Eastern Orthodoxy w/Erick Ybarra

[@jennifernorton905]

I appreciate your video! I have Orthodox friends on social media, and I have a hard time understanding their arguments against Catholicism. Catholic/ Orthodox apologetics are so over my head. I feel like I need degrees in theology and history just to be able to follow the conversation.

[@brianfarley926]

They can get a bit stuck in the weeds. There (Orthodox) positions tend to be very rigid with lacking in distinction.

[@EricAlHarb]

Not really, there are meaningful distinctions

[@SLVBULL]

There was no papacy in the first 1000 years of church history. What more do you need to know.

[@palermotrapani9067]

What you are seeing from the Orthodox are not for the overwhelming number of cases, former Protestants who say 5 to 10 years ago, rejected things such as Apostolic succession, 7 Sacraments, with Holy Orders and Bishops, etc, Tradition, communion of Saints and asking those saints to pray for us, veneration of Mary, calling her Theotokos, the Councils of the Early Church, a view of justification that is nothing like the Protestant view(s) who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. So what they use to argue about with Catholics they now embrace, save 1 Big Thing, Primacy of the Church and Bishop of Rome (The Pope). You can pretty much ball it down to that. They can now in the Eastern Orthodox Church be part of the great Apostolic Tradition, they are, they now can partake of a valid Eucharist, they can, they have all the 7 Sacraments, they do, they now have ties to Churches that were part of the first 4 Great Ecumenical Councils. Most places where Protestants are from where not even part of Western Christendom yet still in the 5th century. They can still have their objections to The Pope.

[@EricAlHarb]

@@palermotrapani9067 explain what you mean further. No we don’t merely disagree on the papacy. We need to have many other discussions. UnMarried clergy, divorce, contraception, the filioque, the role of the bishop of Rome, unleavened Eucharist, not partaking of the blood. Changing your liturgies communing with Nestorians and miaphysites.

[@Subeffulgent]

Excellent video perfect timing as well I'm actually going to and a Greek Orthodox church for vespers because I'm confused on which direction to go I am a new convert to Catholicism I've been a Catholic for about so I really appreciate this talk may God bless you and your families keep up the good work

[@AbuSefein89]

Don’t allow the beauty of orthodoxy fool you into denying the papacy and apostacizing as I did. As Catholics we are allowed to attend Orthodox services but not take part in their sacraments. I would attend vespers maybe liturgy at most and go to a Latin mass parish if you can on Sundays rather than to liturgy. Their spirituality, if you follow it to the letter, is not very Christian and it is misguided very 1 dimensional. Hard to follow if you are a human being lol God bless you on your journey

[@countryboyred]

@@AbuSefein89the Orthodox have kept the faith way better than Roman Catholics have. Just a fact.

[@Floridiansince94]

Fellow Miamian ;) I moved to north Florida last year ; couldn’t handle the craziness down there anymore !

[@ZZZELCH]

Generally good conversation as usual. Hopefully we can all begin reaching out to one another in good faith. I disagree with your points, but I’ll definitely be getting your book to study further. -An Orthodox brother in Christ.

[@KeithNester]

God bless you brother. Thanks for watching.

[@ChristianCatholicMedia]

Great video. God Bless.

[@KeithNester]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@TonyEspana182]

Keith please bring on an Eastern Catholic Priest!

[@ProjectMysticApostolate]

I love you both. Thanks for this episode man. 🙏❤️

[@robertotapia8086]

@Keith Nester thanks for having Erick on been following him and @William Albrecht from @patristicpillars for a while and @Michael Lofton I love seeing and hearing Catholic brothers just interacting with each other especially those who have some popularity it's not about competing against each other its uniting for GOD. I'm excited to hear @gabyafterhours and you have something coming up soon thanks for all your doing for the Kingdom of GOD. Thanks and GOD Bless your family and you. Robert from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷

[@Angel-Max7728]

I enjoy the interview so much awesome information ❤

[@Mrs.Valenice]

This is great!! What I needed. Messianic ➡️Catholic happening here... so much to take in.

[@charlie_the_catholic]

This was a good interview

[@KeithNester]

Thanks so much!

[@danemgull4451]

God bless both of you 🙏🙏

[@georgecoyoy951]

nice discussion, Erick's work is much appreciated. on the subject of inter-communion and the rules as they are currently, an interesting situation you find on the ground is that it happens frequently in both directions. speak to Eastern Catholic priests whose congregation is mostly made up of Eastern peoples and you find that they regularly give communion to Orthodox people and that their own parishioners regularly receive at local Orthodox churches. I've met a number of priests who speak about this openly and without hesitation; my guess is that among cradle Orthodox and Eastern Catholics, the close familial ties through inter-marrying make this less of a scandal than it would be among western converts to Orthodoxy or Roman Rite Catholics who switch to an Eastern rite. It is interesting to contrast that experience with what I've seen from the more polemical Orthodox, who from what I have seen tend to be western converts.

[@countryboyred]

You should see the inter-communion that goes on in the Middle East.

[@Sheilamarie2]

As a Roman Catholic, I think we are blessed to have St Peter's Chair. I've heard Orthodox Churches are little (by ethnicity) empires all on their own. I pray we all become united again under St Peter's chair.

[@EricAlHarb]

No there is politics, but there is only 1 church. I think it’s a straw man to think of orthodoxy as fiefdoms

[@rinkevichjm]

@@EricAlHarb it’s not politics when you can’t meet because you have 2 pairs of churches in schism which each other. It division not of the Holy Spirit.

[@SLVBULL]

St Peter's chair has no relevance. Rome has fallen into heresy unfortunately. It is what it is. Let's see how catholicism will progress with the woke gender. Woman priests?

[@Charity-vm4bt]

​@@EricAlHarbAgree.

[@abierliovas7827]

Thank you Keith would you please talk about marriages from catholic and orthodox

[@christinaeilers3562]

Erick, you could've used your book as your thesis for a PhD!!

[@FernandoP-p1s]

So much can be said here. Erick mentioned the importance of looking at the 7 Ecumenical Councils. The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed arose from the first two Councils through which the Church proclaimed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. The West accepted this truth but later modified it with the Filioque originating in Spain to confront Arian heresy. If the RC Church accepted the Creed for a thousand years and then changed it, causing an affront to the Monarchy of the Father and making the Holy Spirit the only Person of the Trinity from which the Holy Spirit does not proceed, we have a major theological problem regarding the nature of the Trinity. A sincere seeker would do well to read the Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit by St. Photios to understand the heretical danger of the Filioque. Erick also mentioned the importance of Scripture. Jesus said that He would pray for the Father to send down the Holy Spirit, which reflects the original Creed of the Church, still kept by the Holy Orthodox Church. Regarding the Papacy the sincere seeker should look up the words “rock” and “stone” in Scripture, and you will see that both in the Old and New Testaments, it always refers to Christ. Even the Holy Apostle Peter in his general epistle clearly refers to Christ as the chief cornerstone. It was his public affirmation that Christ is the Son of God that serves as the bedrock of our faith and the Church. History records the scandals in selection of pontiffs by aristocratic power, nepotism and politics, imposters, even murder. My heart aches for western believers, and I pray they will search earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints which must be guarded from any changes or innovations. I hope this is helpful.

[@uldisarbidans694]

I don’t understand, if the Ecumenical Council accepted a creed without a filioque, and the Pope agreed, then why can we now say that the orthodox are wrong and the creed should be with a filioque? Dont we have all three in here, scriptures, tradition and consensus of the fathers for the creed without filioque? Thanks

[@rinkevichjm]

Actually per Dionysius Exiguus the Filioque was in the Latin creed of Constantinople in 381 and that was before 540.

[@rinkevichjm]

And the Filioque is in scripture at Rev 22:1. And the Filioque basis was taught by Leo the great who taught the HS proceeds from both in 447 before the council of Chalcedon which made the Constantinople creed ecumenical. And the Ancoratus teaches the Filioque and the Constantinople creed was taken from the Ancoratus

[@garyhogan7881]

This was timely for me. I’m a Protestant considering converting. There is an Orthodox Church in my community I was considering. Their website says they have apostolic succession from the Mexican National Catholic Church as well as the Greek Orthodox Church. Not sure how that works. But Eric’s comments on Orthodox churches gives me pause. One of the main things about Protestantism that I have come to dislike is the lack of authority.

[@dxvii937]

Which church?

[@R.C.425]

Thank you

[@AbuSefein89]

Former Antiochian Orthodox, I was previously living in a very very traditional orthodox community in Arizona, as traditional and orthodox as it gets. In short, lots of mental health problems, neurotic theology, neurotic way of life, spiritually abusive, they sound Protestant by how much they hate Roman Catholicism. Glad to say I am back in Roman Catholicism at a Latin mass church in communion with the Pope. Glory to God

[@countryboyred]

And eventually your Pope will take away your Latin mass that you hold so dear. You are still a Protestant and don’t realize it.

[@countryboyred]

And the Pope will eventually take away the Latin mass that you hold so dear. You are still a Protestant and don’t realize it

[@MrAwak3]

Wouldn’t you say there’s already been efforts made to loosen Papal “control” by allowing Eastern Catholics and Anglican Ordinates to retain their liturgical identities? With the recent Bishop of Rome document, there doesn’t seem like there’s much to object to anymore in the East. Both sides have dug in so long it’s almost like no one knows how to initiate a reconciliation.

[@achilles4242]

The reason I have great hope for reunion is because Catholic and Orthodox clergy both understand what they believe and for the first time in a long time it seems like there is a general reproachment and genuine attempt to understand the other side, not just articulate their own respective sides. Catholic codes of canon law 1917 and 1983 both, when referring to jurisdiction, make several qualifiers, namely: ordinary, immediate, and proper. Ordinary and immediate are with respect to the nature of the jurisdiction, and proper is with respect to how it is exercised. A lot of online polemicists don't quite understand these distinctions, especially with respect to Vatican I and what is says regarding Papal prerogatives. You have hyper-papalists on one side and "only a primacy of honor" with a watered-down sense of what honor actually meant for the Church at its foundation on the other. Realistically, the powers of the pope are nuanced and not at all one where the Pope has the power to interfere in the day-to-day jurisdiction of other dioceses (because it wouldn't be proper to his primacy; rather, the exercise of jurisdiction within his own diocese is proper only to the bishop of that diocese). I could say more, apologies for all of this writing, but I think it is in this qualified sense of the nature and character of Papal power that we can find healing. A lot of noise was made over the recent Alexandria document but really, I think that is the key. The West over-developed a reliance on primacy at the expense of the locality of the Church and the local bishop as the locus of the Church for their respective parishioners, and the East under-developed their idea of primacy at the expense of the universal Church and to the benefit of the local churches. Anyway, what do you think?

[@TraditionalGoggles]

Wondering if Keith would consider having an Ortho on, and not just someone talking about the Orthos from an outside perspective.

[@KeithNester]

Absolutely! I’d love to at some point

[@TraditionalGoggles]

@@KeithNester Fr. Michael from the channel “Living Orthodox” might be a good person to have a discussion with! Or possibly Dr. David Bradshaw!

[@permanenceaesthetic6545]

@@KeithNester Seraphim Hamilton is also an excellent resource!

[@revelation20232]

Roman Catholic here but on the fence. I just can't reconcile how drastically different the Church is pre & post Vat II. My issue is stuff such as ecumenicism, the lack of reverence for Christ by the allowance of things like Pride masses while traditional bishops getting ex-communicated etc. On one hand we're saying all must submit to Rome yet the Eastern Catholics don't have to accept certain things to be in communion. We're saying there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church yet somehow there is for people who reject Christ. We're saying EO's are schismatics and heretics yet their sacraments are valid & we're allowed to take communion with them. We claim the pope is infallible yet popes are contradicting each other. You cannot say the Church of JPII, Benedict, or Pope Francis is the same Church as Pope St. Pius X for example. The Church just seems bi-polar today.

[@silveriorebelo2920]

in the times of the fight against Arianism in the fourth century, the Church remained united even though many bishops were denying the divinity of Christ - there are times when things are in the flow, and the ecclesial unity must accept many ambiguities - while we are all called to fight for truth seeking to clarify them

[@countryboyred]

The reason you are feeling such cognitive dissonance is because the Church of Rome is in error. Become Orthodox.

[@strugglingathome]

15:43 "catechumenical instruction" is a new one by me! sounds intense!

[@abierliovas7827]

Hi Keith Hi Erick ,so as a regular person how believe in catholic can I say that both churches are right ?

[@EricAlHarb]

No you may not.

[@lionheart5078]

the Catholic church considers the Orthodox church “schismatic” but not heretical. So the Orthodox church is right when it comes to matters of faith and belief about almost everything. However, they are essentially rebellious and not in communion. It’s like a sibling who is at odds with the family. Both are right in a way, but one, namely the Catholic church, is the base and all other churches must agree with it.

[@brianfarley926]

No because both can’t be correct

[@EricAlHarb]

@@brianfarley926 Agreed the Orthodox and Catholic faith cannot both be right. The Papacy is a Huge difference.

[@EricAlHarb]

@@chriscoke2505 so are Protestants . Doesn’t mean they’re right.

[@philoalethia]

Entering the Church of Rome is not an intrinsically-bad or evil choice. It has been and continues to be an instrument of salvation for many. However, it is not the only such instrument, and it isn't the "right" one for everyone. Indeed, entering Rome could lead to damnation for some, just as could entering any church if it leads to a culpable rejection of God. There is something good about stories such as "here is why I entered THIS church," or "here is how THIS church has helped me--maybe it will help you too." However, there is danger in stories that present any church as the sole correct one. Even the Roman Church clearly states that such positions are in error--that there are other "True" churches besides itself.

[@silveriorebelo2920]

you are confused - the recognition of true churches does not mean that there are no errors/heresies in them, the implication being that the grace of communion with Christ is NOT identical, - the bottom liner is that there is only one Church established by the Lord, and that full communion with the Lord depends on belonging to it

[@philoalethia]

@@silveriorebelo2920, well, yes, I guess I am confused. Are you saying that one can be the "true church" and yet officially believe and teach heresies? "... there is only one Church established by the Lord...." Okay. Which one is it and how can you know?

[@countryboyred]

@@silveriorebelo2920your argument works if we were living in the 1700s. Rome has given so much ground to the Orthodox. They have valid sacraments. Multiple Popes have said not to proselytize them. To say they aren’t part of the Church is absurd.

[@Mr.Peck88]

Loved this discussion so much, I’ve watched it in it’s entirely three times already. I have a question that I’m hoping somebody can answer. I believe the Patriarch of Constantinople is the successor of St. Andrew the apostle. And obviously Pope Francis is the successor of St. Peter. Does St. John have a current successor too? Or if we don’t know who that is, why not?

[@EricAlHarb]

And this is the issue we Orthodox have. What makes Rome the only successor of St Pater? It is by tradition that Rome is the first amongst equals. IT IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE THAT PETERS AUTHORITY RESIDES IN ROME. That’s a tradition and sure we would welcome Rome back to orthodoxy and see the patriarch take his role of first amongst equals and servant of servants. BUT NOT AS SUPREME BISHOP.

[@mojmoj5923]

Odlična tema ,bravo

[@silveriorebelo2920]

I can't understand why Ybarra keeps stating that the filioque was attested in the West and not in the East when, in fact, we also find a large attesattion in the East of that doctrine, at least durin g the fourth and the fifth centiries ... it seems he has not been very thorough in his study

[@FAMA-18]

St Ignatius when he said, where Peter is, there’s the Church. In other words the full deposit of the faith the God given authority, that right there should end the argument of the eastern orthodox church.

[@SLVBULL]

Protestant misinterpreted scripture since the mess catholicism has created. This is nothing different to the pope argument. Look at the state of the Catholic church today, the apostles wouldn't even recognize it today.

[@bobomax164]

Where can I find this quote

[@FAMA-18]

@@bobomax164 The written letters of Saint Ignatius, it was St. Ignatius epistle to the Smyrnaeans.

[@countryboyred]

Every bishop is Peter. Christ gives the power to bind and loose to all the apostles in Matthew 18. To say that only the Pope represents Peter is heterodox. Peter founded three apostolic Sees. Antioch, Alexandria, and Rome.

[@FAMA-18]

@@countryboyred But where the pope is, there’s the magisterium of God, the Holy See. It is through Peter that the authority was given too, and the rest of the apostles that comes through Peter ordination.

[@rinkevichjm]

Nothing on Photius and the Filioque? Like admission that Photius never apologized and remained excommunicated (this is why the popes never accepted the 879 council as Photius never did what was required to be restored (apologize about usurping the patriarchy and make amends). Yes the pope, offered it but Photius never did what the pope required

[@Aarongorn]

53:22 The Code is more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules... 🏴‍☠

[@rinkevichjm]

Right now there are at least 2 schisms ongoing in Orthodoxy.

[@SLVBULL]

And the Catholic church has been infiltrated by evil. What's your point?

[@rinkevichjm]

@@ocravomaltemperado Jerusalem and Antioch and also Russia and Pharos

[@countryboyred]

Schisms have been going on since the beginning of the Church and Rome is dealing with her own.

[@cassidyanderson3722]

This is a bad time for a Catholic (especially one like Eric, who I really respect), to be so wrong about Orthodoxy. He gave no examples of the doctrinal disputes/inconsistencies of the East; he said that the Russians can’t partake of the Eucharist in Constantinople, Alexandria, etc. - that is unequivocally not true. Moscow and Constantinople are in a jurisdictional dispute, not doctrinal. They call all partake of the Eucharist in the Churches of the other. After the past week or so, there are tens of millions of Catholics considering converting to Orthodoxy. They come to pages like this to learn more about why they shouldn’t. And, you (I assume unintentionally) misrepresent the East and actually lay out a pretty good case for converting. Eric, you’re better than this.

[@ChrisEAdlay]

So do orthodox allow contraception and divorce?

[@EricAlHarb]

No it’s an oeconomia.

[@ChrisEAdlay]

@@EricAlHarb what does that mean

[@EricAlHarb]

@@ChrisEAdlay we allow it because we aren’t robots. We maintain orthodoxy (the standard) but allow for human failings.

[@ChrisEAdlay]

@@EricAlHarb so is it permissible or is it a sin is what I'm asking

[@marcib6767]

@@ChrisEAdlayyes, contraception and divorce are allowed in orthodoxy based on what many orthodox priests say.

[@rinkevichjm]

If they do the Latin drags out numerous numbers of their Fathers that actually teach the HS proceed from both and not the Father alone.

[@LizCanKnit]

This was interesting but I’m not fully convinced either way. The Papacy has seen some pretty creepy dudes installed. Whereas this gentleman wrestled with correct views on the papacy and the Filioque, I’m over here just trying to find the “whosoever will” church that isn’t infected by double predestination and TULIP. Where is that church?

[@LizCanKnit]

@@emprisedll5472 It’s amazing how much differently I feel after 2 months. I’m seriously looking at Catholicism now.

[@miarymr8337]

@@LizCanKnit I'm a fellow not-really-protestant who's looking into Catholicism too. Did you come to a conclusion?

[@countryboyred]

@@miarymr8337Orthodoxy is much closer to the faith of the first 1000 years of Christianity.

[@ThruTheUnknown]

Who caused the east-west schism?

[@SLVBULL]

Rome

[@EricAlHarb]

@@SLVBULL yes technically Rome anathematized Constantinople

[@palermotrapani9067]

@@SLVBULL Well 1 can point out, accurately, that in 1053, the Byzantine Priest from the Constantinople, Leo of Ohrid, traveled to Southern Italy where he met with Papal Representatives and he criticized the Roman Church's use of unleavened bread in the Eucharist. That was in 1053. That resulted in Cardinal Humbert going to Constantinople to address Patriarch Cerularius where of course Humbert excommunicates Cerularius (I am not sure he had the authority to do so), he was not the Pope and in turn Cerularius excommunicates Humbert. But the attacks on Roman-Latin Liturgical practices by Patriarch Cerularius and Leo of Ohrid were causing problems in Southern Italy as there were Greek-Rite parishes there those attacks on Roman-Latin Liturgical Traditions were threat to unity in Italy.

[@countryboyred]

@@palermotrapani9067cope. Rome was clearly the primary cause of the schism.

[@johnf6267]

He doesn't sound convinced either way.

[@KeithNester]

He’s is convinced, just very humble.

[@Erick_Ybarra]

@@KeithNester yes, Keith has it right here.

[@countryboyred]

@@Erick_Ybarrayou literally responded to the post with “yes I am very humble” 😂

[@joeseph6981]

Beastern

[@EricAlHarb]

And this is the issue we Orthodox have. What makes Rome the only successor of St Pater? It is by tradition that Rome is the first amongst equals. IT IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE THAT ST. PETERS AUTHORITY RESIDES IN ROME. That’s a tradition and sure we would welcome Rome back to orthodoxy and see the patriarch take his role of first amongst equals and servant of servants. That is his role by tradition. He cannot claim some role that is not his to claim. BUT NOT AS SUPREME BISHOP😮😮

[@FAMA-18]

Not everything is written in scripture. Peter spent the last 25 years of his life in Rome before he was martyr there’s tons of evidence of Peter in frescos on the walls of Rome with Paul as well. Evidence of the church fathers claiming Peter existent in Rome so not everything was written in scripture. And yes, where Peter is, there’s the Church..St Ignatius. Where the full faith was deposited by Gods giving Authority the Church of Christ and his magisterium.

[@EricAlHarb]

@@FAMA-18 except that is the claim of Rome. That the papacy is in scripture. I wouldn’t claim everything is in scripture We are in communion with the Orthodox popes of the 1st millennium.

[@rinkevichjm]

The energies essences is a division of God into two.

[@rinkevichjm]

It can only be reconciled by a scholastic interpretation of silent prayer.

[@johncollorafi257]

Taken literally the real distinction does seem to imply a two part God, actually worse.

[@xaviermagana4807]

😂77777p

[@TisDoulos]

Not a wise discussion with the God factor absolutely absent! God has totally been thrown out! Example: comparing if the one head is better than multiple heads... where is the God factor in that? Is it upon us (one or multiple heads) to guarantee the Truth? One or multiple heads God has no difficulties. One or multiple heads, is a thing, I am not saying is irrelevant, in the way however you make it relevant you throw the role of the Holy Spirit out All in all, to me often sounds like two western minds talking.