Early Training of Vines

[@philipwilliams5808]

Finally! Someone explains it in a way I can understand. The diagrams make such a difference. Thanks so much!

[@grantcramer]

Glad it helped!

[@zonktified1247]

Clear, concise and great explanations to the "why". Thank you so much for posting.

[@grantcramer]

I am glad it was helpful!

[@MGrace-16180]

Thank you for a very clear and concise explanation of how to prune my second year grapes, this is the best video I've seen. Regards!

[@grantcramer]

You are welcome!

[@growingoutthebox]

One of the most digestible explanations of vine training. TFS

[@grantcramer]

Glad it was helpful!

[@EnlightenedPatriot1]

HI Professor Cramer. I wonder if you might help? My apologies for this convoluted comment, mine not being the usual situation of starting from scratch. I was given a 6x8 greenhouse from next door, along with a spasmodically-fruiting vine, both over 30 years old. I moved both late last year and knowing nothing about vine cultivation, I rightly/wrongly had to cut off the main vine stem (?), about 1.5" diameter, in order to remove and transport it to its new site. The whole thing had been left to fill the greenhouse with leaves. This time, I planted it outside, rather than inside, leaving two green 8' cordons/shoots (?) attached, to pass inside the greenhouse. They have since turned woody. I also had to cut much of the long root system off, leaving as much as I could. I watered it in, composted and mulched it well to hopefully survive the winter frosts. I was recently delighted to see buds starting to appear along these runners, which I have run at head height, down both sides of the plastic tube roof frame I have made to support each runner. There are now leaves starting to develop every few inches along each runner (sorry, I don't know terminologies) and am not sure what to de next 😞. I am hoping it may fruit again I am assuming my set-up best matches Option 3 @5.0. Firstly, could you please advise me if I should allow both runners to develop, or cut back to just one at the external root. It does seem a shame when both are as healthy-looking and at the similar stage, but it may be best for any fruit production? Secondly, do I leave all the leafing buds alone (except perhaps those pressing outwards up against the glass, facing the East/sun? Thirdly, could you point me to a video where you explain how and where to further prune and developing shoots or leaves (I note they also put out tendrils) so that I do not remove new grow from where grapes may develop, Lastly, should I still remove any such fruit appearing this year, or next, as you suggest, even though it is not a new vine? Because of other greenhouse plants, I want to prune well to minimise leaf shade. Thank you for any advice offered. Kind regards. Malcolm (UK)

[@grantcramer]

Hi Malcolm, what kind of grape are you growing and for what purpose? For making wine, for table fruit? Is it grafted or growing on its own root? This could affect what kind of fruit you get, domestic or wild. Otherwise, I would say keep the two trunks that you are training and let the vines grow until you feel there is no more room for them. It is up to you whether you want to collect the fruit. It might not be very productive for a year or so, depending upon how much of the original vine is still there. Since you are talking about one vine and it inside of a greenhouse, I would say it was safe to leave the fruit on it. However, again it may rob the vine of energy and reduce fruit production for next year. Maybe not. Good luck and let me know how it turns out!

[@rosertaylor6139]

I have a similar situation of an old vine transplanted to a different outdoor plot. I had to prune it heavily when I moved it. First 2 years it grew vine & leaves but no fruit . This 3rd yr it had a few grapes but very small, however grew LOTS of vine & leaves. I put a lot of fertilizer in the ground at planting. It is about 8ft high this year. How hard do you recommend to prune it this year? Thank you for explaining with this video, very helpful.

[@g.levine8123]

Thanks for this! Exactly what a beginner needs because reading about growing grapes sounds like a lot of gobbledegook until you see it explained like this. Good job!

[@grantcramer]

You're very welcome! I am glad it was helpful!

[@firecloud77]

Holy smokes, these concepts have finally sunk into my thick skull, thanks to your color coding of the vines. Outstanding video. Now I can finally prune my grapes with the confidence that I know what I'm doing. Thanks so much!

[@grantcramer]

Great to hear!

[@anapaulacrawford5837]

Oh my gosh, I been watching so many videos about grapes care and this one explains all. I was about to do the wrong thing right now. Thank you!!

[@grantcramer]

I am glad it was helpful.

[@alseveron6558]

Thank you for the helpful video, Prof. Cramer... Between Option 2 and Option 3, from your diagram, which do you recommend? (I'm thinking of picking one of those two options, because I'm just growing a single Rhea grape vine in my garden and want a symmetrical form.) I'm in southern England, where the climate is much like northern California. The trellis I built is 11ft wide, and 8ft tall . Eventually, I'd like to fill the upper 2/3 of that space with the vine. I'm not looking for maximum fruit production. Thank you!

[@grantcramer]

Thank you! Option two would be best for you! Good luck!

[@HHg-dq6nh]

I am very happy about that episode, thank you.

[@grantcramer]

I'm glad you like it

[@michelnublat8981]

Thank you for the video. at what height from the ground does one cut in all the options. Many thanks Professor

[@grantcramer]

It depends on how high you want the fruit to grow. Most people like to harvest the grapes at a height just above their waist. So it depends on your height and what you are most comfortable to harvest at. I hope that helps.

[@kamhyde40]

Hi--Thanks for the concise visuals explaining spur training of young vines. I have 2 seedless dessert varieties: Thompson and Flame. Can you speak to the idea that less vigorous varieties( Thompson's) are best cane pruned? I am experimenting with cane pruning the Thompson's and spur pruning the Flame.

[@grantcramer]

I am not sure that the pruning method will have much affect. I think you are going to stimulate growth by pruning more severely, that is prune for less buds. Too many buds will produce too much fruit and rob the vigor from the shoots. You want to have a balanced vine. But be careful to not overprune, you could produce bull canes which are fruitless. See my video on the principles of pruning.

[@kamhyde40]

That's interesting . Lots of conflicting info --on the internet to say the least--I try to rely on science based folks like yourself and the U of PA . At the moment, I have a modified goblet shape going on the 4th year Thompson's . I have allowed both to fruit in 3rd year , so I can't fix that but I did see those 'bull canes'' last year on the Flame- 5th year.. IF I identify 'bull canes' should I just prune them out? Do you have a brief video about your feeding/fertilizing protocol? Looked--but couldn't find one. Thanks for the response.@@grantcramer

[@kamhyde40]

If I was do cane prune the Thompson's, do yo have a recommended # of nodes to each cane? I guess you're growing wine grapes? Grafted ? Thanks@@grantcramer

[@grantcramer]

There are lots of factors that determine the number of buds. Size and age of the vine, vine spacing, soil depth, climate. I don't have any experience with Thomspson Seedless, but here is a link that describes it and how to prune it in detail. I would follow their advice at ucanr.edu/sites/Tulare_County/files/82020.pdf

[@kamhyde40]

Supposedly seedless are a bit more finicky than wine varieties. Thank u. I will check out the link you kindly sent. I'm not sure what the cause of bull canes are outside of rich, mist soil which I lack. Mine is UT sodic but I do fertilize. Thanks!@@grantcramer

[@paulbraga4460]

would you make a video on how you fertilize your grapes. i can't find this matter discussed in youtube...blessings

[@grantcramer]

Yes, that is a good idea. I will make one specifically on this topic. I do talk about it in the second half of my video called NVViticulturePart2-SiteSelection&SoilAnalysis

[@jeffthomas5866]

So, I have some grapes (Victoria Red, Southern Sensation) in post purchased a few weeks ago. The Victoria Red are already about 6 ft tall and the Southern Sensation are about 3 ft high. Do I treat them as '1st year' plants and let them continue to grow, or start pruning and training?

[@grantcramer]

That's a good question! I am not really sure of the answer. I think you could go either way. You could prune them back and train them the way you want or you could leave them alone and prune them back next year. My guess is they will be fine either way. Either way they will start to put more energy to develop the root system and restore balance in the plant.

[@mssavedin92]

New to grape vines. Im trying to figure out best way to get mine established. In ground or in large pot. We may move. So..I have 2 vines that are 1 yr old...I figure I would keep them in pots, wondering about the pruning. If they are in pots for next two years or so...and we want to move them...how much of the cordons is safe to prune off in order to move the plants.

[@grantcramer]

It is very hard to kill the vines. You can prune them back as far as you want and latent buds will break to make a new trunk or cordons or extensions on the cordon.

[@mssavedin92]

@@grantcramer Thankyou for your reply, I appreciate that. So..its basically all good.

[@bryanlee5390]

very nice and clear. thank you, professor.

[@grantcramer]

I am glad it was helpful.

[@bunifer]

Perfect video. Thanks for your knowledge and expertise

[@grantcramer]

Glad it was helpful!

[@weekendwp]

This was incredibly helpful. Thank you!

[@grantcramer]

You're so welcome!

[@bittypie]

Thank you so much for this! If we opt for the goblet shape with no wires how do we support the canes? Will they not need support if the stake is strong?

[@grantcramer]

The goblet shape/head will have spurs. The shoots will hang over like an umbrella. You can trim them if they get too long.

[@bittypie]

@@grantcramer This will definitely save space AND make my vines easier to transport when I move. Thank you so much! How deep do the roots grow? Would a 20 gallon grow bag work for my vines?

[@grantcramer]

I couldn't say. Roots can grow 10 ft deep depending on the soil type, roots or root stock, and how old the vines are. As a guess, you could say the root system will be as big as the shoot system. I have seen some roots grow 50 ft down into a cave below the field in southern France.

[@bittypie]

@@grantcramer This is incredible information. Thank you so much. I will use large grow bags and plant in ground in 2 to 3 years when I'm able. Just in time for fruiting :)

[@qugnf5j]

I have 2 pots of vines, i want to do the head training. They are still in the shade. My questions are about watering, how often do we water them? I’m using 5gallon fabric pots. And when should I put them out in the open? I’m in the tropics. And Also, do I need to bring them back in when raining?

[@grantcramer]

That's tricky because it depends on the size of the vine, the size of the pot, the type of soil, and how warm it is. I would water them daily at first and then maybe back off to every other day. Keep an eye on them and look for signs of water stress like short tendrils or wilting. See my video on irrigation if you want to know more: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y37Vipl-nM-nrLM In addition, if they are not yet use to direct sun, then you might want to start out exposing them directly to the sun at 1 h per day and increase it by 1 h per day on a daily basis, until you are at full sun all the time. I think they will like the rain, but you have to be careful about fungal diseases, so you may need to spray them with a fungicide. It depends on temperature conditions, moisture levels and what grape variety you are growing.

[@qugnf5j]

@@grantcramer thank you so much for very clear explanation ❤️

[@MrJcalvino]

In the second year the shoots are not long enough to make a cordon. You always leave one spur (2 buds) on the best placed cane because the you have to take in account the sap flow.

[@grantcramer]

Thank you for your comments!

[@nrrajedsolutions]

👍🏾👍🏾 very methodical. thank you for your information it is greatly appreciated🙏🏾

[@grantcramer]

You are very welcome

[@allanpennington]

Im in NZ and have deep purple table grape vines. Pretty sure I get fruit on the 1st years new canes that grow. However Ive never really found out whether cane or spur pruning is best. Ive tried both but can't tell which is best. One thing is the vines are very vigorous and whilst I tried to keep on top of lateral growth and overall height the vines got away on me again this summer. Whilst three years ago I rejuvenated by initially hard pruning and re-establishing new cordons Im not getting much fruit. I suspect my cordons are a little long but it could be I need some super??? Certainly don't need any nitrogen as the vines are always lush, green and as I said very vigorous. I even tried two rows of fruiting cordons to try and get more growth into fruiting wood rather than extreme lateral and height growth but that didn't help. Any advice? Thanks

[@grantcramer]

Hard pruning can cause the formation of bull canes which will not produce any fruit. These canes are very vigorous. The goal is to have Balanced pruning and get even yields year after year.

[@ezzymazoni1100]

i have a question, i know how you said the first year let all the grown do its thing but what if your starting from bare root? This was a very helpful video i’ve been doing research about pruning grapes and nothing was as helpful as this. So thank you so much couldn’t of done it with out you. also if you can answer this as soon as possible my time is running out for the spring. Thank you again

[@grantcramer]

Yes, don’t prune them in the first year. The more leaf growth you can establish the more root growth you can develop for better growth next year. Hope that helps!

[@oninsvlog]

thanks for sharing my friend, happy farming

[@grantcramer]

Thank you!

[@oninsvlog]

@@grantcramer welcome my friend

[@mytigereyez]

Great video! My question is, I bought a 3 year old Vanessa Red Grape for my Oregon zone that I just planted in front of a trellis. Because it's already 3 years old, can I keep the fruit the first year?

[@grantcramer]

I wouldn't keep the fruit, but it is up to you. Get a little bit of fruit now or get a lot more fruit later. By removing your clusters, you will allow your vine to use its energy to make a much more extensive root system and thicker trunk with more canes to produce more fruit in the future.

[@mytigereyez]

@@grantcramer thank you!

[@denizugur77]

Hi thanks for theis detailed video . may we get the powerpoint presentation

[@grantcramer]

Thank you for your interest. I no longer have the ppt but I give you permission to recreate them as long as you give credit to me. Good luck.

[@cofarmx]

Hello Professor, I am in Africa and I will like to grow grapes, What types of training will you advise? I have a tropical climate with variable rainy and dry seasons.

[@grantcramer]

Option two is the most common, however any of these systems would work. Option 3 does not require a trellis system so it is cheaper. The size of the trellis will depend on the vigor of your vines. If they are very vigorous, you will need a larger, stronger trellis system. I hope that helps.

[@mohammad3034]

Awesome video

[@utubebp1]

Thank you for the instruction. I would like to try the head train method and have one question: how tall is the stake?

[@grantcramer]

Good question! It depends on how high you want the grape clusters to be for picking. So that depends on your height, etc

[@utubebp1]

@@grantcramer Thank you Professor Cramer for the quick reply to my question. I am 5"4" and my husband is 5'7" so I think ideal picking height at eye level. So how do I calculate the stake height from ground level? I know I need to add 18-24" to go underground. I watched several times your video on early training of vines. I understood the clear instructions when watching it, then I go look at my year 2 vines and became unclear. One year ago I planted the vines along a 42" tall chainlink fence, before I found your video, I removed all shoots except the top shoot. I cut it at 6'. On one vine two shoots grew and form a nice T but others didn't probably due to sun exposure and soil. Now year 2, in early March I let the nice T be, but cut the other vines along the chainlink fence at the fence height (42"). Now (April 7), about 6-8 new shoots grew out of the 42" stem, with each shoot having 3-8 leaves and more. I think I need to give these shoots support or they'll droop and break. Now my question is : should I cut the tip of each shoot at 10th leaf now or let it grow freely all season, then when all leaves drop in the Fall, prune the vine to 8 shoots with 2 buds each? Thank you.

[@grantcramer]

Let the vines continue to grow. That will allow it to build up starch resources in the trunk and roots for the future. Wait until next season to prune the vine when the vines are dormant.

[@samialfotouh7559]

Thank you so much Prof, Grant for this informative explanation...Just I have a question ...I have a seedling of Moon Drop grape , how can I prune it later after full maturation ? spurs of 2 nodes or canes ...much appreciated..

[@grantcramer]

I am sorry, I can't answer your question. I need more information. I am not familiar with grape. Is it for wine or table grapes? What are your climate conditions? How old are your vines? What are your goals for production?

[@MrAltControl]

Hi Grant, I got this the best description. Could please tell me if it works for Seedless Tomson too, and what kind of trail vine is best for Tomson seed less? Thanks a lot

[@grantcramer]

Thompson Seedless vines are very vigorous. The principals that I outlined apply but traditionally these are produced with wider spacing. Consequently the vines would be larger, have more fruit and require a different stronger trellis system. Hope that helps you!

[@kamhyde40]

See my other response--some grape gurus are sayingT's is a less vigorous variety and s/b cane pruned? I have a Thompson's and a Flame side by side and I would say I can observe that my T seems less vigorous than the Flame? And that less vigorous varieties might be better cane pruned. Your input? Thanks@@grantcramer

[@s.devries4349]

very helpful vdo, clear, easy to understand thank you very much

[@grantcramer]

Your welcome!

[@nrrajedsolutions]

I have a question I would like to do multiple “air layering” on my 2 seedless grape Vines on my back porch. The vines have grown across an 8ft x 14 ft trellis over my back porch. I wish to propagate 15 to 30 plants and relocate or transplant them to my dads farm. Can this be done? What are the pros and cons?

[@grantcramer]

I am sorry, I don't have experience with this. I can't answer your question.

[@Pants13]

Most grapes are relatively easy to propagate via cuttings.

[@johanconradie2120]

one single cordon with shoots every 20 cm PERFECT!

[@grantcramer]

Glad you like it! Have fun!

[@agunggiri3209]

Thank you... From Indonesia 🇮🇩 🙏

[@grantcramer]

Your welcome!

[@mahidharmanat5681]

🙏🏼🙏🏼❤️ thank you 💖

[@grantcramer]

You are so welcome

[@timdarmetko4039]

awesome. thanks

[@grantcramer]

You're welcome!

[@aliasgarden5876]

Very good video

[@grantcramer]

Thank you. I am glad you liked it!

[@tahirshahzad7946]

Options 2 is best

[@johanconradie2120]

Option 1 is NUMBER ONE!

[@meek.intuitive]

Mine looks more like option 2.... Accidentally. 😂

[@WildernessMapper]

Oops me 2

[@grantcramer]

Keep up the good work!

[@grantcramer]

You must be a natural!

[@turkkurt-nl9hn]

helo 🏴

[@grantcramer]

Where are you from?

[@turkkurt-nl9hn]

gəyistən🎌