Earth Force Lexington Vs Minbari Black Star

The Minbari Ace Cruiser "Blackstar" had been stalking near belt orbit swiftly defeating ship after ships of the Earth Alliance. On another one of it's attack the Blackstar destroyed the entire Lexington fleet and leaving the Lexington badly damaged.
The Lexington however survived and sent out a distress signal, the Blackstar intercepted the distress call and comes back to finish off the Earth Force ship...
However Commander Sheridan lurred the Blackstar into a trap and destroyed it, providing the Earth Alliance its first and only victory in the Earth-Minbari war.

[@LordZontar]

John Sheridan's first demonstration of the proposition that there's no problem that can't be solved by the judicious use of thermonuclear weaponry.

[@badlaamaurukehu]

A lesson to be learned.

[@robertcooper4935]

The man did know how to use a nuke

[@davidpickens8800]

He only uses them 4 times in his career, it's not like he enjoys it

[@LtSpiteful]

@@davidpickens8800 that double what humanity has ever done inn war for real 🤷‍♂️😂

[@glennhenrywangensteen2140]

At least he didn't ride yelling yeehaw. Hahaha

[@DrownedInExile]

Sheridan's apology to the Minbari for his "cowardly" act: "I apologize. I'm sorry. I'm sorry your people felt the death of one man was sufficient warrant for genocide. I'm sorry I had the gall to fight back the only way we knew how, and in a way you didn't expect. I'm sorry your Black Star's captain was so careless and arrogant as not to recognize the trap he was blundering into. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them straight to hell! After all, it's the thought that counts."

[@carnorjax007]

I REALLY want to know what episode he says that because its badass

[@Gilmaris]

What Sheridan _should_ have said was, "I'm sorry for using the exact same tactic against the Black Star as the Black Star was using first in the same encounter."

[@Serin9X]

He didn't actually say that, it's a variation of an "apology" he gave for destroying a Centauri cruiser that attacked Babylon 5. It's a good one though.

[@spookyshadowhawk6776]

carnorjax007 Episode 22, The Fall of Night. The apologie Sheridan was ordered to give to the Centauri after Destroying one of their cruisers. They tried to blow him up on the way to make it. They failed and Sheridan didn't apologize. Still a great choice of words!

[@dennisalfonso7699]

Sheridan "Starkiller". Badass

[@Erick_Bloodaxe]

"Hell, I didn't want to live forever anyway." One of his best lines IMO.

[@brandonreed09]

And it's arguable that he actually does end up living forever thanks to Lorien.

[@thitsugaya1224]

That's a pretty long list, he had a lot of great lines, but so did the rest of the cast for that matter.

[@timmorris2048]

Ranks right up there with Lt Worf saying, "I guess today IS a good day to die."

[@lindencamelback2305]

The spirit that separates Humans from the rest of the menagerie. "I have not begun to fight."

[@Erick_Bloodaxe]

@@lindencamelback2305 yep. “I have not yet begun to fight!” Was said by, John Paul Jones, one of my favorite officers from history. It’s so much more powerful when you know the context in which he said it.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Oh, only 15 years until the almighty algorithm decided that I am worthy and ready for this.

[@sparrowlt]

One of the rare cases of showing a ship without artificial gravity. Acording to sources the Black Star was a shargotti class heavy cruiser, even larger than the standatd Sharlin class cruiser . Love the Hyperion class (Lexington) design

[@NatronFatumallafalla]

17 yrs

[@craigs71]

@@NatronFatumallafalla The pilot aired in 1993, 31 years ago!!! Still my favourite show bar none.

[@Taneth]

Funny how the Minbari were so upset with Sheridan doing this, when it was them doing the same thing with a fighter that got the Lexington into this situation in the first place (and destroyed a bunch of other EF ships in the process).

[@danieldickson8591]

Nearly anything you can do to "the enemy" is acceptable if it brings victory. It's an outrage if they do it to you. That's human nature, and it seems the Minbari aren't very different in that regard.

[@davidlewis5312]

Minbari definition of honor is weird. Gunning down men in life boats isn't seen as civilized

[@charlesw5919]

That tech gap must be absolutely maddening. Other than setting up nuke IEDs and ramming with capital ships, there's almost nothing the Human fleet could do to seriously oppose the Minbari.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

Charles W Yet.........all they really needed were those nukes. Tactical nukes would have been aboard every ship. The battles never should have been so one sided with such weapons. It's a bit of a flaw in the B5 world to be honest. They were even effective against shadow and vorlon ships later on. Every race would have been using them pretty much. Plasma and beam weapons would take up a lot less space obviously but every war ship would have been loaded with nukes and missile weapons. It just makes logical sense. :)

[@charlesw5919]

Bill Kennedy Well, don't forget in the Earth Minbari War, EA ships couldn't lock onto Minbari vessels, which made missile and missile-based nuclear weapons almost useless. The only way to fire on a Minbari ship was to get into knife-fighting distance, and pretty much no EA ship could survive that under normal circumstances.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

What's this locking on talk? It's a nuke, you just get close and set it off. No direct hits needed lol. They could have built insanely powerful ones too. :)

[@charlesw5919]

Bill Kennedy Well, it's the "get close" part EA was having trouble with.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

Fighters could get close and just launch the bombs on timers. I know I know I'm getting too real lol. Still a good show. :)

[@cobblerwillorange]

I love how scared and young his seems. Bruce is a great actor. XD

[@shootybaking]

He needs a role on modern TV.

[@FireLordJohn3191]

To be fair, he just received command.

[@TheJosep70]

Haha to me he looked old. But then I'm a huge Tron fan...

[@dlxmarks]

@@shootybaking He has a recurring role on 'Supergirl' as the US President.

[@thesilvershining]

He is awesome as Sheridan, won me over pretty quickly when Season 2 started, even though I liked Sinclair.

[@andrewallison70]

I've just been watching some of the clips from Babylon 5 Recently and I got to say, even though Ive watched all 5 seasons, its just amazing how good this show really was.

[@AndrewJamesWilliams]

The Minbari moan at Sheridan for this battle for destroying the Black Star in an ambush. Yet they were doing the exact same thing to Earth Force ships only using jump points and neutron beams instead of nuclear bombs. Suppose that really shows the hipocracy of the Minbari especially the warrior caste.

[@InfernosReaper]

I wonder how many knew the truth of what was being done rather than the propaganda

[@robwalsh9843]

The Minbari warrior caste are serious assholes. Yes, they are great at what they do but they are ridiculously prideful and xenophobic. Even Klingons in Star Trek respect humans who show themselves to be tough fighters.

[@jonreese7066]

@@robwalsh9843 they werent great at it. They didnt fight anyone before they found the humans. All they had were stories of times gone by. Myths untested by a real foe

[@Rembanspellsong]

@@robwalsh9843 the warrior caste had not had a serious challenge for centuries, probably not since the last war against the shadows. They were so technologically superior that they thought no one was a threat, so they treated everyone condescendingly. They wanted to be left alone, so they other races left them alone because they didn't want to poke a potential world ending bear. So the Minbari started thinking that no one besides the Vorlons could beat them and became enamored with their own legend of superiority.

[@aiosquadron]

Same energy as how a Klingon uses cloaking device.

[@D.M.S.]

But that is how you defeat a superior enemy. As powerful the Mimbari were, their power was also their weakpoint. They thought they were invincible, but some hidden nukes knocked them out. Just like the US war game, in which a general took out a carrier fleet with a few speed boats. A powerful enemy looses the ability to think small and to improvise when you have nothing.

[@ShnNar1000x]

The example you cite was where the general was playing in the game as the Iranian navy and proved that the Iranians could beat/sink the US, despite its vastly superior power.

[@EdKelly-yu6gp]

...or an X wing takes out a Death Star?

[@KuDastardly]

@@ShnNar1000x Don't forget another example where during an international navy exercise, A Swedish submarine was able to 'sink' a US carrier. Incidentally, the Minbari were not the only ones to pay in arrogance. The Earth Alliance also fell for this as well when they believed they could handle themselves with the Minbari in a possible first contact some time after their victory over the Dilgar Empire. Londo tried to warn them but they refused to take his advice.

[@Drave_Jr.]

@@KuDastardly The problem was that to the Earth Alliance, the Mimbari were going to destroy them. Mimbari scanners jammed Earth Force scanners, and the last thing Earth Force knew, the Mimbari starships had open gunports, they couldn't see what was going on.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Not everybody, it's just the big-picture guys who often lose sight of smaller problems like say IEDs, which can damage even an MBT and make it a sitting duck or the mentioned speed-boats or even swarms of cheap drones (nobody except the Russians has AA-Gun tanks anymore in larger numbers, because those with their auto-cannons can easily engage drones)

[@PressA2Die]

"Right, time to nuke this Minbari Cruiser..." _pulls out picture of wife_ "...You're next"

[@cuquito101]

ooo shit , i cant stop laughing .. oo man u sir or madam made my day

[@STho205]

The set dressing in this scene is very good. The decal of the Minuteman surrounded by 13 stars behind the captain's station is absolutely perfect. That and "See you in Hell !"

[@timmygreystone930]

So many great B5 scenes. This was one of them.

[@Teardehawkee]

This is the reason why they call him 'Starkiller'.

[@Lightingwarrior]

Honestly to a soldier to have your enemy despise you that much and still get angry over it is considered a source of pride and achievement since it shows that you did your job right

[@DartLuke]

@OriginalTharios Starkiller was family name of Luke in early version of script. And Luke killed Death Star. Rip 500 000 honor servants of Empire. Many of them were simple workers.

[@wotmot223]

There is another sceen in B5 where Delenn arrived at B5 when earth forces were about to attack. She said something like, before you is our fleet, behind you is the only human commander to ever defeat a Minbari warship.... it would be best if you were somewhere else.

[@squirrelofdoom3830]

"This is ambassador De'len of the Mimbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw, or be destroyed" "Negative. We have authority here, do not force us to engage your ships" "Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Mimbari fleet. He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

[@ChannelReuploads9451]

Only One man has ever survived an attack by the Minbari, He is Behind me, You are not !, If you value your lives, be somewhere else. Season 3: Severed Dreams. Where Sheridan declares independence from Earth Force. The Minbari used a stealth system that Earth weapons tech could not lock on to them.

[@davidford3115]

I loved that scene. Kind of like the "This is a light house, your call".

[@danielboatright8887]

'Uh...... we left the stove on....'

[@vader1a]

I still find it annoying at how crazed the Membari get because Sheridin destroyed one ship and called it murder, considering they had killed thousands or millions of humans, women and children included. Not to mention they say it was a dishonourable by lowering them into a trap although that is what the bloody ship it's self was doing.

[@Gothic7876]

It’s a proud warrior race (well caste). Hypocrisy is the name of the game.

[@zorkmid1083]

It's a way of justifying why they should feel sore that their flagship was clobbered. Otherwise, they would have to admit they f'ed up big time.

[@David-jl1pk]

The Minbari reaction to the destruction of their ship always struck me as presumptuous. It was going to destroy a helpless vessel and they’re upset that they walked into an ambush? They should be annoyed with themselves and no one else.😎💥

[@orelanic4178]

Such a good series I have all the DVD'S 😁

[@sylarkane8883]

One of the...actually no...THE greatest show in TV history.

[@tessierashpoolmg7776]

Sylar Kane Tough call to say best ever, but it is wonderful! I wish there was more on the Psi Corps Alfred Bester side plot on KZbin or better yet restart it on a rerun basis.

[@newbatgirl]

You're right on in your assessment of this show's real meaning. And thank you for your service.

[@porpus99]

And thus "Sheridan Star Killer" earned his name.

[@davidford3115]

I thought it was "John Nuke'em Sheridan".

[@JH24821]

Delenn may have referred to the stealth technology on their Sharlins. I remember you've said (and we've seen it as well) that a Nova/Hyperion can inflict large amounts of damage to a Sharlin. But during their first encounter the Earth ships were relatively close and likely firing "blind". Later on Earth ships probably weren't able to get as close anymore as Sharlins have a huge range. They could still fire at Minbari ships, but without the ability to lock on target not as effective.

[@FrankWolenczak]

To take out a Sharlin class war crusier, you would need a minimum of THREE Omega class destroyers and to hit her fins to disable, cripple or destroy her gravimetric engines

[@JAnx01]

I watched this as a kid. The terrifying sight of that Minbari cruiser gave me nightmares for weeks.

[@LittleMacscorner]

Saw this for the first time over a decade ago. It remains my FAVORITE scene of all time along with Molari's speech. Best art I have ever seen. P.s. If you've never been in command.....you can't understand how much other peoples lives weigh on you soul. The jerks of the Army are all over the news. The rest? Quietly doing the best they can. But we are still just human beings. Doing are best. Like the rest of you.

[@otavainen222]

I do not know anything where this is from or anything, i just randomly found this, but "See you in Hell"... ICONIC

[@danielboatright8887]

Babylon 5, epic scifi show from the 90s

[@matthewcaughey5273]

Remind me to never play poker with Capt Sheridan

[@perfectsplit5515]

Sun Tzu said that warfare is based on deception.

[@QUADEeee]

Matthew Caughey The black star lost a match of poker to captain Sheridan.. they cried fowl, but they have no problem in killing tens of thousands of humans..

[@perfectsplit5515]

Rifleman, it was stupid for the Minbari to cry "fowl" at the use of Sheridan's tactics. The Minbari used stealth technology that the humans did not have. The Minbari fighters could electronically target the Earth fighters, but the reverse was not true. That wasn't "fair" either. It's war. It was stupid that anyone would condemn someone else for playing "unfair" in war.

[@QUADEeee]

I know.. That was the point of my reply.

[@Agent77X]

You mean Commander Sheridan! Captain rank is that a senior officer; not an immediate office like Sheridan is.

[@KristerAndersson-nc8zo]

They call Sheridan star killer because he manages to outwit their cruiser and destroy it, boho I suffer for them and they have no problem regarding all the humans they killed who could not even defend themselves.

[@kuribayashi84]

Yup, the Minbari are pretty hyprocritical sometimes, arent they

[@perfectsplit5515]

kuribayashi84 I think JMS did not understand the concept of war. I think JMS viewed war as a "game" where you are supposed to "play fair". I also think the Minbari disliked Sheridan because he hurt their ego. The "primitive" human was "supposed" to lose to the advanced Minbari. He was a reminder to them that they were not invincible.

[@KristerAndersson-nc8zo]

perfectsplit JMS? In war you do not play fair, you strike the enemy where they are weak and of course use deception, look at the landings on Sicily for instance.

[@perfectsplit5515]

Krister Andersson Exactly. In war you do not play fair. JMS's scripts seemed to indicate that war is supposed to be "fair". -The Minbari condemned Sheridan for "cheating" in war by using trickery with the fake distress signal. -Garibaldi condemned the Narns for "fighting dirty" against the Centauri by using booby traps in their war for independence. -Sinclair condemned the Narns for "cheating" by using a sneak attack. -Sinclair also condemned the Narns for attacking a civilian target. -Sinclair also condemned the Japanese for making a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. The fact that all these characters in Babylon 5 actually condemned the use of war tactics that were "unfair" - leads me to believe that JMS seems to think that war is supposed to be "fair". How can you condemn a war tactic because the tactic in question is "unfair"? I would say that the attitude in NCIS and the Battlestar Galactica remake - made more sense. Agent Gibbs told DiNozzo, "War's not fair! We are at war! Every time you eat, every time you sleep, every time you crap, we are at war!" And Starbuck once told her flight student, "This isn't dueling pistols at dawn; this is war. You never want to fight fair. You sneak up on your enemy and you club him from behind." They seem to contrast Sinclair's attitude when he criticizes G'Kar by saying, "Not willing to have a 'fair' fight?" in "Midnight on the Firing Line".

[@KristerAndersson-nc8zo]

perfectsplit Well if I remember correctly the Narn attacked a Agricultural colony with no defences and that is a bit different. I Think it is Amazing how G´kar evolved during the series, in season 1 and partly in season 2 he was a bastard but he evolved. But in general war is not fair though we have developed some rules. Take WW 2 the Coventry raid, the Dresden raid that was not fair.

[@alexpalmer9101]

Can't believe this movie is 20 years old. Good stuff.

[@FireLordJohn3191]

So awesome. "See you in Hell."

[@SuperHappyFunAJ]

loved Sheridan's "nuts" good old Anthony Mcauliffe....

[@paulonius42]

+AJ Garnett I doubt it's a reference to McAuliffe. He said it as a reply to an enemy. He meant it like "Up yours." Sheridan said it to himself. He meant it like "Darn, I wish you had a better idea." Totally different meanings, despite being in the context of battle.

[@SuperHappyFunAJ]

Good Point!

[@KristerAndersson-nc8zo]

+AJ Garnett Who?

[@SuperHappyFunAJ]

+Krister Andersson en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe

[@SuperHappyFunAJ]

After he explained his plan, he said 'nuts i didn't want to live forever anyway...'

[@TheBlackSpider82]

"See you in Hell!" Is always a great line.

[@larrytipton2868]

Even as a lifelong trekkie, this was one hell of a show. This was a great episode and filled the gap after star trek went downhill after Gene Roddenberry's death

[@ireneparkin3360]

Larry Tipton this is a pilot movie. Some of the people who worked on TOS worked on Babylon 5.

[@captin3149]

Irene: This isn't a pilot movie, It was made between Season 4 and 5. 'The Gathering' is the Pilot Movie. I didn't know about TOS crew working on it though, thanks for that. Larry: I'm a trekkie too, I never felt that that meant I couldn't enjoy other Sci Fi shows though. (Not saying that you do, but I'm often amazed at how many people demand that their fandom is the only one that matters.)

[@ireneparkin3360]

Cap Tin so that's why the make up looks more better.

[@Sizdothyx]

Trek got BETTER after Roddenberry's death. Take off those rose-tinted glasses. Roddenberry refused to have anything but caricatures challenge the ideals of his Federation. It wasn't until Deep Space 9, the BEST TREK OUT THERE, came around, that the maturity of the setting set in on what the universe was like. Roddenberry kept answering every query into the functionality of his Verse with the same answer on the assumption that everyone who wanted to be part of the Federation was worthy of admiration and those who wanted to hold their own ideals of advancement to be beneath them. Just watch the second season of TOS or the first season of TNG to get the point. It wasn't until Roddenberry loosened the reins that we got something cerebral.

[@Fatherofheroesandheroines]

As Delen said he is the only Earthforce commander to survive against the Minbari. That's why they respected him so much.

[@MichaelJohnson-]

"The only Earthling to ever destroy a Minbari ship, is behind me, you are infromt of me, I suggest you consider your next move carefully" ❤. DeLenn loved Sheriden.

[@LarryDickman1]

It was not a cowardly act. It was survival. They locked their weapons on the Lexington. They made it, the black star didn't.

[@WildHorseProductions]

Just coming in to see this for myself after Spacedock talked about it!!

[@vukodlak3962]

The better ending to that fable is the scorpion saying. "Silly little fox, I know how to swim."

[@rockmyworldmusic]

That is not Aesop's fable then

[@WilliamKing-hf8lc]

1:35 "Nuts" nobody had a better plan!

[@michaelmerritt7406]

Sheridan never apologized for this. Nor should he ever have to.

[@ngiaxop06]

Exactly, humans were so sure and arrogant after their victory against more advanced Dilgar, that one of their options in first contact with Minbari was a fight. That's why they sent 3 war ships.They had no way to know about Minbari traditions, but they were warned by Centauri to sent one ship only. My point is that humans should try to contact Minbari through Centauri , so they could avoid misunderstnding. But humans refused any assistance and warnings. Who's fault is this?

[@patricktalbot8980]

The minbari. There's literally no defense for running a genocidal war because one guy died. Especially when the humans repeatedly offered the captain who fired up as a sacrifice. The minbari although technologically advanced were extremely culturally backwards

[@oculosprudentium8486]

This has major principle of Sun Tzu, attack the Enemy where they are weaknesses; always use deception; where you are weak then appear to be your strongest and where you are strongest appear weak.

[@SteliosStylianou]

This clip was taken from ‘Babylon 5: The Beginning’ epic moment for Sheridan he was a tactical genius!

[@newatlantisrepublic6844]

F'ing A! When the crowd cheered I was right with them!

[@ninjabearpress2574]

Now THIS is good sci-fi.

[@tessierashpoolmg7776]

Why isn't B5 on Netflix, etc. It is a damn shame that we see the Star Trek franchise re-run everywhere until you gag and this epic saga remains in limbo. WTF!!!

[@Debbiebabe69]

Coz net flicks is a load of crap. Just go down your local second hand store and buy the real, actual, disks. Ive seen complete sets of B5 on sale MANY times.

[@ireneparkin3360]

It's on Amazon Prime (as of this comment).

[@cesareonthemidway]

JMS said some WB execs are still mad about the show and politics from the 90s.

[@InfernosReaper]

@@cesareonthemidway That's a shame, because that show helped make me into better, wiser person for having seen it. Others could benefit from its wisdom.

[@markperry2827]

@@cesareonthemidway spot.on of..not..for. TED TURNER ''''''

[@alt-animefan3231]

When you only get one kill the entire match but that one kill is the games world champion

[@Jordanationalismtion]

Another thought I had was, the Mimbari probably have extremely effective anti-missile and torpedo systems, either flak cannons or dedicated lasers. This makes the effectiveness of nuclear missiles in a straight up battle much less effective, because they can be eliminated far outside their effective range. But they used the nuke as a mine, one tiny chunk of material in a cloud of it, in the middle of an asteroid field. It was surprise and novel tactics that fucked up the Mimbari.

[@Akm72]

In reply to your 10 year old post: I suspect that they might have had sensors able to detect the mines, by the faint radiation signature at the very least, but they were looking for a damaged Earth ship at the time and didn't have any reason to suspect a trap.

[@PaulfromChicago]

I love this plan. I'm excited to be a part of it!

[@ohauss]

Being able to see something and being able to lock a weapon systems on to it are two different things. And given the speeds possible in space, you're pretty much lost without a working firing guidance system....

[@JH24821]

I understand what you mean, but when the Minbari entered Earth's home system, they were entering through dozens of hyperspace points, we could assume the Minbari had many angles covered as well. Hyperion/nova's had the firepower but still had to get closer and manually lock on target. And with the Sharlin's long range, it was almost impossible. We have to keep in mind that EA was considerably less advanced back then, it's understandable they didn't fare better.

[@danieldickson8591]

Right, the Minbari had tech that kept the Earth Alliance ships' long-range targeting systems from locking on to them. They never overcame that disadvantage during the whole war.

[@girlgarde]

I agree so the Minbari have no right to whine and complain that Sheridan tricked the Blackstar into coming into his trap. They're just mad that Sheridan shattered their aura of invincibility.

[@DothFrmBBL]

Spihk Heartbust!? Spihk Heartbust Analyze & Discuss the true reason why a Person from the Holy Bible by the name Moses did not Physically Participate in the Writing for the Bible like Mathew did!?

[@kenmazoch8499]

the only thing wrong with this scene is that in the series, it was made clear that three other minbari cruisers were with the Black Star, and all were destroyed in the trap. other than that, it was a great scene.

[@DLordSadow]

That was only mentioned once. On the B5 wiki site it's considered a continuity error. The destruction of 3 additional ships was mentioned in the first episode to feature Sheridan, it's thus likely the writers were still fleshing out his backstory at the time. Consider this 100% canon.

[@kenmazoch8499]

but it was the established story and should have been used. this sorta of thing is why I didn't like the series Enterprise even though I am a huge star trek fan. in both the original series and next generation, it was established that the first contact with the Klingons was twenty years before tos. so they lost me from the start. also, the series(b5 established that Sheridan, franklin, g'kar, and delenn had never met before Sheridan took command of b5(and I am watching season 2 again right now), but they did in "in the beginning". if there is an established story, it should be stuck to is all i'm saying.

[@kirishima638]

+ken mazoch Yeah those continuity errors were annoying and easily avoided.

[@kirishima638]

double post

[@kenmazoch8499]

agreed.

[@Membrane556]

The third space Alien ships did have shields. Vorlons also have shields of sorts even individual vorlons can make a psychokinetic force field that can block blaster fire. The Shadows can phase in and out of hyperspace which gives them something almost as good as a force field in battle and for guerrilla ambush tactics maybe even better. The Minbari and later Earth ships have a refracting hull that tries to reflect energy from a beam weapon. BTW the yield on a standard photon torpedo is 64.4 MT

[@Zamolxes77]

The only problem with this is that a nuke exploding in space is orders of magnitude weaker than on the ground. No air in space ergo no shockwave, which is the most destructive asset of a nuke. Nuke exploding in space puts out a lot of heat and radiation, heat would be very slow to dissipate since it lacks a medium to propagate through, the only danger to Blackstar would be an enormous dose of radiation. No physical impacts, no heat.

[@InfernosReaper]

force still transfers in space. If anything, you're think the air would offer up a bit of resistance. Only one way to know for sure, but it'd take a lot to raise money to put sensors in space and blow stuff up in space and on earth for a compare & contrast

[@arthurmario5996]

Yes, but all of the energy of the nuke is still released. Just in a different form. The heat from a nuke in air is mostly vis &IR, which can propagate thru air. The various radiations from the nuke would propagate freely in vacuum and actually heat the new target more if absorbed by target. The ionizing effect of the radiation would actually be a bonus! The energy that would have heated air to make an expansive blast wave would all heat and strongly ionize the target. Comments?

[@Zamolxes77]

@@InfernosReaper Better minds than mine or yours already thought of it and they did experiments. A nuke in space is basically a firecracker, that puts up immense radiation. To your point, air does offer resistance, and a helluva lot more that you think. That's what makes a nuke dangerous, on Earth. The instant displacement of so much air creates a destructive shockwave. Remember Armageddon, why they had to drill to place a nuke in the hole.

[@piotrd.4850]

@@Zamolxes77 That was one among many things that movie made suprisingly well. The best thing I love is TV picture getting jammed seconds before meteoroid impact on NYC, due to air ionization.

[@patrickmcgurk8727]

I miss this show... Would love a reboot...

[@Keonyn]

I'd settle for a rerelease with the same live-action footage but updated CGI. Sadly the outdated CGI is always the part I struggle most with when watching it. If they did revisit the franchise it would be best if they did a new fresh story in the universe instead of an actual remake.

[@ireneparkin3360]

This is up there with the Keyes Loop from the Halo franchise. After this, the Mimbari called Sheridan "Starkiller".

[@istochnikov45257]

This idea looks so similar to the interceptors installed by Gen Richard Franklin (Stephen's Father) on the Station. The S02E01 Episode gives the clue: When the renegade Nimbari Destroyer, the "Trigati" attempts to attack the station, Sheridan asks Ivanova about the scanners used by the station. The answer given by Ivanova (XB-7 standard scanners) and the later conversation during the confrontation with the "Trigati" leds to an explicit answer: The Minbari use a "stealth" device on their ships.

[@Molari]

mannnn Bruce Boxleitner is such an underrated actor...

[@OneTrueEdge]

Is this from In The Beginning?

[@Cheese_Boi1986]

yh

[@Gruliokenitawashi]

Phil Maplesden u

[@badlaamaurukehu]

This is from Ω

[@stephenfarthing3819]

This is a Kobayashi style no win situation! Very risky indeed but! The only way to survive!

[@Fr0st1989]

one thing i hated about this scene is the portrayal of the asteroid belt as a super dense field of rocks; it's not. you'd be lucky to see even one rock if you flew through the belt

[@DLordSadow]

This is an "asteroid field" in another star system. Its origins, distance from the system's sun, total mass, & disposition are very different from the asteroid belt in the Sol system.

[@KrautGoesWild]

The Lexington reminds me a little of the Wing Commander 3 and 4 Earth cruisers

[@llamallama1509]

B5 is so good at giving me chills

[@gatedude07]

It always drove me nuts that the Minbari considered him a war criminal for laying mines to defend his ship while they were perfectly willing to blow up a crippled and defenseless vessel. Hypocritical aliens...

[@Xantaxia]

"Hell, I didn't want to live forever anyway." That didn't pan out quite as expected for him in Sleeping in Light.

[@I_am_Diogenes]

If anyone watched the episode where Sheridan was given the tour of the first White Star Lenier States that the new ships have the ability to "dissipate the energy from incoming fire, which only leaves the physical energy to deal with." (based on Vorlon tech) Not sure if he was talking about shields or a property of the material of the hull. either way, energy weapons wouldn't do any damage, Torpedos, yes

[@alexandermathieson4774]

it's better he's behind you than infront of you.

[@billnyfeler]

240p, we meet again...

[@Moviemaster222]

Really reaffirms the modo of the show, atleast during the shadow war, of no retreat, no surrender

[@dudewhosaysarrh]

@kimnice Actually, it was more the range of the beam weapon since EA ships relied on pulse cannons which can be devastating but on a much shorter range and at a comparatively low rate of fire. The second advantage was that Minbari cruisers were equipped with stealth technology, so that EA weapon systems had a lot of trouble locking on to the target.

[@Nogrentain]

Hard to make a comparison with two completely different universes. The Star Trek universe clearly had humans with far more advanced technology than the humans of Babylon 5. The Sovereign class was also designed to be more maneuverable than a contemporary ship 1/4th its size. ST ships can wreck planetary levels of destruction and their shields can defend against it for plot varying amounts of time. I think TNG onwards series could take out a Sharlin.

[@dragonsword7370]

If only the humans had been forewarned by the centauri or the Narn that Minbari greet incoming ships by opening weapon ports we wouldn't have had a war. Then the easy to razzle human commander of the fleet on first contact would have been cautioned by his command staff to not shoot yet. Such a waste of life and more fodder for the shadow to feed upon!

[@DLordSadow]

Chase Paul They were actually warned not to go out looking for the Mimbari with an outright fleet. They also put a trigger happy loose cannon in charge of that fleet. It's possible that tidbit was in the info he had, but was too stupid and arrogant to read the report.

[@dragonsword7370]

DLordSadow your right. Most people don't remember the fleet commander that started everything was a glass captain.

[@Cronocke]

But why was this the only time the humans ever did anything like this? If you knew the enemy had better range than you, and your guns wouldn't shoot straight against them, wouldn't you abuse every dirty trick you could think of? Laying explosives in hard-to-see places, hiding behind asteroids, hell, even using your regular weapons to spray an area and try and hinder movement. Every fight we see is two battlelines closing the distance, and that's where the Minbari are strongest.

[@firepatriot42]

This is the way we as humans are. If I must die I'm taking you with me!

[@biggroberts01]

We are closer to harnessing antimatter than people think. Depends on how quick defence grids are, do not forget that photon torpedoes are warp capable.

[@JoshSweetvale]

If earth had anything approaching technological parity with the Minbari their species-wide temper tantrum would've very quickly with a cease-fire. Instead they found weak prey to whet their fleets against. Until Delenn found out they were butchering beings very much like themselves, and then the Minbari got queasy.

[@kuribayashi84]

+Joshua Sweetvale ikr? Even when totally outmatched, from what I've heard and seen, Earth Force gave the Minbari a lot of trouble. Londo said that they lasted Two entire years... against an enemy centuries ahead technologically. It must have been one long, bloody rearguard action with the Minbari paying for every step they took, especially the Ground Battles. Sort of like the Battles of Peleliu, Iwo Jima and Okinawa in WW2.

[@nemo99nemo83]

Well actually it wasn't the Bombs themself but the asteroidshrapnels that finished of the Drala Fi. The Bombs more or less were engines for the asteroids or lets say atleast a combination of both these aspects.

[@brandonreed09]

"Very much like themselves"? No, many of the Minbari at that point were part human thanks to Valen, which even the Minbari didn't know until after they ended the war. They ended the war thinking Minbari souls were being reincarnated in humans. A clear mistake due to Valen's existence being a temporal paradox, but at least it stopped the war.

[@Trek001]

Watched this for fifteen years and always have tried to work out how Nukes 1 and 3 damaged and destroyed it yet Nuke 2 which was MUCH closer was "out of range"

[@michaelwilkening8542]

Maybe out of range to damage them???

[@ir2841]

At some point during the war, Earth Force should have implemented the following policy: since virtually all battles ended with a defeat for the humans, every warship should have had aboard a nuke which, upon destruction of the ship, had exploded alongside and in so doing destroyed or at the very least partially damaged the Minbari ships. The price for the Minbari would have been much higher.

[@zosthegoatherd]

a nuke needs to be very near to a target in space to hurt it (1-2 km), against something you can't see (unrealistic given how hot a ship is compared to the background - but whatever) it would not be very effective. I think the idea is that the rocks blowing up creates a lot of shrapnel that creates a large kill zone negating the need to know exactly where the ship is. The stealthy ships and the density of the asteroid field are the more unrealistic bit to me.

[@montecorbit8280]

I hope everyone knows that this was a war crime.... By treaty law, playing dead sending out a distress signal, or other such things to lure the enemy in to kill them is considered a war crime....

[@alphakeshik1479]

Considering this was a war of extermination against the humans, no court would care.

[@dakariszulu]

Grid C-7......... You sank my battleship!

[@DanPhantom89]

That, and Earth is a major power. We just aren't the most powerful. If you don't count the Vorlons, we're something like number 3, behind the Minbari and Centauri.

[@epollinger1]

"Do we have any tactical nukes left?"... because that's the kind of thing a captain doesn't already know.

[@robertmiller2831]

Eric P tac nukes are pretty much mothballed at this point. The rockets they are on are to slow for space combat. They were used to destroy stationary targets. This is the equivalent of a battleship captain asking if they have any C4 explosive left in the armory.

[@iconbearer]

I didnt want to live forever anyway ...love that line :)

[@aaronryan553]

excellent clip

[@KristerAndersson-nc8zo]

True, missiles with proximity fuses armed with nukes, no need for scanners.

[@SpringIsBACK]

Kamikazes don't work because you still have to know where the ship is that you want to crash into. Salvo's of nukes don't work because space, even local space, is so "big". The Minbari Sharlins were excellent at long distance engagement, and could simply keep their distance while slicing up Earth Force. As the salvo spreads out (think "buckshot"), the Minbari ships have time and space to easily move to avoid the nukes. Otherwise, your analogy is excellent.

[@biggroberts01]

You will also find that the Borg are a superb study of violation of the body.

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

"Across his Career, Sheridan would repeatedly be asked by the Mimbari to apologize for the incident, in the interest of interstellar diplomacy. A request which he never obliged."

[@Membrane556]

The Mimbari had a type of stealth technology that gave them a huge advantage plus the ability to make accurate hyper space jumps. It basically was like trying to fight F22s using mig 21s. As for dirty tactics what the blackstar did to hunt earth ships also was a pretty dirty tactic.

[@persilbran]

2 Megatonnes as a tactical nuke, they don't mess about in the future

[@babylon218]

My point is, Earth was severely outmatched at the Battle of the Line, even without the 4-1 ratio. The Minbari had thousands of ships, all warships, while Earth had only a few hundred-to-couple thousand pure warships, probably at least 10,000 fighters, and a few thousand civilian transports turned combat vessels. That's not even taking into account the Minbari Fighter Complements. Add in the 4-1 ratio, and Earth is finished unless the outlying ships can get there (which could take days).

[@echobase1648]

Once again there is no problem too big or too small that explosives can't correct!

[@MAJMTCJ]

i am sure there is a simple reason but why did they not use more nukes in the battles would work at least some of the time because they don't have to lock which minbarri stealth didn't allow nukes close is good enough

[@_Muzolf]

This only worked because they were in a debree field. In open space the Minbari could easily shoot down any projectile with a nuclear warhead, and even if detonated, without the matter of the asteroid being thrown by the explosion, a nuke would just be some radiation that is quickly getting too weak to do anything with distance.

[@dreamcore]

you've touched upon an essential flaw of space battles between alien races, nukes would see a lot more use here's another trope, the asteroid or debris field - which in reality would still be almost entirely empty space. (this is a good thing as rocks of all sizes don't bounce off of ships without consequence.) If such debris were idly floating around so close to one another, they'd be coalescing into larger masses and again providing plenty of space for maneuverability.

[@Nogrentain]

They provided the user interface too! Earth still owns the victorys. The warlock is either at, or almost at Minbari levels supposedly. When you're also allied with the number one power, that puts you on top.

[@gadeshtmounigama8479]

I think this scene is in the episode when Sheridan comes on to command B5 in that part 1 or part 2 of the season opening. The mimbari are freaking out and accusing him, if there is and on on this station it's Sheridan Starkiller. Beyond that. This series had almost no children in it and the drama aspect had such insight in human emotions, bigotry, and vices. The series with Night watch is so like the political environment of the last few years. Politicians more concerned with personal gain, fame and graft, than the people they are supposed to represent. Just thrown another trillian on the fire.

[@biggroberts01]

You forget that the prime directive forbids interference in other cultures and 1st contact with pre-warp cultures. Star Trek is far darker than you think.

[@studinthemaking]

When are 2 megatons nukes a tactical size?

[@joealexander9548]

LOL. When you're in space and don't have to worry about blast waves, I guess.

[@VERTHASAMVS]

When you have 1000m ships, 2 megatons suddenly becomes tactical.

[@sparrowlt]

In Space nukes and other explosive warheads became much much less effective than in an atmosphere.. nukes and warheads work by creating a pressure wave and heat.. in space there is no air to transmite that pressure wave so the blast is much limited.. neither there is something to properly transmit the heat save by radiation form.. Unless a direct hit the nuke would have much less effect than on a normal atmosphere. They are however much much more effective as EM weapons than on earth

[@DorianMichaelsIII]

When the strategic-sized nukes are *500* megatons?

[@mikecimerian6913]

Two gigatons. The original concept for Earth Force destroyers included twin gigaton launchers fore, same as `for Narn energy mines launchers. Also missile bays and rotating section fighter bays. CGI couldn't handle as many polypoints as required for this detail level at the time. This is pioneering work as B5 was the first show to use only CGI for space scenes. The episode Zha'dum features such nukes contributed by Narns.

[@zero312]

And thus John 'The Nukenator' Sheridan was born

[@Alamandorious]

Dirty tactics only work as long as the enemy doesn't expect you to do them. You can expect that after one such nuking, that the Minbari were a bit more cautious when fighting in asteroid belts and such.