Jordan Peterson Confronts Stephen Fry on “God is an Utter Maniac”

[@jasoncaldwell5627]

A real example of two men with very different political and social viewpoints having a thoughtful and respectful conversation on a topic that has brought people to violence for thousands of years. If American politics worked this way, our nation would be immeasurably better off.

[@Solid_Snoop]

Unfortunately politicians feed off of drama. Being a Scottish man who is bombarded by the silliness of both American and English politics, I completely agree with you.

[@danhalstead705]

It could still be like that, if we remembered our old addages - things like "but words will never hurt me" and "I may not agree with you but I will defend your right to say it" in place of our new ones: "words are violence" and "if you don't understand then I'm not going to explain it to you."

[@BishopJCH]

The problem is in politics is that people have allowed governments to have the power to take resources from one group of people to give to another. In the conversation, neither man loses any resources with an unresolved disagreement. In politics, most often, the minority loses (at a minimum) their money or rights to supply enforcement and execution of someone else's desire.

[@frank480]

The intelligent person is flexible in their beliefs and uses debate to learn and grow. A fool believes they have all the answers and uses debate to force their opinions. The cornerstone of intelligence is the ability to change one's mind.

[@hossumquat]

Here there is respect. Politicians today lack respect and that is what makes them failures.

[@chrislambert505]

As a dyslexic atheist insomniac, I’m often up all night wondering if there is a dog

[@EGC316]

Three sin't.

[@aaronbiglow6573]

😂

[@lavernebell6274]

Thats gold!

[@felipepineda1585]

Very clever!

[@Khempejjer]

Brilliant

[@gammon1183]

Stephen Fry saved my life and he'll never know as we've never met. Found myself watching his programme about bipolar and the next day I changed my doctor and booked a session with a psychiatrist and finally got the help and diagnosis I'd been looking for my entire life. Thanks Stephen 😎

[@pattygould8240]

It would please him to know this. I'm glad for you too.

[@ploppysonofploppy6066]

Similar here in helping me to understand my wife's schizo affected disorder. Bumped into Stephen (almost literally) in Boots at Picadilly Circus. Should I have said something? Just nodded and smiled, think that was right. Still wanted to chat though.

[@MontyVideo969]

Praying is good. But praying and action works better (mostly).

[@eenavid]

well done ,,he is amazing ,,i wonder how many peoples lives have been enriched by him ,,i thought i would give this the usual speed read utube 2 min fix ,,,,but i stayed with the whole thing ,,,

[@vincentsavidge05]

Nice

[@gudrungarzon7083]

A serious discussion between 2 intelligent respectful people ! No insults , no cursing! This is very refreshing!

LOL no.

[@alabastercodefy5636]

One intellectual and one pseudo intellectual

[@mikutho9820]

i dont know what is intelligent about jordan

[@SophiaAphrodite]

JP is intelligent in that he can make you think he is articulate about something he does not even believe. He has done a very good job at learning how to grift on the faith party while not even really being religious.

[@colnuttall9035]

This should be the norm, it's a sad relection upon humanity that it isn't. We can learn much from this.

[@thepoynt]

Two men who disagree on much, having a discussion without talking over each other (much), and taking the time to actually listen to each other. Listening well is perhaps the greatest gift we can give other people, and it's always encouraging to see it happening.

[@joshgreen2164]

Agreed

[@billyranger2627]

Only the calm,collected nature of Stephen forces Peterson to let the message across. As usual, Peterson has nothing to say that he can defend. He lets out ‘there may not be a god’ His aggressive nonsense only impresses those who don’t pay attention. No wonder Peterson has such a following amongst the ill educated. He truly believes in nothing, trlying on his passionate voice to get attention. Listen to few of his talks with intelligent people and u start to wonder how he made it so far. Well done Stephen. Respect.

[@Finderskeepers.]

Its down to manners, respect and a desire to learn from both of them.

[@davvid977]

@@billyranger2627he is not a stupid man but agree his arguments have no substance. All fancy word play with no points being made, unravels when he encounters somehow who knows what they're talking about.

[@billyranger2627]

@@davvid977 u r right. I am at retirement age now. Have spent 3 decades watching all the gains made by people who just wanted good for ALL undone. Media , on the whole, is useless. Internet is being manipulated to keep all interested in shopping,sports and holidays. Breaks me. I am sure many others too. Trumps election there and Johnson across the pond, eased and facilitated by the same media power( 3 families own over 2000 outlets newspapers,radio,tv across the globe ..,) Schools teaching nothing of relevance, university forcing a debt lifestyle on which the modern post capitalist society is thriving. Equity and investment companies moving into residential housing (worldwide), accounting rules will allow them the luxury of keeping ,up to 30% of them vacant if they don’t get their high rents at no loss…… I can go on. Watching Peterson, more eloquent than Trump and his copies coming to power worldwide, makes me sick, angry making the Buddha’s way the only way for me to seek solace. The family feud between the people of the book -Christians Muslims Jews that has dictated the last 1000 years,at least, not seeming to end…." Sorry. I just get angry. Jordans of this world inflict untold damage. Way beyond their capacity to even comprehend. Sad.

[@ryanchristianson7762]

I love how intelligent and non-confrontational Stephen fry is. HIs opinions are his, and he tries to tread carefully when dealing with important topics

[@welshhomegrown934]

It's because they are two intelligent people having a discussion why more people can't do this 😒

[@bazahaza]

@@welshhomegrown934 Only Stephen is intelligent. There is no God, sorry

[@photostudio5861]

@@bazahaza Yes, I actually clicked on because I was surprised that Stephen Fry would talk to a pretentious nitwit like Jordan Peterson.

[@1ServantofThor1]

@@bazahaza whether you like Jordan or not, it is a little silly to say he isn't intelligent. Does he quite often speak on things he isn't expert on? Probably. But to say he isn't intelligent is just a falsehood.

[@thecolofthewild]

Two people who yes are intelligent but also incredibly knowledgeable and articulate and these qualities give way to a wonderful dialogue. Anyone who considers Jordan an authority and in any way intelligent, must be willing to listen and hear his arguments without mindlessly dismissing the outright and logical argument for the evidence for a diety. To do that is stupidity at best and sheer obstinacy at worst.

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

I deeply, and I mean DEEPLY respect two men who can have conflicting ideals and hash them out without savage capriciousness.

[@tjackson010509]

Very well said. I couldn’t agree more

[@andrewausterfield6710]

It's wonderful to see respectful discourse without name calling and entrenchment.

[@paulsmaleThefourthdimension]

That's because these two have evolved to another realm, the only difference is they have evolved in two different directions. The match they are playing out is like a game of tennis, the same game being played out with the majority, and the minority of the entire human race. One side is trying to deceive themselves to win over the other, and the other side is trying to win over self denial and deceit. That is what a psychologist is supposed to do.

[@tmctommygun4696]

Thats a big word that i now know

[@tonybates7870]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I find it really hard to stay reasonable, especially with religious apologists.

[@boragine]

What a pleasure watching two men of opposing views having a decent and respectful conversation. So it's mostly about being humane and decent rather than intellectual.

[@nicojar]

Peterson got spanked in that debate XD

[@boragine]

​@@nicojar, you have missed the content entirely

[@NickSBailey]

​@@boragine no it's true, he was shoehorning all sorts of stuff in talking around the subject and never nailing anything that strengthens his position, just lots of distraction, how does talking about the development of morality from games prove it's out of our hands and inherent, it's the opposite he even said himself if interaction is missing development is impared. surely that weakens the idea it comes from god

[@mandlin4602]

No, Stephen Fry is respectful, Jordan Peterson is screaming and getting triggered. Literally getting emotional because Stephen disagrees with him.

[@boragine]

​@@mandlin4602, I can see your little woke brain melting at every word Peterson utters. Did you have your vegan stake today already?

[@TheXbox360lord]

I think my favourite thing about this discussion is the fact that both men make reference to numerous bodies of work and the other will immediately get the point the other was making because they have also read it and understand the main underlying principles of said work. I feel that it cannot be overstated how cool that is when a healthy discussion plays out like this.

[@bobs8942]

So? Did they answer the question or confirm that "God is an Utter Maniac". And what exactly did you learn from this clip?

[@bannnnner]

If there is a god then its not on a humanic level. To think of the child with a worm in its eye and not the point of view of the worm is predisposed. The think of cancer victims and not the prolific cancer cells is species bias. Its a game on a minor and major scale too vast to grasp any idea of a god

[@mastermill79]

He enjoyed the respectful intelligent back and forth on the topic at hand. There's no popquiz.

[@bobs8942]

@@mastermill79 So... then there was really no "confrontation".

[@Imarida2]

My favorite part was when jordan had no ways of critiquing the quote of Fry.... but jordan knew it hurt his feelings and he didn't like it. Smh. After quoting fry i was expecting peterson to have some sort of critiquing but wow . Nothing

[@muzaffarahmad457]

I come from a place where winning a discussion is done by raising your voice or making fun of your opponent. I find peace in my mind to know that there exist these intellectuals who can discuss ideas and concepts in a civilised manner

[@meelodeshmeeelo2034]

This is exactly how our members of parliament behave in the House of Commons in the UK.

[@josephspiteri6178]

Myzaffar Ahmad. In Malta where I live it is the same story. Healthy arguments are as rare as finding a chunk of gold in a Highway.

[@paul1979uk2000]

The irony is, the moment someone has to raise their voice or make fun of the opponent, they have already lost the argument because people that can't win an argument, usually try to deflect and to try and change the topic of the argument to something else that isn't related to the topic at hand. So take comfort in that when an argument goes that way, you've won that argument and just let them rant like a loon. It also helps if you understand a lot of psychology as it's remarkable how much information people give away by their body language, how they say things and other little hints.

[@mechamahou8467]

It's funny because Jordan resorts to insulting and dismissing those who disagree with him all the time lmao. He has a whole channel where he professionally whines... about intentionally getting himself banned on Twitter lmfao.

[@elizabethshannon24]

AHMAD. These intellectuals discuss various topics out of curiosity, a desire to learn from one another - that is what makes them so interesting. They do not engage in argument (as you call it) in order to win but to learn. Only a proud man wants to win - that is why he will always make a fool of himself. How silly. What is there to win? All you want to do is show off how clever you are or at least show that you are cleverer than the other person and that is just vanity.

[@dante8825]

I find listening to both Stephen Fry and Jordan Peterson to be a very pleasing experience. They're examples of our ability to discuss and disagree using words. Polite words. Polite words and eloquence. We need more of this ability in society.

[@aliasofanalias7448]

It's a natural human reaction to feel insulted when someone disagrees with you, it's also very ignorant and anyone who thinks like that should assess their thought process

[@Clodaghbob]

Civilised.

[@VikingOlberg-NymoenOfNorway]

Amen😅

[@alainmaitre2069]

@@VikingOlberg-NymoenOfNorway Amen ? That is a religious word .

[@VikingOlberg-NymoenOfNorway]

@@alainmaitre2069 Well arent you a true comedian. You cant fix stupid I've heard.

[@imcured]

Fry is being extremely charitable in his responses

[@dizzy_derps]

On those rare occasions when Jordan allows him to get a word in.

[@strphenz]

He is clearly a lot smarter than Peterson

[@SE-tc3cr]

No disrespect to Jordan here but it feels like stephen is counselling a teenager.

[@sids5002]

They are both polite, but one speaks calmly of facts and reason, and the other tries to sound that way, but is disingenuous to preserve his supernatural belief.

[@CleverGirlAAH]

This is the only interview where I've seen Peterson REALLY have to explain every facet of his conclusions. And it's because Fry is WELL aware of the literature that Peterson bases his philosophies on. I would LOVE an in person dialogue between them.

[@Smorans]

I agree, it would be wonderful to see them together, but perhaps with an intermediary, as (though this is one reason I love them both) they can both tend towards getting a little off piste without mild direction lol

[@bertiesaurus]

@@Smorans I think if they had a more structured debate with a preparation for the subject, it would be more focussed and direct, but I think it is equally enjoyable and important to see how different arguments and trains of logic can completely morph the subject of conversation.

[@Smorans]

@@bertiesaurus that’s a very good point. The Munk debate that featured them both was very enjoyable for that reason

[@ekinteko]

It felt like Jordan was being assertive with his claims at first, and Fry who is a well-read intellectual actually digested what was said and picked it apart. And that's why it seemed like Jordan was changing the subject. I'd hate to see how Jordan Peterson would be humiliated by the late Hitchens or perhaps Richard Dawkins.

[@bertiesaurus]

@Sambo Jones ^

[@barqs27]

The way they respect and communicate with each other while having a healthy conversation about a very controversial topic is to be admired.

[@Frederik_uk]

Sorry to respectfully disagree, this wasn't a healthy conversation. Jordon Peterson took a quote out of context and attacked it for being morally wrong. The first half of this is them talking past each other. Jordon Peterson struggles immensely to imagine a world where a god doesn't exist where Stephen fry can easily switch between the two ideologies. When JP lays his arguments about whether we have to make meaning for ourselves or ordained by God, Fry just laughs in his face because it's such a stupid statement. All of his supporting arguments end up being calls to authority, ie god. Something that Stephen already clearly stated he doesn't believe in. I'm gonna have to go back and watch some of those lectures again with a critical ear because fuck there's something really slanted about the things he says today

[@Neil-qg9cw]

Peterson is an intellectual lightweight in comparison to Stephen Fry. Surprised he didn't start crying again like most of his recent conversations. Man lost it after his benzo addiction.

[@Enoch-Root]

Nah, Peterson doesn't respond to people. He goes off on bizarre tangents rather than replying directly. He doesn't communicate well at all when it comes to religion, he just starts spouting word salad.

[@Earthwormjim1981]

@@Frederik_uk saw no attack he started with it which fry knew he was Gona start off with it's a great starter to clarify things

[@Frederik_uk]

@@Earthwormjim1981 Are you deaf? JP starts with a quote which JP presents as Fry's genuine belief and say it's morally wrong. What JP did was attack the straw man. Not grapple with any genuine philosophy. If anyone is interested in a serious conversation about this look at the Cambridge debate on free will with Stephen fry and other genuine philosophers. It's titled: This House Believes Free Will Does Not Exist | Cambridge Union

[@samnowland4679]

I don't ever want this to end. It's so professional, respectful, interesting. Imagine what would happen if more of us could have conversations like this. Especially involving politics and things that could make a real difference in our world.

[@jacdimond]

From a scientific perspective, God couldn't exist because he or she or it would have to go backwards in time and forwards time. Forwards in time is possible under our understanding of time but backwards is improbable due to that same understanding

[@vitorodino8760]

@@jacdimond I don't believe in god, but the laws of physics don't apply to the creator of the universe. To say that "God can't go back in time because our understanding of time suggests that it is impossible" is an invalid argument.

[@adolfrahmer6809]

@@vitorodino8760 who is "the creator of the universe"?

[@jacdimond]

@@vitorodino8760 that's an opinion, not a fact as you cannot prove God is real or not so therefore cannot prove that God is exempt to the laws of physics. Therefore every possible scenario is valid until disproven 😉

[@dundeeguy]

@Justin Gary can i just say that you are not born a christian , you are programmed as a child to be one and to believe in god . I was tought to be a roman catholic . And by the time i was 12 had realised the things that i was told were not actually true and were impossible.

[@polygonalmasonary]

Having disagreements over religion without going to war is something humans still need to learn wholesale. This discussion is rare, not the norm, in my opinion and experience 🤔🙏🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧♥️

[@AkamoriRivals]

This is proof that there is an art to argument, a lost art, that many fail to realize exists. Arguments do not make us enemies. Arguments should strengthen the bonds between two people, and allow us to appreciate one another more based upon the language used between us, as opposed to making enemies of us.

[@oleggorky906]

I would say debating, but yes, I see what you meant. Some people are very good at arguing and finding fault ... but they could never debate like this. You can only fully understand your own point if you have fully taken the opportunity to understand the extent of somebody else’s first.

[@stevodoublel200]

I LOVE debate LOVE IT!

[@mas3nk0ssj77]

I would say discussion, in arguments you try to win, I see discussion as an attempted to understand the other person

[@scarlett_j]

In the meantime Johnn has a contract w/ his boss to slave tomorrow until 1100pm on an extra shift. At the same time the boss will be banging his wife, and John's friend knows who is also sleeping with his wife, and his sister. Of whom 2 agreed to kill John, and 1 wants to kill his wife, so he can have a subbing relationship w/ John's boss. Whom would never agree, but the sub has connections with John's boss his true connection who decides the funds that go to John's boss his company, being the only supplier, and promised him John's wife. John thinking he will get a promotion, while even his sister is neutral and has a relation with their supplier. The real question is would she sell out John, or his wife?

[@steveo1413]

These are highly intelligent men on opposite sides of a belief system. The uncivil vitriol we see from a majority of politicians (left and right) are because they are overwhelming unintelligent, useless, and incompetent fools.

[@papa2ckjb]

This type of discussion is sorely missing in our world today. Two remarkably intelligent men who fundamentaly disagree on a topic but respectfully discuss it.

[@thecolofthewild]

Totally agree with everything you say. We have lost the art, skill and mostly even the will to debate with intelligent debate. So refreshing and stimulating to hear this.

[@ElShmiablo]

How can there be a disagreement over religion? It isn't real. Anybody arguing it is clearly isn't a very intelligent person.

[@Allan-mf1he]

Amazing what happens when you are able to put egotistical pride to the side. Having an understanding that being wrong leads to more correct understanding. I find i difficult sometimes especially if the correction comes from a youth. Appreciated none the less.

[@thecolofthewild]

@@ElShmiablo Religion is very real. I think you're more likely to be questioning the existence of a diety. But this is a huge part of the excellence of this conversation. Rational dialogue, intelligently informed and debating in both directions. It's a wonder to behold. It's not just unsubstantiated arguments but assertions underpinned by evidence on both parts. This is the gross error people fall into. They don't consider the evidence. So they make simplistic and sweeping statements which if challenged they could simply not support or substantiate.

[@planeguy95]

Exactly. If only our politics was carried out in the same way

[@KirstyMcCulloch]

Yes. Adults in conversation. Philosophising. Our planet and people sorely need these kind of contemplations and respectful communications.

[@supercat380]

Correct. These gentlemen are well- educated, honourable and civilized, as opposed to many idiots predominant in this world who talk without logic

[@GhenAurwin]

I love your username. Excellent. And I agree with your comment . Thanks.

[@Vengeance1978]

Bekindtoanimals. Spot on 👍👍👏

[@supercat380]

I totally agree with you! Each person may may his/ her opinion as long as it does not inflict potential harm to the other person eg, being derogative, vulgar, racist or anti- Semitic. Respect for all decent people

[@woulfhound]

Still seems like this conversation went over most people's heads unfortunately...

[@gidsinveenhuizenpuntnl]

The world needs more Fry and less Peterson

[@zjones303]

I don't agree with Peterson but without Petersons, there'd be no need for Frys

[@zjones303]

I guess that's not a bad thing😂

[@gidsinveenhuizenpuntnl]

@zjones303 good point

[@mac7083]

ABSOLUTELY!

[@Dutchman4real]

Peterson is a relatively recent phenomenon ... We have been blessed with Fry for far longer than that. Peterson is just a run of mill 1 episode villain to Fry's Batman

[@babygaga9415]

This is what a thoughtful, mature, sensible conversation is. No demeaning or condescending words against each other. This is an art of communication that is getting lost. Imagine what a better world this would be if ppl could talk to each without all the hatefulness.

[@Sparkpark228]

Because very few people are in the level of intelligence and understanding these two guys have. Unfortunately for us.

[@wasimjasin5485]

@@Sparkpark228 not to forget eloquence and well built vocabulary.

[@geriburrito]

@@Sparkpark228 That's a pedantic opinion. It has nothing to do with intelligence. There's plenty of intelligent discussions on KZbin that are unsufferable. What's outstanding about this conversation is the mutual respect that they have for each other despite their differences. That's what is lacking in our modern culture, the ability to dissasociate ourselves and others from ideas, and this emerges from an ethic or a value, not from an inherited ability such as intelligence.

[@helenwalker5210]

I think they come at this from emotional intelligence, they are listening to each other’s perspective and neither one is pushing from an ego that needs to be “right”

[@redadamearth]

Education and the championing of education and intellectual curiosity has been lost - and social media algorithms are essentially creating cults of misinformation. Most people can't have a conversation like this because they simply lack the education that gives CONTEXT (and specifically, historical context) to ideas. Hence: I disagree with you = violence. At least 75% of the planet couldn't even follow this dialogue. Most people don't even understand *why* they believe what they believe.

[@DrProfX]

Fry is so calm, considerate, smart, articulate, warm and funny!

[@macewindu9635]

Exactly

[@michaelegan6037]

@@macewindu9635 fry is false like the rest of you who believe in him fry loves £££

[@matthewstokes1608]

He’s about as funny as cancer

[@mattsmith9469]

@@cbvagabondThere is no such thing as blasphemy. It is a made up nonsense word about being offended rather than engaging (politely and respectfully) with someone. Plus you can’t offend something that doesn’t exist. Bizarre set of words.

[@mattsmith9469]

@@matthewstokes1608And this post is about as polite, respectful and insightful as the completely unnecessary, childishness that don’t even realise you are showing to all. Are you not embarrassed?

[@toobasaurus23]

A great respectful discussion of opposing views... We need more of this in the world today.

[@AlexandraVioletta]

This is the way I live my whole live and it getting harder every day.

[@neasahayes6044]

Yes both listening to the other without trying to shout each other down which is standard today. And able to listen to the other's POV with the intention of trying to understand rather than prove oneself the victor.

[@seanbrogan2930]

I was brought up by a single mother in an extremely poor area of Edinburgh in the 1980s. My personal early introduction to literacy under my own desire was to read all the Tom Clancy books and all the John Grisham books inside one year by the time I was 15. I then read Crime and Punishment. This book had profound impact on me. It was the first book I read that could be classed as academic or at least philosophical. I felt compelled to read it again, I don’t know why, but by the time I was 21 I had read Crime and Punishment 4 times. I was as fascinated about every aspect of the book and the city it was set in. I now work for a Wall Street firm and studying an MBA part time.

[@troubadour1562]

I love Stephen Fry. Each time I listen to him, I'm staggered by his intellect. The ability to construct arguments as he does quoting references so freely is stunning. I can't remember why I came upstairs 😂

[@robertwright7937]

Was it to get your shoes? I always leave my shoes upstairs, for some reason.😄

[@troubadour1562]

@@robertwright7937 ha. It usually starts me going upstairs for my phone charger, once there I see a shirt that needs hanging up. Then I remember a toilet roll needs replacing in my ensuite bathroom. So I come downstairs to collect a toilet roll. Once downstairs, I check the front door is locked. It isn't so I look for the keys. The place where I keep my keys, is also where I keep my lottery tickets. I see there's a lottery ticket and decide to check it. So far, no phone charger, no toilet roll and front door still unlocked. I could go on but you get the picture ha. Ha.

[@robertwright7937]

@@troubadour1562 I think we're both the same, mate. I was looking for my phone the other day. I was talking on it at the time.🥴👍

[@troubadour1562]

@@robertwright7937 brilliant! 🤣

[@stanleyjackson5963]

Staggered by his mind but don't ypu ask who designed those minds. Simple minds still lost in their human foibles lmao

[@jordancook1668]

Two brilliant men having a conversation. Just a privilege to listen to.

[@dariuszscharsig568]

Absolutely. I enjoyed every minute of the full interview. When those extraordinary men speak, ordinary men like me shut up and listen. With joy ;)

[@jtl909]

Well, one brilliant man. Peterson’s schtick is initially impressive but over the years you realize there’s not much depth there.

[@jeffmaehre7150]

@@jtl909 It was never vaguely impressive to me. He's a raving idiot.

[@moonshoes11]

One brilliant man, and a charlatan.

[@garysnow1475]

And yet if just one were another color...

[@jaygerlach6884]

The entire conversation was an amazing conversation with nothing but mutual respect between both men.

[@decimustv4257]

You are a fool.

[@RodFleming-World]

That's only because Fry realised that his usual bullying strategy would not work and that Peterson is a lot smarter than he is. So he toadied up to him. Utterly ghastly man.

[@RodFleming-World]

@Doge di Amalfi Fry is a schoolyard bully, nothing more. He hates being cut down to size.

[@Vilutusk]

@@RodFleming-World Stephen fry is way more intelligent than Jordan peterson and your pathetic attempt to discredit him doesn't wash with anyone who's not just brainwashed by religion. Furthermore your attempt to paint Fry as anything but an immensely respectful intellectual is just showing how much of an bully you are, and not him

[@RodFleming-World]

@@Vilutusk keep crying, you're amusing.

[@jeffhall2411]

the emotional hurt, that Stephen showed when talking about his resentment about his pain.. i have been there.. i have severe back pain.. and many a time.. i have emotionally lost it due to pain. i felt that on a huge level.

[@coopertrooper87]

This level of calm yet intense,intelligent, respectful and genuinely curious and insightful conversation is absolutely the standard we should all attempt to attain

[@laurencewhite4809]

Not always. There is no god, so why spend time debating it?

[@coopertrooper87]

@@laurencewhite4809 Lol, because thats an opinion not a fact. Facts ypu cant debate, opinions you can. And must!

[@olivernewton8584]

​@laurencewhite4809 spiderman is real, trust

[@danielkelley7548]

Seriously. Yes. Well said

[@eldamahj3977]

That was great to listen to. This is the way a good discussion goes. You consider and accept criticism of your opinion without rancour, and so the conversation can continue, and both are enriched by it. No-one has to win.

[@Crimsonedge1]

Not quite. It was simply the Socratic method at work. The idea being to draw out underlying suppositions and figure out what best fits the empirical data provided by both parties in the debate when all of that empirical data is looked at as a whole. In general, more often than not, one person is right and the other wrong. (occasionally, it turns out to be purely relative and down to a matter of perspective). If they're both clever, the participants both learn something from the exchange. One gets the step up provided by replacing incorrect knowledge with correct knowledge and the other gains conformation in the accuracy of their own knowledge. In that, it is, in a way, about winning. About being right. More importantly, figuring out what is right and what is wrong. It's why people debate to begin with. Its also why so many find it hard to debate without arguing and being salty.

[@graveyardstudio3503]

I think they both won. And we, listeners, got all the spoils as well.

[@nativeam25]

@@graveyardstudio3503 respect is what makes them 50/50 . This is how you communicate & don't lose your self in your ideology & what you identified you self to. God is ever loving & has no form. My opinion not fact.

[@tarhunta2111]

Bullshit.You have to argue your case.Stephen Fry is just being diplomatic because he is a decent guy.I can't stand people like you who think all discussion must be diplomatic and friendly.No.This is what is wrong with the World.

[@zinny999]

We need the full video of this discussion

[@lobintool]

Best quote from Stephen Fry, when he was at school: Teacher: "Stop trying to be clever" Stephen: " Ok . how how stupid do you want me to be?"

[@newtonbelieved]

'So then the question is what is the appropriate attitude, given that the argument that you make is an actually extraordinarily powerful argument, and I don't know the answer to that, but I do know, I think, that resentment and anger, and even the motive that would make you want to say that to God himself I think, that's probably not helpful. I came to that with great difficultly, I've had my reasons to be angry, especially recently, because I am suffering from a lot of pain and it makes me resentful and angry and wanting to shake my fist, but I found on intense consideration that there was nothing in that that didn't make it worse and therefore that must be wrong, even though it's justifiable.' He said this on May 18, 2021. In March 2021 Jordan had his second Saturn return, (activating his natal Saturn-South Node/Mars/Neptune T-square), and Neptune square his Sun, followed in April by Uranus activating the same T-square. Ouch. When you look at the severity of the hard aspects in his and his wife's birth charts you gain a lot of understanding regarding the wisdom of this couple, it is to a large extent wisdom gained from pain. So, here we have two brilliant men completely oblivious about an extremely important aspect of the nature of the universe they live in, discussing their interpretations of the nature of the universe, while millions stare in awe, goggle-eyed at their astoundingly impressive levels of intellectual prowess. Just reinforcing the value of the gift of astrology we have been given. Commoners, less-educated laypersons, unemployed losers, stoners, hippies, housewives, just ordinary people, all with a better grasp of the playing field than many of the best minds on the planet.

[@laststand6420]

"Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him." A proverb of Solomon

[@professornuke7562]

Adrian hopping on one leg over the grass. Teacher: Can't you read , boy? Adrian:Yes, Sir. I'm very good at reading! Teacher: The sign clearly says not to walk on the grass! Adrian: Not walking, Sir. Hopping!

[@mnomadvfx]

@@laststand6420 Sounds like the sort of rhetorical nonsense that the bible is full of.

[@laststand6420]

@@mnomadvfx I will pray for your lost soul, that you may be blessed.

[@chuckhelms5248]

I did not see any confrontation. I saw two men discussing one of mankind's most difficult questions. Mad respect for both of them. Jordan's recent painful chapter in his life has set him on a path that we are all getting a chance to share in.

[@mattbahe]

How blessed are we all to live in a world where we can witness conversations like these no matter where we are in the world. It was not always so.

[@phantasticmrphasma9874]

Its sad to see how jordan has deteriorated following his traumas and struggle with addiction. The jordan of two/three years ago was far less agenda-driven. His level of emotion and nervous-energy here made it more of a battle than a genuine conversation. Fry clearly greatly respects petersons impressive intelligence because here i see thst fry is humouring jordans borderline-neurotic intensity. A discussion between these two three years ago would have been a more healthy one

[@ElShmiablo]

@@phantasticmrphasma9874 Peterson has always been a very obvious grifter. That you didn't catch on until recently isnt anyone's fault but your own.

[@Allan-mf1he]

Agreed. There was the salons of not so old in the bigger scheme. Were critical thinking was encouraged. Not so much in our time. Does not fit with the distract and disarm agenda of the..

[@bws833]

Absolutely agree but sadly it IS not always so.

[@phantasticmrphasma9874]

@@ElShmiablo no he hasn't.. That you think he is reveals how weak and delusional you are

[@aliasmcdecoy8349]

This is one of the most respectful dialogs I’ve ever seen between an avid Atheist and a person of faith, The hope it gives me literally brought tears to my eyes!

[@krisl2838]

Yea... Maybe he should bring up Jesus, and how he is the only way.. see how that goes.

[@aliasmcdecoy8349]

@@krisl2838 I’m not entirely sure what you meant... But this discussion really had nothing to do with Christianity, I was simply discussing the merits of Theism vs Atheism. Also Just out of curiosity what’s with so many people having anything but a picture of themselves for their profile picture? It seems anime characters are the most popular, And I love anime, But I never understood not wanting people to associate someone’s face with the opinion they’re stating...

[@GoggledAgog]

@@aliasmcdecoy8349are you new to the internet? Or are you accustomed to using social media platforms with personal pictures/video? Genuine questions. It's interesting to see someone question that. I've taken it for granted since the 90s. Why do you not present your real full name? Many of the answers to that will overlap with the answer to your other question

[@Balthazar2242]

I guess Peterson is kind of a person of faith isn't he.

[@newtonbelieved]

Lol, Jordan Peterson in first quarter of 2021 had Neptune square his Sun, Saturn square his Neptune, simultaneously having his second Saturn return, complaining about the recent pain he has undergone, and discussing God with someone who knows equally as little about the universe he lives in, and we all bow down to their overpowering Mercurial wisdom.

[@cheekynandos5056]

Stephen Fry. National treasure and beloved by all. For good reason. An absolute titan intellectual with seemingly limitless propensity for empathy. Wish he did more of these discussions.

[@julieprior3126]

Oh how I wish there were still things like this on television. I was lucky that when I was in my late teens and twenties there were many programmes like this to enjoy, to grow with and to prompt discussion afterwards with family, friends, flatmates. Sadly long dead. Thank goodness for You Tube and Podcasts.

[@FlyingcupNsourcer]

It's truly disheartening that the trends of programming for TV is utter drivel and divisive. As if the goal is to segregate instead of encouragement of cultural growth through discussion and debate.

[@julieprior3126]

@@FlyingcupNsourcer Exactly!

[@swhite1702]

Parkinson was always interesting. Now Graham Norton is about as good as it gets, unfortunately.

[@julieprior3126]

@@swhite1702 Yep! 😒

[@PaulDrennan]

I don't normally comment on KZbin videos. I watch a LOT of Jordan Peterson videos, Jordan is normally so considerate of the question and topic he's focused on and he normally pauses and thinks about his response, but it's testament to Stephen Frye that Jordan is enjoying the converse with Stephen here and he's in free flow where he's not having to consider the 'what if he said she said' and just enjoying the conversation. These are two modern greats of our time and it's great they can talk like this!

[@huejass3]

Like Jordan Peterson had to worry about when debating that dimwit Matt Dilahunty

[@muximus2771]

Its very clear when JP is talking to a friend vs a hustler.

[@notnilc2107]

I don't know. I'm growing kinda tired of the "I don't know the answer to that" and the "That's certainly a good question to ask" and the "Well that's an entirely valid point of view" rhetoric. Maybe this is just me manifesting the "Gen Z have lowest attention spans so far" statistic, but it's getting kinda annoying. JBP is obviously aware of the vitriolic "4chan" side of the internet with how he talks about comedians and free speech, so he's gotta be aware of what he's doing. And it's not like I don't get that poignancy-aversion and self-suppression is a problem but I feel like the doing opposite isn't the solution. All it does is chase away the people who need to hear it the most. It's like he doesn't care if he only preaches to the choir. It's also giving off a LOT of subtle boomer vibes, kinda like when that eric weinstein guy said he didn't like michael malice cus he was a troll.

[@michaelcritter7933]

The difference, perhaps, is that this was set up to be a conversational session, as opposed to a Harris/Dilahunty etc which designed as an adversarial session.

[@julianmartinez8954]

Old benzo brain never has a good answer for religious questions

[@michalkalinowski5008]

This kind of discussions are like art to me. I wish I was able to have conversations like that myself. Big fan of both of them

[@eliasekstrom6660]

wel no one knows how art is to you. maybe you think art is shit:O?

[@mypointofview1111]

@@eliasekstrom6660 That's not a helpful nor intelligent reply.

[@mypointofview1111]

You can have intelligent conversations you just need to find intelligent, like minded people to have them with.

[@eliasekstrom6660]

​@@mypointofview1111 racist

[@korratheaustralianshepherd5804]

@@eliasekstrom6660 Wow Elias, are you so beyond reproach to think someone else's life perspective is instantly false?? In what world was mypointofview's reply even remotely racist? Perhaps it's time to reconsider why replying to such a comment is even worthwhile of your time?

[@nalayini1504]

I appreciate so much howmuch Jordan puts consideration into his responses, he is genuinely concerned with the world and wants to help people, it shines through ❤

[@kateobrien1553]

Good on them both - seems to me that polite intellectual discussion has been lost recently. I am an absolute atheist but can, I hope, remain respectful of other’s beliefs and learn from their opinions - Stephen Fry is all I could wish to be and I applaud Peterson’s own brilliance and bravery.

[@theclimberupwards1169]

Why does Jordan sound like he’s always on the brink of tears?

[@TheClassicWorld]

Because sometimes he is (though it's not that common, honestly, so I wouldn't say, 'always'). As it turns out, Fry has the same problem/thing when dealing with really serious subjects (God/debates, for example). More common for Jordan, though. Of course, one reason is that Fry, and others, are not as emotionally attached/serious about it, so they don't have to worry as much: they just say, 'God is evil' and walk away, whereas, Jordan says, 'man is evil' and sits down. Big difference between those two frameworks and levels of depth. I saw Fry get very upset once, for example, when he was saying that, 'we don't need pain/suffering to know/be happy -- you can just be happy'. Of course, that's completely incorrect from a biological/objective standpoint, and I also think a psychological/subject standpoint, as well. That would be his 'soft liberal' coming out and his shallow bias towards everything religious, including the basic reality itself: life is suffering -- and to know happiness, you must also know pain, otherwise, you have no sense of what 'happiness' even means, or why these states exist and matter, nor their purpose; in fact, the problem with leftist types to begin with is they think the purpose of life is to just be mindlessly happy, even at the cost of the future itself and stability, etc. Very different frameworks here. And Jordan is extremely invested, where most public thinkers/speakers are not (Jordan is also just more emotional than a lot of the leftist public thinkers/speakers, so they are much more without emotion overall). Not really a bad thing, though, as it's partly what helps Jordan be who he is, of course, and to do his job, and care about it (for the last 45 years, anyway).

[@Solo_Dohlo]

Well didn't you hear him? He had dealt with a lot of severe health issues and its very clear the pain from that has scarred him physically and emotionally.

[@keithhunt5328]

@@Solo_Dohlo I think its also because he is a clinical psychologist and deals with people in their pain.

[@Banjomute]

It's his go-to credibility bandaid when he knows his argument is on thin ice.

[@keithhunt5328]

@@Banjomute lol

[@debrasawarin8869]

I cannot overstate my respect and admiration for Stephen.

[@rosafilosi3117]

I do...He just thinks he's ultimately above God, because by saying what kind of a God allows suffering, well it goes back to the disobedience of our ancestral parents who did not obey God in the Garden of Eden. It is a simple as that. Today, there is so much evil and so much sin, I only have to watch televsion to see yet another man has killed a wife, an ex-girlfriend, called feminicide, that I do believe in a God who loves us and wants us to repent. There have been saints who loved God, giving their life over Christ in a consecrasted life, yet did not hold it against God, and eventually died too. I can't wait to get to Heaven because I have been baptised and hang on the Christ's apron strings for He claimed that anyone who sees Him sees the Father, and that noone goes to the Father except through Him. I accept all that He did, for He had 12 Apostles who were his eyewitnesses, more than one can say regarding others who rise up and claim to be a prophet of sorts. Well, Almighty God, appeals to humanity's faculty of reason to preannounce in whom we are to believe, so we don't miss him when he comes. The other stumbling block is that most other religions can't get their collective head around a God who can have a select race, in the Jews, the Israelites, with whom He communicated via his prophets, think Isaia, Moses, and so on. I pin my hopes in the religion of Love. No greater love is there than that a man would give his life for others, even when we were still sinners. That's Christ, no other guru, which when one thinks on it, is the concoction of a fertile mind. Sometimes force was used to drive someone to adhere to that philosophy and ideology which is none other than an evil regime. And, women are usually the ones who come off worst. Subjugation is real, and it is still happening today. Christianity is not about subjugating but liberating all people so we can be with Him and the angels and the saints in Heaven, once and for all. Amen to that. So ecstatic for this prospect.

[@BroskiRIP]

Very good on The Morning Show. He's English but on a US show, which is rare these days.

[@SISU889]

They are both equally , very interesting and wonderful to listen too . Their respect for each other is very clear to see .

[@areyouavinalaff]

Well you haven't stated it at all, perhaps you loathe the man.

[@matswessling6600]

@@SISU889😂... no... peterson has nothing.

[@vinleone4366]

Fascinating discussion. Refreshing Debate. Thanks fellas.

[@KlausSgroi]

That kind of thing doesn't exist here in Brazil: a calm, logic-based conversation between two opposing intellectuals. How I wish the world was more like this!

[@BugRod64]

peterson logical, when?

[@darklustgamingchannel4535]

Sometimes logic just likes to hear itself speak with no step closer to a conclusion or closure.

[@AndersonSilveirasheenayz]

As he said, our moral can't be changed, in Brazil we have the illusion of arguing about political or religious things, but we're actually trying to change peoples inner morals, a guy worship a president not for his work, but because he identify with his prejudice, we don't listen things we don't agree. Thats why these two are awesome. They talk to learn about others perspective.

[@petercollingwood522]

@@BugRod64 Get a hold of a dictionary and look up it's meaning. Then give understanding another shot.

[@petercollingwood522]

It doesn't exist many other places as well unfortunately.

[@ziyaadahmed1417]

Beautiful, respectful and intellectual discussion between two men that have differing social, religious and political ideals, I love it and want to see more of this. I don't care what criticisms people have of either of them, they are brilliant.

[@hughjohnson2674]

Isn’t it odd that towards the end god disappeared and the conversation turned to a sort of nature over nurture investigation

[@Emanuel-ht9yl]

@@hughjohnson2674 cause thats what it is, Are we manufactured by a higher being or are we just out here byproducts of the way our solar system moves and changes

[@KC-et7gk]

2 men.

[@ziyaadahmed1417]

@@hughjohnson2674 love this reply

[@ziyaadahmed1417]

@@Emanuel-ht9yl love this reply

[@122josh]

This is what an actual intellectual conversation between two men who don't necessarily agree with each other but understand that and respect it wholeheartedly looks like. Fantastic from both.

[@koitorob]

" don't necessarily agree with each other?" Disagree about what?

[@paintspot1509]

@@koitorob essential JP was trying to argue on behalf of religion. It didn't work very well because how do you argue that bone cancer is fine as long as we don't let ourselves get angry about it.

[@RobbieRobot.]

God is not what you think it is but Stephen is exactly what you think he is, a British treasure, a wonderful man who I will always learn from every time I hear him speak ❤

[@koRnygoatweed]

God doesn't exist, saying "god is not what you think it is" is a ridiculous comment. If you think god exists in ANY capacity you are a delusional person.

[@adamnave1078]

@@koRnygoatweed in the same way you could say that saying the existence of god is a definitive falsehood is wrong because it assumes we would be able to understand a higher beings existence and prove it to be true or false your comment doesnt really contribute nor mean anything because it can be used for either side.

[@koRnygoatweed]

@@adamnave1078 lol

[@jonathanwebster7091]

​@@koRnygoatweedwhat utter nonsense. Tony Iommi from Black Sabbath clearly exists.

[@-NemoMeImpuneLacessit]

A demonstration of intelligent and precise use of the English language in a respectful exchange of information and both complex and simple ideas and opinions. I feel better for having watched this, thank you.

[@riohenry6382]

As a chronic pain patient, I’m so impressed that Peterson can be so animated and engaged on a difficult topic. Many of us shut down when we’re in pain

[@1Nida]

I've been living with chronic pain for 30 of my 56 years. At times I really wrestle with God wanting to understand why, want g to be delivered. But ultimately I come back to that no matter what, I trust Him and I' know I'm going to live with him forever. The struggle is always about trying to understand why instead of accepting what is.

[@MegaSuperAmine]

I hope you will get well sooner or later. Stay optimistic sir. There are people caring for you.

[@riohenry6382]

@@1Nida it took me twenty years to see the purpose in my situation. It only becomes bearable when you see the lesson you learned, the purpose in the suffering and how you can life with all that. God bless you. I wish us both good health some day, however unlikely that may be. We are still swaddled by the wings of the Spirit in our darkest hour

[@beemer2869]

@@1Nida If we understand that God doesn't want you to be in pain and this world isn't how it should be, and that the fall, when evil entered the world in Genesis, then we understand that this isn't what God intended for us. Satan causes us to blame God, as He created us and is Almighty, but it is Satan tempting man in the Garden of Eden that caused this, freewill given to us as a gift from God, which went wrong. Our amazing God put this right for us, and gave man another chance by coming to earth as man as Jesus Christ our Saviour, whose life turned the world around, He left the biggest mark on this world than any other person who has walked this earth. His impact cannot be denied, even 2000 years later, His word lives on in many. The problem lies in the freewill that remains within us all, some still choose not to believe or want what He offers. The Lord doesn't want us to be like puppets on a string, we all have a choice don't we. Just remember that our time on this earth is short compared to eternity for those who follow Him, and 'He will wipe away every tear from their eyes'. How amazing is that. Hold on there. God bless you and bring you comfort.

[@mammadingo9165]

Pain can be a panicky puppeteer . May you gain many moments of peace this year and into the future relief and a restful sleep . Sending positive vibes your way ✌️🌼♥️🤗

[@krazyhartin]

This conversation is up there, if not, one of the best conversations ever I've listened to. I've learnt so much. Credits to Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry. :)

[@steviegbcool]

lol

[@JA-gz6cj]

loool

[@notyourmum9938]

Kemit arguing with steven fry is my new favourtie show, all you have to do is close your eyes😂

[@stingraypoindexter]

This comment deserves more respect 😂

[@dhenderson1810]

The thing with these two guys that they do right is:- 1) They actually listen to each other and wait for the other person to finish their point. 2) Each respects the other person and allows the other to have an opposing view. 3) Both are well-read and deep thinkers. They read literary works. Most people on Twitter get their world view from the newspaper. 4) They are open-minded, and even if both still hold the same position, they are open to furthering their understanding of the opposing viewpoint. Their aim in discussing and debating is to learn, not to "win". 5) It is not about "right" and "wrong" but viewpoint. It is a recognition that opinion is different from fact. 6) Neither is wed to their viewpoint, nor devolve to name,-calling or questioning of the other's morality or credentials. They break down the argument without breaking the person. 7) There is no hostility or oversensitivity. No questioning of someone's motives for thinking a particular way. 8) I could be wrong, but I sense that these two know that, though they know a lot (given their referencing of literary works and philosophy) that they still don't know everything, so are open to learning something new from their opponent, something they didn't know before. Opposite to those on social media who think they know it all, and aren't open to opposing viewpoints. Those who use Twitter could learn a lot of lessons from these two.

[@philovermyer6166]

Imagine thinking Peterson is a deep thinker and well-read.

[@shaneoshea6216]

@@philovermyer6166 & what makes you believe that he isn't?

[@philovermyer6166]

@@shaneoshea6216 Because if you strip away all the verbosity of his comments they are really shallow or on the verge of r/stonerthoughts levels of nothing throughout all his works.

[@philovermyer6166]

@peter hany Yeah, because the problem of evil/problem of suffering is really solved by "but no dude if you get upset at god for being an asshole, you're actually the asshole". Genius stuff from Peterson, he's such a smart guy. OMG and that baller stuff about cleaning your room and women being chaos dragons, just top tier smart stuff from a very emotionally stable and very smart man.

[@samjones56]

well said wow

[@noneofyourbeeswax371]

Ah an intellectual conversation. A phenomenon that is so close to extinction. It's so beautiful to watch two civilized people discuss their thoughts in a gentlemanly manner.

[@QuinnieMae]

M C I urge you to make new friends as these conversations are nowhere _near_ extinction. These conversations happen everywhere every day! Most of us don't have a KZbin channel to put them on display in a way most people would want to hear, but they happen. I absolutely adore Stephen and have loved his work for years. I truly enjoy Peterson and his classroom lectures; what an amazingly empathetic and intelligent and passionate teacher.

[@sonofbelz]

It's really not, you're just looking in all the wrong places.

[@ANT96-x8d]

God didn’t bring suffering into existence. That was Satan’s doing when he tricked Adam and Eve into eating the forbidden fruit, which brought evil and discord into existence. So if you wanna blame someone for ruining one’s life or making life unfair, that’s something you should only blame Satan for and not God.

[@ljubomirjuraj9658]

It's a conversation with a intellectual, and the other person is Peterson.

[@votephillips2564]

trump is gone. 👅

[@petehobson1054]

My contribution to this conversation, if I was there: "I saw Fast and Furious 9 the other day..... it was all right."

[@kamranabbas2438]

I read "it was all right" in Karl Pilkington's voice.

[@petehobson1054]

@@kamranabbas2438 lol even better!

[@fusakei1825]

karl pilkington would make this conversation so much more amazing

[@WilliamsDinis]

@@fusakei1825 "what are you on about?" 😂

[@wrAIth-AI]

Cathy Newman, "So, you're saying..."

[@georgemagaji8611]

Hi All . I feel really conflicted by this conversation because on the one hand ,it's hurts and shames me to say that I have have the same feelings that fry has regarding God ,but on the other hand ,I do agree with what Peterson said and I do find his view to be more positive, productive and beneficial to myself and everyone else . Because like Peterson said ,I also have felt a lot of anger, resentment,hatred ,bitterness and other negative feelings towards God for things that have happened in my life and in the overall world ( like the current war in Gaza just as an example 😢) . I have also felt like I have been rejected ,hated and abandoned by God so many times 😥💘😓 but especially when I have cried out to him for help ,but I believe that even in these complex situations,holding negative feelings towards God or anything else ,cannot help at all ,like JP said ,they can only add fuel to the fire and make the situation much worse . So currently I do my best ( as tough as it is ) to regularly surrender any negative feelings I have to God as I respectfully feel that is the best way forward and even if nothing comes from it ,I keep going Thanks for reading my perspective all and giving your own take on this complex matter God bless you all and best wishes to you all ❤️🙏👊.

[@carleyfries9804]

Great conversation! People being polite in spite of disagreements is such a welcome sight. Thank you both!

[@Kodakcompactdisc]

It’s nice to see Peter in a conversation with someone on his level. Too many times we see him talking to morons and it gets tiresome.

[@theangrygamer895]

I feel blesses to have lived in the same time as Stephen. I could watch and listen to him for hours and hours. A magnificent human being and one we should all strive to be like. Thank you Stephen.

[@garethobrien2821]

I could listen to him reading the Dubai phone book in a scouse accent with a productive chest cold and hang on every word. 😊

[@timwatts9371]

@@garethobrien2821 That’s a cracking idea for a TV Series

[@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504]

I think he's overrated. In terms of intellect he's certainly not one of the 'heavyweights'.

[@alexshaw4182]

@@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504 Is that coming from an intellectual heavy weight?

[@awreckingball]

He's pretentious and a a sleaze.

[@Boabywankenobi]

Hate to say it, this is the one time I've seen JP on toast. "You're not being helpful" is not a good response to "if you believe in a good god, why does he give children cancer or create bugs who's only existence is cause blindness in kids". JP had NO answer. I wish Stephen Fry would do more of these debates because he is a real sage, ruthless intellect and wit that we are losing from socirty all too quickly. Viva Mr Fry.

[@LPCLASSICAL]

correct. Peterson is angry with god because he believes in a god and he is saying that is not helpful. Fry's angry is merely rhetorical. It is not about anger - helpful or not - it is about what is true. But to be fair Peterson does say he has no solution or answer to the problem of suffering.

[@aut0mat1c11]

@@LPCLASSICAL well, God declared the end from the beginning and all the way to ancient times, things that are not done. Think of us a just chess pieces and God is the grand master against his adversary the devil. All of the suffering and triumph and loss and relief that we experience is all planned out before the foundation of the world. For whom he did foreknow he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that they be first born among many brethren. He is the LORD God, he makes alive, he wounds, he heals. He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy on.

[@DH-og5yr]

@@LPCLASSICAL jp is speaking as a psychologist. Mentally what is best is not always what is objectively true but what is helpful. From a cbt perspective. Since there is not much objective truth to be found anyways, might as well be happy.

[@VandescoGamer]

@@aut0mat1c11 I mean yeah, except none of that is real. So, there's that.

[@LPCLASSICAL]

@@DH-og5yr Yes I acknowledge that. Delusions can make you happy and be a positive force and help you achieve goals. Like Dumbo's magic feather. Personally - I prefer to live my life free from unjustified beliefs - even at the cost of happiness. But each to their own way.

[@kaanpeeters]

What does he mean at 8:40? Verklärungseffekt in German? I never heard of it and cannot find anything when I look it up.

[@arun-544]

Some transfiguration effect? This is a mega-guess btw

[@kaanpeeters]

@@arun-544 This seems to be it! Thank you very much

[@LagernLime]

So refreshing to listen to such respectful intellect...especially given current world events

[@Josh-sj9ig]

Whenever Peterson has atheists on he just cries and rambles.... Mental.. .

[@timrizzo3941]

Love both of these guys so much, both who they are and their willingness to not just afford space for disagreement, but to find things that are laudable about the person espousing the opposing view and make a point of stating them with the same weight as their point of disagreement. This is how you understand other points of view and together come to a fuller understanding of the ways to view human experience

[@keithnaylor1981]

If there was a God would he allow an important serious discussion like this to be interrupted mid sentence after only a few minutes by some moronic disconnected ad?

[@notloki3377]

if god real why bad thing happen? and other important arguments by richard dawkins

[@paulgilraine3127]

@@notloki3377 bad things happen because they do it's just nature ,the nature of people can be bad and the nature of life on earth can be cruel but it's evolutions nature , my wife had breast cancer and that was just nature .a good friend of mine said to me at the time my wife and mother of my children was having chemo therapy that they would pray for us and told me to pray for her as well but as I saw things if god dose exist he's the one that gave her cancer and now I'm asked by god to get on my knees be good for him and pray for my wife so she can get better ,I thought hard and came up with that's a bad god that I don't want to know ,i told my friend if anything going to make my wife better it will be science and the good doctors that will be looking after her and they did she doing fine right now .

[@notloki3377]

@@paulgilraine3127 you didn't understand. I was being sarcastic. God and evil are not mutually exclusive. The argument from evil is a logical fallacy. Glad your wife is doing better.

[@SyrisTheGreat]

God made KZbin Premium for a reason. Pay up

[@roundduck7005]

God made adblock

[@empoweredbeyondbeliefs]

Wonderful conversation on every level!👏

[@estarriol7]

I could listen to these gentlemen talk all day. What a wonderful conversation and attitude between them.

[@dnajournal4321]

geyh!

[@sozzle600]

I'm not sure what to think. Fry is listening and seems happy to question himself and listens. Other bloke seems ok but completely convinced in his opinions and nobody will change that. I'm not saying he's wrong he just doesn't seem to question himself

[@chilou8708]

The Key to this discussion is both individuals have respect for each other’s intrinsic value as well as their intellectual intelligence. They are not merely discussing opinions rather an exploration of concepts. As a result they view each other as equals. This is the difference from the majority of civil discourse in the 21st century.

[@patrickstoute4085]

Great conversation. Listening to eachother and using reflection. Its not about,who is right,but sharing thoughts & respecting eachother pov. Thank you for posting this. ❤

[@justwilly6778]

This is what proper, respectful debate looks like - and it should be required viewing for education.

[@bikerintheblood]

Whatever get’s you through life as peacefully and joyfully as possible, is fine by me. If you can help others along the way, then you’ll not have wasted the time you were alive.

[@kmel7]

This is the most incredible interview. Two genius minds, different opinions, no arguments, no abuse. It's actually amazing!

[@GreySpyder]

Actually it was rather to listen Stephen fry ramble on other peoples ideas. not his own. He seems like bookworm with conman's articulation

[@gerryburntwood9617]

Oh please Peterson is hardly a genius, , he is typical of a white privilege male of the far right persuasion, and is misogynistic! He is pathetic!

[@biggregg5]

I'm not convinced that Peterson is a genius.....he may me. If he is, at least part of his brain has a black hole sucking his ability to reason on certain topics.

[@muhamadamin2474]

@@gerryburntwood9617 it's funny how you edited your comment but it's still wrong lmao.

[@gerryburntwood9617]

@@muhamadamin2474 here read this statement of Peterson! However, this is a legitimate and very troubling question. Here is a recent article where Peterson states that we have no evidence that Islam would be compatible with Democracy: Jordan Peterson: No Evidence Islam Would Be Compatible With Democracy

[@mrtombs]

Lovely to hear some respectful and intelligent debate. No abuse just ideas which can be investigated, read up on and reflected upon. Thank you gentleman

[@3MrNiceGuy15]

I love listening to both of these guys

[@JulianTimMusic]

As an atheist I’m with Stephen Fry all the way but I do have great respect for Jordan Peterson because he very rarely argues with an intention to prove the other person wrong or make the other person look stupid. He’s genuinely interested in other peoples takes on these topics. They’re just having a deep philosophical conversation about the existence of god

[@vanessampatlanyane3895]

S2sss

[@vanessampatlanyane3895]

22s

[@vanessampatlanyane3895]

S2s

[@silversurfer4259]

S2sss

[@onsenguy]

Jordan Peterson would certainly like to prove the other person wrong if he was able to, but he simply cannot because his arguments are not that good for the existence of a deity. Historically, whenever a freethinker and a religious person argue the existence of God, the free thinker gets the best of the argument. This is not a criticism of the religious person but rather because the religious person thinks they have knowledge when in fact they only have opinion and thus cannot cogently argue their position.

[@ellydavis2066]

Stephen Fry is such an intellect, I could listen to him all day. I loved the debate with him and Christopher Hitchens debating the Archbishop and Ann Widdecombe too. He's also a genuinely nice person and very humble.

[@pop9095]

It was in terms of debate a one sided affair, but instructive and entertaining.

[@BecauseVikingsCan]

He made a few podcasts, they're on Spotify. 10/10 would recommend

[@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504]

I think he's overrated, I wouldn't consider him an intellectual heavyweight he's just well read.

[@Gamer-ec7gd]

If he was an intellect he wouldn't be an atheist.

[@mynames7664]

@@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504 who would you call an intellectual heavyweight then?

[@ashhart6366]

2 conflicting opinions, and yet able to have an intelligent, non confrontational conversation. What a throwback. Marvelous

[@rhiconic]

Two great minds having an educated discussion about the same subject.

[@gospelofthomas77thpearl22]

Fry is excellent. His cool, articulate come backs are gold.

[@damienthompson5808]

Gotta love that babbling old mess. His stupidity is amazing. I wish I could be more stupid.

[@Retroman__ll]

I'm a genuine believer that if everyone could speak like this (and I mean everyone, from the politicians to the homeless and starving), then we could find answers in this world that would move us forward as a species exponentially. If such topics came up frequently, were debated and thought about by all kinds of people...we would gain so much insight and perspective that I think we could differentiate the truth from the false notions conjured up by our pasts/personalitites/environment etc. We would have a new found appreciation for right and wrong, which would lead to understanding, then increased empathy and thus better treatment of our fellow humans (and all life). That could be the building block that allows us to someday figure out which of these two men is right, if any. When we're closer to being rid of our conscious, to achieving the perceived "higher level" will we be able to judge properly, see differently and make an informed decision on what we are, why we are, where we came from and if we're not alone.

[@SayelorYT]

I agree with you. I feel that the reason the individuals above spoke in the way they did was because they had certain presuppositions about each other. They truly believed the other person had something of value to offer them. They didn’t believe that the person speaking to them was an idiot, and xenophobic right-winger, or a naive, and stupid leftist. This a presupposition that I’ve tried to institute after listening to hours of JP. He articulated the utility of this presupposition so clearly to me that I immediately dispensed with my ideological possession. There’s gotta be a reason so many cultures valued articulation and attention.

[@nommh]

Yes, but most people don’t care at all for that kind of thing. Sitting in rooms and read, then think, read some more, then live a little. Then you must go back to the thinking. Most people would rather stack shelves than just sit with their own thoughts for appreciable amounts of their time. I was lucky to spend about a decade of my life that way. That was long ago. I found an intellectual compass for myself, I have at least heard of many of the authors Peterson and Fry mention, although I would not wish to wade through them, I’m happy that there are people who do.

[@1112viggo]

We don´t need everyone to speak like this, we just need everyone to listen to the ones who does.

[@sarahn.9358]

@@nommh I couldn't get a job stacking shelves so I stayed in my room for nearly a decade, making miniatures and googling a lot 😃 I feel guilty about everything, yet I know it's not all my fault. The eco guilt.

[@rayzerot]

There is no middle ground when one side believes in what can be seen and measured and the other believes in 2 thousand year-old books about an all knowing and all powerful fairy. Edit- typo.

[@propstick]

No condescension, no hyperbole, no anger... just two very intelligent men having an intelligent, amiable conversation.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

Well, one very intelligent man and Jordan Peterson.

[@donmongoose]

@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg The fact you state Jordan Peterson isn't intelligent because he has opinions you disagree with suggests that if you were in a room with them, there'd be 2 intelligent people there and you'd not be one of them.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

@@donmongoose learn to read, clownshoes. That's not what I said. Peterson is an extremely mediocre academician, an extremely derivative author, and a theological fraud. Nothing to do with whether I agree with him or not - I actually DO agree with him on his basic premise about reading religious texts as living documents, the difference is - he lies about it now.

[@Pigeon249]

​@@donmongooseUsing big words doesnt make you intelligent. Peterson has gone utterly insane as of the last few years and most people can see it

[@donmongoose]

@@Pigeon249 I don't think he's intelligent because he uses big words, I think he's intelligent because he can understand and converse on numerous complex subjects and offer meaningful explanations for different things. I'll certainly agree I find myself disagreeing with him a lot more than I used to a few years ago, but that doesn't mean he's suddenly turned stupid.

[@jakamoo1990]

I would love to see more conversations between these two, not in any debate style or.any professional setting I'd like to see the two if them sitting down with a cup of tea just talking. Two men I admire and respect

[@x3mslayer]

The respect eminating from this conversation, two opposing views, having a dialogue. I love how respectful and focused on getting to the bottom of things they both are. No room for negative emotions, they're just a burden. Work through them and have an intellectual conversation. But theirs is brimming with respect, it's amazing.

[@mattsmith9469]

Absolutely.

[@andreabrembilla6466]

'im not really resentful and angry about the fact that there's evil in the world, I'm sorrowful'. This right there translates exactly how i feel too.

[@imaliazhar]

You are sad God created so much evil in the world?

[@jamescarla26]

@@imaliazhar yep, I think that's what they are saying?

[@imaliazhar]

@@jamescarla26 I find it very difficult to not be angry knowing how easy it is for Him to remove all evil from the world.

[@ElShmiablo]

@@imaliazhar How can "he" do anything if they aren't real?

[@imaliazhar]

@@ElShmiablo The original comment suggests they are not angry at God (if he exists), they are just sad because of the evil. What I was trying to understand is how can they not be angry at Him given how easy it is for Him to cleanse the world of evil.

[@JESWEATSHIRT]

Found great comfort, insight, admiration, inspiration and pride watching this as a fan of both Peterson and Fry. Much respect

[@Waverlyduli]

Absolutely agree with you.

[@PokyKav]

As a Christian, i have always loved listening to thought-provoking arguments against my core beliefs. One finds in these arguments, man's never ending quest for meaning. For me, the deeper the intellectually engaging conversations, laced with a rich body of literatures, the more i am convinced there is a God in heaven.

[@JD-tk1ci]

I have secretly wanted to hear this discussion for a long time. Wonderful! So disappointed that it ended so soon. I’d watch this for two hours that’s how important this discussion is.

[@judael5605]

@@isaacharron8551 what is is called

[@cambibambi9374]

@@judael5605 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHephH6bmd5snJY

[@davesontherocks9938]

WHY would god give freewill to man if he can see the future? See god cannot manioulate time and space, yet yiy guve hum credit fir creating it? Or he could travel within time and just change hIs mistakes? So hAS cursed all mankind over a mistake, he made with adam and eve? THEN HE CURSED JESUS TO DIE FOR THAT? YOU PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS.

[@cambibambi9374]

@@davesontherocks9938 I think the idea is that God made a perfect world and then by giving man free will, they brought corruption into it by giving into the temptation of evil. God gives people free will so that they can earn their salvation. He knows the future but it is like he was watching a train about to hit a person from a distance, he can't yell and tell them to get off the tracks as that would violate their free will. However he does have the power as God to fly in and throw the train into outer space. Personally I don't buy it but I think that is one of the answers to your questions which religious folk tend to provide.

[@namename3130]

Yes but lets face it. What we all want to see is jordan peterson vs the vegan teacher lol

[@alexbosorogan7501]

When two civilized persons meet , this kind of great debates and results like this one happen. A delight to see Jordan and Stephan having such mindful exchange. The world needs more like this .

[@roxtar10870]

Except that one of the men, deep down, wants to see people who aren't like them killed. They hate certain groups of people and see them as not fit to exist.

[@PaganPunk]

It Really does! X

[@DivineInferno]

I don't really see this as a "great debate" it's more a long talk about nothing inparticular, I respect these two men immensely, and I never knew JP was such a god fearing man. But we can agree these are two most civilized people. I learned something new about both of them watching this debate. Best of luck on your adventures.

[@alexbosorogan7501]

@@DivineInferno English not being my first language could be the fault , using debate instead of dialogue. Great conversation I hope that satisfies you. You missed the point though. I'm not surprised.

[@martin4670]

one civilized person^ peterson is a psuedo-intellect

[@peterfenwick4662]

Stephen Fry is so considered and genuinely a great human being.

[@Kitiwake]

Did he plead that when he was convicted for fraud?

[@kahyui2486]

@@Kitiwake how can u plead being considered and a great human being? That's not how court works. U either plead guilty or not guilty. Maybe you have never been to court

[@Rorschag]

What a delight to listen to them

[@TimVineTelevisual]

I genuinely love listening to people who are much smarter than me discuss ideas. These two are amazing.

[@philstaples8122]

They're not smarter than you, they have a combination of being well read, educated and being taught how to critique a point, genetically they may have done a little better on the intelligence scale too, you can learn that it just takes a lot of time and effort if you didn't come up trumps on the intelligence scale. Time most people don't have because they need to make money to live

[@lavenderknot6715]

​@@philstaples8122 omg the trump derangement syndrome is literally everywhere.

[@Rambles-vf5jr]

They both have their own ignorance's, like us all.

[@Scaley_Reptile]

Just more well read, there's a difference. I been watching these guys many years and was at first confused how they get praised for being geniuses..truth is, I know they are no smarter than I am... I've debated many people over the years. But these guys have dug more into subjects and histories I haven't...and love to watch them hash it out...hear the opinions and logic, see what they can teach me. Let's say your a builder...It's safe to assume at BUILDING, you look like a genius to them.. No one KNOWS EVERYTHING. We all have our interests and subjects we know more than the majority about...and others where we need to shut up and listen. Don't underestimate yourself.

[@Scaley_Reptile]

​@@lavenderknot6715 Trump is also a word, not just a name...look again.

[@neildawson2672]

I found this conversation infinitely more interesting than i imagined i would before watching.

[@AscendantStoic]

Wish the internet and online discourse in general was all like this, absolutely captivating conversation.

[@paul995]

yep instead it’s HEY GUYS OH MY HOD YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT IM DOING TODAY, IM TRYING POPEYES CHICKEN FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 5 YESRS!!!

[@jasonclement3000]

nope.. jordan peterson is very good at word salad.. dragging on a subject for a lot more than necessary using words and more words and hardly making any point at all

[@B1GLANDD]

Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry! Wow my ears feel blessed 😊

[@paulc5314]

The key is that they are letting each other finish their points without interrupting constantly, THAT is a sign of high intelligence

[@cirenrose]

That's just manners.

[@shanehughes740]

Every time I start to think I might be intelligent, I watch this video in order to be humbled. Two brilliant, well-read, well-spoken men having a respectful and thought-provoking discussion about a topic that usually devolves into an emotional shouting match. I could watch these two discuss anything and come away better for it.

[@mewho6199]

"Two brilliant, well-read, well-spoken men"? So Stephen Fry is one, but where's the second one? I only saw Jordan Peterson.

[@anagramconfirmed1717]

@@mewho6199 i'm really into fitness, but I don't want to generate my own content. How would I populate my channel with videos made by other people?

[@mihirlalbeharie4459]

@@kingsonpookie I agree.

[@Repugnantone]

@@kingsonpookie I also agree. Wholeheartedly.

[@WorkerBeesUnite]

@@kingsonpookie tbh rewatch anything Jordan Peterson with an eye for be fact that everything he says is very basic and lacks profundity. He just dresses up basic statements with large words and stories from history. He’s yet to originate something profound, as far as I’ve heard from him yet

[@cameronmitchell9561]

Imagine what we as a species can accomplish using this approach to discuss and reconcile our shared, and collective, differences. Fantastic conversation!

[@pinball1970]

It will never catch on. Not while the religious have power.

[@wrongfullyaccused7139]

@@pinball1970 ; Overly broad and grossly inaccurate statement. Dr. Peterson is speaking of The God of the Bible and Christianity, which has nothing to do with religion.

[@pinball1970]

@@wrongfullyaccused7139 Christianity is the world's largest religion what on earth are you talking about?

[@wrongfullyaccused7139]

@@pinball1970 ; It is quite simple really. People quite often attach labels to things without thinking. Most often n the people attaching those labels have never participated in the process or belief system or whatever it is they are labeling. Christianity is way past being "religious". It is walking on the path directed by God in His word to follow to a promised and explained reward. It is established and ordained not by men but by God Himself. Careless people attach the term "religion" to Christianity because they don't know what it is. They may know some tidbits here and there, but they don't actually know because they have never experienced the hand of God in their lives. God says this in His word. 1) The word "religion" is mentioned only five times in the Bible. James 1:27 says this "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." In Conclusion, Christianity is NOT a religion. It is the way of the life dictated by God. Have a nice day.

[@pinball1970]

@@wrongfullyaccused7139 Atheists and reasonable thinking people including many Christians regard Christianity as a religion. There are lots of other religions and Christianity is just one of them. You do not get to change the meaning of words.

[@DaVinci368]

There is much of what Jordan says that I absolutely do not agree with, and a great deal he says that I applaud. But all these things aside, what I am left with is profound admiration for his incredible depth of personal honesty. It seems to me that his incredible intelligence and the magnitude of his honest compassion leave him tortured in trying to find a truth his soul can live with. Few people’s heart truly come through in media.,,, but both Steohen Fry and Jordan Peterson are two examples of men whose souls I truly admire. Bravo men. And thank you both for sharing your ideas and interpretations.❤️

[@LaBigShip]

I just want to give props to Fry. He's speaking to a man extremely intelligent and well-educated in this field. He has at least 100 fields of interest but he can get into these discussions with anyone and still be knowledgeable and contribute significantly. Unfortunately not appreciated enough.

[@darrenwalshe8513]

Nobody is extremely intelligent in this field because nobody really knows, these are only opinions here. Jp is not an expert on spirituality

[@alibarznji2000]

If we're talking intelligence, Fry is more intelligent than Jordan Peterson. I really like them both

[@graveyardstudio3503]

@@alibarznji2000 Define inteligence

[@ElShmiablo]

@@graveyardstudio3503 Not believing in imaginary friends

[@graveyardstudio3503]

Good thing i didnt ask you, cuz id be dissapointed. As a joke, passable.

[@LaPtiteAnglaise]

What a joy. Two different, clever people. Different politics, ‘morals’, philosophy. Not screaming. Not insulting. Enjoying commonality. 5 minutes elapsed and no one was called a fascist or nazi. What an indictment and example to modern social media.

[@stephenletts4942]

Stephen Fry is listening -open eyes -mind. Peterson does not listen he pontificates - he is firm in his beliefs, and thinks his science is right and everyone is wrong, over time listening to him, and seeing how one is chasing windmills, trying to find meaning in life.

[@LaPtiteAnglaise]

@@stephenletts4942 ah well. You can’t please everyone. I find him fascinating. I also find it strange he can reconcile evidence based argument with his religious convictions. He actually strikes me as someone who listens very carefully to exactly what is being said.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Children are made to suffer because reincarnation exists, they are paying for their sins committed in past lives. Both Jesus and Buddha taught reincarnation but the creepy RC Church removed reincarnation from Christ's teachings in the fourth century. God always makes sense. To return to Heaven, our birthplace, our slate has to be clean and suffering is the Way.

[@LaPtiteAnglaise]

@@jeffforsythe9514 😞 Bore off.

[@Josh-sj9ig]

One of them calm and rational the other a babblering, teary mess.....

[@debbiem.3128]

Stephen looks amused, I can't help wonder what he's really thinking underneath his eloquent, polite and lovely self.

[@Vislav]

I believe he's annoyed by the word salad of Peterson.

[@Fmannnn]

He was best friends with Christopher Hitchens this is light work for Stephen

[@_HeathenChemistry_]

​@@FmannnnI wish Christopher could have debated Jordan . Rip Hitch😢❤

[@_HeathenChemistry_]

​@@FmannnnI love how they would call each other "old horse" "old crumpet" ❤

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

That he cant believe people take Peterson seriously.

[@robcaputo9708]

This is the first conversation that I’ve seen Peterson in that didn’t make me want to slap him. The humility looks good on him. Mind you I also have reverence for Mr. Fry! Now, if Peterson could only stop thinking, he has all the answers when it comes to politics and political culture that would be a service to humanity.