Very helpful. And if I understand what you are saying on such a technical topic, than that proves you are an excellent instructor. Thanks.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
That's kind, thank you.
@Bayonet18093 жыл бұрын
A correction: the solid and dotted lines show radial and tangential mtf respectively. Mtf is a combination of both sharpness and contrast. Radial and tangential refer to the direction of the line pairs, whether they are segments of lines originating from the centre of the image (radial) or at right angles to those (tangential). The difference in mtf between these two is astigmatism.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
That is technically correct, but too complex an explanation for this kind of an application. I'm trying to help people understand MTF on a basic (practical level), not bury them in complexities...which defeats the purpose.
@TripleJAu3 жыл бұрын
@@DustinAbbottTWI I for one greatly appreciate it 🙂
@Bayonet18093 жыл бұрын
@@DustinAbbottTWI A reasonable aim to be sure, but there is a difference between simplification and providing wrong information. The fact that mtf charts actually show both the amount and the field dependent location of astigmatism would be lost on an unaware viewer who would finish watching your video thinking the different lines represented sharpness and contrast. To simplify correctly you could have instead said to average the lines to get an approximation of resolution.
@edwardlustigman25683 жыл бұрын
Good presentation and very helpful
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it
@longrider95513 жыл бұрын
Mr. A as always very useful information, I tend to follow the second part of your advice and always rent before I buy a lens, so I can look at 100 images in varying light conditions. I have made 2 or 3 purchases after seeing some reviewers not rate a lens so high. I have also found if I am going to use a particular lens to photograph people, sharpness can be overrated. Between yourself and that fella Roger over at Lens rentals I find you both to be spot on in your assessments. A week with a rental and I have enough to decide if its a good fit for me.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the nice feedback, and it sounds to me like you have a smart system for making an informed decision for yourself.
@bddt3268 Жыл бұрын
wrong info
@bddt3268 Жыл бұрын
Read the notes: *8 is Radial value, not resolution value; #9 is Tangential value, not contractual value. If you don't understand the meaning of MTF chart, please shut up, don't misleading others.
@Bayonet18093 жыл бұрын
One also has to be careful when reading mtf charts, especially in Sony's at f/8, not to forget that manufacturers will often not consider diffraction in their calculations (and yes, most mtf charts are calculated rather than tested, except those from Zeiss and Leica). The consequence of this is that the Sony lenses at f/8 are not as sharp as their mtf would lead you to believe.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I think that is overselling the impact of diffraction at F8. Even a 50MP camera sensor is just starting to see the effects of diffraction at F8 (F6.7 is the diffraction point for the Alpha 1), so the impact is extremely minimal.
@Bayonet18093 жыл бұрын
@@DustinAbbottTWI If you want to see an example of diffraction's impact at moderate apertures in mtf charts then look up the datasheet for the Leica APO-Summicron-SL 35/2. Notice how the mtf is higher wide open at f/2 than stopped down to f/5.6, let alone f/8. This is because Leica actually takes diffraction into account in their charts, unlike Sony, Canon, et al.
@bobsykes3 жыл бұрын
The comment is absolutely correct. Hasselblad also provides measured MTF charts which reflect diffraction, along with Leica and Zeiss as stated below. Using the XCD 45mm f/4 P lens I can easily see the reduction in contrast and especially micro contrast at f/8 as compared to wide open at f/4.
@MBraun32 жыл бұрын
Very Interesting, thanks for the new knowledge I gained!
@DustinAbbottTWI2 жыл бұрын
My pleasure!
@metphmet3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video and great conclusion. . Some manufacturers present MTF with higher frequencies than 30. It is important to pay attention to this when comparing lenses from different manufacturers. Most of the available charts are wide open. Stopping down by one stop can change the things.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I've seen very, very few MTF charts at higher lp/mm rates that don't include 30.
@metphmet3 жыл бұрын
@@DustinAbbottTWI For example Zeiss gives 10,20 and 40
@chrisgrylls91323 жыл бұрын
Thanks for a very useful, simplified explanation of MTF charts. Whilst I had some understanding, this really cemented it for me. Well done!!
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@bddt3268 Жыл бұрын
Read the notes: *8 is Radial value, not resolution value; #9 is Tangential value, not contractual value. If you don't understand the meaning of MTF chart, please shut up, don't misleading others.
@aliendroneservices66213 жыл бұрын
"Modulation Transfer Function or "MTF" is a measurement of the optical performance potential of a lens. ... A MTF chart plots the contrast and resolution of a lens from the center to its edges against a "perfect" lens that would transmit 100% of the light that passes through it."
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I do think that its time to see the 50 lines pair standard introduced, as a lot of lenses are charting pretty close to the "perfect" standard at 30 LP
@MLee-vcrr3 жыл бұрын
Great video Dustin. Very easy to understand...simple and plain.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@HectorSuzy3 жыл бұрын
Really helpful and good knowledge! Thanks Dustin!
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@DirkDien3 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot Dustin, this was really interesting! Did not know about the contrast lines at all.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad I helped out. That's not the technical name for the dotted line, but that is the real world outcome.
@Hdden-Beauty Жыл бұрын
Really helpful thanks!
@DustinAbbottTWI Жыл бұрын
Glad it helped!
@94Ninsound943 жыл бұрын
You just missed out on doing with Fujifilm MTF charts that I find hard to read and interestingly had a 15 and 45lines/mm charts with sagittal and méridional lines (that honestly got me confused). I think Sony is doing a great job making it simple. Thanks for the educational video and I hope you'll get to review Fujifilm new 23 and 33mm 1.4 in a near future.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I do plan to review the new Fuji's when I get a chance.
@bddt3268 Жыл бұрын
Read the notes: *8 is Radial value, not resolution value; #9 is Tangential value, not contractual value. If you don't understand the meaning of MTF chart, please shut up, don't misleading others.
@K9malinois_dog_love3 жыл бұрын
Amazing tutorial brother I really appreciate it . wow 🤩
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
My pleasure
@cameraprepper79383 жыл бұрын
I hope that more manufactures of Lenses will show MTF of 50lp/mm and more and show at least 3 different apertures, full aperture, 2 and 4 stops, fx 2.0 4.0 and 8.0, a forth showing the best aperture setting will be very nice.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I do agree that it's time to move to a higher standard that is more representative of where today's lenses and sensors are.
@aliendroneservices66213 жыл бұрын
There's still manufacturing variance, so you need to test your own copy of the lens.
@cameraprepper79383 жыл бұрын
@@aliendroneservices6621 Only in cheap Lenses, not much in better quality Lenses !
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
@alien - I agree, but that only helps if you understand the baseline of MTF to have a reasonable expectation of performance.
@inkpapers-13 жыл бұрын
Enjoyable and informative Dustin! Thanks!
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@LevAizik13 жыл бұрын
Finally I understand how to read MTF charts. Thank you, Dustin
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Mission accomplished.
@bddt3268 Жыл бұрын
Read the notes: *8 is Radial value, not resolution value; #9 is Tangential value, not contractual value. If you don't understand the meaning of MTF chart, please shut up, don't misleading others.
@BTEguitardude8 ай бұрын
When people talk about a lens being about to "resolve" a camera's resolution. What exactly are they talking about? Who knows if they will make an adapter for it, or if I'd actually do it, but if I wanted to adapt E mount lenses to GFX 100s Camera. How can I go about seeing if a lens will "resolve".
@DustinAbbottTWI8 ай бұрын
As resolution climbs the flaws of any lens are exposed as those flaws cover more pixels. Just about any lens looks pretty good at 20MP or so, but as resolution climbs many lenses start to look softer. The most demanding at the moment is Fuji's 40MP APS-C sensor, which is actually like the equivalent of a over 90MP on full frame and over 150MP on medium format.
@tgchism2 жыл бұрын
Very useful! Always nice to learn something new!
@DustinAbbottTWI2 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@ILaxative3 жыл бұрын
I love the info here but i cant get pass how sharp this video looks. Please what camera and lens was used here. I subscribed just for that alone.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Sony Alpha 1 and 135mm F1.8 GM - kind of hard to beat that combo!
@ILaxative3 жыл бұрын
@@DustinAbbottTWI lol wow. I might dump my c300 mkiii and get it 😂
@oconobee3 жыл бұрын
A useful and informative video Dustin, thanks for sharing. I understand it's a very simplified overview of the data presented but gives a better understanding on how to read them now.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@bddt3268 Жыл бұрын
Read the notes: *8 is Radial value, not resolution value; #9 is Tangential value, not contractual value. If you don't understand the meaning of MTF chart, please shut up, don't misleading others.
@plutonium515610 ай бұрын
@@bddt3268if you can't spell correctly, please shut up
@christerappelgren16653 жыл бұрын
One of your best!
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@stjepanjina3 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot!
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@stans52703 жыл бұрын
MTF charts were the KZbin lens review videos of the 20th century. I remember that was basically the ONLY stats that you got in the 1980s.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
LOL - I'm glad that has improved!
@stevesvanderpool86533 жыл бұрын
So useful!
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad you think so!
@ronaldt34222 жыл бұрын
Check out the GM 400mm f2.8. The MTF chart shows a perfect score
@DustinAbbottTWI2 жыл бұрын
That is a stunningly good lens.
@Zunidrap3 жыл бұрын
Very useful. Thanks, Dustin! Do you have plans to review the new TAMRON 18-300mm F/3.5-6.3Di III-A VC VXD? I was excited for that as an all-in-one travel lens, but reviews have started coming out in Japan and it doesn't look so great. I can't understand Japanese but the MTF chart explains a lot. :D
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I'm expecting one soon for review.
@Zunidrap3 жыл бұрын
@@DustinAbbottTWI That's really good news!
@luomoalto2 жыл бұрын
Lens designer here. Some of this explanation is wrong. At 7:07 minutes: the dotted lines are not “contrast”. The solid and dotted lines are sagittal and meridional NOT resolution and contrast. Green lines are 30 cycles and red are 10. You can call those contrast and resolution respectively.
@DustinAbbottTWI2 жыл бұрын
Using the terms sagittal and meridional are not really relevant to your average audience, so you always have to find the balance between the technical and relevant in this type of forum. I don’t think that I specifically said that the solid and dotted lines WERE resolution and contrast, though I did say that the distance between them is a reliable indicator of contrast.
@rongdoimau3 жыл бұрын
Very helpful. Thank you
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@AlexanderCornel3 жыл бұрын
Thank you 🙏
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
You’re welcome 😊
@viruspolly3 жыл бұрын
Excellent explanation. love it.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@carlosnunes57173 жыл бұрын
Well done, very useful, thanks
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
You are welcome!
@Pidrittel4 ай бұрын
Your explanation of what the dotted and solid lines are is not really correct as far as I understand it: As described in the footnote, it is the distinction between sagittal and meridional image plane, which also is why the curves always start at the same value since sagittal and meridional are the same on-axis(google "sagittal vs meridional" to get visuals on what that means). Therefore, a difference between solid and dashed curves indicates different resolution in light rays following those planes in the imaging system and the difference is then manifested in aberrations like astigmatism or a similar non-symmetric aberrations. Also, contrary to what you said, both curves indicate a contrast as the y-axis represents the contrast of a feature of the corresponding resolution (10 or 30 LP/mm)...
@DustinAbbottTWI4 ай бұрын
You may have missed the point of this video: it is to show the practical application of MTF charts as it relates to real world performance. I look at the MTF charts for hundreds of lenses as a part of my reviews, and practically they function in the way that I have described...which I verify through real world tests.
@eaae63803 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot for the video. Overall, it was extremely useful. I think some parts of the video can be a bit confusing for technically minded people. I don't know if anybody brought it up, but the converging lines (sagittal and meridional) means less astigmatism, thus it causes increase in contrast as a result as well as more balanced background blur. Maybe you could mention astigmatism, anybody who uses glasses would know the term. To be fair, if you make it more technical you could lose some of the audience. Even lens manufacturers do no not properly explain what these lines mean, and they often lack proper legends (i.e. Canon charts).
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I debated getting into astigmatism, but settled on just using the terms sharpness and contrast for simplicity sake.
@marleenvandam6931 Жыл бұрын
Very helpful! Just wondering the MTF carts can be used cross brands and compared as well? Is this testing standardised trough different brands?
@DustinAbbottTWI Жыл бұрын
Yes and no. Not every manufacturer does the same lines per mm, so you need to watch for that. The most common combination is 10 l/mm and 30 l/mm, though Fuji uses 15 l/mm and 45 l/mm, and I've seen as high as 50 l/mm from some. I mostly disregard the 10 or 15 l/mm figures, as that assumes a much lower resolution point than modern cameras. The 30 l/mm is more relevant. Essentially the higher the l/mm rating, the more demanding the MTF chart as it assumes a higher resolution. If you mentally account for these variances, you can make a decent cross brand comparison.
@marleenvandam6931 Жыл бұрын
@@DustinAbbottTWI Thanks for great work!
@jakepaddyfield47673 жыл бұрын
Big thanks! Now I have an idea...
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad I could help!
@rlast1233 жыл бұрын
You talk about lines per mm (sigma) and line PAIRS per mm (Sony). That is a factor of 2 difference! I’m confused now 😬 But thanks for your great reviews!
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
It's line pairs for both.
@davidmossman96763 жыл бұрын
Great information! Is there any way to relate these tables to these new sensors with 40, 50, 100 mp?
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Hi David, I do think that they should update to a 50 lines/pair standard, but in the meantime you can extrapolate somewhat from the difference between the 10 lp/mm and 30 lp/mm. Carry that on, and you can at least make an educated guess. My experience in real world use, though, is that a sharp lens will at least appear even sharper on a high resolution body. A good lens is a good lens, period.
@timelesstruths3 жыл бұрын
Super informative.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@duchu19873 жыл бұрын
So, new Tamron 28-75 G2 will be sharp as hell!
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
That's very true.
@paololarocca76843 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the interesting video Dustin, it seems that lens performance is getting better and better…not really related to this, do you have any news from kamlan? I am enjoying quite a lot their 21mm 1.8 on fuji, but it seems that they haven’t released the 32mm which they had announced in February, I hope this is only due to the COVID and that the company is doing well, I also wish that they make other 1.4/1.8 lenses….
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I had a bit of a bad experience with Kamlan on a business level, and it has (unfortunately) soured our relationship. I haven't heard from them since the release of the 50mm F1.0 II
@paololarocca76843 жыл бұрын
sorry to hear that...
@artmaltman2 жыл бұрын
Great bokeh in the opening scene. Creamy background. What lens?
@DustinAbbottTWI2 жыл бұрын
Sony Alpha 1 with Sony 135mm F1.8 G Master. A pricy combo, unfortunately!
@Lesterandsons3 жыл бұрын
👍
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@ZOB43 жыл бұрын
Love your videos Mr. Abbott, but what you explain an MTF chart showing and what it's actually showing (particularly with the Sony charts) is not correct.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Care to be more specific?
@bddt3268 Жыл бұрын
Read the notes: *8 is Radial value, not resolution value; #9 is Tangential value, not contractual value. If you don't understand the meaning of MTF chart, please shut up, don't misleading others.
@DustinAbbottTWI Жыл бұрын
Yes, you've cleared things up for everyone. I do understand exactly what you are saying, and I do know how to read MTF charts, but I'm trying to make that knowledge more accessible to the tens of thousand of photographers who don't understand them. Radial, tangential, and contractual are not words that are going to help that cause.
3 жыл бұрын
4:44 Wow! Dustin, you're not even close when comparing 10 lp/mm and 30 lp/mm to the resoultion of R6 and R5. Sorry to say it, but now it's obvious - you completly don't understand these units. Please, re-educate yourself in this area before you want educate others. Let me know if you need help or clarification.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
I'm speaking in broad strokes here to simplify things for those who don't understand MTF charts at all. The truth of the matter is that manufacturers should probably move to a 50lp/mm standard to better reflect modern lens capabilities.
3 жыл бұрын
@@DustinAbbottTWI 30 lp/mm is still enough to compare lenses. But you're wright... Manufacturers should move to 50 lp/mm or even 60 lp/mm.
@DustinAbbottTWI3 жыл бұрын
Agreed.
@kistovisback3 жыл бұрын
Try again, maybe you weren't condescending enough :)
@longrider95513 жыл бұрын
@@kistovisback A sure sign Mr. A is at the top of the trusted lens reviewers, the pseudo experts who know everything except how to create something beautiful start to show up. They spend all day spanning the forums to show us how smart they are. They fail to realize the easiest form of knowledge to acquire is to regurgitate someone else's original thought . When they start quoting from Leica and Hasselblad forums you know they also got sucked in by the marketing of those cameras companies that sell you a lifestyle more than a camera. Folks wearing scarfs and writing in fountain pens while sipping expresso in a sidewalk café are very powerful motivators to a certain segment of the population. Once they bite on the religion they have to then justify their superiority by looking down their nose at the common folk who just shoot weddings and their dogs. Mr. A you have my respect and are one of only 2 channels I agreed to support as a patron, Thank You for all your fine work Mr. A, your an A+ in my book