The Real Difference between EMG's and Fishman Fluence Moderns

We cut an EMG and a Fishman Fluence In half
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Dylan Talks Tone Recieves Commision From Some Of These Links

[@jannik19191]

According to electrosmash, the preamps of emg pickups are also quite interesting. Instead of being wired in series, the two coils are connected to the two inputs of a differential amplifier, resulting in a configuration somewhat close to a humbucker wired in parallel. This results in a much higher resonant peak than in a regular humbucker.

[@szaki95]

They actually fuction like two separate coils, because they don't interact physically like parallel connected humbuckers. It's more like two single coils connected to different channels of a mixer.

[@fragtagninja1633]

That might explain why they retain dynamics so well despite the higher output.

[@DylanTalksTone]

Before anyone asks... These were both new functional pickups. #science

[@GByePorkPieHat]

This was educational and just a lot of good clean fun. Thanks, Dylan!

[@Ottophil]

Good content. I find it hard to explain fishmans aren’t wound to people. They can’t grasp the pcb layered magnetics. Some of my friends insist that all actives are the same

[@Hesohi]

I couldn’t grasp layers of PCB making up coils.

[@mihailmilev9909]

Lol

[@mihailmilev9909]

@@Hesohi oof, well at least u do now right?

[@mihailmilev9909]

@@Hesohi right lol

[@souldreamer9056]

I also find it hard to explain. Most my friends say “what’s a guitar pickup?”.

[@coffeedudeguy]

I’m used to Rose Anvil cutting open heritage work boots, so this feels right at home 😂

[@roberthastings708]

Thanks Dylan. Who thought this was a normal channel? I knew dremel would be involved. Love this stuff.

[@roberthastings708]

I watched this again. It's as great this year as last. I love this stuff. Thanks!

[@meyersguitars2196]

So glad you did this as I have always wanted to see what they look like on the inside.

[@cliffsmithguitarlessons]

Nice one! I'm just glad you still had all your fingers at the end of the video!

[@jason.martin]

Very informative !!! thanks for sacrificing these pickups :)

[@johnelmers3348]

I've been so looking for a vid like this. Thanks

[@elus1ve0ne64]

Really cool content ! I love geekin out on this kind of stuff

[@shanewalton8888]

Thanks for taking one for the team, Dylan. It was really fascinating to see what was inside all of my EMGs

[@mihailmilev9909]

Same. Except I don't have them.... Still tho!

[@FairlyUnknown]

I knew the fishman fluence pickups were boards stacked on top of each other from watching your video on the single "coil" version, but it was really cool to see how the EMG was put together. I never looked into how they were made, and now I know!

[@mihailmilev9909]

Yeah same. Somewhat insightful ig that it looks just like the Fluence in a way with the naked eye

[@mihailmilev9909]

Also nice pfp, I think I may have seen you before. Where is it from?

[@troydavis1612]

Good job Dylan…Like the good ol’ days. Great video.

[@grim..sentinel9500]

Took one for the team indeed. You get a like, a comment, and a subscribe for your effort. Awesome video

[@liametoh]

Amazing video. Out of the box!

[@jamietristan7818]

Great content, I'm convinced to buy fishman pickups now

[@jerryjaystone9444]

Outrageous!! I love it!!

[@mikecarbone828]

Salutations Dylan! Very interesting comparison, totally different pickup construction, I did not realize that the Fishman Fluence pickups were so different inside, I have an Epiphone Prophesy Les Paul with the Fishman Fluence pickups and I really like the way they sound, but I had no idea how much more complex they are than EMG powered pickups, however, I was very interested in seeing and learning how they are able to get more sound options out of a single pickup. Thank you very much for posting this video and sharing this information with us all! Please have an excellent and awesome day! ☀️✨🎸

[@pjmtry7]

Always the best awesome info!

[@dongonzulman6478]

hell yeah, i thoroughly enjoyed the insides of these two mysterious pickups

[@CarloRegadasGuitar]

Very interesting video mate. Carlo 🎸👍🏼

[@BillySoundFarm]

Dude. How did this video only get 5.9k views in 3 weeks and the Harley benton killer video did 27k in 4 days. I don't understand why this isn't way more interesting than that to people. Also, your thumbnails are really good lately. I know exactly what the video is going to be every time these days. I think I click on less of them, but when I click, I know why I'm clicking and I know I'm watching until the end. Great content man.

[@DrJeebles]

My favorite EMG artist is Lars Frederiksen, but his pickups are passive. I'm blown away by how solidly those pickups are built.

[@DrJeebles]

Nice to see some recognition for Rancid. I will let you know when I get a set, for sure.@@roymartin500

[@cycomiles4225]

Marty Friedman. Also passive EMGs.

[@NicoViergever]

Very interesting, thanks. Made me think: maybe you could do a video about on-board preamp-boosters? They were a big thing in the late '70s. Clapton and Gilmour used them in their Strats and still do. I got one (make/brand unknown) in my '79 self-assembled Strat and people are amazed by the tone and versatility. Although out of fashion for years, there seems to be new interest in these on-board preamp/boosters. I am curious to see what there is on the market now (haven't seen many) and what you think of them.

[@CJBlake-rf7mv]

Great video! Thanks!

[@Eckerick]

Great explanation of how Fishman uses parts of the "coils" to achieve different tones.

[@Gin_des]

Perfect comparison 🔥🔥🔥

[@brandona6711]

great video! it hurt to watch you cut those up, so thanks for taking that one for the team! One question, why tip down carry?

[@ThorsShadow]

Tosin Abasi did an interview back when he switched to Fishman. Back then he said, that they could change the sound of the pickup "almost in real time". He said this had made it extremely easy to dial in his desired sound. Never got wtf that was supposed to mean. It makes so much sense they would be able to just "shut off" individual layers of the pickups and thus change the sound. Similar to when you make a pickup with more or less copper wire.

[@jimmyjames2022]

Really interesting EMG ZW vs Fishman Fluence video thanks! Only question left for me is are magnets ceramic or metal alloy but good luck scraping the epoxy off to test further. I support Dylans's Patreon especially for these tech deep dives, so thanks again.

[@currituck]

EMG 81 Ceramic magnets EMG 85 Alnico 5 magnets

[@iftekharmarin8876]

Thanks, Nice Information man ,.....

[@kraigphillips9121]

That is massively interesting Bravo

[@shovington67]

Wow? I didn't expect the Fishman Fluence to sound so musical while being cut and having the video speed increased.

[@d3w4yn3]

coil tap versus split, but at more than one interval. pretty cool!!!

[@andrewbrowning6357]

They don't actually, the Fishman pickups only use the ends of the coils, there are no taps. The voicing comes from switching capacitance in and out before the preamp.

[@These_go_to_eleven_1959]

The EMG inside looks exactly like a mini dimarzio X2N pickup. There are pictures online of it not cut in! half!😂

[@Vern859]

Good info Thank you. 👋

[@erikrummel6277]

That Fluence is crazy looking!! I wanna see one of those printed circuit boards. And I wonder how many they have layered and if that’s how they change the character of the pickup ie; modern, classic, specific artist…. Thanks for the really cool video, I hope you’re getting enough add revenue to pay for the cost of the pickups 😂

[@thseed7]

DLC Blade on the PM2 was the correct choice for a pointing device. In real life, excellent video. Incredibly interesting to see how these pickups actually work.

[@Mephilis78]

I love it when they release a new DLC knife, so long as the bugs are patched promptly.

[@scottakam]

It's a bit surprising that active pickups haven't made more inroads, considering the potential they bring in terms of tone shaping and variation. I don't think it's really an objection to batteries. Nobody really complains about batteries in acoustic guitars.

[@daniloberserk]

It's just mumble jumble critics on internet forums really... Some people are biased without even trying tbh.

[@martianmurray]

Cool, I’ve been kinda curious about active pups. The battery thing is a turnoff but it’s good to learn.

[@bennylarsen1907]

I felt the same way, but after getting some EMGs myself, I've come to find out that they actually don't use that much power. A set of EMGs will supposedly run 1,000 hours on a 9 volt battery. At least according to themselves.

[@666takecover]

@@bennylarsen1907 yeah, they're using a super simple differential amplifier design which draws 80 microamps (0,08mA). In comparison, a Fishman Fluence Modern draws a whopping 2,5mA which is more than 30 times that of an EMG - and the reason why they sell battery packs too. :D

[@EvilDragon666]

​@@666takecover TBH 2.5 mA is still not terrible, and totally worth it for the added flexibility and more balanced sound vs EMGs. IMO.

[@Yakomoe]

Love the hat!!!!

[@richarddwjensen]

Hey Dylan, I loved this video as well as the one on myth-busting guitar shielding beliefs. Would there be any benefit to shielding a cavity and pickguard for Fishman Fluence modern humbucker install?

[@monstroguitars4550]

Very cool shit Dylan. Thanks

[@shawnway8554]

Very interesting, glad I got to see this. I like single pickup guitars and I heard somewhere that EMGs or most active pickups are actually very weak pickups and they use a preamp to bring their levesl up take them useable. That makes me think that with 2 active pickups, if you turn 1 off that the remaining magnetism in the non selected pickup will have less effect than that of a standard pickup. Hopefully that question is clear.

[@666takecover]

The weak part about EMGs' coils is their turn count. You can't fit much copper on those tiny coils. The fishman PCB coils are an even way lower turn count, they'd barely produce any passive output. But the magnetic pull on the strings should be comparable to passive pickups since the magnets are roughly the same size and strength.

[@myeyesarewaiting]

Would love to see a destructive dismantle of the PRS SE Silver Sky pickups to find out what the extra pole pieces are all about

[@maxmustardman298]

The question of questions would be how is the longevity of those stacked boards

[@820hurleyj]

I watched the Fishman video first on the Modern Fluence pick up. They said the bridge pick up had a ceramic magnet and the neck has some sort of Alnico. Which one did you cut open on the Fluence? Neck or Bridge? Fishman says there are 3 voicings. 1 & 2 sound virtually the same to me but voice 3 was an amazing Single Coil sound. Unfortunately, they only played voices 1 & 2 in a very distorted metal sound. It was a very good metal sound, but I want to know how they sounded clean as well. I found a Phillip McKnight video where he demoed voices 1 & 2 in both clean and distorted but he didn't have the "coil split" function wired up and I "assume" the "coil split" wouldve been voice 3. I'll check out your links to other videos but so far I'm still really confused (and impressed) by these new-ish Fluence pick ups.

[@snowcamellion]

Very interesting. I've changed out my pickups for EMG's, and I really liked the solderless connections end to end. I was curious if the Fishman fluence had the same thing. Doesn't look like it, I see from your video there are pin connectors but looks like they need to be soldered to the pots , etc.. At least that's what it looks like from a diagram but I could totally be reading that wrong. What's your thoughts on the solderless connection? I've had good experiences with it.

[@rferguson3]

Yep, Fishman have solderless option, as well. Although, I'm pretty sure that in order to utilize coil tapping, you still have to solder one small connection, on the opposite side of the pickup (opposite of the side that has the solderless hook-up)

[@Ninjakutsueki]

No idea what the impact is sonically, but I'd be curious to see the measurements of the magnets (in mm) between the EMG and FFM.

[@davidchavez81]

They sound great

[@dataplatter]

Can you extract the active PCB from the fishman fluence, maybe boil it to soften the epoxy? I would love see what active components they use

[@DreidMusicalX]

Pretty cool.

[@5urg3x]

I wonder if you could use the EMG with the Fishman preamp and vice versa if that would do anything

[@jeffreyeagen4896]

Too cool!

[@TruthMan1234]

Be nice if they engineered the 3 voicings to be accessed by mini dip switches on the side of the pickup, vs having to take the PU out and move the pin harness.

[@formallynamed85]

Thanks buddy sorry for your loss tho but it was interesting as heck still curious about the magnets in each and my question is would they both be the same meaning like the emg are both magnets the same in it or one this and one that I figure so but the fishman I would really wonder especially when it comes to all the different signature models I dunno just coffee thinking lol

[@DamianoftheRyans]

INTRIGUING! I have had Fishmans befo', I do like them, but I like my EMGs more. Especially the 57/66 set. 😎

[@These_go_to_eleven_1959]

Seymour Duncan has this cool wiring that allows you to set the amount of cutput from the one coil! It's called the "spin of split" mod. You can have one of the 2 coils only 50% on!

[@KordTaylor]

Man this looked hard.

[@gibfen1235]

As an embedded designer, our RF devices used traces on a circuit board as the antenna. By "stacking" or "layering" the printed circuit boards, PCB, to achieve the electrical characteristics. Fishman uses a similar technology where the "wire windings" are actually traces on the layers of their PCBs. PCBs and manufacturing processes makes each PCB pickup match the next PCB pickups. You do not have differences between pickups because of "how" they were wound. But being in industry I WILL say that unless Fishman tightly monitors these PCBs, the materials and tolerances CAN change, ie save material money. This DOES happen. So the pickups today may not match those 2 years from now. Only time will tell..

[@radfury23g32]

Broooo I just ordered a single Fishman because my bridge pickup crapped out, I woulda just given it to you man no need for the violence!

[@therealjustincase]

Interesting! The Fishmans must have much much lower number of winds than regular pickups due to the coil-forming PCB base material taking up a lot of the available room and the copper traces apparently being quite a bit wider and thicker than the average wire diameter in a regular pickup. I’m wondering if they use a tiny transformer inside the pickup (that did not show up on the cross-section) to boost the output level before the preamp, or use a high-gain, low input impedance, very low noise preamp directly connected to the coils?

[@clockworkvanhellsing372]

As far as I remember, the fishmans have 48 layers with 52 turns each making ~2500 windings. Passive Humbuckers are often at 5000 to 6000 turns in comparrison.

[@andrewbrowning6357]

25 turns and 48 layers per coil, DCR is about 3kohm per winding.

[@paulneeds]

Didn’t Fishman say all of this when the pickups were announced? I know I read about the boards replacing coils in a review or something back when I bought guitar magazines…

[@kingpriapatius5832]

I love Fishman pickups. EMG and Dimarzio are still cool, but the clarity and the dynamics of Fishman are unique.

[@shredward666]

I will always be an EMG fanboy. No other actives I’ve tried compare. I also feel that many people dismiss EMGs because of their limited experience with them, having only tried an 81/85. I always suggest people try a 60 or a 57 in the bridge position. Totally different sound and feel than an 81🤘

[@dirktucker77]

Nice Spyderco pm2. I have fishman fluence in a ltd JM2. They sound so good to my novice ear. Unplugging constantly and Changing the battery all the time when you forget to unplug, does kinda suck. I'm just a basement metal riff dweller tho.

[@enacku]

What are you forgetting to unplug? Don't you just press the switch knob down to shut it off?

[@paintbox48]

Hi Dylan…I’m a 75 year old guy that fiddles with guitars just for a hobby. I live in the UK so don't know the best way to contact you. I’ve got a question that’s puzzled me for a while now, and wonder if it interests you enough to comment on. Simply put - why don’t we see more involving ways of controlling tone in an electric guitar, other than just using a single capacitor to just roll off treble? I realise there are a number of switching options like phase reversal, series/parallel, split coil etc. but we don’t see much on contouring tone like there is in amplifiers or even electro/acoustic preamps. Is there a logical reason for this? Cheers Terry

[@lawndart188s]

Really F’in interesting sir. I guess I’m not too old to learn.😅

[@kinkinkijkin]

hi, I'd like to point out that you took a saw to a solid block of PCB, acrylic, and alnico magnet without PPE and then sniffed it, and now should probably have regular checkups for potential development of lung disease. on a pedant's note, the fishman pickup isn't multiple PCBs stacked, each coil is a single PCB. printed inductance coils are already fairly common in precision scenarios, and no this construction does not allow you to select winding sets, though that would be cool. The sets of windings are linked very physically at some VIAs going all the way through each PCB. Also, you identified the amplifier PCB of the EMG as resin. thanks for the video! was nice seeing a cross section of an assembled pickup.

[@andrewbrowning6357]

They could coil tap on any of the vias (all are exposed at the layer used to terminate the coils and send them to the amp, presumably for functional testing) but they don't do it in their implementation.

[@SO-bp2uc]

Very cool video! Especially if you’re a nerd like me 😂

[@Hikaru109Ichijyo]

awesome

[@FrankyFeedler]

You attribute using part of the copper stack as being unique to the Fishmans but that is exactly what coil tapping in humbuckers is. The stack is wound e.g. halfway, a wire is connected, the winding is finished and another wire is added. So you have both coil tap and coil split on four-wire humbuckers.

[@DylanTalksTone]

It’s not the same….

[@FrankyFeedler]

@@DylanTalksTone Why not, if I may ask?

[@zacharycochran8096]

Fishman does a thing..and does it very well..but they are really 1 deminsional..I had a schecter with them in it..I liked it but didn't love it..being fair not a fan of active pickups..

[@GregStraub42]

Sounds like they are a really different design like Lace Alumitones in that they're not coils.

[@Leo9ine]

Where's the link to the comparison you mentioned?

[@DylanTalksTone]

Ah crap give me a few

[@fragtagninja1633]

Ive never seen a sawzaw fail to cut something before.

[@KordTaylor]

BTW - I just recently found out that Firebird pups aren’t really mini-humbuckers.

[@Kabayoth]

The presumption is Seymour Duncan follows EMG's lead designing the Blackouts. Oddly enough, EMG makes mini-humbuckers. I doubt it's worth cutting one up though. Most likely they are simply more compact than a standard EMG-81.

[@michaelmenkes8085]

EMG will put the same pickup in multiple casings, as the bobbins are small enough to fit in anything.

[@Vegitobluuuuu]

The saber blade is a DLC blade plus it’s a fusion blade so..

[@WilliamHaisch]

2:30 Just look at all that raw tone dust falling out of it! 😂

[@robertorochamartinsrocha7041]

Cool... 👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@diariesofamediocremusician325]

A bandsaw would be the correct method to cut these, and would have gone through like butter with very little damage to the pups themselves. Its always interesting to see the insides of things that we never get to see.

[@buckchaser4725]

You may want to call customer service to find out if you just voided the warranty. Who knows, maybe they’ll send you a new one.

[@FJness]

hell ya

[@nicholasaragon4126]

My favorite EMG guitarist? Prince. Everything from Pop, R&B, Funk, high-gain shredding on his guitars. Really, at the end of the day any pickup you can get what you want if you put the time into learning your gear. I recently installed some EMG SA, SA, 89s and they are great! I mostly play clean or light overdrive and they work great. They REALLY are great for using with modeling software. I'll be installing some Fismanns in one of my guitars soon for fun.

[@richszmal1653]

Emg does make an active splitable pickup.

[@luistijerina]

They call it a “triple-coil.” I don’t know exactly how it works but it’s supposed to contain both a humbucker and a single coil in the same pickup, so it’s more like switching instead of splitting.

[@geoffwhitemusic]

Have you tried a hacksaw?

[@markeldridge6026]

Robert Johnson had the best EMG tone!

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

Glad you didn’t do a ‘tone test’ because I can’t hear anything distinguishing any specific sound qualities on KZbin. The platform does not lend itself to high fidelity listening, and most digital devices are entirely inadequate to high fidelity listening.

[@garysanders3193]

You need to compare the EMG TW model to the Fishman Fluence.

[@DylanTalksTone]

If someone sponsors the video I sure will

[@shaneaintit2171]

slipknot's def my fave emg artist

[@valueofnothing2487]

EMG's are mini-humbuckers. That is amazing.

[@RexCoggins]

More of a coil tap…

[@JoeyLizotte-di1vh]

You left out Duncan Blackouts.

[@msi1985]

Warning ⚠️ 2:32 might not be suitable for the feint of heart! Disclaimer: pickups were harmed in the making of this video!

[@Eswald]

-1 for not using an angle grinder... But awesome vid. Fishmans (Fishmen?) look interesting in terms of technology.

[@mortaman]

I have fishmans currently but been EMG guy for 32 years, I don't care for them and my guitar guy said they are wired differently so he can't just swap out as easy as you would another EMG any comments on what my guitar guys says

[@TristanJCumpole]

Fishman Fluence pickups don't seem to benefit from an 18v supply, however the original EMG preamp (can't speak to the newer versions) does sound significantly different with more voltage overhead. Whether this is straight out headroom or the supply voltage affects the frequency response from the current-limited circuit is beyond me. EMGs still do their EMG thing at 18v, but with a wider dynamic range than with a more-compressed 9v supply. For anybody that runs older style EMGs, I'd recommend this modification if the option is there. What I am curious about personally, is how many connections there are between the stacked PCBs of the "coils" in the Fluence and the tone-shaping preamp itself. If there are not too many, it should be feasible to have a preamp elsewhere in the instrument that is more complex than the one embedded in the single Fluence unit. If I'm right in thinking that the individual artist pickups use common PCB coil stacks with tweaked preamps and specific tone shaping, all many of wacky stuff could be done with a comprehensive preamp set in the control cavity. Moveable resonant peaks, everything.