Edgepro Diamond Matrix Stone Review: Yeah... That's the Ticket!

Here's the link to the Diamond Matrix Stones page of the Edgepro website:
www.edgeproinc.com/sharpening...

[@CGSW]

Thank you for the video but I would like to say a few things if I may. First I came up with and make the Matrix stones for EP so I am pretty familiar with them. You REALLY NEED to get an 80 and 250, like any set of stones they work much better when used as a set, as in your first stone should be from the set. OHHHHH, don't use sandpaper on them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is why they are wearing out sooooo fast for you. EP sharpens around 50 knives a week and their 2300 and 4000 stones wear .002"-.004" a year. I measure them with my digital calipers once a year and engrave the thickness and date on the back to keep track of this. These stones are very sensitive to how they are dressed, the loose Alox on a flat plate is by far the best way to dress them, especially for how well they cut steel when you are sharpening knives. I have never found any Alox contaminating a Matrix stone after dressing, just scrub clean with your finger and clean water and your good to go. The diamond is super sharp and doesn't need much pressure, the less you use the longer they will go between dressings and the longer they will last. The grit progression is designed for 10 edge trailing strokes using light pressure to no pressure per 3" of knife blade then move on, if you need more then either your angle is not repeating or you didn't do enough with the last grit. If it is a fresh dress then probably 6 strokes is plenty. The finer the grit the less pressure you should use. I came up with this sharpening several knives and inspecting the progress under a microscope. If your stone thickness is off more than .015" then the angle will not repeat well enough for 10 strokes. We only made 10 of the 6500 stones to sell. The finer the grit the fussier they are about using and keeping clean. Depending on your steel your best polish is with either the 2300, 4000, or 6500, and hardly any like the 6500 so EP dropped it. We think that for nearly everyone selling the 6500 would be a disservice. For going past the 4000 your better off with a strop, it's what I do. The Matrix stones work real well to dress Shapton Glass stones and vice versa. It doesn't matter what grit Matrix stone is used on a Shapton Glass, it will not affect the finish of the SG stone. I have a couple pages to go but will stop now. Thanks again for your review. I don't mean to be pushy or intrusive, just informative. These stones are not perfect so how they are used and maintained will make a big difference in what you think of them.

[@TheApostleP]

CGPM I appreciate the insight. I’ll try to put to use your instructions. Thanks!

[@D00MTR33]

Some interesting stuff here, thanks. I've been saving up to upgrade to these from my regular EP stones. I have a few questions for you about the them if don't mind. 1. What's the best way to clean them? Just use Alox powder on glass or is that for flattening? I used a 8k nagura and/or Rust erasers on my ceramic and Venev diamond stones. Would either be ok for the Edge Pro diamond matrix stones. 2. You said to use edge trailing strokes with these. Are you not supposed use edge leading or back and forth strokes with these? 3. You mentioned using Shapton glass to dress these works well. What about Shapton Pro stones? I have a set of Shapton Pro's for free hand sharpening and it would be nice if it's possible to dress the EP diamond stones on them. Thank you for your time and information.

[@CGSW]

Glad to help, these stones are different with different needs. 1. Rubbing alcohol and a paper towel to clean, the stronger the alcohol the better, please don't use other solvents as some will attack the resin. Next is to dress a stone with the Matrix stone, you can dress two stones at once this way as long as your standard stone is pretty flat, takes about 15 seconds of rubbing the two together in a figure 8 pattern. Dressing them with the alox on a flat plate will remove the resin bond and will flatten them the fastest. When I have tried to remove some thickness from one end of a stone it takes about 1-2 minutes of dressing to remove .001" of stone with the 250 being the slowest. I dress the 80 grit stone with coarse sand, even the 60 grit sic is too fine for them, the 80 is a beast. If you are just trying to clean up areas with smaller abrasive stones, Nagura or rust eraser, you may wear those areas down so I wouldn't do this too often. 2. Until I apex I use back and forth strokes. When I look at the apex under my microscope while I am sharpening I find that edge leading strokes are more prone to microchipping than edge trailing, and the microchips will scratch the bevel. How much this matters not only depends on the steel but how old the edge is. If you just keep touching it up it weakens over normal use, no steeling, and is more prone to microchipping than if you ground it back with a coarse stone to get to fresh steel. A big influence on me for edge trailing passes is the Sience of Sharp blog with those SEM photos. 3. I haven't followed up with this enough but any stone that isn't diamond will work, as long as it is flat. Working up a little slurry will wear/clean the resin stone more than keeping it washed off. Keep in mind that over time the two could get out of flat and still clean up all stone surfaces making it look like they are flat. Loose abrasive on a flat plate is the best way to flatten any stone, at least at home. 7/2/20 update: After a lot of playing around with this I have concluded that dressing these stones with loose abrasive is the only way to do it, nothing else is close. Alcohol works very well at removing the steel residue but as long as you keep them wet when in use and lightly scrub them with a finger after use they stay clean enough between dressings.

[@D00MTR33]

@@CGSW Thank you for the information, that was very helpful.

[@atonenjr]

@@CGSW Will silicon carbide powder flatten the stones on a lapping plate? Or does it have to be aluminium oxide? Thanks.

[@PNW_Cole]

Picked up the full line of matrix in December and love them. I've only ever used rubbing alcohol to remove the loading, and it works great for me

[@giovanieeugenio7489]

did not know about the alcohol. what else do people use to remove the metal?

[@gerardvanengelen9001]

I have used them for a year now and everything you said I recognize.

[@edkubinski]

Thank you very much for this video. Saved me a lot of headaches.👍

[@MetalEffort]

I've been using these, Michael Elmer tipped me off to them. I like them a lot, but I don't have anything to compare them to seeing as these were my first.

[@e.t.preppin7084]

I only wish you would have shared this with us earlier. Btw your sink looks just like mine (dirty). I have to clean mine often. Thanks so much for this video. I can’t wait to order my new stones!!!

[@tcj2185]

I only have the 4000 right now and love it. It polishes almost as good as my Sigma 13k. Think I’m going to get the full set, I love my Sigma pro’s but they wear a lot faster than these. I’m also debating on the Venev OCB stones.

[@valebliz]

Got the 650, 1100 and 2300 and i'm very happy with them. Now I'm waiting for a 5000 CBN resin bonder from practical sharpening, curious to see how it is.

[@NORTHWESTKNIFEGUY]

Great review! I tried the 2300 & 4000 matrix stones a while back and while the results wern't quite as nice as the tapes they were pretty close. Matrix stones are defiantly much cheaper compared to the tapes in the long run.

[@HeartsXoXd]

I have the Diamond Matrix 2300 and 4000. I also have a tape blank I use for the 6000 tape. I use the diamond matrix and then finish with the 6000 tape and it is amazing. If I want an edge the best I can get it I use the 2000 tape, the 2 diamonds, then the 6000 tape and then a mounted balsa wood strip with fine compound, then strip on a polishing compound on my leather strip. It is a bit of work, so I don't do it every time.

[@f00manchu77]

Really great, thanks for sharing!

[@argentina1174]

Hands down, Edge Pro is the best, I have tried every stone out there, but the Edge Pro is the Rolls Royce in getting your knifes sharpen. Great video.

[@georgeyoung4292]

No its not.. Andhere is why.. 1. The edge pro stones are made in Russia by Boride! 2. They ask twice the price for half the abrasives and 3. If you really tried all you would rate edge pro as the underdog compare with stones like Venev or Poltava!!! Yourewelcome

[@davidr6856]

@@georgeyoung4292 You're talking about the stones, not the device. The EP is a very capable sharpening jig. I don't see how it can be "the best" when there are all kinds of knives and different opinions. It works well. More importantly to me, there are dozens of stones available for the EP. Nobody ever said the stock EP stones were the best stones available. They are more than adequate for most steels.

[@georgeyoung4292]

@@davidr6856 1. Edge Pro is crap. (I have tried and still own 4platforms -EP, KME, DMT and finally TSPROF and the last one is 30years ahead🙏(In material , precision and the performance) 2. EP stock stones may work for the steels you use but if you are earning on sharpening like i do and on the steels i work with , you are sunk, waste of time and energy🙏 I will break it down like this , everything that edge sell is mediocre AT BEST.. Im sharpening many years and i tried basically everything in therms of abrasives like Chosera , Shapton , Suehiro, Venev etc. and its incomparable with anything from edge pro (Except DM stones witch i still love but Venev is superior (The have 2times more abrasives for half the price and they are faster and give better edge)... Dont hate me for the facts and you can criticise me after you try all the things i mentioned and then form objective opinion...

[@davidr6856]

@@georgeyoung4292 I generally use bench stones, but I also have used several jig sharpeners. Any jig is just a way to secure a knife at a given angle relative to the stones. The edge still comes down to knowledge of sharpening, skill, and stones. The jig is almost irrelevant if you're using it correctly. If you can't get a good edge off the EP, that's on you, not the tool. The other jigs I've used are clamped systems. They're good, but very different from the EP. Nobody ever said the stock EP stones were the best stones you could get. They certainly aren't intended for high carbide steels. After trying most of the EP compatible diamond stones out there I can say the EP stones are the best for me. Your opinion is obviously different. I have Venev, Shapton, and others. Thanks for your opinion. I'm sure the crappy steels I'm sharpening don't measure up.

[@georgeyoung4292]

@@davidr6856 I didnt say i can get good edge on EP!!! I said its not economical to use stock edge pro stones cause sharpening knife made from k390 or M4 its gonna take half day and its not worth.. Thats what i meant by "its not working for me" Second issue i have with edge pro brand , boride offers 6mm of abrasives EP 3mm for the same price , Venev offers 3mm for the half of the price of EP 1.6mm EP DM .. 3rd its 200$ jig made from f.. ing plastic while i can get jig made from aluminium and steel for 250$..Dont turn my words into something they are not and i gave you the facts not opinion!!! Basically what im saying there a lot better systems for the price!!!

[@ScotWalt858]

Nicely done. Thanks

[@7togethr]

Great information, thank you!

[@alexanderbertallo1995]

Ty for the advices...

[@thechemtrailkid]

I'me very interested in these stones. I've come from a KME and WE and like using diamond plates, especially after they've broken in, but never felt super satisfied that the diamond plates would often have a noticeable concavity or convexity to them; minor, but there. I still use CKTG 140 and 400 for setting bevels. I might give the 2300 and 4000 a shot after my polish tapes run out.

[@davidr6856]

No comparison. Using the CKTG 140 is like dragging your edge over boulders compared to these stones. These don't leave those terrible deep scratches like surface mounted diamonds do. I won't touch my knives to diamond plates after trying these.

[@floridasaltlife]

Top shelf ultra helpful video !!

[@travisthejiu-jitsuguy3743]

@TheApostleP When I got mine back from Cody at edge pro, I found that on the CPM 20cv the edge finish was still very polished but slightly toothy like the diamonds created Micro fissures in the surface of the Apex. Have you found the same on some Apex's? This after cut test, resulted in a knife that bit easily into highly engineered climbing rope and after still whittled hair. I have yet to look at it on the micro scope in the lab better yet consult a materials engineer on the surface.

[@Hosscoller]

I would be very interested to see you flatten your stones.... and the tools you use

[@Tisirfall]

I bought the 250, 650, 1100 and 2300 matrix stones. They're great, I have mostly premium knife steels in my collection nowadays and these stones are quite a game changer. Sharpening my 940 in s90v has become quite easy and with better results then any other stones I own. M390 also becomes even easier with superb results. The same goes for cruwear. Great tip on the sandpaper cleaning, I had to figure that out myself earlier. I still haven't used it on hap40 or the old regular s30v but I expect great results too. They're more expensive but they last long, I've been running them through 10 supersteel knives but still haven't had to flatten them and they cut very nice.

[@sanhxhebsbbb1048]

Do not use sand paper use the I said, propyl alcohol like it says, if you sandpaper, you will absolutely ruin those very expensive stones

[@davidapplewhite8434]

I’ve got a full set of matrix stones. I’m very happy so far!

[@czwest7845]

Do yo use the 80 much?

[@davidr6856]

@@czwest7845 Not the person you asked, but I use mine to reprofile edges all the time. If you don't change your edge angles or fix damage, you can get by without it. Resetting the edge on high carbide steels with the 250 is a long process. 80 is the way to go. I have reprofiled every one of the Spyderco Mule steels (except the damasteel one), and many other edges. You'll want the 80 if you're doing a lot of cutting.

[@cmartell98]

Clean the stones load-up with paper towel(s) wet with isopropyl alcohol. I have 4 grits, which still look new after several dozen of sharpenings. Value/performance ratio is in my experience unequalled, truly exceptional!

[@markscearse8391]

What process do you use to clean aluminum oxide stones?

[@allansmith5554]

George I love youre video. I have used the pro some in the last 5 years , but have never been able to produce a burr on a knife that Dale says is the sign to move uo to a the next grit. I sent Dale a knife for him to sharpen and he left a burr on the last 1' on the heel so to learn . but did not help.me. I can slice paper ,but not cleanly. You seem to have hundreds of hours sharpening on the edge pro. What am I doing wrong? any tips would be awesome Thanks Allan

[@davidr6856]

If you're not getting a burr you're not sharpening enough to get one or you're not hitting the apex. With a course stone you should get a burr very quickly on most steels. Put sharpie on the edge, let it dry, and sharpen. Then check with a loupe that the ink is removed all the way to the edge.

[@jamessagerjr7369]

Wondering if there are diamond stones for the edge pro that can be used dry, like the wicked edge. Anyone know of any ? If not I guess I’ll give this matrix stones a try. Seems to require little less water. Thanks

[@claytonbigsby6975]

whats the best angle to sharpen a buck 110

[@Streamerbean]

If you had to get one stone to start with for maintenance sharpening which one would you recommend as far as grit size?

[@davidr6856]

If you can only have one get the 650. I would not try to reprofile with it. 650 + a strop will give you an excellent edge.

[@dudestuff3352]

Rob, I use the EdgePro system, where are you getting these assessor y stones?

[@case4444]

www.edgeproinc.com/sharpening-accessories/diamond-matrix-sharpening-stones-c11/

[@e.t.preppin7084]

Maybe someone will come up with some similar sandpaper for convex sharpening.

[@winstonvkoot]

just use a stone

[@J84727]

Been using the 250 and 650 for a few months now, learned that there is just 1 rule: NO PRESSURE.

[@giovanieeugenio7489]

thanks for that . Seems like a good tip.

[@saiiiiiii1]

How good is the edge off the 650? Would you go higher for EDC knives?

[@J84727]

@@saiiiiiii1 Depends on what you use the edc for. Box cutting? 250. Tomato slicing? 1100.

[@davidr6856]

@@J84727 Completely agree. I like the 650 edge a lot. 1100 is probably my go-to most of the time. Higher grits are good as well, but I like a toothier edge. I usually strop after my last stone, whatever it is.

[@GingrBreadMan]

guessing the 6k matrix didn't make it past prototypeing

[@CuchillosyTecnicasdeAfilado]

Where did you got the Shapton glass for that size? I can’t find them. Thanks.

[@Will-jd2br]

chefknivestogo has shapton glass edge pro stones. I use them and they are quite fast.

[@wadepage7809]

Would a piece of 3M cloth be as effective as the worn out sandpaper for cleaning? Any reason not to use the 3M in your opinion?

[@TheApostleP]

Wade Page Pretty much any medium abrasive will work.

[@darichard11]

Hate to disagree, but I would not use sandpaper. The guy who makes these stones said using sandpaper will wear these out prematurely. AlOx power with water for very little time is the prescribed method. A slurry with water and a few seconds per stone is all you need for these. I would not use Ajax on these either. I clean mine with alcohol and paper towels after every use. Mine never get a dirty as the ones shown in this vid. I flatten them with the AlOx powder after every 10-15 sharpenings.

[@allansmith5554]

Hi.. David R' Sorry', 'I got your name wrong. My last attempt with the edgepro on a Bob Kramer 8' chef knife. Started with a 220 stone . At 14 degrees after checking with a Sharpie , ten passes on each side for ten times , but no bur , then Frustrated moved thru 400 grit, 600 grit and 1000 grit. then a leather strop. Same method , Ten passess each side. But No bur. Are my stones clogged up with metal ? its sharp but not as sharp as it should be. thanks for your help advice. Allan

[@michaell397]

If your getting a sharp edge without developing a burr, be thankful. A bur is nothing more than wasting steel. A lot of very hard steels do no bur unless using too much pressure or too course of a stone or both at the same time. KnifeMaker

[@eugeneBai]

Is it possible to use them with oil? Thx for review!

[@TheApostleP]

SollerS There is no reason you would use oil on these stones.

[@mattevangels9384]

What system are you using?

[@enxm.gnxy.4925]

Would these work on modern day super steels? (s90v, m4, 20CV, 204p, 4v, m390)

[@TheApostleP]

Kiing Nothing They’re specifically made for those steels, although they work very well on conventional steels too.

[@enxm.gnxy.4925]

TheApostleP interesting. I want them now but man, I might have to buy a few stones now & a few later. Any recommendations on what to use after these stones to polish the edge? (Strops or higher grit stones/polishing tapes?)

[@TheApostleP]

Kiing Nothing I use 2.0 and 0.5 micron diamond on strops after the 2300 matrix stone.

[@enxm.gnxy.4925]

TheApostleP this comes as a paste & you just apply it to a blank leather strop, correct? (Apologies for all the questions. Still a novice!)

[@TheApostleP]

Kiing Nothing There are a variety of sprays, pastes and emulsions. But yes, on leather.

[@profd65]

Which system is superior, the Edge Pro or the KME?

[@chris-ij4vc]

Edge pro by far.

[@sputumtube]

You mentioned sharpening re-curve blades. This will probably be the stupidest question you've ever been asked, but is there such a thing as a sharpening stone with slight curve (rather than flat) for the specific purpose of sharpening re-curve blades..?

[@winstonvkoot]

for recurve either use somthing like a spyderco sharpmaker, or the edges of your sharpening stones. or use a rounded stone, triangle, or small width stone.

[@tcj2185]

Scythe stones work well. www.baryonyxknife.com/baafoscst.html For small knives you can wrap different grits of sandpaper around a proper sized dowel.

[@c.huseyinersk5520]

Merhaba Turkey / Kayseri 200,600,1000 x10 ad grit 10 set taş için fiyat alabilirmiyim.

[@allansmith5554]

Sorry to TheapostleP for calling you George

[@johnlewis9715]

if you ever get rid of another 250, 650, 1100 or 2300 matrix stone I would like to try them. I'll pay for shipping I only sharpen my personal knifes so they don't have to be great. I would just like to them some before I spend over $200+ for a set. Thanks

[@davidr6856]

Maybe go on BladeForums and ask if anybody near you is willing to let you use their stones, or have you stop by their place to try them. I ~2 years I haven't head any negative comments about these stones except from one guy who used them dry and cleaned them incorrectly.

[@kennethking817]

I'VE been wanting to purchase a knife sharpener and stones for awhile now , an figured I would try to learn as much about the knife sharpening systems and stones beforehand but after viewing this video I get the feeling these stones have more issues than a leftoid communist 2 days before an election . May I ask , Are there stones that produce great results without the ware issues that diamond stones have ??? I see so many on the internet using the middle 2 to 3 inches of the stones instead of trying to use as much of the stones as possible sawing away like their using a hacksaw , Which causes a valley in the stone resulting in having to flatten the stones . I watch your channel most every video , mostly to see the value of the knives out there , If you could recommend some better than good stones at a moderate price point it would be appreciated . btw I'm trying to help , Comet works better than Ajax on everything everyone I know says so .

[@TheApostleP]

Still using these stones every day, Kenneth. I’ve used glued on single layer diamond stones - they wear out quickly. I’ve used Shapton Glass - that gall on most super steels. I will always prefer a sacrificial stone (which needs to be flattened) I’ve any of the single layer products. These are the best I’ve used. I have no intention of changing.

[@kennethking817]

Thank you for the reply Mr P , I trust your advice but my Question remains do you have a regular stone you would recommend ?

[@TheApostleP]

@@kennethking817 Not sure what you mean by a “regular” stone. As diamond stones go, these are the most like what I consider a regular stone, which is to say, a stone that wears away and requires flattening. To my knowledge, these are the only stones like that which use diamond as the abrasive. Many modern super steels simply laugh at lesser abrasives, so diamonds are pretty important. So, what do you mean by a “regular” stone?

[@kennethking817]

I don't know I didn't think that all of these type of stones were of diamond materials , I thought some were like the cut stones Arkansas hard And Arkansas medium and course , That's what I mean by regular stones .

[@TheApostleP]

@@kennethking817 These are used and maintained like those normal stones, but have the diamond abrasive you need for modern steels.

[@jonleone777]

Way to expensive.

[@therealjoshtodd]

I appreciate the review, but your first 6 minutes didn't even touch on the matrix stones. you have a lot of fluff in this video that could be trimmed out. This could be a 8, maybe even 6 minute video if you trimmed out all the fat. Not trying to give you a hard time, just as a youtube creator (on my professional channel, not my personal), I appreciate constructive feed back myself so I like to give it as well. People don't like long videos. Keep it as succinct as possible.

[@bboness713]

The Apostle P, Sharper than any two edged sword my brother! So blessed to have a brother that serves the King of kings, Jesus of Nazareth. He's returning not to bring peace but a sword. Thanks for sharing your faith!