ECM Classika PID: Espresso Brewing, Milk Steaming & Flow Control

[@threedollarbridge]

Thanks so much for this and the previous video. I just bought this machine from you and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival. Not only was this detailed and paced for a rookie, it covers some of the new accessories and features that had not been covered in other videos. It's another reason I love WLL

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks for the comment! Hope you're loving your new machine.

[@AC-wl7ve]

how are you liking the machine?

[@litespeed65]

Just sent back my newly ordered Appartamento-never even had water in it. The Classika PID makes sense to me with lot's of control options plus it can steam milk.

[@taroman7100]

You made a wise decision. I have owned two Appartamentos and never again!

[@jakevan1969]

Very helpful. Beautiful machine and grinder. Thanks.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You bet!

[@Michelsen3K]

Super helpful. Thanks for the video!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You’re welcome and thanks for the comment!

[@back_to_the_bike8820]

Thank you. Does this machine require cooling flashes like the Hx?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey bttb, That depends on the use case/pattern. Most HX machines have a sweet point from turn on when no flush is needed. If left on and idle temps usually creep up and a cooling flush is needed. On single boiler with PID like the Classika, boiler temps outside of bump to steaming run in a much tighter temperature range and with a much lower offset from the in boiler temp to temp delivered at the group than what you have in an HX machine where steam is always available. With that, a cooling flush on a single boiler PID is usually not needed.

[@markpalmos]

8:20 - The beauty of the metric system... you don't need a scale if you have a measuring cylinder or a way to measure volume... 1ml of water is exactly 1g of water. Good video, thanks.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

It is beautiful! One catch, espresso does not weigh 1g/ml - especially the crema which makes converting volume to weight tricky!

[@markpalmos]

@@Wholelattelovepage yes but he was not measuring espresso, just water throughput...

[@mosquito9085]

I'd suggest making the espresso first then prepare the milk. Milk cannot sit long, espresso can do it a bit longer.

[@rohankrishna95]

Great review...... most crucial question is - how long does it take for the machine to heat up?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi w, Thanks for the comment. Time to fully temp stable is about 15 minutes. If you want machine ready and waiting use properly rated appliance or WiFi timer.

[@Squilliam-Fancyson]

Thinking about this update for my Classika PID too. I have my doubt though this will work good with the 1 cup filter. If I go as fine as I desire I do not have enough waterflow anyways with the single cup filter.(stock ECM 7-9g, 20KG tamper) Even at full pressure(around 12 ,5 bar). So I do not see a big enough window for reducing waterflow anyways. I'll try again as soon as I got my IMS single filter as well as the IMS shower sieve.

[@catherineshort4476]

HI Nick I am just bought this machine and am still finding i cant get a velvety texture on my milk despite following numerous frothing vids - my milk is just boring out of the jug? An y suggestions please? thank you

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi cs, It's all about the tip position when frothing. Placement relative to the surface of the milk is critical. You mentioned watching a number of videos. If you have not come across this one I think it's the best frothing for beginners video. Watch, practice and you'll get the technique down: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoG2dKasbNCWgaM

[@xandrlsch]

Thank you for the video! Which one do you think is better for making espresso, ECM Classika PID or Unica Bezzera PID?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi x, You are welcome for the video! Both are very capable machines. The Classika has externally adjustable brew pressure. The Unica does not. I prefer switch location on the Classika and the external finishing is a hair nicer. Here's a side by side spec comparison of those machines with current pricing: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MjI1MjUzMDEyMjgwNiw0MzM1MDIwNTA3MTkw

[@xandrlsch]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for your reply!

[@daisywuwoo1]

I found its bit hard to control the steam pressure on classika, everytime the tip hit the surface of milk, it creates big bubbles (heavy cici sound not crispy) wierd to me.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi oe, always keep the steam tip at least slightly below the milk surface when the steam is on to avoid the big bubbles.

[@julian-earl]

Great video. If you pull the espresso shot first, what’s the typical time before steam is ready, as this is a single boiler? That’s my usual flow. Does it make more sense to steam first then cool it down to pull the shot instead?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Julian, depending on the temp you set in your PID, the Classika takes 2-3 minutes to get to steam temperature after brewing. That's a bit longer than some single boiler machines with smaller boilers, which is why we prefer to steam first, cool down, then pull the shot on this particular machine. AJ

[@chadgregory9037]

@@Wholelattelovepage getting a LOT of inconsistent answers to this same question across the interwebs

[@AC-wl7ve]

@@chadgregory9037 same. ive heard anywhere from 30 seconds to 6 minutes to go from brewing to steam lol

[@Michelsen3K]

About 1min. Enough time to prepare milk and stuff. I own one Edit: about 30secs

[@OnScreenTheology]

Looking in to buying this machine. Is the flow control an upgrade the I could buy separately and add myself, or is it something that must be purchased as a package with the machine? Thanks!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Logan, Thanks for the question. If you purchase the machine from us you can purchase the flow control down the road from us for your machine. You'd need to contact or sales dept directly to confirm your previous purchase to place the order.

[@TheFriskyBoy]

hello, how can you do preinphusion without flow control? thank you

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi TFB, Well depends on exactly how you define pre-infusion. If you partially lift the group lever without turning on the pump some water will be released onto the coffee. There's very little pressure behind that and it's probably not enough water to fully saturate the coffee puck. Another method is to open the steam valve to release some pressure from the boiler when you first start a shot. Opening the valve reduces the pressure and flow onto the coffee. Should note that dumping excessive water from the wand can reduce brew water temp on the coffee.

[@jackli2571]

Thanks for the video! How long does it take to heat up from brew mode to steam mode? And I have seen videos suggesting multiple water flushes to create space for steam during the switch to steam mode. Is that necessary?

[@jackli2571]

Forgot to ask, does WLL have a joystick version of the Classika, instead of the knob? Thanks!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jack, you are welcome for the vid! Never found it necessary to flush to create space for steam. Unless I'm missing something flushing adds cool water to the boiler delaying creation of steam.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jack, No option for joystick on the Classika. The Bezzera Unica is a single boiler, PID, E61 group machine with a joystick operated valve: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/bezzera-unica-pid-espresso-machine

[@marcusagren2838]

Why is the machine constantly dripping? Gasket failure?

[@yamcha111]

roughly how long does it take to get to temperature to steam milk, from what i understand it takes a while on single boiler machines

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi y, Yes, single boiler machines do take some time to go from espresso brewing temps to steaming temps. It takes about 40 seconds to be steam ready on the Classika.

[@AC-wl7ve]

how would you compare steam power to something like a gaggia classic pro?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AC, With a larger boiler than the Classic steaming power will be higher and last longer. On the flip side, it's a little longer to take the machine from brew temp to steaming temp.

[@markpalmos]

If one has a machine that does a pre-infusion "wetting", surely for everyday use, this is enough, one wouldn't need to have a machine with flow control? I know some say you can do stuff like use your machine to a "drip coffee" but really, that seems like a waste when v60, Clever Dripper etc work so well... Are there other benefits I'm not seeing, especially given I always have med-light roast, never dark, and most machines you can calibrate the group head pressure to what you like, 9 bars or whatever... so is there another good reason to have this added variable?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Mark, Here's a video covering 2 easy flow control methods with big impact: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l160coKlbbuaa6M Long low flow pre-infusions - like 15 seconds of flow before 1st drip are extremely beneficial for relatively fresh from roast specialty coffees. For medium and darker roasts or coffees which are beyond initial freshness higher flow rates to start followed by reducing the flow as the shot progresses helps by not pulling out stale flavors. Marc

[@markpalmos]

@@Wholelattelovepage I am asking mostly because I am interested in the bezzera matrix de Which does not have this level of control...but you can change the pre-infusion time... I roast my own beans so they are very fresh and always medium light...

[@staglite]

I know that ECM Flow Control Kit comes with a pressure gauge for the group head, but wouldn't it be more beneficial if the guage was a temperature gauge?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi staglite, Thanks for the question. Maybe, but have to say the Classika is very consistent with brew temps unless operated in environment outside of normal room temps so it might not tell you much. On the other hand, with the pressure gauge one can decide to let brew pressure in the group drive their flow control manipulations and in essence do pressure profiling. Pressure gauge also let's you observe and react to changes in brew pressure and see things like pressure drop with puck erosion as a shot progressses.

[@staglite]

@@Wholelattelovepage Actually I've got the ECM Mechanica V Slim. But I guess the same applies?

[@danielleramos9686]

hmm. made my shot and pressure is still at 10 for like 10 minutes. i’m scared to clean the port… is this normal?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi d, Showing pressure in the system after extraction is common and normal. System pressure is measured very close to the pump and behind a one way valve which holds some pressure.

[@qili9314]

Hi, I am going to buy this machine. I am wondering why your PID display is not black. Looks like on your website and other website the display is black color. I do want to get the chrome display like yours, is that possible?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi QL, In 2021 ECM updated the PID to the silver/chrome look on the Classika. It used to be black so you're just seeing older photos.

[@qili9314]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for reply! Im so happy that i can get a sliver display then. XD

[@MrJusmobile]

When do you start the count? At the flick of the switch or when you see the drip?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi NHm, When you start timing is up to you. Some go from pump on and some from 1st drip. if going from first drip a good extraction will be in the lower end of the 20-30 second range.

[@janala69]

Hi I’m fighting hard to choose between ECM Classika I PID and the Profitec Pro 400. Which one do you think makes the best espresso? I will also make some milk based drinks. ECM has PID and PP400 is HX but how accurate are the temps on PP400 compared to ECM?

[@kingofhtefr]

I'm trying to decide between these machines, what did you go for?

[@janala69]

I bought the Pro 400 and love it. No cooling flushes between drinks 👍

[@kingofhtefr]

​@@janala69 thanks mate. Are you happy with the temp control, is it stable?

[@janala69]

I have a temp gauge on the group head. I usually start the machine with the highest temp and when it reaches around 94C I put the setting to the medium temp and it stays around 92-94C

[@kingofhtefr]

​@@janala69great tip, thank you. I think that's enought control. Do you mean a temp strip like people use on Europiccolas?

[@austinschussler713]

Would be great if you said "It took X minutes for us to reach steaming temps." rather than just saying "now that we're at temperature.." I want to know how long it takes to heat up from brew temps to steaming temps!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi as, It's about a minute to reach full steaming temp but you can start steaming about 30 seconds after switching steam on and before reaching the full set temp.

[@alexlazaridisf.7276]

Thanks for this video. I've had this machine for over a year with the flow profiler, and it's a lot of fun. Had a question regarding steam wand temperature. What do you set yours at before steaming milk?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

I usually leave my steam temperature around 270F. Going hotter will give you more steam pressure, but also take longer to get up to that temperature. AJ

[@ervilha17]

How many time does you machine take to warmup both boiler and group head? Im looking to buy it

[@alexlazaridisf.7276]

@@ervilha17 about 25 minutes. Maybe 20. That seems to be typical of these machines.

[@pugeek]

So explain please how you get an incredible increase in foam during that cut at 21 min just by temping the espresso?!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

The longer the pitcher sits, the more the foam separates and floats to the top. This is likely what happened while cooling/refilling the boiler and preparing the shot.

[@brendanmalloy-painting]

what color is the pid screen on the models you sell now (december 2021)? Some pics show a black screen and some silver?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Brendan, new models are shipping with the silver PID display. AJ

[@kick0ne]

Hi! Great videos like this make me want to dive into the world of professional grinders... Would you say that this grinder is also suitable for filter coffee and switch between them depending on the circumstances?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AS, Thanks for the question. This grinder is really intended for espresso grinding. It would be able to grind for filter but takes a lot of adjustment to go from espresso to filter grind size. Always a bit of a compromise to use an espresso focused grinder for brew methods which use a much coarser grind size.

[@greysuit17]

Can you do back to back shots? How many can you do?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi gs, Recovery time is fast if just doing shots. By the time you've ground tamped and loaded another shot it should be ready to go. As with just about any espresso machine if you continuously rapid fire extractions there's likely to be some temperature changes over time as the group gets a little warmer.

[@greysuit17]

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks!

[@justinbouchard]

omg i cannot believe that a machine of that cost would actually send with a plastic tamper reminiscent of those seen on 30$ amazon espresso machines. that is insane to me

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi JB, up until 2-3 years ago even the most expensive machines came with the plastic tamper. Most dual boilers now come with a "real" tamper. In past manufacturers may have gone with reasoning tampers (or other puck prep tools) are a rather personal choice. Rather than adding to the cost of a machine by including a more substantial tamper perhaps they figured it's better to let end users choose their own.

[@justinbouchard]

Yeah I think you're right. The tamper is a personal choice. Which is why I might have gotten so emotional about it lol

[@Wholelattelovepage]

@@justinbouchard It's all good!

[@deevnn]

justin...most people who are into this level of espresso brewing have their own gear...actually better than what's being offered at this scale up item. So it's just a waste and that was why the plastic, simply a throw away item for most of these customers.

[@justinbouchard]

@@deevnn then why even add a throw away item if the company knows this. it's a waste is my point

[@kenroman777]

Marc just uses a leveler now so now confused again...

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Ken, Yes, I prefer a leveler for consistency but it's not required. Marc

[@golfchvse]

Did you say 36 grams of coffee in? What the

[@troop73oo]

Don’t think Bakelite has been used for a long time.

[@rwqcoll5505]

Hmm, 8 gram per sec, that's 36 gram of espresso in 4-5 sec? What kinda math is that

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey r, Thanks for the comment. Just to clarify that's potential flow rate with no PF in place.

[@manxman8008]

bakelite LOL!

[@youngolf1]

Over explained…24 min?…does this guy write IRS TAX CODE too?lol

[@Wholelattelovepage]

lol

[@davidpereira9058]

LOL - that latte was disgraceful - nice machine though.