The Problem with Dragon Combat Encounters...

In this video we will use bio-mimicry to combine various real-world animals and fabricate a terrifying combat strategy for your D&D dragons.
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[@tomb1686]

I feel like this should come with a disclaimer. An encounter like this should Always be proceeded by significant foreshadowing, clues, and even straight up warnings. Unless the party has willingly been traveling blindly, and stupidly, they should be aware that a dragon of this power is in the area, and they need to be ready for life-or-death combats like this.

[@colinwalker6804]

100% Agree. My party when I was sick decided to ignore the DM’s warnings and explore an area prepared for when we would be 2 levels higher (level 6-7 area). I (having DM’d a dragon fight previously but at a much higher level), mentioned my worries about specifically this tactic, and my DM went “that’s a great idea I’ll probably use that.” Just today I needed to explain to him how deadly and unfun this tactic can be in 2 rounds when the most tanky players have only 55HP maximum. Even a Young Dragon using this tactic will TPK the party since my DM has ruled that if you are at 0HP and any damage that remains over your Max HP amount instantly kills you (no saves), this will 100% kill everyone but the barbarian on the second round after being grappled just from the average fall damage, and kill most the casters and ranged combatants in 1 round. I even have a fly speed (I’m a fairy bard) and I know even if I incapacitate a dragon using this tactic, I will probably perma-kill an allied character. This tactic can VERY quickly turn into an unfun experience for players, especially without them being prepared, and become a hypnotic pattern situation where everyone knows the fight is effectively over already but has to slowly watch their PC’s die one by one. Use this tactic to challenge your players who have fought dragons before without too much difficulty or are at least level 8 (unless you have a larger than average group), and make sure the party is aware of what they are getting into. Being surprised by a dragon and then having this sprung on them will just kill a lot of fun at the table.

[@StarKnightZ]

I think it might actually be a matter of tone. You could set it at a session zero. IE intelligent monsters will think strategically and use every advantage they have to win. You can always sprinkle some foreshadowing in for the characters too, to tell characters what to expect. But if you set the tone you'd find yourself having to do far less work on foreshadowing.

[@StarKnightZ]

@@colinwalker6804 If I accidently found myself in this situation I'd have the dragon maybe take a hostage and coerce the characters into an evil quest with one of his agents. (In a meta discussion you might have the players choose who is taken hostage and they get to have fun playing an evil NPC for a session.) What do you think?

[@colinwalker6804]

@@StarKnightZ As a DM myself, it sounds fun provided whoever is getting captured won’t be able to play for 2-4 meetings. However, if as a player this situation comes up, you’d want anyone but a PC to have this happen cause a dragons lair is super deadly and the last place you wanna be. Especially if you have one YOLO PC who will intentionally start an unwindable fight thinking the DM won’t actually kill them with an encounter that seriously put levels them. Also word to the wise, if bargaining with players, using charm magic on the negotiator is a last resort as you will just spark the fight again or potentially annoy the players.

[@DakonBlackblade2]

Don't worry, it's D&D 5. None of this would actually work cause the PCs will be so broken they will negate the dragon movement with their polearm mastery warriors, insta succeed their grapple escape attempts with freedom of movement, they will likely all fly too, one of them will probably polymorph into a Tyranosaur etc.

[@patricksanders7988]

I love your description of the dragon's tactics. The dragon's intelligence is rarely played up to its potential. I could even see a dragon picking off party members one at a time, months apart. Like flies to wanton boys. That said, much of your description seemed quite foreign to me. I come from a time of yore when an Ancient Red Dragon had a Negative 3 Armor Class, 11 hit dice, 88 hp and was terrifying. Jesus Saves, everyone else takes half damage. Grognard's Delight. It's okay, Gary sent me.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

HAHAHAH LOVE IT. man, it's been a long time since I learned to play back in the day and a -1 ac was high!

[@DarthRadical]

Yeah - all depends on the edition. In 3.x I remember facing a dragon which had leveraged its inherent spellcasting to pre-buff so it was super hard to hurt normally (Mage Armor and Shield for AC, Heroism for save boost etc.) plus (as a red dragon) absorbing the first 100ish cold damage - which he obviously knew was his weakness. It then largely circle-strafed the party with its breath weapon and a damaging wand.

[@jaimetheone9150]

In this episode of "How to TPK": Dragons!

[@davidm6387]

Regarding crushing damage from a dragon landing/falling on someone, what you would realistically expect to see would be parts of them turning into liquid. That's what happens when a forklift runs over meat and bone. It doesn't just smoosh and flatten everything, it makes soup. If the victim could evade most of the impact then what you would see would be a shearing injury as if they got chopped by a big sword; I've seen rolls of soft plastic cut people like a knife at work just from the pressure of the weight.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

This is disturbing to read first thing in the morning 😂😂😂

[@iratevagabond204]

Worked in a factory where we assembled large mining equipment. . . We have this machine that flips these huge frame parts like a pancake. Lets just say that I feel like if a dragon landed on you, there would likely be nothing left to ressurect; you'd need a wish spell. I agree with David on this one.

[@IndyMotoRider]

@@iratevagabond204 nah, true resurrection "can even provide a new body if the original no longer exists".

[@Alche_mist]

@@IndyMotoRider Well, True Resurrection is, after all, a spell of Wish-level power. I'd even say, for the specialized task of resurrecting the dead characters, it should work slightly more consistent than Wish RAW.

[@thefallenmonk605]

I'm sorry but if your turned into a pile of goo no mortal to going to bring you back. Get a new character sheet. New idea sludge necromancer.

[@blakec1924]

People always forget that old dragons reach that for a reason and rain hellfire on their prey. Amazing work as always sir!!!

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@irtehdar2446]

I dont see why a dragon wouldnt run away even when defending its treasure. We are a weeks travel from the nearest settlement and the adventurers can only carry so much. Thinking they have won the adventurers fill their pockets and start heading home. 2 days later the adventurers are near crippled from exhaustion and slogging through a swamp. And while the Adventurers are trying to haul as much gold they can as fast as they can the Dragon has had a drink of water, a nap and a nice stretch. It knows what direction the adventurers are going, it knows the timeframe it has to work with and it knows the best ambush locations along their route. Time for round 2. Id say a dragon is definately smart enough to plan such a scenario in advance all the way back when it initially picked a nest site.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Totally fair!

[@veemie8148]

That's a good strategy unless the party Wizard/druid can teleport them somewhere safe

[@PyrMoc]

A good strategy for a first-encounter dragon if you want to make it surrender earlier and then have it come back to harry the party on their way home, making the party realize they'll need to go the whole way and not fall prey to a dragon's deceit.

[@MrKogline]

Exactly, the issue you run into is most of these creatures have high intelligence and it is hard to plan these things out when you yourself don't really know what to do. Let's be honest, most people would have INT 10-12 so when creatures have 18+ it is hard to get in their shoes and think of things geniuses would. I consider myself a decent tactician so when I was running a campaign where it was converted from an old 2nd ed module I had everyone start at level 20. I warned them this would be hard but they thought being level 20 made them awesome. Four Balor's was the first random encounter on the table and it took out all 6 level 20's. I just played smart since Balor's are smart. Everyone mostly agreed they should have died and appreciated the detail in the attack and thought more about encounters when I ran because I took INT into account.

[@icedragon5896]

Allowing the group to take the treasure, and patiently wait for them to begin hauling the treasure out, in their vulnerable state, and continue to perform strafing runs on them through the entire day, using their incredible senses to separate, and split the group even further. seems like a reason they would definitely run away... Part of the plan. Unless the party doesn't ever get fatigued, or exhausted, They won't be able to run forever, and if they take injuries from the breath attacks... they most certainly won't be able to sleep for long, with this creature actively hunting them mercilessly, and it would take much longer for the to get exhausted, than the party. if Playing as a dragon, I would assume I was intelligent enough to allow my horde to become part of the trap itself, and use their own greed to their demise. Now the party is split in the woods, and some of them lack survival skills. Either they succumb to the elements, or get tracked down one-at-a-time by a true apex predator. Succeeding against a dragon should probably be all about how much planning went into felling it, and whether or not they were able to force it to commit.

[@Barquevious_Jackson]

This is unbridled savagery, I have to deploy something like that with a flying enemy some time. The most original D&D content creator on youtube, great work as always.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Thanks ajax! That's a high compliment for sure!

[@johnsikking4891]

Just remember PCs are not the only things a dragon can drop. They are big strong creatures with four amazingly strong claws. They could be holding large stones to pummel the PCs with, B-29 style.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Great comment! Too bad I can't pin it yet!

[@russellharrell2747]

Why stop at rocks? Pots of boiling oil, green slime and other oozes, kamikaze goblins, go wild.

[@JadeDragon407]

A paw full of 1 oz gold coins make a shiny and fun projectile. You're here for gold... ohh... here you go! I got your gold right here!

[@DungeonDad]

This was really neat! Definitely going to steal some of these ideas!

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Please do! But make a dc17 slight of hand check first! 😂

[@jimmd68]

Nice video! There were a number of articles in Dragon Magazine back in the '70s & '80s that had similar themes: How to take what's written in the rules and make it better, tougher, etc. Good to see a similar thought process here in the 2020's.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

That's why I started this channel. I was frustrated not seeing anything than top 10 cleric spell lists

[@russellharrell2747]

Those articles led directly to the very scary dragons in 2E.

[@liondovegm]

5:32 in 10 years I have never once seen a Cleric that fits such a description

[@MrPtrlix]

The biggest problem with TTRPGs is that it needs to be fun. Playing dragons intelligently can be brutally effective at the cost of players' fun (hit&run tactics).

[@fadeleaf845]

There's even a few additional assets individual dragon species have. Each dragon is immune to one type of damage, which naturally inclines a dragon to set its lair in an environment where this kind of damage is either ubiquitous or easy to set up (Red Dragons in particular can employ flammable surfaces on their lair). Additionally, Black Dragons can swim and Blue Dragons can burrow, offering more kinds of movement options that are harder to deal with as a flying dragon is quite attackable with ranged weapons. Ambush locations offer ways for a dragon to go into hiding and await the right moment to strike.

[@SeiaiAnkoku]

These are very good points. Quite a few of the other dragon species also have swim or burrow speeds, both chromatic and metallic, so make sure to check and keep these in mind if you're running them in your game! A good example are White Dragons, which have both a swim speed and a burrow speed. They may be lower CR, but they're very adaptable!

[@russellharrell2747]

Grappling a character and then swimming out of reach of everyone else. Or burrowing in soft collapsible earth/snow and leaving the character trapped to suffocate. Neither one of these leaves the dragon vulnerable like flying out in the open.

[@jim7644]

I was actually thinking over this subject just the other day. Another possibility to go along with dragons carrying players up into the air actually works in conjunction with their breath weapon - specifically, a dragon could scoop up a PC in their mouth and fly up, and follow that up by firing their breath weapon directly upwards. Even if we assume that the kinetic force of a breath weapon wouldn’t be enough to push a PC at its maximum range, it’s still tossing them upwards while scorching/freezing/shocking/etc. them in the process. In fact, you could even argue that such an attack would take care of the druid’s outs: transforming in free-fall is one thing, but transforming after (basically) being shot out of a canon full of napalm is another. Or, if it’s a red dragon specifically, have them fly up to sixty feet and bave them fire their breath weapon DOWN while the druid’s in their mouth. Also, if anyone is familiar with Monster Hunter, then Valstrax’s dive-bomb attack might be something to consider instead of just having a dragon drop on a PC. If you think a 160 ton armored reptile FALLING on you is gonna do some damage, then imagine it diving at you, using its wings to accelerate the drop. If you want to get REALLY goofy with this, have the dragon dive-bomb one PC WHILE ANOTHER IS IN ITS MOUTH.

[@LionlordEbonfire]

For those DMs that saw Fizban’ Treasurery of Dragons and are picking fights with dragons I think that while dropping a target is nice, it has some issues. If the DM goes after the cleric, they should know Clerics are not defenseless since Command is a 1st level that only requires verbal and the words “Dive” and “Land” is a horrible thing to say to a dragon that really wanted to get away (but heya great way to burn those Legendary saves but hey you do have some proficiency to it but expect silvery barbs advantage escape). But honesty the thing to get occupied and out of the battle is a Sharpshooter Ranger. They will hit at range for all 600’ coming in and going back out. That is a couple of turns of damage and if you dropped a cleric or other they can revive dropped targets while the dragon attempt to get a second target. (Fighters are an issue as well if they have Sentinel + Heavy Weapon feat (you can tell from that Glaive) or Cavaliers just don’t head on attack near them.) Don’t forget Wizards, Sorcerers and the Erdrich beams of a Warlock. An EB that can move a target, can remove your victim by pulling them out of your claws. The Wizard and Sorcerers both can fly, teleport targets and even more annoyingly cast things like web (for you young dragons), wall of force and Force cage set to cast once you get close. Those held spell actions are an issue. And when you have a Sorcerer in claw expect Subtile spells. Lastly, there is nothing worst for your dragon to do then pretend that they are just animals. Dragons know themselves and what they can do and others can’t. They have a horde of magic items. Allies. Personal spell casting. Polymorph. Then can tunnel or come up out of the water and then take a target back under with them. Even the “Stupid” white dragons can formulate a surprise attack and then retreat. Nice video and fun to watch.

[@SeiaiAnkoku]

These are some of the points I was looking for here, especially regarding the player characters' options! I play a Sharpshooter Ranger with Favored Enemy (Dragons) and I would like nothing more than for one to take someone else and fly around with them, leaving themselves open to my attacks for a few rounds. This is where breaking line of sight or minions play a big part in tying my character up, and I get to play a fun game of cat & mouse either way! Love it.

[@TheHighestNoon]

I agree with what you're saying here. A dragon will not fare well when pit against a situation stacked against it. However, given that most Dragons are literal geniuses, I don't expect they would ever engage in situations like these. Assuming the Dragon was seen during its approach, the moment it takes an accurate shot from 600 ft it will adjust its tactics. Given that they have blindsight and 120ft darkvision, attacks would most likely come at night while the party was sleeping - or while the party is distracted by another encounter. Regarding your magic users, they're really..... not that good. Flying uses up concentration and there are much better concentration spells to use. Wall of Force is too small to contain a dragon. Forcecage I'll grant you is stupidly overpowered. Spells that target Wisdom or Charisma won't be useful against Adult Dragons due to their high saves and Legendary Resistances.

[@LionlordEbonfire]

@@TheHighestNoon To clarify, the Wall of Force spell prevents physical attacks and has a 10 foot radius also it is commonly used. Yes the Wall of Force may not cover all dragons (they range in size from medium to Gargantuan of course) but it also can be placed over the group if the initial breath weapon is no longer the primary concern but they fear the physical attacks more so. So if the dragon is too big you can use it over the group. They can heal or set resistances and drop it right as part of a coordinated counter attack. A fly spell used on others is the smart and optimal play but action oriented and new players will use it on themselves to get closer to use magic items and blasting away. Though also you should be aware that some species have flight as well (and you can bet if an Aasimar Protector sees a dragon they are going to fly). Also, more and more it is accepted that Silvery Barbs are going to be used so the odds are better that the Dragon’s three LR can be burned off leaving them vulnerable to the effect the players wanted to use in the first place. Again just some incite into common player stratagems - especially in light of the grab that the video was talking about.

[@ampage6439]

@@LionlordEbonfire Wall of Force actually blocks all spells that don't have "Self" as target due to line of effect rules.

[@LionlordEbonfire]

@@ampage6439 I don’t understand your point but going into the Wall of Force. It does not block all spells. Teleports and disintegrate both are noted in the text. But the vast majority of spells are affected. Though effects that are abilities are also case by case.

[@Dyrnwyn]

Sometimes it SHOULD be DM VS. players in tactical combat, not DM facilitating drama to make the players feel like they achieved something in a fight balanced in their favour.

[@JohnConnor365]

It seems I accidentally wrote in my universe that powerful Dragons are afraid of druids, now you gave me a great reason why, haha. Wonderful video, I love it and your Dragon Geopolitical video, too. Can't w8 for more! (:

[@ryadinstormblessed8308]

Recently started running a Tyranny of Dragons campaign, so thanks for the tips!

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Good luck!

[@solalabell9674]

m pretty sure a) falling damage caps at 20d6 and b) falling on someone splits the damage between you two. weirdly enough its because ive been working on how to use the new flying speeds for my dragon born barbarian to do the drop tactic so its a very similar case.

[@serviceisstrength3696]

The only problem I can see with running a dragon like this is the potential for it to be uninteractive for some players. The melee-only paladin would basically be forced to find somewhere to hide, as there is realistically no reason for a smart dragon to ever close with it in melee (if the opponent has no ranged options, the dragon would logically minimize risk by spamming its breath, staying out of range as it recharges). I do think a lot of the tactics you covered were brilliant, especially the point about scattering the party being the main point, I'm just worried that it might be too effective at neutralizing some player characters, forcing them to twiddle their thumbs while the encounter shreds the party.

[@StarWindEnergin]

This video is super helpful. My level 20 party is going up against the head dragon of a dragonflight in the next game. These tactics will be great.

[@eaglescott17]

Dungeon Masterpiece: "There is one party member that the dragon is terrified of." Me, who mains a Druid: "It's the Druid, isn't it." DM: "It's the Druid." Me: "LOL!"

[@solalabell9674]

monks are actually immune to the fall damage thing and can use SS to wear down legendary resistances so they'd also be a concern tbh

[@bicclizer6051]

@@solalabell9674 Not immune, just somewhat resistant. If we're assuming the monk is 4th level and apply the average falling damage of 12d6 which is 42, the reduction would only be 20 and it will leave them 22 damage to take, which is around 71% of the monk's health even with a +2 Con mod. Plus with SS, most dragons have around +5 Con and they're proficient with them (so +5 prof bonus) so wearing down legendary resistances is a monk's dream unless they focused their ASI on wis

[@LittleGiantCrafts]

I would be terrified to fight a dragon like this. Well done!

[@mikegould6590]

Dragons are never given their due. I've said this multiple times, in multiple forums, on multiple channels: Dragons are more than their stat block. Play to their strengths. Note their strength scores. Compare that to their size. The players handbook allows us to calculate what they can lift. If they can lift it, they can fly with it. If they can fly with it, they can bombard with it. Stones, ice boulders, chunks of a ruined bridge, full size trees...all become bombs they drop from whatever height they choose. This would DEVASTATE structures like castle rooftops and bridges. And while we're at it, lets be clear. Most classic structures did not have stone rooftops. They were wooden with shingles or tiles of some sort. Why? Weight. The level of engineering. Thus a 1000lb boulder dropped from 700 ft above would go through the roof, likely multiple floors, and then risk the collapse of nearby construction. Hell, a dragon might be able to YANK a wooden bridge loose and collapse it. They're immune to their breath. That means a fire breather can start a forest fire and stand IN IT while driving foes before it. Fire breathers will set structures alight. That castle? It may have walls of stone, but rooftops, doors, curtains, rugs, clothing, livestock, people, furniture, wooden stairs and more alllllllll burn. That turns the castle into an oven. Literally. Poison breathers can breath INTO a structure and "choke out" the residents. Those that flee are picked off. Poison gas isn't impeded by brush, grasslands, portculli, grates, etc. It gets everywhere, and the slightest wind can propel it...like beating wings for instance. Consider that green dragons also swim. They might breathe poison to drive people under water...where they are easy pickings and not trained for underwater combat. Added benefit - contaminates food. Lightning breath can set fires, electrify water and other conductive surfaces. They also burrow under the sand, creating ambush scenarios. Ambushed characters will be subject to surprise, which has a list of dire consequences. Cold breath can freeze surfaces, especially if they're damp or wet, creating hazardous surfaces. Dropping PCs with their strength into fresh water surfaces, then breathing onto the surface has the potential to trap PCs under ice. Acid breath can dissolve any organics, including wood and leather, creating a number of hazards. It will contaminate food like poison would, and ruins everything short of stone and ceramics. Black dragons, like White and Green, can swim, creating scenarios where player characters can be dragged under water. Given their size and bulk, as well as their favored environment, pushing someone into deep mud or peat, then standing on them, is nothing short of a death sentence. Dragons live to incredible ages and grow to enormous size. This speaks to two things: their experience and intelligence. Nothing grows to that size out of pure luck. It takes learning from experience, valuing your own life, discretion, ruthlessness by times, and deep pragmatism. Over their long lives, each dragon will develop strategies, allies, multiple lairs, and information networks to aid their survival. And let's be clear: evil dragons will (metaphorically in some cases) burn all this down to escape an live another day. They value their existence over all things. Dragons have more than two front claws and a mouth with teeth. Older editions had them using their wings, their hind feet and their tails. Feel free to add these to the attack rotation. I would. Dragons have senses beyond the norm. That's in their stat block. However, think about how these might be used if they're curious, suspicious or paranoid. Dragons have hoards...with magic items... Don't think for a second they won't use them. They're THEIR magic items - you're damn right they'll use them before these hair little thieves steal THEIR stuff. Perish the thought! A dragon knows when to cut and run. If they cannot defeat a foe, there's a very good chance they can outlive them and take their vengeance on the foe's descendants. Never ever forget that. Dragons are more than their stat block. They're iconic. Treat them accordingly.

[@7kyro]

I should have just read this comment instead of watching the video, lol. Good ideas here, especially the part about flapping the wings to spread poison and pulling someone underwater then freezing the surface. That’s pretty sweet. And another thing, how does everyone forget the magic items they have?? These dragons live long for a reason. They should be fully attuned to every slot before they reach adulthood. Not to mention lair actions and legendary actions… deadly.

[@mikegould6590]

@@7kyro I rarely run Dragon encounters for these reasons. There's always casualties.

[@ctboone1]

This is high-quality content, dude. Thank you for sharing these ideas.

[@rvl507]

Only found your content today but the insight and context you bring to Dungeon Mastery is supreme. Instant subscribe.

[@the_average_canadian]

The one issue I see with the dragon's strategy (that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere in the comments or the video) is that in 5e D&D, falling damage is capped at 20d6. After reaching 200 feet in the air, no more damage can be dealt from falling. That's an average of 70ish damage which a party of higher level than 7 or 8 stands a pretty good chance of surviving, even if they're unconscious. Sure they'll fail a death save, but that won't matter if a cleric/bard/druid/paladin is alive on the ground to bring them back up immediately.

[@cruciblegaminggroup5471]

That's why you maul them a few times before you drop them :)

[@AgranakStudios]

Now, dragon’s are once again terrifying! Great video!!!

[@rodentowl9415]

I think everything you said makes sense, and I 100% think most dragons would be fighting like this. This is how I've imagine them fighting for a long time. However, the only reason why I would be hesitant to have my dragons fight like this, is that I could easily see almost any group throwing a huge fit and calling it unfair (technically not unfair as it is all within logical and possible play with a dragons stat block and lore). I just think most players would say the dungeon master is being too aggressive with the players. Only reason why I would be worried about using this fight. Great video regardless!

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Eh, if you start you ur campaign using rough and realistic tactics with the goblins, they expect this from dragons 🤣

[@garysmith3037]

You could vary the intelligence and experience of the dragon by its age, an older dragon should definitely fight smarter than a young one. They could fight a wounded dragon, and hold off on a stronger, smarter one later on. You could also have the party come upon another group fighting a dragon and observe the tactics from a distance. Seeing that other party get decimated would give them some perspective on what they would be dealing with.

[@thomasfplm]

Your description of the cleric made me laugh when thinking about my last D&D character (it was in 3.5), who was a raptoran, used a short spear, light armour (to avoid speed reduction), a decent Dex, a monstrous AC and a Ring of Freedom of Movement. He also haf a belt that allowed him to switch places with an ally twice per day. Also, most dragons are spellcasters, witch helps with many problems.

[@ivarramirezpaulsen8212]

There is one thing in dnd lore, Certain dragons fight certain ways for eksempel 🔴red🔥 and 🔵blue⚡️. Reds are stiff flyers because of all that Muscle and such prefer to climb, Blue Dragons are one of the best flyers of all dragons (second only to Yellow) I am just mentioning. This not meant to be rude.🔥⚡️🔴🔵

[@greatestoldone7658]

There is no reason why a dragon shouldn't just stay in the air and spam breath attacks in most cases. Multiattack cannot grapple, falling damage caps at 20d6, falling speed is 500 ft. per turn.

[@CCMinis]

I sent your channel to my DM and I think I'm going to regret it... love your stuff man, keep at it

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Glad you are enjoying it!! Get with me on discord if you'd like to colab sometime!

[@CCMinis]

@@DungeonMasterpiece I'd love that, let's chat

[@Jpteryx]

"With multiattack, the dragon has three opportunities to succeed grappling." Technically this is not in the rules. A PC's Extra Attack action lets them use any attack, including a grapple, but a monster's Multiattack only allows a few specific attacks, usually not including grappling. Also, if the dragon is a young dragon, and it tries picking up a heavily-armored cleric with Athletics proficiency, the grappled cleric can just grapple the dragon back, sending *both* plummeting to the ground and preventing the dragon from just flying away on its next turn (this happened in one of my games!). Anyway, I just had the dragon pick up the cleric to make the fight more interesting, but I'm not sure grappling is often useful for a dragon. A young red dragon's multiattack deals 46 damage if every attack hits (and with +10 to hit, it has a high probability to hit). Meanwhile, flying 40 feet up on its turn will eventually deal a mere 14 falling damage to whatever it has grappled. I think a stronger tactic in most situations is to swoop in and out of melee with its chosen target, heedless of opportunity attacks thanks to 18 AC, until its breath weapon recharges.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Ooohhh good observation

[@GrimGoblinLives]

You clearly should not do this one with a young dragon, unless the target is a small creature.

[@sumdud2129]

I think you're missing the point in that time the dragon is flying up it's taking virtually no melee damage from any of the parties Rogues, fighters, paladins, or barbarians. And given that there is virtually nothing to do against this unless someone has a flying speed your party will collectively s*** themselves wondering what the hell they can do to save their friend whilst the clock is ticking. The whole point of CR is rating based on how much a monster would be a challenge to a party of a certain level, but a creature becomes infinitely more deadly if you have to 1v1 it. Lastly the entire point of this video is that dragons are supposed to be incredibly smart and tactical playing a dragon like a big unga bunga beater that just stays on the ground and uses breath weapons is not only boring, but technically not even faithful towards how a dragon would actually fight.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

@@sumdud2129well said

[@Jpteryx]

@@sumdud2129 I'm not saying the dragon should sit on the ground. I'm saying it can do more damage if it swoops past its target overhead, multiattacking as it goes by. If the party is spread out (to avoid breath weapons), the only melee attacks that can be made against the dragon are opportunity attacks (or held action attacks) from the dragon's target.

[@mattalford3862]

This was amazing and something I've never seen before. Amazing tactics that I am definitely trying on a party someday soon. More videos like this one please!

[@KnarbMakes]

"Ejects a stream of blood from it's eyes..." NOPE NOPE NOPE. Enough internet for one day.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

This has inspired me to make a blood dragon statblock......

[@charleyedwards2121]

@@DungeonMasterpiece oh helll ya

[@orboakin8074]

Holy heck! Yours is the best and most realistic, while simultaneously fantastical dragon combat scenario I have seen in fantasy!

[@SignoftheMagi]

I feel this skips two major weapons in a dragon's arsenal: magic and environment. Nearly all dragons are spell-casters in their own right, equal to at least a mid range sorcerer. Some are as strong as max level wizards. This means dragons can employ a wide variety of traps and manipulations, Second is environment. Every dragon enjoys an extreme elemental environment as a home. It is not just the open air adventurers must fear, for some can swim or borrow. Swamps, quicksand, sudden lava flows, subzero temperatures, toxic clouds and plants. Dragons are intelligent beings. Use that.

[@krispalermo8133]

Due to local rumors the area's red dragon Stole a bale role of straw ? Why would a dragon steal a bale of straw ? Later on the adventures are going through the dragons lair they find the path before them covered in straw. The dwarf says best not let any of the torches hit the ground or the burning straw smoke will choke the life out of them before they even get the chance to battle the dragon.

[@SignoftheMagi]

@@krispalermo8133 You could also use iron shavings or sulfur mixed in sand. Or picture this: a blue dragon puts the entrance to his lair and horde at the bottom of an underground lake. Dragon stays at far corner and uses Invisibility, until the party is in the middle of the lake. Lightning breath. The entire party is electrocuted. They can't spellcast or use ranged weapons while swimming. And there is no light. The electrical attack will cause muscles to seize...including the lungs.

[@krispalermo8133]

@@SignoftheMagi Well at one time blue dragons had the ability of Create/Destroy Water once per day, so they could create their own under ground ponds. One another side note, the Dead Sea area has a lot of sulfur naturally mixed into the local sands. Also the water run off paths show signs of chemical fires dating back thousands of years old. Since a few science shows where minor earth quakes cause natural gas to rush breaking the surface in explosions causing sulfur to rain burning down from the sky. Along with everything you need to create Greek Fire. So the story of Sodom and Gomorrah has more to due with unstable plate shifting in a high mineral area. I know it is bad taste to mix religion in thread topics, .. but Lake of Fire ? How many times have you seen on the news about African brush fires covers tens of square miles of grasslands ? Northern areas of the middle east has a long history of grass fires during the dry seasons. Even the Norse myths that Loki was birthed by a forest fire during a dry season from lightning. As for your ideal of .. iron shavings .. the Black Sand beaches of Turkey is an iron sand deposit. I seen YT videos on how people can just collect drift wood and stack stones up with some mud to create a iron smelter right on the beach. Tourist travel to those beaches during the start of the rain season to watch the dry lightning flicker across the sands, from a safe distances. When 3rdE came out with " shock lizards," we just add their ability to blue dragons. Then made a group of shock lizards with the half blue dragon template as a form of drakes. To up the stakes we create half dragon clans made from human wizard/sorcerers that polymorph themselves into large size dragons or a charm/item of Polymorph Self for dragons to take human form with out being centuries old before learning the spell themselves. Dragon disciplines reaching a given level, instead of becoming liches they become young dragons with their full spell casting abilities which could off balance and rival true dragons. But once the human spell caster becomes a .. true dragon, .. they must deal with dragon sleep per hit dice for a number of months or years. Which effectively removes that PC from the game campaign. So everyone has to come up with something their PCs to do as the mage takes a two year dragon nap. My game shop also played Whitewolf/World of Darkness: Werewolf, Mage the Awakening and Changeling. Which has a better system of magic to work with in dealing with spirits and fiends from the lower planes. D&D doesn't have a spell point system like WoD does and items that hold manna is called tass which can be used as spell components to cast and empower spell casting. The sand glass created by a blue dragon breath weapon would hold electric/lightning tass for spell use. When a set of dragon eggs are about to hatch in their parents' lair, rain storms will blow in and plant growth will go into over drive creating a bunch of over size insects and herd animals for the dragon young to feed off of and just before the dragon goes off into dragon sleep for a few years to bulk up on. Populations within the dragon's lair will have larger than normal herd animals and all human will take on the half orc template for strength bonus. Metalic dragons will have a higher than normal rate of paladins, where reds would create more rage induce barbarians. Green dragons would be known for shady merchants and control freak nobles and warlords. Blue dragons would have a bunch of sky blue robe mystics practicing lightning magic. A blue dragon lair with half dragon cultist will have nearly all of their lair cave walls carved with arcane runes and wards. No different than a human child or teenager drawing artwork for their grandparent's house.

[@grandempress1947]

One thing I would mention as someone who’s played a flying race and an owner of a flying mount, one other way to possibly pick off those annoying fall-proof players or those like Druids/Barbarians that simply refuse to die is a point-blank breath weapon. It’s something I VERY rarely see used, but after grappling and fully restraining (if you allow the Dragon this ability, you could choose to have it fly as high as it can and deliver the full power of its Breath Weapon to the player. Unless its a special circumstance, it’ll be making its save at disadvantage, so you’ll more often than not be taking the FULL force of the breath weapon as well as be drinking all of the dragon’s Legendary actions. Its extremely brutal, but highly effective in killing basically anything. There’s no flying or polymorphing if you’re KO’d

[@russellharrell2747]

Any dragon with a swim or burrowing speed need to be grappling the much smaller PCs, moving at full speed with them into water/acid/lava/sand/snow and dropping those massive HP totals to zero in a few rounds of suffocation per RAW. Did the PC get a chance to hold their breath? Probably not, especially if the dragon won initiative, but if there’s a question you could allow a dex save to attempt to hold their breath before they are buried alive or at the bottom of a completely dark subterranean sea.

[@vigilantgamesllc]

Love this! Additionally, due to it's intelligence, and adult or older dragon I run has greater control over their breath weapon. They can change the shape, pivot their head and neck during it, and even pinpoint it within range. This creates very cinematic encounters and the players are higher level at the point they would fight one, so it balances out.

[@orionar2461]

They cant do that mechanically, but would make an interesting homebrew

[@vigilantgamesllc]

@@orionar2461 Right, I was trying to imply that those were mechanics I added by saying it's how I run them. Apologies if that wasn't clear.

[@orionar2461]

@@vigilantgamesllc I misread that. having I and run on separate lines made me skip them.

[@russellharrell2747]

Just call it a dragon feat.

[@uvsa2833]

After recently discovering your channel, I need to say: your videos are awesome! Thanks a lot!

[@PeterAnadale]

This is actually brilliant. Thanks, Baron!

[@Goteiii]

A DM might need to consider, that a dragon using these tactics, might be of even higher cr than described in the stat block. You can play into a dragon's arrogance as well, to underestimate the party until it realizes that they are actually dangerous, at which point they start using these tactics. Like a second boss phase.

[@breanne2117]

Excellent content. I'm trying to learn D&D so I can DM for my teenage sons and husband. He is always the DM. This content allows me to learn while I work. I also love that you aren't swearing or provocative, at least so far, so I can show these videos to my kids. Thanks for the quality content.

[@nikolajsteffensen6578]

one thing we also have to take into account is that while highly intelligent Dragons are arrogant. i could see them use tactics like this for hunting or for enemies they actually would consider a threat (perhaps a dragon cult aligned dragon targeting the party might do this because the party has been fucking with the cult) so i could see young adults be the most likely to use this as they are old enough to realise they aren't invincible. and young enough to know that they are not adults and thus. not invincible. this tactic would also only work if it is the dragon attacking the party rather than the party attacking the dragon since a dragons lair usually has a ceiling making an upwards then drop tactic not really applicable in the same way. but if you want to really fuck with your party this is an excellent way to do it.

[@hamsterfromabove8905]

Dragons are arrogant yes. But they are also geniuses by human standards. They also have excellent wisdoms scores for self awareness. They aren't going to be stupidly prideful and do something illogical purely because they want to gloat. A dragon that makes it to Adult or Ancient is one that got there through more than just its strength. The older a dragon gets the more intelligently it will fight.

[@solomani-42]

Good advice. My dragons always fly and the breath weapon can’t be avoided by splitting up. A dragon can move its head and use it like a flame thrower (within limits). I like 4e dragons and associated tactical maps.

[@thibble8257]

First video - instant sub. What a likeable person.

[@YAH93]

Another probably useful thing for dragons: add the flyby ability. That way, the dragon can stay 10 feet of the ground, deliver its attacks with Claws and Bites and fly out of melee range without an Attack of Opportunity. I used this on a Lvl 20 vs Tiamat One Shot, and it helped a bit.

[@LONO742]

I had my decoder ring ready and everything....hope the Illuminated Owlbears have not lost their grip on this world.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

iDrops only happen every so often.

[@syrupchugger421]

Such great strategy for what should be an awesome inspiring epic foe. Thanks for the video!

[@Micaerys]

As a DM I didn't have the opportunity of using a big dragon in combat yet (the closest thing was a bronze hatchling a party had to rescue) but watching this... I'm wishing to have that opportunity, it sounds amazing and absolutely terrifying

[@adamavants388]

I think that it is important to note that a Red and most likely even a Blue Dragon would not resort to the tactic of dropping an opponent. The Red Dragon would see it as a slash against their ego (not being able to defeat the Paladin on even footing) And the Blue Dragon would see it as dishonorable to treat a foe like this. This is the same reasons these two Dragons would never sit in the air blast their breath weapon. In their minds it just isn't the right way to fight. However I think these tactics work amazingly for the other three types of chromatic dragons, Green, Black, and White! Overall a great video and amazing strategies!! What I sad here only applies to D&D 5e canon behavior for Dragons. There is nothing wrong with making Dragons behave however you want them to and no one is wrong for making a Red Dragon sit in the air and spam its breath!

[@74gould]

Great video! It can be such a challenge to truly make seasoned 5e players feel like their characters’ lives are in actual peril… So tips like these are greatly appreciated!!

[@tyarkschettler853]

With that knowledge I will now always carry my means for feather fall with me

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

LOL

[@tyarkschettler853]

@@DungeonMasterpiece you say lol but that renders this tactic basically useless (not if the Dragon slaughters me with their attacks in the air)

[@veemie8148]

@@tyarkschettler853 it's a very long and slow way down while seperated from the party with featherfall xD

[@Lowdian]

Dragon: LOL, Dispel Magic

[@lolly9804]

The DM tried doing something like this, but it was in Pathfinder, so the Swashbucker managed to swing onto on it's back, and passed a bunch of ride checks while trying to stab past it's crazy AC. Still got away, but had it out for him after that indignity.

[@O4C209]

Came back to watch this video again. So good. Campaign I'm DMing first arc is culminating with the group heading to fight a White Dragon with a tribe of Orcs in tow (15 of them). Had them roll for every 8 hours of travel and if they rolled a 1 the Dragon showed up. I told them this. As they climbed the snow caped mountains, nearing the dragon's lair, they rolled a 1. Player that rolled: "Oh God. Oh God. Everyone's dead. Everyone's dead. Scatter." That was the end of the last session. Next session is going to be a massacre.

[@Apple2Pie]

It's brilliant and insane! I'll definitely use it in my TPK one-shot:)

[@valasafantastic1055]

Adjust tactics to the PCs and terrain. Often the damage of grappling flying up and dropping a single target is not ideal for the dragon. Any decent party should have excellent ranged options. Sharpshooter with longbow is 600 ft (for example) and spellcasters have 120 ft on many of the best cantrips. falling damage is far less than its claws and teeth. I have a custom chart for falling object damage(based in the falling objects Wt and the distance it falls before hitting a creature) but rules as written and logic or not the dragons bulk doesn’t come into play. I’d say any decent party has lots of spells and magic items to deal with a flying dragon or eliminate fall damage. The other issue is rules as written a dragon has to give up ALL it’s claw/bite to do one singular grapple. But a Fighter (say) who might even have proficiency in athletics can attempt to escape the grapple with each attack action (including if they use action surge). And clerics can also have proficiency in athletics. Dragons shouldn’t use cold logic when defending their hoard they will fight to the death usually but there is often an in world lore reason why the hoard is beyond valuable to a dragon. They are intelligent but not robots their emotions come into play. How would anyone feel if tiny creatures broke in to their house and started attacking them and stealing there valuables? I think a DM needs to pick a HP threshold where once hit the dragon flees if encountered away from their hoard as they wouldn’t want to get killed. You have to homebrew a few things and change tactics based on the party. 1) allow grapple to replace each attack (or at least each claw attack) 2) add damage for the dragon landing or falling onto targets (warning logic dictates THIS becomes a huge or larger dragons strongest weapon for the mass = fall damage, as in reality it would liquify a person) 3) add in any spell like abilities, spellcasting, pre set up traps, terrain features, and minions, etc. Now I went on the lower than logical end of falling object damage. Why? Because it will absolutely derail a campaign and become the focus of how flying things attack to the potential detriment of everything else! Still I added this as tactically dropping things like boulders makes sense. Even a 10 lb stone dropped should be brutal really. One of the reasons dragons are played ‘dumb’ is because this is actually more fun for the PCs. Allowing them to be mighty dragon slaying hero’s! Who defeated an intelligent powerful legendary foe! Sometimes (often) GMs play enemies less tactical on purpose. This is more necessary for 1) new players 2) players who don’t play as tactically well (or who don’t optimize, often panic, forget gear/class abilities,) and for groups who are not as effective at combining their abilities (class and gear) optimally. When that wizard keeps casting fly on themselves rather than the barbarian. When your group has forgotten the great magic item they found 3 sessions ago, when they keep casting healing word before a PC is down rather than the optimal time/ and casting spiritual weapon instead. The fools who mostly lack ranged options (for no logical or feasible reason), etc. (sorry I have a few pet peeves) You need to play the dragon stupid or it’s a TPK. Then your not playing, or gauge the PCs; will this group learn from and be ok with permadeath/TPK? Or will, that just end playing DnD with is group? The point is fun. And playing. We have to balance versilimitude and logic with what our players actually find fun and their level of tactical competence!

[@discodecepticon]

Right. Fall damage is less than the Dragons melee damage... But, the idea is that it does the melee damage, then drops you for the fall damage. Melee damage is less than fall damage plus melee damage.

[@valasafantastic1055]

@@discodecepticon That would be homebrew. Which I do encourage; BTW. RAW however the dragon isn't a battlemaster Fighter (or other multiattacking PC) and can't make a fully damaging claw attack and then with the same attack initiate a grapple then fly up and drop the person. It either uses all attacks to make a single grapple Or makes the damaging melee attacks. I'm saying you CAN but it IS homebrew for sure.

[@EvelynNdenial]

given dragons are sapient and highly intelligent i'd say against any grounded foes the dragon actually considers a threat they'd play it safe up out of spell range and just drop boulders on it. since the dragon has the speed advantage it can withdraw to get more rocks and occasionally rest. they'd whittle an enemy down making sure threats like druids and wizards are dead before going in for the kill using the method you are suggesting.

[@russellharrell2747]

Do dragons want to even come into contact with high level PCs? I’d say once the PCs are In the lair that the dragon would trigger a massive cave in. The massive treasure horde was actually illusory, with the real treasure safely hidden in a other location. The dragon obviously escapes as they trigger the trap. Even worse, the chamber floods with acid for a black dragon or fills with sand for a blue dragon.

[@brandonparish3113]

How the hell am I barely discovering this content? What a gold mine.

[@neilhenderson6602]

Just catching up with this excellent video. My Black Dragon Vortexia will ensure these tactics are used to good effect

[@victorbazan2676]

This was great, thank you. Very original.

[@LachesisRising]

This is an excellent video. Thank you.

[@camerongunn7906]

When I started playing under second edition and then under 3.5, you would be a special child for taking on anything older than a young adult dragon. Taking on an ancient dragon is something that really only epic level parties should be getting into.

[@thediceflayer001]

As a DM I wouldn't allow a creatures grappled by the dragon to also be able to be hit by the wing attack. Claw and bite, yes, but not wings. Unless you gave the PC an acrobatics check to escape the grapple for free since the dragon would have to atleast somewhat open its claws for the wings to even be able to hit the target. It's also worth noting that not all dragons are that intelligent. White dragons are no more intelligent than a standard NPC with a 10 INT score, so while they are prolific hunters, I wouldn't play them the same as say a green dragon with a 20 INT score.

[@Unanimoustoo]

This is one of the first video's of yours that I've seen and I have to say that I really enjoyed it. I would like to add that an adult or ancient dragon could also rip trees or boulders out of the ground to throw at players from on high as well. If in the dragon's lair, maybe the dragon grabs a stalagmite to throw, or simply breaks stalactites and lets them fall on party members. If the party is scaling the dragon's mountainous layer, the dragon could cause an avalanche to try and sweep away the party. Which could be a fun skill challenge for the players as they try to use the tools at their disposal to try to escape or survive the landslide. Alternatively if the party is already in the lair, maybe the dragon has piled up gold to mimic the behavior of a landslide. Why would it do that? Because gold weighs more than steel, and the dragon has a massive hoard of gold. To counteract the threat of a druid, the dragon can utilize it's own magic to great effect. As the mere presence of a legendary dragon is enough to begin warping the environment around it's lair to create various hazards. Whether it's the continuous lightning/thunderstorms around a blue dragon's lair, or the volcanic fissures and earthquakes that surround a red dragon's lair. Additionally the dragon can rest during the day while the party approaches, and then disrupt the party's ability to long rest, and potentially pounce on the druid while they sleep. Even if the dragon doesn't kill the druid during the opening barrage, they force the party, and druid in particular, to expend more resources. And then it only has to disengage and reengage during each "watch" of the night and turn the "long rest" into a disjointed series of short rests for each party member.

[@CocktailUnderground]

You could read the local news in a suit like that.

[@CocktailUnderground]

Maybe even the national news.

[@YAH93]

"Clerics have weak spells and nothing to help them in this situation" Clerics: laughing in Domain of Twilight

[@al2642]

Incredible take on the matter!

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

This was great and has usefull tips in making realistic creatures as well! I would love an follow up to this video on How to Fight a Realistic DND dragon for both DMs and Players. Which how I would fight one would be... 1. With a magufin/limited use magic item like the Dragonrend shout from Skyrim. That is only good for the dragon fight and make the fight at the end of an advanture... Or treat it as something powerfull that beocmes normal then outdated later in the adventure. 2. Bring an army or the traveling Dragon slayer or this drangon is weak to a few things your party has and you just need to plan with your GM ways to kill it. 3. Fight in when it's vernerble like in doors or just got back from a long flight or you keep fighting it running away and come back for it then end it in it's lair when it's deafetable... Still epic and the players can do this on their own but does take time and depends on how the dragon recovers.

[@MarianoPingitore]

I think there is another, subtler problem with designing fights against Dragons in D&D 5e: To preface, I've seen DMs worried that Dragons as written in the Monster Manual and similar sources are not "powerful enough" to live up to the fantasy of the game and their legendary status. I've even seen youtube videos by popular content creators suggesting different ways to buff Dragons to make them more appropiate to their supposed challenge rating. I've always thought that that misalignment was due to poor tactics on behalf of said DMs. It also is due to poor lair design. Most DMs will want the party to fight the dragon in its lair, to get extra mileage (and flavour) from lair actions, but those lairs are usually not high enough to utilize the Dragon's greatest strenght: its Fly speed combined with legendary actions. All of these things combine and the result is usually a Dragon fight where the Dragon is constantly in range of every attack and spell except (sometimes) melee and their Legendary saves and HP are whittled down very fast, while usually it does not have enough time to recharge its breath weapon enough times. For all of what I said beforehand, I think this video has the right tools for those DMs to understand why Dragons are a VERY deadly foe for a level appropriate party. The subtler problem I was implying in the beginning of this comment is that the "correct strategy" described in this video, while it would yield an infinitely more effective Dragon in combat also tends to create scenarios that are not fun for the players. Imagine being the player who is playing the cleric you described, being targeted first, getting grappled with no chance to escape, having their spells be sort of useless in the situation and falling to their death on round 2 or 3 of the combat. Said player will NOT have a good time in that game. Now imagine being the crossbow wielding rogue, having exactly one round to try to deal good damage and then spending the rest of the fight trying to shoot the Dragon at distance with disadvantage and no sneak attack damage, just waiting for their turn to go on a non consentual death ride. Not fun either. Imagine being the Paladin or Fighter player, having exactly no chance to land a Melee attack (except maybe an opportunity attack) and watching how the party that they were supposed (in some cases sworn) to protect is torn to shreds while they are mostly ignored and left for dessert. Not fun. If you are the DM of that group and had the intention that the PC's won the encounter, at some point your Dragon will have to make a HUGE and kinda obvious mistake to provide the opening for that win, which can create the feeling in the players that you "went easy" on them, which is also not satisfying to most groups. So the question still stands: How can you make a compelling Dragon encounter for a level appropriate party that does not end one of two ways (Dragon played dumb and got smashed/Dragon played smart and TPK'd the party or was gracious enough to leave them (and your campaign) alive but no one had a good time)?

[@AlexnicholasBlakely]

This was so fun. Great advice.

[@wilfredofigueroa7970]

Druid can also cast tidal wave in the air to knock dragons prone. Can cast absorb elements or protection from poison. Can also if they are moon druids turn into elementals. A druid concentrating on call lightning as a fire elemental is gonna wreck a red dragon if he puts the cloud over the dragons hoard and starts pocketing treasure.

[@solaries3]

It should be noted that, RAW, you can't replace the individual attacks of multiattack with anything not listed on the stat block, including grapple and shove. This means your ancient dragon cannot grapple with a strict reading of the rules (because ancient dragons do not grapple in their stat block at all). Of course, that's hog wash and DMs should ignore it, but it's still true of 5e. Fall dmg also maxes at 20d6 (70 dmg avg), which also really puts a damper on dragons. It's like 5e doesn't want dragons to be cool RAW.

[@russellharrell2747]

The 20d6 fall damage limit goes all the way back to at least 2E. Grapple and shove are listed as attack options that replace whatever ‘normal’ attacks a creature is using, and that is a more specific rule that overrules a more general rule like multi attack.

[@RobKinneySouthpaw]

The characters I've played might throw off the dragon's plan A. Half orc full ate wearing battlemaster waits for his turn and pulls out...an Elvish longbow. Sharpshooter with proficiency in not getting grappled. Cleric is a light cleric with 2 levels divination wizard. Command "drop it" and feather fall would be a start. Shield and Guiding bolt not a bad combo either. Also can force a fail on the command. Worth a legendary resistance to hold on to the cleric?

[@TristanBWV]

That's a very strange reading of sleet storm. Though the vision block seems to be useful, it seems like the spell is describing the difficult conditions on the ground as the cause of fall. While you could rules-lawyer it and say that anything entering the area has to make the DC, it does not seem the intent of the spell that air-born, multi-ton creatures with centuries of flying experience out of the air. Rather, it seems more concerned with creatures needing traction to stand on the icy surface it creates. Plus, the area is quite small (to a dragon), the idea that it is so powerful it suddenly robs them of all their inertia seems a little out of scale for the spell.

[@cameronpearce5943]

Weirdly enough this is how one of my characters killed a dragon. Teleported onto its back and used her last few spells and cantrips to stun and damage it with booming blade

[@andrewhaldenby4949]

Wonderful! Ty , so creative

[@Kevlar-78]

Llamas. You forgot llamas and the spit. 🦙

[@chrisg8989]

3 things I do to make Dragon combat better. 1) A Boss action at the start of each round of combat. 2) Reactive Trait, allowing the Dragon to strike back after each player attacks. 3) Lair Action at the end of every round. I use these instead of Legendary Actions.

[@stanisawdrewienkowski2843]

Holy shit, i'v been watching this channel for a while now and all I is great content all around. Wow.

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Glad you find it useful!

[@mr.pavone9719]

This was actually very interesting to listen to. The very idea that a DM would play a monster intelligently seems to have been lost on a lot of people since the beginning of D&D. I've always felt that many players treat the monster manual as a checklist of things to kill rather than the DM using it to create legendary, tactically sound battles between heroes and terrifying beasts.

[@tom_curtis]

Regarding dragons falling on people when they die, the poor person on whom they fell would not receive the full amount of damage. Even scaled bodies flex at the surface. Consequently, most of the weight of the dragon would be held up by the floor, with only the weight of the small part held up from the floor by the unfortunate adventurer causing them damage. Given that dragons are much longer than they are high, this would be about the same weight as a medium, or if very unfortunate, a large creature. Besides which, as every one knows, the literary trope is that the dragon falls on the hero, making everyone think they are dead; but only making them all but dead.

[@MarcusBeirne]

I love this. I hate that dragons tend to be a bit meaty single-shot cannon that gets whittled down round by round. Treating them like an intelligent apex predator gives justice to the lore.

[@volosguidetomonsters3440]

Do NOT EVER do this without the party already being prepared and knowing they are about to fight a dragon

[@russellharrell2747]

These tactics are for the adult and ancient dragons that parties know that they must be prepared for. These dragons already have lair actions and other nasty tricks, so the high level parties have no excuse when these monsters do unexpected things. High level parties should be prepared for ANYTHING, up to and including the radical transformation of the environment, teleporting to incredibly hostile locations like solid rock or the vacuum of space, being trapped in a time loop, being wished out of existence, and taxes.

[@volosguidetomonsters3440]

@@russellharrell2747 I agree completely (But taxes are impossible to escape unless you have the secret sauce but having the secret sauce is illegal)

[@maesdejardin8648]

Some of these tactics are even more deadly in earlier editions, such as 3.5 where generally speaking, the players have far more power at their disposal than in 5e. Incidentally, I'm currently running a 3.5 game themed on Dragons of the Great Game Xorvintaal, in which the PCs have faced a number of unique dragons already, each using tactics unique to it's type. I feel like I may have to use your tactics in their next encounter, because so far, they've managed to not face a real challenge.

[@jonasstrandberg1788]

Loved this video, any chance you make one of these for a high level spell caster, and how their tactics would be used against the party?

[@hoi-polloi1863]

A couple thoughts... * Forget falling damage! If the dragon has you grappled, it should go for "biting your head off" damage. PCs are wily, there's no need to give them chances to escape * Dragon doesn't need to finish the whole party off in one day. A dragon with an invisibility spell can be death from above on the party *daily* for *weeks* as they trudge wearily toward its distant lair, picking off one every couple days * Speaking of distant lair... if the party has to cross dry grasslands on the way to the lair, the dragon can set the savanna on fire and severely damage them from a safe distance * A wise dragon picks a lair that can't be reached without serious cliff-scaling equipment. It's hard to fight while clinging to a rope...

[@samuelhilt563]

This is perfect thankyou

[@Jarethenator]

There is very little stopping a dragon from picking up a boulder, flying up into the air, and dropping it on a character at a height of terminal velocity….the same goes for dropping the players themselves. “Skeletor will be back with more forbidden knowledge!…”

[@russellharrell2747]

Feather fall or command ruins these attacks. And these are attacks, so I’d expect that dragon to roll to hit with any dropped ot thrown rocks. Red dragons should always have lava/magma pools that PCs can be tossed into following a grapple.

[@papallegatepoope3010]

Targeting the cleric is often a solid bet. Sort of a reversal of that, if an enemy worships that deity I often have them avoid such actions.

[@MathKJW]

I agree with the danger of the Druid and I found that the dragon can cope with a Druid via minions. Regarding the breath weapon, I haven’t seen a strafing mechanic. I’ve only read that the dragon has to stop, use breath weapon, then fly. I thought that was lame so I home-brewed/mathed a strafing mechanic. It makes the breath-weapon even more terrifying. If anyone can point out that mechanic, I’d appreciate it.

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Very good strategy breakdown I’m going to use this

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

Please do!!

[@Miguel-bk3yo]

Ill add, during dragon encounters turn up the environmental dangers to 11; don't overlook their regional effects. Think of how an apex predator, some with with genius intelligent, would use his enviroment to his advantage. A Dragon would also chose a defensible lair location. Avalanches, drownings in a murky swamp, hiding in the murky swamp, lobbing rocks and trees, hiding in a snowstorm, strong winds preventing missile fire, creating pyroclastic flows, death valleys with toxic air, etc...and green dragons would keep hostages(and hide amongst them to be "rescued")

[@phrikaphrak40k]

a video like this on liches would be amazing

[@WylochsArmory]

4:46 *breathing intensifies*

[@DungeonMasterpiece]

That was legit a message direct to you hahah

[@4saken404]

Dragons should be badass enough that they don't need any of this, though. They shouldn't have to use every trick in the book and fight like a rogue, or fight like any single humanoid foe is a threat to them. If a barbarian PC can just confidently charge into battle then a full-on dragon should be able to as well.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Anyone who has played or seen enough playthroughs of the Dark Souls 1 DLC knows how a dragon fight should work. The dragon never lands. A grounded dragon is a dying dragon. Bringing a dragon to the ground should be a sidequest in and of itself. You have to seek out the legendary blind giant archer who sits whittling wook masks and dolls in a crumbling tower. The legendary dragon slaying archer who wields a longbow the size of a telephone pole. The giant then puts a balllista bolt sized arrow through one of the dragon's wing joints. Only then do you track it down and fight it on the ground. This is why everyone just tracks the dragon to its lair and fights it while it has all those devastating lair actions. Fighting it out in the open is suicide.

[@sethatsma301]

A dragon might fear the druid, but can't resist the bard!

[@deviousdelibird]

*saxophone music intensifies*

[@ValdVincent]

I don't know why it'd target the Cleric first and the Wizard like 3rd. The Wizard is the weakest and most dangerous, everyone knows this. Sure a Druid can counter the dragon but the Wizard is their DPS and has tricks of their own. Plus in 5e especially the Bard tends to be the healer, far better choice then the cleric who likely is trying to be a worse paladin. It's also worth remember that Druids are also great healers, I guess if the Dragon sees one they might be better off letting it's hoard target and focus fire that. Oh you didn't realize the dragon with it's insane wealth, power, and influence and immortality has a bunch of Sorcerers under them, kobold children, dragonborn creations, and more?