Echomancy Is REAL! Wuthering Waves Code PROOVES IT!

[@zippo718]

They said they did every 10s-15s just to organize the data, not for any other reason. The theory right now is any time duing that minute.

[@CashySwanson]

Nice info, I appreciate it! makes sense for sure, I think the srand() function only takes the minute into account anyway from a code perspective

[@BigBoiPnoy]

I only go by every 15 seconds cause I'm breathing between upgrades

[@EmilVelidjanov-es5lm]

This is assuming a lot. Since wuwa is a UE4 game there are more than one ways to generate random numbers. UE4 also has RandomStreams that output random values with any arbitrary seed. And considering Kuro heavily modified UE4 for their needs it's not out of the question that they have implemented their own custom random number generator. I would be careful with this until we have more data (300+ attempts) for each minute mark. With the current data the only careful assumption I would make is that there is a higher chance (about 12%) to roll a crit stat than any of the others (about 6%).

[@Morkibay]

100%, i was confused after he said "it is the only way in c++". It is ONE way to do pseudo random numbers, but not the only way

[@begginerm9339]

spit that

[@pikachichu__]

I wouldn‘t even assume this because whatever data is provided, if it is within subsequent substat rolls, the chances for each substat roll change, but they all get put into the sheet equally

[@sharksarecool6717]

Love you dude, but this is just flat out wrong. Every programmer and their mom know this is not the only random function - maybe the most unreliable one of them, sure. In fact, game developers avoid this and opt for other ways. Even assuming this is true, that some intern working at Kuro did this out of bad habit, it is incredibly easy to patch within the first hour of the original video's release, as the tuning algorithm is on their side, not locally on your phone/computer application.

[@CashySwanson]

for sure they can fix it, if it even exists. i still kinda dont want it to exist cause its total BS if it does but... its been working REALLY well for me lately so idk. I am just covering the information on and around it because why not. it doesnt hurt to try it either so its not a particular big deal for anyone who DOES want to try it.

[@ゴールぐ]

If srandom() as far as random() being unreliable is the case, what are the more reliable random functions you've seen?--And in what ways would you say it's unreliable to the point of being flat-out? Not denying it if it is poor programming habits that it's very changeable, but at the same time, one has to think how they code things to match the rates they've set for themselves. I can check code documentation, but I can't begin to conceptualize how they'd go about matching seeds and time or whatever else to the 0.8% and 6% with any pseudo-random thing--I'm not sure what yardstick easy uses here--layman, student, or senior gacha programmer (if that exists).

[@rrchy.]

@@CashySwanson seems super random, i have a friend who has it working for them almost every time, but for me its damn near opposite to the charts for rolls.

[@AltruisticShine]

@@CashySwanson The biggest thing is that "it doesn't hurt to try" because you're going to roll either way. However, I think the results are simply the placebo effect. If you get the result in that timeframe, it feels great. If you DON'T get that matching result, then we blame it on "well the spreadsheet splits it between crit damage/rate at these percentages, so it was never guaranteed anyway". But knowing that fact that it doesn't always work, and definitely not consistently enough as it is, that we can toss the results in the bin for any surefire way of achieving optimal results. I can tell you from my experience, after 20 different echoes that I have personally submitted, only 4 got any crit stat (crit rate or crit damage), and of those 4, only ONE got both crit rate and crit damage. 1 of 20 to make an attempt at double crit stats is nowhere near valid enough for a player to go out of their way in order to timestamp their roll - but again, it doesn't hurt just because we're rolling those echoes regardless.

[@horg7203]

Cool video! First one actually trying to approach this empirically. That said, this does not work for me ! Hahaha

[@CashySwanson]

HEY! Thanks for watching bro! i love your calcharo you are the fuckin GOAT!

[@jcruz2255]

Just want to add that the spreadsheet is ALWAYS being updated so times to echomance will change. I just tuned at "0" minute mark and got a great crit stat on the 3 cost echo I tuned.

[@anigame8916]

how about server and local time?

[@ゴールぐ]

Interesting. But now I have questions for whoever might know the answer: How did people figure out Wuthering Waves is coded with C++ and to what extent does it use the language? (How do we avoid saying that it's just Unreal Engine needing C++ but WuWa is coded entirely on something else?) Should the average person be separating that from Unreal Engine, and how do we know WuWa is using srand and not a Lehmer Random Number implementation or similar with changing seeds? The problem with 4:09 "not as far as [an observing coder] knows" is from a coder-gamer perspective, srand is kind of the equivalent of using something on public Facebook as the answer to the secret account recovery question. I imagine there ought to be some code obfuscation in play here. But then again, it's not like there's asterite directly involved with substats--unless the rumoured rerolls have something to say about that. Can we reasonably expect Kuro to not be doing this? (Otherwise, Echomancy might be a gateway into Convene-mancy and oh boy) I'd watch how people Sherlock it in depth like that

[@lunaristicdog2554]

Wuthering Waves is made with Unreal Engine 4, and it's made by Epic Games. Primarily it uses C++, but this is all I can really say for sure because I'm not a programmer. Ideally I'd like to apply mathematics to programming, but there's some lines of code that would confuse me lmao, there are normal equations/formulas like y = mx + b, or x = 5 + 23 or something. The computer isn't a human mind and technically we have to code something in to tell it what to do, and I don't understand functions/codes saying "x = x + 1". All I really know also is that time is constantly changing and it can be applied to RNG. I have a hunch that it might also take your account creation as a factor, but I don't really know anything truly in the end xd. (Server ping might also be a factor but I can't really say anything in the end, take it with a grain of salt)

[@ゴールぐ]

@@lunaristicdog2554 If I'm parsing this correctly, Epic Games can mean the CEO Tim Sweeney, but the presumption here is Sweeney works with the rest of Epic on Unreal which checks out. Unreal itself says it's written in C++ but my main confusion is there in the parentheses; 'mathematically' speaking: First, we establish the statement 3 + 2 = 5. Algebraically, it follows the pattern a + b = c. This isn't necessarily programming, but to rephrase the very first question I want to know if: ("srandom C++ Code") + ("Unreal Engine C++") + etc... = "Wuthering Waves" since the video seems to frame it that way--but I feel it could also be: ("Unreal Engine C++") + ("Any other non C++ randomizer implementation") + etc... = "Wuthering Waves". My understanding of srand() is it's the seed. rand() is the actual randomizing function in C++. In "human code" srand() = "Set random seed" and rand() = "Randomize from seed"; to simplify out how the seed is stored in cstdlib. It isn't clear to me if what I'm seeing in the video is actually the Wuthering Waves Source Code. It looks more like a general definition--otherwise I'd expect to see some more gibberish, or if unobfuscated something along the line of srand("UserID/ClockTime" "seed"); ...in fact, I don't think Kurogames is at all involved with a learning site like simplilearn. TL;DR I'm not sure where the basis for Wuwa's substat randomizing being C++ is coming from--it's kind of postulated; there isn't a showing of the investigative process deriving this--and I'm hungry for the sauce, boss mans

[@CashySwanson]

it is the general function it would use in C++. From some coding friends, as well as the "genius society" for the game, in C++ this is the only way without external code language implementations to create a randomized number generator. obv without confirmation of game code it is still all speculation but we can assume since C++ is the only real language useable in Unreal Engine WITHOUT massive essentially "homebrew" of the software that this is it.

[@unholyarthur1]

Oh no, not another relic sub stat manipulation video.

[@mikelshuo9071]

No serious developer uses srand. Industry standard is to use external libraries or their own solution like Cloudflare using lava lamps.

[@Sail17]

I suspect this doesnt work or they just patched it yesterday. It worked for me day before yesterday but i got 0 crits in 12+ stat rolls according to the spreadsheet saying there is 30% odds in minute 7. Unfortunately I think they patched it. Sad. It was fun

[@danko5656]

No, literally just rng

[@diederichgarz6317]

they might just add an offset that is localised

[@juancholo6608]

Does it matter if you do it at xx:07 or like xx:17 min? is it always the 7th min of whatever ten for this example?

[@shino.nosmokes]

it doesn't matter. as what I understood every 7th minute of whatever tenth place minute

[@CashySwanson]

yep

[@joshsholder6636]

Bro is out here blatantly spreading misinformation

[@TheJacksonFaller]

I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I rolled 5 echoes with 2 stats each and got 0 CR/CD. Also what makes you think that even if this does work now Kuro wouldn't patch it? There's definitely a way to make numbers more random then this (assuming this is even true)

[@kenjiseijr]

Source : Trust me bro im an engineer :D

[@CashySwanson]

how'd you know👀

[@nismook]

don't bother, trust me. You think the devs knowing how the real RNG pattern works will not do a weekly or monthly rotation to throw everything off????????????

[@Issa_Oth]

That's definitely what they're doing for the gacha system. But for echo substat tho? Not sure.

[@CashySwanson]

thats a really interesting thought ngl, them changing the seeding after ___ amount of days or something to start destroying all the data collected LOL! if it exists and that is their response to it that would be super funny

[@Issa_Oth]

Let them do it. We don't know, maybe by doing it they somehow found something like pity system like the echo drop.

[@kiraishagaming]

So I need to upgrade to lv20 echo first? At 7min, 0s then tune it, then tune again in the next 15s and continue?

[@CashySwanson]

the seconds dont matter as much tbh. especially with server ping its hard to properly time. Let it hit __:_7 mark and give it a sec or 2 and then roll, you can do it one at a time, all at once, level 5 or level 20 it doesnt really matter how

[@BigBoiPnoy]

to save mats just do the whole 2 tune rule. I still go by it if i dont have alot of materials

[@WhiteCrow.99]

So how much time should i take between rolls

[@CashySwanson]

@@WhiteCrow.99 doesn't really matter, tbh I just increase my rolls to roll like 4 at a time and click it any time within the 7 minute mark, the seconds don't matter as much, the 15 second thing was mostly for organizational stuff

[@WhiteCrow.99]

@@CashySwanson thanks professor echo heisenberg🎩

[@gabrielpepeta6]

Dude, why are you pissed? This is fucking far from good compared to genshin's system. I droped that shit game 'cause I spent 3 months to get one artifact that works, it was completely frustating. I love the fact that Genius S. is colecting data and it still not 100% accurate, I can have better char in the same time not spoil the game.