EEVblog

[@SirBunghole]

Companies often use the degree as a crude filter. Its is very crude indeed as most freshly minted EEs are very naive. Education really starts on the day you start your fist job... and then fail.

[@redsquirrelftw]

I was a server tech contractor at a hospital and I applied to another job as I wanted to get out of that environment for many reasons. At the same time they were also thinking of in-sourcing (hiring their own techs instead of using our service) so they had a job offer out to replace me. The requirements were set so high I didn't even qualify for my own job. I thought that was hilarious. They wanted like 5 years of university and other BS like that. And I agree so much that education starts on the first day at the job. Most of the stuff I learned in school does not apply to any job I worked in. I'm in telecom now and the stuff we work with is so niche there is no other place to really learn it, than at this job. DMS10, DMS100 etc... maybe in the 70's there was courses for that, but not now.

[@johnyang799]

In UNSW, we need 60 working days internship in order to graduate. And there are really a lot of stuff to learn in the whole 4 years. Real working experience is really important indeed. But for the people who think they don't need a degree and learn stuff on the internet and become an engineer, that's completely naive. What I am saying is, sure the "degree" isn't necessary, but the knowledge in a complete package is crucial.

[@johnyang799]

@Gregory Boddin I think it only works in ee if the side projects are related to the job. If my side projects are low distortion audio amplifiers and i apply for embedded system design or digital processing, it won't work.

[@robertw1871]

Exactly... nothing worse than a noob fish in the engineering dept lol... takes a few years of getting ur ass handed to you via the laws of physics (real world vs theory) not agreeing with your conclusions to get humbled lol.... there are no exceptions to this rule...

[@km5405]

I swear its amazing some students pass at all. a crude filter indeed.

[@aonutube]

Q: So what are your qualifications? A: watched lots of eevblog vids. Q: Congrats, you got the job!

[@JohnSmith-lp9jd]

Q: So candidate two, what are your qualifications? A: I have watched all the deleted AvE vidyas too.

[@fahey5719]

which is flipping burgers, go get your apron.

[@irawarnaca8133]

Dave, you have been saying this for years. I followed your advice years ago, and started my first official engineer role last year. I spent 6 years studying online, and volunteering for projects at work to build my resume with verifiable work experience. Thank you for helping me realize my goals!

[@ADR69]

Even resumes are upside down in Australia!

[@lolaa2200]

It's the same in europe. Note that he was talking about the resumes when you already got your foot in the door. For your first job of course you put your diplomas first because you don't have much more to show. But when you haver been working for few years in the field then it's your experience that you place on top.

[@TodayTestfbsfbsfbs]

@@lolaa2200 that's true but you first need to find a job without a degree. A lot of companies want to see a degree before you get your first job :).

[@iglidor]

@@TodayTestfbsfbsfbs That reminds me that nice catch 22 we have in my country (and which probably other countries have too). You go to school to become electrician/engineer but to be allowed to practice your profession you need to have license (based on test where you prove that you at least theoreticaly know what you are doing). But to be allowed to apply for that license, you need to have 1-2 years of experience working with electricity (depending on what type of license you want). Do you see the issue here? :-D What you are allowed to do is to get lesser license that does not require any experience first, but which require you to work only under someones direct supervision (who has the higher license). At this point, you may think that this make sense. Inexperienced people have to work alongside experienced ones for year or two before they can get their proper license. And from logical view it does make sense. But in reality, almost everyone is hiring only people who already have the higher license so job opportunities where you could get your years of experience are either rare or are that kind of jobs where you get paid very little and with lot of overtimes for work that trained monkeys could do. So basicaly to get your papers for working with electricity, you either need to have good conections with someone who can give you good job where they are willing to teach you as you go, or you need to prepare for 2 years of misserable job just so you can get your papers and find better one. Not really ideal state of things but it kinda works.

[@TodayTestfbsfbsfbs]

@@iglidor yes this is true. The problem here is humans are dumb and when there is money involved they do all to exploit the situation.

[@medovaca]

Toilet cleaners in Australia are calling themself a sanitarian engineers.

[@catherinetrudel3085]

I did 2 years to become an electromecanician never worked in that field then i did a 3 year course to become an electronics technician, I worked hard, did crappy "part swapping" jobs and now i'm working in R&D, I design medical devices and I can do EMI complicance tests. NEVER GIVE UP, punch your way through because no one is going to give you a chance.

[@EEVblog]

Nice!

[@catherinetrudel3085]

@@EEVblog And I'm in Canada where I can't technically call myself an engineer... But i'm not going to go back to school and do electronics theory and math for 4 years just to go back doing what I'm doing right now.

[@kylesmithiii6150]

Congratulations! There were about 25 students who started and finished together my BSEE course, and only less than 5 were women. They were the most innovative in project design by far. I remember that their designs were more simple and efficient than those of the guys. They all got employed easy those days. I am a Generation X guy. My first job was to repair CPUs for DEC computers - mostly boring but I learned good stuff. Then the Mobile Telephony and the Internet booming was beneficial for us those days. There were good jobs then in multinationals. China was not a huge player then. I eventually moved to the Sales & Marketing area of Telecom/IT. I am happy. Another plus is to learn other languages to open more horizons in one's career. Networking w/ people in the industry and attending some major trade shows and conferences is beneficial too.

[@brianaicheler7084]

I fully agree, its in the hands of the individual. Dont put up with any nonsense about not having the right qualifications., thats just employer crap. I have worked for many different employers, did a 5 year apprenticeship in the armed services, After 13 years of working as a tech with some really crap low paying employers, studied part time for two degrees, continued with working for new employers gaining experience and ended up as a team lead in R&D for a top level organisation in defence. Just keep pushing through all the bull crap and follow your own path to achieve what you want to achieve, it is possible. Yes and dont give up.

[@PhilippBlum]

I would prefer hiring you! People without a degree tend to fight more, to educate themselves all the time. To keep up with their knowledge. To be more critical. All important attributes.

[@alexwild4350]

While most are asking how to get into Electronics, Mr Bean was one of the cleverer ones who worked out a way to get out of it.

[@aoeuidhtnsnthdiueoa]

Can't re-iterate enough how important it is to bring your personal projects to interviews. I brought two revisions of a PCB and a few printouts of the schematic, logic diagrams, etc. They put some of their projects on the table so I reached into my bag and said "here's some of the work I've done." After hiring me, they said I was the only one out of about ~50 interviewees who did that.

[@EEVblog]

Yep! Hardly anyone does it!

[@aoeuidhtnsnthdiueoa]

@@EEVblog Apparently. All through school I watched your videos harping on how important it is to bring props to a job interview and, well, you were right! Thanks!

[@harrywhite7287]

I did the same thing. I call it show and tell. Dropped a few pcb's on the table and had the schematics to back it up. I also always put my name somewhere on the pcb's I've created.

[@jardel_lucca]

I did it a few days ago. The job was almost totally software engineering. Though I'm a software engineer at my current job, that PCB scared them. So if you are a jack of all trades like me, be careful bringing PCBs to interviews. Also, my PCB was home made with a home made milling machine. Maybe too crude to the eyes of industry guys .

[@TodayTestfbsfbsfbs]

yeah when i got my first job in computer science i did the same thing. Actually i send my DVD with my self programmed Space Invaders to my resumee.

[@LiamTronix]

Wow, things are very different in Ontario, Canada. You aren't even allowed to call yourself an engineer AFTER you get the university degree. You have to get FOUR YEARS of work experience first!

[@EEVblog]

What happens if you do call yourself an engineer?

[@LiamTronix]

@@EEVblog You will be fined $10,000 for the first offence, and $25,000 for each subsequent offence, by the Professional Engineers Ontario (PEO) Edit: Source www.peo.on.ca/index.php?ci_id=1824&la_id=1

[@stephenramjist2065]

Link to enforcement action section from Professional Engineers of Ontario (PEO) website. www.peo.on.ca/index.php?ci_id=1824&la_id=1 You could be subject to significant monetary penalties for using the term Engineer when you are not certified as a Professional Engineer (P. Eng). Under an act passed by the Province of Ontario, the PEO is authorized to regulate and license the engineering profession in Ontario. Hope this answers your question.

[@Willy_Tepes]

Free speech is a human right. Mandating other peoples speech is not. It was a good example of the insanity that has overtaken the west. Creating regulations and new laws creates "jobs" in the government. That is often the only point behind them.

[@djdannypachy]

As with medicine and law, you require a licence (P. Eng) to do certain engineering work within the province of Ontario. Certain work must be completed or approved by a professional engineer, for example, engineering drawings, which require sign-off. You require a licence if: Your work requires you to design, compose, evaluate, advise, report, direct or supervise and The work will safeguard life, health, property or the public welfare and The work requires the application of engineering principles. Referenced from Professional Engineers of Ontario (PEO): www.peo.on.ca/index.php?ci_id=2038&la_id=1

[@Willy_Tepes]

In Norway it is completely insane. You can't work with anything unless you have formal qualifications. I used to work on fighter aircraft but can't work as a automobile mechanic because I lack the papers. This all supports an industry of schools, government administration and also create loads of student debt. I am surrounded by idiots with Bachelor and Masters degrees that have no experience from real life and who earn more than me just because of a paper. I had to totally redesign a instrument fixture that was drawn in a way that was impossible to produce. My design had to be redrawn by a "engineer" because I was "not qualified" to design such things. Bloody frustrating!

[@EEVblog]

Here in Australia I'm not legally allowed to change a power point.

[@johnfrancisdoe1563]

EEVblog Here in Denmark (otherwise very similar to Norway), I believe "Engineer" (or at least some derived words) is legally restricted to those with an official diploma in that subject (currently BSc or MSc). But this is for the title. There are lots of jobs also open to lower or no qualifications, but without the diploma, no "engineer" in the title. As for changing a wall socket, this is restricted to certified "electrical installers", which requires a specific craftsman education OR a specific type of EE education plus designated work experience under the supervision of either a power company or a licensed electrician. The bureaucracy to add that craftsman license to your engineer status has grown exponentially over the past 50 years, and it's now a rare exception rather than something lots of EEs manage to get just for the occasional need. There are however a lot of things that complete amateurs can do with mains stuff, plus a mutual recognition of licensing from other EU countries that allows foreign hacks to take the jobs.

[@TMS5100]

sounds like authoritarian nanny state to me.

[@HaraldSangvik]

I worked as an engineer with just a vocational degree. But of course it's easier to get a job with formal education.

[@Willy_Tepes]

@@user-jp1qt8ut3s Well, this system allows electricians to hike their prices and generates revenue for the state. You have to break the rules in such a society to keep your sanity. Literally the first thing Norwegians ask about when confronted with a problem is "am I allowed to fix it?".

[@Galdo145]

As someone with an engineering degree in the US, I can say that in many states the term 'Professional Engineer' is a protected term. It means you have very specific qualifications, of which I do not have (varies state to state). In most states, you can call yourself an engineer, a mechanical engineer, a civil engineer, etc, but the term 'Professional Engineer' is special.

[@Pops180]

Correct. It's divided into FE (fundamental engineer) which is a qualification that can be received after undergrad. Then there is PE (professional engineer) which is received after a few years in the field. I'm a EE PE but it really doesnt mean much nowadays. I think it's a bigger deal with civil and mechanical engineers

[@EEVblog]

Here only the term "Chartered Engineer" is kinda protected, and even then I don't think there is any law they can actually stop you with.

[@spectrex709]

As a certified professional engineer in the US who orginally completed my engineering degree in Canada and then did my FE and PE in the US, I concur with your statement to back you up lol. The engineering board in Oregon should have known that they "didn't have a leg to stand on" in court when the guy is calling himself and "engineer" only. The decision WOULD have been very different if it was documented that he said he was a "professional engineer". I do agree that there is a bit of snobbery with the "Professional Engineering" title in the US but that is a rule of the "game" in the country. Though the distinction is warranted more in some disciplines, especially regarding legal responsibilities, ethics, etc.

[@RS-ls7mm]

Professional engineer status only seems to be required for government jobs in the US. Never saw one required outside of government. Its difficult to be hired as an electrical engineer without at least a masters degree these days. It also helps if you have some practical experience by being an apprentice/COOP/intern while in school. Really helped me.

[@robertw1871]

Even for PE you only need 4 years of work experience and have passed the exam, no degree is required. It used to be the same for lawyers, all you had to do was pass the bar exam, I believe you must have a Juris Doctorate now though to even apply for the bar exam, but for engineering, I believe it’s still just sitting for the 8 hour exam... PE is only required for very specific things in electronics though and very few EEs have a PE, in my experience anyway.

[@ResurrectionofMC]

In Germany you need an „Engineering“ degree because the Title „Ingenieur“ german for engineer is Since 1970 protected in Germany, with the Engineering Law. And companys cant sell Engineering Services if the work isnt done by an graduated engineer.

[@adlerweb]

Well, in germany you're also officially not allowed to touch a wire that might carry mains unless you've got 2/3 years of training...

[@ResurrectionofMC]

PhilfreezeCH you are right. This is how it works in Germany too. I think You are allowed to wire a lightbulb or something like this.

[@ResurrectionofMC]

BitBastelei für eine Komplette Hausinstallation macht das meiner Meinung nach auch wohl Sinn. Da muss ein Meister das sogar noch abnehmen. Und ich bin mir nicht sicher aber ich meine man darf an den Kabeln die aus der Wand kommen auch selber was anschließen. Steckdosen anklemmen oder Lampen dran machen. Denn Tischlerrein und so holen sich ja auch keinen Elektriker der die Steckdosen und Lampen anschließt. 🤔 das wäre meine Vermutung wieso man das vielleicht doch darf.

[@adlerweb]

@@ResurrectionofMC Kommt halt immer drauf an wen man fragt. In den eher konservativen Kreisen gilt zumeist: Alles ohne EFK darf nur Dinge anschließen, die einen Stecker haben. Wird natürlich dadurch begünstigt, dass Arbeiten nach VDE erfolgen müssen, die aber preislich eher nur was für Gewerbliche ist. Am Ende entscheidet rein rechtlich der lokale Energieversorger. (Depends who you ask. Conservatives usually tell you untrained people would only be allowed to connect or disconnect appliances which feature a plug. Also works have to adhere to VDE norms, which are not public and pricewise only feasible if you're running a business. Legally the local power grid operator calls the shots.)

[@MetalheadAndNerd]

The unspecific German word Ingenieur is often mixed up with the protected title Diplomingenieur which is a kind of university degree in engineering. In the last decade Diplomingenieur has been phased out as a degree in favor of bachelor or master of xxx engineering for internationalization reasons.

[@FranLab]

I'm not an engineer, but I play one on TV!

[@kylesmithiii6150]

I watch your videos and like them very much. I have a BSEE but you know electronics by far more than I do. I've recently repaired my Equalizer/SEA with a vacuum fluorescent display and one of your videos helped me a lot. Thank you.

[@stephenwabaxter]

An Entrepreneur most certainly.

[@robertw1871]

After 30+ years in the industry, I’ve known many many people that had no degree, more often than not they were better than degreed engineers, because they learned the hard way and loved what they were doing. All you have to do is learn as much as you can from wherever you can keep applying to every job you think you will be able to do offer to take entry level jobs to get your foot in the door. It’s takes a lot of hard work but that’s all one has to do....

[@fahey5719]

I also know lots of people who are very good at what they do, but only *there* and nowhere else (unless it´s VERY closely related). And give the degreed ones, not 30 years but 1 or 2 and they will reach and then surpass the "empirical" guy.

[@bigfoottoo2841]

I have worked with numerous electronics engineers over the years. And let me say there is a big difference in the way an engineer with an engineering degree approaches a design project verses a technologist. The EE uses a systematic approach with the confidence of good understanding supporting him. The technologist draws on his past experience and often ends up frustrated and stressed to the max. I worked with a very bright man with a PHD in a different field who designed custom circuits for research. He got the jobs done but without the confidence gained from a proper education, his stress level was often off the charts. Comments from USA

[@crazyahhkmed]

What degree do you get to become a technologists?

[@zer0b0t]

How does Dave change a light bulb? He doesn't, they fall down on him.

[@zer0b0t]

sorry

[@trevorvanbremen4718]

@@zer0b0t Pretty sure that was a case of piss-poor engineering?

[@jimgrady7458]

How many Daves does it take to change a light bulb? We don't know, he doesn't done it successfully yet!

[@shakaibsafvi97]

May be it's something bad he said.... :) It was a sign.... lol

[@Rainbow__cookie]

Sounds like linus from linusdroptips 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@chrisbroome]

OMG that light falling down was the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. I don't get out much.

[@craigs5212]

Fully agree with Dave. You need to let some blue smoke out and blow up a few caps/FET's. For my senior project way back in the early 70's I built 500Mhz frequency counter, which still works today. Built my own boards, power supply and chassis. Took it to my first job interview, had the entire department looking over the guts, got the job offer call the next morning. You are an engineer if you believe your are an engineer. One good question to ask at an interview, "does the company provide assistance for a masters or PHD ?" Shows you are interested in always learning. Now I am a Gentleman of Leisure and Consultant on all Subjects! but still dabbling with Arduinos and ESP32's

[@jaguarpaw1638]

they had electricity back in the 70s? WOW

[@joaodgm]

@@jaguarpaw1638 they even went to the moon either!

[@janmoeller80]

here in Germany: the more overengineered your educational background is, the better ;)

[@bfapple]

Sadly so; I’d need to try a masters again.

[@Elec-DIY]

Thanks Dave, I studied an Electronic engineering degree and I'm about to flunk out at the 3rd year. I learned from business management to sewer pipe dimensioning, but I've yet to learn what a register in a microcontroller is. I lost all motivation to keep studying, your video gives me some hope.

[@VK2GPU]

I done software engineering at uni, and work in the games industry. The question of "do you need a degree?" often comes up. Need? Not necessarily. Does having one help? A lot, usually just for getting a foot in. Although 3-4 years at uni won't beat a couple of years professional experience, and a degree alone isn't gonna make you stand out on its own. Folks with degrees are a dime a dozen - good to see this covered in the video! Too many people think the degree is all you need. If you're wanting to move abroad and need to apply for a visa, the degree is almost always a must-have though. So want to work abroad? Get the degree now to make it easier later.

[@EEVblog]

Interesting about the working abroad aspect, it could certainly come into play in skilled working VISA's or something.

[@VK2GPU]

@@EEVblog Been there myself! Known some folks who had difficulty getting a visa in the US, even though it was just a transfer in the same company, and they had several years experience in their job. Varies highly on industry and skill sets, but visas aren't getting easier.

[@avishkarseth1955]

Starting my Masters in Electronics Engineering At Sydney Macquarie University this Feb.. Love your Videos @David.! Very helpful

[@EEVblog]

Have fun.

[@9UWmember]

I'm just finishing the first year in my four year electrical engineering degree (where I guess I'll "major" in automation) and I think that the education is indeed worth it if you can get it, but far from mandatory. The biggest point in the education is getting the theoretical base, the system of thought and refinement of your learning strategies that really help in many things, even if they're not 100% applicable to every real world situation.

[@RavenLuni]

Thats pretty cool. Software engineer here (UK) being more involved in electronics lately. You just gave me a self confidence boost. Thankyou :)

[@SevenFortyOne]

I'm in the US and have two associates degrees (electronic and mechanical). I've worked for 3 companies over the last 25 years. I was at the first company for 21 years and became an electronics manufacturing engineer after about 7 years of hard work and demonstrating ability. I even did a stint in sales engineering for them. I left there and went to a company that manufactured life safety equipment. I worked there 4 years and they wouldn't even let me in the lab because I didn't have a batchelors degree. I left that place 6 months ago and went to an aerospace company that gave me an engineering title and is encouraging me to involve myself in any engineering projects I want to. Moral of the story is that in mu experience the ability to be an "engineer" depends on the people you surround yourself with.

[@nordexo]

Thanks for the encouraging words. currently looking for a new job. maybe it's time to change profession from IT to Electronic Engineering seeing my interests in electronics.

[@rfcarlson1]

In the US "registered engineers" are licensed by the individual states. Engineers that work on systems that affect public safety -- civil, structural, etc. -- usually need registration because of potential legal liability connected to their projects. Same with surveyors and architects. Electrical engineers that work on power line system for utilities fall into this category. The path to registration is either a degree and passing a basic standardized engineering exam called the FE exam, or a number of years of documented experience. The FE (fundamentals of engineering) exam used to be called the EIT exam -- engineer in training. It has multiple sections and covers the material from most college engineering classes and all disciplines (civil, elec, mech) take the same exam. After a number of years (like 4) of documented work history and the FE exam certificate you're allowed to take the PE (Professional Engineer) exam. This exam is specialized -- separate exam for electrical, civil, mechanical engineers. The exams are all day affairs. After notified of passing and paying a fee to the state (like $500) you get to call yourself a Registered Engineer and buy a stamp. Most college grads take (or did when I went through this) the FE/EIT exam right around college graduation. If you don't and need to later in your career you'll have to review all those college physics, chemistry, static, dynamics, etc. courses. I don't think many electrical engineers take the 2nd exam unless they work on power lines, nuclear plant controls, elevator controls,or the like. The Army Corps of Engineers used to encourage it's engineers to gain registration (want to get promoted?). Usually, if a company worked of systems that required an engineer's seal there'd be one PE that would review the plans and apply a seal or a consultant would be hired for the project to review the plans and seal them.

[@raymondragodon8048]

Yup! How right you. I'm a self taugh engineer doing engineering circuit dsegning for almost 50 years. Now retired. I'm an Artist painter by college degree. Still keeping up with the electroniscs industry trends a good hobby now oldtmers like me.thanks you still got a lot contribute to world more power to you Dave! God Bless! Be safe

[@benjaneering]

Thanks Dave! I have a 2 year degree and have been engineering for ~ 4 years including being a lead engineer on many projects. I live in the USA and here for whatever reason I'm still titled a Technician. Even though my peers refer to me as an engineer. Turns out HR basically uses the 4yr degree (which I am currently pursuing) as an excuse to underpay guys like me. But, you're right I need to start calling myself an engineer. Thanks for the encouragement, sounds like Australia is a cool place albeit upside down. Stay cool Dave!

[@EEVblog]

That sucks! Maybe time to move on?

[@Giblet535]

A year ago, I couldn't even spell "engineer". Now, I are one. IEEE will recognize you as a respected engineering colleague if you pay their membership dues. That gets you past an HR busybody, but doesn't buy you much in an interview. Contributing Member of the Free Software Foundation, however...

[@catherinetrudel3085]

Funny thing that you talk about bringing a project, I did that a few times years ago when I didn't had much experience and I was looked at as if I was an extraterrestrial. To me it's obvious that i would consider more a candidate that would show his actual work but I guess that I'm in the minority around Montreal.

[@killernat]

still like that Ive brought documentation packages to show potential employers my work and no one gave a shit managed to get a job without even having a face to face interview 2 phone interviews and we are gonna fly you out to our head office to do introductory training

[@Anonymouspock]

Looks like the guy who designed the light fixture flunked out of their engineering degree 😂🤣

[@asm_nop]

In my region of Canada, we have 3 levels. Engineering Technologist (2-year diploma + employment experience) is powerless. Professional Technologist (2-year diploma + *lots* of employment experience) can stamp their own engineering documents. Professional Engineer (4-year degree) can stamp engineering documents.

[@VndNvwYvvSvv]

In US and other places, engineer means a degree, and professional engineer means certification for licensing and the ability to legally sign off on designs.

[@scotshabalam2432]

Thanks Dave! The world needs more engineers. Did you see the last CES? The world needs more engineers!

[@GiancarloAllasia]

Here in Italy there is the bachelor degree (3 years), the master degree (2 years) and then you can work as an engineer, but you cannot define yourself offically an Engineer, because you still need to pass a big State exam to be considered part of the Order of Engineers (and so having the permission to sign and approve big projects).

[@danielhawkins3392]

Wow absolutely great advice. Will definitely remember the tips on avoiding the HR department.

[@martinkuliza]

hehe Daniel..... Anyone who says WILL DEFINITELY REMEMBER TO AVOID HR is a beginner no mate... REPEAT AFTER ME..... " HR ARE FUCKWITS" hehe also.... "EMPLOYMENT MANAGERS ARE FUCKWITS" the reality is, as dave put very lightly, HR People don't have a fucking clue Neither do employment managers in most cases they haven't a fucking clue of what the job entails and to them an engineer is really cool label they are literally a waste of time when you're applying for a job (thats why dave says BYPASS THEM) You know how you apply for a job and then you wait like 2 months THAT'S BECAUSE HR ARE MAKING YOU WAIT THAT'S BECAUSE THE EMPLOYMENT MANAGER IS SAYING SHIT LIKE "Oh, we haven't finalized things yet and i'm still in and out of meetings let's TOUCH BASE next week" hehe They are non committed people who are a fucking waste of time, YOU REALLY NEED TO GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD also... Engineer's see them as a fucking joke and as for employment managers, the actual person in a company that is issuing the job see's the employment manager as a joke but THEY SERVE A PURPOSE they call themselves EMPLOYMENT MANAGERS we call them FILTERS we hire them to filter the dickheads from the Resume and Job Hunting Queue, THAT'S THEIR ROLE. They in turn (THEY usually being... some teenage person who is super chuffed to have scored a large client) get excited about getting the contract Their focus is - to have a large number of people on back log, so they can show off to their client (your boss) that they have literally hundreds of people waiting for a job NOW.. I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT THIS, OK if they have Hundreds of people WAITING FOR A JOB *THAT'S WHY YOU'RE WAITING MONTHS FOR A POSITION* got it ? don't be a paper in a pile of paper's that no one gives a fuck about Especially when that pile of papers come from a person who is considered to be a fucking joke hehe see how that works LITTLE TIP... Avoiding HR is not easy But, if you're applying for an engineering role AND YOU SUCCESSFULLY NAVIGATE THE HR MINE FIELD - IT PROVES YOU'RE NOT A FUCKWIT - IT PROVES YOU KNOW HOW TO BE RESOURCEFUL - IT PROVES YOU KNOW HOW TO AVOID CERTAIN THINGS TO BE EFFICIENT - IT PROVES YOU KNOW HR ARE A WASTE OF TIME IT TAKES A CERTAIN LEVEL OF INTELLIGENCE TO BE ABLE TO AVOID HR so.. if you do that, you get respect just for avoiding them hehe IT'S TRUE and then if the bloke hiring looks at you he's gonna say to himself "Ok, ... if i hire this guy i know he's not a fuckwit at the very least, Unlike the bunch of idiots in the resume pile who couldn't even gather enough intelligence to bypass HR" so.. again.. Remember that and repeat after me HR ARE FUCKWITS EMPLOYMENT MANAGERS ARE FUCKWITS they are time wasters and should be avoided at all costs Remember that and you'll do well QUICK SIDE NOTE i have helped many people find jobs almost all of them told me they were waiting 2 - 3 months for a response (stop and think about HOW FUCKING STUPID THIS SOUNDS) to put your life on hold for 3 months when you're already broke in every case, i got the person a job within, let's say 10 days but usually a week it's a number's game, ok i normally do this - we sit down in front of a computer with a webcam and a mic, TO RECORD THE PERSON - i get the person to find a job (i pay attention to how they search and what they look for ) Usually they believe that they can't have certain jobs but they can - then when the job is found, i get them to make THE CALL and see how they speak, THIS IS RECORDED. i don't tell them to not call HR, i don't tell them to not call Employment agencies THEY USUALLY ALWAYS DO BOTH they usually always talk in a submissive voice They usually never push - i basicaly use the employment manager as training for the person, there is never any intention that the person is going to get the job through this person, even if it's offered to them. the manager's role here is "TRAINING PLATFORM" hehe they call, they fuck up i then call the same job 15mins later and i get the job i then call the next day and say "sorry, i've been offered another role, but thanks for the opportunity " then they say "how did you do that" and i then tell them i then get them to call another employment manager and keep practicing when they get it, i then get them to call the actual person they need to call AND TO DO IT DIRECTLY and then they get the job SIMPLE AS THAT it's just practice after being taught how to do it properly These people that i have taught now have jobs in the ballpark of $60k - $90k from getting the job and then promotions after that if you start off as a bitch in the industry you will never achieve much and everyone see's you as such also, if you have 2 roles you're looking at - One is .. let's say (lets use I.T. Jobs ok) Help Desk Technician , it pays $40k a year it requires basic compute skills, troubleshooting, knowledge of microsoft platforms and all that basic shit - the other pays $60k, they call it I.T. engineer or System's Administration Engineer (Because it sounds cool) it requires all of the above + Citrix + Cisco Systems + LPI would be an advantage this kind of role would scare the shit out of a person who is starting off the reality is.... the employment manager KIND OF FIGURED that the client want's someone better than WHAT SHE NORMALLY GIVES THEM so.. SHE THREW IN A FEW BIG WORDS, that's all it is the reality is.... a person probably wouldn't need the Linux skils as for the Cisco Skills , Most people will teach you onsite , it's good if you have CCNA and so on, but it's not necessary but applying for this and getting it is the difference in lifestlye between $40k and $60k it's the difference between being a bitch and earning the equivalent of the income of 2 people SO, KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WELL be cool mate

[@MarkPalmer1000]

At the college I work at, I see the students who get the easier to accomplish EET degree making out just as well career wise as those getting the full EE degree.

[@granttaylor3697]

100% right, all comes down to if you can do the job or not. This is why I like working as a contractor, it gives you the freedom to take on some very interesting projects.

[@kb1qzh]

Thank you for this! I'm finding the longer I've been in Australia, the more it feels like I can do the things I want to do. Much different than the US. Failed out of an engineering school in the US and it always stuck in me. Got an opportunity for a job transfer to Sydney and it's been a very nice change of pace. Getting to come back to interests

[@MikeBramm]

In most cases, an employer is looking to hire someone because they need to get a project completed, not because they have money to burn on extra employees. During an interview, the degree simply means you've completed some college courses, it doesn't necessarily mean you have much experience with hardware or know how to use the required tools. Sure, there will probably be some on-the-job training and new tools to learn, but the more experience you have the better. Being able to hit the ground running will certainly make you a better prospective employee. In Math class, the teach always said to "show your work" because it proves you didn't cheat. I think bringing projects that you've made to an interview is an excellent way to show the prospective employer that you know how to do things. Remember "show and tell" in school? It usually leads to a nice conversation about your projects and gives you the chance to really talk about it, what tools you needed to learn, how you researched the various parts, how the project failed, and what you did to get it working. It proves that you have the ability to learn, design, build, debug and fix projects to bring them to completion. Be proud of your accomplishments (and failures) and sell yourself. At the least, it will move your resume to the "highly considered" stack (instead of the trash can), if not bring you a job offer. What nerd doesn't want to see other cool nerdy projects??? I sure do.

[@oldschoolelectronics8573]

Thanks for the advice Dave. I personally want to be an electrical engineer in the future and this vid gave some good insight on the subject.

[@velikiradojica]

In my country one can work as an engineer in any field without any qualifications but you have to finish either a 3 or 4 year course in order to get a protected title and you have to have MSc, 3 years of work experience in the field and be a member of the chamber of engineers in order to be able to sign off on a project/product.

[@biologicalagent]

Hi Dave. Love the video. It’s much the same here in the USA. For most positions that do not *require* a degree /certification - such as civil engineering and doctors - once you have that first job, no employer cares about your educational background.

[@seabreezecoffeeroasters7994]

Some of the WORST engineers I have worked with or done work for are recent Graduates who 'knew the theory' and some of the BEST were old school Diploma Qualified ones that know how it really is. Unqualified Radio Amateurs run rings around a lot with ZERO Quals.

[@Rama_Guru]

I been told I don't know, but.... well, the young know far less

[@seabreezecoffeeroasters7994]

@@Rama_Guru As an EE I have had to give more than one lesson to some Graduate Mech Eng's over the years in particular about real world engineering :)

[@Rama_Guru]

@@seabreezecoffeeroasters7994 well, i may be wrong, but its got header and header to do anything in life.... as i got older its far header to .... just live, never mind a skill.

[@Rama_Guru]

@@seabreezecoffeeroasters7994 its sad that school is not really supporting stubents. In the USA its almost impossible..... unless ... you paid a scam school, funny the USA is so well knowen for scam school... funny ya..... or ....well its fits in with Trump.. Sas ya

[@km5405]

practice makes perfect. I miss a lot of practice .... but the practice is what makes a engineer, even if some ''engineers'' could use a little bit more theory sometimes as well.

[@yoramstein]

Becoming good prof engineer has to do with good theoretical knowledge , Love for the profession and lots of experience. All 3 aspects are essential.

[@Miata822]

Haven't finished watching yet. Googling "moving to Australia"

[@EEVblog]

We already have 3.1 people per sq km, so sorry, we're full.

[@basshead.]

There's always room in Summer Bay.

[@jimgrady7458]

I've heard a lot of horror stories over the past year about how "bikies" are being targeted in Oz

[@difflocktwo]

@@Miata822 As intended? you mean on a track?

[@difflocktwo]

@@Miata822 Well if there's no one to witness it, no problem. Kinda forced to live in fear, or should I just let a car run me over?

[@chriswouse7713]

I got a 3rd grade BEng and started in a dusty warehouse repairing welding equipment for bugger all. BUT IT WAS A START. From there I got a job as an assemble technician on submersibles, then as a lab tech and started design PCBs, then ended up designing circuit boards for medical grade equipment. Nothing is beneath you, each jobs is an opportunity to learn something new, if you’re involved and show what you’ve worked on and what you know, then your degree just shows you’ve got the knowledge but the work shows you’ve got the knack!

[@LifeofanElectronicEngineer]

I got a position at the European Space Agency as a power electronics engineer (part of their young graduate trainee program). After the CV/cover letter and online video interviews, I took loads of things I made all the way over to the Netherlands and showed them in my interview (things like a buck converter I made, 3 phase inverter, single phase inverter, and even a 3D printed solar filter to take image of the sun, plus a picture of the sun that it took!) And it worked really well. Most of the interview we spoke about my projects, which of course I already knew a lot about after spending agrees making them. It meant there was less time for tricky interview questions, and more time on my projects!

[@mindaugasvaskevicius1818]

I got a 4 year bachelor electronics and electric engineer, where they gave 99% theoretical and 1% how to apply the knowledge. Learned a lot more while working in 3 months than in the uni.. and then after two years new collegue tough me even more. Now after 4,5 years with me degree and robotics masters degree, after designing several sertified products(from schematic to thermal cycle testing of a finished product) I still dont consider my self a professional engineer.

[@PlanetFrosty]

In electrical and telecom engineering in US no one cares about a degree. Only if you’re doing civil engineering does it matter when you need to get a stamp, but once you get a professional engineering degree you have to carry liability insurance.

[@programmingtips404]

Thanks Dave! I've got a degree from eevaccadamy, so thanks for the encouragement!

[@briancox2721]

Here in the State of Michigan, USA, nobody calls themselves a "Professional Engineer" unless they go and get their PE "stamp," which is a registration by the state that allows you to sign off on the designs of buildings and other structures. As you can imagine, only civil engineers tend to go through the trouble. Someone calling themselves an "Engineer" is understood to work in the field as their career and usually has a 4 year degree. A "technician" is typically someone with vocation school education or 2 year degree. I myself have a degree in mechanical engineering with a minor in electrical. I've worked as a manufacturing, project, welding, and quality engineer. I typically just use the title "Engineer," but hopefully in a few months I'll get to call myself "lawyer."

[@mr_stgo8414]

Good message! But still, that LED sound/VU/spectrum tower is very distracting! Where did you got it? Is one of those DYI thingys that one have to assemble? I want one!

[@EEVblog]

Mailbag video a while ago.

[@arisk4]

@@EEVblog is there a link for it?

[@manuprakash8456]

After wasting so many years (BE, ME, PhD-dropout) pursuing electronics engineering, I had to start my own consultancy. Now I am doing fairly well. That's my story from India. I wanna associate with someone outside India to improve my knowledge and skills. Anyone...!

[@Mromfgtrololol]

Now that I think about it, I pretty much got my first electronics job/internship because I brought some stuff I made and I said I watched EEVblog in my spare time. I have no qualifications due to medical issues at the time.

[@SomeMorganSomewhere]

Yeah, I was a member of the student branch of Engineers Australia when I was at Uni, never bothered to renew as a Grad/Professional after I finished my degree.

[@luisramos123]

In Portugal even with my masters degree in mechanical engineering (5 year college degree) I can't technically call myself an engineer unless I'm a member of the "order of engineers", which really just translates to paying a monthly fee and getting very little benefits (if any). You can work as an engineer though, and most "engineers" that I know of aren't members. Most people don't even know about that though, and just assume that someone with a master's degree in engineering can be called an engineer.

[@kwazar6725]

I advocate only curiousity. I was born curious and found answers and then applied them. Enough curiosity creates experience and forces you to find out the academics...so anyone can be an electronics person. Exactly what dave says.

[@ags-engineering5544]

Another great instructive video from Steve !

[@va3ngc]

Canada is very strict with who and who cannot call themselves engineers. Even if you have a degree in Engineering, you can only officially call yourself an "Engineer" if you are a member of the applicable provincial engineering body. To be a member, you need 4 year bachelors in Eng, 4 years post grad experience, and you have to write a law and ethics test, and of course pay the yearly fees.

[@pyrokinetikrlz]

In Colombia it is illegal to call yourself an engineer or do engineering activities without qualifications. I think it was a law motivated by engineers to prevent other people from taking their jobs

[@TheDIMONART]

I`m a self-taught welder, metal worker, i love cnc machines. I made few 3D printers, they are based on welded steel frame. I make my projects by myself, from pencil sketch and CAD to the final product. So, I`m an ENGINEER.

[@WHiPCPL]

I graduated as a power engineer today, engineering is truly the best thing you can do with your life :D

[@Mromfgtrololol]

I think in the Netherlands it's a thing where you legally can't call yourself an engineer, but you can have an engineering job. Most time your job title will be developer instead of engineer or something similar.

[@hrnekbezucha]

Very encouraging, thanks Dave. Now let's get on with the projects...

[@Zadster]

Get your amateur radio examination and callsign. Chances are at least one of the engineers looking through your application will also be a radio amateur, and it puts you in a sort of "members club". Some of the best interviews I have had were just me and another engineer chatting about our experiences. They tend to open up to you more too, and will be honest if the company is a pile of stinking crap.

[@rhyoliteaquacade]

100% true.

[@thekaiser4333]

In Germany it is even illegal to buy or own a soldering iron if you are not a fully certified electronics engineer. Health and safety reasons. Somehow one's got to keep the riffraff out. If you are Goodenough, you can go into battery research.

[@otakujhp]

A crappy associates degree from a small town community college somehow landed me a Principal Test Engineer title. I can't complain.

[@EEVblog]

Nice!

[@mathbc1984]

Eli Tech is a great KZbin channel to learn repairing motherboard and GPU. He show, also, his tools for the repair.

[@JerryDodge]

Here in the US, at least in Kentucky, I freely call myself a software engineer. The only school I've had was intro to programming, intro to IT, and numerous keyboarding classes. No college, just grade school. And nobody's questioned my education. But it took me about a decade of real applied experience before I called myself an "engineer". I grew up tinkering with electronics, mechanics, and ultimately programming.

[@SoCalFreelance]

I have never let my schooling interfere with my education ~ Mark Twain

[@lmiddleman]

Even in electronics you need an engineering degree and professional qualification if you are signing off on equipment with life-safety or medical aspects.

[@skyperis]

All the things I do now for a living are thanks to some forum posts I made years ago. It was on the topic of some mechanism's design and issues and such. One day a year or so after that I got a message on the same board from some local businessman, asking if I'd be interested in working on making something like that. Since then I've been designing mechanical components, mechanisms, schematics, pcb's. On the way I made friends with one guy, who has a machine shop and made some parts for us. I would help him out with electronics and such, while he has amazing knowledge about metalwork, tooling and manufacturing. One day it came up that the first project was going a bit slow at the time, so he mentioned that his workplace is looking for people. 3 months later I get placed as the technical engineer for a marine company, looking after the machinery and automation. I still work for both places.

[@PersonaRandomNumbers]

Is that light new? I spent half the video staring at that thing. That sound visualization is just mesmerizing! Excellent advice as well, of course.

[@IanScottJohnston]

Here in the UK back in 1984 I got a job out of school in an electronics workshop for an oil service company.....I assembled PCB's and put together panels......but I worked my way up over 20yrs to R&D Manager looking after the software engineers and development of all the companies electronic products.....everything from small standalone products to large integrated systems. What gave me the chance was the fact it was a Malaysian owned company and the culture when hiring was "No University folks here please, they can't even solder!........keen hobbyists welcome". Damn right I call myself an Engineer.

[@companymen42]

In the US, specifically California as a freshly graduated EE, I have had a hell of a time -finding a job- getting an interview with a company. It seems companies only care about GPA (I have a 3.00 for reference).

[@electrodacus]

I got my EE bachelor degree in Romania and that took 5 years (4.5 years with the other half time to prepare a project of your choosing then present that in front of a commission to validate your degree) For me that project was data acquisition equipment based on Z80 HW and SW and worked every day for many months in the university lab as I was passionate about that. The got a job with a multinational Siemens as R&D HW engineer and big part of me getting that job was likely that project done in the last half year at the university. I will say that I have probably learned more in that last half year than the other 4.5 year where it was mostly advanced math. Not many are passionate about the subject and around 90% of my university colleagues where the only for the piece of paper you get at the end. The best way to learn something is to start a project that you are passionate about and just do that while at the same time learning how to do it :). All jobs including engineering jobs will be done by AI in 10 years or less so only do what you enjoy doing not in preparation for a job.

[@EEVblog]

Indeed, do something you are passionate about. I also encounted so many people (majority?) at University that simply didn't case, they seemed to be doing engineering because their parents wanted them to, or their friends did it, or they thought it would lead to a job, or something else apart from actually being interested in it.

[@Miata822]

Great post! do what you love. AI can draw the schematics, make the plans, lay out the circuit board, etc. It will be a long time before AI can envision that thing we are lacking, whatever it is that doesn't exist but should, could.

[@robertw1871]

AI, no matter how good will never replace human ingenuity... it’s misguided to think that a machine can replace intangible thought, at least for the next 1000 years or so anyway. AI is mostly marketing wank being sold to investors, it’s not as advanced as they’d have you believe and is failing badly were it’s been implemented... wait and see how much money is lost on it in the few years...

[@electrodacus]

There is already plenty of usable AI even here on youtube as the recommended videos algorithm and add targeting. You may think humans are something more than just biological machines. Think just at the value of self driving cars so I do not think there is no good return on the investment in AI. Even AGI is less than 20 years from now so the 1000 years is way out :)

[@colinedwards7250]

One way not to get involved with company management is to do design work for free. Then take a licence fee for every one they make. I've been doing that for 45 years. Get a reputation and work will come to you. (Currently on the workbench a display panel controller for aircraft carriers.)

[@E.Blackadder]

In Australia, job advertisements for electronics engineers sometimes have in their candidate attributes: A relevant 'tertiary' qualification is desirable. This translates to: "We want an experienced degree qualified engineer BUT we can't afford one so we are willing to settle for someone that can do the job but pay them less, a crap-load less". I have turned up to those job interviews and walking away in disgust at the remuneration package offered for so called "Electronic Engineer" positions. Yes, you can get a job doing electronic engineering here in Australia, but I can tell you from experience, you generally do get paid more with a degree and companies will generally promote you over your less qualified associates.

[@kylesmithiii6150]

Exactly. I made a point about something similar here. My point was -- if you love electronics, and if you can and want to obtain a formal BSEE degree, just do it! It will only help you. You won't probably regret that! I got my BSEE over 25 years ago and it only helped me. I work in Telecom & IT sales. Electronics is mostly a hobby for me now, but my BSEE has opened many doors for me and I always got a decent salary & benefits. BTW, I really like Dave's videos and what he talks about, but my experience in corporate business (mainly big multinationals) having a BSEE has been very fruitful most of the time even though I do face segments of the movie "Office Space" almost every day but you learn how to see the cup half full and make the best of it. It is not that bad and boring.

[@crazyahhkmed]

The Sydney Accord also covers 4 years/bachelor's degrees, such as with ABET in the US, acredditing bachelor's degrees in engineering technology. In the US you typically need an bachelor's in engineering or related field(ex: engineering technology, applied physics, etc) for most positions with "engineer" in the title. A few of the more applied jobs, actually ask for the engineering technology degree specifically as the preferred degree. For technician positions, it's usually an associate's in engineering technology or related. For design positions it's often a master's degree in engineering or related field. It's usually either or though. Atleast that's what's I've noticed in my job hunt 😂. I'm in a BSEET program currently.

[@ats89117]

Australians are very enlightened. In the US, most companies won't talk to you if you don't have a master's degree...

[@ResurrectionofMC]

ats89117 in Germany for example they cant give you a Job as an engineer Without a degree because if something in the product Break which was developed from someone Without a degree and in worst case People die or something like that, they are responsible for the accident. That is why the title engineer is protected in Germany.

[@frigzy3748]

What part of US is that? In California it's exactly like Dave says. Tesla, Apple - nobody cares about your degree outside of HR and background check agencies. Folks are only interested in what you've done and extreme education (PhD, multiple MSEE-s) is often considered a red flag.

[@ats89117]

In the US, we have an actual PE (Professional Engineer) title that is separate from the degree. There are multiple parts to getting this certification and it is very important in Civil Engineering but much less important for electrical engineers (unless they work in power plant or on that type of equipment). There is a test that is a part of this process and they advise people to take the test at the end of university, because most people forget a lot of the stuff that is never used if they wait long after... I've done a lot of work with German companies and they have great engineers, but there have also been some pretty impressive engineers who never got a degree. Historically, Henry Ford and Thomas Edison were always good examples. More recently there have been people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Michael Dell. I understand that companies would want something in hand in case something went terribly wrong and killed somebody, but I still think an impressive list of accomplishments should outweigh a diploma from even the best of schools. Anyway, Dave isn't kidding about the Australians not giving a toss (love that expression!). When I first visited Sydney 20 years ago, My wife and I lugged formal wear half way around the world so that we could see an opera at the famous Sydney Opera House. We were the best dressed people there! The Australians were all wearing shorts and tee shirts and flip flops! :-D

[@ats89117]

I don't agree Dmitrii. First, most people don't get interviews or even a reply unless they cut muster with HR. HR doesn't want to cede power over the employment process, and they have no idea what a good engineer looks like, so they rely on checking boxes. And education is one of the higher up boxes (race and gender are the first boxes). I agree with Dave's suggestion to try to go around HR, but this isn't always possible. Second, we are specifically talking about electrical engineers here. Software engineers are much more likely to get a pass for a sketchy educational background than electrical engineers. As far as California goes, I haven't done business with Tesla or Apple, but the top preference for many companies in Northern California are people with H1B visas. These are primarily PhD students that companies like Tesla and Apple can sponsor and pay substandard wages to. You can look here for the numbers: www.myvisajobs.com/Electrical-Engineers-2018OC.htm Looks like Apple was the #1 sponsor of H1B visas for electrical engineers in 2018 and Tesla was #13. Unfortunately, statistics on how many non-degreed electrical engineers these companies have hired isn't as easy to come by. Let me know if you find some source.

[@locouk]

That lamp! It needs a tear down and circuit diagrams.

[@1pjodan]

I used to be a network engineer, the company that took us over calls us ibx technicians, I miss being an engineer.

[@abed-itani1983]

My most project is creating the sound amplifier starting from the zero by making the map by hand drawn and use the 2 type of acid to crate the PCB board and welding the electric part and done

[@Blitterbug]

Degrees indicate only that you have discipline. I had a new graduate come on my team, and to evaluate him prior to letting him loose on our code, I gave him a simple VB project. After three hours he came back to me and told me that using XOR to scramble and then unscramble a string, which I had requested, was 'impossible' and 'didn't make sense'. I kid you not.

[@youtubkeeper]

Also true of other (similar) industries in Australia. I am in IT and a degree will help you get your first job, but you can get your foot in the door in IT retail or tech support without a degree. Your 3-4 years at university or college (depending on the exact field) mean as much as 1-2 years' experience. After you have a bit of experience, getting another job and working your way up isn't difficult. A few certificates along the way can help you to the next step in your career however. I just wish I'd started working in the industry straight out of high school.

[@vargasantonio286]

Here in the Philippines where to become an Engineer is Difficult due to Tedious College, Required to take Licensure Exam, CPD and Fewer Job Opportunities

[@RdMrcr]

In Israel they won't touch anyone who hasn't graduated from a top university with a pole. The line of thinking is that potential is more important than experience for juniors, you don't expect people to provide value to your company from day one - you rather cultivate them and get great employees after a few years (Has nothing to do with regulation, except for power engineers no EE registers here)

[@sagittarium]

This video is really encouraging! Big thanks for useful information.

[@FurEngel]

Hi Dave, just a quick clarification on the Oregon resident. He won the legal argument that he could call himself an engineer but not professionally (meaning it is still a violation/crime if he solicits a job using said title). To work in most (if not all) states and call yourself an engineer, you must be 1) registered with the state and 2) hold a PE license (which requires a BS).

[@andydelle4509]

But only if you are practicing engineering for hire such as a consultant. And then it has to be a field of engineering that requires a PE. For example Broadcast Engineering is exempt as are many other areas of engineering. Private company employees are also exempt. Any engineering department has, well, engineers working in it. And few are PEs. Microsoft has been challenged in both Texas and Illinois over the MCSE and won. But in reality it comes down to nobody except congress wants to take on Microsoft legally. They can drain you dry in legal expenses.

[@FurEngel]

@@andydelle4509 Well I am specifically referring to the state laws of Oregon and how the case was challenged in both state and federal court. The courts ruled that his term of engineer was used in a general sense (hence the free speech exception) and did not constitute his qualification for a specific job that would have said requirement. It was ruled that if he posted his services for hire (or a resume), his use of Engineer would imply certification, licensing and PE, and would be considered fraud.

[@andydelle4509]

@@FurEngel But only if he used that resume to practice unsupervised engineering in a protected field. There are tens of thousands if not more of engineers employed in the US that are not PE's but have the official title of "Engineer" on their business cards and in their personnel files. And a certain percentage of them are not degreed either.

[@jonathanwilhelm8891]

Something to add, engineers have children who they want to engage their children in extracurricular activities. so for example you could be a mentor for first robotics or join Ham Radio communities. find meet ups for your discipline and talk to like minded individuals, you might just find yourself with a job

[@robertw1871]

In the US you can be a PE ( professional engineer ) by simply taking the PE exam I’m pretty sure you don’t need a degree. The test is extraordinarily difficult though, most degreed engineers fail the exam. This exam is usually only required for building architecture structural engineering though, and you can still be a structural engineer as long as someone in your office has a PE to sign off on your work, except for maybe medical devices it isn’t usually required for electronics...

[@ventusprime]

8:03 in hungary Elecetrican(dont need high school )-->Electrotechnicant (need high school "diploma" and and you have to stay in school 2 years *1)---> College electric enginer (BSC)---> MSC-->PHD

[@ventusprime]

*1 in my daiy if you want to be a elctric technicant you have to aply a special high school where you as next to normal high schoo clasess you must atted electric orianted classes (like learn how to use oscilloscope) and after 4 years you get high school "diploma" and you have to stay 2 more years to become technicant and the technicant exam are preformed font of the Enginering associanation memeber

[@MalagasOnFire]

screw titles , get experience thats what counts on the resume and on daily job, personal hobbies. Do you have self replaceable LED fittings?

[@brendanfarthing]

Totally agree. Same applies for IT.

[@consciousenergy5957]

This is such great advice and hopefully inspires someone to take action with there life.

[@brianaicheler7084]

In the UK the term "Chartered Engineer" generally relates to a person who has a suitable degree at Masters of Engineering level or equivalent and has registered with the engineering board. However you do not need a degree to register as a chartered engineer. You could for example submit a thesis for consideration to register. What this means in practice is although the title "chartered engineer" is protected under law, nobody is really interested and it is very much in line with Australia by the sound of it. There are jobs that require CEng and membership of a professional body but at the end of the day these are becoming less common. So yes you can get a job as an electronics engineer in UK without a degree or professional qualification. However you need to be careful as there are a few employers who ask for ridiculous qualifications well above the requirements for the job. I started out in the industry by completing a five year apprenticeship in the armed services. Later I completed a first degree and a masters and with experience registered as a Chartered Engineer. I call myself an electronics engineer and ocassionaly a professional chartered engineer if it warranted, for example in a law court as an expert witness. Frankly I agree with what Dave has said, if you want to practice electronics then go ahead. Get the qualifications by all means but dont let lack of them put you off. If you want to design circuits and systems then you are going to need mathematics and do some study etc. If you want to go into diagnostic and repair work then do not let a lack of deep math skills put you off, you will need some but not at a very high level.

[@railspony]

In Oregon you certainly can't use the E-word without a degree, but of course you're allowed to do the same work if you call it circuit design. And you can talk about it all you want, the court case referenced isn't being reported on very accurately; it was a case of the engineering board trying to mess with a guy who said stuff that made them mad, and the Court got it right in the end. That case though involved traffic signals, which are civic engineering not electronics.

[@stephenwabaxter]

I agree with everything that Dave says here. Its the same in the UK as Australia in that membership of the IET professional body here is not a requirement to be a professional Electronics Engineer. It was only at Motorola that I found several people were IET members and that made me to decide to join - one of the best decisions I made in my professional career - but that is another story. I joined the IEEE about five years ago and found that very interesting having come across some of its standards before but not knowing how it operated.

[@chesshooligan1282]

In the UK the bloke that fixes your boiler is an engineer.