EDGE BITE EXPLAINED AND MORE EDGE TALK

[@daven.7685]

Seriously, though, this explanation of edge bite says A LOT more than the thousands of knife reviews we see of knives successfully cutting paper with the grain! How many have we recently seen of the Chevalier cutting paper and reviews claiming how “slicey” the blade is, or worse yet, how slicey the blade will be? After seeing the tube bounce away from the Chevalier unscathed, it makes me wonder if this knife will be efficient for anything other than utility cuts. Jared, thank you for this excellent explanation and demonstration!

[@NeevesKnives]

It just needs a new edge. The knife after Tomarrow will have incredible bite

[@spyhunter6411]

I watch a lot of sharpening videos and channels, and try something of it myself. Your channel impressed me when I first found it and continues to do so years later. I have never seen someone both explain and illustrate sharpness in this way.

[@SeemsLogical]

You should make an excel spread sheet and use that sheet with many of the steels you sharpen and what grit you recommend sharpening up to for said steel. I know you'll say heat treat factors into the mix and other qualities of who made the steel and when so maybe differentiate what company made that steel since it's a safe bet that within the same company they are grinding and heat treating the same steel under the same tolerances. It would be a lot of work and a continuous "work in progress" project, but something that would prove invaluable to people in the knife community as it's something we would reuse and refer to. Might be worth planning out if you feel it's a wise use of your time and knowledge. Edit: I should probably give an example of what I am talking about. CPM S90v (Spyderco Kapara): 16 degree angle, 2000 grit finish S35vn (Kizer Shamshir): 15 degree angle, 1800 grit finish 154CM (QSP Gannet): 16 degree angle, 3000 grit finish Something like that but with numbers done by an expert and not me randomly guessing.

[@jdemeter4357]

I have been looking into where to find that exact same thing, if anyone has a list even similar I am interested

[@NeevesKnives]

I Definitely will, the one I did already is out dated

[@Krusher_Knave]

I would love to see this as well!

[@Smatnm]

@@NeevesKnives See if you can do it as an app for a phone and charge a nominal amount for it……”If you’re good at something, never do it for free”

[@garykennedy66]

Jared, this information is absolutely necessary for those of us just learning all this stuff....it would be amazing if you would make a spec sheet with all the different steels...you are one of the few people that could do it...I would be willing to pay for your time...

[@NeevesKnives]

👊

[@colosse83]

Keep doing that type of content! It sets you apart from the dozen of table top "reviewers". Awesome content !

[@azraell33]

Interesting video. I gave up on polished edges because some wouldn't have any bite. They would shave the hair off your arm but just didnt cut good. Thats why I usually sharpen my pocket knives with a very course stone and then use a very fine stone to smooth it out just a little at around 20 degrees. Consistently gives a good bite. Field knives and choppers get a little more angle.

[@Sumatra123]

You’re right about the polished edges.

[@tonycanniffe2360]

Pretty much what I do.

[@kabes1776]

It also depends on the amount of pressure you're sharpening with when going highly refined/polished.

[@sweetdrahthaar7951]

Saw the short and I’m glad to see this video as an in depth continuation. Very interesting content. Thanks for this one. I appreciate it. 👍🏻

[@michaell397]

I've really got to hand it to ya. Finally someone actually understands bite. I gave up years ago on BF as to even suggest such a thing was hearsay. No on argued against it more than the famed CF who claimed to be a trained metallurgist, when in fact, he only went to a trade school and had no degree even though he told everyone who would listen the opposite. One well known professional sharpener I spoke to recently had No understanding of edge bite whatsoever. He was only interested in push cut performance. He stated that 99 percent of all his knife use was with push cuts only. In 47 years of professional Knife Making, I can think of very-very few actual uses for push cuts other than cutting vegetables and impressing people cutting paper. Neither which work in everyday hard use activities. I get a little tired of every single sharpener showing how well the blade/edge with cut paper. Even a dull knife can cut paper. It is mostly a useless showing used by barkers at trade shows to impress the general public who have no idea it is just for show, and mostly meaningless. Sadly, it has become expected. Sure a push cut will do well on rope when the rope is on a surface and the blade pushed into it. However, this isn't cutting. It is cleaving. Known in industry as shearing. Try that in an emergency with thick rope with nothing to place the rope on. The polished edge of most types of steel with simply slide right off the rope with no or very little cutting happening. Much like a bearing, it simply slides off the work. Oddly enough, things in the outdoors do not come with cutting boards to allow simple push cuts. A edge has to be able to preform in any number of environments and materials. An edge with bite will do exactly that. Bite into the work much faster and deeper. That is what an outdoorsman's knife is supposed to do. Whether skinning game, cutting rope, strapping, trimming limbs, making a fire stick, or many other every day chores. There are in like all things, exception to this. Particularly high vanadium steels. these can many times excel in both arenas. But it it is rare! This is where understanding bite makes a huge difference! For years, I had people at knife shows pick up one of my knives and first thing they would do was see of it would cut arm hair. The next thing they would do is blead on m table cloth. Often throwing the knife down in the process. Many of them worth several thousands of dollars and hitting other knives and causing damage in the process. I leaned to use the pure green chrome, no grit compound to put a screaming shaving sharp edge on the knives for table duty. they would cut and split hair like a straight razor, but had NO bite and would cut almost nothing other than paper or a push cut. Saved a lot of money on table cloths, damaged high end knives, not to mention super glue. LOL! ;

[@trlarosa]

I’d love to see a video or reference for which grit to optimally use for different steels. Peace!

[@NeevesKnives]

👊

[@OGBladeReviews]

You're the"Wizard of the Edge," my friend. 👍👊🗡️ I've noticed all these aspects of edges over the years, but can't say I've learned how to produce a fine toothy edge on every blade. My favorite factory edges are TwoSun 14C and Spyderco S30V...

[@NeevesKnives]

Great steels

[@toddcarr.]

Awesome explanation and demonstration of different sharpening levels, edge geometry, and what Bite in an edge is. For me when I'm sharpening a knife for the first time I always progress through my stones until the edge looses its bite then I return to the previous stone where I still had bite. After a few sharpenings at that finall grit I will try it up one grit level to see because edges can sometimes improve after the first couple of sharpenings once you get into the "good steel" or Past a possible "Burnt edge". That is just my method though as you can have two identical knives with the same steel but that heat treat may be off by a couple of points. example a 59hrc can be very different from a 61 or 62hrc when sharpening the same steel. Thanks for the great vid Jerad and keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable.

[@Krozin]

This is awesome, really appreciate you working through this stuff in this form for everyone. I feel like from watching videos, experience so far with a few steels, but not a lot with sharpening you have prepared me a bit more. Good reinforcement on angles too. I think it would be awesome to do some more bite tests with various steels or try some others, but it makes a lot of sense about 154 you explained. Eventually someone needs to figure out ballpark best angles and grits for different steels. How do manufacturers decide would be interesting to me. Or do they mostly 15-20 degrees at 600 grit? Hardness really makes consistent testing difficult without knowing hardness. Larrin Thomas has gotten me here and you have brought me a little closer to a larger understanding on bite. Thank You

[@NeevesKnives]

Thank you I appreciate you watching, most edges come around 22 to 25 ° Sharpening them at 17° increases a lot of performance and 600 grit is a well rounded edge for most steels

[@MrMZaccone]

Different steels with differences in heat treatment can tolerate different angles. I disagree that it's about polish. One of the problems most encountered is the misunderstanding of what stropping is all about and why, when, and how it should be used in the first place. Proper deburring at a microscopic level is the final arbiter of "sharp". It can also be about the kind of abrasives used to sharpen and there is such a thing as carbide tear out. Sharpness is about unit pressure ... period. It's not about "teeth". The variables that go into unit pressure, however, are myriad. Scanning Electron Microscopy can provide an understanding of what's going on at a microscopic level. The work of Dr. Vadim Kraichuk is very useful in understanding this.

[@EdgeStoneKnives]

Can you add a quick and dirty list (maybe 10-20 steels) to the description of which are best with which type of edge? Doesn't need to be crazy detailed but would be invaluable to me and many others! Of course, this would be assuming everything else is done correctly (e.g., heat treat, sharpening, deburring, etc.). Maybe the most popular ~15 steels broken down into 3 categories: retains max bite with med grit edge, mirror polished edge, and mirror polished but loses it fast.

[@NeevesKnives]

Thats tough, I plan on making a video soon there's variables, I do already have a video, but as I said I would change a few, 600 grit is great on just about everything

[@bamaninja929]

Thanks for the info..I've learned a lot from watching your vids keep up the good work👍🗡✌

[@unfi6798]

Yes please, redo the assessment of blade stell & heat treatment. Cheers matey.

[@gaberoo9099]

Great talk. Yes, a video on how to determine if you have a good heat treat would be excellent! Gabe (HomeSlice) does a novel dual grind where he sharpens one side at a lower grit and the other at a higher grit giving a lot of edge retention, but i don't know how you maintain this long run (I'm guessing you have to alternate sides otherwise the angles get lop-sided?). He got very interesting results with this method. Also, supporting your view on the importance of heat treat, he got great cutting/edge retention results from a VG10 Fallkniven fixed blade (compared to two high-carbon steel knives: cold steel and...Bark River?) despite the fallkniven having a relatively lower hardness (59 Rockwell?). Complex topic. Thanks for presenting. Look forwards to your video on heat treat!

[@NeevesKnives]

Interesting

[@jslaughterofthesoul4939]

Excellent presentation! Appreciate you, brother! Would love to see your updated take on steels

[@dazingoth783]

What is the better steel for a knife to hold its edge really good but not spending 100’s of dollars?

[@NJRey]

I NEEDED THIS IN MY LIFE!

[@kevinmain9882]

Thank you for explaining it so well

[@zactwhite]

So for instance if I was sharpening s35vn at 600 would I always finish off with a strop ? And to maintain the edge just keep using a strop or should I wait for it to dull out and hit it with the 600 ? Cheers

[@JMcConnell]

I’d love to see you update your what grits for what steels video. Loved the original and I’d be really curious to see how your opinion has changed.

[@NeevesKnives]

👊

[@paulmccarthy8658]

I would like to see this examination applied to the CRKT folding Hissatsu

[@13aphomet]

Great content Jered.. You're an edge master!!

[@iggy1397]

Feel like you make me smarter all the time. Thanks for generously sharing your experience 👍🏻

[@NeevesKnives]

#banggang live noon central tomarrow

[@Mridgwell]

Great video,, Appreciate the drag test now I'll be chasing that bite. Thanks Neeves keep Killin it !

[@wojciechk50]

Very educational video. This is exactly what I needed :) edit - you are so right about cpm 154, I have Kershaw launch 10 in this steel and I was surprised how slick the edge was, it was sharp but so slick. I managed to put some bite on it tho, not too much but enough for me.

[@1d3d4f5s2d]

I assume carbide size and volume are the main variables here. Larger carbides would likely lead to more bite and retaining more bite at higher grits.

[@00corin00]

Please remake that video about your opinion on steel. Most of my knives are S35VN. I would love to know what grit to stop sharpening them at. Thank you.

[@NeevesKnives]

👊

[@Tywno]

I think sharpness of a blade is a relative concept. It's all about the material properties of the blade and the object being cut. For a blade to be sharp, you have to maximize the shear force in the object being cut, without exceeding the force at which the blade plastically deforms (or worse).

[@Doug-do7ge]

Yeah would love an updated video on steels

[@NeevesKnives]

👊

[@Jorge-ft9oh]

17:33 What is that knife? It looks pretty, and also expensive

[@NeevesKnives]

Sharp by design tempest

[@jonathan1065]

What’s a good grit stone? My knife already has an edge, it just needs to be sharpened. The blade is made from cold steel.

[@NeevesKnives]

You should have multiple you have to start with a coarse stone, 300 grit or less. Watch my step by step freehand Sharpening video

[@kenfaulkner5544]

I love all this knowledge you are passing on to us! So much to learn about knives in general but you really e plain the sharpening aspects very well, even I can understand it. 🤣

[@NeevesKnives]

#banggang live Tomarrow at 12 pm central 👊

[@mostlyfoldersabitofeveryth1989]

Wow that thumbnail. Really nice shot of a really nice edge

[@chrishinkle5982]

Thanks for the info great video bud

[@barkingspider2007]

Excellent video... Would like to second the request for a spreadsheet on your "Grit Preferences" by steel type and blade type. for Example PM2 Maxamet, K390, M390 , Para 3 same, Hard use knives, Bench Made 940 or other thicker blade stock (Griptillion etc) I have had good success with dual grit edges.. 240 \ Mirror. Has bite and lasts long K390 responds well.

[@iampkhacker]

i've noticed alot the exotic hc steels have good to great bite polished and alot of stainless polished i can get insanely sharp polished have nothing for bite. the m390 family is an explain of no bite, i suspect it's because of grain structure, it's so fine. but 4v is pretty fine grained so i'm not sure, not metallurgist so my understanding is pretty basic off what i can think of to look for or test for with different things.

[@brentjacobs7083]

Always thought of 14c28n as budget steel. If it’s so good why isn’t it in any premium production knives? Just wondering.

[@r6201sk]

well it is budget steel when it comes to price but has well balanced attributes .. good retention, easy to sharpen, takes well low angles, stainless ... pretty much perfect steel for EDC in certain price range ...

[@tomj0008]

With stropping "gunny juice", stopping at a lower grit say 400 or 800 venev "my kme stones", then starting with 3um. Is it better to stop at the 3um or keep going 1um, .25um, 0.1um? To keep the toothyness. As a working edge.

[@NeevesKnives]

It depends on the steel and heat treatment, over stropping is problem and is more likely to happen, if you have de burred good and your apex is clean then you wouldn't necessarily need or want to continue Strop through a progression unless you want to finish to look more polished, and it can likely take away the bite your looking for

[@tizben]

What kind of angle and grit should I leave benchmates m4, I've heard that m4 likes a toothy edge

[@darnellb85]

Great review 👏👌👍

[@nOObels1]

Best edge for cpm 154,XHP, S35VN and 3V?

[@Mapleaple]

All my kitchen knifes are sharpened by a worksharp ken onion. But the convex edge to a butter smooth polish rolls off of veggies when cutting. But it cuts paper like butter. I hate it

[@brentjacobs7083]

What’s your favorite steel Jared?

[@NeevesKnives]

Cruwear, k390, magnacut, 14c28n, elmax, vanax, 20cv, and a few others like s90v, m4, considering they are all heat treated correctly

[@pedromiguel3227]

Anyone out there have any advice for S30V steel? I’ve been having a tough time getting a burr on my old GRIPTILIAN 553. It held it’s edge for a long time with minimal touch ups.

[@Zlyon8181]

Doesn’t the angle of the grind lines (from sliding on a stone from base of blade to the tip) have alot to do with bite? //////>

[@NeevesKnives]

Yes it has everything to do with it, it's like a saw blade, but there's a lot of variables that lead to it having good bite or no bite

[@johnemmons9087]

Just found your channel. Don’t know why it never came up because I’ve watched blade videos for years on u tube. Very interesting and thorough which is what I like with edged tools. My question is, do you do anything with swords? I can not find any quality informational video’s on the real science of edge geometry for swords. And what you talked about in this video- edge bite- is exactly what I want to know with working swords. Especially katana and Jians for things like cutting tatami mats or bamboo. Can you please help with this? Producing a biting edge consistently along the entire edge of a swords blade. Thank you. Guaranteed a video like that would get many many views over time.

[@NeevesKnives]

I haven't, atleast yet, I've done videos on kukuri blades authentic ones, but not swords, although all the information will still be the same, you should check out Joe From (steel forged in fire) his channel is mostly swords and he's been on my podcast

[@johnemmons9087]

@@NeevesKnives thank you for your prompt response! Yes I believe that the grit size is similar. The big challenge is how to sharpen a loooong blade with the consistent angle. Most can “slap” an edge on a sword that will cut but like I watched you demonstrate, even on a small blade 4” and under, you try and achieve a perfect angle because it’s just who we are! So thank you and I’ll look him up. God bless and protect you.

[@NeevesKnives]

@@johnemmons9087 you can do incredible Sharpening with a Ken onion work sharp with practice, if I was going to sharpen a sword freehand I would do it in sections over a couple days or a few hours depending

[@Techsupportguy111]

Yeah please redo the steel video, would love to hear your new opinions on that bro.

[@Practical3DP]

On the subject of Maxamet. I recently acquired it. Put a nice edge on it with a 400grit Venev bonded diamond stone. However, I wasn’t sure if it should be finished on diamond strop. Typically I used 6,3,1 gunny juice after I finish on my 1200 Venev. How do you feel about finishing on a diamond strop, with a medium grit edge on a steel like Maxamet?

[@NeevesKnives]

I think that's great you should definitely finish on a diamond Strop, you might not need to do a progression unless your happy with it, but just cleaning up on one after Sharpening would be great

[@blacklisted4885]

I have a D2 blade that is lethal. I use finger tip test to detect bite

[@NeevesKnives]

👍

[@TyMalhoneson]

Please redo that steel video. I would love to hear your updated opinions

[@NeevesKnives]

👍

[@jordandavis2334]

What's a good edge to put on n690 steel on a kizer Begleiter mini in your opinion? Thanks

[@NeevesKnives]

600 grit at 17°

[@jordandavis2334]

I really appreciate the advice and am loving the channel thanks

[@jasonanderson7020]

i need some information on s45vn, can anyone shed some light on that steel when it comes to bite and grit? my para3 is in need of sharpening.

[@gaberoo9099]

Yes, please re-do that video. Still watching...

[@NeevesKnives]

👍

[@jeffjuice3886]

The one steel I have used the most that seems to lose it as soon as you breath on it, is vg-10. I can get it super sharp easily, which is a plus, but I jizz on it wrong and you'd think my boys had hammers equipped with the way vg-10 loses its "scary sharp" feel.

[@NeevesKnives]

😆 🤣

[@sativothegrail461]

I recently got a Buck 112 and damn the 420 hc bites very strong, and it takes 1 minute to resharpen, I love it so much it's my new edc (I have like a 100 knifes so I know what I need for my work). I cut boxes and cardboard all day at my boutique and it's not failing, just goes through. I have a bunch of other knives, most of them are very good, but the ones I have in S35V and Elmax are not that great, they don't have that bite I'm looking for. I have used plenty of steels, and had a few chips with very expensive powdered steel just after testing the knife on cardboard (benchmade, spyderco, ZT and a few more), and it makes me so angry, I don't like to resharpen a knife that just came out of the box because of some chipping 🤬🤬 Surprisingly I never had chips with D2, 440C, VG10, 12c27, 1095 etc My job is to sell knife and the more I know the more I figure that super steels are useless, it's just marketing and advertising. You may need super steels in heavy industries or whatever, but for a pocket knifes you don't. I like super steels don't get me wrong! my favorite is S30V because it has an insane bite, and very easy to sharpen, M4 also has an insane bite. Edge geometry and heat treat is way more important than the type of steel.

[@NeevesKnives]

There are alot of differences between steels, and you can't have one or even 2 or 3 steels and paint all steels with the same number or name as the one you have, heat treatment can be difficult on some steels, some were not made for large batch production. So what you find is a poor quality version of that steel that's not heat treated to its potential, just because you can find m390 for 80$ doesn't mean it will be the way m390 is supposed to be, some steels require a custom heat treatment, some production companies are running the steel soft I could name a lot, spyderco does a good job with their heat treatments especially in the last 2 years. You would probably really like 14c28n steel as it's very easy for companies to heat treat, civivi is especially doing a great job with it. But unless you have tried a certain steel from a company that actually heat treats it's properly don't think that is how that steel is supposed to be. Also depending on what you are looking for in a steel then there are certain steels that fit that criteria, like bite if bite is what you are looking for then you are looking for certain steels with a properly done heat treatment at a specific hrc, like 14c28n, cruwear, k390, magnacut at 63 hrc or better, m390 above 62 hrc, cts xhp, 4v, exc.. but even at a good hrc they need also a quality heat treatment, but certain steels are going to be super in a different way than what you might be looking for

[@heyman1501]

Yeah all you guys do is confuse me with all that talk. I cut some plastic, packaging tape,open mail, and cut some food. Great review Jerad! I'll be in the live tonight.

[@shawnsullivan1365]

Anyone think a Spyderco Para2 Tanto for 339 is a good buy now?

[@NeevesKnives]

I personally would rather have the drop point regular shape it's much more useful

[@shawnsullivan1365]

@@NeevesKnives But for investment, seeing as they dont make em anymore?

[@daven.7685]

There are two accepted pronunciations of “Chevalier”. One is the French pronunciation of “Sheh-vol-yay”, as in the name of the famous French actor Maurice Chevalier. The other is the Anglicized pronunciation of “Shev-a-leer”. Regardless, a Chevalier is a knight, or chivalrous man.

[@jjrossitee]

Chevy Cavalier...Civivi Chevalier... potato potahtoe.

[@danielwasused]

i think this video made it a little more confusing for me😂 but at the same time i gained more clarity on the topic for certain things at the same time if that makes sense

[@NeevesKnives]

Yeah I get it, over time the information will stick more and more, basically bite boils down to the grit and angle you put on a specific steel, some do better at different grits than others, lower angles always help

[@breezeratchford6527]

You can join the membership and get access to live sharpening and get personalized sharpening lessons if you join the higher level. Check it out Bang Gang

[@budgetbladereview1012]

Bang!

[@reidspeed77]

Well cool az always 🦘💥

[@ronbashop1177]

CHEVALIER, French for chivalrous man - che-va-le-ay. My insurance agent has that last name.

[@NeevesKnives]

Well now you know what to get him come holidays

[@davidpyper82]

Thickness behind edge

[@Nick-lm5lz]

If it doesn't bite it means it doesn't cut

[@nolobede]

Shev-all-yay

[@NeevesKnives]

Chevrolet lol

[@kennethboucher7663]

Chevalier? Sha-val-yay