue, Barbarian Barbarian: Druid, Rogue, Warlock Bard: Rogue, Warlock, Fighter, Cleric: Rogue, Druid, Fighter Druid: Barbarian, Rogue, Cleric, Fighter: Barbarian, Wizard, Sorcerer Monk: Druid, Rogue, Barbarian Paladin: Sorcerer, Warlock, Barbarian Ranger: Druid, Barbarian, Rogue Rogue: Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer: Warlock, Paladin, Fighter Warlock: Sorcerer, Paladin, Bard, Wizard: Artificer, Fighter, Rogue

[@carsonrush3352]

On top of these build guidelines, I would rate the strength of a homebrew against the closest single class build that would otherwise be selected for estimating the desired gameplay. Also, refer to the Dungeon Dudes class role tier list for defining the most important features of a class. Some classes focus on utility and exploration. Others are combat-centric. Some give great boosts of action economy. Others are great at the interaction pillar. Use the strengths of one class to shore up the weaknesses of another class. If a class needs more things to do outside of combat, then maybe select a second class based on the desired skills and utility and use the primary class for killing. A dip can do a TON.

[@Brynhold]

Action Surge is good (or broken) whatever you play. (Even Rogue who can't benefit from 2 sneak attacks a turn, you can still use Action Surge if you missed.)

[@studentofsmith]

Action Surge is great but depending on your build that first level of fighter may not be particularly useful for you. If I don't have something to do with my bonus action I like to pick up Cunning Action because every character can benefit from expertise.

[@aro1284]

Very hyped for this series! Looking forward to seeing these videos pop up.

[@marcuspacheco3815]

My top three combos are fighter based. An 8/12 split of (8) Eldridge knight and blade singer (12). Gains a lot of great stuff. Your extra attack might come a little bit later since you're going to start with two levels of fighter. But your spellcasting totally makes up for the damage lost and your ability to cast to fireballs at level 5 makes it way better than being just a mage. At 7 you take your third level of fighter and go ek now you won't even need a spell book anymore. Ultimately you end up with 7th level spells which are great. You can't do the super high level spells but you can cast 6th and 7th level spell in the same turn and that's pretty epic. Combining the right spells can be absolutely devastating even at the lower levels. For example cast web and then also cast hypnotic pattern.... That's a messed up thing to do. You end up with a lot better spell diversity. Also unlike the regular Eldritch Knight who is limited to using a cantrip and making one bonus action attack you can now make a third attack. So blade singer lets you use a can trip and then make an extra attack. But because you cast a cantrip you also get to make a bonus action attack through Eldritch knight. Which is not an extra attack it's a bonus action. If you want to be more fiery you could even take 10 Eldridge night and then your attacks would undercut savings throws but I think the better split is 8/12. The wizard games the ability to take hits. You can become an absolute tank now wearing heavy armor casting shield smashing stuff with a great sword or a long sword or a rapier depending on whatever your base stats want to be. I highly suggest you snatch up mobile (dex) or charger (str) and War caster. Charger will let knock people down, then you can booming blade them and back up 10 ft. That leaves them with a terrible choice get up and move toward you and then eat the booming blade or stay where they are and get charged again. If you take a poll arm and pull on Master you can make it even more of a terrible choice for them. If you're rolling for stats and you rolled up a 20 in strength, go crazy and take polar master and sentinel and then just make it an absolute nightmare to fight you. Anything that runs away you blast with magic. Plus you get cool stuff like having a bound weapon. One of which could become your spell focus. Like there's a lot of great little tie-ins to one another that make each one better than the other. My next fighter combo is 4 battle master, 4 arcane trickster, 12 blade singer. For this one it's kind of a toss-up whether you want to take rogue or fighter for your first two levels. That'll really depend on the kind of character you're playing if you want to have the extra proficiencies and be super sneaky or not. Again you're going to end up with just warcaster probably. As you're going to need to be dex fighter. This character will probably make more use of blade song than the one above. Who won't really need it at all. The idea here is that you use your disengage to pull off the same kind of booming blade moves and instead of having an extra (bonus action) attack you put a little extra flair on your physical attacks with your battle master moves. The important part here is that you do 2 rouge or 2 fighter upfront then grab at least 3 wizard. Usually if I'm doing a fighter build I'm going to do the above class. For this one I'm going to grab rogue probably first take the proficiencies be a little bit sneakier add in My wizard power. The go all wiz to 8th level to grab my extra attack. After that I'll pick up my 4 fighter levels to get battle manuvers and an ability increase. Then I'll push the next ones up to the next ability score increases. 2 rouge and then all wiz. Not only does this have the fun factor of letting you call yourself a rouge wizard, it has a lot of great ways to manufacture a little bit of extra damage for the extra attack. Plus you still get the cheese people with booming blade and disengage and you don't have to be as tanky cuz you get the option to just run away from everything with your bonus action. Plus the wizard gives you a lot of great ways to manufacture advantage for your sneak attack. You can do it by disguising self or turning invisible or casting darkness and pulling out Shadow blade. It's not obvious how good it really is until you try using it. It's way better than being an arcane trickster. And the rogue skills make for some really nice skills to have as a wizard. There's nothing like being a blurry wizard who runs around the battlefield tripping people and putting thunder curses on them.... Runners up are to take the fighter and then take any kind of logical dip into barbarian, ranger or druid. Barb- here is a mix that you can't really go wrong with. But I find it's best to be mostly fighter and just get that rage. The druid can really benefit from action surge especially if he's a circle of the moon and a grizzly bear or elk or whatever and gets some kind of crazy multi attack already. Ranger can be a good dip for low-level games. Getting an extra attack on the first turn and especially if you're an Archer getting some special bow powers in a game that tops out at like level 7 is pretty great. Plus it comes with a bunch of movement and nature benefits. My third pick is a little different. Let's say I'm in a game and I didn't roll great on dex or strength but I got a decent charisma score. Well now it's time to mix up warlock paladin and sorcerer. Warlock lets you get that perfect hex weapon packed weapon combo. Now you can cast with your hitting skill.... Hit with your casting skill? Either way it gives you a great excuse to just pump charisma and constitution. Throwing paladin into the mix lets you customize this character to be whatever you want. Do you want to be a tank who can cast some spells start off as a paladin then break your oath and become a warlock and then add in some sorcerer later. Now you can take hits with the best of them smite people probably extra attack and still have some pretty nasty spells to fling around.... You can literally customized this anyway. Use an exploit to twist sorcery points into warlock spell slots and then make more sorcery points and become like an unlimited casting machine. A kind of bottomless well of spell power. The idea here is basically you're just going to grab the warlock skills you need to either do your spell point conversions or get your hex weapon and then mix up paladin and sorcerer to get what you want either more fighting ability or more spell-casting ability or a decent mix of the two. Having all three be able to work off charisma definitely makes them as tear. I feel like my above mixes of fighter and wizard and fighter wizard and rogue are a or s tier easily as well. It might not look that way on paper. Because your ability scores are a little more spread out. But percentage-wise there's a very marginal difference between an 18 and a 20 in a scale and the kind of all-in-one Swiss army knife level a versatility that being with rogue and wizard or fighter and wizard gives you is absurd. And they work better off one another then you might initially think. Once you get used to them you can get crazy clever. Of course I can do this with the paladin warlock sorcerer 2 but it just never quite feels as varied as the others. That being said stats are out of control and it does make you a powerhouse. I feel like they are both equal and at level 20 I'm not really sure who would win in fight. I think it would more come down to who was playing the given characters.

[@KaroxNightshade]

What I do think is fun is that sometimes your multiclass isn't a "dip" into another class, it can always be used as a method of storytelling as part of a character arc. I drew up a character for a oneshot and he was effectively a thief on the streets in the slums of a rich city (levels in rogue), and then he got picked up by a knight, who would pardon his crimes in return for him following justice and learning to be a knight (levels in fighter). He's never gonna get any more than the starting levels of Rogue, he's full-on knight, so he's gonna be somewhat similar to a knight that dipped into swashbuckler while having Swashbuckler being his technical mechanical base. I'm quite happy with it, and I like the idea of the multiclass showing more of a change of heart than a "ooh this compliments my character's vibe and story." Not saying one's better than the other, I just think one's much less common and if pulled off well, can outshine a lot of other storytelling devices.

[@sspectre8217]

A fun though not optimal multiclass is an artillerist with a 2 lvl dip into Bard. It’s a very flexible build, you get decent utility, support, damage and great for role playing and being the face of the party.

[@yamato9753]

My favorite Multiclass of all time is rogue and 2-3 levels of barbarian. This relies on a special way of wording in sneak attack that requires you to use a finesse weapon. Use a rapier, but attack with strength. This allows you to combine sneak Attack and reckless Attack to guarantie a sneak Attack. There are other complimentations here. Rogues struggle with armor class and low health. The barbarians unarmored defense and rage features help here a lot. Barbarians need to go to the front line fast. Rogues can dash as a bonus action, and disengage if you wanna/need to play defensive. The drawback: this is semi-MAD. You need dexterity for AC and sneaking, strength for attacking, constitution for health and AC as well. You need to manage all this. And the mental stats for your rogue skills. I love this character, as it reminds me of slasher Horror. A strong and athletic warrior that sneaks upon his opponements and strikes with fatal results. As the victims allies stand there, frozen in place by shock, the other Party members storm in and Initiative is being rolled.

[@JKLauderdale]

2lvl Graviturgy Mage -> Shield Master Fighter Adjust Density+Shove lets you toss your opponent back into difficult terrain, into a mob of other attackers, off a ledge etc. It also lets you use help infiltration via climbing or the occasional need for increased density - Adjust Density is NOT an attack, it doesn't require a save and you can bring any "Large or smaller" flying creature down to ground lvl or sink most swimmers.

[@rebelsteelman1755]

One of my Favorite Multiclasses is start Artificer for 3 and take the Armorer and then go Wizard the rest of the way, I prefer either Bladesinger or Scribes but really any wizard gains so much. You still get 9th lv spells and slots, Con saves, Heavy armor proficiency, infusions like the Mind Sharpener and +1 arcane focus. Chefs kiss 💋

[@jacobc246]

I'm playing a battlemaster fighter oath of conquest paladin and I'm noticing I can use a maneuver along with a spell to double abilities, thunderous smite and trip attack especially with channel divinity +10 to attack makes 2 strength checks or be knocked prone. Combine that with someone giving them disadvantage on strength checks and they may have to make 4 rolls or be knocked prone.

[@erdmaennchen105]

As others have said, something like a split tierlist, one for general multiclass, and one for specific subclasses woud be good idea. Like have warlock in b, but hexblade in s.

[@LokangoFreewar15]

For me an A Tier could be 1 Hexblade/x Swashbuckler Rogue for melee combat for this reasons: - Gain medium armor and shield prof. That Rogue doesn't - Stack Arcanetrickster's cantrips in Swashbuckler (Booming Blade stacks with sneak attack, Minor illusion and mage hand and Eldritch blast if you want a ranged option that doesn't stack with sneak attack) - Focus on Charisma for Panache - little detriment to initiative thanks to Rakish Audacity The rest are minor benefits (like hex boosting panache, Hexblade's curse boosting damage and healing and the shield spell) and you only lost a half 1d6 sneak attack

[@steviedee97]

Possibly a C tier or D tier given your ratings but one of the most enjoyable characters I've created. Cleric/Wizard. Specifically, Standard Array stats Warforged Forge Cleric 6, War Wizard 14. It is low tier as you need/want to have Str 15 to wear heavy armour as well as split stats Int/Wis. Full caster gets to L9 slots, Multiclass gives access to more cantrips offsetting negative of War Wizard deflection ability. Spell choice is key to what you want to achieve, but both have ways to regain spell slots making the character better for longer throughout the day. High AC, very versatile and contributing significantly to my L8 party which includes a gloomstalker, a twilight cleric, a lore bard and pal/druid smite bear.

[@Herbalizer28]

Very interested in this one ! I've been spending countless of hours trying to find multiclassing combos for strong, cool, fun and/or thematic characters ..

[@norokodven4768]

My favorite multiclass is the fighter sorcerer. Start with fighter, stick to it for 6-8 levels then take sorcerer for 12 Lvs or more. It is a great combo for a tank/damage dealing spellsword. My recommendation. would be Divine Soul/ Battle Master.

[@TyLarson]

Sorcadin and wizard/articer are two of my favorites. Rogue/ranger can be dangerous too. A level dip of cleric can be pretty great.

[@bigbbrendan]

You dudes absolutely MUST have seperate videos for the battle Smith artificer and hexblade warlock. Giving the opportunity for a single attribute attack stat and casting stat is insanely beneficial for multi-classing that can't be hand waved in amongst other subclasses and possibilities.

[@simonmoody8400]

One aspect of multiclassing that I feel is often overlooked is that of spell preperation. Of course primary caster classes that multiclass into non casters or lesser casters, will slow their progression towards high level spells and number of spells per day, but just as important, most will also be hit on the number of spells they have prepared, which I think often has the biggest impact on Wizards. Thus in the 'trade off' aspect, I'd urge for that to be kept in mind. That a multiclass Wizard is simply not going to have room for flavourful, what if and niche spells. Once you take into account some all but must have daily spells, eg Shield, Misty Step, Counterspell, possibly Dispel Magic, a couple of direct damage spells and an all around control spell (my go to would be Suggestion), even a 10th level Wizard has chewed through about half their prepared spells. And that is a very bare bones list. Add Find Familair (which I simply don't like), Mirror Image, Haste or Slow, Web, Hypnotic Pattern and you have room for only a very few specific situational spells, eg Earthbind if your going after a flying monster, Fly, Dimension Door (an almost must have for many) etc. A Wizard hampered by a non maxed Int and split classing simply is not even close to being 'king' of all around spellcasting. A Bladsing/Eldrich Knight multiclass focused on what that sort of character does best, I won't knock for one second, but it will have significant limitations on what sort of spells it has in it's back pocket when it isn't in the middle of magical melee combat.

[@bretthughes27]

While I've never played D&D, I have been playing BG3 EA, which eventually led me to your videos. They are well done. My hope for this new series is that you also let us know which multiclasses work if you are restricted to PHB.

[@SwogglesFroggles]

I like the "Aggro Paladin" build. Focus on CHA/CON, start as paladin, 1 level in hexblade warlock, and then hit 5 on paladin and then head back to hexblade for more spells and invocations.

[@derekbush6239]

Bard(Any)/Hexblade will always be my favorite multiclass.