Edelgard: An Uncontroversial Fire Emblem Analysis

[@Arisutocrat]

Yes! THIS. I'm glad someone else caught onto all the similarities between Edel and Rhea because there were SO MANY. I actually think all three lords share similarities with Rhea but ofc Edel's are the most prominent because she's meant to parallel Rhea.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I'm glad that you agree! I think the games narrative becomes a lot more interesting once you begin to interpret the game with their similarities in mind.

[@Arisutocrat]

@@ordinaryunits4341 Timeskip Edelgard has big freaking (Nabatean-like) horns on her headpiece AND she has Monikronya's hairstyle. Her design in that regard is very good visually storytelling because it incorporates her connection with Seiros and the Slithers.

[@tomasgarcia7499]

What Dimitri told her towards the end of the Blue Lion route was so great.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Agreed, I like how all the lords call each other out on their weaknesses in the different routes and I think what Dimitri said there really epitomizes his viewpoint and Edelgard's weaknesses

[@laurenzollamas2324]

I usually explain it as "It's like someone declaring they will end Capitalism by killing the Pope." It is part of the system, sure, but not the whole of the system, and doesn't address the underlying human vices like greed, lust for power, etc. Per the developers themselves, they took a lot from Genealogy of the Holy War and Edelgard definitely draws from Arvis - the OG Flame Emperor who believed he would free the world from oppression but used an evil cult to do so and ultimately was undone when that affiliation with the evil cult caught up with him and his own shortcomings. But yeah, man, i wish CF had done a better job of challenging Edelgard's viewpoint. What would she think if she found out that Nemesis was more than "just a bandit?" What about finding out that Rhea herself went through the same trauma that Edelgard did? That would've been super-interesting.

[@worthywill9294]

I'm not even sure edelgard knew nemesis was a bandit She did believe it was over a "simple dispute" she doesnt say over a theft or petty crime. Plus given everything else she believes *(her list if crimes against the church during her declaration)* I'm under the impression that she actually believes nemesis was a hero

[@laurenzollamas2324]

@@worthywill9294 You're right - it's definitely been a while for me. That's kind of core Edelgard though, but it doesn't really come into sharp focus. She genuinely believes she has "the truth" and the only one with the truth... but that truth is significantly warped by the Slithers and the environment around her. (which is - again, disappointing. She's effectively "made" into the Slithers' weapon of revenge but she believes she truly is saving the world... by doing exactly what the Slithers "created" her to do. It just never goes anywhere because she never learns the true history herself and the game ends with her killing Rhea instead of "by the way the Goddess really is real and we played you just like we played that Nemesis guy".)

[@daivambrosia6647]

I mean, to be fair, Edelgard's political revolution had more to it than just "kill the Pope to end capitalism". Much of her support conversations and especially the CF ending itself show that she wanted to abolish the aristocracy altogether by doing away with Crests and landed nobility. To quote directly from one of her support conversations (I forget exactly who it's with, but I'm pulling from a long-ago-taken picture on my Switch): "Officials will be selected from the general populace as well, bringing an end to the very concept of social standing." That's hinting at something proto-socialist, especially the idea of materially getting rid of "social standing" entirely, and she articulates this political goal incredibly well completely outside of its relationship to the Church. Even though she directs much of her wrath towards the Church for its role in culturally maintaining the inequities, she still very much understands that you need to wrest control from the ruling class (the landed aristocracy) in order to truly create social revolution (and she does precisely that in the CF ending). Her support conversations are some of the best material in the game in regards to displaying political intention in characters.

[@stephen8342]

The pope isn’t one of the last members of a race of super weapon dragons that manipulated humans into complete stagnation

[@carlosjosejimenezbermudez9255]

@@stephen8342 Do you believe that when that information was literally given to you by the murderers of your brothers and sisters? Not saying it isn't true, but in context I always find it odd that Edelgard believes everything the Agarthans say.

[@quiquecortestirado4408]

I love how Edelgard has different development in her own route and in AM.

[@summonerfraco3603]

This was such a good analysis, Idk how it doesn't have more views

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Much appreciated! Hopefully more people will stumble onto it, but you can look forward to more from me soon.

[@skyblazeXIII]

100%. I totally agree with you. This is one of the best analysis of her character identity and personality. I love it!

[@azureXtwilight]

Loved the content, but maybe it's the way they present it? The way they are talking is as if they were kinda sleepy for me. Keep up the good work tho

[@lumineofkhaenriah3065]

It doesn't have more views because it isn't a glowing endorsement of our Immaculate Empress Who Can Do No Wrong (c). Not to mention, Edelgard stans *HATE* it when you compare their precious Edie to Rhea. Just go to r/Edelgard and look up "How Edelgard and Rhea are *NOT* two sides of the same coin". Some loser wrote a college thesis he was malding so hard.

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

At the end of the day, I just can't get behind Edelgard for because she seems so hypocritical. As you said, so much of her grievances against Rhea king hallow when she commits many of the exact mistakes as Rhea. And above all, she claims she wants to free the world and help the masses but to do that she starts a war that will surely killed thousands. So how can you say you have the best interests of the people at heart when you are killing thousands of people who never even asked for a war? Make no mistake, Edelgard was an aggressor who started a war against the Church and decided to subsequently invade the Alliance and Kingdom as well when she did did not have to. I know Church was deeply entrenched in both of those governments so it's not so black and white, but even when the Kingdom and Alliance were not allied with the Church she still invaded them. In fact, the only route which Rhea allies with a government is in CF when she allies with Dimitri, but she invades both the Kingdom and Alliance in all other paths regardless, proving that her motivation for invading was not solely the church, but rather because she thinks she can govern those lands more fairly. And that's just giving her the benefit of the doubt, a more honest summation of Edelgard's actions are that she thinks she knows what's best for everyone. Either you agree with her or she will invade your nation and kill your people until you are under her control. She will kill your people because she thinks that you don't know what you want, only she has the right to decide your future. And she's going to save you, even if it means killing you first. That's why I don't think one could ever argue that Edlegard is a "good person". She has noble intentions and goals but those intentions don't mean anything if her methods require slaughtering thousands and while making the exact same mistakes she criticizes the Church for. She has the exact same mindset of numerous tyrants in history, that only she knowns best so either get on board or die. Her intentions may be nobler than some of these historical figures, but at the end of the day, she is just an unprovoked aggressor who is willing to kill as many people as she wants to accomplish her goals of ruling Fodlan, because she thinks the only way a better socket will ever be created is if she conquers is. I said it before and I'll say it again: She's going to save you even if she has to kill you first. And that's just an indefensible philosophy.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

wrong you are so wrong on so many accounts.

[@kindle831]

@@genericyoutubeaccount4756 dude be finding the comment so wrong he didnt want to even bother saying any of it

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

@@kindle831 because its full of lies edelgard is nothing like rhea.

[@greendemon905]

Very well put

[@chococats2337]

Audio's a bit on the lower side, but this is pretty good. Keep it up. As a lurker, I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of discussion on the Reddit side. I'm aware of the reasons why, but eh.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks I will. Feel free to suggest a video topic your interested in and I might do it if there's enough to talk about with it

[@PKRockin7]

Really enjoyed this analysis of a totally normal and uncontroversial character I didn't even notice how much she develops between the pre and post timeskip supports, and how she ends up properly understanding her friends needs afterwards

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks! She really does have some interesting developments serving as a sort of tragic villain. Its a bummer that her route got the short end of the stick when it came to cutscenes

[@Ninjaananas]

It is sad that many people think she has no character development. She has but like with most things about her character, it is nuanced and subtle.

[@Spartanunit5]

So you claim Edelgard is acting in accordance with TWSITD’s plans by destroying the church and say that it leaves Forlán open for them to reclaim it, yet you ignore that at the end of CF it’s clearly stated that fought the agarthans afterwards. If anything Edelgard wiped out both an oppressive regime controlled by Rhea and the venom coursing through Forlán due to the Agarthans. Effectively making CF the only route where both ACTUAL villains are defeated.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

In this video's defense I made it before the inclusion of Jeritza in crimson flower and wasn't aware of the CF endings that described her working to destroy TWSITD. However, regardless of this being the case, Edelgard does ultimately serve the role they created for her (killing rhea and destroying the church/nabiteans). Like fire she burned hotter than TWSITD imagined and they got burned in the process too. Also I would disagree that Rhea is a clear actual villain in the same vein as the agarthans.

[@Spartanunit5]

@@ordinaryunits4341 fair enough, I see Rhea’s leadership of the church as something that had noble intentions but got twisted over time. I wouldn’t put her on the same level as TWSITD but I’d say she’s (at least in CF) a former hero turned Villian.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

@@Spartanunit5 I totally agree with your reading of the church, I think that Rhea is a tragic villain with her trauma causing her protective instincts and neurotic desire for her mother to make her an authoritarian force. In some routes I think Edelgard shares some characteristics with rhea and serves the role of tragic villain too. Pretty interesting imo.

[@Byrdstar6423-un3me]

My favorite fire emblem character

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Probably in my top 5 too! Her characterization and motivations are incredibly fleshed out.

[@0axis771]

I feel that there's a gross misinterpretation of Edelgard's character. Trying to say that she had other options or the like, is taking something while ignoring a large amount of context. Understand that Edelgard was not in any good situation. During all of part 1, the Empire was squarely in the hands of the Agarthans. Because of the Insurrection of the Seven, Edelgard and her family has ZERO power. And she was experimented on for the PURPOSE of war. They were going to use Edelgard to start a war, both the Agarthans and the corrupt nobles. She was to be their tool to unify Fodlan. Now let's play at the idea that Edelgard talked to the other lords. This is what would happen: - Dimitri: He is obsessed with revenge, and is more likely to try and kill Arundel if she were to tell him that he was behind the Tragedy of Duscur. Arundel is the regent and thus, if Dimitri tries to attack him, that is the Kingdom declaring war on the Empire, and thus, a war starts, and Edelgard doesn't even get a chance to oppose the Church for her ideals. - Claude: This is a guy that came to Fodlan to prove to his family that he is worthy of becoming the King, as shown in several endings, where his ascension as King was due to proving his prowess in Fodlan. Hence why he never sided with Edelgard in CF. He didn't want to ride her coattails and win on her terms. It had to be on his terms. If she told him her plans, he would more than likely blackmail her with that information. - Rhea: She has proven to be an incompetent leader and not interested in fixing any of the issues that she's clearly aware of. She's used her position as the archbishop for maintaining the status quo and religious beliefs while suppressing technology. If Edelgard told her about the Agarthans, sure, she could probably liberate the Empire, but she would then hold a stranglehold political influence on the Empire and wouldn't allow Edelgard to change anything that would clearly violate the Church's doctrine. Edelgard had a truly shitty hand dealt to her from the moment she was experimented on. Her literal options were: 1) Do nothing and let the Empire run by the Agarthans and corrupt nobles ultimately have her be used to declaring war and get many innocent people killed. 2) Submit to the Church and start a war, getting many innocent people killed. 3) Kill herself and leave the Empire in the hands of monsters, who will take their time before they start their war and get many innocent people killed. 4) Start the war herself and make sure that things change no matter what. Hell, the only reason that Fodlan ever changes for the better, where Rhea changes in non-CF routes, where the Agarthans suffer damage in non-CF routes, are all BECAUSE of Edelgard. Fodlan only ever changes because Edelgard took the initiative to start the war and damage the status quo.

[@darknessknows1235]

You deeply underestimate just how much control Rhea has over Fodlan when she was around.

[@Ninjaananas]

Wow, I think you just gave me a very valuable insight. The Argathans would have ensured war anyway. Maybe this one of the reasons why Edelgard waged war. Because if she would have stopped, it would have happened anyway but without her control and then the Argathans would be way too powerful. What do you think of it?

[@mrcat4508]

It's because of hubert I refuse to give even the slightest bit of credit to edelgard

[@Ninjaananas]

@@mrcat4508 Hubert did nothing but support Edelgard.

[@mrcat4508]

@@Ninjaananas I am talking about those who slither in the dark defeat that is 100% because of hubert edelgard didn't send us that letter

[@joaocisne556]

will we see Claude's soon?

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Definitely! I'm in the process of writing it now so it should be out within the week. Thanks for the support

[@joaocisne556]

@@ordinaryunits4341 thank you, looking forwards to you r take on my favorite lord, Khalid "Claude" Von Riegan

[@phantommaster7965]

Dude, you are one of the few people that does criticized Edeglord, my respect for that

[@jackvilardi1027]

Someone else has probably mentioned this, but Cornelia’s dying words in Crimson Flower are actually a mistranslation. In the original Japanese she actually say “all is in accordance with YOUR plan”, in a sense saying that the Argathans have underestimated Edelgard and lost control of the situation

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Yeah someone did shortly after the video was released, but thanks for pointing it out!

[@fishnutz5196]

This lines up with Solon's and Kronya's lines towards Edelgard too

[@skyblazeXIII]

I really hope, someday, in the future, Nintendo will release an enhanced version or make more story content dlcs for FE3H. Especially in Crimson Flower. 18 chapters?! Seriously?! Azure Moon and Verdant Wind have 22 Chapters why is Crimson Flower four chapters short?! I really wanna see more content for Crimson Flower more....just to kill TWSITD. But that's just my opinion.

[@Noahs_Chair]

In a interview they said It was because CF isn't a "Main route". The intended path of the BE route is Silver Snow but everyone like the idea so they include it as a little "what if" side story.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

@@Noahs_Chair no they did not there is no canont or good or bad ending as the dev s said as much.

[@Noahs_Chair]

@@genericyoutubeaccount4756 I didn't say It's a bad ending, none of the endings are. I'm just saying why CF is the shortest route in the Game and doesn't have as much Focus as SS. SS is the intended BE history, CF was added because why not?

[@stephen8342]

The strife and misery was inevitable, do you think those that slither would be inactive if she just stepped back? The idea that there was an option with no war is just flat out silly

[@ordinaryunits4341]

That is the assessment she made in the context of the game, Dimitri and Claude disagree. Any read on the necessity of her war is interpretive. To your points credit the system was changed by Edelgard's actions even in routes where she was killed

[@biandanxious3438]

Edelgard worked with TWSITD to learn about them and stop them. Hubert tells you that in the story. And the nobility and crest system are an issue. People like Sylvain and Dorothea have suffered a lot from it. Even Ingrid’s family does. I’m not saying that TWSITD didn’t make the church seem worse than it really is but too many people think that Edelgard believes everything they say. I personally like Dimitri and Claude and Rhea. Edelgard too. They are all characters who change a lot based on your choices in the story. In the end they are good people in their own routes. Other than Claude. He doesn’t change that much because he doesn’t have much problems.

[@DuelaDent52]

I don’t know, Edelgard comes off as way worse on her route than she did as the actual antagonist in my opinion, mostly because she came off as really tone-deaf and cruel (between such gems as “I just want to sit in my room and guzzle sweets all day and forget all about the horrible genocide people are doing in my name” and “I don’t know why people don’t just surrender immediately instead of fighting for their homes to the bitter end, if they surrender after then they’ve wasted the sacrifices of their brethren” and the attitude that the other countries in Fódlan are just illegitimate offshoots that need to be conquered for true unity and what pretty much anything she says to Dimitri and what have you).

[@biandanxious3438]

@@DuelaDent52 Her lines with Dimitri have some errors in them. Because of translating issues. In the original chat she was talking about how he enjoyed killing and stuff. And she was just showing her human side. Even Claude says he wishes sometimes he could just relax. That support with Edelgard is just her telling you how she wishes for free time. It shows the human in her.

[@biandanxious3438]

@@DuelaDent52 I think you might just dislike her personality. For an example, I dislike Catherine a lot because of a personality clash but even I can admit she isn’t as bad as I like she is. I also hate Ash. The “butt kissing” he does all the time annoys me. But I know it’s just a......actually I don’t really know why I dislike Ash. I just do.

[@biandanxious3438]

@@DuelaDent52 I used to hate Dimitri but I gave him a 5th chance and played his route while ignoring all other routes and I turned out liking his character. You should try the same thing with Edelgard. I’m fine with you having a different opinion though. It is what it is.

[@fishnutz5196]

@@biandanxious3438 i think you hit the nail on the head. You should be playing a route without thinking about a different one. Take them as their own stories

[@Doodoovessel]

Bro this is really good analysis!

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks! I really appreciate it!

[@MusicaX79]

The only issue I have with Edelgard is her endings are not properly explored and they are left up to the player to interpretation. As a result most of her endings appear to be just the same result that Dimitri gets in his end. While yes she is the catalyst that pushes the story forward I wish they had made her end more interesting. Then just a different version of the worlds current feudal system.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Agreed, Crimson Flower had a lot of gameplay deviations but didn't seem to develop the world much. It seemed a bit more like an anti-route compared to the other 3 (regarding the war of aggression and fighting on the winning side) and subsequently resolved too quickly to really explore the differences.

[@shizachan8421]

@@ordinaryunits4341 I've heard that they had to rush development and that Crimson Route is effectively unfinished. I mean, after all we even just got a still frame of Rhea turning into the immaculate one in Crimson Flower, as opposed to a proper cutscene.

[@MusicaX79]

@@shizachan8421 It was confirmed in an interview that the order of development was Silver Snow -> Crimson Flower -> Azure Moon -> Verdant Wind. Verdant Wind ended up being a copy of Silver Snow due to them having to 180 their character and story goals. Since originally everyone in the Golden Deer house was just a bunch of noble kids trying to come out ahead of each other which didn't create teamwork. So they had to drop their half finished plot and borrowed Silver Snow to finish it off. From what I understand Crimson Flower is short the way it is because the developers believed players would save at the point where you side with the church or Edelgard. Or even if you didn't they didn't think people would want to play through a house again just to get another route if both were long routes. The idea idea of "I need to grind this house again" was not a goal.

[@shizachan8421]

@@MusicaX79 Its just what I heard, though Crimson Flower kind of comes off as unfinished still. Silver Snow is longer than Crimson Flower when I would assume more first time players probably picking Crimson Flower when they already started with Edelgard, just due to her being the Lord character of the game and the game leading you rather easily into supports with her, plus the lack of cutscenes compared to other routes. Even Jeritza had to patched in later on, when one would assume that its a no brainer that he joins as a compensation for the characters you are guaranteed to miss. And yeah, so Claude really suffers under his route being the repurposed church route when his character is set up to be anti-church as well. Which I think also makes Edelgard look worse, because it kinda shifts the perspective, when its actually an even split of two establishment leaders with Dimitri and Rhea and two radicals who are willing to start war and conquer to fundamentally change society with Edelgard and Claude.

[@fatyoahi8612]

I know i am too late, but i just want to tell you that this video is sooooooo good

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thank you so much! I'm glad that you enjoyed it

[@NapaCat]

Rhea and Edelgard's similarities. Rhea's will be on the left, Edelgard's on the right. Started a war because of the Agarthans vs. starting a war because of the Agarthans. Puts on a very official persona in her role vs. puts on a very ruthless persona in her role. Can be very shortsighted vs. can be very shortsighted. Siblings massacred vs. siblings killed via experimentation Created a deeply flawed feudalist society vs. created a deeply flawed authoritarian society Can't let go of the past vs. focuses too much on the future Hates TWSITD vs. hates TWSITD Rewrites history dramatically to suit her needs vs. rewrites history dramatically to suit her needs

[@worthywill9294]

A logical person would argue that rhea suffered more. If it's okay, for one to filled with overwhelming grief for siblings and have extreme goals/methods then it's fair game foe the other.... Of course, never try telling a edelgard fan about that

[@NapaCat]

@@worthywill9294 I'm actually not an Edelgard fan. Her society that she creates is broken beyond belief. My point was that Rhea and Edelgard mirror each other a lot, and that no matter how much they might hate to admit it, they are very similar characters.

[@worthywill9294]

@@NapaCat I completely agree. That first part was a dig/observation for team edelgard

[@Kevinrikeith]

@@worthywill9294 Tbh I’ve had some decent conversations with Edelgard fans, but for the most part it’s when they aren’t making accusations like “Rhea killed innocents who disagreed with her, just look at the western church” and then you hear the sound of a million face palms in a second

[@worthywill9294]

@@Kevinrikeith I'm not sure you know how much I feel that second part..... bruh if I had nickel for everytime 😅🤦🏿‍♂️ But I'm happy your luck seems to be better than mine. Tho admittedly, I've found a small number of needles in that haystack

[@yunuss58]

That one sentence with Cornelia is a mistranslation.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Yeah I've found that out since I made the video lol live and learn

[@SuperVideogamer9]

Manuela discussion video when? JK this and the rhea discussion videos were really well done keep it up!!

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I'm not sure yet I have some ideas coming before a Manuela video, but now that I know there's some interest I'll get started making it soon!

[@edelgardvonhresvelg3222]

I know I will be burned at the stake for saying this, but I truly believe Edelgard had no choice but to start a war... OK so before I start, I DO NOT STARTING A WAR IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO… but I also think she had no choice. First, let's see all the possibilities Edelgard could have taken, and all of Edelgard’s circumstances before making her decision. Let’s talk about her circumstances. First, we must address Edelgard’s life expectancy, due to the blood experiments conducted on her as a child, she has a lowered lifespan, most likely she is going to pass away between her late 20s or mid-30s. Secondly, she must ensure that her system (which is one without nobility and without the crest system) is in place and will continue after her death, which is a luxury she doesn’t have, unlike Rhea, as well as ensure that TWSITD weren't a threat to Fódland (Though she is an ally to them during fe3h, it's not what she wants). Now we can discuss all alternative paths that would have avoided a war. so what options does she have, you could argue she could talk to Rhea but.... let's be honest, if rhea is willing to burn down a city with civilians still inside as a last-ditch effort to ensure that the church of Seiros continued alongside the system it had placed amongst Fodland, I don't think she would be willing to reason with Edelgard about the crest system and the nobility (as we know she tells Byleth in fe3h to not tell anyone about Miklan’s transformation as to not avoid commoners losing the faith of the nobility as well as the hero’s relics, which were a “blessing” from the goddess in the fake reality Rhea had fabricated, that's shows her willingness to keep her system. Rhea also does not bother bettering relations with Almyra, Sreng, or Duscur, So she also wants to keep Fodland bottled up all to herself, unharmed from outside ideas that could influence her delicate system, and before this turns into a rant about Rhea, She did nothing to stop the Massacre of Duscur, or the implied genocide of Fearghus to Duscur and its people, seems mighty hypocritical). Edelgard could turn to talk to Dimitri..?? but in his route, we see that he believes in the nobility, and calls the people weak and nobles as their strong protectors, which… isn’t the best (this is endgame btw so…), Dimitri does not believe in the crest system, he says so as much in Azure Gleem (as much as I wish I could argue using evidence from fe3w I can’t because when this video was uploaded the game wasn’t out yet so its unfair to use that kind of evidence). Also, Fearghus and the Church have deep ties with each other, so much so that Dimitri grants Rhea a place to stay and joins the war against the Empire in Crisom Flower, so Dimitri and the Kingdom itself would never turn on the Church. Also, I don't think the noble of the kingdom would be too happy letting Dimitri make reforms, if the nobility were willing to kill lambert for trying to make reformations to the kingdom, I think they would do the same to Dimitri. Edelgard could have asked Claude for help? But let's face it Claude wasn't a variable to account because he was in Almyra and Edelgard began to plan this after her experiments. ok... so she can't reason with Rhea, she can't count on Dimitri, and Claude was the way too late game in order to fit him into her plan, she also can’t create a campaign becomes it would exclusive to Adrestia, and it's still wouldn’t get rid of the root cause which is the Chuch, and it would take too much time for her to convince the people to change systems, TIME that she doesn't have, take in mind, if Edelgard had not succeeded, the crest system would still be in place and the nobility would still prey on each other and commoners, take in mind this is the ultimate ending in all three routes except Crinsom Flower, we see victims of Fodland’s aristocracy as well as the crest system, like; Sylvain, Miklan, Mercedes, Jeritza/Emile, Dorothea, and Lysethea. Look I do want to address the point of TWSITD twisting (get it because twsitd looks like twisted, funny I know) Edelgard’s perspective about the crest experiments, pinning the fault on the Church, but the crest system is still rotten, it prioritizes crest over actual talent as it did with Miklan, or how it led to jealousy to the point of abuse like in the case of Mercedes, Emile, and their Mother. That's what makes Edelgard my favorite character of all times, she knows what she is doing is wrong, she knows the amount of pain and suffering she going to unleash, and yet she has no choice, if she wants her new dawn, her vision of the future, then she has to take the path of war, having to hurt those she loves most, all for the purpose of Freeing her people, her world from the shackles of discrimination and TWSITD, anyways, THANK YOU if you made it so far, I'm sorry as you can tell I'm a big El fan but, I MUST REPEAT, I DO NOT THINK IT WAS JUSTIFIED OR THAT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. on that note, thank you for reading and stay safe and have a nice day!

[@edelgardvonhresvelg3222]

oh, I forgot to address the part about misinformation, I do not believe that Edelgard believes the lies she is spreading, but they are a necessary evil in order to rally the people of Fodland behind her cause, you see the church itself is a rotten entity which has allowed greater evils like racism to flourish in Fodland by not opening relations with places like Duscur, Alymra or Sreng, we know the churches influence is massive, she could have persuaded Fearghus to not commit genocide towards Duscur or to prevent and stop hostility with both Almyra and Sreng. and in a way, the Church, though not to blame for the creation of the Kingdom, they did Legitimize their existence, and who did non-other than Rhea, who must have been aware of Pam, who is HEAVILY hinted to one of TWSITD. The church, or rather Rhea has also halted the advancement of life-saving technologies like medicine and electricity in fear humanity would stray from the Goddess and would become like the Agarthans, If she were less ignorant, she would have realized that the reason why the Agarthans turned on the goddess was not due to technology, but rather for the atrocities they committed upon the Agarthans, in summary the goddess descended down from the heavens a struck down the "fell" Agarthan gods and proclaimed to be the true one god, she then began to rule Agartha as she sought fit and created children of her own to protect and maintain order amongst her new land, eventually, the gifts of technology she presented upon the Agarthans were turned against her due to her invitation of their land, and so a massive war broke out leading to the Goddess using all her strength to heal the land, while the Agarthans fled underground, eventually the Goddess would fall into a coma and in retaliation her children would flood the lands and cities of Agartha, leaving nothing behind except Shambala. Eventually, the Agarthans would reemerge to find their world turned into nothing but washed of what it once was, and sought vengeance for what the goddess and her children had done, hiring mercenaries to do their dirty work, Nemesis and his 11 (technically) stormed Zanado and killed the children and the Goddess, and brought their bodies to the Agarthan, which were turned into heroes relics, the last remaining child of the goddess rallied the most faithful and marched a war against the Agarthan for their genocide upon the Nabatean (children of the Goddess) the Agarthans would loose once more, being bested by the so-called beasts and their minions, forced once more to flee underground, waiting for their chance at revenge (all info came from abyss's library, some of it might be incorrect since its been a while since I last checked on abyss's library) tho no genocide is justified, both parties are at fault here, Rhea is too caught up in the past and is too distraught to see through others perspective but her own, her view of the world is to warped and so the world she created through that perspective is warped too, and so that is why it was so important for the church to be destroyed, a new system may be placed in its stead that takes peoples suffering in to account and makes it fit to accommodate as many as possible. That my take on it anyways, stay safe and have a nice day :)

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks for your very thoughtful comment. I also think that Edelgard is a great character because of how complex she is and the inherent tragedy of her position. I agree with you that she only saw war as the reasonable option in this scenario, but I have some minor disagreements with some points that you made. Firstly, Dimitri is certainly sympathetic to many of the reforms that edelgard wishes to see, but primarily disagrees with the methods of war to achieve it (as seen in his discussion after the miklan mission and with edelgard towards endgame in three houses and the start of azure gleam in three hopes). Dimitri doesn't think that everyone is weak and needs the nobility, but rather says that the weak should have a fixture (in this context the church) to give them security. Claude wasn't an option for edelgard because she didn't trust him and on the point of her misinformation she didn't trust anyone that wasn't her hubert or byleth so it makes sense that she would never go to him. Finally, I think your perspective on Rhea is a little overly critical, even though I agree that she has many faults. Rhea and the church by proxy does serve to defend the weak in some capacity as is seen in cyril and many of the orphans that she protects after remire village. The agarthans also mention as much in their book of the gods in abyss stating that " It (the goddess) will bring extinction to all children of men, and salvation to all beasts of the land, sky and sea. For the children of men who spilled too much of the blood of life, it promises only cruel retribution." This means that "beasts" normal humans are protected from the extortion and abuse of man "the agarthans". Other than those minor disagreements I have I think that your comment is very interesting and I'm glad that you posted it. And at the end of the day no matter the route fodlan changes for the better (to varying degrees and in different ways) only because of Edelgard's actions. Such a cool character.

[@charlien6123]

Edlegard is basically fire emblem satan

[@edelgardvonhresvelg3222]

@@charlien6123 >:( yeah because the woman who's been abused, experimented on, had her life shortened, and had her mother and closest friends were taken away from her is worse than the genocidal maniacs that are the Agarthans, who she is trying to destroy.

[@shizachan8421]

Hey, just replied to you in another comment section, hope its okay that I kinda repeat myself her and go into more detail with one point I was making before: I think what many people fail to take into consideration with Edelgard and her actions up until the timeskip in CF and afterwards in the other routes is that she is kind of Lord with the lowest level of personal agency and the least favorable personal circumstances, that also inform many of her flaws and bad actions. Her entire empire is effectively under the control of those who Slither in the Dark up to the point where the regent can, unpunished and without inferference, freely experiment with her and her siblings and nearly wipe out the entire imperial line for the sake of creating a weapon against the goddess. From the moment she is returned to the empire, she is basically under the control of Thales. Three Hopes outright confirms that if she wouldn't comply, Thales has the means to turn her into a literal mind-controlled puppet, but I think it doesn't need that context to consider, that when it comes to her actions as the flame emperor, her alliance with those who slither in the dark and her starting the war to begin with, she had basically no choice in the matter outside of cooperating and biting her time until she has the opportunity to take personal control and enforce her own ambitions. After all, what would probably have happened in the case of her trying to resist Thales before the time was right when she has key allies who will allow her a coup to gain total control over the empire back? Again, ignoring mind control, we see this perfectly well with her father. He was rendered a politically impotent puppet who couldn't even stop his children being literally tortured and killed right before his eyes. Her actions are born of necessity, to survive, keep as much agency as she can possibly have and find a way to free herself from her captors and then fulfill her ambitions, under the restrictions of an upbringing that antagonized her to Rhea, who also represents a system she absolutely despises, psychologically prevents herself from trusting others and left her with a heavily restricted timespan. I think this is also why Byleth is such a game changer when they side with her: Not only due to gameplay reasons will allow the CF route Edelgard to actually forge Edelgard to close tighter connections with her fellow class mates and have a broader set of trusted friends of allies, which lorewise could be considered as a way Byleth also ends up affecting Edelgard and her entire class but also the missions chosen for Byleth being more unifying for the class as a whole, she also in Byleth has for the first time somebody who she can unconditionally trust. Somebody who she feels comfortable sharing her trauma and past with and who sees her at her worst, as the Flame Emperor, and still stands with her to protect her. Edelgard is basically the character who feels like she has to do the most while starting with the least. Which I think is also a reason why Edelgard and not Claude is the catalysator for the war. We know that in terms of being willing to start a war, if necessary bring down the church and unite Fodlan under one Ruler to crush down its cultural and social fundations, Claude isn't really better than Edelgard and he is willing to do exactly the same things, as opposed to Edelgard he is just in a position where he has time to spare to fulfill his ambitions until he sees the right moment to strike and even has to bite his time until becoming the leader of the alliance, where Edelgard has to rush and in the meantime act as a henchman towards those who slither in the dark which ends up doing nothing but antagonizing her from others. And yeah, in three Houses he even enjoys the benefit of having the force by his side because they are already under attack, though I would say that this is also a flaw of the Verdant Wind Route being effectively just a slightly alternated Silver Moon one to the point where even Edelgards death scene fits more into the later, with Three Hopes probably ending up doing him more justice and showing that actually, he personally his in his methods and goals more in line with Edelgard than with Dimitri. But I think in terms of Three Houses, what the less than ideal situation in the way Claude was utilized does is also making Edelgard look worse by making Claude look better, as he is not allowed to let his more ruthless and ambitious side play out. But with everything taken into consideration, ironically it isn't Edelgard who ends up being the odd one of the three, its Dimitri, because its really just him who didn't plan to start a war against the church.

[@haniel4411]

Edelgard Did Nothing Wrong.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Cringe, but kind of based ngl

[@definitelynotsam8400]

Years later and I still hate Hubert for the name he gave.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

What can I say, my man's got some staying power

[@MicksUp]

i bet those who accepted to be transformed into beasts to fight for the empire are all Edelgard simps, and i find it so hilariously close to 3H's fandom

[@worthywill9294]

That's tough

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

same can be said in silver snow when rhea turns people into monsters.

[@MicksUp]

@@genericyoutubeaccount4756 true enough, except 3H's fandom isn't nearly as full of Rhea simps as it is of Edelgard simps

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

@@MicksUp not really 3h seems to be mostly anti edelgard tho.

[@MicksUp]

@@genericyoutubeaccount4756 that's not what i said though it's a fact that Edelgard has more stans/simps/fanboys/whatever we want to call them, when compared to Rhea

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

also she does win in every route even if you do not side with her what she wants to happen still does foldlan becomes united, twsisid is gone depending on the route etc so she does win no matter what.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

She definitely saw through change in the rigid church hierarchy regardless of the route, but I think it can be reductive to say that she wins in every route. She is clearly meant to have regrets as shown in the credits song of every route other than her own being a melancholic version of edge of dawn.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

@@ordinaryunits4341 nope in every route she gets what she wanted foldlan becomes united twsited is gone and the church looses power as well that is it.

[@greendemon905]

The Church regains its power in Azure Moon and Silver Snow. It also has substantial power in Verdant Wind because of Claude's alliance with the Church. Edelgard almost always loses.

[@mobiusloop339]

If Edelgard looked like Walhart, I think most fans would hate her. Her being cute and bisexual helps her case. Plus, her anger towards Rhea is totally misplaced. She had no hand in the torture inflicted on Edelgard. I get she's traumatized, but no excuse to not see through lies and participate in other's traumas. You have a good analysis. Subscribed.

[@pickyphysicsstudent201]

The problem with your argument is that we can also make the case that Dimitri & Claude are also cute and that people only like them because they of shallow appeal towards the edgy bad boy and mischievous dashing rouge. I won't say that Edelgard is perfect but her problems seems to be a manifestation of the writing of FE3H and not her being bad, herself. The game struggles to convey the actual information about her, in the Black Eagles route. At the very least we should be able to agree one thing, that we should naturally understand/sympathize with all the characters from all the routes.

[@mobiusloop339]

@@pickyphysicsstudent201 Hmm what you said about Claude and Dimitri makes sense but personally, I never see the rabid devotion towards their ideals in the fanbase directed towards them, it's always Edelgard. That's why I said it. I still stand by it too lol

[@fishnutz5196]

@@mobiusloop339 nah man the Claude fans boys/girls are just as bad. But your talking about a part of the community. I personally love Edelgards character and couldnt give a shit if she is attactive or not. I just felt for her and her backstory. And saying Rhea played no part is a massive misunderstanding as she was the one that enforced the crest system and made crests prioritised in Fodlan

[@hubbabubba2570]

Everyone needs a reality check, especially those who become sure they know how the world works. 'Hell is a point of view'.

[@heyitzmae]

when you were talking about how edelgard was similar to rhea in that they bring about their systems only because of the experiences of them and their families, you say this like edelgard is the only victim of the classism of fódlan. there are so many other examples of victims at the academy alone. lysithea, mercedes, sylvain, marianne, jeritza, dorothea, leonie, and those are just off the top of my head. rhea puts her system in place only because of what happened to her. edelgard is not the only victim of people with crests being prioritized in fódlan by any stretch. rhea and edelgard do have a lot in common but that’s an incredibly weak example

[@worthywill9294]

Wouldn't change the fact that edelgard is becoming *(or has become)* the very thing she wants to destroy. Also, with the same mentality. Doesn't edelgard only bring about her revolution because of what happened to her...?

[@heyitzmae]

@@worthywill9294 edelgard brings about revolution because of what happened to her and her family, yes, but unlike rhea her family are not the only victims.

[@worthywill9294]

@@heyitzmae ...... Yes, edelgard's family isn't the only victim 🤦🏿‍♂️..... but we're comparing a family of at most 13 *(11 children)* to an ENTIRE RACE barring 3-5

[@heyitzmae]

@@worthywill9294 i just said we aren't comparing to just the imperial family, we're comparing everyone in fodlan who's been victimized by the crest system. plus, we don't know how many nabateans there were, and if nemesis was able to come in and slaughter them that easily than i can't imagine there was a huge amount. this is supported by the fact that there are only like 12 or 13 relics

[@worthywill9294]

@@heyitzmae I'm pretty sure that almost an ENTIRE RACE beats the imperial family and easily over fodlan.... *(also I have every right to keep it family to family...... I truly doubt the REAL motivation is everyone in fodlan versus her personal trauma)* You're going off pure conjecture. If you're able to paint an entire canyon red with blood I'm pretty sure it's a good amount. No matter how "easily" it was done... assuming you even played all the routes then you even suggesting it couldn't have been that much is insane... Where exactly did CRESTS come from? Only the relics themselves are actually rare

[@GermanicusCaesar117]

Edelgard, the first villain protagonist in Fire Emblem.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

more likec anti hero.

[@cocoabeanz6171]

yep, and that’s exactly why I love her! ❤️

[@shadowsquid1351]

Really great video, I agree with what you said. Edel needed to seek help, realize her flaws & empathize with others, instead she steamrolls everything & everyone because she was sad once as a kid, worst part is that we enable her in Crimson Flower & ultimately become villains ourselves in the shoes of Byleth. Problem is she is misguided & misinformed and building her war/conquest on the basis of such lies. It's so frustrating when the player knows she's wrong but the story never addresses this in CF path, instead it feels like the propaganda route lol. There's also alot of nationalism in her words & deeds, thinking the kingdom & the alliance are nothing compared to the empire & she's "taking them back" by military force, shouting "for the empire" in battle, we never see that from the other leaders. Edel deserved better characterization in CF instead of cheap waifu moments that mean nothing, instead of being embaressed by a painting she should be embaressed by her arrogance & the ppl she killed, instead of being afraid of mice she should be afraid of the vengeance of the poor families she destryed. I'm not gonna even mention the BE kids & how they become yes men with no problems invading peaceful countries & killing their ppl! Edel never changes or grows or even get punished for her crimes which is unfortunate & made her route inferior. Even Rhea changed her ways, felt bad for her lies & finally let go of her role as a religious leader, in SS route before the end of part 1 she even told Byleth to take her role if she died fighting the Edel, Rhea saved humanity in SS/GD when the Agarthans fired their missiles. After the battle with Nemesis she never killed the other 10 elites or their families instead wrote them as heroes! Rhea never conquered or killed innocent people, even when she was kicked out from the empire she helped create 120 years before the story, Rhea never retaliated. They parallel each other alot but Rhea is much better as a person. I also find Edel's language against the Nabateans to be extremely descriminatory & unsetteling, calling them beasts/monsters/ghastly voices among other things who should be never allowed to gain power (even though Sothis is an actual goddess, even though Nabateans are actually superior to humans & even though they were genocided/harvested by both humans & Agarthans), yet the Nabateans are benovelent ppl who lived with humans & shared much with them, Sothis alone saved humanity at the expense of her well being & gave her life to Byleth when they almost died. Edel scapegoated the victims (Nabateans) & aided the villains (Agarthans). If you paid attention to CF route generally & the final cutscene in CF you'll find that it's shrouded in darkness & at night, in the Dimitri's fight in chapter 17 it's also at night, when she kills him too it's not just at night but also a storm is raging! Compare that to the endings in every other route, in SS Rhea is bathed in light, Claude's ending is in broad day light, Dimitri is illuminated in light & Edel dies in the shadow then Dimitri walks into the light. The devs made all this in purpose, to tell you that you are actually the heroes in BL/SS/GD & the villains in CF path, even Edel herself tells you twice that she feels like you shouldn't have picked this path lol. She could've been 1 of the best villains in the series but I don't know what happened to the writers in CF, she was so much better in SS/BL & I wish she was written better in CF at least be self aware, find the truth about history, maybe don't invade & co quer peaceful countries to rule them by force as a supreme ruler.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks! I'm glad that you liked the analysis. I liked some of the points that you brought up too. Specifically about how Edelgard never really has a point where she evaluates the way that she achieves her goals and the use of light within the context of the story. Dimitri and Claude, have moments of deep introspection in regards to their methods and their goals, but Edelgard never does that. And I think that's because her trauma has led her to only fixate on the destruction of the church and so here main goal in life is to metaphorically start "The death of god" in the form of the goddess. And I think that her one track mind in that regard is what leaves her view of the world that she would construct in its place rather vague and incomplete; which can lead to instability in the future. There's definitely a lot worth exploring in regards to the light and maybe I could do that in a video talking about byleth and what role they serve in the lives of the three lords.

[@J_U_D_G_E_M_E_N_T]

As much as I hate to use this word, but CF has proven it self to be the simpest route in the game, especially when you cooperate with the girl who cooperates with the people who killed your dad

[@shadowsquid1351]

@@J_U_D_G_E_M_E_N_T You're right, not to mention the out of character waifu bullshit we get in CF, like please stop lol, she's killing all these innocent people & conquering peaceful lands with military force yet she gets embaressed by a painting not by her crimes wth!

[@PKRockin7]

Even though she's fed lies, she is still fundamentally right about the ills of the crest system and the nobles using them to maintain power. They needed to be dismantled. It was not something that could simply be talked over peacefully. I don't think it's accurate to say she doesn't change; in the video you see her changing significantly in her supports and how she deals with her friends. She forces surrenders so that soldiers aren't needlessly slaughtered and ultimately gives up her power during her ending. I don't think most of your problems are actual flaws with the character or the route. It's okay to have flawed characters who have problematic mindset (even though she hates the Nabateans, she tries to forge an alliance with the Almyrans in her Paralogue). I think Edelgard could have been more self-reflective, but those moments where she's scared of mice and embarrassed about a painting are there to humanize her, to convey that she isn't some cold, unfeeling monster who lost everything

[@shadowsquid1351]

@@PKRockin7 This is exactly what I mean by her being fundementally wrong though, crests are in fact benefitial, the nobles are mostly good (they still rule in her ending though) & anyone Edel likes will not only be put in powerful positions but can be the next emperor only by her subjective decree, it's a far worse fate for Fodlan than where the story started with 3 countries each with their different ruling system, morals & tradition, I'm not gonna mention the atrocities her invasion & conquest caused, she should've reformed her country not invade others. Edel's fault is that she's blaming the crests, the nobles, the Nabateans, the religion, the weak... but never once understood that not only is she a part of the problem but what she's really after are all the faults of human nature, of corruption & she unfortunatelly added to it by her evil actions, she's literally creating a worse Fodlan at the end of CF & did all what she did to create her own version of social darwinism under a totalarian supreme ruler, where only the strong has power & she's the sole deciding subjective factor of merit or worth, meritocracy is hell on earth & a complete irrational dictatorship & in this game only decided by 1 supreme ruler. What makes her a badly written villain isn't that she's flawed, it's that ppl will find her extremely frustrating more than anything, the frustration comes from her inability to question her wrong beliefs, or at least learn the truth (like Claude), from her unsympathetic actions throughout both parts, or from the waifu moments that could've been used to humanize her by showing guilt, pain, nightmares because of her actions, but no the writers want the players to look at her cuteness & waifu status that soured the whole thing.

[@grantricks1995]

This was an amazing analysis of her character. I've been analyzing Edlegard for a while now because she is my favorite character and I couldn't agree more about her being a tragic villain and that even when you play her route she still a villain, because she's not given the time to reflect on her character flaw of lack of self-awareness. What I really want to see is for the developers to continue the DLC and release a pack that gives us the last 4 chapters of her story, because I believe 4 chapters of her battling TWSITD would give her a great opportunity for her to understand the truth behind her path and realize that she was manipulated into her beliefs. However, I don't want that to think her goal was wrong but rather give her the chance to self reflect and give her a chance to see the damage she has done and be remorseful and show her regret for the lives lost and come to an understanding that sacrificing lives for the future is not always the way. I feel this would give an already nuanced villain a chance for her to leave the darkness and enter the light, this would also continue the imagery that Byleth is this fixer that helps the lords grow like what he did for Claude and Dimitri, because unlike them Edelgard only started her growth in CF and wasn't given a chance to finish it. This might be what the developers intended, but I would love to see her character fully develop both for my love of complex villain and of course my love for Edelgard.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad that you liked it! I agree I liked the crimson flower route even though it seemed to be a bit rushed at launch. And I think its being rushed became more clear when they added Jeritza after the fact. I think that could be an interesting idea for DLC to develop her character even more, in general I'd love to see more DLC for the game though. I've seen that the blue lions had a route split at some point and that could have been an interesting thing to add through new content too.

[@golfer435]

I honestly think that Crimson Flower is as intended, I dont think k it was rushed either. It is the ideal of what wants to happen, because in an ideal world that is what would happen. She would roll over everything with ease. Also, she is extremely self aware. When you talk with, even before going into Crimson Flower, she is constantly talking about how much what she must do weighs on her. It's constantly in her mind in support with Byleth and Hubert, theres not a single scene that goes without her talking about how much she has to steel herself. It's not that isnt self aware, its that she chooses not go dwell on it and does she feels she must. Where she loses herself is when she doesnt have a. Byleth to talk to and then she begins to become less self aware.

[@Ninjaananas]

She is very aware of the damage she does. She talks about it often and is sorry about it, yet she believes that it must be done.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

@@Ninjaananas and she is nothing like a villian.

[@Ninjaananas]

@@genericyoutubeaccount4756 Indeed. She is rather an anti-hero. And she is right.

[@Yeetbc]

There are some points that I disagree with and information you left out but I’m glad you pointed out her growth through her supports in CF and the parallels between her and rhea

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Glad you liked some parts despite some disagreements. As long as people find something interesting in my videos I'm happy.

[@ilo3456]

I really liked Edelgard the best, I could see that she wished for a better world, and I wanted to help her achieve that world, I knew she was flawed and I felt like I had to be by her side as I had promised her I would, I would help her make up for what she is lacking and what help her learn to grow. I feel that as Byleth I can help Edelgard achieve the best outcome, simply put I feel like as Byleth and Edelgard's lover you the player have the ability to help her introspect and steer her down the right path, to avoid the same mistakes of Rhea, I believe that the system that Rhea perpetuates is evil, not because it means wrong but because it continues to ignore the suffering it creates by pursuing peace at any cost. I don't believe she will create a perfect world, but she will help Fodlan take a step in the right direction by destroying the crest system that has caused so much pain, and her ideal of equality and meritocracy will lead in the future to a better world, but she can never achieve any change without someone to counsel her and steady her hand so her aim stays true to get ideals.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Good points, I totally agree that byleth is necessary for not only edelgard but all the lords to overcome their flaws.

[@ilo3456]

@@ordinaryunits4341 Yeah Byleth is that one friend that keeps from doing anything too stupid when you get drunk

[@charleouel9012]

Pretty good job not spoileing too much of other route. Also I agreed overall tho I won't lie the only reason Dimitrie is seen as a good boy or what ever if mainly because the focus of CF isn't about Dimitri hell he got like 2 line and you don't even know what he did of horible thing to secure his victory and they even make him not be the one that forces his alie to transphome into demonic beast (it kinda weird in my opinion I won't lie). Any way I don't know much about Dimitri but still he doesn't seem prefectly clean if he wanted to avoid dead he just had to let Edelgard win or try to talk whit her and reach a common ground. Afterall the chest and the systeme in Three houses is showen to be flaw alot of time so she not fully wrong (tho I wouldn't say she wright) But still Could have alie whit her if he wanted to nothing was stoping him form saying ok but I want to keep my side of the territory if you don't respect that you will get throw away by my army) This way he would have keep his power over his ppl and he would have reduce the casuallity of the war hell am sure they could even have come out whit something to seal Rhea or something insteed of flat out killing her. AKA I don't think Dimitri is doing the right thing in CF he is a villant in my book Claude on the other hand he let her pass after loseing his fight and just go away Dimitri wouldn't have done that what so ever (and I guess Claude got better reason to fight Edelgard he in the midle of a 2 side war and his country is fuck so he trying to get the power strugle in it back in control. I guess he could have let it to Edelgard but he probably didn'T want his country to become the empire and since his country got less military power ETC. Any way I won't lie Edelgard is not a good guy tho I wouldn't say anyone is on a good side in this game... Tho I like that Edelgard is one of the rare Active Protagonist we got (by Active I mean she the cause of the trigger of the story kinda Tho the trigger is more the THSITD (those are the true one that change the somewhat stable system they had before tho why they did that is not know so may be there was a other more active character.) Any way I like that we got one of the frist Active protagonist. (by active I mean character that change the status of the world, Exemple: Alm isn't an Active Protagonist he start his journey because of the War and the king of Zophia being bad whitout that he just chilling in his farm and haveing good time, Tho I guess it hard to say that active since she does have a trigger that change her so I guess there that being torrture and all) SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH

[@114bleachfan]

Wow it's amazing how 90% of the shit you said was completely wrong Dimitri is not evil especially in Crimson flower he is almost completely innocent victim of edlegarud bloody war the reason why he didn't work with edelgard is because her war is completely unjust her talk on Rhea is founded by lies Rhea has done literally nothing until the very end of crimson flower to justify a war against her that's why he's not working with edelgard and that's why Claude is not working with her either because by all accounts she's a liar that is making up crimes to justify her genocide

[@charleouel9012]

@@114bleachfan ok

[@charleouel9012]

@@114bleachfan Also you probably don't know but there a difference bettwing murder and a genocide. Her end goal is technically the head of Rhea not the genocide of a race or anything like that. (after that you can say her war is not justifed and Rhea is a benevolent leader.) After that it depend on the point of view really. For sure she could be wrose tho I wouldn't call benevolent neither. It more of a casse of POV reallly. It rebellion vs institution. Dimitri being on the side of the institution in CF. Edelgard doesn't do any genocide in CF not even 1 (at most she use kid to do dark beast thingy? tho it isn't clear if she the one doing it or if it TWSITD who did it. since par of her groupe isn't under her command and is literally side groupe to her she got ties to them sure but she likely doesn't know all there plan and stuff onless she the leader of that groupe but I would be really surprise she would since TWSITD literally where useing her and her brother and sister before she got any power... So like really I it this organization got nothing to do whit her it not like her dad was leading this groupe of ppl. Any way she doesn't do any genocid in CF I don't know what you are about on this. Tho I do agree that Dimitry is somewhat a good man in CF (tho kinda hard to judge since he kinda nothing in CF let be real he just a boss you don't see his story or his motivation or anything he literally a soldiar like older game got thos villant that hold a fort whit no name he bassicly that in CF...) we can't really give him a "Good of Bad" basse on CF. Tho basse on CF we can give Edelgard a neutral stand. (she doesn't want to kill every want she want to do what she think is best for her ppl and for the world. After that you can disagree that it what is best sure.) The same way you can disagree whit England colinizing the america or what ever. (those even are arguably really similar in alot of ways) IS an empire good or bad no they aren't an empire is neutral it useally crumble whene it get too big and can't protect itself or there too much diverse thinking in it but an empire isn't good or bad an empire protect it ppl and try to help them... Hell there alot of empire that work for quite alot of time Roman, Britanique, French and more recently USA could areguably be call a empire. Any way After all that SORRY For the confuseing comment. Have a great day not hateing on Dimitry I didn't play anything else for CF so I got 0 info on him his motivation and all that in CF he literally just a pawn The character in CF is Edelgard, Volkhard, Cornelia, Solon, Rhea , Thales. Claude is more of a character tho I would say he that important overall he just kinda get beaten and just leave and say ok what ever I don't care so much about what am doing to the point of loseing my life for it. BTW don't get me wrong am not saying she "good" or dimitry is "bad" in CF since there isn't such think since for something thing she fully wrong and stupid but Dimitry is also wrong and stupid on some area too like trying to fight back whene you already lost and you could just give up and save ppl form dieing for not reason a good leader know whene he lost and Dimitry doesn't know he keep fighting until the end (honorable make for a good soldiar for sure... But not bright for his ppl) SORRY FOR THE BAD ENGLISH

[@logandelaharpe6362]

Tragic hero not villian

[@NapaCat]

Sadly, she's more antagonistic than heroic.

[@DHVF28]

She’s a tragic hero in 25% of the routes and a tragic villain in the other 75%

[@logandelaharpe6362]

100 % of the routes she’s a tragic hero no matter which route her war leads to better lives and changes for the better in fodlan

[@DHVF28]

@@logandelaharpe6362 While that may be true, it isn’t her that directly causes the change but the winner of the war. If anything, she was an obstacle in the way of Byleth’s army who eventually made the changes. That shouldn’t be a valid reason for her.

[@NapaCat]

@@logandelaharpe6362 nope. Edelgard builds a meritocracy that is so unstable it needs secret assassination squads. Meritocracies have the issue of merit being subjective, and oh right, Crests are very useful and contributr to merit gained. It's social Darwinism.

[@saintlugia]

I'm still playing the game but when does edelgard lie about the misdeads of the past?

[@ordinaryunits4341]

The moment I'm referring to is after she declares war on the church within the SS, AM and VW routes where she misrepresents the goals and actions of the church during her speech to the imperial army. Within her speech I don't think that she is necessarily lying but is rather referring to a somewhat warped view of the church implanted in her by the agarthans. The church isn't innocent, but its also not as devious as she presents it to be here. *Spoilers* Direct quote from AM, SS and VW below Edelgard- "The leaders of the church have misused its creed to fulfill their true desire-to rule the world. They have fooled the people of Fódlan. Long ago, they divided the Empire to create a Kingdom, and then...divided that Kingdom to create an Alliance. They did all of this to make the masses bicker amongst themselves. They caused instability in order to reinforce their own authority. They gathered gold and lived in extravagance. How? By preying on the devotion of those who wished for the goddess's salvation."

[@saintlugia]

@@ordinaryunits4341 nothing in that quote is untrue thought except the motivation of the church. Though given that the church has been manipulating fodland for 1000 years it very well could have been. The church has been suppressing information and having the people hate foreigners it isn't a stretch for me yo believe they're behind civil wars to keep keep their control. They kill innocent people for the crime if discovering technology.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

​@@saintlugia I get that, but in the cindered shadows dlc its actually implied within the library that the Agarthans were involved in the rebellion of the kingdom from the empire. Because the Agarthans saw edelgard as their opportunity to defeat the nabiteans they made sure that edelgard would place the blame for their actions on the church. And most of what she was talking about in the speech was specifically the motivations of the church which was inaccurate. The church needed to change or be done away with and was certainly corrupt, but not in the ways she presented within the speech; likely due to a misunderstanding of history encouraged by the Agarthans. Again I don't think that edelgard was trying to be malicious here, but was just misunderstood.

[@saintlugia]

@@ordinaryunits4341 so I was right edelgard didn't lie at all. The thing she believed was purposely false, but she didn't knowingly lie

[@ordinaryunits4341]

@@saintlugia Guess so lol

[@the_happykodiak2421]

Obviously my gripe is with the narrative, not Edelgard cause she doesn’t exist. It would have made more sense if she was mind controlled and only in her route do you break this mind control, and in doing so, give her a moment to be remorseful over what she has done. Three houses did a very good job at drumming up discussion about its own story because the characters are quite complex. Regardless of how you may or may not defend Edelgard, its pretty apparent that because she only survives in her route, her decisions lead to her demise as they are questionable at best. Azure Moon definitely felt like the most unifying play-through, felt like the best outcome out of all 4 playthroughs, followed by Verdant Wind

[@ordinaryunits4341]

It's true I've even seen people arguing about three houses in the comment section of a random engage meme video lol

[@the_happykodiak2421]

@@ordinaryunits4341 lol 🤣

[@LiracyonLeague]

Did you even beat the game? Edelgard doesnt become anything like what you described and trying to downplay the evils of the church is nonsense. Even calling her a villain is silly. You didnt even talk on what the church imposed on her family. Edelgard couldve had an easy life leaving humanity enslaved to the church. She chose to be something more.

[@Key-mb2ko]

you should watch the video "edelgard will always lose" it's pretty interesting

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I did it's just an interpretation of her character within the context of the overarching narrative. I still stand by her being a tragic villain, because she causes a lot of suffering for others because she sees no other way around it. Thanks for watching though.

[@LiracyonLeague]

@@ordinaryunits4341 Yeah. The Church is murdering people that simply disagree with them. Shame on Edelgard for not just obeying the Church and living a cushy life underneath their power. Shame on her for freeing people from that insane tyranny while also tearing down the noble hierarchy so that everyday citizens can rise up and make something of themselves. No matter who wins Fodlan becomes better, and that betterment cannot be found without Edelgard. She was just the only one able to both see, and do something about it. Arguably the only evil in the game is "Those who slither" which Edelgard dispatches in the post game credits and Rhea, who is basically taking out her revenge on humanity.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Fair enough I never said that change could have happened with nobody doing anything; in my rhea video I actually completely agreed with you. Never said Edelgard was evil either. TWSITD are undoubtedly evil, but rhea is not. While Rhea is not a good leader she's not a malicious person and if you don't pick up on that you're just missing out on some of the nuance of the plot though. Thanks for voicing your disagreements tho

[@shadowsquid1351]

Edelgard is the main villain of the game though, the devs themselves say so: "Tell us how Edelgard and the Empire got to the position they're in right now? Kusakihara: I think most of the characters walking the path of conquest up until now have been men. I think villains are often men.. I wanted to do something unexpected, or make it harder to predict future events, so that role went to a woman this time." Also please.. just play the other paths. Church has nothing to do with Edel's past, the Agarthans are to blame, AKA Edel's allies she joins up with & help achieve their dream of destroying the Nabateans/church.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

and one more thing the war was needed as well no matter the route things get better because the war happened and rhea is out of power so she was right also she was right about most things when it comes to rhea and rhea was holding humanity back she admits in her s support to doing what edelgard accues her of doing.

[@charlien6123]

This leads to the bad ending

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

there is no bad ending.

[@charlien6123]

Crimson flower is the bad ending