Wizard Subclass Tier Ranking (Part 2) for Dungeons and Dragons 5e

MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarter.com/projects/... We take a look at the remaining subclasses found in the players hand book for the Wizard class. we discuss the ones we think are the strongest and most reliable in play and compare our thoughts to those of the community.
This weeks episode is SPONSORED by Grim Hollow: the Monster Grimoire. check out the kickstarter here. bit.ly/3wy4AKd
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TIME STAMPS
0:00 - Sponsor
0:53 - Intro
2:28 - Evocation
11:17 - Illusion
18:09 - Necromancy
24:02 - Transmutation
32:15 - Community Rankings
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[@Kabissz]

Underestimating the necromancer could be considered a grave error.

[@GrumpyGrobbyGamer]

Booooooooooooo. That pun will be the death of me

[@Kabissz]

@@GrumpyGrobbyGamer That unintentional (?) ghost pun will haunt me!

[@LongShaynx]

@@Kabissz No need to be so ghoulish in your response

[@fireheart6267]

@@LongShaynx God these puns are ghastly!

[@d-swagg9683]

Yeah if only there was a campaign where the DM didn't heavily advise against making undead minions. that's the problem I always come across trying to play necromancer

[@nicholasavicolli8944]

"You could turn a chair into another chair" Is a perfect way to describe how restrictive the ability is.

[@ShieTar_]

Not very usefull when you play a typical "save the world" campaign. Much more usefull when you play a "get rich as smugglers" campaign ;-)

[@photoo848]

You could turn an iron door/lock into a wooden one

[@diamienthesunbro7834]

Or turn a wood door to an iron or iron bars to wood :o

[@dahelmang]

You could turn an iron door into an open iron door with a lock only you can open.

[@ShieTar_]

@@diamienthesunbro7834 Or a brick wall into a gingerbread wall, and then just eat your way out of prison.

[@mattbriddell9246]

Monty: "I do think (Evocation) is a bit over-rated to give it S rank" JoCat fans: "What's your point, person within Fireball range?"

[@imatroll7051]

Luckily, I prepared absorb elements.

[@AngelCanseco1]

@@imatroll7051time for evasive maneuvers! *Moves lazily to the left*

[@nickmillar999]

@@AngelCanseco1my god, that guy’s got some moves

[@user-hf8sv2mp9f]

fireball on a single target ? Not a verry good use it amateur

[@vision_312]

Dungeon Dudes: There are no AOE Cantrips * acid splash cries in corner *

[@devin5201]

Acid Splash is one of my favorite 'trips.

[@asherandai1000]

@@devin5201 Store it in a can. Now you have a canned trip.

[@devin5201]

@@asherandai1000 beautiful, remarkable word play.

[@arbitrary_thoughts]

First one that came to my mind was create bonfire

[@Hollyclown]

@@asherandai1000 artificer vibes right there.

[@jonathanlautre489]

"Transmuter allows you to turn into a giant eagle once per short rest but at level 10 I don't see you doing in combat"... *Caleb* - "hold my transmuter stone"

[@kellywelch2515]

Dude! For real though. And in recent episodes his transformed into a giant ape... That's almost a free tensor's transformation

[@kellywelch2515]

Now to be fair, he used a spell slot for.that one- but that meant the stone gave an exploration polymorph. I do agree that it's a weaker subclass... But for me it'd be a solid B

[@havcola6983]

Getting a free cast of a severely downgraded Polymorph spell is not particularly impressive in a class that already has the highest number of available spell slots in the game, though. And, well... While Critical Role is a fun watch, Matt Mercer is a LOT more permissive and rule-of-cool-y than many DMs (and don't get me wrong, CR is better for it) so that something works at that table is by no means a good measurement of how good the subclass stacks up by a stricter rules interpretation.

[@maid_of_heart3261]

@@havcola6983 I compare that ability to the druid's Wild Shape, which is an ability you get at level 2 and upgrade at levels 4 and 8... that you're getting at level 10 and you lose your mental stats and can't concentrate on anything else if you use it

[@dylandugan76]

This is much more a testament to the creativity and trust among the CR cast than to the efficacy of the Transmutation subclass. Don't forget that Liam has also had more fun annoying Matt to a far greater degree with Keen Mind than he ever did with Lucky. This doesn't change the fact that Lucky is objectively the best feat and Keen Mind is among the worst. Just because something is "bad", doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in the game. Transmutation may be the least powerful subclass for a wizard by a wide margin, but that doesn't mean no one will ever play it. There's no reason you can't have fun and be effective, just because better options exist.

[@carlosforma5978]

Can't wait for the Ranking of the Tasha's Classes.

[@Teaandephemery]

Peace & Twilight Clerics: S+. Ban them.

[@aparke22]

​@@Teaandephemery I agree. Twilight Cleric is stupidly unbalanced. Just the Channel Divinity alone is way too OP (not to mention all the other crap). I'm DMing a group and one of my players is running a Twilight Cleric. I regret allowing him to play it but it's too late now.

[@dylanba5251]

@@Teaandephemery Going to add Eloquence to the Ban list too.

[@albertobenagli7622]

Order of Scribes also looks fine on paper, never played one tho

[@bj8701]

@@albertobenagli7622 I’m currently playing one. It actually feels a little underwhelming.

[@benfawefwaeffwaefawfdekk2080]

On Necromancy wizard: A big negative that depends on the DM, getting corpses and transporting thralls can be a HUGE pain. Town will get scared by your thralls, if you can even find more than a few humanoid bodies to rez in the first place

[@luigiluis3d482]

Yeah, you quite literally need a bag of holding bones if you plan on playing a necromancer

[@arandomcheese]

The artificer in my party lets the necromancer carry his bones in his bag of holding.

[@tayo3340]

I'm playing a necromancer only lvl 4 at the moment but we just found a portable hole so I've started throwing in skeletons then when I get animate dead they can just climb in and out when needed..I do need to go shopping for a 10 ft ladder though

[@Apprenticetothesith]

I played the stereotypical evil necromancer, so instead of finding bodies, I just made them. And as far as traveling, put them into formation and have them march ahead of you. Sure, you'll scare the townsfolk, but who would dare challenge a literal undead army?

[@mavisbeowulf7036]

5th Level Seeming spell can give your skeleton army the appearance of living soldiers or mercenaries! You look like a VIP strolling through town with your entourage in tow :)

[@Reestar-jv5jh]

Illusionist wizard level 14+ Eldritch Adept Feat with Misty visions Casting Silent image up to ten times a minute Reality can be whatever I want it to be.

[@overlordb1989]

This does put a smile on my face.

[@michaelball2529]

Silent Image is a concentration spell so when you cast it again your other Silent Image will disappear. That includes the parts of the illusions you make real, and you can alter silent image with your 6th level feature so you don't need to recast it to get a different illusion. You do save a spell slot though so you got that.

[@normal6483]

@@michaelball2529 That part is actually up to debate. I've seen people that say that since the object is real now, it isn't part of the spell and doesn't disappear when you lose concentration. By the same vein, it can't be changed with Malleable Illusions anymore because it's no longer an illusion, but a real object for 1 minute.

[@michaelball2529]

@@normal6483 Yay I know you can't alter an object because it isn't an illusion anymore. The point I was trying to make was that malleable illusions takes away from the strength of eldritch adept (misty visions/mask of many faces). Since you only need to cast the spell once and can use malleable illusions to change the illusion without recasting the spell.

[@wolfboy2423]

Mirage arcane malleable illusion you are the master of reality

[@whiteraven562]

The Toll the Dead cantrip goes really well with the half-damage on a failed save for cantrips thing for cantrips

[@rcschmidt668]

Chill touch is also good for undead enemies with innate healing, and at 120 ft. range.

[@andrewpeli9019]

The evoker is very front loaded. Their best subclass feature is right there at the beginning. I think that the Dungeon Dudes rating it lower than the community is in part a reflection on how consistently their play group has campaigns go the distance, while the rest of us see a lot of campaigns end before we get to the point where fireball is no longer the end-all-be-all spell. I also think that DM skill plays an impact, as lower skill DMs don't offer as much outside of combat (hence we as players value raw combat power over things that are more flexible) and lower skill DMs tend to build encounters that are prone to get creamed by a fireball. That all said, being able to shape fireball is a big deal. More optimal positioning of the spell does directly translate to more attacks hitting. And in a game where combat is about action economy, hitting one more enemy or not hitting one more ally is a big deal.

[@liladuvendack9931]

Another thing that stands out to me is the savant skill, If you’re a more combat oriented wizard, chances are evocation is going to make up a decent chunk of your spell list especially early on, so half off is a great way to help reduce the costs of becoming more potent, despite potential monetary restrictions

[@sour_kraut5719]

I also think Evocation is under rated by them. I'd give it a solid A, if not low S, because of some otherwise okay spells that it turns godly. Frostbite is a pretty decent cantrip, but to a 11th level evo wizard it is incredible. I think the errata changing the Int damage was to stop Magic Missile becoming the most powerful spell in the game, but it still adds almost two extra missiles of damage to it. The point is to use AOE spells, which can turn this ability nuts. Every enemy you hit x 5 adds up to a lot of damage on spells like Otilukes Freezing Sphere, Sunburst, Dark Star(if DM allowed), Cone of Cold, etc. Combine that with being able to drop it on your allies with zero risk keeps you extremely relevant through to the end of each fight. The big one I think they missed with Overcharge is Bigbys Hand. 36 force damage as a bonus action per turn is nothing to sneeze at.

[@chainsawboy2388]

@@sour_kraut5719your really overrating it, the bonus damage from it is not enough and the level 14 ability while cool is too detrimental to you, sculpt spells is the only good factor, but it’s so good that it bumps it up a tier or 2 on its own at least to me

[@AmariieMaerthos]

I made a Gnome Necromancer once. He was happy, helpful, cheerful, and not evil. He had absolutely no problem raising the dead in battle and had a couple magic items that could summon intelligent versions of basic undead inhabited by the spirits of particular dead warriors. He was absolutely amazing

[@WanderingRagabond]

"The wizards are spoiled for choice." Wizards are spoiled for most things, let's be honest... A spell list with no upper limit, a giant number of spells learned just from leveling up, an enormous list of subclasses, ritual casting AND spell slot recovery... Wizards of the Coast think they're being slick.

[@thebitterfig9903]

The “save the spell slots” thing really highlights the difference between Transmutation and Abjuration. Transmuters get niche utility effects. Abjurers get blanket toughness that will be handy in just about every fight. The gap between C-tier and A, nicely illustrated.

[@Chetthew21]

I literally shouted "YES" and clapped when I saw this in my feed. Popping off for two cool as heck dudes reviewing stuff I like.

[@Samueras]

Yeah I was really looking forward to that and am.eaiting for the last one, even though.I haven't watched it fully yet

[@jayagliett6956]

Hell yes. I had the same reaction!

[@isaacgraff8288]

Sees a nightwalker, Control Undead. Some time later "I cast Gate, Tim, I choose you." Nightwalker called Tim walks through gate ready to wreck shop where ever you are.

[@currentlygaming577]

"If there was one AoE cantrip." I grant you they aren't ranged, but Sword Burst and Thunderclap are both AoE.

[@antongrigoryev6381]

Acid Splash can target two creatures within 5ft of each other.

[@Fenix-jz9zm]

Word of Radiance

[@zsDUGGZ]

@@antongrigoryev6381 same with Green flame blade

[@devin5201]

@@zsDUGGZ but sadly it isn't a saving throw spell...

[@currentlygaming577]

@@Fenix-jz9zm Yeah but Wizards can't get it without multiclassing, and I believe this list looks at the base version

[@jayharyu927]

I was super excited to make a Transmutation Wizard as a part of the Simic Combine on Ravnica... Then I read the transmutation wizard.

[@rgractor]

Empowered Evocation + Magic Missile is amazing! Jeremy Crawford confirmed you only roll 1 die of damage when casting Magic Missile and that damage is done by each dart. The wording of Empowered Evocation means you can add your Int modifier to that 1 roll which applies to all the darts. This takes Magic a Missile from 1d4 + 1 to 1d4 + 6 per dart, assuming your Int mod is 5, and an overchannelled 5th leveled Magic Missile does 70 force dmg (which not many creatures have resistance to) which is not bad at all.

[@natp8888]

I know, right? This irritated me incredibly. And they ignore that Toll of the Dead is a powerful cantrip that will usually do CantripLevel#d12 to an enemy, halved if they save when you hit level 6. That's pretty strong, especially because it is more likely to do full damage against more powerful melee combatants, who typically won't make the wisdom save. And even if they do, it's half a number of d12s, which is functionally stronger and less costly than a lot of other forms of damage.

[@Stringbean670]

I saw a 20th level build that was able to do 500-700 damage in one round with magic missile. It involved 1 level of hexblade, 2 levels of fighter, 17 evoker wizard.

[@taliavaryn4393]

Very interesting. Thanks. "If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them." No need for Overchannel and take 10d12 dmg (average 65 dmg) and potential Instant Death. You already make 49 to 70 dmg (average 59.5).

[@JoeL-nr8df]

How did they not mention Magic Missile? It’s just too awesome to do that much damage to one target.

[@kazebaret]

Well, Jeremy Crawford confirmed that this is how they played to their table, but the general ruling about it is still unclear.

[@evanchartrand6663]

I through a zombie tarrasque at my players in the second last battle of my last campaign, the necro wizard ended up riding it into the boss battle

[@looneypersoney]

My man

[@JaelinBezel]

That sounds pretty badass

[@Senok13]

There is no such thing as a "Zombie Tarrasque" - there is only ONE Tarrasque, and it's a true immortal - even if you defeat it, it only falls unconscious, and sleeps until regain all of it HP-s (which is an extremely long process). Do not forget, that we talking about the child of the god of destruction!

[@RipTore44]

@@Senok13 in your world not his.

[@chainsawboy2388]

@@Senok13that loses to anything with a ranged attack that can fly higher than it can reach

[@pokemaster5461]

Plague Doctor Necromancer. If ya cant heal 'em, raise them. Also a fun illusionist thing to do is, if a gnome or similar shorter race, put the illusion of a barrel around yourself. Instant visual coverage.

[@32Loveless50]

plague doctor is almost what i play :D Mark of Healing Halfling Wizard Necromancer. i can heal and make undeads, as the mark of healing halfling adds some healing spells to the list you chose your spells from :) Dr. Faustus Pipt. "i get you up and running, even if you are dead" :D

[@hoppyhopper2020]

I'm (kind of) playing a plauge doc too! Mine is a Cleric of the Grave Dark Elf :) I went with cleric instead of alchemist artificer or wizard because I wanted to do a holier build that focused on balancing life and death.

[@Qin_Metit7777]

It'd be fun if once all the rankings are done, they reworked the C and D tier subclasses but keeping their flavor

[@ThrawnIsAlive]

That would be sweet! They're gonna need something to fill the Tuesday upload slot.

[@GuardianTactician]

Nice idea, though it would be a lot of work. Makes me wonder what they would do to fix the Purple Dragon Knight.

[@Qin_Metit7777]

@@GuardianTactician That one WOULD be very tough, might as well just make a new subclass since its all garbage, but theres room in the flavor of "elegant knight"

[@tintillor]

This is a great idea!

[@deadseven3474]

@@GuardianTactician Either build a battlemaster with some leadership maneuvers or just play Cavalier if you wanna be a knight.

[@cloudstone123]

So people were up in arms over the transmuter stone being able to make a wizard immortal? It is a 14th level ability. One more level and you get the clone spell which effectively does the same thing.

[@collinbeal]

Divination wizards can become liches at level 11 with Magic Jar and Portent

[@collinbeal]

In that instance, Clone just serves as a nice backup if you get caught with your pants down, and Wish makes it viable for combat. Orochimaru time

[@cloudstone123]

@Jerry Dove I was referring to what they said in the video about it once not having that restriction before final publishing until it was changed.

[@maid_of_heart3261]

@@cloudstone123 Yeah. They say Wizards was scared of wizards making themselves immortal with that ability, but there are spells that do that already in the PHB

[@RobKinneySouthpaw]

To play a transmuter, I'd almost rather use the illusionist school, evocation, or even divination, and just make sure I take all the transmittation spells

[@solar4planeta923]

Yeah, I'm playing a transmuter wizard. I can see how illusionist school would be better. With the combination of the schools, no one would ever know if his shenanigans were real, shadow-real, or illusory. Divination does great for forcing success on Banishment and similar save-or-suck spells, so I would take that if my real goal was conjuring, but don't see how the divination subclass helps the transmuter much.

[@TheMojeff]

High level evocation wizard gets surrounded: “meteor swarm... for all of you”

[@danielcruz4960]

Overchannel Starting at 14th level, you can increase the power of your simpler spells. When you cast a wizard spell of 5th level or lower that deals damage and isn't a cantrip, you can deal maximum damage with that spell. yeah not as useful as you think it is

[@ikmart112]

@@danielcruz4960 he was talking about spell sculpting

[@danielcruz4960]

@@ikmart112 oh that makes more sense

[@binolombardi]

Sculpt spell doesn’t protect the evocation wizard from its own effects, it has to be “other” creatures.

[@jesseconer1249]

@@binolombardi That can also be interpreted as other than the target

[@ThrawnIsAlive]

"You can turn any object into any other object that isn't more valuable. What do you want to do?" Monty: 25:55

[@ThrawnIsAlive]

I just realized how much I've been beating up on Monty this episode. I didn't mean it, I promise. Keep up the good work guys!

[@beckerscantbechoosers6768]

That moment when you say that Loki uses his illusions to thwart his enemies, yet all I hear is Loki uses illusions to THORt his enemies :D

[@Chazz_K]

GET HELP!

[@LoboDibujante]

Updated tier list (regarding both The Dungeon Dudes and the users): S TIER - Path of the Totem Warrior (Barbarian) - College of Lore (Bard) - Life Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Moon (Druid) - Battle Master (Fighter) - Echo Knight (Fighter) - Gloom Stalker Conclave (Ranger) - Divine Soul (Sorcerer) - The Hexblade (Warlock) - School of Divination (Wizard) A+ TIER - Path of the Zealot (Barbarian) - Forge Domain (Cleric) - Tempest Domain (Cleric) - Oath of Vengeance (Paladin) - Arcane Trickster (Rogue) - Swashbuckler (Rogue) - The Fiend (Warlock) A TIER - Path of the Ancestral Guardian (Barbarian) - College of Eloquence (Bard) - Grave Domain (Cleric) - Light Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Shepherd (Druid) - Eldritch Knight (Fighter) - Way of the Open Hand (Monk) - Way of Shadow (Monk) - Oath of the Ancients (Paladin) - Oath of Conquest (Paladin) - Oathbreaker (Paladin) - Beast Master Conclave (TCE) (Ranger) - Horizon Walker Conclave (Ranger) - Scout (Rogue) - Shadow Magic (Sorcerer) - School of Abjuration (Wizard) - School of Enchantment (Wizard) B+ TIER - Cavalier (Fighter) - Way of the Kensei (Monk) - Oath of Devotion (Paladin) - Oath of Redemption (Paladin) - Draconic Bloodline (Sorcerer) - Wild Magic (Sorcerer) - The Archfey (Warlock) - The Celestial (Warlock) - School of Evocation (Wizard) - School of Illusion (Wizard) - School of Necromancy (Wizard) B TIER - Path of the Storm Herald (Barbarian) - College of Glamour (Bard) - College of Valor (Bard) - Nature Domain (Cleric) - Order Domain (Cleric) - Trickery Domain (Cleric) - War Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Land (Druid) - Circle of Dreams (Druid) - Champion (Fighter) - Samurai (Fighter) - Way of the Long Death (Monk) - Oath of Glory (Paladin) - Hunter Conclave (Ranger) - Assassin (Rogue) - Thief (Rogue) - Mastermind (Rogue) - The Great Old One (Warlock) - School of Conjuration (Wizard) C+ TIER - College of Swords (Bard) - College of Whispers (Bard) - Arcana Domain (Cleric) - Death Domain (Cleric) - Knowledge Domain (Cleric) - Circle of Spores (Druid) - Arcane Archer (Fighter) - Way of the Drunken Master (Monk) - Oath of the Crown (Paladin) - Monster Slayer Conclave (Ranger) - Inquisitive (Rogue) - Storm Sorcery (Sorcerer) - School of Transmutation (Wizard) C TIER - Path of the Berserker (Barbarian) - Path of the Battlerager (Barbarian) - Way of the Sun Soul (Monk) D+ TIER - The Undying (Warlock) D TIER - Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight (Fighter) - Way of the Four Elements (Monk) - Beast Master Conclave (PHB) (Ranger)

[@codenameera3709]

THANK YOU!

[@seanmacdonald5003]

Transmutation wizards can turn party weapons into silver to fight enemies that are weak to them

[@reloadpsi]

But if you turn them entirely into silver they'll break really easily, so make sure it's very, very temporary :P

[@nadeshikorealnofake2237]

That's an extremily specific situation.

[@seanmacdonald5003]

@@nadeshikorealnofake2237 but not an impossibility

[@sushimartyr6311]

The problem I see with this is that it takes at least 10 minutes to perform the transformation in the first place (maybe more depending on total volume of party weapons), and you’re not always going to get that. And it requires concentration on that effect.

[@WexMajor82]

Evoker. The wizard that only has an hammer. But all his problems turn out to be some kind of nails. "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." - V, Order Of The Stick.

[@pablodiegosilvacosta]

What i miss in a 5e necromancer is a spell or ability that creates a big guy. I know that at lvl 14 you can take control of one of those, but it's not the same

[@joelsasmad]

I have issues with how animating the dead functions in 5e in general. Say you get your hands on a bunch of corpses to raise your undead army, you cannot enter any towns with that, you need a constant source of bodies to replenish your weak undead that get destroyed, and you need money to give all your skeletons bows and arrows, not to mention that against most things at higher levels this non magical damage will be useless and you won't be able to afford a literal army of magic bows. Then there are the incovienences of running a small army in a game that absolutely was not designed for it. Previous editions managed to bypass some of these issues by going quality over quantity. When raising undead you would apply a zombie or skeleton template to a creature who would maintain alot of it's stats, but you would be limited in the number of undead you could control at once based on thier strength. This gives alot of room for creativity and instead of an small army you could have a pair of undead minotaur or ride around on an undead Pterodactyl. Having fewer but stronger and more interesting undead minions would hold up the game less and eat up your resources way less. Honestly I don't know why they made this change since animating the dead as it stands now is way less balanced if anything.

[@willieoelkers5568]

@@joelsasmad Keep in mind Animate Dead is a 3rd level spell. It's meant to create quick and dirty fodder for an encounter or dungeon crawl. If you want a hard-hitting undead force, you want the 6th level Create Undead spell, which can create 3 to 9 CR worth of undead per spell slot, depending how high you cast it.

[@normknapp4404]

I really miss the Dread Necromancer from 3.5! With a few corpse crafting feats even your zombies kick ass!!!

[@benjaminholcomb9478]

Listen guys, if you can't see how being 1d10 years younger would help you out, you haven't gotten old yet.

[@dgmisal1979]

Preach it!

[@SkyMcSparkle]

For my first character ever I'm a wizard/necromancer and I love her. we JUST hit level 9 soooo I just took Enervation as my 1st 5th level. I AM so happy :)

[@SkyMcSparkle]

CLOUDKILL and GRAPPLE ahahahahahaha taking NOTES my dudes

[@rafis117]

In my experience DnD is full of big, sudden ambushes that quickly swamp your party. Especially when you're dungeon crawling! I think that's why there's a disconnect between your B for Evokers and the community's strong A. I know I've found Sculpt Spells so frequently decisive that I'd say it takes a subclass that would be a B or a C on paper to at least an A in practice. It may be that all your players are stealthy and tactical, but even in parties without a tank I've always had someone who charges in to melee, which for most wizards would suddenly take away all your best tools.

[@lucasstrong9208]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best complement to your Illusion Wizard is going to be the Eldritch Adept feat, specifically taking the Misty Visions invocation. It lets you cast silent image essentially as a cantrip, which is, by volume, 27 times larger than minor illusion, which you can still use to add sound, and then at 14th level make it real. Having it not cost a spell slot opens it up so much, but it is still a first level spell and thus qualifies to be real.

[@nickturner7350]

Something to note about the Necromancer's capstone: it states an undead creature with Int 8 or higher has advantage on the initial save, but it can only repeat the save if it has Int 12 or higher. Which is still a pretty huge difference, as there arent a ton of undead with Int 12 anyways.

[@mavisbeowulf7036]

The real question is if you managed to stick Feeblemind to a powerful undead like a vampire you could point at it and command it, but then when feeblemind wears off does it get the Int save throws to break free? Can I just spam feeblemind to permanently control said undead?! LOL fun

[@nickturner7350]

@@mavisbeowulf7036 um...that is an interesting question, but also, feeblemind wouldnt wear off unless it either got extremely lucky on the *monthly* save or got outside help to be cured. But yes, interesting question, I would rule that it would get that save if it somehow broke free of feeblemind...provided you could feeblemind it in the first place :P

[@brittanyanderson97]

I just want to say that Kelly is really pulling off that pink beanie. Edit: WOW I didn’t expect this comment to take off like it did

[@mishiara5499]

he is looking extra sexy lately

[@andreacristiano5452]

He makes sure to have some heir out of it to not look like a baldie hahaha

[@salamshalom]

He better NOT pull it off!

[@jf_kein_k8590]

He...doesn't? It stays on for the entire video.^^

[@salamshalom]

@@jf_kein_k8590 color me relieved 😌

[@bobbybowles568]

Illusion Wizard is and will forever be my favorite subclass because of all the wacky creative things you can do with it. A personal favorite of mine is using illusory reality/malleable illusions with major image to make a functional trebuchet. All you need is real boulders and a friendly barbarian to load them.

[@kevensutton]

One thing that is not considered for your review on evoker, the bonus damage for your int modifier is added to each magic missile, since rules as written all the missiles do the same damage and you're only supposed to roll once.

[@Quandry1]

it applies to all enemies hit by things like fireball as well. Which ups the amount of damage it does overall though individually it's a relatively low amount to each target.

[@jescapnut2003]

Monty I can’t tell if your beard is getting bigger, if you’re getting slimmer, a combination of both. Either way looking good my friend 🧔

[@Dadaph]

As an Illusionist Wizard myself, I have to say I love the roleplaying aspect that comes with it, and I feel the ranking is well earned. It's so fun to play.

[@dennv6225]

I'll always hold transmutation close to my heart, but I see how it doesn't exactly measure up

[@M_M_ODonnell]

The school of magic is great; the wizard specialization isn't. I wish it were designed to really encourage some of the out-of-combat, out-of-the-box problem-solving and creative options for wizards.

[@joshholmes1372]

Yeah, I was excited for it, until I saw how limiting it was.

[@kellywelch2515]

@@M_M_ODonnell the second season of critical role has a transmutation wizard... Really well done and does those creative solutions.

[@deadseven3474]

@@kellywelch2515 I think Transmutation specialization is less about OOC problem solving and more about versatility. It's not the problem solver wizard, its the wizard that always has a trick up their sleeve. In that regard, I find it insanely useful, and I think Caleb does a great job of using its tools to the fullest.

[@M_M_ODonnell]

@@kellywelch2515 Back in 2e I had a transmutation wizard who was notorious among my friends for being able to solve any problem with Stone to Flesh. It was only a slight exaggeration.

[@aidancampbell5644]

I must admit, when I think of the transmuter, the first thing that comes to mind is the “turn a weapon into a large fish” scene from Dogma. Turn that warrior’s plate armour into mercury and watch it run off their body. Not sure how viable that is, but that is my imagination of how to play a fun transmuter.

[@juliengosselin4277]

"The book will contain rules on how to harvest monster parts, and crazy items you can make with those parts" Sign me in, just gotta stock up some sharpeners, pet mah Poogie and I'm good to go!

[@gabrielbastos18]

About to do things Witcher style.

[@davidpellecchia4360]

My party has a 3 foot kobold paladin and we turned a dragon skull into a towershield for her. She was a walking armory and now she is a full blown tank. Monster Hunter ftw

[@dicksonmattxenoblade6491]

Alright time to sharpen my hammer I guess.

[@Lexgamer]

Specifically the hilt of the hammer, for it's clearly the part that needs it the most.

[@juliengosselin4277]

Sharpening a Hammer is so dumb, it hurts my brain to think about it... Now, if y'all excuse me, my bagpipe need a meeting with a whetstone asap. :)

[@NoSteppie]

Have enjoyed my experience with Transmutation wizard to make a Simulacrum to gain access to an entire second Transmuter's Stone. An extra full heal and passive support each day is amazing.

[@P-diddykong]

Empowered Evocation is absolutely insane if paired with magic missile

[@devin5201]

Thank our boy Jeremy for that sage advice.

[@duckdictator6531]

Only if your DM runs magic missile properly. I see tons of people doing it wrong.

[@devin5201]

@@duckdictator6531 rolling more dice is just too fun on a tactile level.

[@P-diddykong]

@@duckdictator6531 If it doesn't matter we still let the player roll several dice, as it simply is more fun to roll more dice. But if it makes a difference we always roll only once.

[@jwrp6663]

I think the key reason the community likes the necromancer less than you do is that the power of this class comes from preparation and a DM/game world open to a wizard walking around with a bunch of corpses. You can't just cast a spell in the middle of combat and generate an undead horde, while you can just uncork a fireball and wreck the combat.

[@adivrsity]

You have to have a sly way of hiding your undead, but not forget about them. Or be in a special campaign. It really depends. Running a Necro in Strahd myself atm. My skeletons have cloth wrapped around them like lepers, and when I really need them to hide, I have them dig holes in the ground and fill themselves back into the hole.

[@joelsasmad]

I have issues with how animating the dead functions in 5e in general. Say you get your hands on a bunch of corpses to raise your undead army, you cannot enter any towns with that, you need a constant source of bodies to replenish your weak undead that get destroyed, and you need money to give all your skeletons bows and arrows, not to mention that against most things at higher levels this non magical damage will be useless and you won't be able to afford a literal army of magic bows. Then there are the incovienences of running a small army in a game that absolutely was not designed for it. It is a hassle on every level. Previous editions managed to bypass some of these issues by going quality over quantity. When raising undead you would apply a zombie or skeleton template to a creature who would maintain alot of it's stats, but you would be limited in the number of undead you had based on how strong the creatures under your control were. Thus instead of an undead army you could have a pair of undead minotaur or ride around on an undead Pterodactyl. This was not only way cooler and gave some chances to be really creative, but you would hold up the game less and have to use less resources. Honestly I don't know why they made this change since animating the dead as it stands now is way less balanced if anything with the on paper damage numbers.

[@jwrp6663]

@@joelsasmad what is worse is that there are spells at level 3 that are better. Conjure Animals is just a strictly dominant spell.

[@mathiasikit]

These community polls always crack me up and really make me realise how my table is great.

[@realafan888]

Counterpoint: Toll the Dead on the Evocation Wizard. Having a 2d12 Necrotic Damage with Half Damage Insured for free on a Wizard is insane.

[@jamesbolt1003]

Counter point: agonizing blast eldritch blast granting +1-5 to each 1d10. Half damage on cantrips is fine, and probably should be benefited by int mod.

[@keaton1055]

@@jamesbolt1003 Eldritch blast isn't a counterpoint when this is about wizards, mate.

[@jamesbolt1003]

@@keaton1055 I'm using it as an example as to why the evoker could be buffed. ;) If the blaster of all wizards can't go toe to toe with some random warlock then we have a problem.

[@rclammo]

If you are in a situation where you are dependent on an extra 1d12 damage as an action, then you have bigger problems and should examine your RP choices which led you there lol.

[@nathansmith9597]

2d12 with half damage on save will come out to an average of between 10 and 12 points of damage, depending on how frequently your enemies are saving. (And do note that the more frequently your enemies fail, the smaller the difference between Evoker and any other Wizard.) That's not "insane." It's not even good.

[@joebala]

You guys are having fun with the transitions and I appreciate that.

[@Zibit21]

When a man wears a hat like this, you know he fears nothing...

[@ThrawnIsAlive]

I wish I had that kind of confidence

[@spanishinquisition7623]

Why wouldn’t he be confident, it looks great on him

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@ThrawnIsAlive The Hero of Canton!

[@RobinDaBold]

@@MonkeyJedi99 Is that a reference to a football town in Ohio? I'm from Canton, I dont get it

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@RobinDaBold No. A reference to the Hero Of Canton, a man they call Jayne (Cobb).

[@Calebgoblin]

I don't even like wizards and yet here I am drinking it in, ready to have my mind changed

[@peedee5324]

I have to admit, I giggled a little that your name is Caleb and you don't like wizards.

[@jonathanlautre489]

@@peedee5324 Came looking for this comment XD

[@punkassbamboo]

how's it feel to be tragically wrong

[@walcorn.]

"oh no we cant let restore youth age someone down, high level wizards will just make themselves immortal" And then at the very next level the same wizard makes a demiplane filled with clones.

[@civilbeard]

Necromancer fits the flavor of the archetype so very well. One of the best flavor/mechanics pairings of any subclass in 5e.

[@joelsasmad]

I have issues with how animating the dead functions in 5e in general. Say you get your hands on a bunch of corpses to raise your undead army, you cannot enter any towns with that, you need a constant source of bodies to replenish your weak undead that get destroyed, and you need money to give all your skeletons bows and arrows, not to mention that against most things at higher levels this non magical damage will be useless and you won't be able to afford a literal army of magic bows. Then there are the incovienences of running a small army in a game that absolutely was not designed for it. Previous editions managed to bypass some of these issues by going quality over quantity. When raising undead you would apply a zombie or skeleton template to a creature who would maintain alot of it's stats, but you would be limited in the number of undead you could control at once based on thier strength. This gives alot of room for creativity and instead of an small army you could have a pair of undead minotaur or ride around on an undead Pterodactyl. Having fewer but stronger and more interesting undead minions would hold up the game less and eat up your resources way less. Honestly I don't know why they made this change since animating the dead as it stands now is way less balanced if anything. And the worst part is that there is no alternative class features here, so if you want to avoid the hassle on every level that is animating a skeletal army, then you just might as well not have these class features.

[@Explore_Adventure_Build]

Thanks for doing this video! Was waiting! 😁

[@JaveMcManus]

One of my favorite things is turning bars of a prison cage into sand or vines. Very helpful.

[@AzureIV]

Level 14's Illusory Reality allows you to create Adamantine bunkers for your party to fight from. Though until then, illusion magic isn't the greatest.

[@thedude0000]

Illusion spells are only as good as your imagination......and the DM

[@jypsridic]

it lets you create air tight adamantine masks for your opponents too. Nevermind, 5e has easier suffocation rules than 3.5

[@JuckiCZ]

It lets you cast infinite floating stairs after lvl 18 (when Silent Image becomes cantrip), adamantine cages around enemies, strong shackles around their legs, ... The best thing is, that when you make ir real, it stays real for 1 minute - no need to concentrate on it, no chance to end it sooner.

[@Wolfman-jo3mb]

@@JuckiCZ For a feat, you could get silent image as a cantrip way earlier

[@JuckiCZ]

@@Wolfman-jo3mb How can you have Silent Image as a cantrip (so unlimited casts a day) earlier?

[@Kurotekken]

Monty went through an animation loop while Kelly introduced the Necromancer.

[@mwlordmason]

Half the reason why I was looking forward to this episode was to see Kelly’s explanation for how good the necromancer really is. Anyone who’s played a Diablo 2 Necromancer will know why it’s so awesome. Diablo 2 Necromancer players have to try this subclass at least once. Necros all the way.

[@joelsasmad]

This isn't Diablo and I have issues with how animating the dead functions in 5e. It is basically up to the DM if you get your hands on a bunch of corpses to raise your undead army and you need a constant source of more to replenish your weak undead that get destroyed, and you need money to give all your skeletons bows and arrows, not to mention that against most things at higher levels this non magical damage will be useless and you won't be able to afford a literal army of magic bows. Then there are the incovienences of running a small army in a game that absolutely was not designed for it. Previous editions managed to bypass some of these issues by going quality over quantity. When raising undead you would apply a zombie or skeleton template to a creature who would maintain alot of it's stats, but you would be limited in the number of undead you could control at once based on thier strength. This gives alot of room for creativity and instead of an small army you could have a pair of undead minotaur or ride around on an undead Pterodactyl. Having fewer but stronger and more interesting undead minions would hold up the game less and eat up your resources way less. Honestly I don't know why they made this change since animating the dead as it stands now is way less balanced if anything. And the worst part is that there is no alternative class features here, so if you want to avoid the hassle on every level that is animating a skeletal army, then you just might as well not have these class features.

[@joshuaturnquist5538]

Fun idea for a non-evil Necromancer; Someone on a quest to revive someone close to them with True Resurrection. They need to get to a high level, find a scroll or book to learn the spell, and the rare material components. Less evil person seeking lichdom, more tragic figure doing evil to save another.

[@joelsasmad]

The question is why they don't just go cleric? Or try to find and enlist the aid of a strong Cleric?

[@obi-wankommo-obi6880]

When they cover war magic: "War!" "Huh, Yeah." "What is it good for?"

[@nickrichards6287]

As a wargamer myself necromancer wizard sounds really cool, I might have to check it out.

[@professorgrimm4602]

Necromancer is my favourite wizard subclass. Idk why the community ranked it so bad. I'd personally give it an S. There's nothing cooler than leaning back and just commanding your 30+ zombies to take down the bad guy.

[@christianjacobs4901]

@@professorgrimm4602 ya other than the fact they get decimated easily, don't scale whatsoever, it takes you literally weeks to get 30 zombies and hope they don't die. Once you hit level 8 on up they won't be able to even grapple most things. Like its a D subclass dude lol if they gained more power to hit then they would be really good

[@Lt_taco]

@@christianjacobs4901 you can use more than just zombies. Plus, getting five skeletons isn't that difficult and having them can ruin action economy. The 14th level ability is super strong and even if you aren't in a campaign with a lot of undead, you are a wizard and can learn create undead. They require a little more strategy to play effectively, but when played correctly they can be broken.

[@christianjacobs4901]

@@Lt_taco I highly doubt it'll be "broken" barely anything gets up to level 14 first off. Second off skeletons at higher levels won't hit shit. Its a +4 to hit and they have non magical weapons. So I can 100% say necro isn't broken whatsoever.

[@Lt_taco]

@@christianjacobs4901 you can just give them magical weapons if that is some much of an issue, which it won't be until higher level, and the longer you play the more skeletons you can have, meaning even if the majority of them miss, you are still going to get extra hits in and will probably get a crit, and having 5 to 10 skeletons all shooting doing 1d6+5, more if you are above level 9, is good damage. As far as being broken, as with any wizard, given an in game week they can become broken. Just take some down time, and rob a graveyard. If you can't make your wizard broken that's on you, not the subclass

[@alpharius2777]

I love your guides, you both have given me such great advice that I use every time I play. Thank you so much for the awesome memories.

[@bubbles9829]

I may have judge Transmutation little higher because the way Liam play Caleb in Critical Role. In play, it actually look powerful. I could see why it’s a C after you guys actually explain it. I love the idea of Transmutation.

[@stirlinggerbic-forsyth3345]

Thats the problem with the Transmutation wizard though. Liam plays his character very well, but nothing that he does couldn't be done by any other wizard just as well. And the things that are specific to his school really don't have a big impact.

[@bubbles9829]

@@stirlinggerbic-forsyth3345 you are probably right, if I actually think about it. I don’t exactly have a great memory and oddly really good at it. It’s a weird power that I have.

[@JuckiCZ]

You forgot one thing about Illusory reality - it stays real for 1 minute - no chance to end it sooner, but also no need to keep concentration on that spell. And after lvl 18, when Silent image becomes "cantrip", you can rule the world with it - infinite stairs, adamantine cages, walls, shackles,...

[@ajgunter8932]

They seriously underestimated the value of Spell Sculpting. I used it as punishment for whoever managed to get in a melee attack to my wizard. Also I fireballed myself and wiped a bandit crew.

[@ConfucioNano]

While I do agree with you about them underestimating the power of spell sculpting as far as I know you cannot exclude yourself from your spells, the feature only works on other creatures. Said so this feature is my opinion what makes the evoker the best blaster, he may not be doing the most damage in one spell, but having the ability to cast AOE damage spells over and over without worrying about killing your frontliners makes you damage sums up on the opponents over and over round after round, making the evoker by far the best spellcaster a group can have in a fight situation.

[@ajgunter8932]

@@ConfucioNano holy sh* you're right. My old DM didn't know that. Lol Totally agree on the repeated blaasting while keeping friends safe. Crowds aren't a problem with the Evocation wizard.

[@thomasfranks4536]

I'm studying the subclasses of the Wizard at the moment as I am rolling a Wiz as my next character. These videos are very helpful in helping me decide, so firstly, thank you. Secondly, one small pointer. I am trying to make notes on what you say but its next to impossible due to how fast you guys speak and explain things, especially Monty! I slowed it down to 0.75 and you still sound normal but even that is fast, lol! Thanks again

[@TheOnlyRealIRONicMAN]

The interaction and implication of having Malleable Illusion on a Wizard with Mirage Arcane alone makes a strong argument for the Illusion Wizard to be S tier, provided one can actually reach those levels of play, that is.

[@afasdfasafd314]

necromancy is my favorite sub class for the wizard, most than anything because its really creative, really powerfull, eliminates the downback of relying only on spellslots and its always gives you the power over the economy action i recomend that you or one of your party members with a high CAR takes the inspirational speech feat to add some really nice temporary hit points to the undead allies

[@hunterd3142]

How do you get around the roleplaying restrictions of playing a necromancer in a party that isn’t explicitly evil? Honestly any party that doesn’t kill necromancer a on sight is a terribly roleplayed party.

[@QeepingItReal]

@@hunterd3142 what if it's a dystopia? what if in the campaign there is a horde of hobgoblins that are just unstoppable? is there no context where one could give way? i agree with you more than i disagree tho. Indeed in most campaigns it SHOULD be extremely challenging to play a necromancer who raises dead. The logistical challenges should be there and the whole "yeah uh most civilized people are not cool with this at all" should also be there. That being said, I don't think it's wrong to play evil. I'd almost rather play with a group that were evil and smart than the classic group that on paper is good aligned, but in action are selfish, cruel, savage, unjust, dishonest etc.

[@joelsasmad]

I have issues with how animating the dead functions in 5e in general. Say you get your hands on a bunch of corpses to raise your undead army(which is entirely up to your DM), you cannot enter any towns with that, you need a constant source of new bodies to replenish your weak undead that get destroyed, and you need money to give all your skeletons bows and arrows, not to mention that against most things at higher levels this non magical damage will be useless and you won't be able to afford a literal army of magic bows. Then there are the incovienences of running a small army in a game that absolutely was not designed for it. Previous editions managed to bypass some of these issues by going quality over quantity. When raising undead you would apply a zombie or skeleton template to a creature who would maintain alot of it's stats, but you would be limited in the number of undead you could control at once based on thier strength. This gives alot of room for creativity and instead of an small army you could have a pair of undead minotaur or ride around on an undead Pterodactyl. Having fewer but stronger and more interesting undead minions would hold up the game less and eat up your resources way less. Honestly I don't know why they made this change since animating the dead as it stands now is way less balanced if anything. And the worst part is that there is no alternative class features here, so if you want to avoid the hassle on every level that is animating a skeletal army, then you just might as well not have these class features.

[@Samueras]

There is one important think they forgot about empowered evocation. And that is that that u add it to add a single roll means that all spells that has one roll to dmg multiple targets simultaneously do those 5 extra dmg to each target. So hit 5 ppl with a fireball. And and you do 5 extra dmg. Also one spell stands out here. And that is magic missle. You cast multiple middles that strike simultaneously. That means you roll one d4 +1once and that is the damage for all of them. With empowered evocation that means each missle does 1d4 +6 dmg instead. So that is up to 30dmg with a lvl one spell. That is extreme. What I'm unsure about is, does that goes for cantrip also. Could that would make cantrips so much stronger and acid slash really really good.

[@tinkerer3399]

It wouldn't work on Acid Splash because Acid Splash is a conjugation spell, not an evocation spell.

[@Samueras]

@@tinkerer3399 good point

[@MitchT97]

Running a necromancer through my first campaign rn and I’m loving it. I ended up studying and creating an animate dead equivalent spell only for beast creatures. Now I have 8 skeleton archers with the features I have deal a base of 8d6+40 damage on a regular attack and two dire wolves (it’s animate dead but creature size is treated like animate objects where you get less creatures the bigger you choose). Our dm has pretty much balanced it only by giving resistance to most NPCs since everyone else but me has magic weapons. That and we’re playing Curse of Strahd so it’s been interesting for my character in particular even though he’s actually not really evil. Overall my favorite subclass by far!

[@patrickhobing8785]

For evocation Wizard, there IS an aoe cantrip that can be used with both Potent Cantrip and Empowered Evocation AND (ignoring errrata that doesn't let you overchannel cantrips without taking damage) overchannel. That spell is Thunderclap. Only 5 ft aoe centered on Caster, but can be a reasonable use for an evocation Wizard

[@antongrigoryev6381]

Also Sword Burst, the same range, and Acid Splash, 60ft but only 2 targets.

[@patrickhobing8785]

@@antongrigoryev6381 both of those spells are conjuration spells

[@DoomDutch]

9:03 Word of Radiance: "Am I a joke to you!?"

[@exomancer3632]

Thunderclap and Sword Burst would like to have a word as well.

[@ThrawnIsAlive]

*cries in acid splash*

[@exomancer3632]

@@ThrawnIsAlive Acid Splash isn't technically an aoe. It just targets two adjacent creatures.

[@exomancer3632]

Also, all three of these spells require you to be in melee range. Which isn't a good idea for a wizard.

[@PatentlyWillton]

Yes, particularly for wizards.

[@hangryisangry427]

High level Evoker who has Clone as an 8th level spell. Clones himself as early as possible, and then doesn't have to worry about overcharge.

[@Hazel-xl8in]

do the same thing with simulacrum to overchannel multiple times in combat

[@bodricthered]

Drops your items and books and leaves your party in the dark where you are and costs mucho denaro

[@ink9534]

thanks, i'm doing a Ilusion wizard on my next campaign and this helped me a lot

[@mrfreestyle49]

What about the old magic missile on an Evocation Wizard so you can have a ton of missiles all doing 1d4 + INT mod? Because for magic missile you only roll once for the damage and then all the missiles do the same damage.

[@AzureIV]

You roll the damage for each individual missile in 5e.

[@rgractor]

@@AzureIV I’m pretty sure Jeremy Crawford confirmed you only roll one die and that’s the damage done by every dart.

[@pointynoodle]

I think it only counts for one target?

[@poneal666]

@@rgractor Jeremy Crawford's tweets aren't RAW. This makes magic missile a worthwhile spell to burn a higher level slot on for impressive damage. Of course, a 1st level shield spell still stops ALL of it...

[@rgractor]

@@poneal666 it’s definitely a risk if they’ve got shield, but I think it makes sense to only roll the damage once. They all hit simultaneously and RAW says spells or attacks which hit multiple targets simultaneously have the damage rolled once and applied to all targets. Magic Missile is a pretty unique spell in the way it works, but it makes sense that if you’re casting all the darts at once, and they’re all equally accurate since they never miss, that the damage is determined by how much magical force you instill into the darts. So it makes sense that you’d instill each dart with the same amount of force...so 1 roll for all darts. But it’s definitely up for interpretation, just thought Crawford’s ruling gave room to make the call that you can roll once. Why not do that since it makes Magic Missile a much more useful, albeit potentially easily nullified, spell, especially at higher levels.

[@duckdictator6531]

Huzzah, it is finally here!

[@Spiceodog]

Dominate undead ability is a lot less niche when you know feeblemind!

[@joelsasmad]

True. It's just that you then have to hope the dm throws you a bone(literally!) and sends some good undead your way. Or play an undead heavy game like Ravenloft.

[@Sarinadragon]

Hey guys, enjoying the subclass rating videos ^_^ looking forward to the next ones and the start on Tasha's stuff. Just want to add my 2 cents to Necromancer personally, I am someone who has wanted to play a proper necromancer in some RPG for years now and it's so difficult to do so. In particular comparing Pathfinder to 5th Edition D&D. Pathfinder has it's own spells, classes and systems but I mainly want to discuss how disappointed I am in the 5th Edition Necromancer and I will try to keep this brief. So.. you guys mainly talked about the Animate Dead spell and the uses of skeletons and zombies in your party as well as the players ability to manage them. Less so discussing the actual abilities that Necromancer gives you as the wizard to use. Grim Harvest: This ability is awful, you are relying on getting kills with damage spells and even then it restores your actual HP meaning if you are taking damage on your wizard then you are likely putting yourself into harms way more than you should, this would be much better if it was temporary HP or was an ability you could use as an action to draw in negative energy to your body to bolster it or something. Undead Thralls: This is the main draw of the Necromancer in my opinion and even then it is not that powerful and it boils down to how 5E in general handles summoning undead. You can summon basic skeletons and zombies and they have a bit more health and do more damage, which the latter adds up when you have many of them out at once. I think the reason this is ranked low is because the basic undead you can summon is the only undead you will ever GET to summon, and any ANY wizard can take Animate Dead. The necromancer is only giving you an easier time having more undead and they have some better stats, the tactics used with archery skeletons and grappling zombies can be done by any wizard using Animate Dead with better subclass abilities. Sending skeletons in with melee weapons is not a good idea because they get defeated easily alongside the zombies who are more tanky. That's why the bow strategy exists in the first place, it would be nice if you could have less of "quantity" and more of "quality" with your undead and it's your choice over being pidgeon holed by the mechanics of the game in that one spell. It's like the necomancer class in its entirety was designed around the Animate Dead spell. I would like to see more spells added to the game that let you summon stronger or more varied undead, and the necromancer getting abilities to add abilities to or enhance the undead you have in speed, magical attacks, more health or anything else to really aid with this. Inured to Undeath: Or whatever it is, this is a nice flavorful ability but I do wish they got a bit more here like you can ignore resistance or immunity to necrotic damage vs undead or some form of debilitating effect you could use when you're not facing undead. Command Undead: This ability is neat, but I really do not like it. As a level 14 ability this is about as useful as the "Create Thrall" power the Old One Warlock gets, it's not very good and incredibly situational. I would add something like you can now create "advanced" skeletons and zombies to differentiate them from other wizards or some other special summon. Alternatively having the power to give all your undead resistance to all damage and the bonuses from Undead Thralls double or something. At the end of the day I would say this subclass is a B.. I want to rank it lower because I don't feel it really delivers on the fantasy of being a necromancer. Your animate dead is better and that's it, in other games they get curses, add on effects to spells, can create many or big stronger undead and can do lich things or weave negative energy in creative ways. I would like to see that from this subclass if it ever gets a redesign. Ending Note: If anyone has an interest in Necromancy I would recommend looking into the third party book Van Helsing's Guide to the Unquiet Dead for a lot of nice options for player characters and dungeon masters. Of course it is a third party book so it will not be allowed in AL and ask your DM before you use it but it is a good read.

[@carsonrush3352]

Okay, I never realized how awesome the necromancer's level 2 ability is when you use it with a blasting spell like fireball. For every minion killed by fireball, you regain 6 HP. A crowd of kobolds is a first aid kit to this guy.

[@Blondi115935]

Unfortunately it only works once per turn, and it's 2 or 3 times the spell's level. Not the number of enemies killed. In my opinion, necromancy wizard is the single most overrated subclass in this Dungeon Dudes series. Maybe next to Wild Magic Sorcerer.

[@carsonrush3352]

@@Blondi115935, I didn't catch that. Well, that's sad.

[@joelsasmad]

@@Blondi115935 I have issues with how animating the dead functions in 5e in general. Say you get your hands on a bunch of corpses to raise your undead army, you cannot enter any towns with that, you need a constant source of bodies to replenish your weak undead that get destroyed, and you need money to give all your skeletons bows and arrows, not to mention that against most things at higher levels this non magical damage will be useless and you won't be able to afford a literal army of magic bows. Then there are the incovienences of running a small army in a game that absolutely was not designed for it. Previous editions managed to bypass some of these issues by going quality over quantity. When raising undead you would apply a zombie or skeleton template to a creature who would maintain alot of it's stats, but you would be limited in the number of undead you could control at once based on thier strength. This gives alot of room for creativity and instead of an small army you could have a pair of undead minotaur or ride around on an undead Pterodactyl. Having fewer but stronger and more interesting undead minions would hold up the game less and eat up your resources way less. Honestly I don't know why they made this change since animating the dead as it stands now is way less balanced if anything. And the worst part is that there is no alternative class features here, so if you want to avoid the hassle on every level that is animating a skeletal army, then you just might as well not have these class features.

[@Minox_]

Played an illusion wizard in my last campaign, the most fun I've had in combat so far, just thinking of ways to use them. I might not deal the most damage, but my party also took way less damage because of crowd control.

[@RocKaFella57]

What kind of crowd control?

[@Minox_]

@@RocKaFella57 Mainly things like Phantasmal force, Silent Image and Color Spray or even the odd minor illusion. Some of these rely on how your DM allows you to use them - and how smart the enemies are. If you create a brick wall with silent image, another wizard might recognize it as an illusion and take his chances shooting through it, (it will still block line of sight though) and enemies like animals might naturally avoid the obstacle they suddenly perceive. Forcing the enemy to move with phantasmal by placing hazards around them, forcing them to choose between moving or getting the psychic damage from the imaginary hazard. It's a thin line as to what actually works with illusions and what doesn't, but as long as you and your dm are clear on the capabilities of the spells it can be very fun and rewarding!

[@RocKaFella57]

@@Minox_ Awesome! I feel like illusion spells get a bad rap just because players rarely discuss them with the DM PRIOR to a session. And they have them do things that they shouldn't be able to do. Like no minor illusion cannot create a false image of your self running lol. There's a spell for that. I do love the creativity in this If used correctly

[@Minox_]

@@RocKaFella57 Indeed! I had a talk with my DM before picking illusion, putting several scenarios in front of him and explaining how I'd approach them and seeing how he'd rule them to see if we were on the same page. The spells all have limitations and that actually makes it more fun too, because then you get more creative. On the flip side, if your DM refuses to interact with your solutions (when not warranted) it would be a bad choice of subclass sadly. For example with phantasmal force: the enemy can use his action to inspect your illusion to make another saving throw, but would someone really inspect a wall of fire (mind you, one he actually feels heat coming from and can be hurt by) the first chance they get? No, they'd probably just try to maneuver around it, and how this plays out is up to your DM and can really screw with the effectiveness. It's a balancing act!

[@jameshicks1114]

For anyone who rated the Necromancer as a D, may I refer you to the channel: D&D Optimised. The Necromancer is utterly broken in how OP it is. Combined with a Oathbreaker Paladin and these two characters could probably take down a tarrasque on thier own.

[@Wolfman-jo3mb]

Their campaigns probably have enemies that have AOE, necromancer is pretty much as OP as the DM lets them

[@BlackShadow1991]

Good stuff as always, Dudes :D

[@streetroach727]

The transmutation subclass is easily my favorite, not in terms of power or efficiency, I just really like the idea of focusing on transmutation. I’m actually playing a transmutation wizard right now, and he’s looking for either the philosophers stone itself or a way to make it. I really enjoy the feel of being an alchemist type of wizard and essentially making a weaker philosophers stone as an ability. I love the flavor

[@snazzyfeathers]

Will we see a part 3 for the other subclasses like War Magic, Bladesinger, Chonurgy/Graviturgy, and Order of Scribes?

[@williamcrowe5721]

The next episode is gonna have those ones except for Scribes. I believe they're going over the Tasha's ones in a separate video

[@PurpleCyanideTube]

@@williamcrowe5721 if we are going with that logic then Bladesinger would not be next either

[@pirounded8192]

@@PurpleCyanideTube well, not necessarily. While the bladesinger appears in Tasha's, it was actually introduced much earlier on in the sword coast adventurer's guide.

[@williamcrowe5721]

@@pirounded8192 Yep! It's been around long enough that I'd say it's very likely we'll see it soon :)

[@devin5201]

9:08 The cantrip you're looking for is Acid Splash, not technically an aoe but it can damage multiple baddies and Potent Cantrip can really help make that damage stick. As for empowered evocation, Magic Missile, thanks to that one piece of sage advice Magic Missile on an Evoker is super strong cuz the damage becomes 1d4 +1 +Int mod multiplied by the number of missiles.

[@DarrylCross]

RAW for Empowered Evocation: Beginning at 10th level, you can add your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1) to the damage roll of any wizard evocation spell that you cast. The damage bonus applies to one damage roll of a spell, not multiple rolls. As the ability specifically states "one damage roll of a spell, not multiple rolls," it wouldn't apply to each missile, because they all originate from one spell; only one missile would gain the benefit. Same for anything that would deal splash damage in a second round (only the initial round would gain that damage bonus, as the secondary roll is part of the same spell. Though arguably you could potentially save the damage bonus for the second round and not the initial, why you'd want to is beyond me.) It would be most effective on AoE spells, because then the bonus applies to all targets in the area. If you had a DM that would allow that - then it could be awesome and extend the life of Magic Missile (which it did have a better effective life in previous editions). But a DM could just as easily shut that down with the way they interpret that.

[@devin5201]

@@DarrylCross Yep and MM unlike the similar yet different Scorching Ray doesn't have you rolling damage separately for each projectile, at least not according to one of the most controversial Sage Advices out there, brb I'ma link it in a sec.

[@devin5201]

www.sageadvice.eu/2016/10/17/magic-missile-do-you-roll-the-same-d4-for-all-darts/ Here it is, by raw you are doing only one damage roll to which everything that may apply is added(empowered evocation, hexblade's curse, enhancements from special wands, you name it) and every missile deals that much damage, it completely flips the "low risk low reward" nature of MM and it's delicious.

[@y2a1979]

@@DarrylCross The official ruling on Magic Missile from the designers is that you roll damage once, and it applies to every missile from that casting of the spell, therefore every missile would be empowered, because there was only one damage roll made.

[@DarrylCross]

@@devin5201 Oh okay. I hadn't seen that interpretation before. Thanks for the share. From the MM listing in the book, all it says was that A missile does 1d4+1, and that there are 3 of them (until upcast). In previous editions it always seemed to be that each one got its own d4, and had no reason to question that in 5th til now.

[@tieshaunntanner6846]

Great video, Dudes. I really look forward to the next one, and hope it comes soon... I'm very curious about your opinion on the Order of Scribes.

[@tannermason4315]

You guys are great. Thanks for the dope content.

[@y2a1979]

For the de-aging Transmutation ability, my immediate thought is for someone who has been artificially aged at some point by a ghost or similar effect, and is a human or other short-lived race. This lets them get pulled back from the "aged to death" danger. It's limited, sure, but there's at least one reason to have it there. It's also very thematic with what many alchemist/transmuter type characters are often trying to do in various fantasy books, movies, etc.

[@AndrewWCarson]

My problem with that ability is that it doesn't actually reduce age RAW. It just makes the creature look younger. What's the point of creating a philosopher's stone that doesn't actually keep you alive?

[@spin_forbidden9566]

As I approach 50...being 30 again and knowing what I know now? That would be pretty nice. Outside of combat, this is an amazing way to get in with the local rulers. It's the fantasy ideal to make a bargain with the evil wizard to look young again - in the stories it never sticks. Here it can.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Animate Dead is the easy mode for getting your dead party member(s) to the temple for resurrection. So use your friends wisely!

[@Phox146]

Technically you can't do that, if you turn the PC into a zombie you'll only be raising a zombie. It's obviously the GMs call though.

[@michaelbennyhoff9099]

Love this dude's always gives you good info

[@NoSteppie]

My experience with a Neceomancer was through Adventure League where they used Feeblemind to drop the undead intelligence to 1, then bound it to its will. The creature in question was Death Tyrant.

[@Gav_EXE]

_Stares at Empowered Evocation._ _Stares at Magic Missile._ Hmm... Yeah, totally nothing to get excited over. Especially with Spell Mastery.

[@overlordb1989]

1D4+1+5x3 This does put a smile on my face.

[@AguionStryke]

Only applies to one of the attack rolls, unfortunately.

[@Gav_EXE]

@@AguionStryke Nope. When you roll for the damage of Magic Missile, you roll one damage roll for all needles fired by the spell, meaning that each needle gains the benefit of Empowered Evocation's bonus. This is an official ruling and part of the reason why Magic Missile is considered integral to an Evocation Wizard's spell list, just like how Eldritch Blast is for a Warlock.

[@jonathanlautre489]

Couple things I wanna add. I think the transmuter later game ability to change matter or items from one form to another needs a little more credit for creative player use. Yeah turning a chair into...another chair is an underwhelming prospect but when you consider that a cask of wine can fairly quickly turn into a cask of flammable oil or a cask of undead turning holy water suddenly the idea of sitting down and carefully planning out and considering how to create awesome contingency plans for stuff is awesome. On the Necromancy front, I think the community ranking being so low might have something to do with how taboo necromancy can be in most game worlds. I know you avoid considering too many RP choices in these reviews focusing on the mechanics but I think a lot of players will immediately remember feeling stifled as a necromancer in a game only to constantly be hassled for automatically being labeled evil or at least detestable for what they do in and out of combat.

[@benwaugh292]

Transmuter is the subclass the King forces on his wizards to have them give stones to his champions. I could see running into an enemy who has gotten all the benefits of the stones as he has been loaded up by his boss to come after the party.

[@JanellePhalen]

I'm excited to play Drakkenheim. I loved the series.

[@Stringbean670]

Hopefully there is a part 3, really wanna hear them talk about chronurgy and graviturgy.

[@Apextle]

That’s what I want to hear about as well. I think Chronurgy is nuts

[@davidpellecchia4360]

@@Apextle i believe they will if it’s official 5e

[@gabrielfeldinger6533]

They've never done it, but part of me is hoping they'll combine the rest of the wizard subclasses (Chron/graviturgy + war magic) with the Artificer list since Artificer only has 4 subclasses, so wizard part 3 and Artificer would be two short videos

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

@@yueffstueff6542 and the (altered) bladesinger

[@fortunatus1]

@@yueffstueff6542 They're not going to do Scribe because they haven't added any Tasha's subclasses to any of the videos. They're not going to start with Wizard.

[@Apfeljunge666]

there are multiple AoE cantrips. also Toll the Dead exists for damage

[@FireTalon24]

Played a cleric with Toll the Dead. Such a good cantrip.

[@aaronreadstohimself3147]

Really digging the Wizard subclass rankings, guys. Awesome

[@bridog9313]

Congratulations on the Kickstarter you guys!!

[@32Loveless50]

i play a Necromancer and i can say that the new Summon undead from Tashas i pretty nice :) i'm a Doctor ingame and so far have not been able to have my Zombies with me, but need to get around that somehow. but planning a basement to have them in, in the house/wizardtower i'm building :D

[@mavisbeowulf7036]

Not at you, just in general, but doesn’t ANYONE ask “Where’s the town graveyard?” Graverobbing is a thing for a reason lol

[@joelsasmad]

At later levels you could carry your zombies in a bag of holding. At lower levels you could literally have them bury themselves and rise from the earth to come to your aid when you need them.