Why did the Emperor Kill the Thunder Warriors? - Warhammer 40k Lore

[@Dutch40KGuy]

Hope you ladz enjoy! ALSO DONT FORGET TO WATCH THE FALL OF CADIA MOVIE!!!

[@classiccraftdestined.7596]

did you create some of the Thunder Warrior images yourself?

[@Hyde-dg7ef]

@@classiccraftdestined.7596 i dont think so im not saying that dutch is a bad guy or anything. im just saying that a lot of the images i recognize from either official sources or deviantart stuff. yes, that deviantart. mock it for its degeneracy all you want. if you look in the right corners and use the right search words, youll find quality art

[@Dutch40KGuy]

I usually get custom artpieces made for my longform videos, there's a couple in here

[@paulmetzgar2604]

The Emperor should have just gathered the Thunder Warriors and had them fight the Orks. The Thunder Warriors would not have needed to do anything but fight and die gloriously. This would have been a far more fitting end to them.

[@fpena6038]

Also, it would have prevented the emperor from becoming an overt traitor to his own loyal men. After the numerous things that he did, I have come to see that he had the betrayal of Horus coming as a justly deserved recompense.

[@Stonewall999]

This is heresy, all is disposable in the desperate pursuit of survival for mankind. Time travel has revealed Chaos ending the universe, no thunder warrior can stop it. Only the Emperor protects!

[@canderoussnurd4265]

In theory a good idea. In practice a terrible idea when considering that the Thunder Warrior is far less stable mentally and physically and they lacked the more advanced purposes the Astartes do. Thunder warriors are what happens when you give a violent psychopath special forces level training, steroids, fentanyl, a huge bag of blow and have them stuck in a room for hours on end blaring death metal. Think Kruger from the movie Elysium and that’s basically a thunder warrior (with a cute and cuddly side and barely 1% of the physical traits). Do you really want to send them into space to fight the one race they’d absolutely get along with? Remember the Orks were impressed by Yarriks brutality in battle and he was just a commissar with advanced combat training. You send 1000 thunder warriors to go fight the Orks you’ll end up facing a Waaaarg fed by the brutality of Thunder Warriors energy. Remember that Orks grow based on the severity of the conflict they’re in. Fighting thunder warriors would’ve jump started their evolution into Krok levels.

[@TECH-HERESY]

​@canderoussnurd4265 your heretical insight is fully acknowledged. I enjoyed reading that

[@canderoussnurd4265]

@@TECH-HERESY The fallen have returned to the fold. The Lion issued the decree of forgiveness. There are no more heretics amongst our ranks. Simply Dark angels ready to serve the emperor and to hunt the beasts of the rift.

[@randyruger9063]

Space marine veterans who were around to destroy the Thunder Warriors, now watching the Primaris Marines rolling out :: surprised Pikachu face::

[@thatdoppioguy1825]

Not to be that guy but there is not a single space marine alive from that time period, at least loyalists

[@MrWarboy1945]

​​@@thatdoppioguy1825 Zabriel of the Dark Angels could be or could at least come close, he's an OG Terran born space marine who served for a century before Lion'el Johnson was even found back during the Great Crusade

[@thatdoppioguy1825]

@@joriankell1983 well if we are being technical, he isn't a space marine anymore he is a dreadnaught

[@LegendStormcrow]

​@@joriankell1983Bjorn is slightly younger than when the Thunder Warriors fell. It would have to specially be a Dark Angel.

[@LegendStormcrow]

​@@MrWarboy1945Maybe Zabriel, but it has to be a truly ancient Dark Angel of Terran stock.

[@guilherme5094]

I think the second option makes more sense. The Thunder Warriors were too risky a project and suited only to an era of savagery that Big E wanted to forget, the hilarious part is that for him there was no problem spreading savagery on an Interplanetary scale with new toys. The Emperor really is a great son of a beep. Great video man👍!

[@goreobsessed2308]

Yeah that's cause as far as he cares he's not spreading savagery but his glorious human empire. Remember before the heresy space marines learned sciences and arts alongside war

[@isaacfreeman1]

They're a logistic problem. Eversore assassin level of handling required tbh. If every chapter needed that, Bobby G would've necked himself for sure.

[@Halfort57]

Technically he only shared savagery with planets which told him to scram

[@honkhonk8009]

@@goreobsessed2308 Reminds me alot of Prussia. Their officers were unique in that they were the first armies to emphasize education so much.

[@hellatze]

also emperor : lets recuit angron and mortarion what possibly gone wrong

[@dirtyblonde1011]

For context as to how physically strong the T. Warriors were, they're the only canonically confirmed Imperial force that PARTIALLY powered armor - the legs weren't powered by anything other than raw muscle, meaning that they were holding ALL of the weight without the aid of servos. Even the Custodians and Primarchs don't do that. Now granted, the T. Warrior armor was technically the prototype to the MK1 Astartes armor, but still. Knowing that, it's entirely likely that the Custodians would have had a difficult fight on their hands without the element of surprise and assistance from what would later become the 1st Legion of the Astartes (both in terms of being the first legion made AND by being the specific legion given to The Lion).

[@honkhonk8009]

I wouldnt be surprised that if they were thrown into a meatgrinder to squeeze the last bit of usefulness outta em, they wouldv prolly defected aswell.

[@mkvenner2]

The thunder warriors were a sort of rush job genetically speaking and by the time they were purged almost all of them had cancers of varying stages or some sort of genetic degeneration. They also didn’t exactly hate the Emperor it was more like they were disappointed that they would not be by his side for the next stage, while they were not conditioned to be loyal they were completely committed to the Emperor’s goals of unification of not just Terra and the Sol system but of humanity as a whole. Some thunder warriors, probably the last batch created, would go on to become Astartes. As for the threat of chaos corruption I think they would have been at the very least slightly more resistant to it than Astartes mostly because they were deeply committed to the Imperial Truth of their own volition and not (solely) indoctrination.

[@gigabuck9091]

They would be as easy to corrupt as a regular human.

[@draketurtle4169]

@@gigabuck9091given roughly half the space marines fell to chaos… that isn’t exactly something to discredit the thunder warriors for. If they believed they were helping the Emporer they’d do it, much like an Ogryn can be manipulated or tricked.

[@TheHound402]

@@draketurtle4169 Half the Legions did not fall; half their Primarchs did.

[@cuongquan1633]

​@@TheHound402so with their legion duh

[@maltheri9833]

Istvan 3 just never happened huh 🤣

[@warhounds]

the end goal for great crusade was to make humanity so OP that we wont need any modfied super soldiers to win, the thunder warriors fought for themselves and the emperor

[@oldeskul]

The three reasons why the Emperor had to eradicate the Thunder Warriors: 1) They were a highly flawed prototype that was rushed. They'd die of cancers, their bodies ripping themselves apart and biological degradation. 2) They didn't do well with garrison duty. 3) They were a blunt instrument meant to batter Terra into submission.

[@LegendStormcrow]

Unlike Astartes, when the universe was brought to heel, there was no place for the thunder warriors. They were good for nothing but war.

[@idiom2805]

All of these get debunked with a simple: Then throw them at all the suicidal missions until there's nothing left.

[@oldeskul]

@@idiom2805 You mean the Battle of Mount Ararat? Where the Emperor wiped out nearly all of his remaining Thunder Warriors?

[@idiom2805]

@@oldeskul Did he, or did he not order his remaining thunder warriors to be put down like rabbid dogs instead of sending his loyal warriors to fight and die on the battlefield?

[@oldeskul]

@@idiom2805 He totally sent them to be put down. He might have even been directly involved in their extermination on Ararat. That drove the few surviving Thunder Warriors to hate him. If he had been forthright and honest with them, telling his Thunder Warriors that they were all degenerating and dying, and that he had no way to cure them. He could've given them the choice, to be executed right then and avoid dying in a painful way, or be put into stasis to be unleashed later against a greater threat out in the galaxy. I'm sure some would have chosen execution, some would have chosen stasis, and some would have attempted to flee, only to be hunted down later. Could you imagine how the War for Ullanor or the Horus Heresy would have gone if the Emperor had an army of Thunder Warriors to throw at the enemy? FAN FICTION WRITERS, TO YOUR KEYBOARDS!

[@ChaoticVoicesofAndreas]

JUSTICE FOR THE THUNDER WARRIORS!

[@Hyde-dg7ef]

yeah sure. if you define justice as the thunder warriors spending their last days in an insane bloodlust and their own body breaking down from the prolonged strain and concoction of battle stims, then yes justice for the thunder warriors

[@georgebeckham5150]

Do I detect the taint of heretical dissonance?

[@FarCraker]

They didn’t subscribed to the emperor’s onlyfans and followed him on his twitch and instagram, he couldn’t allow such disrespect

[@Caragoner]

To be honest i think it was a shame too. The Thunder warriors SCREAM Grimdark way more than the astartes. Would have been far more legendary to do something like lock them under the palace on Terra, then they could have gotten a legendary moment as a final stand in the Heresy charging out one last time for the Emperor, in all their fury and rage and power, against the Forces of Chaos, burning bright one last time.

[@hoked2194]

These guys were basically Rouge Trader era Space Marines.

[@SVVolley]

That would have been epic.

[@kronos661]

@@hoked2194 RT era SM could be described as an opressive mainly homosexual space police according to the materials from the setting but aside from that, they were just mortals.

[@Ironbattlemace]

​@@kronos661Lol what 😂 Elaborate

[@kronos661]

@@Ironbattlemace In a Rouge Trader continuity (that's how a 40k prototype was called) Space marines were literally a bunch of powered armor mercenaries, space ZOMO and escorts for a transport ships that invade mining planets cut off from the imperium. And they are known for liking each other a little too much to be hetero. Even a name of dark angels fortress monastery is the name of a certain bar (a little bit like blue oyster from police academy) that was next to the the GW headquaters back than.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

The Thunder Warriors were a creation meant to fight in the brutal Unification Wars and horrors of Old Night, and perhaps they were consider to be the Spear Tip of the Great Crusade for a time, but perhaps the Emperor saw something that made him disturb on the Thunder Warriors. Perhaps it was the unstable creation of the Thunder Warriors that made him realize that without the Geneseed of his Sons (who all have a warp deities for souls) couldn’t stabilize the madness and stagnation of the Thunder Warriors.

[@cadian122]

The Emperor could have just stopped making them and use the last of them up taking Luna and the rest of the Solar system

[@mkvenner2]

The thing about that is the Emperor needed to keep collateral damage to a minimum which is something that the thunder warriors are not very good at.

[@aetherlord1649]

for the parts about the astartes I think the emperor didn't really plan the heresy, he would have never wished for this catastrophe to happen, but it is more than conceivable that he made contigency plans to ensure the failure of any form of rebellion or betrayal by them. furthermore i think he didn't really wanted to exterminate all of the astartes and the primarch, I think there was a bit of lore somewhere that the emperor secretely built 20 palaces on terra , one for each of his sons, so he could enjoy eternity within the peace of the imperium with all of them.

[@Silverdeathpt]

I agree that the Thunder Warriors would be more trouble than it's worth to be deployed in the Great Crusade. The Emperor would probably have to set up special transport ships for them, transporting the Thunder Warriors in stasis until they reach the battle. However, what I don't understand is why the Emperor didn't put them in a stasis vault near the Imperial Palace or somewhere else on Terra? They could be kept in stasis up until they were needed for combat on Terra (like the siege of the Imperial Palace or the Webway). The Emperor could even have them equipped with more advanced Power Armor or even Terminator Armor (once it was developed) and the Thunder Warriors would turn alot of traitors into minced meat.

[@plastikloser]

Tldr: a sad rush job to quickly conquer. They would deteriorate and go insane, so the emperor had the custodes cut them down like a prick. While then perfected the method with gene seed and primarchs in the astartes

[@rollinfarmer6650]

How many swipes does it take to become a tinder warrior?

[@briansedlacek1963]

As many as it takes.. 😅😂

[@cadian122]

Lmao ahahahha

[@Jazzmigo]

good im not the only one who got more questions about theese Tinder Warriors

[@armi999]

I can definately see the Emperor deciding the Thunder Warriors wouldn't work in the great crusade. I do find it odd that he'd plan for the Space Marines to also eventually be eliminated. Even once you have the Empire all setup and working well, you'd still have a use for them to defend things. Even if for some reason there were not many foes left I'm pretty sure they'd behave and be more than happy to endlessly patrol till their numbers wore down.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

While he used the primarchs, the marines, and even himself as tools for mankinds survival. there are several hints that on a personal level within "the goal" he did love his sons and respect the marines. The thunder warriors were the prototype, and one seemingly put together quickly, and prototypes always have flaws. It made perfect logical sense to give the warriors a mix of culling and death in battle they would want even if it really can be seen as questionable. It makes no sense to kill off the completed model and their leaders when he knew about the necron, had hints to the nids, and the ork had yet to be utterly exterminated. To say little of wanting a bond, even on an unconcious level, with the primarchs who all had other abilities beyond war or any of the many other aliens to arise over the milena. I just don't think it was even on the cards for them to be killed off.

[@xeniosaias]

he should have allowed them death through glory. Many battles followed in the stars. This was betrayal!

[@LegendStormcrow]

Agreed. Throw them in cryp, pop them out, and dash them against a fortress.

[@canderoussnurd4265]

You ever seen a thunder warrior up close son…….. If you had…..and still drew breath by luck alone, you’d take great comfort in knowing they no longer lived. Some things are only capable of task. Theirs, was destruction. Ours was to build and preserve. You would do kind to remember that Initiate. -Captain Canderous Snurdicus 1st Legion, Dark Angels Death wing

[@Fourtytwo4242]

​​@@canderoussnurd4265 a fucking dark angel saying that runs deep into how brutal these monsters were. If the emperor's exterminators says they were too brutal...yeah best they stay dead.

[@dawall3732]

I think he would have been better served to hurl the thunderwarriors at Luna and Mars conquering Mars outright. It would have destroyed most if not all of the thunderwarriors. It would have also saved him a lot of trouble in the future, including denying his rebellious sons resources in the future. On Tara and Luna, he made the offer join or die. Where Mars is concerned, he uses trickery. That was a mistake, which came to bite him in the end.

[@dawall3732]

I would really like to know how 40K would be different. If the Emperor had not slaughtered the thunder warriors. Instead had used them to conquer Luna and Mars outright. How would that have changed the heresy?

[@00yiggdrasill00]

The problem with using them to take mars and luna is the sheer collateral damage. He needed those gene labs and industry intact otherwise the crusade would have been set back centuries that couldn't be spared with the rangdans, orks and a few others really on the rise. Keep in mind the crusade as a whole was very quick and a bit messy with a few close calls because the schedule was so very tight. I'm not really sure there was a better outcome for the thunder warriors than what they got. It would definitely have been better for the emperor later on to leave them to die slowly and painfully because it would remove the fear some had of being replaced, but in a way that can be seen as an even greater betrayal by the warriors themselves. He didn't foresee how the echoes of this and the last church would play out, and that seems to have been his real failure to me. Too much optimism in our positive traits and too much pessimism for our negative traits.

[@user-pp9kn5ye6d]

their thunder cheeks clapped too hard the manperor cant have his beauty sleep

[@jikjikrodriguez]

Well they didn't kill them all...Endryd Haar was converted into a Firstborn Astartes. Presumably, other thunder warriors were converted as well (looks at Tyberos the Red Wake and heretically wonders...) but the procedure must have a high fail rate or was too cost prohibitive to enact so it was more effective to cull the Thunder Warriors.

[@edwardayala4314]

Well the other issues were that they were degenerating and either going mentally insane and attacking anyone, allies or not, or they just died a slow death. Better to have put the horse out of their misery than prolong it. The fear that history would have repeated with the introduction of Primaris marines was quickly dismissed when the rubricon procedure was available.

[@KCUFyoufordoxingme]

His size is massively over exaggerated by the Fandom.

[@sukmykrok3388]

They were too good at what they did. Once their usefulness was over, they became expendable. Seen as a waste of resources. Kinda reminds me of the corporate world, lol!

[@joshuagraham2843]

Clone wars order 66

[@originalbastav7346]

​@@joshuagraham2843That sounds.....scarringly accurate!!

[@joshuagraham2843]

@@originalbastav7346it is, trust me The emperor may be cold heartless man but in reality he needed more army but better quality He knows thunder warriors were useful once for the unification wars, they were unstable warriors needed to be eradicated It was sad but at least these guys wont see horus heresy incident.

[@nickmetoyer3015]

Reminds me of every communist regime.

[@alannatherson7721]

There is one Thunder Warrior left kept in a prison that time itself cannot pierce in a vault kept by a lord who would preserve him for all time. But here me for it has been seen in visions granted by the Emperor himself, there will come a dark day when the traitor forces will descend on Terra once more in a great battle where countless heroes will rise and fall, a battle where even those who the Imperium would call enemies would answer the call and stand beside humanity's final champions to beat back the great evil eating away at our universe, and in that battle the Despoiler most vile and most hated will fight his way past the Eternity Gate and into the Throne Room itself only to find his way blocked not by a member of the Angels of Death or the 10000, but the Last Soldier of Unification. And it will be then when the Betrayer shall face the Betrayed in a duel that will determine the fate of the galaxy.

[@Caragoner]

That would be fuckin PEAK just having Tryzan the infinite scream "RANDOM BULLSHIT GO" and sending out all his toys against chaos. This is one of the parts I would kill for, that and Clone Fulgrim out there

[@erichironsson8592]

**hear me**

[@alannatherson7721]

@@erichironsson8592 If I'm going to be honest, I'm surprised that's the only spelling issue.

[@harkenrebirth]

I think it was just.. Mercy. The Thunder Warriors were defective. They could die any time. Explode. Go insane. And die in horrifying ways. Killing them in one last battle.. The way warriors like them would have liked to die. iNstead of dying from nothing.They died like warriors. On the battlefield. In one last grand battle against the Space Marines and Custodees. They showed how strong they were.. And just what kind of warriors they are.

[@sokratikas]

Thunder warriors were brutal and single minded,they were what the emperor needed for the unification wars,but after tyat they would be redundant. Too single minded,too unstable and and actually dying,the Emperor needed soldiers,a weapon more controllef and easly produced,enter the astartes. Astartes are in all meaningful ways an improvement,what they lack in resilience/strenght they made up with skill and intelligence. The main reason the war hounds lost many men against thrm is that they were brawlers type of melee legion,played right into the thunder warriors advantages over astartes

[@Machoman50ta]

People forget they were an experiment that got lucky to have shined for as long as they did ,they were going crazy with time eventually would become useless/dangerous emperor honestly mercy killed them

[@Hyde-dg7ef]

Yeah I never understood why people go up to arms when it comes to how the thunder warriors were killed off. Like yes, that is tragic but the alternative is them going insane and bloodthirsty as their bodies literally collapse and fail

[@Machoman50ta]

@@Hyde-dg7ef exactly my brother

[@cadian122]

​@@Hyde-dg7efwhy not let them die due to battlefield attrition in the Solar Conquest?

[@Hyde-dg7ef]

@@cadian122 if by solar conquest, you mean the emperor conquering the solar system, well remember how the thunder warriors become insane and unstable over time? that was an issue when the thunder warriors were busy taking over earth. now imagine trying to stablize said thunder warriors but theyre at another planet. the thunder warriors were not meant to be the final product. they were just a stop gap that worked really well for their purpose, ie taking over earth another minor point i would put up is the power armor. thunder warrior armor (also known as mk 1 pattern) wasn't vaccuum sealed which means it's useless for the void of space and every suit of mk 1 armor was different in some way which would've been a major pain in the ass for logistics. meanwhile, crusade pattern power armor (also known as mk 2 pattern), the first power armor for the modern astartes, was vaccuum sealed and is standardized, which ofc eased logistics and meant that astartes could fight in virtually any environment now why couldnt emps have the mk1 power armor also be vaccuum sealed? prolly bc as said before, every mk1 armor was personalized and unique for the wearer so trying to outfit a vaccuum seal for all of them would be too time consuming and resource wasting

[@cadian122]

@@Hyde-dg7ef but Luna or Saturn are relatively close

[@weeaboobaguette3943]

The thunder warrior culling makes no sense since they could have just been used in some brutal engagement and have been disposed of that way. With the Emperor leading them personally, no risk of chaos corruption before their death. The establishment of a year 0 would be trivial through manipulation of historical records. But, if the space marine civil war was planned, then the culling of the thunder warriors was vital for one specific reason : a concrete argument as to the ( potential ) fate of space marines, in favour of the rebels. And Horus did use that argument, and it did sway a number of primarchs.

[@weeaboobaguette3943]

@lukeBryen2The point is that the rebels needed to believe it to rebel.

[@honkhonk8009]

@lukeBryen2 True. Look at the depictions of them. Psychotic berserkers in armour rambling about some imperial truth while rushing headfirst into battle.

[@gigabuck9091]

@lukeBryen2 thunderwarriors have all the emotions and wants x10 of a regular human. now imagine yourself as the primarch general of the thunderwarriors riddled with cancer, you see new astartes cancer free and can almost live an immortal life. you think to yourself "hey why would the emperor not give us the gift of immortality too? I should rebel and start a civil war!"

[@MARStheFORSAKEN]

What happens to the hammer when there are no more nails?

[@mkvenner2]

They were more nails like a galaxy full of them but the problem was that due to their unstable genetics only a few could be candidates to become Space Marines

[@MARStheFORSAKEN]

@@mkvenner2 yup they where old news the emperor had no use for outdated models so he discarded them video killed the radio star

[@sygmarvexarion7891]

You kidding?! It's the 40K universe, there are always nails.

[@PhumDuck]

Bro whoever voiced the Thunder Warrior in the clip with Valdor did fucking amazing

[@feliperodriguez6885]

every time you thunder it sounds like tinder, tinder worriors. that's a whole different kind of worriors.

[@AvernusAblaze]

I'm late to this but I don't think the Chaos threat was worse with the Thunder Warriors. In Outcast Dead the Thousand Sons legionary present tries to read the mind of one of the Thunder Warriors and recoils in pain, describing the mind as something like a fortress of barbed wire (I can't recall exactly) and it hurts him to even look. That makes it sound like they were even more well protected than Astartes. Plus Arik Taranis shows a devotion to the Emperor even after the events of Mount Ararat, saying that he hopes the genetic defects in the Thunder Warriors were not deliberate, which might just mean he was especially devoted but I got the impression the thunder warriors blamed Valdor, rather than the emperor for the betrayal.

[@sneed915]

I think big E just wanted slaves not equals. He wanted his ordered followed unquestionably no thoughts of their own because idle minds breed contempt. Ironic that primarchs his 'sons' who he allowed free thought shattered not only his dream but his entire plan. In the end big E had only himself to blame for what happens because no matter how you try slaves always revolt eventually.

[@JosephSchmidt-hm2vo]

One thing I always never Understood about this section of 40k lore is why does the emperor seem so hesitant to use his power during this period. If Big E wanted to he could have conquered terra in a couple hours by virtue of his own psychic might. And he didn't need to do some grimdark order 66 on the thunderwarriors, he could have just shut down all their brains instantly with his mind powers, killing them humanely. But he just opted for the grimdark option of custodes cutting down their own brothers. Is there a lore reason for this?

[@lborlet5204]

From a purely pragmatic perspective, having the custodes and astartes do it allowed the emperor to see how space marines would fare against an enemy that is physically stronger than them, but that they outnumber. It simultaneously cleans up the loose end

[@Caragoner]

What was said above but also because GW fucking sucks at writing. They choose to do "grimdark" for it's own sake rather than making it feel natural, they instead force it and it cripples their characters often and makes them unsatisfying.

[@velstadtvonausterlitz2338]

​@@Caragoner 🙄

[@Caragoner]

​@@velstadtvonausterlitz2338 Im not sure why you're rolling your eyes. I'm entitled to my own opinion and there's lots of examples of really shit Writing GW let's slip through like "Warrior Coven" which was a fuckin fever dream

[@schibleh531]

40k's lore isn't known for making sense. You have marines dying by the hundreds in one moment, and then you have 5 marines conquering the eye of terror. It's incredibly inconsistent, especially during the early days and the magnificent WARD era. Every writer wrote what he wanted with no regard for continuity or lore. Also, everything was ill-defined back then. A marine could be as strong as a halo spartan, or as strong as hercules on demigod steroids.

[@Frankabyte]

This is essentially a take on the good old fashioned Frankenstein story: Mad scientist creates powerful being(s), said creation would prove to be too much to handle or unfit to exist, and the mad scientist would end up having to destroy it, although in this case, the Emperor actually succeeded in wiping them from existence whereas the Doctor would fail.

[@josephflynn9792]

Possibly an unpopular opinion here, but I think big E gave the Thunder Warriors the best fate he could have. They were all going to die slow painful deaths. Deaths that no thunder warrior would want as it wouldn’t be very glorious. So instead he gave them a battle he knew they would never lose. He sucker punched them to make sure that they died feeling like they could have won if they had been fought fair. He also did his best to lose as few other units in doing so. In summary he did the best he could to give them a death they would be proud of without incurring any more costs than was needed.

[@ellisoberg8205]

Yo dutch you should join the vc in yur server from time to time! Its your server but we all barely know you! Its a vibe.

[@ellisoberg8205]

Also you rule

[@Dutch40KGuy]

I will good sir! (when I have time)

[@ellisoberg8205]

@@Dutch40KGuyyay! May time be in your favour!

[@EvilFuzzy9]

Realistically, he needed to eliminate them before the remaining ones realized how short their time left was and turned on him.

[@weediestbroom]

I'm glad to have found another lore channel that does NOT have an AI generated voice. Images are fine but I'm sick of hearing David Attenborough's robot twin

[@wellthatsokay8582]

Why did the emperor killed the Tinder Warriors. Yes indeed.

[@davidraper5798]

Too unstable for the Emperor's planned conquests but too dangerous to be simply left.

[@gunslinger1911a1]

I hate to say it, but it like what was meant to be the fate of the Astartes, is always in place. Malcador tells Horus before his fall, flatly. "The Imperium of Man is for Men, to be led by and ruled by Men, under the Emperor. It it's for you." Then Horus has a hissy fit and Malcador tells him "You prove my point." They were a means to an end.

[@commissaryarrick9670]

Honestly he could have just let them die out naturally . There was no reason to kill them he had already stopped making them . If they would have tried something crazy then he could righteously take them out

[@cadian122]

Or use them up in the Solar Conquest

[@mkvenner2]

Dying out natural for most Thunder Warriors would have been very painful from the multiple different cancers, organ failures and genetic degeneration this was a mercy.

[@Kabosche]

I like how your accent makes "Thunder Warriors" sound like "Tender Warriors" to me! In my mind I keep picturing proto-Astartes with Care Bear symbols on their power armor!😂 That gives me an idea for a home-brew chapter that would make the Salamanders look downright heartless!

[@temmy9]

The astartes were simply better. Sure, 1 on 1 the thunder warriors could defeat an astartes. But army for army the astartes are superior

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

Many Thunder Warriors knew they would die, even if they survived they would have preferred to mean their end by the sword than anything else, dying in battle was the very last honor afforded to them,

[@lloydgush]

Because he wanted to test the custodes.

[@raphie8488]

The Thunder Warriors rebelled and thats why he had to destroy them. We know that he originaly intended his sons, the Primarchs to lead humans into the stars. After Erda took them from him he conceived the plan to built the Astartes. With the Atartes there was no need to create new Thunder Warriors, he had a more stable fighting force. The Thunder Warriors where not happy about it and neither was Astarte, so they rebelled, each for their own reasons. Forcing the Emperor to kill them instead of letting them die off with time.

[@jytte-hilden]

Hasn't anyone considered that Games Workshop wanted to retcon the Rogue Trader moronic muscle head space marines into the noble astartes, and that the lore reflects this exactly, carried out by none other than the avatar of GW, the Emperor himself? It was an edition upgrade both in real life and in lore. Most meta meta ever.

[@anonymanonymer2548]

Human sacrifice to gain the primarch souls from the warp. Everything about the Emperor is about human sacrifice. He was created from the sacrifice of human shamans. He sacrificed the Thunder Warriors in order to get the primarch souls and he will sacrifice the original space marines, using the primaris marines, probably to be reborn.

[@anonymanonymer2548]

Also would be cool if this coincides with the dark eldar trying to clone the emperor. Like they clone him and suddenly all space marine chapters are summoned directly to Commorragh and the onslaught decimates both sides until it's enough for the emperor to claim the clone body. Suddenly the primaris turn on the original space marines and dark eldar. The emperor descends into the clone, activates their dark throne and obliterates Commorragh with everyone present. Then the space becomes a new home for mankind. Destroying the Dark Eldar and achieving the final goal of getting webway space for mankind.

[@MajorHuck]

The was that Horus Heresy book the had a couple of thunder warrior characters, i think one escaped, but they killed astartes pretty easy. Was cool reading that, wish they had more lore on the one that escaped

[@ProcyonDei]

Something tells me that the Thunder Warriors would have been a bit too much like the Orkz, a product of a far more savage time where most of them would just degrade if placed in the more different environment that would be the Imperium...

[@TheHound402]

I think , in addition to all your excellent points, that it would have demoralized the Astartes Legions to have these brutal giants, who are superior warrior 1 on 1, amongst them.

[@carrierofplagues]

Ok, so a Thunder Warrior is stronger than a normal Space Marine, but how strong are they compared to a Primaris?

[@Miron_Marnic]

Still stronger.

[@huntermad5668]

They could trade blows with Custodes so very strong but way below in other areas

[@NecrosTheDark]

To the emperor this massacre was just switching a tool. He laid down the hammer he used to hammer together terra and picked up the screwdriver needed to screw together the loose parts of the former human colonies. He is not an overly caring god.

[@stertrack520]

I think we need to put ourselfs in the Emperor's shoes for 5 secs. You generated legions of killers very effective yes but not meant to last. You know that and see that, most of those warriors are not even close of looking like a human. However you manage to take back terra and its ressources. You then proceed to start working with what you have at your disposal. Turns out you have enough to make new super warriors. They are more versatile and more durable. It is a good start and you start experimenting. You create the first 2 legions. Marvelous. It works as you imagine. Then you start the 3rd one. And ... it does not work as plan. Not at all. They seem to ve infected by somekind of virus that no matter what you do wont go away. You try again and again yet nothing works. Then you think for a moment terra is limited and so are its ressources. You can t kill two birds with the stone you have. It is either way you save your thunder warriors unreliable élément who wont take well the brand new astartes. The only certenty being that they will be a pain in your ass. Or you save you super soldiers who looks like angels and who will be able to make you crusade moraly relatable and just even tho short lived and less powerful. You dont even feel the need to sight. The answer is obvious you kill the thunder warriors and keep the new soldiers. The thunder warriors are just not worth your ressources being spent away. You think about sending them in space fight orks then you realise warp isnt to pleased with you and would try kidnapp your weird muder boys away from you. So yeah it is better to kill them on terra directly. It is simple ressource management.

[@Frosty_Jay]

The Astartes would have met the same fate if the Emperor had reached his goals, a great culling has always been the prize for his best warriors. Duty only ends in death.

[@TheManWhoStoleTheShadows]

0:56 Are there canonical references to female thunder warriors? If so I'm actually down for it this time.

[@DD8842]

Ww need more of these guys. Proto space marines with attitude

[@beerasaurus]

They served their purpose and they were no longer needed.

[@walterlopez5054]

so what happens when Cawl digs out the Thunder Warrior Geneseed and starts making Primaris Thunderbois with it?

[@markstewardson4006]

Thunder warriors didn't use geneseed that is space marines only. Thunder warriors were like adeptus custodes in that they were biological and genetically altered just with none of the care that the Custodes had. Custodes on a budget essentially. Cawl could probably dust off the recipe but it would not surprise me if the Emperor purged it from all records

[@Dimetropteryx]

Logistics was a much more pressing issue during the Unification Wars. If it wasn't a valid reason then, it wouldn't have been later on. There were plenty of battles he could have spent them on, like he did indiscriminately with everyone else. They were conspicuously insensitive to Chaos, witches, psykers and the Warp, maintaining their ability to function through situations that would have cause normal soldiers to become useless, as seen in Birth of the Imperium, The Outcast Dead and Dreams of Unity. They plowed through Warp users during the Unification Wars, what conditioning would have been necessary after that. And as I always have to point out when this issue arises, the Emperor could force the entire Word Bearers legion to kneel, but he had to ambush a handful of Thunder Warriors. The title of Primarch was not symbolic, it was based on merit. And again, the Imperium fields plenty of unmodified humans as well as abhumans in vastly larger numbers. Keeping people loyal is not a matter of genetics, it's a matter of leadership. Adaptability to diverse environments? Terra was virtually a death world, and this requirement didn't exist for any other forces than Astartes. The real reason could have been that they simply knew too much about Chaos after what they faced during the Unification Wars to risk the knowledge spreading.

[@Wimpiethe3]

The reason is foreshadowing. Giving the trairor's cause a bit more oomph. But that's not an in universe explanation.

[@alexanderschulz7924]

Because GW had not the full copyright of the first Space Marine Sculps...😅

[@shipmate3577]

I want to build a Thunder Warrior / Minotaur army!

[@BartEmbregts]

Love seeing a fellow dutch 40k fan. I'm curious, which army do you play?

[@adamkaneshiro]

awesome video! i learned a lot from this one! i have to admit that everytime i heard "tinder warriors" i giggled😂

[@TheDeathskull37]

Justice for the Tinder Warriors!

[@Justin-mw7sy]

The thunder warriors needed to die for a good story. So many better options existed that the emperor could have done, but this made for a better “grim dark” story and this was a warning to what the emperor really was like that games workshop wanted as their titular character.

[@augiechiavuzzi4907]

Because the thunder warriors weren't bred for loyalty and obedience like Marines are

[@d1sregard662]

Because he is a false god that sits on a throne of lies and promises enlightenment but seeks only submission?

[@A_sentient_Rubiks_cube]

Yes inquisition, this comment right here.

[@d1sregard662]

@@A_sentient_Rubiks_cube XD

[@Significantharrassment]

That's nice and all guardsman but mind checking that wall for me for a sec?

[@d1sregard662]

@@Significantharrassment damn that's mighty fine wall

[@theguardlorenzo5898]

I think they are just the minotaurs chapter which is why they seem not only very keen to take on other astartes but they are more prone to obey the high lords of terra than primarchs and custodes, even when the former conspirate against the later

[@icklemoo]

Cawl could probably make some new ones for comedy value to send out into the void

[@moodyowlproductions4287]

Time to bring the tinder warriors to there knees...haha

[@zachall101]

A question….if the thunder warriors has been alive at the time of the Horus heresy, would that have saved the emperor of man, or would they all have been corrupted and joined against him 🤔

[@The-godemperor]

It could’ve gone many different ways because how insane they really were

[@coreyspofford4166]

their name implies why they were killed they would not stop farting

[@MuadDab]

I’ve always kind of thought that it was as simple as a first impression. If you’re the leader of a planet subject to the Emperors crusade, are you more likely to turn your people over to the Ultramarines or the Thunder Warriors? I think the had to be the Big E’s calculus. Even though the thunder warriors were better to withstand Chaos, they were ultimately imperfect heralds of a new age of humanity.

[@briansedlacek1963]

Tinder Warriors! 😂😂🤣🤣

[@barbados3592]

didn't see the video but off the top of my head, Id guess because the character of the emperor had just perfected the astartes slave soldiers and saw free willed gene warriors as a potential liability, so he came up with some half assed rationalization and murdered them all. because at the end of the day he's a complete and total monster.

[@VaanJoku]

"Tinder Warriors"

[@212caboose]

I would have just kept using them until they were all expended, instead of purging them. Why waste resources purging them?! Always seemed to be a weird choice to me.

[@erichoughton4128]

The Astartes, primarchs, custodes, thunder warriors are all tools of the Emperor to be used n discarded as he sees fit. Welcome to the grim dark future.

[@markstewardson4006]

Part of me has always wondered if the Emperor was simply ashamed of what he created with the Thunder Warriors and purged them to keep that secret from the rest of the galaxy. He would rather be seen as the lord of the perfect Custodes and noble Space Marines than the creator of the monstrous Thunder Warriors.

[@Fi5hb0n342]

This was a tiny well put together video but your accent make it sound like your saying tinder warriors and it makes me laugh

[@evanlindsey1100]

I once read a theory that the Thunder Warriors and some Digganobs were converted into Angry Marines.

[@kamchatmonk]

Astartes and their primarchs, unlike Thunder Warriors, were not solely designed for combat. Like their primarchs, Astartes were also artisans, artists, and scholars. Dorn, Perturabo, Vulkan and Ferrus Manus were masters of artifice. Fulgrim was a charismatic diplomat, so was Horus. Magnus was supposed to become Astronomicon, taking his place on a complete, undamaged Golden Throne that would amplify his powers. The rest also had their intended uses, but most were corrupted and damaged by Erda's scattering. Lorgar was likely meant to sprwad Imperial Truth and educate people rather than be a religious fanatic.

[@erwinmalimban2197]

All I hear is Tinderwarriors😂

[@janwitts2688]

Should have just cryo stored them until needed...

[@theamericanviking1835]

I love the scene in the book The Outcast Dead when the group named such are in the, hell i forget what the place was called where the civis where praying to death and burning their dead, a spirit is brought fourth from the statue there and the outcast dead are fighting it and Babu Dhakal walks in, just towering over everyone, even the Space Marines from the outcast dead group. That really put into perspective how fucking big those dudes were. It's even wilder since Ghota was bigger than the huge ass Death Guard Orhu Gythua, and Babu Dhakal was even bigger than Ghota! Like what the fuck, aint no way the space marines would win where the odds are 1 to 1 against the Thunder Warriors!

[@wiggy5209]

They were becoming more and more degenerate ..quicker and quicker .....they wouldn't have accepted being kept in chains

[@ElysiumNZ]

I’m pretty sure the lore has mentioned that the Thunder Warriors were very unstable and suffered from things like cancer etc… Basically their bodies were failing them so their demise was inevitable anyway.

[@the5thcourier833]

The emperor wouldn’t have killed the marines off I don’t think, they were far too numerous and coordinated especially with the primarchs. He’d likely keep the Lion, Girlyman, Russ,Sangy and whoever else remained loyal as deterrence or if anything else that threatens humanity comes around *cough* Bugs *Cough*

[@mitchhaelann9215]

Information control. He couldn't afford to have anyone who knew who he really was and what he had done spreading stories that conflict with his official narrative. Also couldn't afford his new projects (Custodians, Primarchs, and Astartes) comparing themselves to their predecessors. That said: I'm a massive fanfic writer and storyteller. I created dozens of home-made chapters, IG regiments, and even minor Xenos races to populate a homebrewed subsector on the edge of the Segmentum Tempestus. Deep in this region, the Krylan Salient, is a dark secret: A small 'nation' of five worlds in defiance of Imperial Truth, ruled by a cruel matriarchy. But they long ago captured a scouting vessel carrying Thurtec Wildrider, one of the last living Thunder Warriors who escaped the purge, even stealing Astartes genetic secrets to prolong his life. The Matriarchy took him, and used him as a template to enhance, arm, and armor their warriors.

[@ExplainedGoodly]

PRAISE BE TO THE GODS OF COGS AND WHEELS!

[@TheDukeofDeath666]

thunder warriors are more badass than astartes, like they are mini custodes, and in my opinion warhammer 40k should have been about them, but grimdark i guess, still such cool ass folks

[@thijshagenbeek6554]

The Thunder Warriors gave the Emperor Terra. The Unification Wars were terrible. Its kind of intensity not seen untill Horus Lupercal actually laid siege again to the throneworld. The Thunderwarriors gave themselves body and soul so Terra could see the dream of unity achieved under the Raptoris Imperialis. These men were the ones who more then any other pulled Terra from the deep dark nightmare Old Night had left it in. Once they had achieved their objective and Terra belonged to the Emperor their succesors, the Adeptus Astartes were allready in development. The end these warriors got was undeserved. Instead of being herded together like cattle on Mount Arrarat to be slaughtered they should be told truthfuly by the Emperor that their design was imperfect. That they should be put in Stasis, resting on Terra, the planet they conquered for Him with one singular objective. If Terra ever was threatened again, by anyone they should then be unleashed. A contingency of thousands of veteran warriors who could then earn the death in defence of the Unity they fought so hard to achieve. They would have died in the Siege of Terra, guaranteeing them a place in Imperial History greater even then the Old One-Hundred of the Imperial Army. Instead they have been used as target practise by the Emperor to see if the Astartes and his Custodes were as capable as he thought them to be. They deserved better, its a theme you find in Imperial history again and again. Angron deserved better. Perturabo deserved better and many many more deserved better. But above them all, the Thunder Legions who conquered Terra, Deserved better most.

[@bennyx1281]

Is there a 40k novel about the thunder warriors?

[@Griblax]

Because paying pension, wouldnt have been an Option.😅

[@User107D]

Love the thunder warriors and was a total waste to kill them, the Emperor should just put them in stasis and use them as shock troops in the Great Crusade

[@genericscout5408]

Then Chaos could open the stasis and recruit them enmasse. 40k has situations where Imperial assets are used to fight them. If the Imperium had better lock and key systems it would make sense to keep them around.

[@hiidontknow5726]

Where can I find that excerpt at the end??

[@mkvenner2]

Valdor First Lord of the Imperium novel

[@yaeMhay1]

All I hear is "Tinder Warriors"?