eevBLAB 118 - NEW Apple iPad Pro: Volumetric Engineering vs Marketing

Apple just released the new iPad Pro M4. Normally I wouldn't care, but it's about Engineering vs Marketing, and we can run some numbers, so let's dive in.
What can engineers do with an extra mm in thickness? How about double the battery capcity?
Better repairability would have been nice too!
Featuring DaveCalc.
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#ElectronicsCreators #Apple #iPadPro

[@therealsunnyk]

Better repairability? More sustainable? More Rugged? Yeah, there's a lot they could add in 1mm.

[@baxtardboy]

A solar panel on the back for recharging would be nice.

[@jaygee6447]

That wouldn’t fit with their 1-3 year planned obsolescence! They want these devices to be disposable 😢

[@marcogenovesi8570]

the thinner it is the more liketly it is to smash, that's all there is to the "make stuff thinner" in products nowadays. We are well past the point where they are thin enough for their intended purpose

[@therealsunnyk]

@@marcogenovesi8570 I see most Apple products as fashion technologies. They only really exist to show people you have one, rather than because they are fit for some sort of purpose. Even MKBHD is talking about how useless this thing is in context of its completely locked down software ecosystem. EDIT: and, to be completely honest, the biggest problem with these devices is the locked down ecosystem. There is so much ewaste I have which would be so useful if I could flash Linux on the thing. All my old PCs have been reused or repurposed, only the software / firmware stops these devices finding new life.

[@KeritechElectronics]

Yeah, none of that usability rubbish...

[@Kalukaru]

Add 2 mm and make the camera bump disappear...

[@JH_Tech49]

In also hate these camera bumps. I just don't get it. make fully flat product and profit from the extra room.

[@landspide]

​@@JH_Tech49they're the source of many a table scratch.

[@lasskinn474]

you can't place it on a hard table either side up. brilliant design.

[@gamefan6142]

Or add 3mm on the back and 1 on the front. You can now sink the cam and screen 1mm into the body, making them less likely to break.

[@AntiProtonBoy]

These camera bumps are so dumb. You know what people do to mitigate those bumps? Put the device is a case. Which immediately negates the supposed advantage of making these things "thin".

[@lbochtler]

makes device thinner, proceeds to add an even thicker protective case to prevent it from bending and breaking too easily.

[@mrtorpedor]

A better battery life would translate in slower battery performance decay, therefore a longer lifespan of the product in user service and an estimated lesser adoption rate of companies' future products. Designed obsolescence and artificially limited active service timespan. One main reason to make as hard as possible battery replacement with aftermarket products.

[@YoutubeBorkedMyOldHandle_why]

Exactly. Apple markets "designed obsolescence" to their customers, as if it is a feature, not a bug.

[@LabiaLicker]

very good point

[@andrewn7365]

Executives and shareholders aren't content with making some money, they want all the money. How can you vacuum up all the money if people buy less of your product if it's designed to last longer?

[@twjonckheere]

Notice how the guy holding "The new iPad Pro" has his hand over the sticking out camera so that you only see the thinnest part.

[@jessicav2031]

I think we all know what happens to the strength of an object when you make it so thin vs. large? These devices are already so fragile that everyone puts it in a case which doubles the thickness, or they get broken in the first few months. What the heck is the point of making a device 5mm thinner and then putting it in a case that adds back 5mm? Reminds me of the push to make screens as glossy as possible: it looks good in the store but when you actually try to use it, you just get a ton of glare and fingerprints.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

It's the Big Case lobby I tell you

[@michaelbuckers]

You just described exactly why it's the way it is. It looks good in the store, and by the time you get glare and thick bumpers, you've already paid for it so now it's your problem. Then again, if you looked at a glossy screen and a paper thin tablet and thought it was a good purchase, you deserve everything that comes next.

[@GiGaSzS]

Its the same with iPhones, they have square edge as opposed to iPhone 6,7,8, so you need to use a case for comfortable holding experience.

[@longjohn526]

The truth about the glossy screen LCD is you pay more and get less. Basically someone found out after leaving a damp cloth on their LCD screen it caused the anti-glare layer to bubble up so they peeled it off and posted it on the Internet. Soon everyone was modifying their LCD screens and monitor by leaving a damp cloth on the screen and then peeling the antiglare layer off. Soon marketing for LCD screens/monitors caught on and realized they could just leave the anti-glare layer off and actually charge more for the LCD screen/monitor or in other words charge more money while doing less work and soon it became almost impossible to find a a tablet or even a monitor with a decent anti-glare layer

[@cjay2]

The whole thing's a scam, IMO, for all the reasons you mentioned. And more.

[@hrnekbezucha]

The battery you found is for 2015 models. As a service technician, this raises all the red flags. Tablet of this size and this thin will bend like nothing. If memory serves, the iphone 6sp met the exact same fate, bending in people's pockets en mass. "Oh, you can't have it in your back pocket" no, sorry, it's a terrible design. Never let marketing department take charge of a company. PS: the thinner the bevel around the screen, the easier for the screen to crack. And these oled screens are easily half the price of the new device. AND they're tied to the motherboard with serial number so it's a pain (or impossible) to get it fixed without the stupid warning it's an unknown part. Even if it's genuine from a donor device. And you still have the cameras poking out from one corner so if you lay it flat on a desk, it's gonna wobble. How about making the case flush and get bigger battery? No? Awful business practices all around

[@D4no00]

It would be also great if in the process of bending it you could puncture the battery so it would catch on fire :D

[@AndrewTSq]

My first thought too. This will bend so easily.

[@melgross]

A lot of phones bent and broke. Not just Apple’s that one year. I doubt this will break easier.

[@bobweiram6321]

Until we see a teardown or a bend test, it's a bit presumptuous to cry out bend-gate. I've repaired dozens of iPads and the engineering is breathtaking. While the display is as delicate as an eggshell and the frame is twisty, once bonded together it's surprisingly rigid. Moreover, the adhesives provide just enough elasticity to prevent shock damage. It's possible to have an even thinner and more rigid housing by machining additional braces to prevent flexing. In turn, it would also require a smaller logic board and batteries. Considering the iPad is essentially an iPhone with a larger display, its logic board can stand to be trimmed down significantly without compromising its capabilities.

[@bobweiram6321]

@@D4no00Modern battery packs have mitigated that risk for several years now. There's a video of Louis Rossman stabbing a MacBook battery as a demonstration.

[@andrewn7365]

I've been saying this for ages! Make the thing a bit thicker and I'd be even happier with it. Laptops especially. Thicker laptops mean more space for socketed RAM, removable and/or bigger batteries, easier repairability, and better thermal performance. It's not like we're all taking our laptops on mountaineering expeditions where every fraction of an ounce matters, so why do they all need to be designed to be exceptionally thin and light? I really can't tell if there's a demographic that demands their laptops to be so thin, or if the marketing department hive-mind just decided it's important.

[@cheeseparis1]

Love how they hold the iPad on the picture, so that you can't see the photo lens is protruding. Since this product will end up in the same protective case as the previous one, i see no need for a thin thing. Battery life, yes!

[@cdnron75]

I don't get this obsession with thinness. Give me a tablet that's much more easily repairable, more battery life and won't bend if you look at it the wrong way.

[@chongli297]

The main draw of the thinness is if you use the iPad in a keyboard case configuration with the device mounted upright, like a laptop screen. Thicker and heavier iPads (this new one is also 22g or about 5% lighter) are much clunkier to use in that upright setup because the device is quite top-heavy and you don't want to just make the base really heavy as a counterweight

[@riesling4007]

Well, some people DO care about thickness (and weight), and they are the ones who will buy this iPad. Not everyone has your or Dave's or effing Marques Brownlee's priorities.

[@bobert4522]

Good news is if you want those things, there’s companies making it. Just won’t be Apple lol.

[@lolilollolilol7773]

Then don't buy Apple

[@Nik930714]

Oh it would add way more. The battery has several protective layers that dont effect the capacity. When you add the extra 1mm, you are just gonna add the useful layers, that add more capacity.

[@doomducker]

i cant wait for every site inspector and engineer to put the thing in a huge life-proof case, or for it to live forever in one of those kiosk things for signing in to places and none of this to ever matter anyway.

[@MaikKellerhals]

The camera sticking out is the dumbest thing ever. You can't even lay it flat! At least make the whole thing as thick as the cam, then it won't break when you step or sit on it by accident...

I guess switch from IPS to OLED screen granted them their 0.2mm drop in thickness. On the other hand, 0.2mm change in thickness is actually barely distinguishable, so marketing push is crucial here so everyone feels and knows this ipad is so wonderful. Even more important when apple sales are falling sharply.

[@Xaelloss]

As long as it makes a product even more difficult to repair? We're there, dude.

[@WizardTim]

Worth mentioning Apple doesn't repair iPads at all (not just this new 5.1 mm thin one). All you've been able to do for the last few years is trade in your old one and get an allegedly "second hand refurbished" unit (-15% price of brand new). It's also alleged most trade-in units are just shredded because they can't be easily repaired (see GEEP and similar lawsuits). Also the 10 hour battery life figure is for basic video playback (local and hardware decoded) on a brand new unit. 4-6 hours is more typical for the average mainstream user browsing Facebook who doesn't know how to close background apps. 100% guarantee they would rather an extra 2-3 hours of battery life than 1 mm thinner. But I also bet Apple would rather the battery be 100% DoD cycled more than once a day so it dies sooner and the consumer buys another one sooner. :) And just in case there's any Apple engineers reading the comments, just want to help you out, 5.1 is a bigger number than 3.5.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Tim Cook doesn‘t care sh.. about the thickness. He has his Excel sheet and the engineering goal was to cut cost. So they made the battery smaller/less capacity, dropped one of the cameras and the SIM slot. A bit of it is compensated by software and the rest is just a few stories/lies to be told by the marketing department. Job done, Apple business as usual.

[@riesling4007]

This is borderline illusional. Get a life.

[@username7763]

They could make the battery user-replaceable so people don't throw them away after a couple years. Might not help their bottom-line but would help the planet.

[@TheDefpom]

I hate the striving for thinner… (and more fragile and easily broken!) I would always prefer a device to be 50% thicker and fill the space with a bigger battery, if my iPhone last a week instead of a day that would be far better !

[@arrangemonk]

at some point you get papercuts from your tablet and marketing will love it

[@kreepykrawly1480]

Great, More ipad screens to replace...ß-Þ I also noticed the fingers hiding the camera bulge.

[@landspide]

Ashamed muchly.

[@BMRStudio]

Looks like we need EEVblog Ipad Pro, just like multimeters…😂😂😂😂

[@neverendingstudent]

With twice the weight of a brick, four times the durability of one, a mechanical optical zoom lens, and *400 HOURS* of battery life. Aluminum frame case? Bah, OUR customers don't give a shit about weight! MAKE THAT BAD BOY OUT OF INCONEL!! WITH TUNGSTEN CARBIDE ACCENTS!!! OUR EEVBLOG IPAD CAN DO DOUBLE DUTY AS A NAIL-DRIVING, WALL SMASHING HAMMER! CAN YOURS DO THAT MR TIM COOK??? WELL, CAN IT!?

[@MultiMojo]

Marketing: But we can sell more of these if people break them easily because of how flimsy they are !

[@edmaster3147]

how can we mislead the stupid consumers to earn more money every way possible

[@typxxilps]

1 mm for a pen house and bigger battery cause attaching the pen with a magnet ends usually in buying a spare pencil sooner or later . So a pen house inside the case or integrated is a lot better as in former Samsung Note Series - never lost such pen.

[@tHaH4x0r]

Better for you as the consumer, but not better for apple as they wouldn't be able to sell you another pencil ;)

[@marcogenovesi8570]

if you never lose the pen they never have to sell you a new one to replace it. Use that noggin

[@thedude7319]

I just love you have sooooo many different engineering subspecialities. Makes you think entirely different how you view problems in the world

[@Bourinos02]

Gotta love the marketing going ham with the process nodes of 3 "nm" even though now it's just a theoretical dimension and not related to the smallest feature size since at least a decade...

[@Klemmi.]

Yeah, I hate that as well... "3 nm" node: Gate pitch=48 nm, metal pitch= 24 nm. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_nm_process ). I guess, the real numbers stopped in like 1997.

[@calholli]

yeah.. if it were really 3nm, they would only be about 30 atoms across..

[@EEVblog]

So it's the 2020's equivalent of audio PMPO from the 1980's

[@Bourinos02]

@@calholli Yup, I mean, right now we can do things around 6 nm which is very impressive, but that's nowhere near "production" stuff, only research!

[@longjohn526]

They really need to go to the number of transistors per Sq. mm which is what really counts. Gate pitch and such really isn't a valid way of measuring with non-planar technologies like FinFET

[@1903tx]

@3:46 That seems like a practical consideration for people who carry and use calculators everyday rather than just an arbitrary metric.

[@Sonnell]

Oh not just 50% more between charging!!! 50% longer device life!!!! IF you have to charge less often, you charge a lot fever time in a year, hence you will not need to throw away your ipad for an other few years because the battery is dead! Hence, you'll buy 50% less ipads, hence they do not give you longer battery life. This should be punishable by court in my opinion. Give the user and the environment the chance they deserve.

[@hananas2]

I could imagine it being even more than 50% longer life because not only do you need to charge it less often, you can also lose a higher percentage of your capacity before it feels like it doesn't last long enough anymore! I really noticed this with my 2017 Dell XPS laptop, the battery is huuge and took 6 years to degrade enough to make me replace it. And I replaced the battery, not the laptop, because it's super repairable.

[@Sonnell]

@@hananas2 That is what I tried to say. You need to charge a bigger battery fewer times in regards of the life of the device.

[@doggwoggle]

I've often been thinking this. Big phone screens are annoying, but a phone being a few mm extra but not have a shit battery life after 3+ years and be more easily repairable would be so good. Which is probably why they do this, these ridiculous constraints are why battery powered gadgets get retired early.

[@cloudysky3614]

The past few years I have changed from "Tec-Specs" to sustainability when it comes to selling points of a product but that's so hard to find. I like repairing stuff. I hate throwing stuff out because I know what was necessary (energy and resources) to built the things I am throwing out. Oh and crushing all those "tools" for creativity? Don't like that either. Not all has to be digital. A good Piano will last forever :-) Find some current day tech of which you can say the same. And I really really hope they will stop with camera bumps everywhere... just use the space as you said. Bigger battery or more space for the engineers to think about more important things thant how to cram all the stuff into a small package. I miss the good old times where you could open almost any product by unscrewing a couple of screws. Sadly there are still to many people who just want the latest and greatest ... sorry thinnest IPad/Phone or whatever. Guess we have too much money that's why repairing things is not important anymore. An of course the big companies find ways to make your new product obsolete or unusable soon.

[@bbbf09]

That said, if you did give extra mm the marketing race and focus would likely be on for battery life. Before you know it 30, 40mm+ +++!!! Personally I think they should reduce thickness even further, put a serrated sharp edge on one side and presto!--- a survival tool at a pinch or defensive machete if someone tries to steal it from you.

[@Botteleth]

You are 100% spot on 👍

[@KMJSemcon]

Convenient how the person in the video holds it to hide the camera bump when showing how thin it is. As somebody else wrote in the comment, would have looked much better by adding 2mm and removed the bump. Besides measuring the thickness, should you not do that on the thickest point? So it's about 7.1mm:-) And the funniest thing about the thickness marketing wankery, it's still to thick to be the slimmest. As it stands, the number to beat is 4.7mm and have been so for a couple of years or so:-) Cue the reMarkable 2.

[@Club_Michas]

They forgot to mention the Special Feature so let me mention it: it overheats and cracks even faster.

[@richardusmc1]

Sweet nice and thin, let’s get a 2inch case to protect it

[@darkguardian1314]

Timmy! Why so thin? Why is Apple so obsessed with thin .... I can see if its going into orbit... After putting a case on it, does it really matter, Timmy...😂 I would like the capacity and heat disapation, please. 😂

[@RN1441]

An interesting mental game is to ask 'what does this do that a device 1mm thicker doesn't do?' I can't think of many use cases that this thing enables that devices even 2x thicker can't do, it's just easier to damage with worse battery life.

[@MephitisUK]

If you want an interesting read, give 'The Waste Makers' by Vance Packard, written in 1960, a go, it's still as relevant today.

[@Audio_Simon]

Gotta put a case on it that protects the camera bulge, haha. Ends up thick anyway.

[@tiefensucht]

I'm waiting for the 2-dimensional iPad.

[@nicolasjonasson4820]

"Sorry about my voice" The "its to late"-ness on that one is staggering. Anyways, who cares, every time you upload its something great. On KZbin, it's you and Rich Evans that got blessed with these odd, special voices. Fantastic.

[@Rob_III]

Let me be clear: I agree with the entirety of your video. However, *in general*, I do think having constraints and limitations and having to work with (or around) them increases creativity. One beautiful example is the good ol' Commodore 64. Look at what it did during it's hayday and what people have been able to squeeze out of it anno 2024. A lot of systems (the NES is another fine example) were very limited, sometimes even for their time, but people came up with incredibly creative ideas to work around those limitations and make the devices do stuff even their designers wouldn't have dreamed of in their wildest dreams.

[@rw-xf4cb]

thickness measured where the camera is or the thinner aspect - plus you slap down your tablet on the camera that's going to likely to damage that then had it been a bit thicker to support the cam and also add bit more battery too - if they wanted to pay the extra 2c for the next battery size up.

[@electronics.unmessed]

Hi Dave, all true what you're saying. However, I think the more important issue is the weight! It makes a difference holding 200g more or less in your hands over hours. And 10h battery runtime quite a lot, I think there is not many people that need more. In my case, I am charging it like twice a week only.

[@108u9]

Which is why IMO the “answer” is ‘Design’. Which arguably is one of the things that made SJ’s Apple great. ‘Engineering’ and ‘Marketing’ are wonderful domains and disciplines, undoubtedly filled with great talents in those fields. But when siloed in unto themselves, their paradigms (as the tweet and this video speaks to) can become narrow focused. ‘Design’ itself is not a cure all silver bullet but its posture of empathy, thoughtfulness, creativity can allow for pathways to make better things, however we may choose to define “better”. That said IMO it’s good to see a thinner, lighter device from before. A nice surprising change. It’s something welcomed from a handheld reading perspective. About the promo video, IMO it wasn’t great. Not sure the folks understand the nuance of the notion of ‘crushing’. Folks have an intimate relationship to their tools, which the video is tone deaf about. In the end it is what it is. Great work for everyone who worked on it. It must not have been a breeze. Now then, there are far more pressing and pertinent issues in our world for us all

[@colourist.]

I sense another 'bend-gate' catastrophe incoming!

[@Damien.D]

will be more of a screen-crack-gate at this level of surface vs thickness ratio.

[@pseudo_goose]

This is basically the whole plot of season 1 of Halt and Catch Fire

[@motopaediatheview9284]

Thanks for the analysis, no worries for the voice :D

[@bogmaerke]

I love how Dave being logged into X prompts him 'relevant people ' and one of the three shown is himself. 😅

[@madebyme757]

I’m a product designer myself and would like to pose a question: What are the environmental, economic, cost basis, and supply chain implications of such a decision? Is Apple so stupid as to not know what’s best for their business, or are there other factors at play? How would a heavier device affect shipping costs, packaging costs, their environmental targets, lithium supply chain, self competition with the Mac, and on and on… As I like to say, if I gave you a brighter screen, Linus would complain about the heat. If I gave you a bigger battery, he’d complain about the weight. If I gave you all the ports, he’d complain about the size, and if I gave him everything, he’d complain about the price. Everyone’s a critic. Every decision is a trade off. If you’ve got an idea, go make it. I’ll be first in line. Love your channel! Keep it up.

[@milksheihk]

In a practical sense it's every dimension except thickness that would save space for the consumer, making something that size so thin will just make it more likely to bend in regular carry.

[@andthen0170]

I agree with the logic however I use my gen 2 iPad Pro every day for work for probs 5 or 6 hours and had it since Feb 2019. It is a work tool both in office and on site. I’ve never had a problem with it. I’ve not noticed any issues with battery life, had no need for repairs etc. I use it for streaming etc when I travel but that is not my primary purpose. It will last a long haul flight. Point I’m making is repairability, durability and battery has been far better than what I would have expected. I thought I’d give a real world example. Ps I’m not an Apple fan boy but it happens to be the tool I selected and in hindsight compared to alternatives we have had in the office, it is worlds ahead. Some of our other devices are unusable at doing the same things I can do and end up not getting used at all.

[@Lvvcassss]

Extra 1mm would actually give more energy than +50%. These 2mm already consist of jellyroll plus the pouch casing. Adding 1mm will add jellyroll only, so pure capacity, optimizing pcb layout further might give more area for battery, so just like you said, doubling the capacity should be easy. But NOOO, we need the thinnest one (camera bump not included) 😅

[@a178design]

I think apple is marketed to a different type of consumer, perhaps it's more about brand then battery.

[@donepearce]

The big advantage of the thin design is that it bends really easily when you sit on it.

[@anotheruser9876]

For that time of the month, the Max-iPad Pro. Thinner so people won't be able to see you wearing it.

[@gepetotube]

Great video. This is where we get if we are more impressed by the looks rather than capabilities. Reality is that for 99% of the people is easier to understand a size improvement than a CPU improvement except that is M4 Is better than M2 ...just because 4 > 2

[@lbochtler]

what that add shows me, is that apple wants to destroy all art, music and everything nice. Then replace it with an ipad

[@attilarepasi6052]

I had the same feeling, that add was like a threat, like Apple wanting to destroy everything not made by them.

[@RK-kn1ud]

How about some access to part of the file system? I recently had to interact with my wife's iDevice and was baffled that I couldn't directly interact with a file.

[@Bl4ckDe4th88]

So true! The iPad 3 and 4 are still the ones with the largest batteries, which is just crazy! The iPad Pro came after those with a larger screen an ofc also higher total resolution, but with a smaller battery! Spec was still the same time-wise, but that’s bullshit. Felt the deficit going from 3 to 1st gen Pro. And camera bumps are stupid.

[@tcpnetworks]

As an iPhale user - I can't see the point in the constant upgrade cycle the die-hards go with.... Every 4-5 years for me. This time, it's a Pixel 9 Pro though...

[@bobweiram6321]

The verdict is in. The new M4 iPad Pro is remarkably rigid. It's more rigid than previous models! Apple has top notch mechanical and material engineers.

[@erksampat9328]

More than anything, this video shows how the mindset of the engineers always differs from that of the marketing team. Engineers are always looking to create the best-_performing_ product possible, but they sometimes forget about the actual user experience. Marketing wants to do the opposite: create a product that "wows" the consumer on paper, but falls short when it comes to usability. There's a middle ground. The battery life of Apple products these days is absolutely incredible. I believe a lot of consumers actually _would_ prefer a 1mm thinner iPad over an iPad with 20 hours of battery life instead of 10. After all, most people charge their devices every night, so lasting over a day is not as advantageous or impressive as it may seem to an engineer. I certainly prefer tablets that are as thin as possible, since this makes note-taking far more comfortable. Ironically I'm a second-year EE student... Ultimately, yes, the iPad _could_ have a longer-lasting battery. It _could_ be more repairable. But not all consumers want the best specs. Every product is designed with specific tradeoffs between specs and overall user experience, and the iPad (and Apple in general) leans toward the latter. Other companies don't. None of them are right or wrong. I've been watching Dave's videos since I was in middle school and I greatly respect his opinions. I'm not discounting anything he's saying here, just sharing some thoughts.

[@ZylonFPV]

I think it’s a great point! However, what would the weight be with that bigger battery? Would it make it tiresome to use? Think I would rather have the battery though 😊

[@EcomCarl]

It's impressive to see Apple's innovation in creating the thinnest iPad Pro yet! 📱💫 However, it's worth considering whether prioritizing thinness aligns with user needs and whether engineering efforts could be better directed elsewhere for overall device improvement.

[@Razor2048]

Even if they can't do a 2nd battery layer to will out the back case, and instead opted for 50% more battery life, the extra space could be used for an internal subwoofer to improve low frequency audio.

[@brad885]

my main issue with these ultra-thin devices is their durability. Double or triple the width, make it waterproof, and 2m drop test proof, and MAYBE you'd get me to buy it...

[@davideldridge5852]

Talking from the phone perspective here, get rid of the camera bumps, I would hope that it would solve the issue of some larger wireless chargers not working consistently due to not sitting flat enough!

[@BrianCairns]

Everyone seems to be ignoring the real reason that you don't necessarily want a bigger device with a bigger battery: weight. There are a lot of people that hold a tablet for an extended period of time, either as a content viewing device (watching videos, eBooks, whatever) or as part of their job (technicians running diagnostic software, doctors/nurses doing rounds, etc.). Even optimistically at 300Wh/kg, doubling the battery size (adding 35Wh) would make the device at least 120g heavier, or about 25% for the 11" version. I'm sure that there are people who would gladly want a 25% heavier device with double the battery life. But there are also a lot of people where the 8+ hours you get on an iPad is plenty already, who don't want to be holding that weight for an extended period of time. On a laptop, the priorities are different because a laptop is not designed to be hand-held. On a phone or a tablet, weight really matters for the ergonomics of the device.

[@JakeSDN]

Just my thoughts but I think there are several things happening with this iPad. The most impacting part is the M4 APU. They didn't skip the M3 for no reason, it was a financial decision. Apple was the only company using the process node used to make the M3, as such it was more expensive, than the process node that is being used to make the M4. As Apple goes up on iteration on these processors, heat has been becoming an issue. The M1s MacBooks are quieter than the M3 versions, they also generate less heat. Apple had to get the M4 closer to the back of the chassis in order to cool it down, that is why the Apple logo has copper now to help with that. Smaller battery size requires a display that uses less power, and that is OLED. In this case a Tandem OLED, a technology that has been out of the reach of many companies for years. Notice the price increase.

[@FernandoSantos07]

Dave, I agree with you but it's missing one variable to have in mind. More battery -> more weight. I think that 50% more weight is not a deal breaker. But in that regard, I find ON-time on most Ipads more that acceptable. By the way do you know any PCB design software usable in Ipad OS?

[@ameliabuns4058]

Wow, I never bought an ipad before because it's 0.3mm too thick, NOW I CAN FINALLY buy one!!!! seriously. they should focus on it not costing a kidney, and the air is only 60hz which for someone like me is a pain to stare at. the new apple pencil is great tho at least on theory, I tried thesurface pen and I loved the haptic feedback and missed it a lot when I got the air as a student, I ended up returning it back then for a pro but decided to not get either because it costs an insane amount, TBH I regret that a bit. tho I dropped out of college anyways. also, remember the macs? when they went thin and everyone hated it? They made the new gen thicker macs and immidietly, everyone fell in love. i have an m2 14" pro mac and I absolutely love it outside of the 16gb ram (which I constantly run out of...) but I can't upgrade now oof. the only thing I care about here is the new pencil TBH. even the m1 is overkill in an iPad IMO.

[@rokiedecentra9656]

my old Samung S5e is also very thin, just over the thickness of the USB port, I have to keep it in a case at all times and a rugged one since it flexes so easily - It is onyl 10 something inches... i cant imagine how easily that iPad will break at 13".......

[@TheAstronomyDude]

How come these batteries don't bloat? My production engineer said making a screen-battery-pcb sandwich is silly because eventually the pressure from the puffing battery would crack the screen.

[@BrettCooper4702]

Stronger anti flex case. Still want one for the M4 processor and LIDAR scanner.

[@Miller7747]

What about physical preperties? How well can it tolerate a bending torque without breaking it? How torcionally rigid is it?

[@graxxor]

Jerry Rig Everything is going to have a field day with this new model.

[@platin2148]

I prefer thicker and also some bigger batteries that can be replaced. Make it 10 or 15 or maybe 20 mm totally fine with it. Longer time working so one doesn’t have to charge that often and can we make it so that we can click the battery out and have some little battery if you switch it out.

[@attilarepasi6052]

I think there is a bigger issue here. What this focus on external dimensions show me, that they had no other idea, no actual feature to focus on. So even if they had the extra mm, they couldn't do anything with it, that would matter to enough people to be worth a marketing focus. Sure they could increase battery life, or even performance, but even the current performance or battery life is overkill for a product like this, so not enough people would care.

[@trahim2]

Hot take: maybe going thinner and shedding weight without dropping battery life could make a better product. If the efficiency gains of the new node make it possible, why not push the envelope? Agreed on the camera hump though.

[@hyrenaj2888]

Remember thinking this all the way back in 2013(?) when the Xperia Z came out. People kept touting how thin phones were getting and all incoild think was Id gladly take a 6-7mm phone for a replaceable battery thats 25% bigger

[@philippeastier7657]

It may even not be an exploit. I think that the new OLED display, even being dual-layered (which is VERY impressive : how do you align those two layers when producing in volume ?), is simply thinner than a standard LED display because of the lack of backlight ! Think about it. Now no matter the marketing, the amount of engineering is impressive.

[@Kwpolska]

Let’s try precise numbers: the previous iPad Pro (12.9 inches, 6th generation) was 5.9 mm thick with a 40.88 Wh battery. The new one (13-inch) is down to 5.1 mm, and is also down to 38.99 Wh. 0.8 mm = 1.89 Wh. The old iPad was also marketed to have a 10-hour battery life, the battery loss is only compensated by the more efficient chip, as opposed to improving it.

[@Diamond_dave1986]

Yeah the 6.9mm Lenovo xiaoxin 12.7" tablet I bought on AliExpress for $350 AUD will do just fine for me.

[@Damien.D]

with 1mm more the case would have been flush with the camera optics and the thing could lay flat on a table to be used with the pen it's designed to work with. Of course Apple solution to this is to add a 1mm thick rubbery iTravelCase(c)(tm) (only 89.99$) with a cutout for the camera. ....

[@dgo4490]

Where do I get a nice thick tablet, with a massive battery, decent performance and a real OS!

[@EEVblog]

"How about Fantasy Land", to quote Rodney Dangerfield.

[@dgo4490]

@@EEVblog So it is a market opportunity then, market - not marketing :)

[@pro100vald]

Microsoft surface?

[@MultiMojo]

Minisforum v3 with Linux might be a good choice.

[@Jimbaloidatron]

A laptop?! 😅You get a decent keyboard too! 🤔

[@AndreyK415]

Giving engineers limits drives them to innovate and make things better. If not for the drive to make things smaller, we'd still be using axial components instead of SMDs, IC parts instead of SoCs, etc.

[@AngusMcDangus]

You should make an OiPad with that extra battery life, plus a built-in thermal printer for Post-its. You'd make a mint. 😂😂

[@mohbit3336]

Hello ,dave can you do a review on Brymen BM357

[@grant-is]

Miniturisation is the aim of everything. It's how new products are developed. Engineers won't miniturise unless forced.

[@MickHealey]

You made the best comment ever, "marketing is clueless". I mean, how many customers have asked for a thinner iPad? Answer, none of them. How many customers have asked for longer battery life? Answer, all of them. Anyway, having that camera bulge, a thinner iPad is pointless - it doesn't sit flat on the table.

[@echelonrank3927]

apple needs to come up with a super expensive extra battery product with a cutout that eliminates the bulge and also a cheap version that blocks the camera to encourage sales of the much more expensive one. 🤑 and they should use titanium in the cheap version to stop people drilling their own holes for the camera.

[@MAYERMAKES]

Everybody will put a thick bumper case on it to get it up to a usable thickness anyway😅😅😅😅

[@calholli]

I think they purposely squeeze the battery down to reduce cost. If they doubled the battery life like you're saying.. They would have to actually give you twice the battery in materials, etc. Apple typically has 45% profit margin on their products.. The price of these things would be bonkers if they gave double the battery.. To me the prices are already beyond anything I would even consider, as it is.

[@academicpachyderm5155]

There's another angle which is that smaller batteries are cheaper to include, so by shaving battery size in the name of "thinness", they're also saving on bom cost. Marketing AND Bean counters against engineers? They never stood a chance. PR would probably spin it as "lithium consumption reduction: our latest Environmental initiative"

[@echelonrank3927]

designed to conform to apples zero material consumption by 2030 environmental initiative

[@sonic2000gr]

The mm obsession is ridiculous. As if I am going to carry this bloody thing in my pocket. Just make it 2,3,4,5 mm thicker and give me the battery life.

[@buckaroobonsi555]

Give me hot swapable batteries like old school laptops and old school cell phones!

[@MaakaSakuranbo]

Amusingly already has better battery life than android tablets I tried

[@Megabean]

Its funny, with the Apple Silicon Macbooks they did give themselves a couple extra mm's of room and those are the best Macbooks since the Retina in 2013. Better keyboards, more thermal headroom

[@DeadManWalking4574]

Add 0,5mm to any car sheet metal and the car would last 20 years instead of "deliberately" designed 10 years. Marketing goes ballistic on the proposal.

[@rdoursenaud]

Except this shaving makes sense in a car where the weight is a huge factor in fuel economy. Not that modern cars are getting lighter though…

[@joeynessily]

Thought you were going to get the ratio of battery volume to total device volume in the old model.. then assume the same volume of battery ratio in the new device… to give a rough idea on Wh of the new one… then you could increase the dimensions thickness of the new one and calculate the battery volume and Wh.. then work out the number of hours of battery life. … or is that all the same as what you did? 😂

[@thedanyesful]

Personally I'm more interested in the weight. To me, a tablet at a weight of more than 340g is really just a laptop with no keyboard included. The iPad Mini is a true tablet form factor. I wish they'd upgrade that one to OLED.

[@xanderlander8989]

I suspect Apple people care about how thin it is. Form over function is the Apple way.