Dutch Bishops conference rejects “cowardly document” Fiducia Supplicans,no blessings for couples.

catholicherald...

[@K.P.777]

I am so happy as a Dutch Catholic 🎉❤👍👍👍

[@soniavadnjal7553]

👍😀

[@Beanbag777]

Very unusual I always assumed the Dutch were ripping liberals . Maybe that’s not the case

[@AndrewLane-pm2ro]

God bless the Dutch bishops!

[@Dabhach1]

If even the Dutch are having trouble with it, then you know you've gone too far.

[@universalflamethrower6342]

Kinda surprising being from The Netherlands. Last week my local Bishop was in our Church and he lead the service, he actually did all the readings leaving nothing out of it , he also did a very nice Homily and his singing was not to bad either. The mass is not entirely Latin but mostly so this was no small feat in my estimation. I guess I am kinda lucky and Blesesed having a Latin service nearby and also being in the fortunate circumstances that Holland in general having gone far off the liberal end we know exactly what it means.

[@DoubleDogDare54]

If James Martin was correct in 2013 on the percentage of clergy who are themselves homosexual, that would explain the Vatican's putting this document out while gaslighting the laity and bishops on the wording simply being misunderstood. Uh - no. It is NOT being misunderstood at all.

[@ablarod948]

That's the problem. FS is a document for the homosexuals in the priesthood. It is a self-serving document, issued without regard to faithful Catholics who have to fight hard in this world to uphold Catholic Christian teaching.

[@mikazoftstrom2343]

@@ablarod948it’s without regard for the Church’s mission, to lead souls to God and be clear and concise in doing so.

[@CL-un9gg]

@@ablarod948personally, I think it’s a deliberate acceleration of ‘the great falling away’ for the implementation of ‘one world religion’ 😮

[@jonibird6126]

Praise God for loyal priests try to the Gospel of Christ.

[@jowr2000]

Good for them. 👍

[@aseeker2109]

I am now a Dutch Catholic... 🙏🙏🙏

[@anitaklara7428]

Also bishops from Poland has rejected it!

[@tomthx5804]

Just to be clear, only one bishop called the document "cowardly", not the whole bishops conference. Bishop Mutsaerts was the one calling it cowardly (which is is) but Mutsaerts has been quite critical of Francis for a long time. But overall, great news from Holland, and quite unexpected.

[@thecatholicman]

Indeed and the other bishops don’t disagree with him

[@spykezspykez7001]

Sometimes it only takes one brave fella to say what everyone’s got in their hearts but is afraid to say it. Perhaps the lesson here is sometimes be bold, take the initiative, lead...

[@fr.hughmackenzie5900]

@@thecatholicman Don't think you can be sure of that ... just that they recognised that the document in contradictory (FS31 vs FS5), and are salvaging an encouragement to be kind and bless individually (Nigeria and in effect Weigel, Horn, and Fr Mark Goring --- and even the Pope in a retreating interview -- have done something similar).

[@thecatholicman]

@@fr.hughmackenzie5900 priests couple always bless any individual who was looking for Gods blessing. The church didn’t need this document and those celebrating it are the same groups who are looking more changes. Fr James Martin rang a gay man and asked if he wanted his marriage blessed

[@fr.hughmackenzie5900]

@@thecatholicman I agree entirely. Just not the we can know that the Dutch Bishops don't disagree with the "cowardly" label of your title, as your previous comment affirmed.

[@jeanierussell201]

Wonderful!

[@CJ-pt4ku]

God bless the Dutch bishops.

[@melindedemmers264]

Miracles still happen! 🤗👏🏽💪🏼 May God bless 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 all people of good will and may God Almighty deliver us from the evil scourge currently enveloping this world.

[@pilgrim3387]

That's good coming from the Netherlands, considering they are into everything and anything there

[@smitrotti]

Deo gratias! The gates of hell shall not prevail. In the end, Mary's Immaculate Heart will triumph, the Holy Spirit will renew the face of the Earth, and Our Lord, Jesus Christ, will be the Lord and King of ALL mankind! Quis ut Deus?

[@gerrymccarthy9568]

Bravo Dutch Bishops. Lord Jesus by this sign of fidelity to you, make it so the FAITH once again flourishes in the Netherlands.

[@antoinettedavid2826]

Thank you all the Dutch Bishops.🙏

[@smithcatholicart3450]

It’s surprising you say “well done.” The Church is certainly being tested, but the test is obedience. The document contains no shred of error, only reaffirming Church teaching and requiring nothing of the priest, but offering optional guidance to deal with certain situations. The global reaction points to the real issue - whether or not people like Pope Francis and want him as their pope. Those who do not have failed the test of love, fidelity and obedience. They have failed to recognize what all of scripture, tradition, the saints, and history firmly attest - that regardless of what the pope appears to be to our blind human reason, he is the Head, the Shepherd, the Captain, King, God’s Anointed, the Vicar of Christ. He - always chosen by God and inseparable from his office - is the rock on which Christ founded His Church. Those who don’t love, defend, and hear him as though he is Christ ignore the most basic, foundation of our faith, enumerated countless times in scripture, the lives of saints, and which is THE thing that distinguishes Catholics through history. When man listens to doubt and suspicion (seeds of the enemy), he loses the light of the intellect to recognize his own error. If this schism against the Holy Father grows and culminates in an overthrow of the papacy, with man taking it into his own hands to choose a pope of his own liking, you can bet that one will be the Antichrist. The test is ALWAYS between the human will and God’s Will. As Jesus points out in scripture, those who ‘think they see’ and ‘lean on their own understanding’ instead of being obedient like children, sheep, soldiers, loyal subjects, good servants, etc; simply repeat the same error of Lucifer, Adam, the Pharisees and everybody else who is unwilling to mortify his own reasoning.

[@jmjrosary4697]

The nickname of Cardinal Fernandez is Tucho which means MONKEy...as in ape that Bishop Fulton Sheen wrote about the ape of the Church...the counter Church. Very significant under the Current circumstances...

[@briandelaney9710]

That’s a bizarre random Thing to say

[@kathypetersen7558]

Praise the Lord

[@habibak.6234]

Wow, I could have expected this from the Bishops' Conferences of any other EU country, except the Flemish Bishops, but not the Netherlands! I know that Bishop R. Mutsaerts made one of the best statements against the infamous FS, and I was even worried that he would end up in trouble, but wow, I'm glad to hear that the Bishops' Conference has rejected this sacrilegious document. This news is like a balm on my heart. May Almighty God remember these bishops for their courageous stand.

[@davidlgray]

That IS interesting!

[@jonibird6126]

TRUE

[@Beanbag777]

Robert can or did you do a video about the Irish bishops response to this . I haven’t heard what they said . Thanks

[@dbf360]

They have said squat bar the pretend archbishop in dublin

[@FrStephenImbarrato]

How disingenuous Robert. Shame on you. The Dutch bishops are in complete agreement with FS. Why not read the short letter line by line. And tell me Robert, how does FS define “couple?” Same way as the Dutch. His sad. And to editorialize this as “cowardly” for clickbait? You are cowardly and disingenuous.

[@WT-Sherman]

As Fr Corapi used to say. - “I’m not going to hell for anybody ! “

[@ryanscottlogan8459]

Wow this is mind blowing!😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲

[@DannyLoyd]

The bible is our standard for authority, John 16:13 Jesus tells the apostles, " When the Spirit of truth comes, he will GUIDE YOU INTO ALL THE TRUTH". How much is all? Jude 3, " contend for the faith which was ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS". 2 Peter 1:3 " his divine power has granted to us ALL THINGS that pertain to life and godliness...". 2 Timothy 3:16 " All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete." Col 4:12 " stand mature and fully assured in all the will of God". Col 1:25 " I became a minister according to the divine office which was given to me for you, to MAKE THE WORD OF GOD FULLY KNOWN." Phil 4:9 " What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, DO, and the God of peace will be with you".

[@joseph_mta5840]

Never expected this from the Dutch. Aren’t they notorious for liberal Catholicism? Maybe Our Lady of All Nations claimed her turf.

[@challengable]

Presently we are in a epochal period. The mortal leader of God’s only Church on Earth is contradicting Christ. This poor Pope is now in the history books as promoting the faithful to sin openly with no personal amendment. Poor man. Pray for his soul. He doesn’t seem to care how much trouble he’s in when eternal damnation is on his horizon.

[@theien5929]

AMAZING

[@edwinbartolome7529]

Congratulations bishop a very big Salute to u I All bishops urge Francis to withdraw the Lbgt blessings document and Step down

[@tvirus62]

Michael Lofton is laughing at you all that are spinning the positive response to FS as negative. The Dutch bishops supports affirming FS of not blessing the unions but blessing couples as individuals / persons as stated by FS ! God bless those who claims to be confuse to slander Pope Francis for their stupidity and know not what they do ! Unless ofcourse cant bless stupid also ! 😂😂😂

[@markjoslin9912]

US Bishops where are you? Are you spineless? Or all Martin cohorts.

[@M5guitar1]

Bishop Strickland defended the faith by saying we can't bless sin, and he was persecuted by evil men shortly before the release of this anti-gospel document. Let's not be naiive.

[@gabrielsaad2785]

Hallelujah. Thank you Lord.

[@kimlersue]

HURRAH....FOR THE DUTCH BISHOPS!!!

[@leoniea138]

Who is going to tell the Priest that he is gay and would like a blessing . You don't see that happen .

[@AugustineRongngi]

Thank you Dutch Bishops

[@buffuzo4201]

I am surprised and pleased. Unfortunately there is a very long road ahead with the plentitude of Bolshevik Cardinals and Bishops attempting to steer the Church.

[@johanclaeys9627]

I hope the Flemish bishops will soon follow! 🙄

[@O_Rei]

Wait, was there really any Irish Bishop instructing his Priests not to bless ss “couples”? Even Phonsie disappointed everyone and caved in by calling FS a “gift”…

[@thecatholicman]

Yes there is division in Ireland, which is why Irish Bishops conference Isn’t able to issue a joint statement as they don’t agree.

[@colmoneill191]

Some gifts are unneeded and unwanted......

[@eflanders3805]

Bless the soul, not the union!

[@eflanders3805]

@@thecatholicman A "joint statement" is now not needed. Bless the sinner, not the sin. Period. Move on.

[@thecatholicman]

@@eflanders3805 indeed, sadly many Bishops are following the world not Christ

[@Kelpie119]

Great - bit of good news for a change 😊

[@basselelias7082]

It is time to cancel this feducia supplicans document

[@joshanderson8566]

Their statement doesn’t at all reject the document.

[@thecatholicman]

How so? they are refusing to bless any couples.

[@joshanderson8566]

@@thecatholicman they said the samething as FS in a more condensed version. Their document says nothing about couples. I'll reading again, but the word couples doesn't appear. Michael Lofton did a good breakdown were he actually reads them side by side.

[@thecatholicman]

@@joshanderson8566 Mícheál Lofton can’t think outside his own paradigm that a cardinal can’t be in error. Give him 10 years to see the truth. Listen to the 000s of Bishops who are not implementing this document of blessing couples.

[@joshanderson8566]

@@thecatholicman The statement issued by the Dicasteryfor the Doctrine of the Faith Fiducia Supplicans Fiducia supplicans on 18 December last, highlighted the importanceof accompaniment in the Church for persons living in a homosexual relationshipand for divorced persons re-married. As our Church is a welcoming Church, theDutch bishops, with Pope Francis, underline the pastoral importance ofcloseness and accompaniment. The bishops' conference notes that the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, in its statement Fiducia Supplicans Fiducia supplicans, holds, inaccordance with Sacred Scripture and the Tradition of the Church, that marriageis only possible between a man and a woman and is indissoluble, and thatirregular relationships of any kind encounter intrinsic moral objections. The Dutch bishopsdo not wish to deny anyone the support and strength of God. It is possible to say a prayer about individualbelievers living in an irregular relationship. What one asksfor in the prayer and the manner in which one prays are important here. In the case of someoneliving in an irregular or homosexual relationship,the ordained minister may say a simple prayeroutside the context of a wedding celebrationor prayer service. In this prayer, God can be askedfor strength and assistance under the invocation of His Spirit, so that he/she may understandGod's will with his/her lifeand continue to grow. This makes it clearin the wording chosen that this is not a blessingor confirmation of an irregular relationshipand also avoids confusion with marriage, which, according to the Catholic Church, can onlybe between a man and a woman. In thisway, prayer can give the strengthto draw near to God and live in accordancewith His intentions for the creation of man and woman and marriage.

[@joshanderson8566]

@@thecatholicman I posted their document. They align themselves with the document.

[@jesusmarywillsaveyou]

They never rejected FS!!! You could've easily read their very brief letter endorsing FS to your audience. You are manipulating the simple context of their words. All they noted, from FS, as did the vast majority of even the African Bishops (including all Bishops who have endorsed FS), is that FS permits blessing the INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THE RELATIONSHIP (i.e. 'couple': two individual people, e.g. two girls playing marbles). This simple, starightforward interpretation is what we have been arguing at length against you dissenters of the pope since 18 Dec, and which Pope Francis and Cdnl Fernandez have repeatedly reiterated at length. As a matter of fact, go read all the letters from the Nigerian, Kenyan, Southern African, Zimbabwean etc. Catholic Bishops Conference to see they each interpreted FS in the same way AND endorsed it's orthodoxy!

[@FollowerOfChrist-mp6ph]

Agree 100%.

[@Chispaluz]

They didn’t reject it. They just accurately read the document.

[@28-r8b]

God bless them

[@flaviomanderioli643]

Good news!!!

[@patrick.7326]

JESUS I TRUST IN YOU

[@videonmode8649]

Glad to see that the bishops are in agreement with the FS document :)

[@FollowerOfChrist-mp6ph]

Hm... Has anyone here actually READ FS? Based on a majority of the comments, I'd say no. In that case, I would suggest that you read it and then compare it with the Dutch Bishops statement. You may be surprised.

[@thecatholicman]

I read it carefully. It’s confusing and pointless

[@phylk4683]

I just read the link you provided on what the Dutch Bishops are refusing to do and it sounds like they are refusing to bless same sex couples. The article presents a problem though and that is - are they refusing to bless same sex monogamous couples or irregular relationships couples? For example straight ppl can and do engage in irregular relationships while gay ppl can and do engage in solely monogamous relationships. Are the bishops refusing to bless gay couples or are they refusing to bless couples who aren’t necessarily getting married for the purpose of marriage - which includes heterosexual marriages? Monogamous gay couples can and do stay monogamous and married - I don’t see why they shouldn’t be given a blessing. Not only that but as I understand it the document leaves it in the hands of the priest to bless a couple - therefore the priest most likely knows the gay couple enough to approve a blessing. Likewise what right has anyone got to say you can’t get a blessing invoking Gods love and support? How many heterosexual couples are refused marriage because one of them has been married before? I know of one young man whose wife was unfaithful and left him and he met another woman and they requested to get married and he was refused marriage by the local priest! So what did this couple do? They went to another priest who married them. Now are they accepted by God or not? We can’t have supermarket Catholics as you put it. This couple has a child and they have had their child given communion and confirmation and yet I don’t see anyone objecting to this. Where are the real Catholics to call out this child as a product of a marriage that isn’t blessed by God. (Of course I don’t believe in that at all - I believe Jesus was enough of an example of what Christianity means than what some of today’s pious and devout Catholics are). The problem I feel we have is acceptance. Where are the discussions on gay ppl? On gay families? Where is the acknowledgment that the man who donated his kidney to you was a gay man? Or that the excellent and caring nurse tending to you is a lesbian? Did God not bring them into your life? What have they done that has caused your contempt when they are behaving like a good people some more Christian than the devout pious themselves. Sometimes I think gay ppl are the truly blessed ones - because their cross is much harder to carry than any heterosexual Christian or Catholic who’s gotten too comfortable in their faith to know what suffering and penance is. The annual 40 days and nights for Lent is enough for the heterosexuals while it’s a life time for gay ppl). How much more of a life in imitation of Christs can there be than a person forever condemned for their sexuality and with no hope given? I could he a devout Catholic, possibly a priest or monk, someone who upholds the standards and is pious and I’d still be gay. I don’t think ppl understand that. I knew I was gay before the age of 5. I wasn’t told it I knew it and no it isn’t a sexual thing - but ppl, sometimes the “Christians”, make it a sexual thing only. I’m monogamous too - in fact my partner lives in another country because we can’t afford a house or rent. Am I to believe that’s God and Blessed Virgin keeping us apart? And I’ll reiterate - irregular relationships can be heterosexual too. Irregular relationships don’t tend to want to get married. But monogamous gay ppl do deserve Gods attention as well. Jesus helped the lepers - something the temple and church teachings said not to do. But Jesus was compassionate, merciful, caring, loving and forgiving. Maybe some religious need to feel better by condemning others. Not very Christian though.

[@loophole123]

I think that FS is purporting to support irregular sexual relationships. If I read your comments I don’t think that is you

[@dbf360]

Boom. Boom

[@bengoolie5197]

anti-pope bergoglio?

[@markgordon5387]

What will the Dutch do, when the Pope pronounces The Dutch Catholic Church as Anathema?

[@363catman]

You answered your own question - start the Dutch Catholic Church.

[@MexicanMashka]

Yay!!! Thank you for the news!

[@Chispaluz]

FS 38 “In a brief prayer preceding this spontaneous blessing, the ordained minister could ask that the INDIVIDUALS have peace, health, a spirit of patience, dialogue, and mutual assistance-but also God’s light and strength to be able to fulfill his will completely.”

[@chrissobolewski5509]

If anyone has access to the official written statement by the Dutch Bishops, I would welcome reading it thoroughly. In following many podcasts on FS, the “journalists” have been economical with the Truth. Pax Christi

[@magikarp2063]

They didn't reject the document at all, is this a joke? All they did is implement it and explain it as best they could.

[@magikarp2063]

Also why is a link to some article posted instead of simply giving the primary source?

[@thecatholicman]

Check the description of the video link quoted

[@julietaclarasuarez2356]

Interestingly, the Dutchare quite liberal but say no to same sex couple blessing. I go too for individual prayer with and for. . .

[@NoraDespard]

Objectively liberal, but the dutch are subjectively more conservative.

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

So sad to see the Dutch Bishops shut the door on Love. Fiducia Supplicans is nowhere close to blessing same-sex couples, but pride can skew the heart of many a man. I agree with you Robert, this is dividing the Church, but this is merely the proverbial straw that will break the Church's back. A schism is inevitable. Pray for those who will leave the Church out of pride of knowing more than the Holy Spirit does. They will be placing their eternal salvation in peril.

[@thecatholicman]

The document is confusing and unnecessary

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

@@thecatholicman I wouldn't agree that it was unnecessary. This is merely a foretaste of what is to come. The past few years have all been deliberate, all for the purposes of eventually implenting an agenda. In October, at the at the final Synod on Synodality, I believe the end result will be the Ordination of Women Deacons, Permission for Priests to Marry and of course, Blessing of Same-Sex Unions (not marriage, but some sort of recognition of the love the two hold for each other). Fiducia Supplicans was simply a “softening up” if you will, to test the waters, before the changes come officially sometime next year. Unfortunately, the Vatican horibly messed up the way in which it was carried out in that they did not supply the proper theological explanations for authorizing such blessings.

[@ablarod948]

Love? This document is not about love. It is in fact quite the opposite. It is not love to lead people away from holiness and sanctity and eternal life. And the Church can not abandon it's mission and then claim it is still the true church, and that you can judge those who leave this "church" as putting themselves in peril of eternal damnation. What a hateful, ignorant thing to assert.

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

@@ablarod948 Well, in a way you’ve proven my point when I said, “The Vatican horribly messed up the way in which it was carried out in that they did not supply the proper theological explanations for authorizing such blessings.” They did not properly catechize the faithful and your comment reflects that. If you had been catechized properly on the proposed changes, eventually you would/will react in one of two ways: 1. You would/will leave the Church or, 2. You would/will accept the Church’s new teaching on homosexuality and remain with the Church Christ founded and the one He promised to protect until the end of time. When it all comes out, there will be one of only two ways to go. My comment was not meant to be hateful or ignorant but simply informative. Please make no mistake about it, there will be a schism.

[@ablarod948]

I think you might be the one who is not properly catechized and in truth this is part of the Catholic Church's failure. It has not taught the faith since Vatican II as it is required to do. The Church cannot change its teaching on homosexuality and still remain the Church. If it does so, then it is a different Church and a new religion, not Christianity. The Pope can't simply decide what is or is not Christianity. His job is to pass on the faith given to the Apostles by Jesus Christ which does not include same sex blessings. Take your cue from Jesus Christ, not Pope Francis. @@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370

[@eflanders3805]

Pope Francis leads the Catholic Church...NOT the homosexuals, nor the disgruntled anti-authoritarian few! Thank you, Pope Francis. I believe this document includes mention that Bishops are not to alter. As well, this document says to bless and move on. You rabble-rousers are doing neither. Shame!

[@denisbyrne5642]

Heaven has strict imagration laws hell has open borders

[@soniavadnjal7553]

You seem to think that "authoritarianism" is a good thing. Where's the concept of synodality all of a sudden? Where's the listening and hearing and discussions we're meant to have? Where's the notion of Francis just being a bishop amongst many? The de-centralization of authority? He and his supporters knew that this would never pass at the synod, so they sprung it on the Church as a fait accompli. What did card. Fernandez say when FS was issued? Basically, "this is final, no explanations will be given".

[@eflanders3805]

@@denisbyrne5642 God the Father has strict laws! And Satan opens the gates of hell!

[@eflanders3805]

@@soniavadnjal7553 In matters of law, doctrine, Faith, or parenting; I do think authoritarianism is a good thing.

[@denisbyrne5642]

​@@eflanders3805if God doesn't do some thing soon he will have to apologise for soddem and gommora