Early Controversies: The Mystery of the Trinity with R.C. Sproul

[@TheGospelAssociates]

I miss you Dr. RC!!

[@Me2Lancer]

Very informative. Thanks for sharing.

[@tamiratf.tariku9693]

if i can get the written article of this sermon

[@TheSearcher24]

(Isa. 8:20 K.J.V) John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: 👉the word that I have spoken👈, the same shall judge him in the last day. K.J.V • Leviticus 26:11-12 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and MY SOUL shall not abhor you. 👉And I will WALK AMONG you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.👈 K.J.V • John 1:14 And the Word was MADE flesh, 👉and DWELT AMONG us👈, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. K.J.V Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the FORM of God, thought it NOT robbery to be EQUAL with God: But MADE himself of no reputation, 👉and TOOK UPON him the FORM of a SERVANT👈, and was MADE in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. K.J.V Isaiah 42:1 Behold my SERVANT, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. K.J.V Isaiah 43:10-11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, 👉and my SERVANT whom I have chosen👈: that ye may know and believe me, and UNDERSTAND that I am 👉he👈: before me there was NO God FORMED, neither shall there be AFTER me. 👉I, even I, am the LORD; and BESIDE me there is NO SAVIOUR.👈 K.J.V John 8:23-24 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; 👉I am from above👈: ye are of this world; 👉I am not of this world.👈 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye BELIEVE NOT that I am 👉he👈, ye shall die in your sins. K.J.V John 8:58 Jesus SAID unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, 👉I am.👈 K.J.V Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, 👉hath sent me unto you: this is my NAME for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.👈 K.J.V John 5:43 👉I am come in my Father's NAME👈, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. K.J.V Philippians 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and GIVEN him a name which is ABOVE every name: That at the NAME of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. K.J.V 1 Timothy 3:16 And WITHOUT CONTROVERSY GREAT is the mystery of godliness: 👉God was MANIFEST in the flesh👈, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. K.J.V Tony Baugh God is not MADE flesh was MADE according to the seed of David. Romans 1:3-4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was 👉MADE👈 of the seed of David 👉ACCORDING to the flesh👈; And 👉DECLARED👈 to be the Son of God with power, 👉ACCORDING to the spirit of holiness👈, BY the resurrection from the dead: K.J.V Also see: (John 4:24 K.J.V) "God is a Spririt" The Spirit that dwelt in the flesh that was MADE was not named after the flesh. The flesh which was MADE was named by the Spirit what dwelt in that flesh that was MADE according to the seed of David. Also see (Matthew 1:20-21 K.J.V) the name was sent from heaven the name is a heavenly name not an earthly name. The flesh that was MADE was given the NAME of the Spirit that dwelt in that flesh which was DECLARED to be the Son of God, that NAME which was GIVEN is above every other name. Philippians 2:8-11 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and GIVEN him a NAME which is above EVERY name: That at the NAME of Jesus EVERY KNEE should BOW, of things IN heaven, and things IN earth, and things UNDER the earth; And that EVERY TONGUE should CONFESS that Jesus Christ IS Lord, to the glory of God the Father. K.J.V Now read: Isaiah 45:21-25 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have NOT I the LORD?👉 and there is NO God else BESIDE me👈; a just God and a Saviour; there is NONE BESIDE me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, ALL the ENDS of the earth: 👉for I am God, and there is NONE else.👈 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, 👉That unto me EVERY KNEE shall bow, EVERY TONGUE shall swear.👈 Surely, shall one say, in the 👉LORD👈 have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. In 👉the LORD👈 shall all the seed of Israel be JUSTIFIED, and shall glory. K.J.V

[@TheSearcher24]

Is there more than one King and or Potentate? 1 Timothy 6:14-16 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and ONLY Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. K.J.V Look at (1 Timothy 6:16 K.J.V) “Who only hath immortality” Jesus is the only one who have immortality according to (1 Timothy 6:16 K.J.V). Question: Oh what does that do for God the Father And the Holy Spirit; if Jesus is the only one with immortality? If God the Father and the Holy Spirit are 2 separate distinct persons from Jesus Christ as you Trinitarins say then God the Father and the Holy Spirit does not have immortality. Well we just read (1 Timothy 6:14-16 K.J.V) the CONTEXT there of who only have immortality is Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, 👉dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.👈 K.J.V What is that “LIGHT”? (A Soul) Who is that no man have seen? (That would be God the Father.) Jesus dwells in that light very interesting and Jesus only has immortality and Jesus is the blessed and only potentate.

[@questor5189]

Your thoughts are well taken The Searcher. Like you, I leave no stone unturned in my quest for truth. To truly understand the Nature of Christ and his relationship to the Divine one must carefully examine the construction, design, and purpose of the Sanctuary in the Wilderness. "Thy way, O God, is in the Sanctuary" --- Psalm 77:13 " I am the way, the truth, and the life". --- John 14:6 [ see also Mark 14:58 & John 2:19-22 ]

[@TheSearcher24]

@@questor5189 Do you agree with this verse and IS THE LORD the only one in the context that searches the heart? Jeremiah 17:9-10 [9]The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know its? [10]👉I the LORD search the heart👈, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. KJV My answer is YES to this question. What's your answer?

[@questor5189]

@@TheSearcher24 Interesting challenge. I perceive that you are an adherent to the Doctrine of Oneness, Modalistic Monarchianism, and have been attempting to defend it. I share with your sentiments and some of your interpretations. However, I am persuaded of the Spirit and the Word that YHWH is a Singularity and not a Trinity. On this point we are most likely in agreement.

[@TheSearcher24]

@@questor5189 I adhere to the Word of God both the OT & NT. Not to man made doctrines. Question how come u didn't answer the questions I asked you in my last post?

[@AdamRTNewman]

While the Son's begottenness is not a biological begottenness nor a begottenness at a finite point in history, doesn't classical orthodoxy nevertheless still affirm a sense of begottenness that conveys the Son's existence as stemming from the Father - theological term: Eternal Generation of the Son?

[@iacoponefurio1915]

In the beginning was the word The word Was God You are a crazy loony in a low functioning uneducated cult of stupefaction you deny the whole bible

[@AdamRTNewman]

@@iacoponefurio1915 Jesus is the Word. Yes, and whose Word is He? I believe, God the Father’s Word. As the Father Is (remembering the name “I AM”), so also He has coming forth from Himself the highest expression of Himself, which is the Son/Word, and this Son/Word is the same God as the Father.

[@JMusar795]

❤❤❤

[@kiwihans100]

'Mystery' = Greek 'that WHICH IS REVEALED'. Thus If the 'trinity' is a true definition of God, it would have been not only mentioned but explained in detail. The NT is ABSENT as to the 'trinity'! See Rom 16:25,26.

[@Tolseyjoy]

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I AM THE WAY AND THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME. If Jesus is God no one can come to him as well. For no one can come to God without a cover! So, for this to happen, Jesus must be different (our qualifier ) from the one to be approach. Hebrew 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy ARE OF THE SAME FAMILY. And in Hebrew 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY,. Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. No doubt, trinitarians are liars. Beware of them they will take you with them to hell.

[@Tolseyjoy]

Trinity not only created problem but its a lie. The bible was very clear about who Jesus is. Dan7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 HE WAS GIVEN AUTHORITY, GLORY AND SOVEREIGN POWER; ALL nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Jesus title God is not inherent but by exaltation (given). The story of Joseph and the Pharaoh in the old testament points to Jesus relationship with the Father. Equal is not always equal. Pharaoh was pleased with Joseph for interpreting his dream and exalted him to be equal to him as far as Egypt is concern, but in regards to Pharaoh's person, Joseph is not. Genesis 41:40 You shall be in charge of my palace, and all my people are to submit to your orders. ONLY WITH RESPECT TO THE THRONE WILL I BE GREATER THAN YOU.” Genesis 44:18b Do not be angry with your servant (Judah), THOUGH YOU (Joseph) ARE EQUAL TO PHARAOH HIMSELF. Equal but not equal. Jesus was given authority (exalted) because the Father was pleased for allowing himself to be crucified. Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME. JOHN 14:28b If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, FOR THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I. Jesus, as far as creation is, God (Hebrew 1:2b whom he APPOINTED heir of all things), but as far as the Father who gave him the authority Jesus is not. And Jesus will relinquished that authority (being God), at the end time. 1 Corinthians 15:24 Then, the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 FOR HE MUST REIGN UNTIL HE has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] NOW WHEN IT SAYS THAT “EVERYTHING” HAS BEEN PUT UNDER HIM, IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the SON HIMSELF WILL BE MADE SUBJECT TO HIM WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER HIM, SO that God may be all in all. Very clear, there is no reason to doubt cause everything were laid bare. Trinitarians perverted the truth, 2 Peter 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

[@iacoponefurio1915]

This is so foundational anyone without the Son has not life they are dead in their trespasses and sins. They still hate God and his Son. Obvious you cant get into preschool at a solid bible teaching place without this.

[@stevefitzgerald846]

I read somewhere that Arius teased Athanasious that Athanasious had an “unbegotten” begotten Son in Jesus! In other words, the Jesus that Athanasious believed in was called a begotten Son but in reality he wasn’t begotten because he was thought to be as old as His Father, which means that he obviously could not really have been begotten of his Father! Better to do away with theologians and just believe the plain word of God. On this subject, that would mean taking John 3:16 just the way that it reads.

[@TheWatkino]

Steve Fitzgerald when you do as you suggest you end up right where you are and that’s an unbiblical understanding of scripture but holding to the right understanding by way of ignorance. English translations are just that “translations” so until you’ve learned kione Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic to better understand the inspired text hold off from undermining the commitment of faithful theologians and they’re exegesis of scripture. My hope is somebody will read this to steer them as far as possible from your Arianism school of thought that JW’s, Mormons etc still hold too. Trinitarianism is orthodox and as old as scripture regardless to Satans attempts to pervert the character and nature of God.

[@brendaroberts1469]

Jesus said that you must become as a little child when talking about salvation. And God said let US make man. This message is only as good as the one who offered HIS opinion. How could anyone not question his right to an OPINION. When it comes to the bible , opinions wont

[@kiwihans100]

Total rubbish! Just another 'religious intellectual putting forth his thoeries and ideas! I will glady give him £1000 if he can show me just ONE bible verse that actually says "There are three persons on One God". Surely if its the main Christian doctrine its not just IMPLIED, SUGGESTED .t.c.!

[@stevefitzgerald846]

Dave, could God’s people trust theologians in Noah’s day? Or in Elijah’s day, or Christ’s day? If not then why start now? I prefer to take the Bible just as it reads and the Bible say that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, not some co-eternal being. The Father is a real Father and the son is a real son. (As far as I can see from reading scripture) By the way, neither the Mormons nor the Jehovah Witnesses believe as I do. For a Witness, Jesus is a created being. I can’t remember right now what the Mormons say , but I know it is different from what I read in Scripture.......

[@rubiks6]

Isaiah 9.6 gives as one of the names of the Son, "Eternal Father." While the idea may be confusing, the language is quite clear. Don't take men's word for it. Believe the scripture.

[@agapeministriesmx]

Then if you believe Jesus is not created like jws , but He is the Father’s Son, did He have a beginning ? Seems to me that you want to affirm biblical truth, which is good, but without asking and solving the difficult questions, which this gentleman is doing in this video.

[@greenguy2246]

Was not Paul a theologian? Though I do agree that not all theologians should be trusted as Jesus, Jude, John, and Peter all warn of they also give means of testing the teachers. 2 Peter 1:2-11 (LEB): 2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 because his divine power has bestowed on us all things that are necessary for life and godliness, through the knowledge of the one who called us by his own glory and excellence of character, 4 through which things he has bestowed on us his precious and very great promises, so that through these you may become sharers of the divine nature after* escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire, 5 and for this same reason, and by* applying all diligence, supply with your faith excellence of character, and with excellence of character, knowledge, 6 and with knowledge, self-control, and with self-control, patient endurance, and with patient endurance, godliness, 7 and with godliness, brotherly love, and with brotherly love, love. 8 For if* these things are yours and are increasing, this does not make you useless or unproductive in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For the one for whom these things are not present is blind, being nearsighted, ⌊having forgotten the cleansing⌋ of his former sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be zealous even more to make your calling and election secure, because if you* do these things, you will never ever stumble. 11 For in this way entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly supplied for you. And, 1 John 5 (LEB): 5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been fathered by God, and everyone who loves ⌊the father⌋ also loves the child fathered by him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God: whenever we love God and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God: that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome, 4 because everyone who is fathered by God conquers the world. God Has Given Us Eternal Life in the Son And this is the victory which has conquered the world: our faith. 5 Now who is the one who conquers the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? And, Jude 12-13 (LEB): 12 These are the ones feasting together without reverence, hidden reefs at your love feasts, caring for themselves, waterless clouds carried away by winds, late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, uprooted, 13 wild waves of the sea foaming up their own shameful deeds, wandering stars, for whom the deep gloom of darkness has been reserved for eternity. And, Matthew 12:33-37 (LEB): 33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit is good, or make the tree bad and its fruit is bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. 34 Offspring of vipers! How are you able to say good things when you* are evil? For from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good person from his good treasury brings out good things, and the evil person from his evil treasury brings out evil things. 36 But I tell you that every worthless word that they speak, people will give an account for it on the day of judgment! 37 For by your words you will be vindicated, and by your words you will be condemned.” It is by our deeds our students know we are speaking the truth, 1 John 3:18 (LEB): 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. And, John 17:17 (LEB): 17 Sanctify them in the truth-your word is truth.

[@greenguy2246]

​@@agapeministriesmxThe phrase "only begotten son" is referring to Isaac. How God said that Isaac was His only son despite Ishmael being born and the first born at that. So begotten is not used as we would normally use it. With that and the prophecy from Daniel; it would be the most consistent to have the definition as heir to one's possessions. I have more but I'm out of time.

[@questor5189]

Hi Steve. Glad you took the time to watch this video. I began listening to R. C. .Sproul of Ligonier Ministries decades ago, and I consider him him to be one of the leading Theologians of the Twentieth Century. If it is any consolation, I do not consider the teachings of Arius as Heresy. In my best estimation, the key to understanding how the Logos was with God and was God can be demonstrated through by the function of mind. Minds must first conceive a word, then produce the word through speech or by writing. In like manner, Yahweh conceives his very first word in the beginning. The word, when produced, becomes the Logos. It is "begotten". Yahweh has eminence and his word has eminence; However, just as a Father takes the Preeminence over his Son, so Yahweh has the Preeminence over Christ, 1 Corinthians 11:3 & 15:28

[@list3723]

It's sad...I'm sure Dr Sproul went to hell for preaching Trinity (three gods) instead of one God.

[@danielutina6804]

To much Philosophy and no Scripture teaching

[@odavis6912]

So much BLABBERING, over something so SIMPLE. ------- "Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto my Father: but go to my breathren, and say unto them, ***I ascend unto ***my ***Father, and your Father; and to ***MY God, and ***YOUR God " St. John 20: 17 --''' "... neither came I of myself, but he sent me. " --- I came forth from the Father; and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. ------ And the Father himself, which hath sent me , hath bore witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. ------ Jesus said both him and God the Father will come, " .... ***WE***will come unto him, and make ***OUR*** abode with him." St. John 14: 23 ----- I go unto the Father :for my Father is greater than I. St. John 14: 28 ---- But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. ------- THE TRINITY ***IS NOT*** IS NOT*** IS NOT*** MEANING (3) THREE GODS. IT MEANS 1. GOD THE FATHER 2. LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST 3. The Holy Ghost As (1) one, just as, Adam and Eve, ARE... as (1) one. GOT IT NUMB NUTS ? ? ? ----- Herdsman III OLD III

[@peri2338]

The Father called Jesus God in Hebrews

[@sayloltothetroll6806]

What a giant lolcow you are, just like the ones on the KiwiFarms.

[@stevenwebb6253]

Sorry, Jesus isn’t God, nor equal to God. He called our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17.

[@dmthighway]

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. Acts 20:28

[@stevenwebb6253]

@@dmthighway Something to think about: What if……. Jesus was created? What if, he is the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15), repeated at Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:” Is Jesus not the Amen? Proverbs 8:22 “Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.” Hmmm…..Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way……. Who is the way? John 14:6 “Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”” If Proverbs 8:22 isn’t talking about Jesus, then who is it talking about? Please continue with Proverbs 8:30 “Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time;” Who could this be? It sounds like God the Father, Jehovah, who has no beginning, first created the son (see above), then, the son, being God’s master worker (Contractor, sub-contractor, as it were😀), created everything else. John 1:3 “All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.” I’m going to repeat Jesus’ words to Satan when he tried to tempt him at Matthew 4:10 “Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”” I reiterate, just as Jesus did, “HIM ALONE YOU MUST RENDER SACRED SERVICE.”

[@kevi720]

John 1:1. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. John 1:14 reveals the word was Jesus.

[@stevenwebb6253]

@@kevi720 Did you know that in John 1:1-3, there are different Greek words for both Gods mentioned? The Word, Jesus, (Λόγος or Logos), was with God (Θεόν, or Theon). The Word was God (Θεὸς, or Theos). He, Jesus, was in the beginning with God (Θεόν, Theon). Even though these are different cases of the same word, they are nevertheless differentiated. Satan was also called θεὸς, or Theos at 2 Corinthians 4:4. Is Satan also God? Don’t know Greek? Neither do I. Let’s break this down a little further shall we? In the beginning was the word (Jesus, Son of God), and the word (Jesus, Son of God) was with God (Almighty God, God the Father), and the word (Jesus, Son of God) was God (Almighty God, God the Father)? No matter how you put it, it doesn’t make sense!! What does make sense is that Jesus, being in the beginning with God (Genesis 1:26, John 1:1), in fact being God’s very first creation (Colossians 1:15, Proverbs 8:22, Revelation 3:14), actually calls God his God and worships God the Father. (Revelation 3:12, John 20:17)