EEVblog

Dave visits Transit Systems to take a look at a fully electric bus with a 328kWh battery back running on regular Sydney bus routes. How does it compare to an electric car?
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#Electric #Bus #Sydney

[@StreuB1]

This was FASCINATING!!!! BIG UP to Transit Systems for allowing Dave what appears to be a completely wide open tour!!! This was AWESOME!!!

[@rationalmartian]

Indeed. Just what I was thinking. Kudos to the Bus/Transit authorities for allowing such a great look into their stuff. Also the blokes involved. I was under the impression the Aussies were a bit paranoid, and sticklers for H&S and regulations. I couldn't imagine getting such a free reign and such cooperation here in the UK. Bloody marvellous. Very interesting.

[@andreyv116]

@Jack they *centralize* the pollution, providing more support for incremental replacement with a nuclear or renewable power grid

[@stugryffin3619]

Amen to that. Super super interesting.

[@purerhodium]

Looking forward to a teardown of all the power electronics in those buses, Dave!

[@greywolf271]

Start a crowdfunding so Davc can buy a bus and teardown

[@dalriada842]

I miss the days of "Don't turn it on, take it appaaarrrrt!"

[@rationalmartian]

We'll have to wait a while. Until one turns up in the dumpster cage in Dave's Lab/Workshop basement. Then we can see how it Chooches. OOPS, sorry. Wrong Vlogger. :-)

[@monad_tcp]

@@rationalmartian but needs to be fast before PhotonicInduction pops it.

[@OleF112]

Time to thank the guys for good explanation and the time they spent for Dave and us. Good job!

[@didgitalpunk]

"there's almost half a million electric busses in the world, but you don't hear about them" Yes dave, that's because of the electric bit. no vroom vroom, just silence!

[@f.d.6667]

I can confirm this for Germany, where field tests showed that electric buses are in fact super quiet - that's mainly because they are grounded in their depot most of the time as even with the biggest and latest battery technology, they run out of juice after 1/2 a day max., whereas the diesel-powered ones run around the clock...

[@max_kl]

@@f.d.6667 Did you even watch the video?

[@vgamesx1]

@@max_kl Maybe he meant on the routes they took which were a longer drive?

[@gblargg]

The electric buses in my city make a noticeable sound, definitely not quiet.

[@cybershadow81]

@@gblargg Electric busses in my city are equipped with electric vehicle warning sound systems (EVWSS). They produce artificial sounds to annoy pedestrians, pardon me, to WARN pedestrians, of course. Below 25 km/h they sound like a broken gearbox.

[@jurabondarchook2494]

In Netherlands we have a lot of electric buses. They have funky chargers. Contacts are on the roof of bus. Bus just drive in under special horizontal bar with contacts and charging.

[@mbvgkjhgvkugvouklgb]

Same in Brasov Romania, they are SOR NS 12's

[@666Tomato666]

sounds like a combination of electric bus and a trolleybus

[@cybershadow81]

@@666Tomato666 Those chargers are just stationary, they don't work while driving like on tolleybusses. There's a video from Leiden in the Netherlands where you can see them in action: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpqWl2Spaq-AkNE

[@aronhighgrove4100]

Makes sense, so that people wouldn't be able to access it, get hurt, or try and damage/vandalize it.

[@mustafayldrm3449]

@@cybershadow81 but does these buses have really an advantage over the trolleybuses? Especially in flat countries like the Netherlands and some parts of Germany? I mean laying out the cables for the trolleybuses wont be much of a deal there, and no battery =no charging/maintanence issues.

[@liryan]

I’m from China and those brands (BYD, Yutong) definitely dominates the Electric bus market. In my hometown majority of the buses are now fully electric, with some exceptions of extra long services (over 20kms one direction) still using natural gas. I would say it’s much better, a lot quieter streets. You never realise how much noise buses made until they were all gone. The range tend to be an issue in the winter where the batteries itself won’t able to hold much charge around 0 degrees C, but in the winter gas is also in shortage in China as it’s used for heating as well. Pollution wise, the power composition in China is somewhat similar to Australia- heavy on coal and fast growing renewables. But people do benefit from a cleaner city air, and grid is getting cleaner. Overall I don’t see the reason why not using electric buses, especially if people driving it feels it’s not a white elephant and genuinely like them.

[@aronhighgrove4100]

White elephant?

[@GroxMirk]

@@aronhighgrove4100 I think - just a regular bus from passenger perspective

[@jackshen1028]

extra long service bus，now begining using HFCEV in some China city.

[@dalriada842]

@@aronhighgrove4100 White elephant is a colloquial term that means expensive and impractical.

[@liryan]

@@dalriada842 😊

[@stephengloor8451]

Electric buses seem like a total no brainer now. No range anxiety and no diesel particulates spewing out when stationary in traffic.

[@Andrzej.]

Hi. We have been using ZEV buses for years in Warsaw (Poland), we currently have 92 such vehicles, most of them were produced by Solaris (Polish bus factory). Another 70 electric buses were ordered and are being produced. Additionally, almost 800 other buses meet the EURO VI standard. If you count the buses, trams and trains used in Warsaw public transportation, 43% of them are electric vehicles. Most of these vehicles were produced in factories in Poland.

[@ClassicGOD]

For as long as I can remember there were trolleybuses in my city. There is even a joke about my city going around - something like: "If you don't know what city you are in and you look up and there are the traction wires but you look down and there are no train tracks you know you are in Tychy." but they are switching now to battery powered electric buses with automated chargers on key stops (where the bus waits for the next curse etc). It's kind of sad to see them get replaced but technology must move forward.

[@Boffin55]

We still have electric trolley buses here in Vancouver Canada

[@bgfelagund]

In Sofia we still have trolley buses but they have been partially swapped in the last 10 years with newer models with ICE (diesel probably when I look at the smoke ) redundancy instead. I think they were manufactured in the Czech Republic. And of course we still got the old trams. But I really enjoy the electric buses we started getting (maybe Yutong as far as I remember). At first I didn't know they were electric and thought that they were CNG buses and that the air con worked and they were silent just because they were brand new instead of 20-40 years old.

[@joselaw6669]

That's the worst joke I've heard in my entire life.

[@jur4x]

In Riga trolleybuses still fill fine. We did replace really old ones with modern ones in early 2000's, and we are now replacing some of those with brand new ones again. Though, this time there is no big change. Last time we went from really old noisy high floor Škoda 14Tr and 15Tr to modern nearly silent low floor Solaris Trollino and Škoda 24Tr. Newest addition to the fleet is pretty much the same Solaris Trollino, but with slightly refreshed front end. Most passengers won't even notice the difference. There been some tests of battery powered Solaris Urbino buses, but as far as I know, it never went anywhere.

[@pauldickhoff3594]

Eindhoven (The Netherlands) has a fleet of 43 locally produced, articulated VDL busses running since 2016 without great problems.

[@DrFod]

I've got a great idea. Instead of lugging a massive battery pack around, why not suspend wires above the street with a contact pole or pantograph to pick up the current? Lighter weight, more efficient, less environmental impact and can run all day without having to recharge. Surprised no one has thought of this before. Oh wait, they were doing this over a hundred years ago.

[@NotAnonymousNo80014]

Turns out, maintaining a trolley network is more expensive then buying battery buses. The more a city grows , the bigger the advantage I assume.

[@bitelaserkhalif]

North Korea begs to differ, they have those. The problem is the trolleybuses cannot maneuver as freely as standard bus.

[@oplkfdhgk]

The charging time isn't really a problem because usually people don't use busses at night that much anyway and even ice busses are parked sometimes :p

[@simon7719]

Requires a lot of specialized infrastructure and it's less flexible wrt to routing so I imagine electric busses is a far easier sell.

[@D4no00]

the only problem with this is that this is practical only in cities. We have trolleybuses that leave the city and those have batteries equipped, since it is cheaper to equip a few with batteries than to extend the line.

[@oplkfdhgk]

2:56 we have couple yotong busses in finland. i think they are great. i can finally hear my music :D i wish we had more of them because they are awesome :D

[@rudge3speed]

Electric buses were very popular in the 1930s to '50s as cities began to switch their trolley/tram systems to buses. This made sense because the overhead wires and other infrastructure were already in place. Even though they have disadvantages (stuck to routes, can't leapfrog), they are quiet and clean. I think that battery buses are cool, but hauling all those batteries around is expensive and heavy. There are electric buses that use overhead wires on parts of the route, but can run on batteries as well for short distances, recharging while under wires. This makes a lot of sense to me.

[@marcop8273]

It is very strange to see 10.000rpm scale on heavy vehicle: combustion counterparts, usually have 2500-3000rpm full scale.

[@KarrasBastomi]

Its a F1 V12 powered bus....

[@KrotowX]

@@KarrasBastomi Minus F1 sound. I hope annoying warning sound freaks will not figure out that cities must sound like F1 races.

[@alouisschafer7212]

2500 is already redline for most big diesels. you usually run the between 1000rpm and 2000rpm

[@solveit1304]

I'm from Rzeszow, Poland and we got Electric Buses too :)

[@danfishlock8306]

It's amazing how so much particulate pollution in cities now is actually from tyre rubber! Solving that problem, and decreasing road noise, while still maintaining good traction is a challenging materials science problem.

[@seneca983]

One simple option is to use steel wheels on steel rails.

[@mrxmry3264]

rubber particles are not the only problem, theres also particles from the brake pads. although regenerative braking helps with that.

[@OtherDalfite]

Dave, as a bus engineer, thanks for posting! This was really interesting to me

[@kamila3366]

Thank you Dave, thank you all guys from Transit Systems for showing this and all information. Great documentary!

[@TheMobilefidelity]

Look how tiny those motors are! I've seen the underpinnings of trolleybuses before, quite modern ones to be fair, and they had one beefy longitudinally mounted motor with a differential. The guys at BYD really went to town on this one!

[@danizoom84]

Hi Dave, i'm waiting for you to find an electric bus in your dumpster! 😁

[@stevenruhl8456]

It's important to remember that going electric does not eliminate pollution. It just moves it from tailpipe to power plant.

[@danspratt2]

The refinement of crude oil into fuel uses a huge amount of power. Using the power directly to run the bus is much better than refining oil only to burn it as well.

[@robber576]

So what do you think powerplants run on with a efficiency below 40% ?

[@6581punk]

Not to mention that scrapping millions of perfectly functional cars to produce new ones is very energy intensive. The mining for metals and battery compounds. The fundemental flaw with electric cars is the are nowhere near as efficient as petrol and diesel. Neither is hydrogen fuel cell technology. A fuel tank gradually gets empty and the car becomes lighter as a result. An empty electric battery is the same weight full or empty. Hydrogen is a much more dangerous fuel, remember when those airships used it, that didn't end well did it? as a result, any benefit hydrogen offers is wiped out by needing to have a fuel tank that is 5 times thicker (and therefore heavier) than a petrol one. Petrol and diesel cars would never have been successful if they weren't good at what they did. The fact that electric has to be subsidised and we have to be forced to use it by banning combustion engines just shows it is nowhere near as good. Refueling a car takes a couple of minuites, electric much slower. I'm not totally against electric cars. I think they should be the only cars allowed in big cities. But for people doing motorway trips, non-urban driving they aren't good enough yet.

[@EEVblog]

It eliminates the local air pollution that you breath in, that's the point. That kills 3000 people a year in Australia. And the energy comes from whatever source you chose. There are options.

[@6581punk]

@@danspratt2 And electricity production and distribution is so perfect? there's huge loses as it travels down the wires and goes through all the transformers, sub-stations etc... If electric was a good proposition we wouldn't need to be forced into using it by banning petrol cars.

[@lightningdemolition1964]

there are even buses that are a hybrid between battery only and pantograph trollies. they use " opportunity charging" which is a high capacity short duration charger which charges the bus for a few minutes using overhead chargers at each stop and during wait times and driver breaks. it allows the bus to go all day long with a much smaller and cheaper battery pack and eliminate the need for continuous trolley lines. if they need to extend the network they might only need to put a charger at rhe furthest stop. this method also works for electruc forklifts.

[@simuler]

We have electric busses here in Bulgaria from the end of last year. The main difference is the charging is done true contacts on the top of the bus, so it can be charged more easy on rout.

[@EEVblog]

Why would you need to charge it on-route?

[@simuler]

@@EEVblog lower battery capacity, they don't hold as much charge as the ones you show here.

[@simuler]

@@EEVblog Reading true there specs it looks like they dont run on batteries, they run on 780F /20kWh super capacitors

[@simon7719]

Less batteries mean lighter vehicles and that the batteries we can produce can result in more battery powered busses. Question becomes if it is worth it in terms of the only real incentive system we have, ie money.

[@ganz3995]

@@EEVblog He's probably referring to the Higer supercapacitor buses. They have a range of 20 km and charge at end stops in 5-10 minutes. Apart from these we also have 20 standard battery electric buses by Yutong with 320 kWh batteries and overnight charging in the depot. Unfortunately their batteries don't usually last a full day so buses are swapped around midday.

[@mohitshukla4609]

Great piece of journalism. That's awesome!

[@edc1569]

There's a few of wireless tram systems in Europe, where the tram charges briefly at the stops or key sections of track, they seem to work well so I wouldn't write off the wireless idea, with automation it would be pretty simple and you could avoid lugging/and the cost of 100's kWh of batteries. Not in the same category as solar roadways!

[@mubd1234]

Newcastle (about two hours north of where Dave is in Sydney) has that kind of system. It kind of sucks, the tram has to stop for a relatively long time at each stop to get the batteries charged up sufficiently.

[@IIVQ]

I work with electric buses (I make the schedules for the buses and the drivers in the area north of Amsterdam, the Netherlands). A few remarks on other commenters and the video: - Electric vehicles running on oil-fired power plants emit about 50% carbon compared to a diesel truck or car, well-to-wheel. The amount of particulate matter is dependent on what filtering the power plant operator installed. - There seems to be a lot of dust buildup in that rear compartiment. Interestingly, our BYD buses had a problem where they would have large amounts of black dust everywhere, including the passenger compartiment. Testing found it was improper sealing, it being mostly carbon which is probably road dust from tires (either the buses own or from other vehicles). - The amount/speed of recharging is an operational problem. For example, the area I work with needs 109 (83 of them electric) buses in peak hours, but only 70 during mid-day. So part of buses come in after morning peak to charge, then others come in etcetera. The evening peak is most problematic as we need less buses for drinving than morning peak but it's "wider" (from 2:30 pm when schools go out till 19:00 when the peak buses return from their endpoints), so some buses are charging in the evening peak. In some areas where the usage pattern is more "flat" you need extra buses to charge and thus faster charging and/or changing batteries would be beneficial, but in areas with high peaks we have no more buses than we would have if we rode diesel buses. The buses I work with charge 3-4 times a day on average, but the buses we have in another area charge about 10 times a day (we have a lot of 24h lines, buses there running 17h/day on average) and they fast charge with 240kW - In Arnhem, which is a trolley city, they are experimenting with "trolley 2.0" which is trolley buses with a battery pack which will charge on a central section yet can drive a few kilometres out in suburbs, removing the costs of installing trolley wire in every outlying suburb. - Heating is often still done with diesel, as electric heating takes a huge hit on the batteries while only being needed for a few months a year. Electric heating takes up relatively minor amounts of diesel. Some buses have heat pumps (aircons that can heat and cool) and (in Dutch weather) the aircon in summer takes more power than heating in winter. - For us, the total cost of ownership is about similar to diesel buses. The buses are a lot more expensive (think double/tripe), chargers are very expensive as well (a quarter of the price of the bus) but the maintnance costs are a lot lower and the electricity is extremely cheap compared to fuel. - One major difficulty is getting a power line to the charging locations, often needing two years to have it built, which is problematic as the time from giving a concession to running it is usually about 1.5 years. On our current location we could pull 2900 kW if all buses would be charging at the same time + about 300kW for the facility (heating, compressor, office light etc), but the power usage is measured at 5 (random) moments per day, and if one of those measurements show we go over 2000kW grid pull, we'll be required to pay for a larger grid connection for 2 years (which is multiple thousands of euros extra per month). We were promised a larger connection but the cable has to be routed under a rail line, the rail operator has protested due to their electromagnetic field sensitive signalling equipement and it also has to go trough a canal dike, not your default "just dig a trench and lay a cable".

[@JuanJDumeP]

LifePo4 is the wave man. Got it on my eBike pulling 300 amps @86v and they don't even break a sweat. Also and most importantly it's is safe to pull that level of energy from it and even if it wasn't the cells are super safe no fire no explosion.

[@luongmaihunggia]

This ^

[@Tgbec]

Quite a few of the diesel powered buses I’ve driven don’t have a rev counter, Volvos normally have it for best revs for the turbo, Optare turned theirs into an eco meter and ADL started adding one in 2009.

[@alakani]

"Zero emissions" is quantum chromodynamic false advertising :p

[@alouisschafer7212]

indeed "Reduced Emissions" is already brave.

[@the_eminent_Joshua_E_Hrouda]

I've been putting off watching this video for weeks. Thinking "how interesting could electric busses be?" Well, it was QI. Thanks Dave!

[@gregorymccoy6797]

I thought this was going to be rather dull. It was really very interesting. These guys really know their gear, too

[@SupremeRuleroftheWorld]

i have a strong deja vu right now.

[@regmigrant]

I've had that before

[@efa666]

I'm sure I've read this comment before.

[@OfflineSetup]

I'm sure I've read this comment before.

[@illustriouschin]

meow....

[@ChrisPavey85]

There is a glitch in the matrix

[@stephenharrison7479]

Fantastic! Great overview (and underview!!) thanks for sharing. I hope you gave them the Solar Roadways number so they can fill the yard with panels.... :-) :-)

[@jkobain]

Dave reminds me of ex-smokers' impressions. ;D

[@Eo_Tunun]

I am a bit surprised they didn't go for the option of having exchangable battery packs on the busses. An hour of charging still is much longer than unplugging, having some mechanical magic happening and a new driver hopping in on shift change would have taken. With a whole fleet of identical vehicles, I imagine this would be a significant factor in cost effectivity over time. The battery packs could sit in some corner of the workshop while recharging. With electric vehicles, one can rightfully speak of "The latest technology". It basically was service ready over thirty years ago, could have been used for niche applictaions ever since. I thus think it's thirty years late. None has ever been this late.

[@HenryLoenwind]

I love that "In case of fire: Execute emergency procedures" sticker in the driver's cab. ;)

[@MetrologyEngineer]

Run like your about to shit yourself before the Lithium gives up the ghost!

[@userPrehistoricman]

In case of obstacle: execute evasive manoeuvres

[@TP-nh2oi]

In Finland we also have quite many electric buses, it's a trend now for city traffic. They are much nicer indeed, compared to the old noisy diesel buses that try to suffocate everyone standing at a bus stop.

[@XSpImmaLion]

I really want an electric car. Even a goddamn hybrid. But currently, it's unfortunately almost impossible here in Brazil. Impossibly expensive, very hard to maintain. As I haven't been using my old junker '98 Ford Fiesta less and less over the years, I just commited to, if I ever buy another car, it's gonna be electric. But it's probably not happening for quite a while, if ever. We do have an all electric bus program in my city though. Tiny part of the fleet, but at least they are testing. Of course, if we had a good public transit system with metros and whatnot, I wouldn't even consider a car anymore... but you know, we don't. If I even realize my dream of moving to Japan, I guess that's gonna be solved... xD

[@KrotowX]

Brasil? Hahaha, electric cars are too expensive even for European middle class. Not all EU countries have EV subsidies, not talking about poor chaps at South and East of EU.

[@freeculture]

Electric is much simpler, which means its also easier to maintain, and has much fewer parts. A market like Brazil can probably get the ultra cheap golf kart like electrics that are ravaging the Chinese market, they drive slow and have short range, but for city use are perfectly fine and cost about 1000 USD (in alibaba). Sadly most use (about 8) regular car batteries, would be great to see those with the nicer Li-ion ones. EEVblog should review one of these. Check youtuber jalopnik reviewing one in the US.

[@McTroyd]

This is awesome. Thanks for the look. I've seen lots of diesel buses, but never an electric one with this level of detail. I'll be zipping over to the EEVdiscover channel to catch the whole thing!

[@typxxilps]

really great expedition never had thought that it could be so great collection of interviews and first hand insights

[@scottiebones]

I myself have worked in the transport industry as a fleet mechanic and Even though electric buses do indeed have a future on our roads, there's still the sorting out the logistics of having a huge amount of space dedicated for charging bays, the power demand needed to charge them (which is huge) and minimising time required off road for assets to charge in time before demand on mass are issues that will have to be solved, entire depots will have to be built around the planning of this!

[@maheshpadmanabh6564]

It’s zero tailpipe emission vehicle and not zero emission. And lithium is one of the most abundant elements in the earth’s crust. Why are people so anti EV in the comments section?🤷🏻

[@max_kl]

There's always a minority that screams louder than the rest

[@HenryLoenwind]

The paid FUDsters have been very successful over the years and have convinced many stupid people.

[@tin2001]

Infrastructure is not up to mass use of EVs. Consider a motel with people who want to charge 50% of their battery overnight before leaving in the morning... Multiplied by 20-30. Also consider long distance travel. A 12 hour trip will become a 2 day trip with current battery capacity and charging times. For people who want to drive 5-10km to the office or shops every day, they're fine because not only are you hardly using the battery, but you're not going to have a problem if it goes flat. I'm not against them, but they're not going to be a practical solution for everyone.

[@HenryLoenwind]

@@tin2001 You're stuck in 2001. Or a FUDster paid by big oil.

[@falcovg2]

@@HenryLoenwind Oh, get your head out of your ass. He never said anything about having to keep on using oil, he just named practical problems that EV's have. We need to keep pushing for other solutions to overcome those problems, like hydrogen or synthetic fuels. Because a 400km range is plenty for a citybus, but a long range trucker does double the distance during his shift. And you can't just keep on stacking batteries, you're already at 2,5t of batteries for an 8,5t bus for a ~400km range, assuming everything else is equal, that would mean for an ~800km range on a 17t truck you need 10t of batteries, leaving 7t for chassis, engines, driver and maybe a bit of cargo, not really environmental friendly if you're just wasting energy on moving batteries around.

[@Lagggerengineering]

"Good morning and welcome to the Aussie Mesa Transit System!"

[@Teddy-vs5rw]

Electric cars are cool, but buses that operate almost 24/7, mostly in cities at low speed are the best application of electric, instant torque electric tech right now. This must save soooo much diesel, compared to a normal bus.

[@purerhodium]

chogori Not to mention MUCH quieter, and no tailpipe emissions at all.

[@Teddy-vs5rw]

@@purerhodium Exactly. Especially in traffic jams, this must be great. Some city buses, where I live go through a nature park, right around fish ponds, trees and wildlife. They have been replaced by electric buses and it's so much nicer not to hear the roar of the engine when it goes past.

[@simon7719]

The best place to put the batteries we have is in the vehicles seeing the most use. Busses, couriers, deliveries, patrol cars, maybe travelling sales people, etc. But I don't think those market forces are strong enough to compete with people willing to pay a premium for the luxury and/or identity aspects of nice electric cars for personal transport.

[@mubd1234]

EVs are ideal for cities - they either MOVE the pollution out to wherever the filthy coal smoke is exhausted (which is obviously going to be further away from any significant populations, out in the sticks somewhere), or eliminate it entirely if charged using green sources of electricity. Australia is fortunate in that all of its major cities aren't all that susceptible to smog, which is probably why the government hasn't taken much action on vehicle pollution standards. Our standards are positively piss poor compared to American and European standards. Petrol cars are still great for the open road.

[@FabianoCores]

here in Curitiba, Brazil, public transportation is done with full electric and hybrid buses... electric and biodiesel.

[@aronhighgrove4100]

Tell that to the other guy higher up in the comments that complained in Brazil busses would only use petrolium.

[@FabianoCores]

@@aronhighgrove4100 brazil is huge... I'm talking about one city.

[@ANTALIFE]

Like this format! It's super interesting to see what other people/industries get up to

[@meowcula]

Thanks for that Dave, that was cool. We're rolling them out here too in Toronto with 60 of them from three manufacturers. I had to do a double take once when a bus rolled up and I couldn't hear it!

[@keyserxx]

Yeah you need an insane air con for Australia. UK bus is hell in a heatwave due to weak air con. Looking forward to having these in the UK some time within the next 100 years..

[@kevinbreslin5718]

I have 2 evs. Got the second after smelling the exhaust of the ice car. Still need more range for trips but renting has worked for long trips

[@gmfinc18]

Just imagine in 50 years time this will be a historical video of the "first electric busses in aussieland" ike how you get the 1960-70's rail videos as they rolled out electric trains.

[@cowshittt]

Electric buses in South Korea have been a thing for some time now. No noise, no stinky exhaust, more internal space ... pure goodness

[@pitzyper]

We got electric buses here in Chile. They are replacing retiring diesel buses. They are so futuristic and silent.

[@moestrei]

Vamos Chile!!! Mucha energia solar / vento tambien...en buen camino, Siiii!

[@ulitoschan]

As an engineer, working with e-buses in Russia, i was pretty impressed by this video. Very interesting to see how all of this made on the other side of ocean. Thank you Dave!

[@crusaderanimation6967]

Quite funny for me is seeing Russians in comments. I hope will not have to shoot to something designed by u. Greetings from Poland and sorry for my not polished enough jokes. I guess i have pole instead of brain.

[@ulitoschan]

@@crusaderanimation6967 It's all right dude, i have lived a couple of years in Poland. Pshe-pshe.

[@crusaderanimation6967]

@@ulitoschan Actually what is Pshe-pshe ?

[@ulitoschan]

@@crusaderanimation6967 Nothing man. Just forget about that.

[@crusaderanimation6967]

@@ulitoschan Understandable have a nice day comrade.

[@brian4561]

Pretty sure in Canada our electric cars make a noise .. for safety i had a ford rental that sounded like a space ship , it wasn't loud but definitely audible.

[@EEVblog]

Mine is supposed to have that, but it's barely audible.

[@brian4561]

@@EEVblog yeah same with the Ford , wasn't noticeable inside the car. Nice car, I'm a Hyundai guy all the way now... mind you mine is a 429hp beast that still runs on mini explosion under the hood 😆

[@fkiesel9442]

Here in germany (probably the whole EU) new EVs are required to make a sound up to a certain speed, where the tire nois is louder anyway.

[@rud]

Excellent to see the bus is such detail. Wouldn't mind more of that type if it possible again one day. :)

[@henrywilloughby6965]

Wow, well done video Dave. Thanks for sharing this with the world!

[@The_Watcher2k3]

No emissions? But only if the electricity comes from 100% renewable energy sources. Otherwise the emissions are only shifted from the city to the power plants. There will still be dust from the brakes, tires and road surface.

[@edc1569]

Tell you what, once we've got the carbon crap from diesel buses out of our cities, we've removed all the petrol cars, all the gas boilers, then lets start worrying about brake dust emissions.

[@dang3859]

Actually in 2014 67% of the electricity was produced with fossile fuel and it was 63% in 1996 so not sure we are going the wright way.ourworldindata.org/energy. I think i saw 81% in 2018 in australia.

[@HenryLoenwind]

@@dang3859 Even if the energy for those busses was 100% produced by Diesel power plants with the same low yield as Diesel motors ... you'd still save 75+% fuel. That bus has a battery that stores as much energy as 33 Liters of Diesel. Dave's car has a battery that matches 5 Liters of Diesel.

[@The_Watcher2k3]

@@edc1569 I largely agree with you. That was just a hint to a few other sources of fine dust that are also there now and that won't go away with electric cars.

[@jenzbrettschneider8838]

The oldest Car that Driving in Berlin Germany is for 1899 or 1893 and the is Electric from the beginning. My First evere seen Electric Bus is from Polish Company Solaris.

[@crusaderanimation6967]

Ach As a Pole i'm proud that we produce that, What i'm not proud is i still have to wait 20min minimum(sometimes 30, or even hour !) for a some conventional German (mostly Mercedes)diesel bus to my small village(and i'm not in the worst position). But hey electric buses and all buses are nice at some application (city) but not so good at other (small villages in the middle of nothing )

[@jenzbrettschneider8838]

@@crusaderanimation6967 thats True. In my Hometown Wolfburg Germany most new Busses are Hybrid (Electric diesel) Problem in the Wintertime is heating the Inside. Interesting is using CNC or LNG for Busses. In the Noth of Germany 20% of netural Gas is BIO Gas.

[@crusaderanimation6967]

@@jenzbrettschneider8838 Nice. I remember when i was at vacation at my brother in Berlin (he emigrated to Berlin and is chef in hospital) we used public transport only to .. transport and ooooh boy bus every 10 min is pleasure. Visit in Germany was pleasant, i hope Germany will not visit me like that happen sometimes in history... buuuut those Berlin's waiting time for bus would be nice but i guess that not possible because that wouldn't be profitable and i have to wait for my own car. I like living in small Polish village but that have some cons. PS. Sorry for this history joke in the middle, I do not hold a grudge for history, but i like history and history memes/jokes.

[@jenzbrettschneider8838]

@@crusaderanimation6967 it will be better when the Germans visiting Person by person, Not in the same Color together ? Some of the Histroric Jokes... I like the to. It is mostly nice drive by public Transportation System in Berlin asacaly die S-Bahn or U-Bahn. Driving by Cat is mostly teribel ... My Grandgrandpa had a Polish Second Name, he was Living in Posnan. My Grandpa Leaving that Region to Work in colemine near Bottrop. Later he was Working in a saltmine. I will Invite you for some Beer in Berlin 😅 than we can have a Look about Historic Mens and Jokes...

[@crusaderanimation6967]

@@jenzbrettschneider8838 Thanks. That's nice when your invited instead of being invaded.

[@mooseteets]

since the batteries are on the roof, it would be nice if they could just drop a new battery pack ontop and swap them out quickly for another shift, im sure that could be done if they had more leccy buses and routes.

[@tin2001]

Most bus traffic is during peak times in the morning and afternoon, so it really wouldn't be necessary - just schedule charging to fit demand. The biggest issue is going to be getting hundreds of kw of power into them all, which is still an issue if you swap battery packs.

[@TheSergeiFranco]

These buses could be retrofitted with pantograph (like trams have) for charge top up at the bus stops.

[@axk1]

We have some electric buses with supercap quick recharge batteries with quick 5min charging on the ending stations, but they say it's something around $400K a bus compared to $50K for a conventional bus (local production), so you have to be rich to make all your buses electric at this point. Trolleys looks like a much cheaper alternative.

[@paulpaulzadeh6172]

In Sweden, where I live , we have electric busses for 8 years now , we have electric carpool which you can rent . Car key is inside car, doors would be open by mobile application which you have it on your mobile , Sweden is far away from Australia even Norway is far far away when it comes to electric car, We have even small ship that cross the river is completely electrical, charging runs for whole day,

[@bee2hive]

Low temperature doesn't seem to be a problem, either?

[@Razor2048]

Even if they could somewhat manage the weight, from having the batteries on the roof, won't it impact the cornering of the bus? It seems like it would be horrible with fast cornering or other more fun things.

[@zenith828]

27:51 Charging at a measly 45kW, NBD.

[@nameless5413]

issues with electric buses were being solved for a while, one of such solutions were trolleybuses. Problems were the size of battery / energy consumption on the engine (and in winter heating)

[@LeoH3L1]

What's the chances of finding one of those in the dumpster for a tear down Dave lol

[@toshihitsu1989]

My local transit authority uses about 5 electric busses and is a small transit system we have about 30 different lines most only ues one bus for each line

[@elliottslab]

I am amazed all the weight on the roof

[@Syrnian]

Wireless charging is just ineffective inefficient expensive infrastructure.

[@fredygump5578]

But if there was a....Freakin' Wireless Charging Solar Roadway.....it would be amazing! (LOL)

[@Syrnian]

@@fredygump5578 XD

[@wclifton968gameplaystutorials]

This is why Trolleybuses and trams are better

[@km5405]

unless its absolutely necessary and saves on the engineering problems of using a simple contact, id rather prefer just making contact so you can dump alot of power very efficiently. ... power is cheap though, it might be worthwhile to use wireless charging points where they park for city busses if it massively saves on maintenance and design.

[@EEVblog]

It has niche uses, but otherwise, yeah.

[@hardergamer]

Thanks, Dave. This was very interesting! We have many E-busses in Scotland, hoping the rest of the UK takes note soon, and why not...

[@posthofleiten]

Interesting video - as always. But when you talk about zero emission, you should also talk about manufacturing, nuclear power plants, coal-fired power plants and the extraction of the battery raw materials.

[@JasonHalversonjaydog]

a lot of electrics have to have artificial noise generators now cause they're so silent, pedestrians can't hear them coming, especially if they are blind. yeah all the busses in my city have been electric too for the last few years as they've replaced old ones

[@MatthewSuffidy]

Usually vehicles have differentials to resolve how one tire is rotating at a slower speed than the other when turning. I am pretty sure they do this in software and directly reduce the rate of the inner wheel.

[@putteification]

Or the motor controllers get a torque, rather than speed request from the "gas pedal"

[@savagemadman2054]

As a percentage, my regional transit company has actually reduced it's electric fleet over the decades - it used to be exclusively serviced by electric trams and trolley busses powered by overhead lines (1890-1950s). They've trialed hydrogen fuel cell and chargeable electric, but at this point it looks like they're going to be switching over the diesels to liquid natural gas for economic and political reasons.

[@horacewonghy]

My regional has test byd made taxi and Chinese made full electric buses,the taxi owner has retired those taxi because it won’t operate 24/7 and the bus company only buy few e bus because its was not practical when there has traffic jam and air con use the battery too.

[@Arrviasto]

There are electric buses in Warsaw for a couple of years now. They are quieter than diesel, but they are not silent. The motor/switching whine is very noticeable. Recently I've seen one that was quite loud actually. It might be annoying in the future while they become more common.

[@USUG0]

great video, with a lot of useful information. Thanks!

[@BerndFelsche]

Trolleybus makes more sense than lugging aound 2 tons of batteries. 2 tons is equivalent to carrying at least 20 more passengers.

[@lightningdemolition1964]

usually the constraint on passenger capacity is not by weight but by volume. you can have a transit bus packed full of standees and still not be overweight. two tons is close to what an engine, fuel tank, and transmission weighs.

[@worldemar42]

Electric buses are actually a big deal in Moscow, there are quite a lot of them replacing combustion ones. They are even advertised with "This is Electrobus" on their sides for general public to know.

[@legolegs87]

Actually Moscow mostly replaces trolleybuses with both electric and diesel buses. Those electobuses are not cheap so there are not enough of them to replace trolleybuses which were completely scraped recently.

[@ganz3995]

Nope, there are quite a lot of them replacing just a few of the trolleybuses and the remaining trolleybuses were replaced by diesel buses. That's not progress, that's regress.

[@KenPaisley]

But Dave they still run on whatever fuel was used to generate the electricity to charge the battery.

[@freibuis]

I would love to see that thing with a pantograph ... basically would become a trolley bus and you could drop the battery size down maybe put the overhead power at the bus stops.. . I would like to see a bus like that work on the tram line.. but at the end of the tram line it could use the road way like the good old trolley buses of yester year...

[@horacewonghy]

Super cap bus

[@christianelzey9703]

@@horacewonghy Gyrobus!

[@not_anton]

We have exactly that thing here in Finland

[@askjacob]

smaller battery = more cycles for same trip duration = more wear. They try and choose an ideal battery size to maximize pack life

[@freibuis]

@@askjacob Thought about this for a while.. I do not think this is true if it has a pantograph, this is because the battery doesn't get cycled down as much. in fact the battery should last longer as its state of charge stays up. Trolley trams that operated in the past didn't even have batteries. the battery in my model woul allow for less infastructure to be deployed and allow busses to use existing tram networks to extend routes or cover black spots

[@brucehaddow2666]

Awesome, Dave. Great video, and thank you Sydney transit.

[@Neojhun]

Wait this has dual independent motors on the rear. There is a possibility for Torque Vectoring and Rear Steering. Would make steering much nicer.

[@wardfiction5693]

These BYD buses are all over London and been there for a while now, they use DC fast charging and also AC charging at 3 phase. They used to break down all the time due to the electronics and I don't remember them running out of range. They are very fast, Smooth and the power charging infrastructure at the garage is insane... I believe other companies are making electric buses, like Alexander Dennis wich seems more reliable. BYD us a Chinese company, with slightly less quality. But they get the job done. They have Electric double decker's made by the same companies.

[@jam99]

The Australian becomes environmentally aware. Welcome to the holistic design approach, Dave.

[@maxinlux6570]

Electric busses in commercial service are a thing in Luxembourg, even articulated ones! Not all of them, mind you, but still... Some had a pantograph to recharge at the terminuses (terminii?), but that experiment seems to have been called off or failed... Five or six years ago we had a couple of hydrogen fuel cell experimental busses in commercial service on the network too, puffing out clouds of steam...

[@fromgermany271]

Dave, the least argument for electric cars is that owners a forced to only start them for driving. I press the start button of my old school Diesel only AFTER I sit in completely. Even in summer I don’t use AC BEFORE driving and in winter while ice scratching (you know that thing in the black mountains) I do not „preheat“ the engine. BTW, they ZF-axles. 👍🏻🙏🏻

[@AngDavies]

An electric bus that gets power delivered to it from the road...also known as a tram :p Also imagine the tinfoil hat wearers. Up in arms over a fraction of a watt, and now you have coils everywhere radiating kilowatts XD. Joking aside, the tram thing could actually work- for longer routes the bus drops a shoe/some guidance rods, raises a pantograph and runs inside the metro tracks, with the benefit it can charge while still in service, eliminating downtime Guided buses are a thing even for internal combustion engines, could see it making vast amounts of sense with an electric.

[@petergoose8164]

Excellent. Definitely worth the time to watch.

[@jimreynolds2399]

This was interesting to hear some of the facts about the buses from the people using them in anger.

[@PetRatty]

there will be a trial of a electric ambulance next month in the west midands. and have you heard about the jet pack suit for paramedics

[@sfesfawfgasfhga]

Why is it that the guts at the back are covered in a layer of dark muck? It doesn't look like brownish mud. Is it from forest fires, or maybe tyre & brake dust from road surface kicked up & sucked from the air drag through vents, or maybe exhaust soot from elsewhere? There's *loads* of muck there and it seems really out of place, even if it's blown in by a cooling fan somewhere.

[@mubd1234]

My guess would be that these electric buses are always in close proximity to other buses when sitting (at termini waiting for the next service, or sitting at depots), so there would be some diesel soot working its way in.

[@elmin2323]

Fun putting out a battery fire

[@noelj62]

good story coverage Dave.

[@georgeindestructible]

These things have a lot of space above them to place some solar panels, so with a smart controlling system you can either party of fully charge the batteries when or not in use or divert the portion of the power when the thing is moving in order to put less strain on the batteries extending their lifetime, all this assuming their weight doesn't become a diminishing return factor instead and that also depends if there's Sunlight.

[@FirdausIdros]

Scania-inspired Gemilang coach design is great. Yet to spot more electric bus built by the company in my town

[@tommy12345abc]

Awesome video - love the detailed tour. Can't wait to see the dirty toxic crap off the roads.

[@shango066]

LiFe batteries are much better than regular Lion, less density but indestructible

[@jfbeam]

Oh, they can be destroyed. They're more forgiving, but nowhere near "indestructible". (granted, they don't burst into flames when you stop looking at them.)

[@jfbeam]

@@Ormaaj They handle overcharge undercharge must better. They have no effective thermal runaway problem. Driving a nail through one is totally uninteresting. (charge cycles are very dependant on who made it. That's a function of the "witch's brew" in the electrolyte. As he said here, "twenty two thousand cycles".)

[@martijnpc]

We got a lot of VDL Berkhof electric buses driving around here in the Netherlands. Very interesting to see!

[@TheChemixInc]

Absolutly fantastic. Would love to see more electric vehicles everywhere.

[@aaronazz]

Excellent video as always. Thanks Dave.