Edo Third Hokage VS Sage Mode Naruto / Hisoka VS Kurapika

[@zmartusers3396]

For those wondering if Sage Naruto can seal Edo Hiruzen. Naruto have access to all toad summons from mount Myoboku. Many of which can use seals. Didn't Jiraiya perform multiple seals with the help of toads during his fight with Pain? Ma & Pa could do it for Naruto after a one giant rasenshuriken from Naruto knocks out Edo Hiruzen.

[@raymondnickolas608]

You're just assuming he can use seals. He has never sealed anyone by himself. Yeah theoretically he could get there help, but since he has no feats of doing that it's not really fair to say he can. That would be like saying hiruzen is stronger than hashirama because statements from data books, when clearly hashirama is stronger because his feats in the show

[@josephbooker259]

I think sage Naruto would just shit on hiruzen tho. Hiruzen basically can't hit naruto bc of sage mode, naruto can blitz hiruzen 2ith shadow cpines and confirm rasenshuriken, and rasenshiriken is an instance dub if it lands.

[@RareTheSage]

Hiruzen gets carried by statements 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@domesticmh4567]

Yes

[@kameronmiller2226]

Ong

[@jaredbowen3527]

I mean not really but ok

[@akasakasad6271]

he literally put in work during the final fights

[@ZaBreaker]

@@akasakasad6271 he gets by Trisected by Obito and stalemates guru-yamato. Not much work was put in.

[@DrooledOn]

Six is 100% anti hiruzen

[@mybubbajub]

Alive Hiruzen probably couldn't stalemate the gedo statue like his edo did just based off of him not being able to really push Kurama out of the village when he was alive but he can 5 man solo the gedo for a bit as a edo. He definitely got his full power back like when he was still training before Minato took the spot. He's definitely slapping Sage Naruto as a edo until ghost homie pulls up on em that is.

[@ZaBreaker]

He did not get his full power back as an edo. He had his Old man strength, he did have more Chakra to use since he was an edo, but not His Youthful strength before minato became hokage. There are no grounds for that being true at all and is a baseless claim to make.

[@ZaBreaker]

Alive and edo hiruzen get slap by sage naruto in the war arc, Alive dies from rasen-Shuriken and Edo gets massive rasengan'd Barraged and sealed. [If the sealing corps near naruto or naruto uses a sealing tag either way its gg]

[@edbotikx]

Hiruzen didn't fight the gedo statue

[@kelltaylor5774]

That wasn’t the gedo statue that was mokuton true several thousand hands, which to be fair can also scale to kurama. But an argument for why hiruzen couldn’t drive out kurama during the konoha attack is bcuz he didn’t want to harm more bystanders by using more large scale jutsu. From the scans we’ve seen, hiruzen only used his staff and I think a firestyle jutsu.

[@mlh1367]

@@kelltaylor5774 umm no, that statue does not scale to Kurama. Did we not see in the flashback of Hashirama vs Madara how much Larger than a full sized Kurama it was? And it literally destroyed Majestic attire Kurama.

[@ecid1176]

Hisoka wins in base for sure But once the Scarlet eyes come out, Kurapika post Mortem nen buff or not, Kurapika takes the dub. The only weakness Kurapika has is the fact he can't use chain jail or the penalty will activate & kill him.

[@raymondnickolas608]

It really comes down to if Naruto can seal hiiruzen ALONE, which he can't. Even if you say Naruto is stronger, he can't seal hiiruzen

[@ZaBreaker]

I mean, He could just bring a sealing tag it doesn't have to be a jutsu

[@dans780]

@@ZaBreaker I don’t think he normally has a sealing tag on him. Idk tho I might be wrong.

[@zereth2792]

@@dans780 Isnt he a namikaze tho? arent they known for sealing jutsu? even if so i honestly think kurama could help naruto seal him im not even kidding. A charka fox learned a new mode through actual science (baryon mode) and he’s seen people seal him into a couple of people numerous times so i think he could probably teach naruto mid fight or something idk just rambling tbh

[@EDK-San51912]

Or ya know he doesn’t have to like many of endo were taken out without sealinf and just some of that talk no jutsu action

[@Rck-vert]

@@zereth2792 Naruto is an uzumaki not namikaze

[@parkerdolson2157]

If Hisoka joined the troupe its easy GG. Chain Jail is easy win. But that's a totally moot point

[@truckerbob1465]

Ye true

[@LuciusFox24]

I'm not sure if you read the comments seth but it is 100% confirmed that hisoka resurrected stronger than before, he uses texture surprise plus bungee gum to create entire new appendages that are fully functional when before he couldn't even stitch his arm back on. I don't see how you would think he didn't get stronger.

[@jordanwhitley5641]

Hisoka killing kurapika to piss gon and killua off I'm here for that

[@Picmanreborn]

Hisoka wins due to post mortem nen buff. Like he's a whole different monster now. It was close before.... But now it's no contest and that's not even factoring in Hisoka being bloodlusted now due to learning from his match with chrollo. But no Hisoka literally recreated his face and limbs which he couldn't do before. Post mortem is an establishing thing even chrollo said some abilities he has got stronger after the original owner died. And Hisoka.... DID die against chrollo so in typical Hisoka fashion he clowned and weaseled his way into a Zenkai boost while still being alive to use it

[@Tupadre97]

Ok I see what you saying but kurapika can one shot hisoka by taking his power with the steal chain and any damage he takes he can heal with the holy chain so unless hisoka can just blitz him and dodge every shot (which he definitely can't since kurapika is fast as fuck) I think kurapika might win.

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@Tupadre97 steal chain is extremely ambiguous as to how it works

[@Tupadre97]

@@sptflcrw8583 no. if you get hit with it at all you lose the ability it steals and if it drains all your nen you get put into zetsu. there's nothing really all that "ambiguous" about it.

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@Tupadre97 for one, it's a slow ass fucking dolphin.

[@parkerdolson2157]

Dude Edo Hiruzen is a monster. This is so hard

[@bjrnthebootybandit]

what has Hiruzen ever done

[@ItsUzele]

Hisoka does have an amp from revival cause it’s was RESIDUAL, that’s why Hisokas entire character switches after revival, his entire personality changes to kinda show it. And in HxH it’s WAYYY harder to scale fights cause it’s not about having more nen or anything like that. That entire verse has so many hard fights to scale cause it’s has nothing to do with who has more power/nen as seen how technical it got with Kurapika and Uvogin

[@dionysisnance4204]

sage mode war arc naruto slaps

[@kelltaylor5774]

The ability kurapika has to use on the spiders is chain jail. The rest he can use on anyone he wants he just needs emperor time for most of them.

[@AniSage]

judgment chain too

[@kelltaylor5774]

@@AniSage no judgement can be used on anybody he just needs emperor time active.

[@truckerbob1465]

Hisoka still bullies him cause the only chain that can actually forcibly stop nen is the chain jail and hisoka with post mortem buff is a whole nother monster now and chain jail is exclusively to lock down the spiders which hisoka actually isnt

[@kelltaylor5774]

@@truckerbob1465 I don’t think kurapika would win handily but hisoka isn’t bullying him. Stealth chain can also forcibly stop nen and if he gets tagged with it his hatsu is no longer his. And so the emperor time active hisoka is outclassed in every nen category beside his own. Him having a post mortem amp is solid enough. The only way those amps remain is if the user is dead since he is no longer dead that amp is gone.

[@truckerbob1465]

@@kelltaylor5774 thats not what the scans or the fights after imply for hisoka himself not to mention kurapika tagging hisoka to begin with is a stretch hisoka scales way higher in versatility with his nen he also scales much faster speed feats wise then kurapika considering he was able to almost off screen two troupe members no more then a few minutes apart ill concede on the bully but hisoka wins imo

[@cypherbrittainnethegodofsl4988]

I've seen this debate in a Comicvine site of "all Naruto movie villains (no Momoshiki and Toneri) vs EMS Madara / Rinnegan Madara" What do you guys think about it? For bonus round, we can add Toneri but Madara is triclops Juubi Madara

[@jaydm_0548]

Madara smacks no diff. Movie villains are ass, almost all of them got taken out by rasengan/rasenshuriken

[@isaacramirez8154]

so momoshiki or nah cause if it's momoshiki he kinda bodies every version of Madara besides 3 eye juubidara which fused momoshiki could toneri is pretty strong he probably beats all versions of juubidara besides rinnesharingan juubidara

[@1hundred1]

@@jaydm_0548 EMS Madara almost got taken out by a rasenshuriken too

[@Ryan-lh1np]

@@isaacramirez8154 even base momo stomps juubidara tbh

[@ciaran466]

@@1hundred1 very true but madara wasn’t taking it seriously, he used rinnegan to stop it which he will have in this fight

[@OK-yy6qz]

Big question has Naruto overcame the 2 shadow clone limitation in Sage mode? If yes I'd probably give it to him since his war arc self can create Shadow clones that keep up with Edo third Raikage. If not then I'd probably give it to Hiruzen.

[@hunterzk3964]

From what i remember he was limited to use less clones only because he already have other clones gathering nature energy and it will disrupt them or something like that, probably if he has 0 clones gathering nature energy he should able to make as many clones as he want.

[@___________0Z0X]

An actual balanced comment, thank you. Everyone who comments has mostly been in massive favor if one side.

[@VolatileViolet]

I'm sorry, did Hiruzen catch a case? 'Cause he molests.

[@efrenurbina1654]

Facts

[@philosopher9672]

He cut out the part where Six started spazzing out haha

[@LuciferArc1]

I think kurapika is able to use his abilities on anyone now in the manga. I think I read that somewhere. If this is the case, kurapika just stomps outright. He could easily be the strongest if this end up being the case

[@sptflcrw8583]

He can't, no idea where you got that

[@NoveltyOnTop]

@@sptflcrw8583 He can lol the only chain he can't use on anyone other than the troupe is chain jail I mean we literally see him use stealth dolphin on Queen Oito

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@NoveltyOnTop cool, that's one

[@NoveltyOnTop]

@@sptflcrw8583 Well he can also use Dowsing chain, Holy, chain, and Judgment Chain.

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@NoveltyOnTop no evidence of any of those

[@brolybanderas42]

How often does Seth make live streams?

[@WcDame]

“Which Sage Arc Naruto Is He Talking About?!” 😂😂 were you trolling or did you turn your ears off

[@Nahanoo]

I like when they argue.

[@astrocade6132]

It’s not just post mortem Ben. Hosuka is through playing games and fighting fair. Dude is just killing ppl now

[@jwall1646]

Could you do Pain vs Tobirama

[@guywithglasses5309]

Pain obviously wins tho? Tobirama is closer to Kisame tbh

[@ares9185]

@@guywithglasses5309 bro Tobirama blitzes Kisame. Edo Tobirama (so weaker) while high dif keeps up with Madara and Juubito. Kisame could never do the same.

[@jwall1646]

@@guywithglasses5309 are you saying that yourself or basing it off of Swagkages old Tobi vs Kisame video because I’m pretty sure Seth debunked that and said he and Swag kinda low balled Tobi

[@guywithglasses5309]

Maybe Kisame was too far but Tobirama doesn’t really keep up with juubito like people like to imply like he tags juubito like one good time while naruto is talking to him with a jutsu that literally instantly teleports u meanwhile pain lowkey manhandles up to 6 tailed naruto, which I just think is so above kage that tobirama cant really handle. Then again I think tobirama a pretty mid hokage so maybe thats my problem

[@ares9185]

@@guywithglasses5309 Yes I agree that Tobirama is no match for Juubito or Madara but just the fact that he can get some hits off on these top tier characters is a feat in its self. I also think his fight with Madara is a better feat to use. And yes I also agree that Tobirama is a mid Hokage but the hokage are already stated to be above the other Kage on average so him being mid hokage isn’t really a negative imo. Another thing he has going for him is his intelligence which a lot of people don’t seem to take into consideration in these hypotheticals for whatever reason. I personally think the pain vs Tobirama is a good fight and it’s closer than you think.

[@jerrberrrr]

Correct me if I’m wrong but it’s only the judgment chain that’s can used on the Troupe and not the other abilities like chain jail and healing finger? Kurapika is broken cus currently he has his eyes on throughout the journey and using it in insane ways but with the side effect of it draining his life. Idk I think Kura takes it but it seems Togashi is writing him with massive death flags.

[@Tupadre97]

No it's only chain jail that works on the troupe the judgement chain and steal chain can work on anybody

[@Lampaluile]

Edo third is stronger than base.. I think he does man

[@krisjones4051]

Six has that Anti-Hiruzen agenda

[@nyaruko-do2ok]

Sage mode Naruto doesn't have a way to defeat edo hiruzen since he can just regenerate

[@tribopower]

Doesn't he have that frog that is a seal jutsu itself ?

[@jurassicshinobi]

Only Kurapika’s chain jail is exclusive to the spiders..

[@Blazelee97]

Six is right on this

[@tribopower]

So lets think about this, Hiruzen struggled really hard against orochimaru (yes he had the 1st and 2nd hokage, but even then they were limited to their real power) Hiruzen was still able to deal really qucik with the 1st and 2nd hokage, and he end up losing to orochi while sealing his hands, as amazing of a fight it is its still an L, The same Orochimaru got bodied really hard by pain (not even the 6paths just base pain tendo). Its fair to say Naruto Sage Mode wins this one

[@Diaster147]

But we are talking about edo hiruzen. Which was fighting and reacting to 10 tails obito for a bit and was rivalling the buddha statue

[@hokagedlo6133]

@@Diaster147 lol war arc sage mode naruto clones were shitting on the 3rd raikage this isn't close sage mode naruto in the pain arc was considered to have surpassed sanin level hirozen was barely above that war arc sage mode naruto has more experience and is mentally amped

[@exequielbreton4393]

@@Diaster147 Spiral Zetsu's Bhuda statue* Which is leagues below Hashirama's bhuda statue

[@Diaster147]

@@exequielbreton4393 but was still beating other kage and the people who were left of the alliance

[@user-ex3zb3tq5w]

To say Hisoka didn’t power up after dying is wild. He is almost immortal now he can re-create his limbs (not the inner organs but they can probably be protected by bungee gum) bungee gum which pre death was strong enough to counter razors powerful ball throws without breaking and he is likely to grow more powerful with each battle.

[@keiganm1287]

Do you think razors throws are stronger then uvogins punches. Because kurpika could tank and heal ovugins punches while hisoka was barely able to handle razors spikes by himself.

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@keiganm1287 razor is likely stronger than uvogin by quite a large degree. The Phantom Troupe wouldn't risk a fight with him, even all at once, and Hisoka didn't even consider Uvogin a challenge, yet was extremely impressed by Razor. Even Ging was impressed with him

[@flight_knight_]

Hiruzen is greater than Orochimaru that’s shown in the anime in part 1 when he stalemates a 3 on 1, also Orochimaru in part 2 is cowering in fear at Tobirama while Hiruzen is at least in his league

[@flight_knight_]

I’m not saying Hiruzen wind but he is clearly above Sanin level as an old man and definitely above it as an edo

[@beefjiggler5665]

Orochimaru was never afraid to Tobirama. He just stands there and stares at him. He’s only scared of Hashirama.

[@SRVaris]

Orochimaru was also Mentally nerfed & Holding back against Hiruzen

[@dungeon-wn4gw]

Tobirama folds old man hiruzen.

[@Sythexdragon]

Third hokage slaps

[@raymondnickolas608]

Only because he's edo. Naruto has no sealing jutsu

[@fuzzinator9523]

no

[@raymondnickolas608]

@@moneymankkk5797 it's not a joke stupid, it was a reasoning.

[@Thronumgoroth]

Granted, we cannot definitively say how strong the Kage got in the few years after the passing of Hiruzen however, in life, nobody wanted Third's smoke - I'm 2 minutes into this video and I already strongly disagree. To say Hiruzen is base-Sannin level is a all the way out there because this implies that the other Kage were below the Sannin in the 4 narrative years: Hiruzen was very blatantly stated to be the strongest Kage. If you think 4 years ago, Tsunade or even possibly Jiraya could compete with Onoki or 4th Raikage Ay, then you need to stop smoking weird things. I don't know what the rest of the video holds but I'm not hopeful.

[@Goatkage]

Pain toyed with orichamaru and orichamaru >= hiruzen, while naruto was high relative to pain he definitively smokes hiruzen especially by the fourth ninja war

[@Lampaluile]

Edo and mental buff makes him a slapper though

[@tribopower]

Exactly

[@Liltaekwon]

The main issue is determining how strong hiruzen is in edo tensei vs him fighting orochimaru. He was holding back against him the whole fight so nobody knows how well he’d do against pain bloodlusted or in edo

[@toptextbottomtext3062]

I think Hiruzen wins at least against pain arc Sage Naruto. Hiruzen is stated the strongest out of the five kage which would include V2 cloak Raikage who was destroying MS Sasuke in terms of raw AP and borderline blitzing him (MS Sasuke is a rival to Sage Naruto) and Onoki who can atomize 25 of Madara's full body susanoo. Those hokage summons were definitely sannin level, sure Hiruzen had a mental nerf, but he was still throwing hands with Orochimaru and rivaling his aura. And that's just his part 1 feats. As an edo he kind of outspeeds Tobirama and saves Naruto from shinju branches that just caught him in bijuu sage mode, being the only one who was really relevant against the shinjuusenju out of the entire shinobi alliance and partially dodging an attack from Juubito.

[@DigitalPand3mic]

While single handedly holding off the gedo statue, and breaking down all chakra natures of the truth seeking orbs including how they worked in mere seconds...

[@SRVaris]

He is only stated to be equal to the Part one Kage who are completely featless, He also never outspeeds Tobirama as we don't know where Hiruzen was before he saved Naruto

[@6Shi6Kei6]

Bruh people keep saying that Hiruzen fought against a weaker Orichi yet he had both of his hands which are his greatest weapons, and the 4th tails chakra cloak Naruto Fought an Orichi that didn't have his arms unsealed lol, so he was mostly on the defensive throughout that fight.

[@kenpachizaraki5237]

I like to think that Edo Hiruzen wins against Early War Arc Naruto just because he was having trouble with the 3rd Raikage. Meanwhile, the Guru Guru Zetsu was manhandling the entire Shinobi alliance with the current 5 kages but Edo Hiruzen stalemated him. I don't see Naruto doing that. However, Mastered KCM 2 Sage Mode Naruto is definitely above him cuz he was keeping up with Minato and his Sage Jutsu was damaging Juubito.

[@infiniteflash4236]

The was only a clone of Naruto that took out the 3rd Raikage

[@fellowkrieger457]

I perfectly see Sage Naruto beating down that Guru Buddha statue. It tooks only Karin to get her chains off to get that statue goes off. These chains are a power that can physically restrains the 9 tails, and sage Naruto can fight on part with Kyuubi (well half of it...-_-). Guru Zetsu was fighting an alliance where all Kages got literally brought back from almost dead state. And hiss Buddha is not as strong as sage Hashirama's. It was much smaller. Karin's pretty chains are not subduing sage mode Buddha statue (otherwise, well let's say that's a shame for perfect Susanoo kyuubi from Madara).

[@Vader255]

Yeah Hiruzen smacks he reacted to jubbito and stalemated Yamato

[@MysticHasaan]

Sick Goku VS Sick Itachi ( itachi gets a week of prep)

[@spit-fire]

goku dies in that week without the heart medicine* LOL

[@lowerc4e531]

Itachi wins

[@chrisvthe122]

This nigga said AIDS eyes 💀💀💀 btw Kurapika can use all his chain abilities against Hisoka except Chain Jail because he vowed to only use that to capture the Spiders

[@justinwatson7778]

Ok So people saying that Naruto sage mode weather its pain arc or war arc you guys are saying that Naruto is stronger but since he has no sealing Jutsu he loses? I guess ?

[@sladelius6174]

Kurapika's only ability that is exclusive to the Phantom Troupe is Chain Jail. Every other Hatsu is free game. Hisoka would lose to current Kurapika though.

[@sparknazo]

I do consider Hiruzen stronger than sage jiraya but I do consider Sage Mode Naruto to be somewhat relative to Hiruzen and prime Hiruzen I agrue is still stronger

[@colonelkenpachi5009]

Prime Hiruzen for sure.

[@josephbooker259]

Prime right? Bc old gets shit on

[@abstract0455]

Hisoka is objectively stronger after the chrollo fight, if he loses a limb he can recreate it out of bungee gum and that limb will be stronger than the original limb. He also can’t be killed since he can just initiate post mortem nen again to restart his heart. So Hisoka is objectively stronger than he was before.

[@damianmorningstar3150]

Hiruzen gets carried by Edo in this fight assuming Naruto dose not know about the Sage Stone Sealing Swords. The only way I see Naruto beating Hiruzen is finding away to put Hiruzen at peace spiritually and His Soul willingly passing on like what happened with a few of the other Edos during the war. I don’t See Hiruzen Beating Naruto with out wearing him out of Sage Mode. So you have to give it to the Edo Hiruzen just by the fact that He won’t get tired and Naruto will

[@johnpaquin366]

Is that six in the background... dude for once I agree with him over seth... shittt

[@dain6492]

So you think hiruzen is fighting pain like naruto did?

[@taecampus]

Maybe a younger Hiruzen? The one who defended the village from Kurama....... but then again Pain was pretty OP

[@dain6492]

@Kyle King did you miss the war arc? They kind of retconned that statement. How would anyone be able to actually judge that? Hashirama and tobirama both died when hiruzen was a kid, who tf is going to be able to give an accurate account of hashiramas strength? Good thing we have the war arc that shows that hashirama is indeed the strongest hokage. Hell tobirama moving his finger was enough to make hiruzen nervous.

[@taecampus]

@@dain6492 doesn't Edo Tensei bring you back at your strongest anyway? But with both of them brought back, Hashirama was still hailed at the strongest Kage

[@gameuniverse5973]

I can see edo Hiruzen destroying all six pains easily

[@B0K0691]

Last like ten videos should've been one mega videk

[@johnwright703]

Who would win between hisoka and doflamingo

[@Zepollli]

Kurapika folding Hisoka

[@sptflcrw8583]

???

[@dannysdungareedanceoff8481]

Kurapika wins. All of his Abilities except Chair Jail (the one that suppresses the opponents power) can be used on anyone that's the only abilities that's limited to the spider

[@doctorfloppa2021]

I don’t think hiruzen was really mentally nerfed vs orochimaru he seemed pretty resolved unlike 10 years ago but I might have to reread the fight

[@ibreathairunfortunatelyish4444]

He was Tho he didn’t want to fight his student

[@fellowkrieger457]

If I remember well, Enma said to him something like : what you're doing Hiruzen, you don't look like usual.

[@doctorfloppa2021]

@@fellowkrieger457 its weird cuz he said that halfway into the battle when hiruzen decided to make a cage to defend against hashiramas attack, it seems more like he was shaken up by orochimaru showing he had a different face and all that, ~~although even without it hiruzen thinks hes weaker than orochimaru who thinks hes above hiruzen anyways, and you can also make an argument that orochimaru was mentally nerfed too but thats a topic for another day lmao~~ and after enma says that hiruzen resolves himself immediately after he didnt really seem to mentally nerfed prior to the fight (mainly because he was fighting hashirama and tobirama i guess) either way i think its narratively suggested that orochimaru is at least just above hiruzen in general

[@marinenico1993]

Female orchimaru got him weak

[@ln8496]

Hiruzen was hokage twice.

[@komlat253]

right the gedo statue feat seem pretty obvious that the 3rd is stronger in edo i think

[@theyliveinthematrixofthefa4437]

Tendo Pain vs Kakazu (Raw Durability restricted)

[@mikhacoffman4522]

We do know he got amped, he wouldn’t have been able to restore his limbs with bunjeegum, he wasn’t able to do that right before he died and then comes back to life and does it much better.

[@EDK-San51912]

That’s not an amp that’s just him getting a new ability or having better recovery not him becoming more powerful.

[@mikhacoffman4522]

@@EDK-San51912 him gaining the ability to perform something he was not able to do an hour earlier is the definition of an amp

[@mikhacoffman4522]

@@EDK-San51912 he was unable to use nen properly with and on his destroyed limbs and then he revives and does a flawless job at recreating his hand with bunjeegum nen

[@crashmcgraw8534]

Y’all see that last death battle?

[@MrDrsogood]

If he talking sage Naruto that beat 3rd raikage I’ll take edo 3rd

[@d_xbombk]

most likely talking about pain arc naruto

[@Goatkage]

But that was a clone so you can’t really use that

[@mephistopheles2508]

Third hokage was just sorry man... Coughs (bitch a** ni**a) yeah

[@deckzonetcg8907]

Here is the Problem with Naruto. They Introduced Baryon mode. Which means anytime after he gets KCM, he has access to Baryon Mode as long as Kurama thinks he is going to die anyways. Hiruzen doesn't beat Baryon Mode.

[@dans780]

Kurama didn’t know how to use baryon mode until the Baruto era. That’s why he never used it. I think he learned the concept of nuclear fusion from the scientists at the leaf, tho I might be wrong I don’t fully remember how he learned it.

[@deckzonetcg8907]

@@dans780 he has always had it. He said it's a last ditch effort so it never came up.

[@omegademon6285]

@@deckzonetcg8907 it's based off scientific principles. Kurama made it up in the boruto era

[@itz_migzz4446]

naruto at this time only could do baryon if he had full kurama which he doesn't

[@Brokiemon]

Why did they Edo hiruzen as a old ass man is the real question

[@dannysdungareedanceoff8481]

There's literally no reason to equate Edo Hirizen to living old mentally nerfed and holding back Hirizen despite the fact that non of that applies AND he was keeping pace with high Kage He's not Sannin lvl or losing to those 3...

[@SRVaris]

Seeing as how Orochimaru was also mentally nerfed and holding back that would imply Orochimaru & Hiruzen are Equal

[@garka6135]

Wtf is kurapika and hizoka?

[@kingshelomah7083]

They’re from hunter x hunter.

[@JohnSmith-hk1fz]

How the fuck do you not know?

[@PatrickTillman7]

Edo Hiruzen is smarter than Naruto by a lot. And with Edo he has limitless energy. Plus Naruto has no sealing moves so he has no way to actual way to stop Hiruzen.

[@RamzalTimble]

Kabuto is much smarter than Naruto, and he couldn’t take Naruto out with the near invincible Third Raikage.

[@PatrickTillman7]

@@RamzalTimble I don't think Kabuto was directly controlling all the Edo. Could be wrong haven't read the war arc in awhile.

[@RamzalTimble]

@@PatrickTillman7 You're correct. He didn't control them all directly, but he was able to focus on a few at a time and cancel out their personalities. He did that with the Third Raikage when Naruto was fighting him. Though I feel like intelligence goes a long way, Narutos cunning and on the ball flexibility gives him a higher edge than most. (Unless you count Boruto)

[@PatrickTillman7]

@@RamzalTimble thanks for clarifying wasn't really sure.

[@Tiger-makhulu]

Tobirama said thy was near full power, not full power. Sarutobi, beats this Naruto. His years of experience, and skill. And consider his edo form won't have stamina problems

[@Uchiha_Teivan]

Yhwach vs Jigen?

[@Snoozytube]

Sounds pretty inconsistent if alive third hokage was on par with orochimaru when this sage naruto should easily take orochimaru

[@VolatileViolet]

Hiruzen was tired from fighting the other Edo Hokage _and_ was fighting Orochimaru in his old age.

[@austinmc12]

Both were holding back tho so idk I’m taking naruto if anything he can clone fuck him

[@slaver2420]

@@ahmadday64 edo solves any stamina issues from age tho

[@isaacramirez8154]

@@VolatileViolet yeah but sage mode Naruto would do alot better especially if some nine tails comes out GG

[@taecampus]

@@ahmadday64 yeah those versions of the edo Hokages were weaker than the War Arc. As for edo making you younger, I thought it kinda did because it reformed the person to back in their prime, like at their peak. Which is why Hashirama, Madara, etc were younger.

[@afro_souledits2382]

Deadbeat Grandad vs Datteyboi !!

[@closegripbenchpress489]

edo hiruzen is like relative to fucking base hashirama, so no.

[@tolabassist3302]

Who is this dude? Hiruzen as an old man is above sanin

[@Simbino3]

Naruto has no sealing

[@davontayleon1667]

Hisoka shits on kurapika I feel like kurapika doesn't have the experience to keep up with hisoka. Hisoka has low diffed the zoldic family butler and low diffed top ranking battle tower opponents. And believes he can go toe to toe with the zodiac 12. Kurapika needs to take out higher lvl opponents without the use of the nen absorbing chain jail to see how well he'll truly stack up against non phantom troupe opponents.

[@shadowofdimentio4618]

The problem with Kurapika is that his nen is all prep based. He's not great in a 1v1 without it. Against Hisoka he loses the use of two fingers (unless we give him a nen ability beforehand, his stealing ability seems like it has too many variables). However if Kurapika is hunting down Hisoka, he can always just borrow an ability that counters Hisoka. At the same time, York New Kurapika no diffed Uvogin. Hisoka would have to watch out for Kurapika's chains just as much as Kurapika had to watch out for Hisoka's gum. Sure Kurapika can't just put Hisoka in Zetsu, but the invisible chains themselves are not part of the pact Kurapika has. He can still use them and was able to deflect bullets with them. His healing chain literally prevents Hisoka from doing anything too tricky and forces Hisoka to keep close quarters. Could win Kurapika the match since Hisoka doesn't know about it. Finally the judgment chain is probably not gonna come up. In terms of stats tho Kurapika far outshines Gotoh with emperor time. Kurapika is smart enough to completely counter Hisoka's tricks and the likes and outshines him in sheer raw stats. Like you said, experience is the main factor for who wins as well as Hisoka's ability being something Kurapika can't actually deal with. I feel like Bungee gum is what wins here, not Kurapika's inexperience. Kurapika has a suggested record under his belt in the time we didn't and has outsmarted characters before. What he doesn't have is a strategy to deal with Bungee gum. We don't even know if he's aware of it (I feel like Gon and Killua would tell him since they consider Hisoka a part of the phantom troupe in york new but at the same time wanted Kurapika away from all that so they have just as much reason not to tell him). If he doesn't know and lets Hisoka hit him to test his defense, he's fucked. Hisoka pulls him in and Kurapika loses his mid-range and healing advantages. If he does know then he loses his sheer stat advantage as he has to attack with Gyo active and stay away at mid-range where his chains are more effective but he loses strength superiority. There's a chance he could just resist Bungee gum like Razor did but all Hisoka needs is leverage once to win. Hisoka wins due to just countering Kurapika's abilities. Bungee gum is way scarier than people give it credit for

[@NoveltyOnTop]

Well for one Kurapika has tons of knowledge about Nen also well experienced in using it and second Mizaistom tries to recruit him for the zodiacs and in the Succession Contest we see him actively taking on capable Nen users

[@MysticHasaan]

Spider-Man vs Mereum

[@parkerdolson2157]

Bloodlusted..... Kurapika. Kurapika can only not use Chain Jail against him. He has so much more than that. Without that it's Hisoke leaning

[@SleepLessThan3]

I thought kurapika could only use his nen abilities against spiders

[@parkerdolson2157]

@@SleepLessThan3 no its specifically chain jail

[@MysticHasaan]

Sage Kabuto vs Mereum

[@MysticHasaan]

Napa vs 10 tails (all of 9 tails added)

[@raymondnickolas608]

I love Naruto but he has no sealing jutsu. Naruto is stronger but the edo version wins

[@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy]

Actually magnet release rasengna is a sealing jutsu. He could also summon gama and then reverse summon him but thats alpt of prep

[@dans780]

@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy He had that when he got SO6P mode. Sage mode Naruto doesn’t have magnet release.

[@raymondnickolas608]

@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy what the other guy said. Good point tho

[@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy]

@@dans780 Well like i said, he can also reverse summon him. Its just unlikely

[@realizedpotential6640]

4:34 a misconception of Kurapika's abilities, he even has later ones shown in the manga (Watch NewWorldReview's vid on Kurapika's abilities) only one of like 6 abilities he has access to he wouldnt be able to use. We already saw Chrollo had overwhelm and beat Hisoka so Kurapika should be able to do the same.

[@sirjanus3954]

Chrollo had prep time and cheated against hisoka

[@realizedpotential6640]

@@sirjanus3954 cheated? Dont really see how. Prep time, sure. Thing is, Kurapika has just as much hax (arguably more effective ones) shown in the manga altogether as Chrollo did with prep time. Hisoka was implied to have came back stronger due to post morten nen so that version of him would be a better fight against Kurapika and might even take it but Hisoka during his fight with Chrollo and before loses just as bad if not, worse.

[@derkthebert9265]

@@realizedpotential6640 idk i have a hard time believing kurapika would do nearly as well as chrollo did even with prep time. i mean chrollo literally came up with a overcomplicated plan with tons of prep time and it still took the whole arena full of people blowing up on hisoka just to kill him. idk what kurapika would even do against him to be honest?

[@mikhacoffman4522]

That is the ability he bases himself to be able to compete with the spiders, if it wasn’t for that he would have been killed by uvogin, Kurapika was just stalling him so he could get the chains on and while he was able to block his punches and whatnot, he didn’t actually have anything to beat him aside from the chain.

[@mikhacoffman4522]

@@realizedpotential6640 kurapika is haxed in regards to the troupe, not so much overall. And chrollos prep time was so ridiculously buffing, very bug chance he would have lost to hisoka had it not been for it. Hisoka dealt more damage and took less damage per blow then chrollo. Chrollo specifically did that so he would be assured to win. Narrative wise, hisoka never even regarded uvogin as a challenge.

[@BigAlexRocks]

This is the worst scaling I've seen. Hiruzen and Oro scale above Sannin and Oro scales to the other Sannin after being Reaper Death Seal Nerf. Hiruzen got nerfed and beat Hashirama's Buddha. Suigetsu and EMS Sasuke still considered Orochimaru without the Reaper Death Seal as a threat.

[@doctorfloppa2021]

RDS orochimaru was clearly relative to a drugged Jiraiya aka also nerfed, prior to the reaper death seal jiraiya was already stated in the databook on par with him, and orochimaru scales above hiruzen easily, I’d say the only sannin hiruzen can actually beat is tsunade realistically

[@BigAlexRocks]

@@doctorfloppa2021 I disagree completely, databooks only speak of RDS Oro being relative to Jaraiya and Tsunade. They never mention Oro as relative before the RDS. Databooks 2 & 3 also mention Jaraiya's deep regret at never being able to beat and bring Orochimaru back to Konoha, as does Tsunade in the manga. RDS Oro was beating Jaraiya and Tsunade only losing to Byakugou Tsunade in that 2v1 bout. Most would agree Orochimaru is by far the strongest Sannin. Oro makes it clear in the 3way Deadlock that Jaraiya should give it up, implying that Jaraiya would never beat Oro regardless of the nerfs. Six also realizes this and thinks Sage Jaraiya scales closer to Byakugou Tsunade and RDS nerfed Hydra Oro. Jaraiya should be the weakest Sannin, I don't know if he could contend with MS Sasuke or 4th Raikage much less be relative to Onoki Amped V2 Ay like Tsunade was against Madara. It can be argued whether or not you think Sage Jaraiya beat 4T Naruto or base Jaraiya. But regardless it should be clear that RDS Oro, Jaraiya and Tsunade in base should be around this 4T Naruto level and that Hashirama's Buddha, EMS Sasuke that feared Oro without RDS, and Alive Madara all scale far above the base Sannin. Hiruzen after being nerfed by Edo Tensei beats YamaTobi and Buddha and Shikamaru says YamaTobi > Alive Sage Madara

[@BigAlexRocks]

I'm not even getting how Jaraiya would beat Tsunade unless we're saying he's faster than Onoki Amped V2 Ay and blitzes base Tsunade

[@doctorfloppa2021]

@@BigAlexRocks databook 1 says jiraiya is on par wiht orochimaru thats before the RDS, jiraiya has he parallelw tih naruto and sasuke, naruto failed to save sasuke at the end of p1 even tho their final forms with their strongest attacks were nearly equal, so it suggests orochimaru >~ jiraiya, jiraiya was drugged prior and couldnt mold chakra properly or even move normally to the point where he tries summoning gamabunta and summons a tiny toad not even a medium sized one, and later he recovers enough chakra to summon gamabunta but was still drugged, orochimaru is just condescending, even when sasukes relative to naruto he still looks at him as a loser, i dont see any issue with base jiraiya beating tsunade or any of the other characters you listed, a guidebook also states he learned jutsu that surpassed the 5 nations too, it more than likley wasnt sage mode since iirc we see a wounded jiraiya in base, that implies he has enough time to summon ma and pa, etc. it was more than likely base jiraiya, i think 4 tails naruto would just stomp tsunade , sasuke wasnt scared of orochimaru, suigetsu was which all it implies is rds orochimaru > mid 5 kage summit sasuke as thats the strongest version suigetsu saw orochimaru even concedes himself hes not strong enough to steal sasukes body gurugurus zetsu isnt even remotely comparible to hashiramas own buddha, some argue hiruzen got buffed by edo tensei if anything as it removed his old man issues, and if he was nerfed it just upscales jiraiya and orochimaru and shikimaru never says hes stronger than sage mode madara

[@gameuniverse5973]

@@doctorfloppa2021 the budha still scales over the five Kage and Shinobi alliance so Hiruzen takes it easy

[@arsh2489]

Edo 3rd Raikage > Edo Hiruzen

[@simplypump3511]

Edo 3rd raikage is overrated af

[@mr.megadrive6881]

@@simplypump3511 how would hiruzen hurt him?

[@Vader255]

Yeah no edo hiruzen slams

[@Vader255]

@@mr.megadrive6881 sealing or genjustu can do it or he just speed blitzes and one shots before the rakiage uses his lightning armor

[@Twix44]

@@Vader255 this dude think a old man can blitzes the third raikage I know ur trolling so it doesn't matter hiruzen struggles to seal orouchimaru with reaper and raikage is physically way more powerful than orouchimaru

[@ohmygodURMOM]

Bro. Retrieval arc garra vs hidan. Would pt 1 garra body the weakest akastuki member 😂😂😂💀

[@7thhokage87]

Naruto can’t seal Hiruzen so obviously he loses

[@theyliveinthematrixofthefa4437]

Ma and Pa may possibly know some kind of sealing .

[@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy]

Why cant the magnet rasengan do it.

[@ZaBreaker]

@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy cause it's war arc sage naruto, not six paths

[@ZaBreaker]

Also he can just use a sealing tag, doesn't have to be a jutsu

[@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy]

@@ZaBreaker True

[@j_quan2594]

I think Hisoka definitely beats Kurapika.

[@PaleRook]

Nah kurapika destroys him with both bloodlusted

[@MysticHasaan]

3 eyes Madara vs Apocalypse

[@tellmeninetails5819]

naruto vs a goblin and his riddles three.

[@MysticHasaan]

HXH verse vs Kurama (9 tails let loose)

[@PaleRook]

Nanika solos, Camilla also solos. If verse equalization exists than Knuckle can disable kuramas chakra off a single hit if he lands it.

[@EDK-San51912]

kurama would hit harder and has more endurance and would just kill all of them in a few attacks if not just one. As well as being more durable

[@twontwon1827]

Naruto wins i dont even see hiruzen beating the pains ! Not to low ball hiruzen but naruto literally states sage mode is literally faster with a wider danger sensory zone then kcm . People like to say kcm is stronger etc but kcm has no feats that shows kcm is a better transformation/power up then sage mode other then extra arms more reserves and longer duration … sage mode was picking up building size summonings with ease … also edo hiruzen is impressive but sage mode would just literally bypass anything hiruzen throws at him due to that wide sensory zone naruto has , also he can interact with nature so he would be able to hit hiruzen and speed blitz him quite easily hiruzen isnt on the third or 4th raikage speed level may be faster then tobirama but we see what even sage mode can do against even tobiramas speed so i just dont see hiruzen beating naruto at all ! Also jiraya orochimaru and tsunade are stated equals in base which means sage mode jiraya is stronger then orochimaru who hiruzen could of beat back then but even that orochimaru couldnt beat pain not even 3 of them especially if jiraya couldnt … And before u state orochimaru is stronger then jiraya i think yall should actually read the lore databooks etc because the sannin was comparable in base only! remember orochimaru didnt know about tsunade seal powers during their 3way deadlock battle also jiraya counters all of orochimaru techniques especially edo its been shown that u can stop edos from summoning which jiraya has a mud pit technique to do that ,its heavily implied and shown their equals in base alone just like naruto and sasuke are equals in base but naruto definitely would be stronger then sasuke at full power ! Especially after getting the other half of kurama and being able to keep his power ups unlike sasuke who lost alot of power and abilities from their last battle !!! To state hiruzen is stronger would be trash and yall would definitely low blow sage mode naruto

[@dans780]

KCM 1 and 2 both make Naruto faster, stronger, and more durable, compared to sage mode. However Naruto’s sage mode gives him better reaction speeds compared to KCM.

[@twontwon1827]

@@dans780 kcm 2 yes but kcm 1 literally hasnt shown better durability nor has it shown better strength or speed im saying this because of sage mode feats shown it has been able to dodge even faster opponents attacks then kcm ! sage mode is just the superior transformation the duration is just limited but thats all i promise u if u go look at the feats in the pain fight and the war arc compared to kcm you would see what i mean! Like madara being able to dodge tobirama who is faster then him and react an beat tobirama put sage mode speed on par with teleportation which would be the same for sage mode naruto compared to his kcm self u could see his movement speeds are faster rather then his reaction speed in kcm just do to him speed blitzing the 4th but its not really a huge factor or a massive difference honestly so thats why i say sage mode is just all around better because kcm never really achieved anything other then beating white zetsus So i guess u can say kcm is faster speed wise rather then reaction but not by much imo

[@MysticHasaan]

6 tails naruto vs Allmight

[@lancerobinson2515]

Kimimaro not sick would be a match for Hiruzen. Kimimaro held off kcm naruto

[@tribopower]

for real

[@SRVaris]

We don't actually know that in the Manga they are seen about to fight and then next time we see them KCM Naruto's clone is gone so anything could have happened

[@amogus1415]

Hiruzen held of guru guru,who could hold off tens of thousands of people amped to 3x the chakra of kakashi,and the 5 kage including Ay who scales to tsunade in her amped form.So yeah if you think hiruzen alive scales to base sannin then edo hiruzen is fighting 2 sannin plus level fighters and tens of thousands of akatsuki members.Keep in mind ten thousand regular shinobi could stalemate the 3rd raikage so hiruzen is thousands of times stronger than a guy who in his edo form sage narutos rasenshuriken didnt scratch despjte wind>lightning.Hiruzen dogwalks any day of the weak,not to mention him saving naruto from the god tree and narutonot having any sealing

[@SRVaris]

Sage Naruto's Rasenshuriken actually pierced the 3rd Raikage's armor after getting hit by it he is shown regening

[@kirbstomp8666]

Hisoka’s abilities clearly get a lot stronger after death. He creates prosthetics with bungee gum and texture surprise which is definitely not something he was capable of previously. Additionally, he likely got a huge mental amp after his motivations changed which is definitely consistent with the portrayal of nen in the series

[@prestonarmbrust]

Hiruzen, the second weakest Hokage 🫡

[@garka6135]

He thinks hiruzen defeats war arc sage naruto lmaooo So that means hiruzen solos the akatsuki?

[@Kingmeir814]

Sage naruto doesn’t solo the akatsuki

[@isaacramirez8154]

sage mode Naruto doesn't really beat every person in the Akatsuki at that point cause he loses to Obito low or mid difficulty and pain at full power wins mid dif at best itachi probably loses kisame has a better chance then itachi in my opinion so idk kakuzu gets body and everyone lower does too

[@sparknazo]

No but hiruzen is stronger than the sanin characters even their sage transformations state so I see Hiruzen still be able to body a sage mode naruto especially if he isn't limited by age or charka

[@isaacramirez8154]

@@sparknazo not even close if hiruzen fights a sage mode Naruto with toads and ma and pa hell nah

[@HaveYouHeardOfTheCharmonyDove]

Prime Hiruzen would most likely solo the akatsuki yes. it's been confirmed in the lore that Hiruzen was the strongest hokage pre boruto era. Now you can say "No way he's beating Hashirama" but the lore says otherwise.

[@DarkWolf-407]

If it's edo the Hiruzen outlasts sm naruto.

[@seanwall2846]

Kurapika gets amps fighting the phantom troupe

[@Tupadre97]

Kurapika gets amped in general every time he uses emperor time since it's so op

[@komlat253]

lol anti hiruzen scaling . i hear u bro .

[@MysticHasaan]

Anbu Kakashi vs Hisoka

[@PaleRook]

Kakashi molests him badly

[@jobdylan5782]

base sakura solos hxh

[@calvinsimpson1301]

Hiruzen wins imo