The problem with recycling electric car batteries

For years, we have been promised that batteries from electric vehicles are recyclable. With eye-watering efficiencies of more than 90% of recovered materials such as nickel, cobalt and lithium. In a lab environment yes, but are these numbers actually achievable on a commercial scale?
#PlanetA #EVbattery #recycling
We're destroying our environment at an alarming rate. But it doesn't need to be this way. Our new channel Planet A explores the shift towards an eco-friendly world - and challenges our ideas about what dealing with climate change means. We look at the big and the small: What we can do and how the system needs to change. Every Friday we'll take a truly global look at how to get us out of this mess.
Follow Planet A on TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@dw_planeta?la...
Credits:
Reporter: Kai Steinecke
Camera: Florian Kroker
Video Editor: Markus Mörtz
Supervising Editors: Malte Rohwer-Kahlmann & Michael Trobridge
Fact Check: Kirsten Funck
Thumbnail: Em Chabridon
Read More:
Different types of battery recycling
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Current challenges and opportunities of lithium-ion battery recycling
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
Forecast lithium-ion battery recycling market
www.statista.com/statistics/1...
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:50 Mechanical Battery Recycling
02:27 (Black Mass) Chemical Purification
05:58 Problems with Upscaling
10:27 Conclusion

[@tommclean7410]

Interesting! If battery manufacturers were made financially responsible for the recycling then there would be more motivation to standardize batteries for the recycling process.

[@ua420]

Here in Ukraine we are buying lots of damaged(totaled) Tesla cars from US. Some are restored others are dismantled to parts. Batteries often reused as home batteries or rebuilt as battery packs for FPV drones sent to unwanted guests coming from the east.

[@vidpetrovic8907]

Unwanted guests comming from the west. I found this comment funny, but sad at the same time.

[@larryc1616]

​@@vidpetrovic8907from the EAST!

[@AG-ig8uf]

@@vidpetrovic8907 East, not West

[@Philip-hv2kc]

​@@vidpetrovic8907 from the east.

[@skunkjobb]

@@vidpetrovic8907 No, from the east just as he said.

[@CrackDavidson1]

H2S is not sulfuric acid (So4), but hydrogen sulfide, which evolves when sulfuric acid (or sulfates) is reduced in low oxygen environments.

[@CrackDavidson1]

@@shadowmistress999 yeah, that is absolutely what he meant, but the list on the screen showed sulfuric acid as (H2S). Which is different, but yes can reduce into that. HF would need fluorine (which I suppose can be present in the black mass).

[@DWPlanetA]

Thanks for spotting this! You're right, at 3:54 we wrote Sulphuric Acid (H2S). But we meant Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S). Apologies for the mistake.

[@JerryMau5]

@@DWPlanetA

[@CrackDavidson1]

@@DWPlanetA No worries at all. :)

[@KP-xi4bj]

@@DWPlanetA Back to the editing room!

[@samuxan]

The process shown here are not unlike the process to turn the ore that's mined into the original raw materials, that's something that rarely is talked about. the main reason this can be more expensive than mining is that the process are not in scale yet

[@augustovasconcellos7173]

And they won't be in scale for quite some time. Because there is more ore to go around than discarded batteries. And there will be more ore than waste for _a long time._ Economies of scale will always work in favor of making brand-new goods as opposed to recycling old ones. Recycling can only be competitive when two conditions are met. Condition number one: recycling the material involved less expensive and complex steps than making new material from natural resources. Condition number two: the processes of recycling and producing material are similar enough that you can use much of the same refining equipment for both, even mixing scraps with raw materials in your batches. Glass, steel, and aluminium are among the few materials that fulfill both criteria. Plastics, fine chemicals, and alkaline metals (the critical component of batteries) do not.

[@smallpeople172]

@@augustovasconcellos7173at the moment, worldwide there is almost 200X the amount of battery waste compared to battery production capacity. Even the very first generation electric cars are still basically untouched, not being recycled at all. As of now, less than 2% of electric car batteries get recycled, and less than 1% of all total electric car batteries in history have been recycled.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

​@@augustovasconcellos7173 this is when regulations requiring batteries to be recycled can tip the balance, even if the market by itself would favour mining.

[@MarcelloFerrara95]

​@@augustovasconcellos7173another condition: recycling gets mandatory by law.. (here in Italy the producers of plastic have to pay for recycling it as well, at least the recyclable ones)

[@xelaxander]

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 Agreed, we need regulations on two fronts: Disassembly procedures and put a cost on discarding batteries without recycling.

[@bartmannn6717]

Here is a quite crazy idea: Develop und upscale it with constant government subsidies. In Germany, there are massive subsidies for coal, kerosine, I think even for the car industry.

[@TheAllMightyGodofCod]

That's a nice idea and I will get behind it however... You are assuming that it is possible to develop a commercially viable process for recycling, before we have a big problem with non recycled batteries and that might not be possible.... Or the process might end up being terrible for the environment...

[@johndoyle4723]

I worked in chemical recycling for 30 years, rogue materials in your inputs can play havoc with the process and can be very difficult to detect. We used shredders at the start of the process which worked very well until a drum of waste from say a car repair shop had a starter motor dropped in it and kiss goodbye to your shredder blades. The recycling industry is very innovative, and I am sure when there are enough scrap batteries available then the process will be sorted.

[@davidnika446]

We do not expect starter motors to mixed in with electric car batteries.

[@3abxo390]

What part of starter motors breaks shredder blades? 😮

[@skunkjobb]

I have used several shredders for relatively soft material but they have low rpm and torque measurement on the motors so they stop instead of being damaged if there is some hard object that they can't chew.

[@davidnika446]

@@skunkjobb Low torque? I'm perplexed about that part. Torque and hp are related, but a shredder seems like a high torque device.

[@MDUD777]

I work in One of European battery recycling company and i can confirm that it’s quite a lot of a process :)

[@larryc1616]

The Chinese do it the best

[@martythemartian99]

@@larryc1616 No, the Chinese TELL us that they do it best, which is different.😵‍💫

[@larryc1616]

@martythemartian99 that would be everyone else. China just do not tell

[@martythemartian99]

@@larryc1616 True they keep a lot of secrets, but they do love to constantly tell us how great they are. You know... like the Americans do.

[@davidnika446]

Which company? What you do there? What's your name? (It's super easy to say stuff on the internet.) Also, how many processes does it take to recycle a gasoline car engine?

[@jeremygibbs7342]

The fact so many batteries are findong a second life and being reused as home battery storage is really good! Certainly the question/challenge is in having an industry ready to recycle those batteries when they inevatibly need to be recycled.

[@jeffheiner]

Thank you for sharing what the actual process really looks like. We need to figure out how to make batteries, that are designed for recycling. maybe make recycling easier and safer for the workers. But recycling in general is a big step!

[@DWPlanetA]

Glad it was helpful!🤞 If you want to see more videos like these, subscribe to our channel, we post new videos every Friday 😊

[@DougGrinbergs]

1:46 blackmass 8:43 many battery chemistries 10:12 old EV batteries being used in second-life applications,👍 delaying need for recycling

[@stevengill1736]

Absolutely - I'd love to have a set of those used Li batteries for our stand-alone solar system!

[@MrCaiobrz]

Yeah, if the batteries are lasting longer and being used, that shoudln't be considered a problem, that is actually good news.

[@vernonbrechin4207]

I hope there is more emphasis placed on repurposing used batteries. There are still new lithium battery chemistries that may soon be marketed. One includes sulfur.

[@rwstavros]

The only way to make it economically feasible is to charge the initial users of the battery a recycling fee, just like cans and bottles.

[@ElectricEvan]

What about the PFAS in the batteries? Your only talking about the metal recovery.

[@Netherlands031]

So how does recycling compare to mining? Surely to extract high purity metals from ore is even more difficult

[@philbiker3]

Mining is much much easier and cheaper. And well established.

[@Netherlands031]

@@philbiker3 what makes it easier and cheaper? You probably also have to dissolve the minerals and purify then in some way

[@philbiker3]

@@Netherlands031 It depends on so many factors and can be different from mine to mine and recycling center to recycling center; and different materials are easier or harder to recycle. Steel is super easy and cheap to recycle, so is aluminum. Both of those metals are recycled all over the world super efficiently because it's cheaper and easier to recycle than it is to mine and refine. This video we are commenting on explains how difficult all these specific materials from batteries are to recycle. They're not like the steel and aluminum that can just be melted down. The biggest reason that it's easier and cheaper to mine is that the industrial infrastructure is already in place at scale and well understood. Nothing new has to be built, it's already in use all over the world. Perhaps in the future when there are more batteries to recycle economies of scale will make it cheaper and easier to recycle these battery components.

[@petrichor259]

​@@Netherlands031The massive quantity being mined makes it cheap

[@richdobbs6595]

@@Netherlands031 The mines produce streams that have a more consistent impurity profile. Also, no one is expecting mines to recover 99 percent of the metal in the ore, if it is not profitable. Practical recycling would be roughly separate the components in the black mass and take the most valuable stream back into the plants that refine the ore at the right spot. You probably wouldn't even remove the acid, since the same acids are probably used in the refining process.

[@maciejdelekta6167]

Well that’s good news there aren’t that much batteries to recycle in a first place. Also apart from material recycling, using it as a power wall storage may also be considered as a recycling. But it’s much easier and more beneficial so let’s just keep that also in mind.

[@dogsbodyish8403]

It's cheaper to mine at the moment, I should think. Luckily, batteries seem to have very long lives, and EV batteries have a full life after their use in their original role (in static applications).

[@Commander_ZiN]

Thanks for talking about the stuff others do not. I'm tired of one side saying renewables and batteries won't work and the other side saying it's the perfect solution. I just want the real story.

[@yodaiam1000]

You should also discuss the relative challenges for mining and separating/purifying the materials. Recycling is challenging but is mining a challenge as well? Even if it is challenging, it appears all the technically issues are solved since it is done on a daily basis already. The one telling comment was that if you get the material for free, you can make lots of profit. If that is the case, it is economically feasible. The cost of the material can be settled by the market. The cost of disposal is either free to dispose of the battery or you potentially get some money for the used battery. No matter how you cut it, it is way better than dumping tons of CO2, toxins and carcinogens into the atmosphere. I would also like to hear what the carbon footprint of recycling is compared to mining.

[@jp4431]

There is so much activity happening in the battery recycling space, so companies are limiting what information they release to prevent competitors from taking their ideas. Universities are looking for industrial sponsors so they are more open in getting the information about their process out there.

[@badrinair]

Thank you. suprised to know there is only chemical process of getting the basic elements back from the batteries.

[@ronvandereerden4714]

I think they said that's true for the lab and to get great results with low energy usage. Industrial scale processes may use more heat and energy and less chemicals.

[@atehrani]

Laws should mandate battery form factors just as we have for 12v. Similarly 12v batteries have a high recycling rate, we can do this for EV batteries. Making them a closed loop

[@hans69.mp4]

Great content! Awesome breakdown! Amazing enthusiasm from Kai Steinecke!

[@johnwesner3935]

Unfortunately how to cost effectively recycle batteries ends up being the same as nuclear waste. Build them and then try to figure out what to do with the waste. 😢

[@HT-vd4in]

You should try using the exhaust gases, which contain a lot of energy, for other energy intensive processes.

[@bozoldier]

"Low energy " - how much energy is necessary to make sulfuric acid?

[@richdobbs6595]

The even more important question is how much energy does it take to recycle sulfuric acid. Creating brand new sulfuric acid doesn't require a lot of energy since there is energy available in burning sulfur. In addition, processing H2S recovered from desulfurization is a burning process. But recycling acid by burning it to break it back down to SO2 requires an external heat source, like using natural gas to evaporate the water.

[@jpcool95480]

Sulfuric acid is one of the most produced commodity chemicals on the planet. The production of it is highly optimized. You typically start from elemental S and react it with O2 which produces lots of heat, so energy input should be relatively low. For a battery recycling process that uses it there are likely ways to purify the solvent at some point, and even recover some from the sulfur containing of-gases to make more Sulfuric acid.

[@MarkM-bb5rz]

This was very informative and helpful in understanding some of the byproducts and risks of Electric Vehicles. Well done.

[@bazoo513]

10:10 - Well, it's good we have _that_ problem: we get more from every kilogram of raw materials we put into batteries. This only means that the industrial scale recyclers will come online a bit later.

[@owenhill-vf7ko]

I work at a new state of the art battery recycler. While I can't go into details this isn't close to new technology.

[@philliplamoureux9489]

Simple answer: have an environmentally focused world that values survival and a better future over profit. In this case battery manufacturer's are mandated to recover their batteries materials no matter the cost. Meaning make batteries and processes where All the costs are factored in!

[@bazoo513]

This is early days in battery recycling. Every new industrial process had its teething problems. Even at its present state, only paper can be more effectively recycled than batteries. That certainly does't apply to all kinds of plastic, we all collect and deposit in recycling bins. As for recyclers paying for old batteries, the EU already has regulatory solutions in other areas: manufacturers are responsible for recycling, or risk large fines. Some might even _pay_ for recycling of their old batteries. Sometimes not everything can be left to market and speculators who operate there.

[@matthewmanzi9504]

Battery recycling is not an issue. We have been doing it since we started making lithium ion cells. The process can get better but it’s pretty good now.

[@Thomas-jg5uh]

Regarding the basic economics. No, it's not about "how much do you pay when you acquire the material" (8:10) At least not for the overall profitability of recycling. You only pay a lot if other recycling companies are profiting from it. If there is no one who can make use of the old batteries, the price is zero or negative (cost for the waste). Only if the recycling process itself (without the price of the old batteries) is more expensive than the market value of the metals, then there will be no one who would like to recycle it.

[@kambleji]

Battery manufacturing and recycling standards and policy should be implemented by the central governments across the world. It will make setting up of battery manufacturing, R&D and recycling easy for any company in the country

[@kexcz8276]

So, from my humble perspective of a bachelors mechanical engineering student, the first logical step for me would be normalization- manufactures should agree on the sizes of the individual batteries, so the robots can be programmed and dismantle them- that would cut out the expensive manual labour. And then maybe, but ofcourse, I don't know how much competetive they want to be, they should agree on which types of the battery fillings to use. I feel like if there will be just few simillar types, that this challenge can be overcome too. But again, I am writing this here just because norms at my field usually do a pretty good job at lowering the cost and effort of designing, manufacturing and selling certain parts....

[@matthewwakefield6321]

A lot of the problems you mentioned are reduced when you take SMSs approach (the plant you showed footage of) and sell the plants to the manufacturer. Eg Mercedes has a base level of feedstock, deconstructing their own packs is standard, and they are users of the end product and only need to make a smaller profit on the process as it’s part of an integrated lifecycle with more stable economics.

[@tHebUm18]

I get it, but don't like that the title suggests far more issues than the content--someone just looking at the title could miss the reality that the problems in recycling EV batteries are totally solvable. So many folks out there believing misinformation that battery recycling is impossible and EVs are worse than ICE (which is disastrously wrong).

[@TheAllMightyGodofCod]

"totally solvable" is that a fact or an opinion of yours? (Please, straight answer or no answer. Thanks)

[@yungbreakfast9487]

Black Mass is a really good name for a metal band btw

[@kevindruce8915]

Thanks for this as it is interesting. Could you put on your list what is happening to vehicle to grid as that has a potential to provide a lot of storage capacity that would be very useful please?

[@lawrenceheyman435]

Enjoyed the video again, so well done. If you follow the maxim of reduce, reuse and only last recycle, then it's good EV batteries are lasting longer and then being repurposed as home batteries. I'm hopeful the issues covered will be solved over time. Eventually we'll be driving a lot of EVs, so that is still a lot of material.

[@DWPlanetA]

Hey lawrence! Glad you liked it! Subscribe to out channel, we post new videos every Friday ✨

[@MrCaiobrz]

Bottomline, the battery industry is still not fixed, we still don't have the perfect battery (and probably never will because each have a strengh and weakness, so likelly we will always have different types of batteries). So, only once the industry can settle on which of each different compositions we should "standardize" batteries, we will have a proper recycling. However, I must say that for all the Eco-green talk, asking companies to turn a profit from recycling is a little strong, Governments should subsidize recycling.

[@rothn2]

Remove 95% of the impurities or get product that is 95% pure? It's a big difference-- curious to know! Also, would love to see their papers in the description!

[@somerandomfella]

That's great news. I love my V8s, V10s & V12s 😬

[@ianthehunter3532]

Alright, who paid you to post this? Like there's no way Vox uploads same thing within the same minute.

[@samuel-oh7qg]

is this a coincidence

[@ianthehunter3532]

​@@samuel-oh7qg I think more like just another checkmark on the agenda before the annual illuminati meeting.

[@planetxeno82]

an even CNA insider post the same theme in the same minute

[@Eoin-B]

The German government does and It's pretty clear they made it a few weeks ago.

[@Michelle_Wellbeck]

The Democrats

[@ObiePaddles]

Fascinating. 2nd use is probably more important than recycling right now.

[@Philip-hv2kc]

A number of questions arise but we can leave it all for another day . Li and Mn will also be dissolved by the sulphuric acid , why ain't it mentioned? Ni and Cu probably won't be dissolved so much if in pure element form .

[@A3Kr0n]

At least someone is being honest about the challenges.

[@DWPlanetA]

Glad you liked our video 🤞 and if you like it subscribe to our channel, we post new videos every Friday ✨

[@teardowndan5364]

The Achilles' heel of lots of potentially revolutionary new tech: going from the lab proof-of-concept to sustainable, scalable and economically viable process or product.

[@tHebUm18]

10:11 A good thing for both consumers and giving the battery recycling industry more time to improve processes en route to a circular supply chain.

[@johnnorlans]

That is the most important part of this video, what are we going to do with the the byproduct ?

[@marcolima89]

If there aren't many batteries to recycle because they're being reused, or because they last longer, then I'd say that's a good thing. Reusing is always better than recycling.

[@TimMountjoy-zy2fd]

What was clear was that if the recycler got the batteries for free they made a lot of money. That's good news as it means there is a instant market for an old and dead battery so people will cash the battery in rather than dump them. Maybe the recycling of batteries will just happen naturally and not require massive Government intervention / subsidies etc etc.

[@ShieldAre]

If there aren't that many batteries to recycle yet, and the materials aren't that expensive, that's actually sort of good news, means there is more time to spend on perfecting the recycling technology, and we aren't anywhere close to hitting the limits of how many EVs can be made. A lot of people in the past claimed that there isn't such and such material to transform all cars to electric, for example. Whether or not that is true, we are clearly not yet hitting those limits, as the materials are still so cheap as to not make recycling that profitable.

[@timothykeith1367]

The "cheap" materials is a reason for the high costs of EV batteries - which could become more costly. M

[@delusion2987]

@@timothykeith1367 could become more costly? where? in fossil fantasy land? battery prices have been falling like a stone. latest BYD and CATL LFP batteries are being priced at $60/kWh. 10 years ago NMC pack was at $400/kWh.

[@lowtech_1]

Reuse as static, say solar storage, is not always as easy as it sounds. They should do story on that. Anyway it just postpones, the need to dump or recycle.

[@arifs.tiammar4857]

Many thanks for your video. I just realised that recycling used-battery is not so easy on the commercial scale including the feedstock of used battery for raw material. Also the profit is too small... 😒

[@DWPlanetA]

Glad it was helpful!✨

[@wensdyy6466]

with the rise of sodium bateries (where there is basicly no incentive to recycle because you get nothing valuable out of them) all of thi wiil be even more complicated.

[@Nimrawid]

3:57 The chemical compound H2S is Hydrogen sulfide not sulfuric acid. Guys check your stuff twice!

[@DWPlanetA]

Thanks for spotting this! You're right, we wrote Sulphuric Acid (H2S). But we meant Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S). Apologies for the mistake. 🤞

[@sirensynapse5603]

Pretty typical: green energy solutions are not very green at all.

[@proxyblue1961]

3:52 H₂S is not sulfuric acid but hydrogen sulfide. In addition, numbers in chemical formulae should be subscript.

[@jurepecar9092]

Answer is obvious - STANDARDIZE. Lets begin with clearly labeling battery cells of what is inside them and in what ratios. In a decade or two we can pick a battery chemistry that is good enough for most use cases, declare is as the only acceptable battery chemistry and optimize our recycling processes for it. Should work fine.

[@adventtrooper]

That is one of the goals of the EU standard for battery 'passports'; to ensure each cell is labelled (most likely with a QR code) so that the origin and chemistry can be read at end of life.

[@urbanstrencan]

Great video, keep up with bringing us content like this ❤❤❤❤

[@DWPlanetA]

Hey there! Glad you liked it! Subscribe to our channel, we post new videos every Friday ✨

[@catochondria]

Wait we're supposed to recycle these? I thought we were just throwing them in the ocean to recharge the eels!

[@johnwesner3935]

Well, not to be disagreeable but, spent fuel rod can also be recycled. 90% of the potential energy still remains. Some of the current reactors use spent fuel .

[@EdgarMoreiradaRocha]

the fan at 3:06 just looks like a turbo

[@joaopedrosilva8883]

a car turbo is just a fan

[@mceajc]

Looks like we need to make mining more expensive - and tax the extraction companies to ensure ecological clean up is possible once a mine closes, and to subsidise recycling.

[@0Aus]

Lol that's a long way off.😂 as for clean up mine after. Yes we already do rehabilitation.

[@CesarAnton]

sounds like these recycling centers should get big subsidies with tax money

[@martythemartian99]

How much of the fuel we pump into our fuel tanks is recycled?🤔😉

[@timothydevries383]

I wonder if the separated elements are pure enough to use in a new cell.

[@yodaiam1000]

Yes, they are.

[@larryc1616]

Yes and 90% of lithium and other metals can be recycled from used battery packs.

[@hgbugalou]

We can't even recycle sorted plastics efficiently. I am not holding my breath on battery recycling coming anywhere near economical viability.

[@MrKylerichards]

I wonder how the PFAS contained within the battery anode is captured in this process. It has the potential to cause a lot of contaminated process water.

[@RonakDhakan]

Just like the input cost for recycling determines its viability, we can increase the input cost of mining with taxes to make mining unviable as compared to recycling.

[@richdobbs6595]

Taxing mining doesn't make recycling more viable. It takes money from one group for what ever public purpose that are recipients. And it increases the cost to society as folks do something less efficient rather than more. If there are externalities that are being ignore, economic theory suggests that the system becomes more efficient because of appropriate taxation. But absent that connection, it just makes the system less efficient.

[@0Aus]

😄 you certainly have suggested a backwards way to go about it. However that would be an issue for a very long time. We can't get it out the ground quick enough.

[@shutinalley]

Secrets are why we're still in the dark ages.

[@KuruGDI]

In Lithium Ion Batteries Cobalt is actually the metal that is included in only very tiny amounts. What happens to the rest of the metal in the lab? If it's just dissolved in some acid, 99% recycling efficiency on Cobalt is good, but 0% on the other metals would be way worse than that.

[@SisterSunny]

I suppose it's not necessarily a bad thing that demand for recycling batteries is low... _because of_ the demand to reuse them instead, haha

[@maszlagma]

So what I'm hearing is that these industries need to be subsidised? I would rather this industry receive more subsidies than the fossil fuel industry. ... and yes, I understand that in the end, someone will get rich by ensuring profits, but I would rather worry about that once the global climate disaster gets averted or its impacts lessened. We need legistlation to pass for this.

[@Kerbezena]

The biggest differnce in price for battery materials is one that the consumers of these ressources, i.e. battery producers, don't really like to talk about. Materials recovery and battery recycling are, at least for the time being, developed and performed by highly skilled personnel in high-income regions. Mining of raw materials depends heavily on EXPLOITATION, not only of the Earth but also of the workers doing it. This, besides the technical challenges of recycling, is why mining is so profitable in comparison.

[@0Aus]

Not sure how man individuals are get exploited no doubt some but lol. Scale you don't have enough volume to recycle on any scale.

[@johnramirez5032]

This is way out of my wheel house. One thing that wasnt mentioned is the cost of electricity. If you had the electricity free would that make the process cheaper and therefore more profitable?

[@migteleco]

When I see images of old batteries being shredded I always think the same, ¿Wouldn't be better to disasemble it piece by piece? I mean, every piece is made of separated elements, why shred the battery as a whole, when you could treat each of the separated pieces? A lot of energy was used in separate those elements to make those different parts and components during the fabrication process, why mix all of that together again, just to separate the elements again shortly after. I can't believe that it's cheaper this way, to be honest... 🤔

[@0Aus]

Safety issues, time, cost, energy consumed during the process. Have you ever dismantled a large battery? It's not ment to come apart 😂 it's hard work and potentially dangerous

[@EarthCreature.]

It's called St Georges Eco Mining. They're already recycling batteries as we speak

[@sean_haz]

"and recycling is better than mining them and just throwing them away" Why do you think that's the case? Its cheaper to mine than recycle for now, at some point that will change but not for now

[@glasslinger]

The taxpayers can always pick up the tab for the excess costs! They do for everything else so why not!

[@FrankensteinDIYkayak]

in A.S.M.E. magazine decades ago there was an article "design for lifecycle" things like design for manufacture are well known but lifecycle is another thing. since the article I'm sure there has been many new tech developments which I think would make it more feasible. one part of lifecycle design is design for disassembly. I'd tend to think the shredding and separation part could be minimized and the batteries could be disassembled more with quicker and easier methods. thing is though these issues have to be included at the design phase rather than after. too complex for online discussion and government regulations?

[@cheknauss9867]

I think it's worth doing, profitable or not.

[@AdventureUwe]

In my opinion, profitability should not be the determining factor. When a company produces something, it has a responsibility to the environment to ensure its products can be recycled, thereby preventing environmental harm. I believe we humans need to adopt a different mindset: we must stop doing things without considering the consequences and then dealing with the problems later. This way, we avoid situations where 'it is not profitable to…', as profitability should not even be a topic of concern. Inevitably, we end up questioning the value of the environment or life itself, which should never be the case.

[@0Aus]

If not for the profit what will be the incentive?

[@orangesonicc]

When most of the millions of cars turns to EV, and recycling starts to not meet the pace of cars needing to be recycled and the mining destroys the earth faster than oil… we will really see how good are EVs for the environment With the current battery technology most of EVs that breaks or gets in a accident is basically unrepairable and people will start to feel it in their pocket

[@xiphoid2011]

The problem with recycling has always been that, in most cases, it cost more than buying new.

[@justanotherearthling1062]

Isn't this funded with the Carbon tax? It seems like the right way to spend that money?

[@DWPlanetA]

That's a good question! Actually, we made a story about carbon tax issues. You can check it out here: 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2GviJx6mdt5e80feature=shared And do not forget to subscribe to us if you like videos like these. We post new videos every Friday ✨

[@stevengill1736]

Any recycling is driven by economics: if the recycled material is more expensive than the fresh material, it's not likely to be adopted ( unless it's a PR stunt, like plastic recycling)

[@ZarlanTheGreen]

Starting by chucking the battery in a shredder, doesn't exactly sound great... Batteries need to be made to be more easily dismantled, and just generally have recycling in mind, during the design.

[@beyondfossil]

I agree in principle the batteries (indeed all electronic devices) should be made with recycling in mind. to a certain degree. But shredding the batteries followed by density separation (like the way LiCycle does it) is probably much more economical in long term and at mass scale. Because if there is too much pre-dismantling required then labor costs go up and labor is not cheap especially in western countries.

[@johndoyle4723]

Many recycling operations start with a shredder, it is often more cost effective than manual dismantling. Cars, domestic appliances, electronics, car tyres etc. I used them for many years.

[@ZarlanTheGreen]

@@SocialDownclimber 1. All parts are physical 2. How is shredding everything (and thereby mixing everything together) a good way of separating the different materials? 3. How/why is a more destructive method, perfect?

[@ZarlanTheGreen]

@@SocialDownclimber They are components, they're physical, they're physical components. _"Shredding is a good way of separating materials because the materials are separated chemically"_ How is it not way better, to separate them physically, without having to bother with the chemical stuff? _"A 'more destructive' method is perfect because it extracts a higher proportion of the valuable materials."_ How is destroying and mixing materials, something that lets you get more of the separate materials?

[@ZarlanTheGreen]

@@SocialDownclimber _"No, they are not physical components. They are chemical components."_ ...which are physical. As all chemical components are. _"Destroying the materials allows them to be chemically extracted"_ Why do that *_with the whole battery,_* rather than separating the separate components? And then deal with the separate pieces, which have mostly X element, which will then be far easier to extract, than if you mixing everything together, and have to separate a great multitude of elements, from the same mixed pile. How you have failed to get, that this is my whole point and/or refuse to address this point... _"it really seems like you are one of those people who doesn't want to understand reality, but instead wants to publicly misunderstand reality in the face of the facts, for whatever reason."_ ...says the person who can't explaining anything, or understanding a word I've said? It seems you accusing others, of what it is actually you who are doing... _"I'll go find one of those people now."_ I always find it rather pathetic, when people *_CLAIM_* that they are leaving a conversation ...when the fact that they wrote a long response, before making that claim, proves that statement to be a lie.

[@davetaylor4741]

The answer is to give up on this ridiculous battery utopia until we can actually build decent safe batteries. Not this toxic mix of pollutants. Trying to clean up one problem with a worse one has never been the answer.

[@hiraktalukdar7540]

The Lab Assistant 😍

[@vegasromaniac]

Awesome video

[@DWPlanetA]

Glad you enjoyed it 😎 If you like videos like this subscribe to our channel, we post new ones every Friday ✨

[@KokkoroConnoisseur]

wouldn't this all be easier if they just took the batteries apart by hand and took the individual bits, but by bit?

[@mvphasser2]

Second life batteries are the most important in my opinion. Reuse rather than recycle

[@3abxo390]

What about appliance batteries? I.e., batteries from devices and AA, AAA, C, D, 9V, etc.

[@ehsanrezai1208]

It's all about investment and innovation. If the global market or demand for electric goods go up more companies will invest in it and innovation to produce better ,cheaper batteries and finding better ways to recycle them will skyrocket.

[@shikhargupta9540]

I'm no battery scientist but why do we shred and mix everything down to powder form and then find ways to separate. Is it like impossible to separate cathode and anode? Just asking. Can't we just charge the battery 100% and recover Lithium Cathode? Idk I think physical separation might be expensive because of human intervention but it seems to be easier option to me.

[@MikeInc79]

Graphite can't recycled and is classified as finite material. Graphite is pretty complex. Natural graphite can vary much in it's quality. Synthetic graphite is better but dirty and energy demanding to make. Petcoke, tar and slack are blended together in steam heated blenders and during high temperatures and high currencies this plastic mass is turned into graphite. Right now there's no market for recycled lithium carbonate, It's thrown away like waste

[@paulnewman9275]

Crazy world .....

[@abhijith_mb]

The only problem with recycling electric car batteries is that it is not being done enough. More government policies need to subsidize the technology.

[@ValidatingUsername]

Imagine we added battery or environmental tax to batteries to subsidize recycling and adverse health outcomes of workers

[@JasonVoorhees-zd4ko]

Recovering cobalt and nickel won't be necessary, EV industry is moving towards LFP as standard. Maybe nickel and cobalt batteries should even be phased out by regulators to speed this process.

[@kongwee1978]

Cobalt and nickel aren't just used in battery.

[@Schinkeldink]

​@@kongwee1978true, but in batteries it's hard to recycle because chemistry

[@kongwee1978]

@@Schinkeldink Sell to China. They will break down every single element.

[@larryc1616]

Sodium ion batteries are being used first in China this year.

[@tooltalk]

LFP recycling is still very expensive because of higher processing and lower value recovered.