EEVblog 1519 - FREE Your Sonos Speaker! (HACK)

[@pro5p3c7or1]

you need to REGISTER the speaker to use the "line in" function? do people realize HOW RIDICULOUS that is? why do people keep buying this kind of products 🙄🙄🤦‍♂ this is the best example of "You'll Own Nothing and Be Happy"

[@WouterWeggelaar]

yes, people realise that and then don't buy Sonos products, so you won't hear about that.

[@EEVblog]

Yep, you have to actually register to use the line-in function. Pure engineering evil.

[@over2seeyer]

we're living dark times where every big company wants to harvest your data

[@bevis71]

I don't think it says on the box REGISTRATION NEEDED. That's why some ppl bought it.

[@JohnBurgessMusic]

Next gen will come with a slot where you have to provide a DNA sample to login, only works while connected to the internet and a microphone that's always listening.

[@witchdoctor88]

Truly a heartwarming holiday tale. Dremels, capacitor selection, and hardware hacking. Brings a tear to me eye.

[@atkelar]

The production date thing on the case: The calendar is embossed in the mold, and every passing month somebody manually stamps the current month; so the "newest" mark is the actual one, so they can re-use the mold over n-months. Same as with books "editions" in the front cover where the numbers get removed rather than updated. It's a trick to make it easier to modify such things without remaking the mold; just in case the comment was serious 😜

[@westelaudio943]

Yes. This type of date code has been around since at least the late 1970s.

[@kbhasi]

Yep, I took a while to realise it when I took apart different devices for repairs. The little dials were a little easier for me to figure out, though, but once I figured both of those, as well as decoding certain serial formats, I could deduce the timeframe in which a device could've been manufactured. For the books, though, some publishers _(usually indie/minor and/or younger publishers AFAIK)_ just put a single number that they manually increment, but most _(usually major and/or older publishers AFAIK)_ I've seen do what you mentioned and put several numbers and then delete them to have the lowest number indicate which print run the copy of the book was produced in, likely more as a leftover from the days of manual typesetting using printing blocks before the age of computers and Adobe InDesign. I didn't realise those numbers on the copyright pages indicated which print run a copy was produced in, until an author I follow on Twitter posted a photo of the copyright page from a copy of her bestselling book to proudly announce that it had reached its 13th printing.

[@kevinmartin7760]

@@kbhasi Indeed, the "put in a bunch of numbers and remove them over time method" dates back to letterpress printing, where the printing plate would have been made of a metal alloy and had raised surfaces that actually do the printing. It would be a simple job to chisel off one number from the sequence every now and then. This is less likely to have been done if the copyright page was printed directly from handset type, as it would have been easy to just replace the number each time. Rather than storing the actual plates between printings, the printer might also keep stereotype flongs from which new plates could be cast. The freshly-made plate would have all the numbers on it, and some would be chiseled out before printing. This avoids storing large heavy plates and also takes care of the wear that the plate undergoes during printing. Plates can also be made photographically from negatives kept from one run to the next. In this case one would black out some of the numbers on the negative before making the plate. There is no reason, and in fact no simple way, to do this with modern direct-to-plate offset lithography. Nowadays the offset "plates" are discarded after the print run and new ones made for the new printing.

[@zilog1]

Oh hey, cool seeing you here :p

[@TechBench]

An actual project ... done to completion ... all in one episode! Fabulous viewing along with a lesson about planned obsolescence. Nice!

[@TheSanzca]

I have the play 1 gen 1 (and $1000's of gen 1 gear) and I agree with those that say it is BS that software can make your speaker obsolete. Yes, there is a separate app for the old stuff (can't mix and match with the new!), but I cannot even use my old speakers as monitor speakers! It is either the app or no go ( can't airplay or chrome cast to the speakers!) and the app does not look like it is being updated and even worse, the firmware. In my opinion, at the very least sonos should have open sourced the old code so that the community can add additional features and security updates. Let this sonos fiasco be a lesson for internet of things devices and also realize that you do not own these types of devices, it is up to the manufacturer if they will allow them to be usable, you just own worthless hardware. I know people with 30, 50 year and even older audio equipment that still works fine and is as usable today as the day it was purchased. Lastly, these types of companies (and apple you are one), are the first to preach about climate change and being good stewards of the environment, but it is their planned obsolescent gear that is filling up the garbage dumps and contribute to polluting the environment (not even talking about carbon cost of manufacturing), the stench of hypocrisy is strong with these companies. I will not buy another Sonos product, ever and any IOT thing I buy, if it cannot be controlled locally i.e. no apps, no services etc. that I cannot install, configure and run myself and are open source compatible, then I am just not interested.

[@LeMeBucallion]

Well said

[@XSpImmaLion]

Sonos seems to be one of those textbook examples where you have a team of engineers and designers that are super qualified and super professional, like true dedicated audiophiles there doing everything to make this speaker as good as possible, only for management to take a huge dump on their work and demand anti-consumer crap into the whole thing to force costumers who have been loyal to the brand because of it's history to throw away their older models and buy newer stuff just because apps and software stopped working. It's vile.

[@lasskinn474]

wdym? sonos was always the poster child for crapola like this. apple of the audio. it was made as a company to be this, it's not like it's some hifi company from yesteryears that pivoted into this.

[@lasskinn474]

@spaz you're missing the point... They made the company to do exactly what they're doing and closed drm audio path was part of the design parameters. Its not lile the management came afterwards and demanded them to make it anti consumer, being a closed system was the point all along through the existence of sonos and ties into the board design on purpose from day 1. That then ties into streaming deals etc

[@rohitkhanna4487]

Why cant people file lawsuits in large numbers in order to force companies to unlock the product to work as an line in or a bluetooth speaker once they stop supporting the software.

[@sparqqling]

@@lasskinn474 It is the core of the business model, vendor lock-in.

[@jonwelch564]

@@rohitkhanna4487 maybe we need to partition Elon to buy Sonos and sort it out.

[@RetroJack]

I love the fact that you treat your kids like people and not mindless idiots like so many other parents do - respect! 👍

[@techbaffle]

I like how SONOS reads as SONOS even when upside down 😂

[@Elberto71]

So you can identify it in the dumpster from any angle

[@westelaudio943]

Good job. Converting obsolete 'smart' speakers was an idea I had too for some time - at one point you are gonna get all that fancy Sonos crap at a dime a dozen and they actually have pretty good cabinets and drivers in there. However the sound response in your case won't be as good as the original, not only because of the leaky cabinet but also because of the rather rudimentary crossover. 1st orders and dome tweeters operating that close to resonance don't match well. 5kc would be a more appropriate crossover point. Also filters are meant to be designed for the exact impedance at the crossover point, and with the whole impedance curve in mind. Another improvement would be trying to match the midrange and tweeter levels (by ear or dB meter) using resistive dividers. Flip the tweeter's polarity to see if you get a better phase match that way (sound will be louder on axis at Fx). That's about all you can do without too much work and without a proper measurement mic set-up. Just suggestions though, I understand it is just a basement speaker.

[@dosgos]

Sonos would have a nice DSP scheme to adjust for the loudness too. Good enough for this neighbourhood.

[@westelaudio943]

@@dosgos Yes but that's not really neccessary, some of the world's best speakers are entirely passive. I wonder if the sub had some frequency response correction (Q compensation, low end boost) though, could be.

[@dreamcat4]

well what i want to know is if the sound is any better when hacking the i2s bus, because at that point i would expect that we benefit from the native crossover. however sonos also includes a mic and a setup routine to measure and compensate for the room. so i would expect that part of the native sonos sound adjustment technology to be absent here. at least... not without doing your own external version of room mic adjustment such as a sonarworks etc.

[@dosgos]

@@dreamcat4 Sonos locked out all the features here from playing music to all the fancy sound engineering. This equipment was a rental disguised as a sale.

[@RaduTek]

@@westelaudio943 but this speaker isn't "the world's best" at all. They're using DSP to overcome the limitations of the form factor, just like every other small form factor consumer speaker out there.

[@maxinlux6570]

In the olden days, Sonos used to have a physical shop in Luxembourg where they sold their (I think) very first product, a wireless kit for connecting your existing HiFi components (via Cinch/RCA connectors) and turn your home audio into a sort of Ur-home network. Yes, I'm that old...

[@Dont-come-at-me-24]

They still sell them

[@Circlotron]

Those powdered iron toroid inductors you used on the "subwoofer" crossover, they will vary their inductance all over the place with changes in current.

[@jrshaul]

Will they? Not familiar with this. Powdered iron is used in some speaker crossover parts, but those are much larger..

[@rhiantaylor3446]

Trouble with modern "speakers" with integrated electronics is that you don't know to what extent the amp section has a contoured response to offset the characteristics of the enclosure - not just a crossover. Glad it worked out for you.

[@elektrokinesis4150]

sonos very much does this, I don't quite think dave was going full audiophile on this, and there isn't really any need to be with what he wanted to use it for

[@IcecalGamer]

@@elektrokinesis4150 Most of the videos from Dave have at least one "Good enough for -stralia" lines in them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@jrshaul]

@@IcecalGamer I've seen what counts as "good enough for Australia." The Barra six you put in big frumpy family sedans will turn a tubular girder of a propshaft into a big steel pretzel - without even opening it up!

[@IcecalGamer]

@@jrshaul I think you missed the point. I wasn't dissing Dave or the small block (y are we on cars now?). I was just stating the obvious fact that, Even Dave (i think) mentioned in the video, this wasn't meant as an audiophile replacement solution. But it was made as a "don't waste actual good speakers, just because of a fricking app". Back to cars analogy, don't waste a good platform just cos the ECU is locked. Put a Halltek in it and go do skids. ✌

[@jrshaul]

@@IcecalGamer Where I come from, "has enough tuning potential to snap the rest of the drivetrain" is a good thing.

[@IanSlothieRolfe]

I have a couple of old bluetooth speakers (the portable type) that either went flaky or were from the start, but the sound quality was pretty good for a speaker of the size. I took one apart intending to gut out the speakers and any other bits that might be reusable,, but noticed on the PCB that there was a position for an aux input, and the amplifier had analogue input (possibly because it also had an FM radio?). So I cut a few tracks to take out the bluetooth signal which used to make annoying announcements all the time, wired in a jack socket and ended up with a quite useful battery powered bench amplifier. Its not hi-fi but its good enough for listening to music or tracing an audio signal through an amplifier.

[@jrshaul]

The SONOS appears to be using some DSP trickery so you'd need to feed a digital signal into the board. That said, they put the smart bits and the audio bits on a different board, so there's a big connector right there already - and chip manufactuers make it easy to use their parts for a reason...

[@IanSlothieRolfe]

@@jrshaul Yes, in the case of the SONOS it would have been tricky as you say because they seem to be using one chip to do multiple things, so Dave's approach was probably the best, but of course in this case the actual speaker system and enclosure is really high quality so its worth the effort of putting in different electronics.

[@jrshaul]

@@IanSlothieRolfe Sure Electronics makes a DSP amp board that might do it.

[@maxzuidberg2322]

I'd have loved to see some hack using the integrated amplifier. There are modules available that accept bluetooth and/or analog input and have I2S output. Might even end up being the simpler hack (?)

[@pasikavecpruhovany7777]

Would be fun exercise to try extract and modify he firmware so that line in is permanently enabled, keeping the DSP chain.

[@MatthewHarrold]

My eldest son was shopping for appliances for his future house (next 12 months). They now sell dishwashers with monthly subscription dish disks and bluetooth range hoods ... Dave ... have a look at "modern" kitchen appliances ... they are a multitude of failure points with zero gain. $0.02

[@NVRMTmotion]

Damn. Perfect timing! Our Roku Streambar died won't boot at all. It's on the healing bench all prepped for an identical upgrade and you've saved me the research! Nice.

[@InfernosReaper]

Sagan's old enough to contribute to videos to that degree? Wow, how time flies

[@EEVblog]

He'll be 12 soon...

[@alasdair4161]

I have a friend who is a Sonos fanboy and he happily upgrades the system when they force him to. last time this meant a full hardware upgrade after it self bricked, so they appeased him with a discount code on a new system. he's actually been suckered in so deep that he believes the three or five year push from them is a great way to keep having the latest and greatest performance product available (from them...). I still have stereo gear from the 80's that sounds a hundred times better, I run bi directional v5 bluetooth modules that also allows multicasting up to 100m range (to multiple Bluetooth headphones as well as my phone for music source), or the TV etc. His Sonos system cannot do this, yet he's spending thousands for a temporary subscription against my few bucks for permanent performance... and he appears to be content to do so. It stuns me that people think this way, completely hooked into the consumer money extraction machine.

[@Xiefux]

i bet he also uses iphones

[@alasdair4161]

@@Xiefux lol, I think you nailed it..

[@SS-hc6sp]

@alasdair4161, would you mind sharing the details on the module(s) you're using to achieve this? And are you actually able to get synchronized multi-room audio from this with commodity bluetooth speakers? I'm an orphaned Sonos user and searching for a multi-room audio solution without vendor lock-in, but am skeptical that bluetooth audio can achieve the sync (e.g. no latency or sync issues when standing between two speakers).

[@brainndamage]

The downside is that you lost all the DSP and filters that make it sound good. I imagine they did some sort of FIR filtering to correct the pulse response and give the flattest frequency and phase response possible. A passive 1st order crossover can't even come close to an active higher order crossover. So I would see if it's possible to hack the firmware to make it permanently line in. Maybe it's as easy as editing a config file once you get into the console if it runs linux. Or maybe it's very hard/not been done before.

[@AndrewFremantle]

Seems like an awful shame to discard all the existing drive circuitry. Is there no either 3rd-party firmware for the existing controller or a 3rd-party controller board replacement?

[@dolphhandcreme]

I designed an SPDIF-to-I2C and an Analog-to-I2C-circuit as a hobbyist several years ago. Only a matter of some opamps and an IC from cirrus logic. No big deal after all and worked on a breadboard and later on some prototyping pcb.

[@russellhltn1396]

Very nice. But personally, I would have licked to find a way to reflash the software so any DSP could be kept.

[@CircuitDen]

Having to register an account to use a line in cable is crazy, there is no reason to need an account for that. Also the end of support for old speakers is ridiculous, deliberately building a speaker to become unusable after a few years is insane, not even being able to use the line in. These kinds of products are just made to collect user information, then become unusable forcing you to buy the improved model.

[@cuteswan]

_The Directors of Sonos_ sounds like an awesome psychological thriller.

[@ryan176eircomnet]

Love to see more videos like this, modding and repurposing tech.

[@PhillipRhodes]

Agreed! 💯

[@jameshancock]

Just tap a raspberry pi i2s and kill the cirrus chip and it will work and you can install Plexamp, AirPlay, and way more and bob’s your uncle wifhout anything else. Even the top buttons can easily be made to work with the pi. (There’s even an i2s driver built directly into the pi os)

[@PileOfEmptyTapes]

That's some first-rate bodgery right there. Let's rip the guts out of a 3-way active DSP speaker - _what could possibly go wrong?_ Yes, you can technically do that, but we're talking the engineering standards of a backyard tinkerer. It's a bit like hacking a hole in the floor of a Toyota Prius for a "Fred Flintstone Edition". So much of speaker design is in the crossover and EQ. I would at least have attempted to do it properly after a look under the shielding. This kind of thing requires a more subtle approach. It may still turn out to be too much work to pursue, but you bet it would be interesting. That being said, not being able to use the _line-in_ straight out of the box is just silly indeed.

[@lilman227]

My parents still using a 12 speaker Sonos gen 1 setup in their home… It’s been like 5 years so far. I hate Sonos shady practices, but I can’t argue with the experience they’ve been having.

[@initialb123]

Nah, stufd Sonos and their app requirement.. Nice looking hardware no doubt a subscription model coming to a Sonos speaker near you! $5/month for SD $8/month for HiFi $19.99/ family package (if you have more than two speakers or people...

[@chuckfinley5206]

Someone gave me 6 of these. Haven't had the chance to open them. Thanks for showing me what's inside.

[@bigjoeangel]

Brilliant idea, so glad you caould make use of such a high quality speaker/enclosure. I did something similar with an old LG micro-system I didn't like (the standby power consumption was over 30W!, ffs).The tape deck and the cd player didn't work and I didn't care to fix them, I only used its line in function anyway to get sound from a PC and occasionally used the radio. So I dumped the micro system entirely and just kept the nice shelf speakers. I bought a very similar classD blutooth amp like the one in this video and use an old external HDD PSU to power it (even the barrel jack was the correct size). I wired in the speakers and used Blutack to stick it on top of one of the speakers, simple.

[@necrojem6355]

This was a really fun video to watch! it just appeared out of nowhere on my front page and I'm glad I watched. Always good to see audio gear reused rather than end up in the tip. The Aussie "near enough is good enough"approach is a welcome breath of fresh air compared to all the audio snobbery on youtube! Sometimes good enough really IS good enough! Especially for a workshop speaker or whatever.

[@tothehilt]

Try downloading a current OS or run updated apps on an iphone 6, you can't - it ain't just Sonos, it's everywhere. Good on you for not being lazy and breaking the cycle.

[@mikehensley78]

I have that exact Amp module. Mine rocks 2 bookshelf speakers and a 10in sub in the corner. The Bluetooth is sometimes a little flaky but mine is lined in to my pc. Powered by an old 19v laptop brick. I love it.

[@100SteveB]

Why people support companies that demand all of registering rubbish is beyond me. The only reason companies pull this kind of stunt is because people carry on buying their products. And with each new product they take more and more control away from the customer. You end up wondering who actually owns the product.

[@VIRAL_DNA]

Mod looks great and wow did that board ever fit in there perfectly! Great video as always and thanks for sharing!

[@mfx1]

The grommets are probably more about preventing vibration noise from the cables against the plastic casing.

[@1allan2]

I purchased one of these and installed it in my old workshop speakers - bloody great ! Im buying another for the caravan........

[@allartwatnudan1205]

Reminds me of a 'rebuild' I did for a friend last year. It was a really old school radio cabinet. Radio and record player. I think '60 build, didn't had tubes, but I guess first series transistors. Resistors were so old and dirty, the colour rings weren't readable. I placed a 12 volt SMP, the same audio board as Dave used in this video and of course 2 new speakers. To finish it of I placed warm LEDs in it so it looks original. The bulbs inside were ok, but used about the same amount of power as the audio amplifier. 🤣🤣 Result was amazingly good and my friend was really happy!

[@johnsonlam]

Love to see hackings to improve life and privacy.

[@Kirillissimus]

And the best part is that you can order everything you need for that including hot melt glue and wires from China and it will not cost more than a few yankee bucks delivered. Electronic mods are so accessible today that I don't know why everybody does not do it.

[@kyanhluong]

​@@Kirillissimus These product don't come by unless you in the modding hobby, you can try to recommend them to the right people tho...

[@landynhigh]

Really love this video Dave. Would be great to see this kind of thing more but I guess it depends what comes your way via the dumpster! Excellent content!

[@Doyle69]

I own couple of them amps and a stereo version, they're pretty good. I also use them to bypass devices or 3D print my own speaker enclosures.

[@SeanBZA]

Could have connected the new amp to the existing LC filtering on the board, which would have given more filtering on the signal, and meant the LC values would be lower, plus also reuse the existing connector as well. Nice upgrade to the speaker as well, improving it to a new spec for a low price, and getting all the DRM and advertising out of it as well. A good upgrade for the free speaker set.

[@InfernosReaper]

I'd have just harvested components off the board myself for that filtering.

[@Hitek146]

The on board amp is 5 channels, and the crossover frequencies are determined by the I2S DSP...

[@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse]

@@Hitek146 Yup. :) The filtering on the output is for filtering the PWM signal after amplification, and not for crossover. :)

[@davidlong1786]

Everything looked fine EXCEPT that first order filter and how you went about designing it. I can promise you that using a first order filter NEVER works out as planned. Speaker impedance varies with frequency and you will end up with a crappy response. Placing those inductors side by side like that will induce mutual coupling and changes the total value also. Just do some basic Googling to see why. Probably can find the info you need on the Parts Express website forum.

[@redsquirrelftw]

Love to see stuff like this getting hacked so it's usable again without all the software crap.

[@JohnBurgessMusic]

Very cool, it's exactly what I thought you should do when I saw the teardown. Even pro audio speakers are going the way of being highly complex and integrated. It used to be more common to have a passive speaker that was well tuned and constructed with external power amping, now they contain a switchmode PSU, class D amps and onboard DSP all slathered in silicone. Pretty much any component failure necessitates a whole board replacement. Fingers crossed the manufacturer will sell it to you without it being prohibitively expensive. Can't wait for the brave new world of IOT subscription based systems...bleh

[@Conservator.]

I doubt that that speaker will even sound decent without the Sonos DSP.

[@JohnBurgessMusic]

@@Conservator. Yes that's a good point if you're looking for the best frequency response. I'm not sure how much they fix in software compared to purely cabinet and driver design. That's my concern with my EV pa speakers if I ever want to mod/repair them. Very good quality cab and speakers, but it's all designed as a package with the onboard DSP.

[@zaprodk]

@@Conservator. It won't.

[@westelaudio943]

@@zaprodk It's possible to get it to that point though.

[@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse]

Hate the modern smps & class D based plate amps all you want, but they're pretty great tech when done right. I repair and design both older Class G/H as well as cutting edge class D nowadays, and it's really fun! There's so many things that are prohibitively expensive or complex in the fully analog world of passive crossovers or active analog crossovers, that the digital world with DSP and unification really brings a new light to the world.

[@tuttocrafting]

Unfortunately that crossover would be completely off, at least i would have tried to find the datasheet of the drivers, and i would have simulated the phase change to align with the tweeter with the woofer. (Or measuring directly the thiele small params if the drivers datasheet is unobtanium) The best choice would have done: buy a chap adau DSP board and a i2s BT module. Program the ADAU with the proper filter calculated above and feed the i2s to the original amplifier board. A nice project for the channel...

[@EEVblog]

Meh. Good enough for Australia.

[@tuttocrafting]

@@EEVblog if is good for you is good for me! A mention about the DSP magic would have been better... At least so people don't expect the same sound quality blaming the cheap amplifier.

[@lasskinn474]

@@tuttocrafting how do you go about simulating the phase change to align with the woofer with the tweeter when the phases are different lengths and peoples heads aren't stationary? like to some sort of useful end result anyway?

[@paulf.5261]

I’ve got a receiver that is not used anymore....and I also have a Tunebase that plugs into the lighter socket to send the phone or iPod signal to the FM radio in my car. Thing is I don’t use it in the car and I wondered if there was a adaptation that would allow it to be used to send the signal FM style to my functional hifi receiver allowing me to get a signal into my vintage gear🤷‍♂️ I guess the lighter connection would need to be ditched or adapted.....etc😬 Though I suppose there’s already such a thing..... if they’re still available 🤔 Possibly not. Guess I’ll have to check. Any thoughts though😁🙏

[@geotoxiz]

Wow thanks! never knew how those two/three way speakers worked with a single channel. I have been building my own speakers with Squeezelite firmware on a ESP32. Works great!

[@dreamcat4]

allright! now that's what i wanted to find out about here in the comments! Because that is then a lot cheaper and more economical than those other (more well known) RPI type of solutions. which you then have to pay a lot more money for an rpi etc. seem like it's best to get a LAN wired ethernet module too is it? seem like it would be worth the money to add that to the esp32 right?

[@Foche_T._Schitt]

You should spend some time on the Audio Science Review forum.

[@triangle3510]

I’ve read somewhere that you shouldn’t use non polar electrolytic caps for AC as they won’t last long on AC. Like they can be inserted any way into a DC circuit and then kinda “polarize” themselves according to the voltage applied to them. Is that right?

[@theDane70]

Great video, yes if you see anything like that pick it up and have fun... That’s actually how I got started in my electronics hobby, fixing tape decks & old VCRs then lots of walkman at school to fix...

[@bigwave_dave8468]

Sure, 1st order is fine but mind the total response when you turn on the "subwoofer" (lol) as it´s effectively a 3-way system with the two Peerless (full-range) drivers used as mid range. HF may need attenuation. You can go as shallow or as deep as you like but going deeper requires more fun, testing and knowledge acquisition :-) PS: Thiel-Small param´s for those drivers are on the internet

[@countzero1136]

Hackers 1, Corporations 0 - great result Dave!

[@VincentGroenewold]

Absolutely looooove this! I hope we've seen the last of these things in general, now that repair ability is kind of a thing.

[@musashigundoh]

I wonder if it's possible to hook up something like a Raspberry Pi via I2C to the amplifier board to still be able to stream digital audio to it except without all of the Sonos cloud garbage.

[@AzN_devil]

rpi doesnt do i2s afaik, esp32 does...iirc there are libraries out there to do bluetooth to i2s streaming floating around

[@joshcliffejones]

I have done exactly this for 2 of the first gen Sonos Play 5 devices! I use one in my garage workshop for “decent enough” music and the other as an on the go jobbie when needed :)

[@KorAllRBare]

Got It! Add Sonos to my "Black List Products" I will avoid at all costs even if it's a freebie!!

[@roboman2444]

Something that might be more difficult would be to modify the firmware running on it.

[@EEVblog]

Possible, yes.

[@Conservator.]

@@EEVblog Hi Dave, How does it sound without the Sonos DSP? I would think that Sonos would manipulate the sound quite a bit to make that speaker sound decent.

[@zaprodk]

@@Conservator. It sounds "meh" at best, since the cabinet isn't designed to sound good without all the DSP correction.

[@gblargg]

I did this to my Acer monitor once to eliminate the 8-second power-up logo screen. Made an 8051 disassembler, dumped the ROM, found the offending code, reflashed, all via the DDCI connection using hidden commands. Since I had it figured out, I also added a strobed LED mode for a blur-free gaming mode. Would not do again, lots of hours sunk into it.

[@roboman2444]

@@gblargg I did something dimilar to a Dell monitor. Also 8051. I desoldered the dip 8 pin flash chip and modified it that way. Really fun to hook a logic analyzer up to the flash chip, and see what code/data the 8051 is fetching in real time.

[@PhilXavierSierraJones]

In theory someone could make an ESP32 board that communicates with the I2S DAC chip, and truly make a drop-in replacement for those otherwise excellent speakers... It's a big shame that they decided to slap a DRM and other online garbage on it.

[@pederhansen6483]

I found one Sonos Play 5 Gen 1 also in a dumpster , got it home , resat it to factory settings with power cable unplugged , holding down the speaker button ,set in powercable , and waited untill lights was flashing white , downloaded the Sonos App gen one , registred , searched for the play 5 and it found it , was up running wireless music from Tunein radio Sonos radio and much much more , easy peasy , if you had done so , you were running also in 5 mins.....

[@Conservator.]

I bet Sonos has included some hefty sound processing on their boards. I doubt that that speaker will sound anywhere near it did with the original board but that’s just my guess of coarse.

[@zaprodk]

Your guess of *course is correct. It will not sound good.

[@mrlazda]

It is not hard to get sound quality equipment to Sonos speakers, mid range bookshelf speakers with mid range amplifier sound much better then Sonos speakers. Sound processing in speakers is just sign of bad design of speakers, properly design speakers do not use any sound processing (or any active component at all), most speakers after mid range quality are passive.

[@JMMC1005]

​@@mrlazda I don't necessarily disagree, but at the end of the day all that matters is the sound waves generated. Traditionally you'd do this with careful and (often expensive) physical design, nowadays it's possible to compensate with DSP. Neither approach is inherently bad, and sometimes DSP lets you get surprisingly big sound out of smaller speakers.

[@mrlazda]

@JMMC1005 I do not disagree with you that DSP can easer make bad acoustic design sound better (hide bad design, and maybe more appealing for ears) but that is only patch for bad design. DSP are mainly used bacouse is cheaper solution (and easier) to make speakers sound "good". Small speakers can sound good (or even great) but they are no where close to big speakers, but small speakers have their place, all depends of your needs.

[@DotArve]

Tech note: Those are not "horns" inside. They're merely flared ports that somewhat alter the properties of the port response. Most software that can model the response of a woofer in an enclosure will allow for you to take this into account.

[@tech29X]

Horn loaded speakers are very efficient. Love Klipsch.

[@petersage5157]

Maybe try searching for lower value poly capacitors and use them in parallel? 680n poly caps are about 36 cents each for quantities over 10.

[@LaurenceFoxBermuda]

Sonos stuff is amazing. I have 9 of these in my house. They work perfectly. Software is simple to set up. I have set up hundreds of them. Not one has ever broken. Bricking was a temp thing until they realised they were not being green. Mine are up to 15 years old and just work. They still sell for $100 to $150 on Ebay. They had to make a version 2 as the old processors couldn't do what they want to do in the future. Show me another wireless speaker that still works 12 years later. Why would you destroy something so good? You probably just didn't know how to reset it.

[@runforitman]

10:54 Worker on their 51st attempt to get the production date correct: "Yeah that sounds about right"

[@Poebbelmann]

I think every month with a dot is where the die press form was used.

[@jtb2586]

0:08 No it dident you have to give all your details to sonos to use a old app. I't works fine if you can just connect without all the privacy concerns raised by having to give your details.

[@KeithFudurich]

This is what I like to see! Good stuff.

[@Damicske]

That board has a BT5.0 also so wireless or wired ;) now add a USB-C charger port zo you can charge up your phone ;)

[@AKADriver]

Given the lengths they went to to isolate the sides of the board, I'd be tempted to physically saw off the digital audio side!

[@firesurfer]

I thought that was the point.

[@iamnotverybright2509]

Oh come on, you should've integrated the soft buttons at the top, at least the power button as a soft-switch with your "world's simplest latching circuit" and switch the mains with a relay, powered with a capacitive dropper. But honestly, this looks cool. A damn shame for Sonos to use software locking techniques to prohibit playback through the auxiliary port.

[@redsnappa7837]

Good work mate! Should call it the NOSON

[@dr_jaymz]

What the hell.... I was expecting to reuse the main board power amps by injecting into the signal path and using something like an esp32 with i2s? Was I expecting too much? I'd like to have had a go at that main board, I was hoping the evil stuff was on the daughter board and those pin headers were all you needed.

[@WiztotheIzzard]

Placing the unit upside down (would it be a SONOɟ?) would give you better access to the knobs, and you could print / lasercut / resin-fill to cosmetically fix the new 'top'.

[@Hoerli]

Very cool idea to make the actually good speakers even better. What's missing now is a Raspberry Pi (or another small computer) with Snapcast and Mopidy. The WLAN antennas could possibly be used even further.

[@yspegel]

Exactly why they bring you decent hardware for low cost, so people feel tempted by DrEvil. Like basically every phone these days. (when enough people shout it's a good product the bad publicity fades away in the noise)

[@Spark010]

Was there space to mount the board vertically and have the controls on top behind the original power button?

[@EEVblog]

I don't think so with the horns and the subwoofer.

[@goodi2k7]

Nice video but if i2s is actually everything that is needed maybe a 10 bugs Bluetooth to i2s receiver module would do the job?

[@brantwedel]

"Ripping stuff out is way more entertaining" ... future content creator right there!!

[@nissimtrifonov5314]

Don't get me wrong, this is a nice project. I have one concern regarding the sound quality of the final result VS the original product, though: When a manufacturer which takes the sound seriously designs a product like this, which is essentially some (carefully selected) drivers in a custom built box, usually the sound signature is not going to be exactly as desired (it never truly is). However, as the manufacturer is also building the electronics powering the drivers, they have the ability to add electronic correction (eq) to the signal path so the final outcome becomes more or less the desired sound signature. This particular project lacks this "step" in the signal path so the sound is going to be different than the sound that came out of the product when it was new. How different, and is the result an improvement or a deterioration - is subjective. But there will be a difference, probably

[@coondogtheman]

I have this iHome iPod speaker and about 15 years ago ago I modded it to be a non bluetooth dumb speaker with the guts of a cheap pair of iPod speakers because it kept cutting out because it used digital everything like power on off and volume and it ate batteries like crazy. I still have that hacked speaker and it still works and it no longer eats batteries.

[@joeyjustin6895]

I could have sworn. The inductors are shorted to ground after the cap. And always remember the lower the cap the more the tweeter will blow early. I would have gone 6k because 2k the midrange will blow the tweeter

[@michaelcharach]

I would be curious of the speakers audio performance stock vs modified.

[@jeffm2787]

TPA3116D2, I like that chip. I've got several amps around the house that use them. So long as they filter the output stage right they work great.

[@WolfmanDude]

Disallowing the user to use the speaker via the line in or bluetooth function has to be illegal in some countries. I can understand them shutting down online support, but this is literally remotely disabling a standalone product. This HAS to be illegal, there are definitely laws against that. Remember the lawsuit against apple slowing down older IPhones via updates?

[@leo11877]

I want to do the opposite. I would like to take the streaming board out of a cheap S2 speaker and get digital output from the streaming board to my higher end DAC. Not sure if it's possible.

[@DeathTVOfficial]

The sonos really is a shame. We got a newer one in the shop I work at and had to immediately get rid of it. No bluetooth, no line in, no casting, nothing. Only works with a select few music streaming apps. It really sucks because their speakers really do sound great, nice crispyness with booming lows, I just wish I could use the speaker as a speaker.

[@rackbites]

Noice. You can design and 3D print the knobs to be any shape style you want. Different colours are good to easily remember which does which if they are not labelled or easy to see.

[@cinobro6393]

Is it just me or is this video not showing up in EEVBlog’s recently uploaded videos?

[@noahderrington5156]

I think you are missing the point a bit with Sonos, it’s a multi room audio system designed to work with multiple devices across a network. The reason you need to setup the system before using features like the line in is because the line in is synced across the network and plays out of other Sonos speakers in the system. It’s not really designed as a standalone speaker although it can be used like that. It’s not such a big deal to setup an account it only takes a couple of minutes once and even using the gen 1 app it’s very good system. I know what you are saying about not wanting to setup an account but then this isn’t a product for what you want to do. The sound and build quality are excellent and as a multi room audio system which is it’s intended purpose, it’s the best out there for sure.

[@309electronics5]

but locking the software so that it cant operate is kinda evil from sonos

[@noahderrington5156]

@@309electronics5 it’s not locked at all, that’s my point. If you use it as intended, it just works - it’s reliable and sounds great. To be fair, Sonos supports these products for 10yr+ and even the very first Sonos products still work with all the latest streaming services that didn’t even exist at the time they were manufactured. I have had Sonos for decades now and I can’t think of a better supported set of products and reliability out there. Just because you have to set it up before you use it isn’t evil, that’s completely reasonable. If you want a basic Bluetooth speaker, there are plenty of options for that purpose. This isn’t a standalone Bluetooth speaker in the first place so it’s not surprising it isn’t one!

[@AttilaTheHun333333]

Wasn't Sonos the speaker company that deactivated one of their first gen speaker models by firmware and made it a paperweight?

[@zaprodk]

Yep.

[@AttilaTheHun333333]

@@Okurka. Yes they were...you pretty much said it yourself.

[@AttilaTheHun333333]

@@Okurka. A non functional speaker is a literal paperweight. 99% percent of those speakers did end in a landfill. Sonos didn’t care for the environmental impact…a horrible move and even more horrible company. You modded your speaker…good for you, honestly. But it doesn’t make the toxic behavior of Sonos any better.

[@iblackfeathers]

one of the problems with the current sonos portable speakers is you can't use wifi unless you give your gps location every single time. i once activated it far away, but then connecting to a local hotspot required me to turn on gps again. the only way around it i think was to bring the wifi router to a different location and somehow give it internet access, then connect the sonos there. once that is registered then you can bring your router back to its original location and start using the wifi connectivity with gps off. such a pita.

[@Broken_Yugo]

Why does a speaker need GPS position?

[@countzero1136]

@@Broken_Yugo Because all IoT stuff is basically spyware

[@17qaz17qaz]

Would it be possible to use a Raspberry Pi or an Amazon echo board to replace the Sonos board that controls the speakers?

[@de-bodgery]

I'm listening to you right now on a FOSI audio amp.

[@AlanMedina314]

This is a solid example of what to do with a sonos speaker other than the rubbish bin.

[@PWingert1966]

I recently updated my Sonos App and my entire configuration was wiped from the app. I am also no longer able to find and locate the speakers to add them back on the app. Totally frustrating. I can still use the beam and two first gen Play 1 units through and KDMI to optical TOLink connection (The HDMI connection is not stable. I connect it to my cable box, and it keeps dropping the connection. I connect it to my TV and it connects, disconnects and then reconnects. making it impossible to use that way. I don't want to spend another 3 or 54 hours trying to re-configure things. The only downside is that I must now manually adjust the volume on the playbar rather than using the app. I also lose music playback capabilities through the app. I honestly can say that I would not buy SONOS products again.

[@billynomates920]

could you use any of the other 'evil' components if you de-soldered them and what for?

[@fieldlab4]

So how did Bluetooth work? Was that part of the amp or a little aux unit?

[@konsul2006]

This should be fixed with a software/firmware upgrade to get rid of the sonos stuff. Can't imagine that hasn't been done.

[@initialb123]

But then how can they turn you into subscriber in 2023 or 2024 when the only app that makes it work is a paywall ;)

[@firesurfer]

@@Okurka. Right next to the candy bars.