Edge Pro Matrix and Venev Orion diamond stone comparison on Maxamet

This video is continuing my comparison between the Matrix stones and 100% concentration Venev Orions, but on Maxamet this time. If you want to cut to the chase go to 24:20 for my final thoughts, with microscope images for reference.
For bench stone versions of the Matrix stones please visit my website at cgsw.us

[@yzept]

Thanks so much for taking the time to do this and providing the objective outcomes for us to make our own conclusions. I personally have had very even predictable results from your matrix stones and the consistency of diamond grit sizes in your matrix materials are better than the alternatives I have tried. There is a general lack of objectivity in sharpening videos on KZbin but you are bucking the trend.

[@user-xf4es7eh9y]

have you tried an actual tried and true tested consumer product for mass market like naniwa diamond stones? no? didnt think so. I think for the cost there is no comparison. If these stones were maybe half the cost, then I'd say okay, maybe it's worth a shot. But for the same cost or more as a naniwa product, I'm going naniwa every time and wouldn't regret it. only issue is naniwa doesnt make a bonded diamond stone below 400. below tht you gotta use green silicon carbide whetstone which is whatever, I think this would be the best diamond grit but what do I know. so then when considering which low grit diamond stone to get... the obvious choice is harder binder for a lower grit stone is better. therefore nanohone is out. too soft. therefore these are out as well. too soft. so the conclusion is venev 80 and 100 dual sided for the win. Not ideal but itll do.

[@zionpsyfer]

@@user-xf4es7eh9y I have the 1k and 3k naniwa diamond stones, as well as a venev dragon 80/150. I also have the full set of the CGSW bench stones. The naniwas are nice, no doubt. The f80 side of the dragon is a good shaping stone, slightly less aggressive than an atoma 140. For anything finer than that f80 though, I prefer the CGSW stones. The naniwas load up/burnish at a much faster rate and the scratch patterns are roughly equal between the 10um CGSW and the 3k naniwa. To each their own as far as preference but don't discount these as not being tried and true tested consumer product... Edge pro matrix stones are not some new, untested product.

[@The335plyr]

I have a full set of Venevs and I have the Matrix 250. If I could do it again I would have bought a full set of the Matrix. Like someone else commented the scratch pattern when looking with your naked eye is so much more homogeneous than the Venevs, and your blank is so much better. I’m slowly building up a collection of the Matrix stones.

[@aricstrauss5183]

Excellent video! I was the guy that posted in bladeforums about getting micro chipping using your stones on my Edge Pro, specifically when reprofiling starting with the 80 grit. The microchipping I see is EXACTLY what you ran into during this sharpening, but I've also had it worse at times (more than just one chip). I ended up using both yours and TripleB's suggestions to combat the problem. First I cut the edge off after I'm done with the 80 grit stone by cutting directly into a stone a few times very lightly, then I slightly raise the angle on my Edge Pro for the 250 grit and up stones. Raising the angle wouldn't fully remove the microchips on it's own as I tried that first. Cutting the edge off did the trick, which basically just grinds the very edge of the apex off. Obviously that dulls the edge severely but your 250 grit stone brings it back very quickly when raising the angle slightly. I only run into the microchipping on the very hard super steels like Maxamet, K390, 15V, etc. FWIW I still love your stones, I have the full set and they are my go-to diamond stones when using my Edge Pro (own the Venev set as well, but the full size bench stones). Thank you again for everything you do for the community!

[@CGSW]

Maxamet is funny steel, I have had it chip using leather strops with a cream based emulsion, which caused more drag when stropping. This caused me to switch to water based emulsions so the leather slides on the steel with less drag. By the way I don't raise my angle until I am done with my last stone. It saves a lot of time and the knife gets as sharp or shaper than if you refine the apex as much as possible with each stone. I spent a good 3 days testing this out to make sure I wasn't wrong. I only worry about polishing the bevel with each stone, then when I am done raise the angle by .1 degree or so and do a few more passes with the finest stone and strop to finish.

[@aricstrauss5183]

@@CGSW Thanks for the tip, I'll give that a try tonight! And I agree, Maxamet seems to be in another league compared to the rest.

[@PieroZanetti]

Thanks for the video! I own both of the stones sets and I prefere the Diamond Matrix. I found that the 80 cuts way faster than the Venev's one and they diamond matrix leaves a more homogenous scratch pattern. With the venev I can get a mirror finish but with casual deeper scratches, while with the matrix it's definitely better

[@trumanhw]

What do you use to view (image) these..? Microscope..? If so, what magnification etc..? I have a simul-focal stereo microscope with a good M4/3 sensor, etc ... and was thinking about doing some tests myself. Would it be okay if I gave you a call this week..? thx

[@trumanhw]

I wish you made them in 1x6" ... (or maybe you just don't sell that for exclusivity?) ..? Also, I'm thinking you made your own (MAGNETIC..?) FAS ..? Great stuff!

[@CGSW]

I make the Matrix stones too but only sell them to Edge Pro. They are a very old customer so I can't directly compete with them.

[@trumanhw]

@@CGSW Of course. You're a good man. And again, thanks for the info.

[@John-xk7uo]

To much polishing will taste the cut right out of an edge

[@CGSW]

Depends on if you want a saw or a sharp edge.