Early Impressions of the SF6 Patch

[@Call555JackChop]

I read the patch notes and decided in the first 15 seconds the sky is falling and no empirical evidence will change that

[@rydakule]

The whole FGC fell to their knees in Chipotle

[@manuelito1233]

Adapt or die and everyone decided to die, GADDAMN

[@666slateran666]

@@manuelito1233 I have barely been playing season 2. It's a joke

[@thisismybassgun]

​@@666slateran666 😂😂😂

[@TheUbernuck]

@@666slateran666 Weak, I have barely been playing season 1 because uhh throw loops or smth.

[@DengusK]

The best thing about the patch is reading every Cammy player's 500 word essay on how the character is worse than Lily now.

[@BlackDT]

Cammy main here I think she might be worse than third strike Sean who’s with me

[@soldier257]

Im glad that its getting harder to gauge a character’s power and do a definitive tier list. Makes the game more interesting. Devs be cookin rn

[@thisismybassgun]

No, you have to place characters into only "Broken" or "Trash". No nuance! 😂

[@ReverentFella]

Me? For my money? I wanna see more patches like this in the future.

[@beansoclock8748]

I hope the next patch targets system mechanics over individual character changes, bc im really curious where they could possibly go with that

[@666slateran666]

Buffing Luke and not nerfing Rashid? What are they smoking?

[@SomniaCE]

@@beansoclock8748 That has to be saved for seasonal stuff

[@YunisRajab]

@@666slateran666 It's just not nerfing the ysaar

[@charlieharrington9555]

@@666slateran666they nerfed Rashid and the Luke buffs were cool as hell, chill out bro

[@memekingk373]

Juiced Ryu when he low key didnt need it, love to see it

[@whs1pmjazz]

when was the last time ryu was top tier? vanilla sfIV?

[@Rad85PRO]

biblically accurate Ryu

[@RomanticViper]

@@whs1pmjazz Vanilla 5, but you are correct.

[@xkoan-yy7lg]

@@whs1pmjazzhes still not top tier

[@Bleach_Drinker_7]

@@xkoan-yy7lg It's too early to tell

[@GreenBro11]

Kimberly is slowly getting back to where she was in the beta. She might actually be a good character now. One day she might have her time in the sun. The ninja star will shine again!

[@manuelito1233]

It might just be one invincible reversal away

[@magusomnius3201]

The nerf to Ed's back sway is egregious

[@LnktheWolf]

that's the nerf that actually bugs me, the others are fair but that one they hit with the nerf bat too hard imo

[@RicarditoFlores3p]

Only if you main Ed

[@erin_rose0]

i still think I'd put lily bottom 1 in my hypothetical tier list, she got some cool stuff, but nothing crazy crazy important idk, I'd like to see her get some new tools for year 3 so she has more than one normal

[@666slateran666]

It's so sad. As a old sf4 thawk player there is no reason to play Lilly. A grappler player must of hurt the sf6 devs as a kid

[@jerry3115]

@@666slateran666 it's not even a capcom hates grapplers thing, zangief got hella buffs earlier and even though he's still pretty solid didn't get nerfed in this patch. they just don't want lily (and manon) to do anything

[@666slateran666]

@jerry3115 which makes 0 sense to me. I prefer zangief being strong forsure and I get why people cry about him. It's a git gud situation. But why is Mannon so bad? Her normals are trash and she takes 5 medals to be zangief level. And as a Thawk player in 4 I was livid when they removed backwards ex dive. Idk how that was a bug when blanka gets to do it all day. Because he has to charge and Lilly doesn't? It's dumb as hell and honestly I have lost my passion for street fighter due to the balance and meta of the game mostly being rushdown outside of JP. Im glad they slightly buffed Hondas command grab but it's still not enough to bring me back.

[@akilcharles3473]

Lily.might be bottom 1 but I still think she's relatively good even with the small buffs given to her. And let's we not forget out of all the previous bottom tiers like Jaime, Honda & Dhalsim she actually won a major tournament a while back in the start of 2 at Combo Breaker. I still have hope yet for her to do it again if not by someone qualifying into Capcom Cup with her but win in some other tournament.

[@666slateran666]

@akilcharles3473 it's not impossible to win with the bottom tiers, but there is little reason to play someone like Lilly when Gief exists. And you can see that in the character usage for CPT

[@Gleapgoogleplusisgone]

Marisa isn't top tier for sure, but she's so massively better than she was it's spectacular. I got a literal 100 mr increase from this patch with her. I'd get more if my inputs weren't trash.

[@Call555JackChop]

Zach Henke has a great video on Marisa pressure with her new tools

[@Gleapgoogleplusisgone]

@Call555JackChop yes he does I watch his stuff the minute it's up there's no one else close for Marisa tech.

[@BenBenningt0n]

Back to 1500mr let’s go bro congrats

[@judeofford]

I'm curious what changes specifically you've seen good results from? for me the extra range on st.HP is nice but for the most part she's been feeling kinda the same

[@Akusen_Arcade]

Ed got the worst kind of nerf on the back sway. It took away his gameplay identity. His opponents no longer need to be scared of charged flickers, just DI unless he's got 3 bars.

[@JTOnline0919]

"oh no i have to play neutral with my good normals, good projectile, and invincible anti air that hits crossups." -Ed Players

[@GreenBro11]

I think they’ll eventually walk back the Ed killrush nerf. That feels like the JP anti air nerf, a nerf that really guts the character’s defense. It was an overreaction.

[@Akusen_Arcade]

@JTOnline0919 this sounds like somebody who couldn't play against Ed. This has nothing to do with playing neutral or even strength of the character for that matter. It's about gameplay identity and fun factor. He should be the evasive mid range character... And to be evasive he had to give up space, put himself into the corner and risk to be murdered by a jump in... But it was fun.

[@666slateran666]

Yet Rashid is still top 1

[@ftank9083]

The backsway nerf should be toned down a bit for sure. I don't play Ed, but that seems just sad and useless now. If you do st.HP into flicker in instant backsway, you should be able to DI back. But I am ok with making it easier to DI though, just not as much

[@munchatize_me]

I understand ED was/is strong, but if feel like in this patch where they (finally) buffed a lot of the characters' unique abilities, they also kneecapped a lot of what made ED stand out. I don't want characters to lose their identity for the sake of toning them down. (Also, as someone who is bad, the lvl2 change is kind of unfun. It tells me that I just shouldn't even try)

[@comradetyrone2298]

I think part of the reason that Rashid usually gets away scot free is because unlike most of the top tiers like Bison, Ed, Akuma, Ken and Cammy that have multiple top players switching to them, Rashid mains have always been Rashid mains and it's extremely rare for top players to switch to him. In fact the same 5 or 6 top players have been playing him from the start since SFV. I can't name a single other top player that picked him up in SF6 to main.

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

Really good patch overall, they 100% made Ryu into one of the best characters in the game. In my opinion

[@xkoan-yy7lg]

he still feels mid tier

[@azizkash286]

Eh, ryu is good but I can't see him being as broken as akuma cammy bison guile and rashid. He is too honest and relies on the player piloting him. But he has probably the highest damage in the game now.

[@ellachino4799]

​@@azizkash286I mean Marisa still exists but shes a lot worse than Ryu yeah. I think that the crazy part is that Ken might still better than Ryu lol

[@Talking_Ed]

Ryu getting buffed from the worst shoto to the worst shoto!

[@Aggrofool]

Ken and Akuma are still better

[@Tron1110]

Terrys buffs are....*chefs kiss*

[@djhero0071]

Until my bio Jamie makes top 3 (or realistically top 6) at a big tournament, he's always gonna be bottom 1. Dude was the poster child right next to Luke and he's one of the hardest motherfuckers to be even decently competitive with. I really hope that drive gauge buff helps him because man's deserves that shine

[@Silversk3108]

That thumbnail is criminally good

[@azizkash286]

My guess as to why rashid didn't get shot in the head is because if you actually think about it. He is not a very popular character, the best rashid players are well known and he is hard to play. Ken however I don't understand why he keeps getting slaps on the wrist despite his insane tourney presence.

[@EndanDrachon]

Top tier Rashid players are laughing. Lower tier Rashid players like me are still screaming. I know the reward once I get him down is great but until then I'm just gonna be that ASP red string board meme every time I try to play.

[@eebbaa5560]

i don’t have the bandwidth to play rashid, but i’m glad that they haven’t destroyed him yet. there should be a good reward for mastering difficult characters in any game. it’s a travesty when characters like zato get gutted in fighting games because it just signals to players that you shouldn’t be incentivized for aspiring to reach the game’s ceiling.

[@jtsnow4331]

I’m my mind he’s 3rd Strike Yun in this game. Broken top tier, but in order to unlock that you’re going to lose a lot and tweak a lot. I think his level 2 is cheap, but him as a character is not.

[@BronzeAgePepper]

I'd hit Master with Honda months and months ago, he was the one I decided to main once the game actually launched since I was most familiar with him from SF4 and a little SFV. My initial placement was in Diamond 1 but I did go down one or two Platinum ranks at first before clawing my way back up. During the beta when he wasn't in yet, I was totally won over by Jamie, ended up placed in Gold during the beta period. When the game launched I tried him again in ranked (I wasn't confident enough yet with Honda at the very start until I labbed him more and became the "scrub killer" he's infamous for being) and got placed in Bronze. after countless hours and a lot of frustration, last night I finally got him as my second character in Master. Granted, I was already Diamond 5 and well on my way up when the new patch dropped, but it was definitely nice to have even more buffs come after the Ed update. Also it's funny to me that everyone considers my two characters among the worst, I'd feel tempted to blame them sometimes for losing but I know I still need much more experience under my belt before I can say it. Not to mention, both came out a whole lot better this patch.

[@Paltheos]

Honda *is* among the worst... in masters. Character strength varies among ranks, and Honda is one of the strongest in most other ranks because the skills required to stop his game plan generally aren't learned until hitting and grinding in master rank. At which point his game plan becomes significantly more difficult to execute.

[@Shiratto]

1:54 See...I hear that...and I potentially could understand that if Bison wasn't brought back the way he was as you later mentioned.

[@ftank9083]

If DJ's knee is a punish counter, why the hell is demon flip and devil's reverse not punish counter when they are 10000x better? That should have been one of the nerfs

[@melpskrelp1752]

I hard agree the all change jump trajectory they should all be treated roughly the same imo

[@lilacrain3283]

Bro Devil’s reverse is already gutted. If they’re gonna make it PC for the duration of the move they should give it its original hitbox/hurtbox again

[@SomniaCE]

I think 1-2 patches like this and then the 1 big seasonal patch is all we need. Anymore than that and you risk rocking the boat too much or too often and any less can result in the game feeling kinda stale.

[@666slateran666]

@@SomniaCE it's a modern fighting game, it should be patched more especially with the terrible balance it has

[@philipkelly7369]

I was already playing against Ryus that were donkey kicking me over and over! Why, Capcom! whyyy

[@cromsferatu]

I knew there was gonna be a clip of you bullying someone w Ryu and I'm all here for it

[@ILOVEPANCAKES2K]

Ryu definitely on par now with the rest of the roster

[@AdobeTom]

he always was hes just straight up amazing now

[@eduardosgg]

Ken's low forward is so powerful that we decided to nerf ed's medium kicks

[@DoctorCVC]

As a Manon main, I’ll take all the drive meter the devs want to give me lol.

[@tjhunter9787]

My conspiracy of why they want to Keep Marisa from being particularly good is because the sf community prolly still has ptsd from Abigail and don't want a Huge easy character to takeover the meta again

[@HellecticMojo]

More reason to bring Abigail back

[@Aggrofool]

Manon changes are nothingburger. HK is usually from mid distance, so +1 on hit seldom leads to anything. Meter gain on grabs only kicks in late match where you'd prefer oki over hit grabs anyways.

[@Ubebread1]

It's a guessing game in which moves are positive and negative on block...

[@alfredososa3059]

Akuma still doing Akuma things, Bison still 2-touches you, Rashid and Ken still brain dead, but sure nerf the hell outta Ed

[@rafdes]

Other than the perfect parry glitch, I think they’re doing a great job with the patches.

[@Zoth87]

When i saw the tweet that Akuma's backwalk is now the same as Chun's i lost my mind. First, because my slow warclub wielding ass can't catch up to Chun either, second because i didn't even know he was faster than her.

[@flamoctapus4445]

Regarding Honda, it's definitely an issue of top players not bothering with him. The most recent example is Hikaru picking him up and immediately doing great with him, but even in S1 Punk would play him in tournaments on stream and get top 8 with him. I think a huge part of the problem is the perception around the character. The first things people think of with him are Headbutt and Buttslam, but at a high level those are both pretty bad overall. Headbutt is decent, doesn't really put him in a super great spot after being blocked, and Buttslam is just a free parry or AA most of the time. The actual good parts of his kit (5MP, corner carry, damage, burn out pressure) all get overlooked because of it. TLDR, someone is going to put time into him after Capcom cup and he's going to start getting results. I'd put him at midtier at worst currently.

[@oneunripemango1858]

So excited for Ed mains who have been doing qcf win neutral and drive rush but I don’t have to spend any gauge for some reason for the last 4 months to tell me how safe of block donkey kick is the most evil thing they’ve ever seen

[@blastimbre]

Sure buddy

[@Nooctae]

I mean yeah, can't have Marissa be good, only Bison is allowed to oneshot you every round.

[@georgesmith5201]

That thumbnail had me giggling. Homer getting donkey kicked.

[@Bupernox]

10/10 thumbnail

[@brocksteele7475]

2:36 Evidence that Ryu is a MASSIVE bed hog.

[@bofaybaykweh]

lily is bottom 1 for sure, lots of dumb restrictions that other chars don't have for not much in exchange

[@khanhhuynh5451]

Blanka mains: at least we didn’t get nerfed…

[@abrittishpanfish6269]

Ed and Cammy this patch got prescribed with a boot to the head (from ryu)

[@Fidel_Cashflow]

rashid isn't going to get nerfed until there are 8 of them in every top 32. and since only 5 people play him worldwide, that's never going to happen. cammy, akuma, ken, and bison players are gonna have to hold that.

[@coldspine2490]

you see my man, Rashid is a specialist character, meaning you have to put time labbing him to be really good. so he has some technical aspect, i believe thats why capcom didnt change much except his ex dp oki and stuff. people like to complaining because they are used to pick easy akuma, bison and cammy and roll.

[@NamelessThun]

Ed kinda got destroyed by the insane change to back kill rush that hitbox doesn't even look right with how stupid it is now

[@GSen45]

I just switched back to ed only for them to cook me.

[@FhargaZ]

It's broken 😂, that perfect parry killing the buffer bug just destroyed the tournaments this week.

[@laffy7204]

I imagine Endingwalker has a tough choice ahead of him

[@thatguy8841]

Not really, he still has a pocket Ryu if he wants to win

[@jpVari]

Ultra David really believes in Honda and he's super smart. Ryus crazy, so glad I have stuck with him and jp. They're so satisfying. I like the way they improved Terry, I'm glad they at least touched every character that's crazy strong. On principle alone.

[@uwabamiJohnny]

I wish they didnt nerf Ed because I’m bad and want to be carried 😢

[@charlieharrington9555]

I felt the same way when Dee jay got nerfed 😢

[@purefire21]

Guile back fist need to hit on crouching opponents

[@PotofGlue]

I feel yall on throw loops sucking but I equally hate mechanics like jump cancel where theres 0 risk and basically the only downside is difficult execution.

[@Mclucasrv]

Is lily the best character in the game?

[@Doople]

Marisa changes are nice because they give you more reason to charge heavies but her damage isnt that impressive compared to what other characters do. I really would rather take a Bison-like dmg "nerf" if she was more stable or got access to my consistent dmg

[@beroberoberoberobero852]

Nemo Rashid next????

[@erichurtado4938]

The only “Minor” patch is one that hits someone else’s main.

[@HellecticMojo]

Why are the anti airs still unfair af in this game

[@duniadeltzu]

Lily doesn't even exist.

[@benzoFE88]

Was a great patch but remember the top 2 characters in the game were only nerfed to top 2 don’t let em get away with downplaying 🤧

[@666slateran666]

@@benzoFE88 Rashid still being top 1 is crazy. Pakistani tekken players do not care about sf6 lol

[@Nimrod336]

Bro they stop the cpt na tournaments today perfect perry into knockdown takes away wake up buffer shits broke

[@eebbaa5560]

on the subject of ed, idk why people can’t understand balance changes in context. they just see “top tier nerf” and start drooling on their keyboards. ed’s nerfs are lame and make his weaknesses even harder to deal with instead of addressing why he was apparently too strong and leaving it at that. ed is a character designed around playing in the midrange; he has bad defensive and close-range options and they made those even worse on top of nerfing what were supposed to be his strengths. if they only nerfed his mk the changes would’ve been fair but now one of his specials is pretty much unusable and he struggles even more once someone gets past his effective range, which is just easier to do now. the nerfs destroyed his whole gameplan. at any rate, i think the silver lining is that once ed hopefully gets some compensation buffs for overnerfing him, he’ll be out of the public eye for a while as a solid mid-tier character. it wasn’t my intention to “pick a top tier” when ed came out anyway, and i learned my lesson. seeing how characters like ryu are panning out this patch, i think i’m going to steer clear from playing the best characters in the future. on that note, and as for what i actually like about this patch, terry and jamie both getting buffs is cool and they both seem to have received a somewhat meaningful increase in playability and strength. i’ll be playing a lot more of them moving forward, especially jamie, who i started out with. also looking forward to playing more AKI.

[@thatguy8841]

They're playing dumb, they were bad at fighting him so they want him to be bad

[@AuroraBorealis670]

Seeing this patch makes me even sadder about the Guilty Gear patch

[@666slateran666]

@@AuroraBorealis670 GG patch was sick. I didn't even Kara with pot so i wasn't crying. And as a ram player I'm cackling all the way to the bank

[@HellecticMojo]

At least Strive has functional anti airs.

[@Calhasnopals]

The only patch note that could ever satisfy me would read something like - Removed all characters in the Shoto archetype So I'm afraid until that happens, 0/10, going back to Nintendogs

[@Vsolid]

🚩

[@melpskrelp1752]

Hating all shotos is a skill issue

[@thatguy8841]

Booo

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

I still want to see throw loops removed from the game, I just strongly feel like it would make the game way more interesting and fun for both playing and watching. Its not the worst thing that they remain though, still very much enjoying the game. I'd take more costumes for the main cast vs removing through loops anyday lol. They really need to ramp it up on the costumes, like I want to give them my money, will they let me?!

[@666slateran666]

@@thepunisherxxx6804 devs think that it's cool that everybody can do throw loops regardless of skill level. It will stay

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

@@666slateran666 Until Japanese pros get loud about it*

[@HellecticMojo]

​@@666slateran666except everyone can't.

[@666slateran666]

@@HellecticMojo what are you talking about? Most characters have stupid easy throw loops and the average person could grasp the concept fairly easily.

[@HellecticMojo]

@@666slateran666 most =/= everyone Jesus Christ

[@WutTheDeuceGaming]

All the Ed mains whining about flicker in the comments are just self reporting how they played the character. That is, sitting half screen length away, spamming the piss out of it. Poor things, now you actually have to use his buttons to control space in the neutral instead of using a swiss army knife special move that did it all for you. DJs sway got nerfed, it did the same thing without the godlike projectile. How do you expect Ed's sway to stay the way it is considering it was even stronger than DJ's? Fuckin goobers.

[@blastimbre]

This nerf didn't impact standing at mid screen. It impacts his block strings and pressure bud. If you think dashing away from the opponent wins neutral. I am afraid you don't know what you're talking about. The whole point of backsway was to call out DI. Now that DI cleanly beats backsway. The option is effectively useless.

[@dannyrvt6924]

Wow I’m mad early!!!

[@kriscotd76]

Don’t know why you guys say guile is up there when he literally got nothing useful the last 2 patches .Ryu is better than guile at this point .only people playing guile on a pro level is the same people who was playing him in sf 4-5 ..

[@GFClocked]

Still waiting for sf6 overlay to unlock fps like in Tekken 8. Idk why you guys have such low standards and without any technical knowledge somehow think fighting games must run at 60fps, when it's clearly not true just looking at t8 overlay.. for me 120fps is bare minimum for casual games, and 240+ is needed for comoetitive.

[@chimpmasterflex]

For Ed, I think it is one of those weird changes, where it mostly affects the bad ones. Like sure some pros were being a little silly with some of his stuff, but they'll just clean up the play a little. Also not sure why people think Cammy got destroyed or something. She is mostly the same character. Sure, they hit her and Ed the hardest, but there's another 5-ish characters that could've, and maybe should've been hit as hard. I don't think it changes very much.

[@NessOnett8]

Time will tell, but I'm pretty sure Ed is dead. His main identity, and the strengths attached to it are just gone. Imagine if they nerfed Zangief by making all his command grabs have 20 frame startups. That's basically Ed this patch. I foresee him having no presence in tourneys and most players dropping him quickly.

[@ellachino4799]

Dawg you did not just compare backsway nerf to changing spd to 20 frames go get a career in politics with that hyperbole

[@BCfightan]

@@ellachino4799he got way more nerfs than just his backsway though

[@ellachino4799]

@@BCfightan if zangief had spd made to 20 frames you may as well delete him. His entire existence is his spd. Ed isn't nearly as one dimensional and his nerfs aren't even kind of comparable.

[@rafdes]

@@BCfightanc’mon just because his crLK and MK are just a little slower and punishable just means the ed player has to be a little more careful. Y’all ain’t used to thinking ahead, that’s all.

[@thatguy8841]

​@@rafdes neither of those buttons are slower and that's not even what's being complained about

[@jakeenglish8224]

Me? I make Akuma busted as fuuuuuuuuudge

[@666slateran666]

The fact they barely touched lilly but left rashid top 1 is ridiculous. People who say this game is balanced are smoking the good stuff

[@arielbar-zeev8473]

what game do you think is balanced?

[@666slateran666]

@@arielbar-zeev8473 I mean, games like tekken where almost every character is viable. Way better then this clown show

[@Kysen10]

@@666slateran666 t8 is worse lol. Barely nerfing high tiers, how long has drag been stupidly OP?

[@666slateran666]

@Kysen10 you obviously haven't been paying attention. They've nerfed drag a ton, he's maybe still top 5 but he's not broken. Now it's Nina and Yoshi that people consider top tier like that

[@DengusK]

​@@666slateran666 Almost every character is viable in Tekken except the 5+ characters that are bottom tier and there's literally no reason to play them over their counterparts: Devil Jin, Panda, Azu, Lee, Raven, etc.

[@AndreEndo]

Honestly, the biggest nerf to Ryu they have yet to fix is that dumb donkey kick animation....

[@charlieharrington9555]

I think it looks pretty good. It actually looks like a proper Sokutogeri kick now, unlike in SFIII where his form was all wrong.

[@Demonstormlord]

​@@charlieharrington9555His form wasn't that bad in SF3 though? Is it the step-through with the rear leg you don't like?

[@AndreEndo]

@@charlieharrington9555 If you wanna talk about form, the fact his anchored foot is pointing backwards is clearly not "good form" for a sideways kick. I mean, his whole body is twisted as if he was doing an Ushiro Geri.

[@charlieharrington9555]

@@Demonstormlord his form in the sfiii animation is closer to a Ushero Geri kick, which would be fine except the name of the move is literally “Joudan *Sokuto Geri*”. The animation in SF6 is more accurate to what a Sokuto Geri would look like.

[@charlieharrington9555]

@@AndreEndo for a sokuto Geri kick is supposed to have the foot pointing slightly back, so the correct form for a sokuto Geri is represented in the SF6 version, rather than the SFIII version, where he leans back much further in a form more akin to a ushiro geri.

[@sooryibeatusobad1]

I HATE blade kick and i hated it before the patch! I feel like such a scrub complaining about Ryu of all characters, but it needs something to tone it down just A BIT

[@thatguy8841]

Why

[@666slateran666]

🤡 devs