E28 Tamiya ORV Double Wishbone Rear Suspension Development

[@rcrevisited]

I'm late to the Blackfoot party... by about 35 years. I recently returned to the R/C hobby after a very long absence. I owned other Tamiya cars and trucks as a child but finally purchased a Blackfoot as an adult. I was always a little leery of the trailing arms and horizontal shocks so I was pretty happy to stumble upon your custom upgrade. Not only did I order this specific upgrade, I recently ordered a total of 14 assorted parts for the ORV from your Shapeways page. I'm really looking forward to working on my Blackfoot/AMPro hybrid project over the winter. Furthermore, I'm excited to share my love of this hobby with my young son next Spring. Thank you for all of your fine work and videos!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Never too late! This really changes the dynamics of the car and, for me any way, made it so much more fun to drive!

[@theCrazyFrenchGuys]

I predict a great future for this awesome channel

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thank you!

[@theibault]

You my friend, are a mad genius. Good work on this. Should I ever decide to add more power to my ORVs, I'll pick these parts up. I don't have any issues running them with silver cans and Torque Tuned motors.

[@AMPROEngineering]

You know, those are all I run also. It seems that the front end never stays in place. You have the rere's ? All mine are vintage.

[@GisforGraphico]

Some of the best explanatory hobby videos on KZbin. Any possibility of a similar solution for the FAV or Wild one?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Well thank you. I have fun designing the parts and making the videos. Though I do have some stuff coming up for the FAV/WO, I have not thought of the rear end on this car. This may be a future project. Right now, I have 2 huge irritating projects to finish. Project Superfly Double-wishbone Hornet and Project New Chassis for the Sand Scorcher. Man these 2 have been awful.

[@muddfoot69]

Man, every time I watch a video...another awesome thing I gotta get now, great job Lol

[@AMPROEngineering]

Haha, thanks man.

[@ecto1a2003]

I love it! For the rear upper link I'd go with whatever is strongest. I'm rougher to my Blackfoot than I am my lunchbox. Rocks, gravel, curbs, jumps my Blackfoot goes through it all. I love the stuff so far and the battery door idea is great, it solves one of my biggest issues with the the chassis from back in the day where the battery leads would rub or chafe against the stops.

[@AMPROEngineering]

I think it will be the tie rod. Easy and cheap. I have another plan for the battery retainer. I am thinking of making a battery cage for this car considering how it puts the battery in harms way. Not an issue with NiCads and NIMh's but with a soft case lipo? Jeez.

[@tiken7130]

@@AMPROEngineering where can I get hardware for the suspsion and how much would cost thank you

[@AMPROEngineering]

@@tiken7130 Hardware needs to be source at a local hobby shop. That is the best way.

[@tiken7130]

@@AMPROEngineering ok great a link into how I would put my battery on my Blackfoot to keep it in place without losing the battery while driving the truck since the whole rear end is changing thank you

[@AMPROEngineering]

@@tiken7130 So the best thing for that is to have a battery that fits the battery area well. I have a small case I made to fit smaller batteries that is designed to keep them in the ORV chassis. I will show this soon in a video!

[@RR-ho5ek]

I never owned a Blackfoot or Beatle but my first car was a frog. The frog was a great runner and was underestimated despite it's problems. I always loved the trailing arm suspension. It probably worked better on the frog. Trailing arms create more forward traction and are better in the rough when set up properly. They also make these cars what they are. I wish tamiya would have made the arms stronger but I wouldn't give them up.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Oh yeah, on the frog it was fine. Add big tires and then forget it!

[@hadoukennumber13]

I would definitely consider this, seems like a great idea. My re re Blackfoot has been nothing but a massive disappointed especially compared to a secondhand Monster Beetle I owned in the early 90s. I didn't have the issue of the swing shaft coming out of the drive cup at first although, I have since read of a lot of people who have. However, I can see clearly in your video the swing shaft has printed on it Bo37 (solid o or circle). So did my stock one, that broke so searching the parts number on the back of my Blackfoot manual (19808071) or the Parts Bag designation (BB15), I thought I had found the correct replacement part... Now the swing shaft constantly pops out of the drive cup (on the motor side, of course). My re re Blackfoot has become an ornament because of this, on closer examination the replacement shaft has 'B37' printed on it and the orientation of the ends are different to my stock one. It seems like there are two different 37mm swing shafts that share the same parts number. I'd like to know if anyone can shed any light on this? Thanks from an ex-Tamiya fan.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah, i hear your frustration. The CVD's on the RERE are much worse than the hex drives on the originals so it is amazing that Tamiya managed to make the thing worse. This is the sole reason I made the rear double wishbone suspension for it. I think what you have are two different builds of the axles. My suggestion is that you limit the shock extension but adding an internal spacer on the shock shaft. it is BS that you need to do that but yet, here we are.

[@hadoukennumber13]

@@AMPROEngineering Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it.

[@kleyba]

Great vids! Can you make a list of screws, bolts upper control arm sizes/lengths needed. Thx!!

[@AMPROEngineering]

It is in the description of the build video, episode 35.

[@hondofourfivetwo9347]

I know this is an older video but if you are still interested in who made composite hex drives for the Tamiya ORV’s I believe it was either JG or CRC (sorry it’s been a while 😂) I had a set as upgrade replacement back when I had a Blackfoot supposedly they had better wear characteristics than the original steel ones eventually I put a Thorp ball diff in that car with regular dog bones and that solved most of the issues.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Oh that is ok, I always check the comments. I think it was CRP that made them but honestly I am no expert. Sorry I was no help!

[@declanthiele]

Being younger and not having the luxury of the 80s experience, I can only get my info about these cars from the rumors and tales. This is the first time I've seen the hex drives, and know how easily meta can grind, I can easily see those stripping. I think that if the hex drives had more to mesh with, say grooves and such like a gear, it wouldn't grind as easy and would still be around.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Well, I am one of the few that really had no problem with the Hex drives. I do know how they rounded off and why that was the case but I think they were overall quite good. The main reason why they worked so well was because they would work perfectly throughout a large window of rotation, something the dog bone cannot do. Of course I agree with you, if they had more bite, they would have lasted longer.

[@storm4710]

its cool tamiyas original design is based of a 1970s beetle 1303 rear end alot of the models that use the ORV suspension was based around the same rear end

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah, it worked fine on the Frog but once the big wheels came in, the problems were exacerbated.

[@storm4710]

yeah it was to much for the suspension i plan to ball diff my RE-RE FAV and build a XR311 thx for putting links to your stuff on scale4x4 im the guy thats rebuilding my TA-02 LR3

[@bluzzpower]

I was hoping Someone would come up with a solution for a poorly thought out rear axle design, on Tamiyas part...Nice Job!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah me too. I am tired of patches. A solution was the ticket.

[@spinymold]

love it, when's it coming out?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Soon as I get the parts from shape ways and beat the crap out of the truck a little bit.

[@gregoryguza4623]

Awesome solution. I have the re re Brat that I haven't had a chance to build yet and I'd like to install your finished and tested set up into my build so I don't have to deal with the hassle of the old Tamiya design. How much more could the upper links you mentioned cost? I'm unsure of what the length of the included in kit shocks are-could they be made to work or will I have to buy a pair of 80mm shocks?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Well thank you! I am thinking the upper links could add $5 to the cost but overall I think most people would want to install the ball ends. Maybe I can make 2 versions. Personally, I would rather a rigid link for appearance sake. As for the shocks, this is designed to work with the stock units. They are around 77 mm I think. I hope this info helps!

[@gregoryguza4623]

AMPRO Engineering-I'd be interested in the rigid upper links-also for appearance and ruggedness I'm not a huge fan if ball links because I'd be worrying about them popping off or getting the length just right for the proper camber. Maybe they can be mounted with shoulder screws like Traxxas uses for their rigid upper links on their brushed XL5 2wd vehicles (Rustler, Bandit, Stampede).

[@AMPROEngineering]

See I agree but I would rather a ball pop off than something break. Plus, the added cost is no good. On top of that, you would need some harder to get hardware from Tamiya. Personally want a rigid link like you but I think it will be way harder to deal with in the long run. I'll see what testing shows.

[@gregoryguza4623]

I don't mind paying a little more for the rigid upper links since it'll save me from the hassle of buying the threaded rod, ball ends and the actual ball mounts and trying to make them the proper length.

[@AMPROEngineering]

That is a good point. Maybe I will offer both. That will be simple and make everyone happy.

[@Pablo668]

Great design dude!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thanks man

[@jaredsayrc4947]

Love your KZbin channel but you need to do a video with oilfulled shock for all Tamiya models and my first model was the Clod Buster that I save away for 5 week of work to buy it and once traxxas came out with the emax I bought emax shock and replace the Clod Buster shock and use Emax shock and now it and better ride

[@AMPROEngineering]

Oh yeah I do love oil filled shocks! I may need to do more on them but at this time I do not have a clodbuster sadly.

[@devdrc]

Gotta have this! How do we find this part for the rear end? It's on shapeways?? This is amazing thx!

[@AMPROEngineering]

All on Shapeways man. Check out the description for all the parts you need to order from me and hardware list.

[@mbtrackerhm]

Nice I have the original Blackfoot would like to get this setup,when you're going to start selling this?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Hey man, as soon as I finish (start is more like it) the testing and make the video, it will be up for sale! Subscribe to me here and you will find out instantly when it is for sale! I will also post on my FB and instagram. I cant imagine we are more than a week away.

[@martinneps9387]

What cars or trucks does this fit Please let me know

[@AMPROEngineering]

all of the ORV's with this trailing arm suspension

[@carbonitegamorrean8368]

had to comeback and watch this again after getting 3/4 through "e35:".... BTW, that is a GREAT!!!! looking Body!!, I love the brat bods...how or where would I get a clear window/windshield piece for the Brats like that????

[@AMPROEngineering]

Man, that window is vintage original. Sadly, I haven't seen any clear ones in years. They are all the rere smoked ones. Too bad (hint hint Tamiya!)

[@pattyofurniture5674]

man I'm gonna hold off on putting together my 2015 monster beetle maybe or I'll get to work on my re-released sand scorcher

[@AMPROEngineering]

LOL, this will be an easy install after the build honestly.

[@andyc664]

Wow do you do a kit for this it's awesome I'm in the uk can't find anything like this?!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Hi Andy, yes, there is a set you can get on shapeways. It has all the SLS 3D printed parts but you need to supply your own hardware. Shapeways has a location in the UK so it will dramatically drop shipping/import duties. All information on the suspension is here in episode 37 (kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2WvdpeiqKZphqM) and links to the parts are in the description. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks!

[@andyc664]

AMPRO Engineering could you link me to where I get all the parts need? Also could you recommend a good set of shocks oil type for a black foot?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Here is a link Andy. www.shapeways.com/shops/ampro?section=Tamiya+ORV+Cars&s=0 The part numbers you need are here: 058006-01 ORV Double Wishbone Transmission Base 058007-01 ORV Chassis Brace 058008-01 ORV Double Wishbone Arms and Uprights 058009-01 ORV Battery Access Door And Episode 35 has the installation and hardware you will need. Thanks!

[@modelnutty6503]

year later, ouch. wasn't a fan of the lay down cantilevered shocks on these. we'd cut tubing to put inside the shock body, was less suspension travel but dog bones didn't pop loose! the angle of them were too extreme for efficient power transfer anyway.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Same here. I was afraid of it rolling over all the time.

[@unmoderatedahole]

That will blow the original out of the water in handling. I'm imagining uses for just the lower and upper arm mounts: the trailing arm could be modified with a lateral link to direct the flex...

[@AMPROEngineering]

I can't wait to drive it. I thought about somehow stabilizing the trailing arm but they were are patches. This car has had 34 years of patches. Time for a f%*#ing solution. This also has a compression ring for the diff.

[@unmoderatedahole]

Is there any degree of anti squat in this design? And I replied to your messages, btw. The Yt messaging system is cray. :p

[@AMPROEngineering]

Great question. Yes, there is 50% anti squat. To accomplish this, the rear lower arm mount is angled forward by 4 degrees. Will it work? What, do I look like a physicist? Lol. We shall see!

[@leonridgewell7484]

That double wish bone suspension is a great mod! What do these cost if you dont mind me asking?

[@AMPROEngineering]

That is a good question. I need to check what it is at on Shapeways but around $100? It is a lot of volume for the print.

[@leonridgewell7484]

Wow sure is lol

[@rccarguy7225]

is this kit available and how much is it im thinking about doing this

[@AMPROEngineering]

Check out episode 35. Links to the parts and compete BOM are in the description.

[@mcgarage3963]

Awsome.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thank you!

[@RCTechBattles]

Very nice vid!!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thank you!

[@royflores5470]

I believe that plastic hex shaft was an aftermarket item from CRP. Oh, it's true.

[@pintosnfiats]

Yes you are correct. CRP I think.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yup, CRP

[@tiken7130]

Great 👍 but I don't own a 3d printer how would I able to purchase this product cause this would help my 2016 blackfoot truck I love this but thus driving ne crazy everytime i play with my truck please help lol thank you

[@AMPROEngineering]

I also do not have a printer. All parts are linked to in episode. You will find them all on shapeways.

[@tiken7130]

@@AMPROEngineering ok great another question how would get the hardware is the site for the hardware or would tamyia carry the hardware. But I did write down what hardware that's needed for the suspension. Thank you

[@tiken7130]

@@AMPROEngineering and the suspension how much would it cost me along with hardware. Thanks again

[@AMPROEngineering]

@@tiken7130 The list of hardware is in the video description. You can take that list to a local hobby shop or search for some Tamiya screw bags with the parts needed. Usually, some of the cheaper cars like the Stadium Blitzer have the screw pins or at a hobby shop, you can get actual roll pins.

[@AMPROEngineering]

The total 3D print cost is calculated on shapeways (all links in the video description). They will show you your cost at your currency and shipping to you.

[@pattyofurniture5674]

go with the ball link

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah I think that is the best route.