Ecological Dynamics For BJJ Explained Without Scientific Jargon - Kyvann Gonzalez | #56

[@shanew762]

So cool of Greg not to have charged you for the private time/session! I think this conversation repaid him a lot. Great representative.

[@sirpibble]

Greg seems to be the archetype of the asshole with a heart of gold If you had a flat tire he'd change it for you and call you an idiot the entire time for not seeing the pothole

[@dannyworters8479]

Im still unsure as to where the truth lies, but I am sure that Kyvann is a great ambassador for the ecological approach. What a legend.

[@thegrapplersperspective]

He was great I thought!

[@SamBarrass]

A lot of CLA guys argue that if you don’t understand their jargon, you don’t truly "get" what’s being discussed. But that’s not how understanding works. Someone can be an incredible teacher of running without ever using the term contralateral reciprocator-it doesn’t invalidate their knowledge. Over-reliance on technical terms often signals a lack of ability to communicate ideas clearly, not superior understanding. True expertise means being able to explain concepts in a way that makes sense to different audiences, not just those already steeped in the terminology. While technical terms can be useful for precision, they aren’t a prerequisite for understanding. You can explain any concept in simpler terms without losing its essence. If jargon were truly necessary to understand something, then great coaches, teachers, and practitioners who don’t use it wouldn’t exist-but they do. The best teachers can translate complex ideas into language that fits the audience.

[@skepticalhippo6376]

100% agree. When talking amongst themselves they can use whatever technical terms they want, but when trying to be an ambassador for the method, you have to be able to put it in laymen’s terms.

[@jorgevasquez7572]

2 years full eco and it’s the best decision! Starting to promote more and more blue belts that have never “drilled” in their Jiu Jitsu journey and they can play the whole game, Gi and NoGi. All hobbiest. Makes coaching kids so much more enjoyable as well.

[@TheMartialWay]

Absolutely best explanation I've heard on Eco, and can't wait to see Kyvann in person for the Toronto seminar Feb 22!

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Great to hear!

[@thelastfightingtommy9985]

Tangible ways of calibrating resistance. Low hr = talking comfortably during activity, med hr = breathing through nose only mouth closed during activity, high hr open mouth breathing.

[@nickmartino2345]

I thought the biggest problem with the Souders/Big Dan debate was the lack of a moderator. Tom was supposed to moderate, but he just debated Souders then left. Then we had Greg and Dan running with scissors unsupervised. Should have had an impartial party moderate.

[@mattmax8599]

An impartial party capable of understanding the concepts of logical fallacies

[@thegrapplersperspective]

We did offer

[@DanielIvan707]

Gyms are supposed to be different. Some are stoners, some roll through pandemics, some are no gi only. Train how you want. We look dumb to normal people either way.

[@darraghgeraghty3868]

8:30 On the topic of % Resistance I think it’s totally valid to say “My 70% might be different to someone else’s 70%” which makes it a difficult metric to use When I teach and we’re trying to develop skills, let’s say mount escapes i give the instruction: “This exercises is for the bottom guy to improve at escaping, NOT the top guy to improve at pinning. Apply the maximum amount of resistance that still allows the bottom guy to do the movement” This has been effective because that line changes through out even a 3 minute round. It’s a game approach but they have been given specific tools they can use to achieve the escape. And it avoids someone being completely stuck for 3 whole minutes because they happened to get paired with a guy much bigger or better than them. It avoids the arbitrary % resistance.

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Totally agree thanks for the comment

[@GrapplingAutist]

Gotta believe in people more man. Crazy skills emerge.

[@StrvoJdkanse]

The question about failure around 31:00. The thing I work on is that what is the problem. It’s ok to fail your are still learning. Your are learning what does not work. It’s a part of the development of finding out what works for you.

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Thanks for the comment

[@DanielIvan707]

Ecological is just way more fun that’s the main reason to do it.

[@thegrapplersperspective]

It seems so much fun

[@froggy3496]

I once saw Dima talking like he didn't know anything about eco, and I told him that he should read about non linear pedagogy because his teaching style is very similar and his answer was "yeah idk I'm not really into reading" And that was it for me, never trying to convince him or anything ever again

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Thanks for the comment

[@pauletecelebradocusi3555]

At 34:30 you talk about showing some sweeps. My former understanding is you couldn’t do that but in a more recent interview souders talks about demonstrating movement patterns and people watching and learning from it. The main point was he didn’t go into 15 step details of doing it wrong and right

[@thegrapplersperspective]

💯

[@papopoprostu]

People dont have different learning styles. Its been disproven.

[@alekseiaminev4751]

Great video!!!! Good cop Kyvann and Bad cop Greg. Together they make a fantastic duo! Awesome stuff!

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Agreed!!

[@oldercloudify]

I’d love to train with this guy. I’m lucky though that our head coach incorporates some of these methods into our curriculum.

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Nice! Thanks for watching

[@SpoonableFreebs]

I train at an ecological club, and this guy explains ecosystems way better than Greg. Greg sounds like a politician-lots of talk, that nobody understands. He should drop the fancy words to make things clearer.

[@ECOFICO]

Exposure to variability helps condition the body, as opposed to overuse injuries from doing repetitive movements. So more different tissues and systems are being exercised, as we built action capacity with CLA. Repetition without repetition. It’s like chapter one in how we learn to move by Rob gray

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Thanks for info. Rob covers it in length in chapter 14, which we hadn’t quite got to before the conversation.

[@iamjprichter]

Think the other two knew what the Dunning Kruger effect was at 53:48?

[@thegrapplersperspective]

I know Paul does, he was the one who told me 😂

[@iamjprichter]

@thegrapplersperspective in all fairness, I had to look it up 😂

[@JannersBJJ]

Working on it. If Ecological is the great pyramid of Geza, I am still on 2 lego blocks.😅

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Focus on doing it bite size with at least 6 hashtags 🤙🏼

[@robisby2]

Great podcast 👍

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@danieldelanoche2015]

Looking forward to it.

[@Tjmont]

Are there any examples of world champs or dominant guys who only do the ecological approach?

[@TylerSpangler]

👍

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Thanks for commenting Ty!

[@southsidebrazilianjiujitsu7849]

The issue is that Greg not only talks about drilling but also says instructional videos don’t work. I don’t think anyone can factually say that instructional videos don’t work

[@orlandocarrasquillo4481]

I think the problem with any instructional is you have to drill the techniques with progressive resistance in order to incorporate them in live sparring. People have a tendency with so much external info outside of classroom sessions to just read books and watch videos hoping that exposure just seeps when you need it. Sometimes, that does happen, but for the most part you'll need the situational sparring usually at a paired down resistance to physically grasp how they work when you needed those techniques or if they even fit your game. Too many books and instructional vids become more a collection of stuff that just collects dust and never gets integrated because you have not done the right work in order to incorporate them. Like doing the moves with I method intention in & out of class. I know Greg knows his students' study instructionals. He just knows when people build of collection of that stuff and usually don't get their monies worth. Rarely do people put in the effort to get the most of instructionals because they build a library of stuff, but never really invest the time to fully utilize them.

[@southsidebrazilianjiujitsu7849]

@@orlandocarrasquillo4481well then we can’t really say instructionals don’t work. It’s like saying treadmills at home don’t work because people use them as clothes hangers. They do work but you have to be intentional about actually using them

[@orlandocarrasquillo4481]

@@southsidebrazilianjiujitsu7849 I agree they work but in order to work best you literally have to a training method insuring you're doing the appropriate training to have them in your toolbox.

[@southsidebrazilianjiujitsu7849]

@ I don’t disagree bro, but Greg said instructionals don’t work. People somehow make it work for themselves. I just don’t think there’s a way to know what works and what doesn’t right?

[@orlandocarrasquillo4481]

@@southsidebrazilianjiujitsu7849 Greg is too extremist and convoluted with ideas and language. You can have a balance of things. As well as play with things without going full on berserker mode with only this or that type of thinking.

[@MrCoHino]

@18:45 Everyone can train however they want. However, there is no evidence that some people learn better by ignoring foundational principles of how humans acquire skill(Ecological Dynamics). I think the outrage on this topic is because it is factually incorrect to suggest that the physics of learning and skill acquisition is different for everyone. These are essentials laws. To the degree that you train in alignment with these foundational laws, you will be productive. There is a misconception that there are two distinct ways that people acquire skill. That's misleading. There are just the principles which are competing with broad societal conditioning which is constantly reinforced by many education systems built on the same misconceptions as Jiu-Jitsu culture. The ignorance goes far beyond just Ecological Dynamics. I have yet to see anyone in the Ecological Jiu-Jitsu movement demonstrate an understanding of kinesiology and how it relates to Ecological Dynamics. Let alone many other principles from other fields of science.

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Great response bud 👍

[@AN043V3R]

@MrCoHino Me again. I totally agree. Universal principles underlie skill acquisition, and ignoring them won’t change how humans fundamentally learn. There aren’t two separate ways to build skill-only established principles often overshadowed by misconceptions in grappling culture and many education systems. Moreover, a broader understanding of kinesiology and Ecological Dynamics is crucial. Without it, claims about alternative “methods” remain unsupported by science.

[@brandonm5295]

What was Gregs solution for the duck under game?

[@thegrapplersperspective]

We'll try and find out

[@Whiskydanger]

Block training(ecological) or drilling as we all know it, has been shown to outperform the ecological approach in some scenarios. The problem is you have to figure out what those are. The other piece is understanding that ecological approach beats the traditional practice methods. Combining ecological and at times using block training is a winning combination. Traditional is boring and inefficient.

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Thanks for the comment

[@johnjohnson5133]

So much anti-eco sentiment in the Jiujitsu community stems from ignorance of the literature and assuredness it's wrong.

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Thanks for watching it hugely appreciated

[@FightAndFlight-bjj]

The conversation with Dan and Tom was super frustrating, I was thinking the whole time, If Greg stopped being, obtuse, defensive and condecending the convo would be over in 15 mins with 0 bad blood. Maybe he needs more time debating/conversating to develop those skills ecologically.

[@Kuduloka]

I agree. However, Dan's unwilling to have a conversation and just try to prove that he's right, without attempting to understand, also contributed to a drawn out argument. Neither was well versed in debate technique.

[@FightAndFlight-bjj]

@@Kuduloka For sure, Dan sounds a little brainwashed and obviosuly he's trying to defend Danaher, who thrives on the drilling approach being the standard.

[@Kuduloka]

@@FightAndFlight-bjj I think Danaher would be very willing to have a conversation with Greg and could be open to new ideas. He also wouldn't endlessly debate crossing your ankles 🤣. I was so frustrated at that part because Danaher actually addresses that problem in one of his instructionals.

[@samuelemeryjiujitsu]

Greg literally yells with real anger at his students, he doesn't care about the actually expansion or knowledge and he simply sounds like a complete douche when he talks to people. I'm good on that one.

[@bodegajiujitsu]

We have had a different experience

[@danieldelanoche2015]

@samuelemeryjiujitsu what are you even talking about? Are you talking about cornering in a tournament where you have to yell to be heard? His classroom videos have never shown anything even close to that.

[@BattlefieldsOfBattleFields]

Another example of GDS

[@BattlefieldsOfBattleFields]

​@@bodegajiujitsuyou're a good bloke bro, I can see you're trying to be conciliatory and that's cool. I think it's good to swing the pendulum. But even when you're doing that, they just don't want to hear it

[@shanew762]

Excellent already!... The whole issue is about exclusion of instruction vs doing both. If CLA/ED is scientific....then it IS subject to peer review....that is us. Training both is better. At best you could say no instruction for complete beginners is better. Short of that...NOPE

[@thegrapplersperspective]

Great point!

[@mattmax8599]

I mean you'd really need to setup a legitimate study. It wouldn't be that hard

[@Dan-ji5rx]

They need to understand the difference between a controlled study and real world experience. Sometimes in study there can be an outcome but in the real world it doesn’t always line up to the study when you’re dealing with a larger/different population, different experience levels, longer time period, etc. Also until there’s a legit study putting eco bjj training vs a more traditional jiu jitsu teaching method none of their so called ‘science’ is definitive. And because there is no one way to teach bjj it’s impossible to say ‘my way’ is better than every other way because you can’t test every other way.