Character Strength is Relative | Video Essay

[@mattheusfinco7050]

it's on the SFIV tier list 2:28 on the top right, jimbulus, our favorite fighting game character

[@dogfrogbird8710]

His anti gravity is a really good option against most of the street fighter air game, makes sense he would be a top tier.

[@johhatomii2691]

Jim bulushi?

[@user-cj4fu8qq9b]

everyone cares about tier list until you fight against anji mito

[@M4TTYN]

i don't.

[@happycamperds9917]

Anji in +R is weird in where he is rather polarizing. Characters that can say “lol no” to his Oki like Jam and Baiken do well but those who have to respect it tend to struggle.

[@FiveStringC]

says the best low tier ever

[@Wiziliz]

Tier lists in general shouldn't matter in choosing a character, but in XX, they don't matter at all. Robo-Ky for example, is considered one of the worst, but he can still win majors.

[@testament0]

Can't relate

[@xavibun]

I love me a low tier that has an unusually good matchup against a top tier.

[@xavibun]

Also I'm an Axl loyalist in the GG series.

[@megatennepster3833]

Ice Man. That's all I will say

[@joelsmemes4140]

Another great example here is Melee Pikachu. He only really has 8-10 good match ups in the game. It just so happens that 4 of those match up are some of the most popular and best characters in the game (being fox, Falco, marth, and C. Falcon) so while Pikachu does lose to basically every other top and high tier He is still considered high tier and only really not popular because fox can do most everything Pikachu can do with much less polarized match ups

[@dyllancarnley3431]

Another good example of this is pikachu rising in the tier list in smash 4 due to having a good matchup against bayonetta

[@devoncampbell3607]

Or being considered good in brawl for having an even matchup with meta knight.

[@goon5665]

Or falcon in 64 for having an amazing matchup against pika (he was top tier)

[@riannlim991]

Wasn't he good outside of bayo

[@tonberry2670]

@@riannlim991 Pikachu was definitely a good pick, but he had a killing problem that held back his consistency, which was a definite issue in a game with such an insane comeback mechanic as smash 4 rage.

[@bigbangbot-SuperSqank]

Pikachu did not have an even matchup against MK in Brawl. People definitely thought that at one point but by the later stages of the game's meta, MK was considered to win the MU. Pikachu definitely did better in the MU than most other characters but he still lost overall. The real notable thing about Pikachu is that he literally invalided some of the high tiers. Characters like Snake and Falco were very strong characters but they got completely destroyed by Pikachu. Pikachu could literally kill those characters (and multiple others) off of one grab (or at the very least build up 100%+), which is about as fair as it sounds in a game where most characters had to work really hard to rack up damage and kill.

[@Zetact_]

"Be formless, shapeless, like oil. You put water into a skillet, it becomes the skillet. Put oil into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a dispenser, it becomes the dispenser. Now oil can burn, or it can lubricate. Be oil, my friend."

[@chaotickreg7024]

Fighting games really are like martial arts in a lot of ways.

[@blonkski_2525]

dude where the fuck does this quote come from like instead of years of training martial arts bruce lee became the guy in the neighbourhood that just knows how to fix all our shit

[@robertshmurder6281]

Hakan's take on Bruce Lee's philosophy. Actually, I like this better.

[@ansrfururactions]

@@chaotickreg7024 more like one that is faught strictly using mental prowess.

[@chaotickreg7024]

@@ansrfururactions Not strictly mental. You have to maintain a perfect connection between your mind and your hands. It's a martial practice, it just doesn't involve hitting.

[@jackos5d851]

wow that axl mu section is really interesting. however, as a jacko main watching you break down his struggle is like finding out your school bully gets beat by their dad and feeling bad for them

[@DeitySkullKid]

There's a caviat on that tiers *usually* don't matter, because some Characters are just broken in good or bad ways, or just have a lot of issues That doesn't really have to do with the tiers per se, but broken Characters will *usually* wind up on top or bottom I agree though, in general, tiers dont matter, but it CAN make some characters easier or harder to work with, it just varies from game to game If I wanted to pull extreme examples, meta knight was literally a monster with easy to learn really strong techniques (some like having infinite invincibility had to be banned outright) but some like twelve just mean you're not getting far regardless of effort USUALLY that's not the case, But it IS something to be wary of, especially if you plan to start playing some older games that won't ever get updates to balance

[@Neogears1312]

Tiers always exist. whether they matter is game dependent. Garou is incredibly balanced to the point I'd argue the only certainties are Kevin, Jenet, and Kain are undisputed top 3 and Rock, Freeman, and Tizoc are bottom 3, with everyone else in what I like to call "dart board tier" where you can justify anyone's placement here, whether you think they're top 4 or bottom 4. The cast is so close I'd argue no one's really below A tier by fighting game standards. But tiers still exist. You can't argue Rock's low damage, Freeman's lack of any defense tools or Tizoc *not having combos* is on par with Kevin having infinite meter grinding in neutral or Kain having an unblockable. Those tools aren't that broken because even though they're unintentional they're not so dominant they eclipse anyone, but they exist in the game and can be used and will make them better. Even Virtua fighter 5FS, the most well balanced fighter of all time, has a tier list. It's generally read 1st place Akira Yuki 2nd place literally everyone else and for good merit. Akira has literally every option available and has the best of almost every tool the game outside of strings and a flip kick, which he lacks both of. This fine because the difficulty in even using these tools right is so high it necessitates making him noticeably better because then you'd never play him. I'd argue that if vf5 didn't make tiers matter and everyone one was equal than akira would be a pretty bad character design because why wouldn't you just play the easier characters if he was only equal to them? Something Tekken has failed with since the console release of Tekken 6. Speaking of... Tekken alternatively is a series where you will probably be laughed at for saying tiers don't matter. Even in T1 it's hard to argue jack a character with no real good moves at all or Yoshi who didn't really stand out that well could compete with Nina and Kazuya's death combo's and King elbow drop that was plus *94* on block, which means you actually took more damage for blocking this poke once than taking it to the face repeatedly. And every game after has had an obvious discrepancy even if we ignore the bears. Kazuya one touches you in T2 and is literally the only guy who can side step, and Jack 2 wasn't much better than his predecessor, T3 Jin was unstoppable as was T4 Jin, t5 Steve had an infinite from sidestep, t6 bob was so OP top 4 evo for the game was only bob, which killed it's esports scene for a while etc. etc. Even the progenitor of the genre has only really had ultra 4 be the one game free from tiers being controlling. Say even Ken was an equal to 3s Yun and Chun and you'd be laughed at thats how dominant tiers are. Hell sf2 is practically defined by it's tier list. With the videos description of Axl literally being what people call E.Honda syndrome, where you only have dominant match ups but you suck against all the good characters and you're good against everyone else so you just settle into mediocrity. TL;DR Tiers actually always have impacted every game to at least a minor degree and Will always exist, even in something like Dive Kick. I just think it's important to build context and look at it game by game because sometimes you can balance 50+ characters really well in a fighting game while still having clearly better options. It's called KOF98UM. And you can't do that even with the top 10 of those characters. It's called Mahvel 2. Low tier doesn't always mean bad, sometimes it's still great. And sometimes Mid tier basically means diet bottom tier. I just think it's important to learn why those tiers exist and how much they matter.

[@kirbymontrey3897]

@@Neogears1312 mid tier means diet bottom tier: super smash brothers brawl

[@obedpina7408]

I have no idea who you are or why this got recommended to me but now I wanna pick up fighting games again! This video was really good!

[@thepastaprogenitor851]

"Character strength is relative" Corrin and Pit mains in smash ultimate : 50-50; take it or leave it

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

STOP CALLING ME OUT

[@thepastaprogenitor851]

@@dabluepittoo-aqua4213 I'M CALLING ME OUT TOO WE'RE IN THE SAME BOAT

[@ink3487]

@@thepastaprogenitor851 pit mains are 50/50 against everyone except pikachu. pickachus mus are always 90/10 unless its gnw. then its 50/50

[@thepastaprogenitor851]

@@ink3487 pretty much. We don't kill him as early as other characters and rocked just as hard as every other char. Mii brawler and kirby go 50/50 against pikachu tho.

[@ink3487]

@@thepastaprogenitor851 brawlers 50/50 vs the rats? i sorta understand kirby cuz he can deal with the tjolt but brawler?

[@hyge-j8384]

Just waiting for someone to find the old dude, always interesting to see where you hide him

[@mattheusfinco7050]

it's on the SFIV tier list 2:28 on the top right

[@hyge-j8384]

@@mattheusfinco7050 DONT TELL ME POST IT AS A COMMENT

[@mattheusfinco7050]

@@hyge-j8384 ok

[@domc9801]

@@hyge-j8384 Lol is the old dude a little meme he hides in his vids

[@eddventure6214]

Jimbulus is a little easier to find in this one than the last, nobody was able to find him last time lol. If you wanna go back and look again, I'll give you a hint: He is in the DBFZ segment somewhere.

[@mattheusfinco7050]

it's on the SFIV tier list 2:28 on the top right

[@eddventure6214]

@@mattheusfinco7050 Can’t pin a reply, post it in the regular comments section

[@mattheusfinco7050]

@@eddventure6214 done

[@bestsnowboarderuknow]

It's not "equally skilled players" it's "players at the highest skill level and equally skilled"

[@Hardcrafter2807]

That's fair. When both players are equally trash at the game match up charts don't matter. It's whoever spams the most that wins lol

[@brokenwing51]

You know, sometimes a low tier Character is also sometimes a HUGE STRENGTH due to how unpopular they are, making it a Character some what not trained against a lot meaning people won't have the match up knowledge. This is how you can use a low tier effectively

[@DeronHargrove]

This is my favorite thing about tier lists. The low tiers being able to show up and do damage is so satisfying to watch in almost any context

[@habanerodash447]

ive legit never heard another player refer to matchups as percentages, but I still think this video does a great job of explaining the concept. Good stuff, man.

[@xboxpenguin8705]

That’s true, but people often do say that a matchup is 6-4 and things like that. Which you could interpret as a percentage

[@akiraishin7141]

11:40 Hey look, I made that :)

[@KingNerdius]

I feel like this is a lesson most people, within gaming communities and out, should learn

[@Atlas_FGC]

This is a lesson learned through common sense. Although it's often said that common sense isn't so common.

[@hatster401]

There's a reason why competitive Pokemon tiers are based around usage and perception instead of just viability. Some of the best moments in competitive pokemon are when players win using pokemon that are completely unexpected but have specific benefits that commonly used pokemon dont. Not a fighting game but similar idea.

[@luizfernandomarques9527]

Everyone cares about tiers until Alex crush counters you in sfv

[@Gaigim]

Every tier list is gangsta until mokujin shows up

[@Brian_F]

Great video but if i didn't pause on thst akuma balrog matchup disclaimer I would've been irked lol Akuma has beaten Balrog in nearly every iteration of sf4. Pr rog just performed exceptionally well to overcome the bad matchup vs. Akuma/infiltration. What is true is that Hakan beats Balrog harder than Akuma does. That match is terrible for Balrog

[@eddventure6214]

Yeah that was a mistake on my part, I meant to re-record but as luck would have it my mic started having odd static issues right around then, so I added the visual disclaimer instead

[@ROBAKABIGPAPA]

I think it's awesome how a new generation of players are learning about fighting game mechanics and culture. This stuff isn't new to us old heads, but man it's enjoyable to see y'all learning

[@periclescomoeddie5215]

Amazing video! I feel like more people in the FGC (especially low leveled people like me) should understand this. I first started thinking about this after the Brian_F “Tier Lists don’t matter (for you)” video and this one just solidified the message.

[@jonatanperdomo432]

Completely agree in that you should main whoever you want regardless of tierlists, but disagree in that chars are not as bad bc they do well in some situations. What does it matter if you have good MUs against some rare low tier characters, IN PRACTICE, where it matters, your character will struggle, since you won't be seeing those characters much. Still true if you do well against just one top tier in that case. I also stand by this bc we all know that in fighting games usually the popular characters aren't just kinda popular, but you see them over and over again, so if you are not good against them, 8/10 times you'll have an uphill battle. Now, I do think that inexperience against rare characters can give you a good advantage, that was a great point and I believe that's been proven in many occasions.

[@X3_lelouch1970]

I have no clue why you don’t have more subs, I love your analysis videos.

[@abbymems]

This is why it's waaaaaay more important to be really good at playing the characters you like before you worry about matchups or tiers. You'll learn what characters you struggle with through playing anyway. Though in team games, having a form of synergy is probably just as important as learning your character. But I guess in those cases it's more of a "learn your team" situation.

[@nodthenbow]

I think you'd want to check out the GDC video "Metagame Balance For eSports & Fighting Games" (it's on youtube), it explains the math behind pick rates and stuff that was somewhat glossed over. It helps to have some game theory knowledge, mostly about mixed strategies and Nash equilibriums, but it's not that hard to parse. It's the math behind why metagame tiers aren't matchup tiers, so it'd bridge the gap for the whole "why pick low tiers outside of counterpicks" stuff. Your video would have made a stronger argument if it set up some of the trivial proofs to show that tier lists that sum up matchups don't reflect pick rates. Side note: A good example of a mid tier having a lot of rep for their metagame worth is Cody in SFA3. Cody beats almost every top tier, but he's pretty middle of the pack on the tier list because he has a lot of bad matchups against bad characters that don't get picked. Just because I said there are trivial proofs, I'll give you one so you don't think I'm talking down or anything (it's just being familiar with the math really). Here's a matchup chart that would result in the highest tier character not being a viable pick at high level, proving that tier lists based on matchup sums aren't the same as metagame viability (1 means 6-4, -1 means 4-6, 5 means 10-0, -5 means 0-10, 0 means 5-5): . r p s v r2 p2 s2 v2 Total r 0 -1 1 1 0 0 1 1 3 p 1 0 -1 1 1 0 0 1 3 s -1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 3 v -1 -1 -1 0 1 1 1 5 5 r2 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 -1 1 -1 -5 p2 -1 -1 -1 -1 1 0 -1 -1 -5 s2 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1 0 -1 -5 v2 -1 -1 -1 -5 1 1 1 0 -5 (I hope that formatted right). As you can see by the total column, the tier list is A: v, B: r, p, s, and C: r2, p2, s2, v2. However, if we assume people are picking their characters to win (you don't need to assume this, it's just for simplicity), then only r, p, and s are ever used. You can dial that matchup chart into your favorite matrix game solver to see for yourself, but essentially r2, p2, and s2 are dominated by r, p, and s respectively, so you never pick them, then v1 dominates v2, so you never pick v2, and then v has no winning matchups, so you never pick v. Now r, p, and s are the only picks left, and the math is harder now so I'll just spoil it and tell you they would all be picked 1/3 of the time. This took longer to write out than it did to figure out.

[@Ga1oThymos]

Another video with Saxophone Under the Moon in the background :>

[@mattheusfinco7050]

Awesome video, I'm not very experienced with fgames, I'm trying to learn SF3s, technically my first "serious" fighting game. I definitely agree with the points you made, however, I also think that the character's innate tools are very important, in general results of course

[@mattheusfinco7050]

sorry for the bad English :(

[@periclescomoeddie5215]

The punctuation makes reading the sentences a bit rough, but your English is great! (although my main language is also not English, so I might be wrong).

[@mattheusfinco7050]

@@periclescomoeddie5215 Thanks for the feedback! I will look forward to my punctuation! I'm trying to consume content in english to improve

[@periclescomoeddie5215]

@@mattheusfinco7050 You welcome :) Consuming content in English is an amazing way to improve in English, keep doing it.

[@syrelian]

Its good english, as for innate tools, yes, but those factors already influence matchup and tier list charts, its good to be aware of those when thinking about them yourself

[@sicklenickle]

11:03 3rd Strike Sean and Twelve: Are you sure about that

[@atwitchyferret]

This applies to more than fighting games. I remember forever ago when I played LoL that matchups we're everything. I was at the point where of I played the character once, I would be able to tell quickly what their matchups would be. Like if they would get murdered by Riven or couldn't stop Nasus from becoming a raid boss. Matchups are super important in any class based system.

[@lalo2513]

Idea for next video: the most complex (hard to use) characters in fighting games

[@kuzunohaxiv7912]

The hardest thing I can think of is plus R Zato (Eddie) and Angel in KOF, but I'm not super knowledgeable about many games

[@ew275x]

@@kuzunohaxiv7912 I have heard of Vatista from Unib being super complicated.

[@ShadMuffin]

@@ew275x Vatista is only hard if you haven't played many charge characters before, I'd say puppet characters are usually the hardest to learn.

[@DANCERcow]

The tier list is just a one dimensional match up chart

[@superbro6413]

Few thoughts I had after going through this: -While being viable and being popular aren't mutually exclusive, in the view of a 1v1 matchup, its funny how "weaker" and "complex" characters get played less, while "stronger" and "simpler" character get played more, on a general level -I wonder if tiers and matchups only consider what a character offers alone, or if universal system mechanics also play a role. Xrd's Roman Cancels offers a lot of leeway in how a character can be used, and you mentioned how assists make Captain Commando as popular a pick as he is -I hope that future fighting game titles offer a single source on player usage and character matchups. You showed that one Xrd charcter stat screen, and I know CFN has char usage stats too, but I think it would be neat for more games to incorporate that sorta thing. Thanks for the vidya

[@ew275x]

While there's some loyalists and people who do like complex characters, yeah it's usually best for a tournament to go with a comfy and simple pick even if the more complex character might perform better, because if you are not performing your best you might get steamrolled as opposed to the comfy and simpler character.

[@syrelian]

Part of the issue with in-game stats is filtering those stats, most people are not good, and so wouldn't provide a good view of what the match up is amongst highly skilled players, instead just diluting the data to unreadability

[@Zero_de_Nova]

That somehow remind me of the Yugioh sidedeck cards where every body tried to sidedeck agant Nekros or Zoodiak!

[@Time2GoHam1995]

This is a great video. I’d like to add on to the matchup thing. Besides the 2 players being evenly matched, it is also assumed that both players play at a relatively high level and understand the ins and outs of the matchup. Also, most top players don’t seem to use relative character popularity as a factor when making a tier list. Although, it can be important for tournaments.Tier list are also relative to the environment that they are being played in. For example, in Tekken, there are deathmatch tier list which are are tier list for long sets. Some characters supposedly do better in longer sets vs shorter sets.

[@gauracappelletti3893]

It makes sense statistically that most characters would have good matchups against low tiers and bad matchups against high tiers. It's like how most of your friends probably have more friends than you

[@br0wn676]

One counterpoint I could think of was that, while you can pick up a low tier for a specific matchup, you could also pick up a top tier that covers even more bad matchups than the low tier

[@ansrfururactions]

Balrog: "my fists are the ones without an equal, yours are small talk against mine" Akuma: "I may have learned my equal for now, but do they know him?" Hakan: "OOIIIILLLLLYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!" Balrog: *ah shi-* *gets turned into a red smudge on the wall*

[@romansrevengethethirdstrik8086]

Small nitpick but you can’t call Kum unpopular do to weird gallings if slayer is third most popular according to your chart.

[@hazuoiwamatsu]

How is it that you make a video which perfectly covers an entire argument that I was about to make so soon after I was just inspired to make it?

[@gatorssbm]

I feel like thats always the thing with assumming we will get to high level which for me seems unfeasible in my current state and I wouldnt be surprised if thats the same for most

[@TheBelovedBun]

Random example: Me and my friend play BBTAG a lot. I often play Hazama while he plays Kanji. Kanji is considered a C tier while Hazama is A tier (last time I checked, at least), but Kanji beats me about 90% of the time. We’re of the same play level, as well. So why? Kanji is good at dealing with opponents in the air, and is a Hazama counter in general.

[@TheChimpyManCan]

I've seen the point about unfamiliar characters brought up before - a lot of tournament players end up seeing the same top 5 picks for so long that they hardly ever get in any practice with the rest of the cast. And then wham, a surprise Panda rolls over everyone and takes the gold.

[@chickrepelant]

The Less-Picked mid-tier has always been my happy place

[@saadhasan2518]

As someone who plays alot of Kof XIII with a friend of mine I can agree with your point in this video for e.g. he picks Shen who is considered Top-Tier whereas I pick Ash who is considered a safe Mid-Tier yet I beat his Shen almost everytime in an point vs anchor matchup that's because Ash has great tools for zoning and can even play a bit of offense as well.

[@canadiangooseok7281]

The thumbnail is perfect

[@ameryaser3987]

Great video as always.

[@Saskaruto16]

One of the best examples of this is Project M/P+ in Smash. Rant incoming: PM/P+ is a mod that makes brawl play like Melee, brings over all of Melees mechanics, move sets, etc. Jigglypuff is for all intents and purposes exactly the same in both Melee and PM. Her attacks and stats are all the same, it has all of Melees mechanics, everything. In Melee she is a top tier, one of the best and some argue the best, with the new official list putting her as 3rd and the old one at 5th. In PM though, she is the worst character in the game. Bottom 3 for sure. How? How can one of the best fall to being the worst without any actual changes to their kit? Did they just over-buff everyone else to be broken? Matchups. In Melee the top tiers all have very exploitable recoveries and can be combod hard. Puff loves this, she gets to take stocks really early quite often and has many setups and confirms on them. In Pm some of the other Melee top tiers were nerfed slightly and some were actually buffed like Marth. But in PM there are a lot more characters and everyone was more balanced for tournament level play. So there are a lot more characters that don't all have the same major weaknesses that Puff can exploit. In fact in PM the top tiers all have much stronger recoveries and can't be combod nearly as hard, for the most part. Not only that more characters overlap with her best attributes of good range and air speed and in some cases like Wario can play her same style but without her major weakness of dying extremely early. So at the end of the day she isn't as good even though she is exactly the same as Melee. Now on the flip side we have Fox. Even after being nerfed from Melee and top tiers in PM having better recoveries and harder to combo, Fox is still top/high tier. Unless you gut this character and make the mechanics wildly different from any other smash game (like brawl) Fox is always gonna find his way into at least high tier. Why? Because he has less hyper-focused strengths. He has multiple strong parts about him, great speed, great frame data, strong grab, good kill power, even decent edgegaurds. He gets all of this because he is a glass canon and hard to play. So he always takes a lot of risks and has to really execute his stuff so he gets more tools to compensate. Because of this even if you nerf some of his tools, as long as you leave enough of them in tact and the game still relies on similar mechanics, he can still find a way to be good. PM nerfed his edgeguards and his recovery, but that isn't gonna stop him using his crazy speed and frame data to fight the new top tiers just like he did the old ones. Even in Ult where they seemingly tried to hurt him as much as possible, they made everyone faster so his speed wasn't as good, gutted his edgegaurds, essentially removed his grab game, and gave all the top/high tiers way better recoveries than him. Doesn't matter, still high tier. Yeah they took away too much for him to be top tier (probably) but even with what they left he's still got better important tools than most characters to the point where he can still just outplay them with his better speed and frame data anyway.

[@niggaassproductions9073]

in other words “Tiers Exist”

[@Ramsey276one]

Tiers Exist SO WHAT XD

[@goodie2shoes874]

Matchups don't matter until you reach a high level. Just focus on your main and how you can manage them against the roster.

[@crystalskunk3658]

I remember one time we set two AIs to full difficulty and had Gief fight every character in SF 4 and he never lost and only even lost rounds to Dhalsim and a mirror match

[@Sorrelhas]

I think balance and game mechanics external to the characters' movesets also plays a big part in the relativity of tierlists

[@210LG]

This is a great essay for people to keep in mind

[@gabrielcastejon7914]

11:20 But you also gave examples of how tier lists do matter. Naturally, match-up sheets are way more accurate but tier lists are more easily digestible to summarize which character have more favorable popular match-ups.

[@burritoboi3700]

I tend to not care at all about tier lists, but I am really interested in matchups, so since I main chipp in GG, potemkin is not a bad character because he can absolutely destroy chipp in a fight

[@smokey3504]

How did you put out all these BANGER videos and I'm only just finding you

[@JohnJohnDoeDoe]

Not from a fighting game, but one moment that this video reminds me of is in the 2014 Pokemon World Championship, where Se jun Park used a pachirisu on his team to win world finals. Tiers in Pokemon are based on usage, but it also correlates to the overall strength of that pokemon, and pachirisu is in the lowest one. However, since the 2014 world championships only allowed pokemon from the regional dex, it made pokemon like Pachirisu a lot more viable. It also helps that nobody really expected it. I won't explain all of the details as to why it was successful as that I would have to explain the mechanism and logistics of competitive pokemon, but there are multiple videos on KZbin that can explain it better than I can. I suggest you check them out.

[@eddventure6214]

Little known fact I’m fairly into competitive Pokémon and I actually considered putting this in the script, but decided it strayed a bit too far from the central focus!

[@JohnJohnDoeDoe]

@@eddventure6214 I also just remember this now, but there was a time when Bibarel, and even bidoof, was banned to Ubers during the beginning of gen 5. I recommend checking out this video that I linked. It's a pretty interesting watch: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6i3iqhqa9WIl7s

[@ShoopzRicochet]

But what about the opposite situation, where I play a mid/low tier character, but decide to pick up a higher tiered one for a pocket? Shouldn't I just pick up the other character if they share the same positive matchups? For example, in SSBU, I play Cloud. I know he has bad matchups, but should I pick up Pikachu as a pocket? If that's true, shouldn't I just main Pikachu because he has little to no bad matchups?

[@lacaserne9924]

9:18 PLEASE I need to know where this OST is from. It's stuck on my tongue for years now.

[@3rdstrikestan930]

Check out marvel vs capcom 2's ost

[@Clarkbardoone]

I know all the stuff you say in your videos and yet I sit for for 20 minutes and watch the entire thing.

[@the_honma6472]

I mained Yukiko in BBTAG and even though she was/is probably the by far worst character in the game it was super rewarding to play her. Getting her Fire Level up and turning a round by melting the opponents HP was so hard to pull off but always felt fantastic and earned. Sure there are Characters in BBTAG that can do more damage much easier, but that never felt nearly as satisfying to me.

[@DeisFortuna]

Who would win: a world champion boxer vs. one oily boi

[@pogars6811]

"RREEEEE!!! U JUST PL4Y FUKIN HIGHTIERS SCRUB REEEEEEE"

[@MuJoNeSs]

Amazing content. Easy to learn and understand. Keep going, bro! Thanks. =D

[@karue7581]

Love your content!

[@HiNi.]

While Johnny is the best character in gear putting him in an entire tier above Ky, Venom, Faust, I-no and especially Elphelt is disingenius. Yeah I know the list is from dustloop.

[@aonbrogan8266]

Unless of course we're talking about Garouden Breakblow: Fist or Twist. In which case Yujiro Hanma is objectively the best as if you have even the faintest idea of how to play you'll win every time with him. He is genuinely so overpowered that you can actually win as him before the match even starts. Suckerpunching before the match starts proper is a mechanic and if you try it on Yujiro he'll counter and one-shot you.

[@fybso3057]

Another great video

[@lucymcelhone4332]

This was a fun video to watch

[@brunop.8745]

This video really hits home for me since I main Q and Alex in 3S Yeah I can't perform half-circles for shit because I'm on a keyboard and they lose to just about anyone not named "Twelve" , but I'll be _damned_ if they aren't fun

[@a_wild_Kirillian]

Good stuff to know for new players. Thanks for the video =)

[@DeronHargrove]

This was a solid video

[@nyankers]

meanwhile this made me curious about Melty Blood tier lists my favorite characters are at the bottom this only makes every time I ever won with them more satisfying

[@kennycosmic]

i was born to watch eddventure.

[@jamespeake2606]

Also general skill level fundamentally change how character strength can be used. Just because a character has "broken" tools, doesn't mean the player understand how to use them, just because a character has "insane" combos doesn't mean someone can replicate them. A simple character with alright tools will feel why stronger in a casual setting. To give a current example the question of who's better Ken or Ryu in SFV will move towards Ryu the better you get at the game. As especially after the V-Shift patch, Ryu is unbelievably strong, but Ken has an V-Trigger that's an anti-air, and that really can screw up new players.

[@hirotrum6810]

4:39 BRING BACK THE FEINT ARCSYS

[@mirror2922]

Its very hard for a character to be considered bad in a void where they dont have to combine the interactions of various characters not to mention hidden techniques and option selects completely unique to said character. TL;DR there are rare circumstances a character is considered bad, and perhaps the characters themselves are only deemed weak because there match up pool is very polarizing. AKA going from really oppressive match up in your favor when fighting X but getting your ass handed by Y because they have all the proper tools to put you on the backfoot. That's not to mention the accessibility to use the character at a competent level to and if the reward is respectable enough to pursue learning the character. Tier lists can be informative but equally misleading because some information does not apply to the person reading based on their skill level. An example would be puppet master characters such as Carl Clover, Zato, etc having high execution barriers and tend to be really good so long as you have the execution requirement to perform their gameplan.

[@Ohmargod]

This is why I will stick to my main man Nappa for all of eternity. He's not great, he's always one of the low tier characters. And that's why he is so strong at the level I'm playing at. People don't have experience in playing against him. His Saibamen mix ups, his 5H, his countering Ki blast and his counter are so underestimated that I love to play him against top tiers like UI Goku, the Gohans or kid Buu. Most of us fighting game fans aren't pros or we just want to have fun while playing. So we should stick to what we like, not what's best.

[@no64256]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Ike in Brawl. I believe he is generally considered a mid-tier, but due to the fact that he losses pretty bad against Meta Knight (the best character by far, with his worst matchup still being in his favor), Ike really wasn't played at all (I may be wrong about some things, I haven't looked into it in a long time. Kirby Fighters 2 has become my fighter of choice and I haven't touched anything Smash related in quite a while)

[@Spyrotastic141]

So, question, anyone know a good place to find matchup data? That's my main problem rn.

[@AffyMoon]

Forums, game communities(discord, reddit;etc), character specific communities, are usually where you'd find matchups

[@lb3613]

Loved the outro screen

[@Nobody-wz5xx]

He didn't talk about Little Mac in smash: My disappointment is a measurable and my day is ruined

[@thepeanutter9972]

I think in Little Mac's case it's the tournament stages not being in his favour.

[@b-d9099]

Ok what winning matchups does he have? And are they not negated by stage picks

[@head_snapss7587]

I was more the line of Brawl Ike. He's one of the best but is low tier because he has one a really bad match up with Meta Knight, who is basically god in Brawl.

[@G0nard231]

I wish he did talk about Little Mac since he actually has decent MUs with most of the top tiers but the problem is everyone hates him so they automatically put him in a (we win cause he sucks +2) which is sad

[@nathanaellazaro3347]

@@G0nard231 the problem with little mac is that his aerial game is so bad that just about every character in the game can just decide not to interact with him on the ground. This forces him to be aggressive and potentially put himself in bad situations. Even FD which is his best stage has drawbacks because the lack of platforms makes it hard for him to land once he gets hit.

[@door-chan]

"Character stenght is relative" Little Mac

[@johhatomii2691]

There should be a teirlist based on a player's playstyle

[@maulanamahardika4239]

Match up table is S tier information

[@justsomeguywithamustache3188]

what song did you use at 10:30?

[@miguelmialichi6367]

There is also the knowledge factor Everybody knows how the top tiers work because they have studied the character tools in order to fight him. Afterall you will prepare more to the shark than the turtle Low tiers are more confusing for people because they havent studied him. You watch a thousand videos to survive a shark attack but then a seal attacks ya and you die So many people play top tiers people just know everything about them and studies for them so they know them by the back of the hand Nobody played against low tiers so they dont have the practice about him so the low tier can abuse some bullshit they have because their opponent barely knew they had this type of stuff

[@manofnothing9982]

Dang Bro dropping some CONSISTENT heat.

[@LucasDarkGiygas]

I thought Baiken wasn't actually picked a lot. Where does these usage metrics came from? How old are them?

[@Usoony]

And then there is Anji Mito.

[@Shoundaime]

Then you have characters that are so broken, they cannot be won against with any other character. Like Storm in MvC 2. If they won without storm, then it means the storm player was bad. She can fly forever and charge her special while throwing assit to maintain enemies at bay, then use her special to do chip damage and repeat.

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

Sentinel

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

That's the reply

[@isaacsteele7986]

Here is another element, how hard is the character? Alot of top tier characters are almost hypothetical because while they are strong they are extremely difficult to use. Then there is that characters that have potential but nobody plays them to show that potential. Tier lists are just someones opinion, if you see stuff you think is broken or very strong look into it and ask others instead of just blindly following tier list.

[@nagiiboo]

Everyone cares about tier list until you lose to Dan because you barely ever fight him thus resulting in your lack of knowledge in the matchup.

[@vegeta7478]

My reason for maining Hakan is that it's the only time ever a character has my real name. I also doubt that he'll return as a playable character.

[@rogeras5966]

10:58 Axl Low with a low letter

[@salhyy9962]

That song KOF Video , here we come !!!

[@Sorcerer_Lynx]

How ?? How did you do that ?? How have you avoid talking about the Legendary 10-0 match up ?

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

4:49 what site is it?

[@wikygaming]

Imo tier list can be pretty acurate IF people start to put it for based on spesific character match-up individually