EEVblog

Dave investigates two very serious issues with jitter on the Rigol DS1000Z series oscilloscopes, including the DS1104Z and new DS1054Z
Some sort of modulated sampling/trigger jitter problem at 5 microsecond intervals (the "5us jitter problem"). And severe jitter with the AC coupled trigger mode, a problem which is also present on the DS2000 series scopes as well.
NOTE: So many people have been confusing AC trigger coupling with AC input coupling people will be more familiar with. This issue has nothing to do with AC input coupling, it is AC trigger coupling!
Mads from EcProjects found the 5us jitter problem:
• Rigol 1104-Z - Strange...
/ ecprojects
Forum: www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eev...
EEVblog Main Web Site: www.eevblog.com
The 2nd EEVblog Channel: / eevblog2
Support the EEVblog through Patreon!
/ eevblog
EEVblog Amazon Store (Dave gets a cut):
astore.amazon.com/eevblogstore-20
Donations:
www.eevblog.com/donations/
Projects:
www.eevblog.com/projects/
Electronics Info Wiki:
www.eevblog.com/wiki/

[@OrbiterElectronics]

Well spotted Mads, and thanks for following it up Dave.

[@TheWP]

Computer Engineer in training... Just bought one of these scopes (DS1054Z) literally 8 hours ago. Needless to say, I didn't want to see this video when I woke up this morning! Hopefully a software issue as others have hopefully wished for as well. On a side note, love the blog Dave!

[@TheWP]

Ahh, it's fine for now - will still meet my needs. Can't beat the price.

[@TheWP]

***** Exactly why I bought this model. lol

[@UberAlphaSirus]

***** being hackable is part of there marketing, they will close the loop once enough are sold. Bring it on though!

[@Passco666]

how its working these day?

[@Oboemasesetokoe]

bye bye weekend for the Rigol Engineers!

[@ThingsWhichArentWork]

Thanks for the heads-up Dave. I hope Rigol fix this soon or I'm going to have to rewrite my letter to Santa. Cheers!!

[@uporabnik62]

My DS1054Z works perfectly. AC and DC triggering with no difference. Software 00.04.03. SP2 and Board 0.1.1.

[@LordSquallaman]

Dude, honestly.... I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS.

[@EEVblog]

LordSquallaman Thanks!

[@PeterCCamilleri]

Thanks for the catch Dave! Well that is certainly something that needs to be fixed! Damn! I was all ready to purchase one myself and now what do I do!! Argh Boodles!!

[@Tangobaldy]

I have no idea what dave. Is on about but its entertaining. I understand the wiggly lines are fuzzy.

[@velox__]

I've got no idea what i'm looking at but a great video as usual!

[@jeromekerngarcia]

"Nice catch Mads!" & "Thanks for timely spreading of the info Dave!" I was ready to purchase a DS1054Z because of your recommendation a couple weeks ago, Dave. I think I'll hold off for a while now, until Rigol fixes the problem. Either that or save up a bit longer & go Tek or Agilent!

[@nsjohnston]

I've been on the verge of buying an DS1104Z for the last few weeks, I'm glad I held off. I hope they fix this.

[@BarriosGroupie]

Awesome ruthless review as usual, Dave. I'm hoping it's a firmware problem which can be updated because I really wanna buy the latest Rigol.

[@spikester]

Haha, the "couple of more scopes" part had me in tears of laughter. Good stuff.

[@ElectroplatedToaster]

Well... Just updated FW to 00.03.00 SP1 on my DS2102 (it is unlocked to a DS2202, all features, but I doubt that makes any difference on this "issue"). Still same "problem", 10ns jitter and 50ns delayed display when using AC triggering coupling, ANY square wave input will show the "issue" - But note: the _input_ coupling has nothing to do with this (that would have been found years ago...). To recreate this issue you must set _trigger_ coupling to AC (MENU button below trigger level knob, choose "Settings", then "Coupling"). Sorry if I'm being overly clear... Anyway, I almost never use AC triggering and am very happy with my gear! I would still recommend Rigol over other brands to hobby users - any time. I use much more expensive equipment at work and they too have their quirks... Cheers!

[@stephenjones4135]

I was able to reproduce exactly what the person (at 2:12) who asked you about the jitter problem. I was playing around with the Source Modulation ("Src1Mod") and found jitter when mucking about with FM, AM and the frequency of each. Perhaps the jitter for some people is coming from their scope having modulation in "ON" state and if it is turned "OFF" then it goes away. Scope is MSO1104Z-S, SVersion 00.04.03.SP2, HVersion 6.1.1, not getting jitter with anything you did. Now here is my question: does anyone else get a jittery sine wave on 10mV at 5ns with a frequency that fluctuates between 35MHz and 150MHz (probes attached but not connected to anything, 10x and 1x is same result, and all set to AC Coupling)? Lastly, I noticed the "Auto" indicator in upper left screen rapidly changes back and forth from AUTO to T'D. I know these are extremely small measurements at five billionths of a second but still curious nonetheless.

[@ElectroplatedToaster]

Dave, I very seldom use AC triggering but I had to try... DS2102 FW 00.01.01 HW 1.0. Got about 10ns of jitter in AC trigger mode (zero jitter in DC mode) but I also noticed something you might have missed since you used a 20MHz input, the AC trigger is always offset by 50ns, so when horizontal is below 10ns on a lower frequency input, you won't even see the slope you are triggering on. I have no issues with dual slope triggering in AC mode though. Both channels seems to behave the same. Anyway, this is not my main use case and, I'm _very_ satisfied with this DSO! But you purists (in an admiring sense) are of course helping Rigol and others in the business!

[@Psychlist1972]

You need more oscilloscopes :)

[@ChipGuy]

Ok I played around a bit more and found out that I need a square wave in order to see the jitter when the trigger is set to AC coupling. Now I can confirm at least that one. It does not show with a sine wave.

[@nagyizee]

I have a DS1074Z-S, fw.00.04.00, tried with it's internal signal source on 15MHz and 5MHz, it doesn't show that behavior at 5us. Maybe the issue is in some internal clock reference which is in sync with the signal generator also. Unfortunately I doesn't have a separated signal generator. The trigger AC coupling issue is present on mine also.

[@JaredReabow]

hey Dave can you do a video on ac conversion to dc .and specifically what a bridge rectifier is. why power supplies feed dc at frequency and why that use dc chopped up rather than ac? I may be wrong about effectively turning dc on and off rather than ac but if i am, why not use dc chopped up?

[@jedreg123]

My 2 cents: on my DS2072 turned to be DS2202 on firmware 00.01.01.00.02 (HW 1.0.1.0.0) both DC and AC coupling works perfectly fine. Now I have to reconsider any next firmware upgrade :) EDIT: my bad, I took AC/DC channel coupling instead of trigger coupling. In my case jitter is not visible in 1k/1MHz but obvious on 10MHz... waiting for Rigol's answer

[@InterCity134]

Curious. Now in 2020 did Rigol fix that bug yet? There is a 2014 firmware patch that vaguely needs Mentions a trigger bug but not what the bug is. v00.04.00.00.00 2014/03/18 - Fixed bugs in triggering function v00.04.02.04.07 2014/12/31 - Fixed triggering function - Fixed storage function - Fixed bugs of jitter in the signal under the AC or low-frequency coupling

[@suchaluch5615]

Did you find it out? Is the problem fixed? I'm thinking about buying a 1054Z, but I'd like to buy a scope I can trust :-D

[@Speedow]

the jitter on the sqare wave looks awesome, it's like a river

[@elboa8]

I never thought that I'd be pleased I could only afford the DS1052E!!

[@EEVblog]

elboa8 Yeah, at least it's rock solid!

[@GardeningZ]

Tried it on my DS1074Z. Software version 00.04.00. Played with the internal function generator and two external source. Could not duplicate the problem.

[@Daweim0]

Could the jitter be caused by a lack of proper termination? I don't own or have any personal experience with oscilloscopes (aside from using cell phone mic inputs), but it seems like a possible issue to me.

[@bobbydororo2000]

my oscilloscpe can't read transient activity from RC, RL, RLC circuit. Can you help me solve it? is there something wrong with my oscilloscope or I just need to make a few changes in setting Thanks :)

[@oOMonkeyMagicOo]

A question that springs to mind is have any of these scopes been modded to double the frequency using a hack or firmware mod?

[@Chris-yk5rm]

Based on this new finding, would you still consider the DS1054Z for a $400 scope? I am looking to use it for 2nd year University robotics and automation with signals up to 10Mhz while im a student and cannot afford a $1000 scope.

[@OneBiOzZ]

Im curious if this works with external AC coupling or if it works on trigger input channels ... Im going to wait until this is fixed before buying any rigol scope! ... tested this on my gatten and my owon and they both work just fine!

[@jfcrow1]

See it on my DS2202 but if invert signal and back it goes away. It seems to be a transient problem that goes away once locked

[@WillArtie]

Just got my DS1054Z yesterday from Emona - couldn't reproduce, but will keep testing with other hardware, funcs etc. This might be a dumb question, but I noticed that the right-hand-side trigger indicator disappears when you AC couple from the trigger menu. This doesn't happen when you AC couple from the normal channel menu. I also noticed it happened on Dave's unit when he did it in the vid. I can still adjust the vertical trigger level when I use the knob, but the little indicator is gone. Is this meant to happen or I am just missing something? DS1054Z (No hack) DS1ZA164***blah 00.04.02.SP3 0.1.1

[@troydavis5078]

I know this is couple years old, However, was the jitter issue ever fixed at a factory lvl with the 2000 model with AC coupling.

[@oriole8789]

I wanted to chime in just to say that there is also such a thing as "normal" trigger jitter in addition to function/signal generator jitter, both of which would add to the jitter visible when you offset the waveform sufficiently (though this varies based on scope design). This normal trigger jitter is very small comparatively. When I shift a waveform by 5uS on a

[@bensthingsthoughts]

Was planning to buy a 1000 serie. I am now sure to wait a little more ...

[@robbowman8770]

ac input coupling is important as we know, but when would I want to use ac triggering? What does it even do? Can you ac trigger on a dc coupled signal and would you want to? Confused.

[@petemnu]

hi dave could it be a band width issue, on the 1052 with 50 mhz no jitter on the wider band scopes you get it

[@TheHuesSciTech]

A lowpass filter can't introduce jitter; not an analog one at least.

[@wduembeg]

MSO2202A No issues with jitter on delay 5us or Trigger Coupling AC, but the Trigger Both (falling/rising) doesn't work reliably, if I change the time base it some times trigger on both but not reliably., SW 00.03.01, HW 2.2. For Input I used 1 kHz square signal.

[@davidvb3754]

Are you sure the probe or other wiring connection do not add to the problem for the AC coupling ? of course, no explaiation for the 5µs jitter....

[@lesterelectronics223]

I was going to buy the ds1000z I may wait a while now!!

[@ftonello1]

As i can see in your blog, Rigol has fixed the problem by issuing a new firmware. Dou you confirm that? Is These models steel a good option?Thks

[@gamingSlasher]

I saw Mads problem and thought, bummer but not a killer. But the AC coupling? Are you trying to pull our legs Dave? How can no one noticed that before??

[@EEVblog]

gamingSlasher Yes, Ilm socked no one has reported this, that I am aware of anyway.

[@GardeningZ]

The first "problem" I noticed on my 1074Z is the ground noise. The probes on the left side has higher noises than the ones on the right. The noise in the millivolts range, but they are noticeable. Switching probes does not help.

[@zachbrown7837]

So If you were to count the number of oscillator cycles in the oscilloscope over the period of 5us at any arbitrary time, you would have a consistent number of cycles. but if you were to vary the period, the number of cycles would not be consistent. This leads me to guess that the oscilator clock has a 5us periodic signal FM modulated onto it. So something inside the oscilloscope is generating a 200kHz waveform, and it's interfering with the oscillator?

[@polik971]

Hi , I have the DS1074Z-S and with the internal generator I can go just up to 15MHz square wave. Btw it seems mine don't have the 5us issue (some little jitter is visible also at 0us delay so it may be the generator). Indeed it has the AC coupling trigger jitter issue. Firmware version is 00.02.03.SP5

[@AlexandreJasmin]

If we're to believe no one complained about that AC coupled trigger issue before, it may be worth considering if that feature should be supported at all.

[@EEVblog]

Alexandre Jasmin It turns out it was discovered and reported back in 2013!

[@metaforest]

I use AC coupling all the time to spot and measure P-P noise on power supply rails, quiescent digital lines, and other cases where DC coupling makes it harder to see what is floating on a DC offset, and when. Now one could argue that with a DSO that supports high sampling rates, this is not as big an issue for most cases, but I'm not going to buy a scope with an obviously broken AC coupling mode like that. Too bad, I was liking the look of the Rigol gear. They need to fix this pronto.

[@tonykara]

I'm seeing the same problem on a scope I received today. S/W revision: 00.04.02.SP3

[@hdmalpas]

I have just put my Siglent SDS 1052DL through the same test and it is fine even when I have it AC coupled. No jitter, What is going on with Rigol?

[@NickT6630]

Its Jan 2020... did these problems ever get fixed?

[@koller8930]

yes, the all have been fixed

[@ThomasFlyckt]

I can not reproduce the problem on my DS2072A. Works great. S/W 00.03.00.SP1 H/W 2.0

[@OrbiterElectronics]

My 2072 does it on DC coupling too, only to a lesser degree. And switching to AC has a similar issue, also to a lesser degree. And dual slope trigger no worky either on CH1.. CH 2 works ok.

[@TheHuesSciTech]

Are you aware that the bug is with AC *trigger* coupling (accessed through the trigger menu), which is a completely separate thing from the input signal coupling (accessed through the CH1/CH2 menu)? Dual slope trigger works just fine probably, you've just got a holdoff setting that causes it to continually find rising edges only. Not a bug with the scope. Try manipulating the holdoff. I've got a better explanation on the eevblog forum thread for this video.

[@JimmyDStevens]

Well I just did a quick test with the internal 1kHz square wave on my DS2072 and I can't reproduce the errors Dave had...

[@TheElectr0nicus]

10:45 That's not a bug that's the new 3D waveform view feature :D

[@sic-]

On my DS1074Z soft-upgraded/unlock to 100MHz and using the internal source (set at 20MHz), I don't see the 5uS jitter issue at all. However the AC coupling jitter problem is clear as day. Software revision 00.04.00. Serial number DS1ZB16115xxxx.

[@pedrocastillo7013]

That is just great! I have already ordered my DS1054Z from TEquipment. I hope it is a firmware issue only, otherwise I will have to consider buying something else. What can you recommend Dave in the same price range? Siglent, B&K, Instek? thank you.

[@EEVblog]

Pedro Castillo That's the thing, there is nothing of comparable bang-per-buck.

[@pedrocastillo7013]

EEVblog Well I guess in my case there is no sense in crying over spilled milk anymore, TEquipment just sent me the UPS tracking number of my DS1054Z and since I am phisically located in Honduras, Centralamerica believe me when I tell you that here my options are "very" limited. Like I said I hope it's just firmware, I will keep an eye on it via the EEVblog and your reviews. Thanks Dave, love the videos, I have learned and applied a lot from them.

[@pedrocastillo7013]

EEVblog Hello Dave. Have you heard anything from Rigol about the solution of the jitter problem in the DS1054Z?? thank you for all of your videos and for sharing the knowledge. Best regards from Honduras.

[@michal.gawron]

I have DS2072 and I *do* have the jitter problem at 5 µs, about 10 ns wide. Edit: nope, I can't actually confirm that since at 10 µs I get the same jitter, so it could be as well my cheap generator. On the other hand I don't seem to have AC coupling jitter at all. Works perfectly fine for me. My software version: 00.01.01, and hardware version: 2.0. And by the way, mine is "hacked" to get full 200 MHz bandwidth, so it shows Model DS2202 in the system info. (And by the way, I don't have any LED lights in my room. ;-))

[@MikeNHOC]

Dave, how much does one of those pocket type Oscilloscopes sell for? I am looking for a scope to play around with and can't afford to spend a lot.I'm not looking to use it for diagnostic stuff, mainly just looking to "play" around with it and see the wave forms from different pieces of electronics.

[@ethanpoole3443]

Unless you are intending to limit yourself to low level signals (5VDC or less in many cases), and often no AC input coupling option, and your signals are going to be at very low frequencies, the pocket scopes cost more than they are worth. They also have some of the worst user interfaces ever imagined by man. If you do go that route, please do not let their almost limitless shortcomings dissuade you from upgrading to a proper oscilloscope later on. They are in no way a real introduction to the capabilities and usefulness of a real scope, especially for debugging and educational purposes. That all said, though, you can get very good deals on older used scopes. The analog scopes are dirt cheap, especially the lower bandwidth models, and on the digital storage scopes you can either purchase an older used scope or pay just a little more for one of the newer Rigol models (even with their bugs they are better than any cheap pocket scope on the maket). YMMV

[@EEVblog]

Mike Notarnicola Buy a $50 2nd hand analog oscilloscope EEVblog #86 - Buy a real Analog Oscilloscope PLEASE!

[@MikeNHOC]

Ok, I was just curious.. I Had a telequipment scope several years ago and sold it as I needed the money. Now I am kicking myself for doing so. I'll have to put some money aside for one.. As I mentioned, it is not a need as much as it is a want.. Thanks guys for the reply..

[@MikeNHOC]

EEVblog What about a telequipment D54? I might be able to get it for a song.

[@twocvbloke]

Looks like they've got a British Leyland employee on the component purchasing department, "Hmm, cheap chinese poorly made parts? Looks like they'll fit, that'll do"

[@EdEditz]

I always thought ACDC were garbage :)

[@gotj]

@ 14:09 it's not only the jitter, the wave is also (wrongly) shifted to the left, on the x axis, the wave edge isn't at the trigger point.

[@freman]

great, I literally just ordered one of these, it hasn't arrived yet...

[@TheMrMinecrafttnt]

This are the perfect oscilloscopes for 3D effects... :D

[@siavasharash5448]

😂

[@TheSlowGrowth]

Hi Dave, just because the other scopes have no jitter at 5us delay, doesn't mean they don't have it in general. It could be every odd multiples of 2,5us and your 5us would look perfectly fine. I don't really think they have the same jitter problem as the rigol scopes, but the way you "proof" that the other scopes don't have a problem with jitter is a bit weird.

[@revealingfacts4all]

Could it be software rounding inaccuracies?

[@revealingfacts4all]

Does the jitter only appear with odd ending offsets like 15 and 25? If so, then maybe stronger evidence that it's just a floating point issue with the software.

[@michaelromanyshyn7023]

"Gonesky!" I love it.

[@Catoblepa77]

I suspect that they introduced a digital filter to determine the trigger level and didn't account for the filter delay...

[@teardowndan5364]

Digital filters have constant delay so that would not explain trigger jitter. The delayed trigger issue might be caused by reference clock drift/jitter that happens to have nulls every 5µs of delay after the clock gets filtered by the PLL. The AC trigger issue on the other hand really puzzles me - I have a hard time imagining how they could screw that up.

[@tra757200]

Dooh!! I was going to get one for xmas. Recall time.

[@darkobul1]

My Owon DS7102 dont have this issue haha Thsi looks like a software issue as form of signal is there. Hope they fix it as I got also 1000z series but did not have a chance to play with it.

[@mewyn]

EEVblog Dave, let us know if you get an update. I was seriously thinking of buying a Rigol with my holiday money, but I think I may need to save up and get an Agilent (urg, keysight. *eyeroll*)

[@armpitdew]

jittergate?

[@novislavdjajic9240]

So, after this do you still recommend the DS1054Z or the old DS1052E?

[@EEVblog]

Novislav Djajic Don't buy the 1052E, it very long in the tooth.

[@novislavdjajic9240]

EEVblog I really don't know... The AC coupling problem kinda put me off, I hope it's a software problem they can correct.

[@JohnAudioTech]

Novislav Djajic Buy the 1052E. It may be old, but it is solid and cheap. After a few firmware revisions and perhaps even hardware revisions, it is pretty stable and does what it is supposed to do. Otherwise, I'm sure Rigol will sort this out.

[@novislavdjajic9240]

JohnAudioTech Guess I'll wait for Rigol to say something about this.

[@iamdarkyoshi]

Lol. Its a Jitter-Bug

[@bobhaha]

Why would you test the other scopes with the same 5uS delay? If you ruled out the source as being the issue, you should have swept the trigger delay in the other brand scopes to see if it can be recreated there as well. I assume it has to do with Rigols sampling routine, the other brands would not use the same routine... so sweeping through the trigger delay times would have confirmed if it is a Rigol issue, or a generic issue.

[@EEVblog]

***** Of course I didn't expect the problem to show up in the other scopes, but I had to at least show one other brand scope to keep people happy and prove that it wasn't the source at fault. And then I wanted to show a few brands for the AC coupling.I did not have time to test other scopes in detail, that would require a lot of work. Perhaps you can do it for us and share the results?

[@bobhaha]

EEVblog Sorry I meant, Why did you test the other scopes with the same delay... I was genuinely interested as to why you did that. But you have answered my question with your reply anyway. Unfortunately I only own a DS2000 series scope... so I can not be of any help. Keep up the good work!

[@desnort]

Problem duplicated on my new DS2072A SW level 00.03.00 SP1, HW level 2.0.

[@jackpinecreed6587]

Didn't the firmware updates fix these problems?

[@dtiydr]

Soo.. what have been the answer from Rigol about this? A new update that will render the hackabilkity to zero?

[@dylbob9000]

did the 00.04.03 firmware fix the issues?

[@dylbob9000]

hmm, got a reply email from a Rigol technician today after i asked them if there was a hardware revision. said that the latest firmware resolved that but he would say that. a multimeter isnt doing the gob for me atm, need a o-scope to calibrate those pots. plus im getting more interested in this side of things, so having one as good as this one was supposed to be would have been handy

[@dylbob9000]

seemed a good price point for what it was supposed to deliver

[@Pico_Farad]

I trust Rigol will solve this.

[@KronoGarrett]

Ugh. I knew something was acting funny, but I hadn't figured it out. Oh well, hopefully the new firmware flash will fix the issue.

[@envisionelec]

At 12:46, your dialog triggers my Siri. I had to try it again to be sure...yep.

[@EIsad]

Why youtube why 360p

[@Slugsie1]

Because you're watching it before YT has processed the HD version. #HipsterKZbin

[@EIsad]

Slugsie Dam itpoped up in my g+ and i thought its ready it looks horrible on a quad hd screen

[@YensR]

KZbin "calculates" the resolutions one after the other. In a few minutes the other resolutions should be available.

[@jakubbrach1045]

Keep calm and use Tektronix :)

[@opelmanta3967]

is problem fixed

[@Anamnesia]

FFT? Aliasing?

[@WeAreGRID]

You know what they say about bugs! Where there is one cockroach, there is a thousand more under the refrigerator!

[@thundolisazri3373]

CRAP ... just tested mine. gonna send an email to Rigol now.

[@budleyca1]

Wow..what a shocker..I guess that the old saying prevails..you only get what you pay for...I sure hope that it is not a hardware problem...could put them out of business if they have to replace all the scopes that they sold...

[@SilverGreen93]

For DS1054Z, with official firmware 00.04.02.SP3,all works fine. No jitter.

[@CaptainDangeax]

Bummer. I just bought a Rigol 1054Z to replace my old broken Tektronix 2430.

[@rivalo5]

So basically the AC coupling, which is pretty useful, of these two scopes are pretty much fucked? Why didn't the engineers spotted this? I'll hope it's just a software error and not something that's wrong with the design.

[@rivalo5]

Also, please update us on this stuff. The Rigol DS1054Z seems a great oscilloscope for Engineers and Students, and I was planning to buy one this year, and probably others will as well. But you wouldn't buy it in this state...

[@TheHuesSciTech]

Don't confuse AC signal coupling with AC trigger coupling. The former is what you want most of the time, and works fine; the latter is only applicable in certain contrived situations and is what's broken here. It's not good that the feature is so broken, but there is a reason no-one seems to have noticed this for the past 2 years -- hardly anyone needs AC *trigger* coupling.

[@rivalo5]

TheHue's SciTech Thanks, I'm probably confusing them. AC Signal Coupling is removing the DC from the AC signal and AC trigger is using the AC (60Hz Sinusoide in Europe) as trigger right? If so, yeah I'm confusing them and it won't really matter for me but yeah It should work..

[@TheHuesSciTech]

Rivalo You're correct about AC signal coupling, but you haven't correctly identified AC trigger coupling (the thing at fault in this video). [Side note: there's no reason to expect the mains frequency to be in sync with the 10 MHz signal generator, so the signal would be more than just a little jittery if you triggered off AC mains.] So the signal goes into the oscilloscope, optionally through the AC signal coupling, on its way to the ADC. At this point it gets tapped off to the triggering circuitry. But there's the option to insert another AC blocking capacitor* for JUST the trigger circuitry (so you're still seeing the full DC content on the screen, but the triggering is based on a high-pass version of that same signal). This AC coupling for just the trigger circuitry is what's broken. * Or equivalent DSP processing,details unimportant.

[@skiptabor]

Confirmed. My 1104z has the trigger issue, but... When i start with a 1 MHz signal, induce the trigger jitter issue and then change the freq on my sig gen to 5MHz (there is no jitter if I start at 5MHz either) the jitter vanishes, huh?! Can anyone reproduce this? This doesn't seem to work as well if I change the sig gen freq to an arbitrary freq (eg 2.14 MHz) but it does seem to make it better. As far as AC coupling triggering goes, confirmed. It doesn't look quite as bad as Dave's, but it is still utterly useless with an AC coupled trigger. Let's get this corrected Rigol. I'm running ancient v2.00SP1 firmware on which the sys info does not list HW version. This is clearly not an issue introduced in new firmware only.

[@EEVblog]

Skip Tabor Thanks for the confirmation. Based on some early feedback the amount of jitter in both cases does seem quite variable between units.

[@hellnawnaw]

EEVblog That seems to indicate a hardware issue, since the software should be equal across all devices, yet the problems seem to have quite a big distribution.

[@famossfla]

Sad to hear this.... My faith in Rigol just flew out the window.... I was beginning to wonder why their products are so cheap.

[@teardowndan5364]

Giza Plateau The offset jitter might not be too bad if you do one-shot triggers but if you turn on averaging, it can seriously mess up your measurements. Also keep in mind that Dave's 1054z is nowhere near as bad as the post that prompted Dave's response, meaning that some 1054Z are much worse than Dave's. Also, the AC-trigger jitter is far worse than 10ns, rendering the scope nearly unusable beyond one-shot. The missing/broken falling-edge trigger on the DS2000 is somewhat of a shocking omission too.

[@TheHuesSciTech]

Daniel Sauvageau And how often do you need to use AC-trigger coupling (in the trigger menu)? As distinct from the much more common input AC coupling (in the CH1/CH2 menus)? It's poor that this bug exists, I agree, but let's not overstate the impact of this. There's a reason no-one's noticed this for 2 years.

[@teardowndan5364]

TheHue's SciTech The 1000Z series is not quite two years old yet and part of the reason nobody "noticed" it sooner could simply be that people who did notice it shrugged it off as jitter in their own design rather than the scope when they ran into it.

[@TheHuesSciTech]

Daniel Sauvageau same issues is in ds2000 series, over 2 years old, and just no.

[@ihatesmartphones]

I Just Got a Rigol 1054Z I appears that Rigol Fixed the jitter problem

[@gotj]

and @ 8:16 it's shifted to the right. There's jitter + an offset.

[@Finiras]

Why do you have so many different oscilloscopes?

[@EEVblog]

Finiras I'm ap rofessional video blogger and reviewer, they come in handy so comparison and situations such as this.

[@lejink]

EEVblog I think you just enjoy collecting them

[@simontheu]

Its still cracking value for money though right?

[@simontheu]

No wait a minute.... Thats how its so cheap!

[@tailwheel65]

No sign of any of these issues on a 2072A.

[@dedb25]

My DS1074Z does the same thing. but also @ 10 - 20 - ... uS

[@laserhill]

My DS1054Z works perfectly fine from 100Hz to 300KHz. AC and DC triggering woth no difference. Software 00.04.03. Board 0.1.1.