EFAP Movies #56: 300 - The Beginning of the War Arc

And so begins...
The adventure into the world of war and also swords and also battles and castles and such. Join the intrepid EFAP crew as we get rocked by the world of Zack Snyder!
Edited by Lil' Poteto

[@Indigo_Gaming]

I tried to enjoy 300, but the lack of inclusion of real-world brands such as Turkish Airlines really broke the immersion for me...

[@wwyd4akb]

I want Leonidas to kick the emissary into the pit of Doritos, then swallow some Mountain Dew

[@vario6492]

Well boy oh boy do I have good news for you

[@The_Primary_Axiom]

We’re Persian family. I remember my entire family watching this shit and making fun of the way they made Xerxes, and made all Persians black for some reason. We were all laughing at this movie. Zack did us Persians dirty lol

[@jerubaal101]

​@@The_Primary_AxiomThey were diverse!

[@The_Primary_Axiom]

@@jerubaal101 Lol. You know what diverse means in Hollywood right? Non-white and Non-white male. For instance, if you have an all Asian, all African-American, all American-Indian, all Hispanic and Latino-American, All middle eastern, you name It will always be counted as diversity and be able win awards in Hollywood. However, if you have an all white cast like a Viking movie or Viking series, or a movie about 1800’s Denmark, or Russia, or Germany, Sweden whatever. They don’t count it as diversity and you cannot win awards. This is in their rules. Doesn’t matter how amazing or important your movie is, if it’s all white cast they exclude you from any awards. Then they say we’re diverse and for inclusion lol

[@Dave_L913]

Dead Leonidas in a crucified position -- is this the origin story for Zach Synder's obsession with Christ imagery?

[@frankzappa9148]

He was laying down dead. What was he supposed to do?

[@MilkT0ast]

My friend was responsible for the cgi of the giant troll. But get this, only his eyes. Eveb back then, everything was so compartmentalized.

[@robotjones6434]

"THIS. IS. SPARTAAA!" - Sergeant Baggins

[@Roy_mustang7]

13:35 That edit was very YTP worthy, shout out to the editor I am crying 😂😂

[@blueeyedemon8]

Never forget the legendary NASCAR driver Dick Trickle. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@thumpire]

“That that that worked out.”

[@RobTheDoodler]

I burst out laughing at “trans rights!” It was so absurd and stupid and I love it.

[@marcthomas5949]

I'm gonna assume he saw that very funny 300 Sparta Trans meme

[@theBlackFox15]

@@marcthomas5949 could someone point me in the direction of what that could be? That moment in the video was funny but I was super confused, and would appreciate some context.

[@marcthomas5949]

@@theBlackFox15 kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioDbkoOpp9SanJIsi=sNn5_z7U93A8d5a4 The only thing I can think of is maybe these kinda videos as a reference

[@elementSe34]

@@theBlackFox15 I thought it was because the scene sort of looks like a protest?

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

I think Rags was drunk and was spouting stuff randomly as well as the stuff the "people" or "men" were wearing. I instantly got it but it's understandable others would've been confused. But that's why we love the doggo.

[@dklwos8088]

Genuinely excited for this arc. I do want to give a preemptive thanks to all the editors, guests and of course the hosts. Mauler and Fringy have discussed before how much work goes into these edits and I know it can be taken for granted; so, I wanted to say thank you for all the hard work.

[@Satus21]

[@fakecubed]

I'm really excited for Shad's trivia throughout this series.

[@alexhayden219]

Thank you, EFAP and friends 💕

[@virtueofabsolution7641]

I genuinely don’t understand what they mean by “the war arc”

[@fakecubed]

@@virtueofabsolution7641 This group, more or less, is watching a bunch of war movies, and they will be posted all year long.

[@blackdragoncyrus]

Oh, this is the movie where he says "It's over nine thousand!" and kicks Palpatine down the big toilet.

[@Gandalf-The-Gay]

Yes, exactly.

[@fakecubed]

But somehow Palpatine returned, so they made 300: Rise of an Empire.

[@christopherkelley1664]

Is your avater the Jack in the Box outline logo?

[@szeltovivarsydroxan9944]

And still, somehow Xerces returned.

[@SiriusSphynx]

I especially liked the part where Leonidas pulled out a tommy gun and said, "rest in piece ya dirty basterd"

[@TheEldritchGoth]

for a second I thought "tell them about the giant troll man I killed" was a Rings of Power reference then remembered this arc was recorded eons ago

[@leakyboat224]

As the spiders foretold -Bilbo Baggins

[@vario6492]

Rings of power are so notorious, their infamy echoes through time in both directions

[@odigity]

I realized that at the end when they talked about what they expected to see in Justice League.

[@alexhayden219]

The real battle _was_ spearheaded by 300 Spartans, but also included around 8000 other Greeks. Going into the third day, Leonidas saw that they'd held off the Persians and reduced their numbers, but their own defeat was inevitable. He told the other armies that they were free to retreat hom. The 300 Spartans remained for a last stand, but so did many of the other divisions, in order to continue holding the Persians back as long as possible to enable to safe retreat of those that did.

[@GothPaoki]

Only 700 thespians actually stayed back in the final day and ofc also died.

[@moleman7632]

The battle also coincided with a naval battle at Artemisium where the combined Greek navy fought the Persians to a fairly bloody draw, then withdrew to Salamis (one of the few remaining large ports after the Persian's sack of Athens) where they had a more successful battle against the Persian navy. This lead to massively reduced supply for the occupying Persian army and eventually led to the withdrawal of the bulk of the Persians after the loss of their naval dominion.

[@ΓιάννηςΝικολάου-η5ω]

​@@moleman7632They kinda covered the battle of Artemisium in the second movie. It involved an oil tanker...

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

The cripple was actually a local man of the area that betrayed the Greeks.

[@TheSatisfiedPig]

There was a pretty decent 1960s movie called The 300 Spartans that depicts the Battle of Thermopylae as well. Dunno if it's super historically accurate, but it's much more grounded than 300. Ephialtes is considerably less freakish looking, for example, and Xerxes is just a guy.

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

10:23 “That was too much.” “Yeah, but it was AWESOME!” *That explains SO MUCH about Snyder’s career.*

[@demod2080]

I respect that kind of enthusiasm. 😂

[@zaja2418]

That's really dumb, but he's so cool... but that's so dumb!

[@XxAegremxX]

@@zaja2418oh my God! He so God Damn Cool!!!

[@alexhayden219]

It's estimated that each of the 300 Spartans had 1 or 2 slaves with them. Spartan women _did_ have more rights and autonomy than most other women in the ancient world, including other Greek women. Spartan children did not have any notable effect on the local wolf population.

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

And walls did exist in Sparta, not to mention the movie kinda forgot the 7,000 Greek allies that fought alongside them, with 500 staying with the Spartans in the end. Not to mention Sparta had two kings. Like the Consuls when Rome came around. Though I do like the idea the Persians somehow got Elephants, Rhinos, monsters and such across the Bosphorus when at least the first two hate being on boats (Hannibal knew this well). And the fact Xerxes looks like a male stripper and not what he originally looked like pre stripper in the second movie, a more accurate look if what he was. But then again, the main character in the second movie is decades older and not a middle aged man fighting battles as well as Leonidas. Guess Spartans aren't as unique as they thought if an Athenian leader, especially one that really was an old man irl, is as good if not better than them.

[@mercenaryknight5419]

@@RhysCallinan-bv1wi Well, this is based on a graphic novel.

[@dumdumer892]

What about the CGI wolf population?

[@alexhayden219]

@@dumdumer892 History shows that the Spartans get the CGI wolf population under control and to a minimum. Once the Spartans were defeated, the CGI wolf population exploded in numbers and they can be found running rampant, tearing apart young children throughout the southeastern Peloponnese region to this day. In 1931, the government of Greece declared war against the CGI wolves, dedicating much of their financial resources into their anti-CGI wolf based military efforts, leading to a seven year war. They fought to a standstill and eventually conceded that the ongoing threat of the still rising CGI wolf population's attacks was something they'd just have to live with. It's as a result of the reduction in military, financial, and morale reserves that Greece was unable to hold their interests in Albania against the Italian front in 1940 and later became an occupied nation. In 2014 serious efforts began mounting within the government to once again bring war to the CGI wolves. Hopes of fighting back against these monstrosities were soon dashed during the country's financial crisis a year later, caused largely by CGI wolves preemptively devouring the taxes of citizens, preventing the government to collect and negating any serious efforts to be made in renewing the ages-long battle.

[@alexhayden219]

@@dumdumer892 I had written up an extensive history of the ongoing problems with the cgi wolf population but, as with cgi, it didn't manifest in reality and didn't post for some (or nough) reason.

[@Gojeto346]

Fringy’s very real grievance with Rags never being prepped being played off as a joke is why male bonds are so strong

[@mrdropkicker1]

Same with Rags snarking at Shad talking about nods to history/historical accuracy just before that.

[@morganseppy5180]

It's legit unprofessional. Bc Rags is all puffed up strut.

[@sparkypack]

​@@morganseppy5180 Fringy: liar! You're with him! You brought Rags here to kill me!

[@abeaconintheoffice]

@@morganseppy5180That is something I've come to 'notice' in the past few episodes I've watched. Raggs doesn't seem to have done the prior viewing before the conversations so he ends up not really having said anything of substance beyond following what the others have said, or simply repeating their thoughts. Something must be going on with him.

[@The_Real_Frisbee]

@@abeaconintheoffice Before thinking that, remember that this was recorded quite some time ago, and a lot of EFAP movies aren't in order from when they were recorded. It's solely based on just when they want to release them.

[@alexhayden219]

Zack Snyder's best two movies are where he basically copied a graphic novel panel by panel.

[@za-ir5ni]

His best film is actually Dawn of the Dead. But that is also copying something else.

[@dynamite_dynamite5954]

@@za-ir5niIts also written by James Gunn.

[@alexhayden219]

@@za-ir5ni fair enough. It's interesting how his movies have gotten progressively worse, rather than better. Should be studied.

[@BrennanCh06]

And the parts that he added are the worst parts

[@bZman]

@@za-ir5ni AMEN easily his best film with Watchmen a close second in my opinion.

[@silverscorpio24]

"Damn man. Michael Fassbender hasn't aged. He was old back then!" 🤣🤣🤣

[@AngelsLance]

To this day my headcannon is that 300 is a prequel to Stargate SG-1. You can't convince me Xerxes wasn't a Goa'uld.

[@jimmydaigle8892]

I literally thought the exact same thing while watching this

[@jimmydaigle8892]

Also remember when that guys eyes glowed orange

[@primarybufferpanel9939]

And the Orc people the Unas.

[@ΓιάννηςΝικολάου-η5ω]

300 takes place in the Warhammer Fantasy World. The Persians are clearly Chaos worshippers of Slaanesh and the Spartans sre from the Border Princes.

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

​@@ΓιάννηςΝικολάου-η5ωThat.... actually makes sense

[@tljscrewjob6397]

I can’t believe I just found out a few months ago that Faramir’s actor was the narrator of the Deadliest Warrior show. And hearing the narration in this, all I’m expecting is a breakdown of the kills at the end. 😂

[@pontiusporcius8430]

I too like pointless hub.

[@RecluseBootsy]

He's also Van Helsing's little friar buddy.

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

​@@RecluseBootsyWell they did watch that movie, which you can find on this channel.

[@NathanCassidy721]

In the movie’s defense, Zack always told historians who criticized him, “It’s an opera. Not a documentary.” And it makes more sense when you consider the unreliable narrator angle and the original comic was based off a movie, “The 300 Spartans”.

[@RhysCallinan-bv1wi]

It's more a comic book adaption Tbf.

[@NathanCassidy721]

@@RhysCallinan-bv1wi Not really having actually read the original comic cause Zack definetly added scenes that weren't there. And Zack's point was more, "You are taking this a bit too seriously because you are looking for something else."

[@SuperTab2]

In my opinion most things in this movie can be explained by the whole thing being embellished by the survivor who is telling the story. It's basically propaganda to make the spartans look good and everyone else look bad.

[@alexhayden219]

basically

[@anon17472]

Which, ironically, is pretty historically accurate for Sparta

[@RebelCannonClub74]

Spartan Cadets did not have to kill a wolf per say, they had to kill one of the millions of slaves captured by Spartans and bring it back to their superior without getting caught by the state police that were actively hunting them. The author of the 300 book said (and I may be misremembering) that he omitted Spartan slavery in favor of general spartan cruelty and their superiority complex over all other civilizations. Viking Ulfhednar actually did have to go kill a wolf to join their warbands. (Ulf = Wolf) Wolves were much more common back then, their population didn't dwindle until industrialization tore down entire forests.

[@RebelCannonClub74]

Also, Spartan women did not have "equal rights or more rights than other women" as we understand it. Spartan women had the same level of responsibility to the state; birthing warriors . To that end, they were given educations, military training and the same superiority complex Spartan men had over other Greeks. Spartan women were arranged to marry in their 20s to veteran warriors in their 30s or 40s they've never met before. Leonidas and Gorgo (who is his niece by the way) weren't just making love for the fun of it. They were trying to make as much kids as possible in case their eldest son died in the Agoge.

[@sirchadiusmaximusiii]

Hey! Someone that knows history. Good on you. Replace Shad next time.

[@gr33nsk1n]

I dont think there is any historical account of berserkers having to bring back wolf pelts

[@Tronous117]

5:55 Rags, the reason the Spartans were so fearsome is their shields pointed up! Unlike the fleet in Rise of Skywalker, they knew which was up!

[@wilius1428]

One thing the boy loving or homosexuality was not that popular in during Antic period it's a common myth that has been only backed up by cherry picked pottery art from Greece. Among thousands of pots only few hundred depict homosexual intercourse and that is mostly by Satyrs a mythological monster. Depicting sexual intercourse between males is around only was found only on very few pots. Also, one need to remember that that kind of pottery was only popular among elites and does not represent the population as a whole. Homosexuality like in most ancient world was very frowned upon they had specific laws to punish homosexual behaviour like making a man walk naked among the streets with a radish in his anus. Boy loving was even more frowned upon it was used as an insult attacking ones character. Yes taking a young boy under your wing to teach was common but any kind of sexual relationships were not accepted, I believe it was punishable by castration. Generally Ancient Greeks would be considered very sexually restricting society and bigoted in modern standards. To know more watch "The Lie Told to Us About Our History | Ancient Greece" by Leather Apron Club or "The TRUTH About LGBTQ+ in Ancient Greece - Once and for all" by Metatron.

[@Gnostic_Oppai_Enthusiast]

Based

[@wilius1428]

I might be a bit mistaken about the castration punishment, but I am pretty sure that anything under age 12 was strictly prohibited. And even above age 12 it was strongly looked down upon you needed a lot of political power to get away with it. Like in most time periods. Also it was seen as homosexual which was not accepted.

[@AdmarilDarius]

The thing with the oracle is loosely based on a practice of inhaling volcanic fumes to see the future. The oracle of Delphi wasn't into interpretative dance in quite that way though.

[@steelshanks1265]

More like convulsing on the floor in actuality...

[@HectorLopez0217]

Mimir: Brother I seem to recall a battle in your homeland. One involving a door of fire. Kratos: The Hot Gates yes… Mimir: Is that regret I hear? Kratos: Maybe once but no longer

[@JediLordRevan]

Man, that is how old this thing is. Justice league wasnt out yet when they recorded this. Wow.

[@thuglifebear5256]

I _knew_ Fringy would love the "traitor carrying persian coins around with him" bit.

[@ajmatheson2807]

I hate that I have to defend 300, but so much of the stylized visuals came from Miller's comic. There were a lot of 1:1 shots if I remember right. That and the over-done grotesqueties of the Persian army are because this is all a propaganda story from Faramir. He is describing the enemy as monsters and trolls and such, as any wartime propaganda dehumanizes the opposing force, while making superheroes out of the Spartans. It's his story to the frontline before that charge at the end. Goofy, yes. All Snyder's fault, no.

[@Dogboon-]

300 must be viewed as a fantastic embellished epic story to inspire. That's why it's ott and has giants and bizarre and extraordinary situations.

[@stephenbrenchley8104]

Agreed, I think it's presented as a mythical tale. The kind that is exaggerated and embellished to inspire future generations.

[@NathanCassidy721]

There’s also the weird meta of the comic book it’s based off of is based off a movie, “The 300 Spartans”. Which is equally as accurate with its historical “content”.

[@harbl99]

@@NathanCassidy721 At least _300 Spartans_ actually ran over real stuntmen with real chariots.

[@jhnshep]

​@@NathanCassidy721you mean 'meet the Spartans ' lol

[@NathanCassidy721]

@@jhnshep No, I mean The 300 Spartans. It's an actual movie from 1962 that Frank Miller cited as his inspiration for the comic. It's a budget movie similar to films like Ben Hur and Cleopatra. I get your joke, but I wasn't kidding about the weird meta with 300.

[@RecluseBootsy]

I gotta be honest, i can watch Mauler, Little Platoon, and Drinker take apart a film for hours on their own. Complete with reasonable script doctoring. But the more folks they add on EFAP, the more it just becomes who can shit on the movie the most as fast as possible, louder than everyone else on panel, and making obligatory/formulaic jokes while someone is making a point. Especially with Snyder. Why even bother watching this shit when you literally hate the man and refuse to let the film breathe at all? There used to be valid criticisms laid out in these long format reviews. Now, any weighty observation or fix is just *drowned out* by the 3,000 middle school jokes we've all heard before. I love you guys, but this show's quality, in particular, is dropping by nautical leagues every time you do this shit. Maybe i missed the point of EFAP being a break or outlet from all the serious film criticism you guys do on your individual channels. Maybe EFAP's becoming a satire of itself? Idk. All i do know is there's too many cooks spoiling the broth. I need an Unbridled anything from Mauler or Platoon's final coffin nail for Ahsoka and DSW. Something focused and written. This shit ain't cutting it. 😂

[@lakabaka]

I dont know if its Rags that is instagating or Fringe but its cringe af.

[@RecluseBootsy]

@@lakabaka ngl, both of them get pretty fucking annoying when it isn't their turn to speak and can't help but shout over the hosts, but then they get all kinds of pissy when they get cut off or someone takes a jab at em. I wish Rags would fuck off altogether or actually add something of substance to the conversation instead of the generic twitter comments he's always repeating. I don't think the guy has had an original take on anything really.

[@ramert32]

You the same dude from reddit who said something similar?

[@RecluseBootsy]

@@ramert32 nah, Reddit is AIDS.

[@SadPeterPan1977]

Mauler: "EFAP! What is your profession?!" EFAP Crew: "AHOOO! AHOOO! AHOOO!"

[@Garrus1995]

“How is that a skill?”

[@alexhayden219]

Someone else commented similar to this, but I liked theirs: "EFAP, what is you profession?!" "NOUGH, NOUGH, NOUGH!"

[@ΓιάννηςΝικολάου-η5ω]

TOXIC BROOD! TOXIC BROOD! TOXIC BROOD!

[@doopdoopdopdop7424]

Goo! Goo! Goo!

[@helios4753]

I was expecting to really enjoy this one. This is probably my least enjoyed efap segment. Your coverage of this was not very good.

[@theBlackFox15]

A movie directed by Zack Snyder, based on a comic by Frank Miller, and is actually watchable. I cant imagine how this film would look of Zack did this today. With his current directing style it would have looked as ugly as Franks art style (apologies as i really don't like his art style)

[@christopherkelley1664]

It's very 90s in the negative sense

[@newenglanddynasty4882]

300 is one of the best movies that can convince you to stand in the front lines of battle with honor. Also stylized enough to where the inaccuracies are forgiven

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

And yet, despite the absurd historical inaccuracies, 300 is somehow still better than most Hollywood historical dramas in recent years...

[@fakecubed]

It's based on a comic book, not real historical events.

[@thunderlighting2006]

If you say it's still pretty stupid

[@liamjm9278]

@@fakecubed And what is the comic based off of?

[@bretticus6722]

You know what else they used in Ancient warfare that's not in 300....FREAKING BREASTPLATES!!!😡

[@bryanttownsend381]

When Rags was making his joke about shields pointing up, I thought we were going to get a Rings of Power reference....then I realized this was recorded years before that show.

[@Fargoth_Ur]

The only movie I can think of based on a graphic novel based on a film based on a myth based on a historic event.

[@TheRightTackle_]

In the comic there's a great line right before "TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!" where one of the Spartans says "We're with you sir!" and Leonidas responds "I wasnt asking you. Leave democracy to the Athenians boy". Always got the feeling Frank Miller was well aware of the irony of these dudes claiming they're "fighting for freedom and good" while owning slaves and murdering their own newborns who they deemed physically unfit.

[@BigBroTejano]

To be fair, in the view of the Spartans they were defending the freedom of their own people and the good of their own way of life and culture. Let’s also not forget that the “democratic” Athenians also practiced slavery and were rather selective about whom could enjoy the “freedoms” of their democratic process. Meanwhile in Spartan society women enjoyed rights and privileges that were non-existent for them in other Greek states like Athens.

[@morganseppy5180]

It's worse than that. They were unavowed "colonists" in that they were like 10% and just took over sparta and made slaves of the spartans. They never considered themselves Spartans but ruling class. They were def supremacists.

[@BigBroTejano]

@@morganseppy5180they didn’t “take over Sparta” they were the Spartans from the city of Sparta that they founded. The non-Spartan slaves were the Helots.

[@morganseppy5180]

@@BigBroTejano ah, i thought they basically took over. Thanks! Edit: this is basically what i was remembering: according to Herodotus, Macedonian tribes from the north (called Dorians by those they conquered) marched into the Peloponnese and, subjugating the local tribes, settled there.[33]

[@SiriusSphynx]

​​@@BigBroTejanospartan women did, the other women were slaves, and probably had to do certain... things... for them. Im sure they had all kinds of respect for women. To be fair though

[@UchihaOokami2596]

I really hope the “Boy-lovers” thkng became a meme for the group and stuck through the entire war arc. Absolutely loved it.

[@aitchisondaniel]

Snyder is good at writing stories when someone else has written them for him.

[@Soapy-chan]

32:20 Easy reason why he says Hell instead of Heaven. The greeks only had Hades as an afterlife and it was shitty for everyone basically. The writers should've used Hades instead of Hell to avoid any confusion.

[@the_absurd_hero]

As a lady, I thank you for showcasing the collective abs of Gerard Butler, Michael Fassbender, and Faramir ;3

[@Gandalf-The-Gay]

I'm very thankful as well. (⁠ʘ⁠ᴗ⁠ʘ⁠✿⁠)

[@HugoGojibiter]

As a straight man, same

[@Sig509]

they were fake, well some of them were

[@Dogboon-]

What about the guys too?

[@ImMichaelB]

​@@Sig509Good airbrush work though.

[@kye4216]

For some reason I only ever considered ww1 and later to be “war” movies. I always thought of the others as just historical movies.

[@MegaSpideyman]

Why do you think that is?

[@eatonknass247]

The movie that launched the career of the man who epitomized "eh, its ok"

[@MrFallenone]

Okay Shad, Mr. Modern man. Cool it with the judgement towards those who have not heard about our lord and savior. Spartans were not more evil than some societies that still exist today. Chill.

[@SolarDragon007]

They were pretty bad.

[@Mac-t884]

They directly inspired the Nazis and the development of modern fascism.

[@n4m31355h4dow]

Yeah killing baby is not that Bad. If i remember the real test was pourring Cold water on the baby and if he cry they kill him

[@sparkypack]

In most cases we can only speculate what happened hundreds of years ago.

[@warlock6a29]

Persia was more open-minded than Greek city-states in that era despite being a monarchy.

[@jegsdinogod5091]

The spartan gay thing was likely propaganda, shad. Metatron tackled that in a vid I think

[@jacksonperez5615]

As for the shot where Leonidas broke the arrows. While ridiculous, it should be noted that the Persian army and really shitty wood to make arrows with and this would help

[@liamjm9278]

Where does it say that?

[@skits_3d824]

I know that this movie is very inaccurate but I like it. It's at least a reminder that yes 300 spartans fought against the Persian Empire and died fighting for their people. As a person that loves history I appreciate that and I do think they look cool but at the same time, put some ARMOR on these guys. They did wear armor in battle.

[@h8thegr8]

It’s adapted from a graphic novel. But yeah, it’s super dope despite its historical liberties.

[@SolarDragon007]

The historical inaccuracies are a result of the framing device. The whole story is told from the perspective of a Spartan commander trying to inspire his troops with a mythic retelling of the 300 Spartans. It's the main reason why I've never had an issue with the liberties the film takes from the actual history.

[@arman_1024]

It was more around 7000, not 300.

[@arman_1024]

@@SolarDragon007that’s an excuse to rationalize Millers one built-in racism, bigotry, and hatred. The framing device doesn’t explain why the Greek/white elements were completely omitted from the Persian side, something that the Greek historians never ignored or omitted themselves.

[@othertalk3313]

@@arman_1024 But the movie does show the Spartans body-shaming and disabled-phobia-tisms against the lil' gollum guy Ephialtes. It has been a while since I watched 300, but didn't they want to throw that hunchback off a cliff or something? I mean... come on... they weren't exactly portraying either side as nice people.

[@markcoroneos7811]

Leonidas: "tell them how i solo'd an ice troll. And make sure to mention the part where i jumped off a sword and did flips and shit".

[@mats1365]

I smile every time I see Peepo on screen. Then I get sad realizing he’s covering up boobies:(

[@lordvarrax5060]

05:54 Do you know why the shield floats and the Persian emissary man cannot? Because the Persian emissary man sees only downward, into the well, but the shield gazes not downwards but up.

[@TrajGreekFire]

you know you fucked up when God of War shows spartans in armor and you don't

[@poslednisoud]

When this movie came out I watched it over and over again to the point I can still quote most of the dialogue despite not speaking English at the time, I just remembered how the words sounded until my brain understood them. It's still burned into my memory as the coolest movie ever and I can't bring myself to dislike it no matter how stupid it is. Then again, I was 8.

[@GothPaoki]

Yeap dialogue was epic.

[@GoblinKnightLeo]

As far as historical accuracy, some of the really cool lines are genuine - the one about Spartan women, "come and take them", "fight in the shade", etc.

[@TheNoonish]

I mean, “real,” as in they were written by Herodotus. But Herodotus wasn’t there, and was to some extent propagandizing, as he was a proud Greek. He overstated the size of the Persian forces, probably at by an order of magnitude. The Persian Empire simply did not have the infrastructure to support an invasion force of over 5 million. So those direct quotes are somewhat doubtful in origin as he had full license to come up with badass things they might have said.

[@GoblinKnightLeo]

@TheNoonish there's no particular reason to doubt the specific dialogue except to note that it would have to have come from someone else's account - insofar as it matches with the reported laconic speech of Spartans (the real lines were shorter - molon labe, for example, just means "come take them"). And of course some of it was repurposed - the line about Spartan women wasn't said by Gorgon but a different woman in a different setting. It's an unfortunate fact that history tends to have a Western bias because the West placed a greater emphasis on recording historical events as they happened - and certainly more Western accounts survived. I absolutely agree that the Achemenid empire couldn't have supplied a foreign invasion of 5 million - probably couldn't afford to pull that many conscripts even from the whole empire, and even if they could the much-better-organized Romans couldn't have fielded an invasion force that size even on a close neighbor - but Herodotus is hardly alone in overestimating the sizes of armies or populations.

[@GoblinKnightLeo]

@TheNoonish isn't there a famous incident of a Spartan king responding to threats from Darius with a letter containing a single word "If"? Ie. Yes, you could do all of those things _if_ you invaded Sparta. EDIT: took me a bit to.find this reference - it wasn't a Persian king at all but Philip of Macedon, and it was the ephors who sent the letter, not the Spartan king

[@TheNoonish]

@@GoblinKnightLeo I just cast doubt on the accuracy of quoted words from this period. Herodotus is basically writing the first history, but he's building from a tradition of oral histories and performance arts, both of which place more value on being entertaining than pursuing truth. And the earliest the *Histories* could have been published was about 45 years after the battle, meaning he was already relying upon decades-old oral accounts. Such tales tend to grow in the telling. To be fair, he's at least writing about Thermopylae while it was in living memory. The classical period is absolutely full of historians attributing extremely pithy, clever remarks to historical figures. That doesn't make them less cool, it just means they're of questionable origin. One of my favorites is from Plutarch writing about Alexander. King Darius offered terms to Alexander after the Battle of Issus, and Plutarch claims Parmenion counseled him, "I would accept those terms, if I were Alexander." And Alexander supposedly said, "So would I, if I were Parmenion." Great line, completely badass, but completely invented by Plutarch.

[@llucaxu1249]

I feel thin, sort of stretched, like 300 spartans spread over too many persian goblins" Bilbonidas Baggins

[@ZombieLicorice]

Ironically, the Spartans were notoriously far more pederastic than the Athenians.

[@sparkypack]

what about the númenóreans?

[@ZombieLicorice]

@@sparkypack oh egregious pederasty from Numenor. That's actually what gave their line of kings such long life

[@Baldwin-iv445]

And that's actually a myth

[@Baldwin-iv445]

​@@sparkypackI don't remember anything pedophilic about the Numenoreans

[@No_nameOG]

11:20 the oracle of Delphi. She was known to make predictions of the future, though it was far more likely the oracles were just drugged up.

[@Pompadour_Pug]

Wolf would immediately shut Rags down when he refused to back off, whilst Fringy's learned to stretch out the mockery and have Rags clown upon himself. Keep at it Rags it's good content.

[@xeroeddie]

This is my favorite kind of "don't think about it, just enjoy it" movie.

[@Liberator130]

I strongly suggest that Shad review the "The Lie Told to Us About Our History | Ancient Greece" video because his assertions are....bizarre.

[@sirchadiusmaximusiii]

This. 👆

[@hungtotheover3385]

Say whatever you want about the movie and it’s inaccuracies but the score is amazing.

[@AnimaVox_]

It really is! One of the few films whose score I enjoy listening to in its entirety.

[@BigBroTejano]

Oh Shad… you claim to love history… and yet you propagate the myth that homosexuality and “boy love” was rampant in Ancient Greece and not viewed as strange or vile by the bulk of Greek society. In truth these practices were far less common then “popular culture” would have you believe and mostly limited to a few among the more “eccentric” elements in Greek society.

[@louiscachet7681]

Pop history maybe

[@reactiondavant-garde3391]

I would disagree with Shad on why the Spartan army was relativly small. The reasen much more simple, Sparta was a confederacy a numerous small very rural settlments. Simply, it was few full spartan citisens. Most people were helot who worked on the lands or workshops, they were not slaves, more closer to serfs, but they rarely partipitated in wars and they can't moved from the lands they are occupide.

[@tkopp10976]

After first watch i didn't much care for the looks and weird creatures. But then someone pointed out that this is the poster child for the unreliable narrator. All the images we see is what's invoked in the minds of the people listening to Faramir at the end. That's why everything looks so overstylized, you have the fat guy with the blade arms executor etc. Good cast and acting all around, gave us some good memes, i count this one as a win for Snyder.

[@MrThomasHart]

"You shall bathe in Goa'uld" "Wrong story T'ealc" "Indeed?" "Indeed"

[@oshiri2022]

moriarty's laugh extends my lifespan

[@reallycool]

thank you

[@alexhayden219]

This movie really is basically a documentary. I suggest using it as the basis for any school history papers.

[@thunderlighting2006]

I did and the teacher failed me

[@alexhayden219]

@@thunderlighting2006 *time dilation caused by epic fights or even someone simply walking is an artistic presentation choice, not something that actually happened in ancient times.

[@jeebuschristos8423]

7:13 I do find it amusing how everyone praised the visuals in this movie... and then you crack open the graphic novel and it's literally a 1:1 presentation... very little "Snyder hand" here at all...

[@EmilMazur-w2f]

Do you know the second one? No? Don't worry, it sucks

[@rebootmania7164]

“War is distasteful…..to me”-John “Jigsaw” Kramer

[@kieranholmes8086]

Ngl I really do love Leonidas’ death scene. It’s probably mostly due to the score but when it kicks in as he says “my queen, my wife, my love” it just hits hard for me idk.

[@pyguy3403]

Thanks Lil Poteto! How long since you edited this? 😂

[@realmofloredor]

*My introduction to this movie was ERB, with Leonidas spitting straight 🔥 against Chief.*

[@hand8007]

Spartans! Let’s start this! Show this petty officer who’s the hardest!

[@1701EarlGrey]

Ah, marathon of "historic" war movies begun! I remember how during one EFAP I companied about lack of historical accuracy in movies, saying that authors should stop laying about history and senpai Rags actually noticed and read my message calling me an idiot 😄... good old times! But I would cut this movie some slack, as clever narrative device actually explains a lot if not historical blunders; it's story told be survived Spartan, it's essentially Spartan propaganda! And as such movie works. In fact a lot of stories about Sparta passed to us by ancient historians are nothing more than Spartan propaganda. Even though some choices are still baffling to me; like lack of Spartan breastplate or the fact that they almost never use phalanx formation, even though that this formation let tem to hold Hot Gates for long...

[@chuckhoyle1211]

Zack Snyder only obeys one rule. The Rule of Cool.

[@rainingtacos7529]

Good for Pathfinder, but poor for movies.

[@Seomus]

So, it was asked if every Spartan had to kill a wolf, wouldn't there be no more wolf, but that's not what they killed. They had to slip out in night and kill one of the helots, their slave race, without being detected. This terrorized their slaves that at any time a spartan could appear out of the night and end them.

[@SolarDragon007]

Killing a helpless slave would've been more historically accurate, but killing a monster wolf is way more cooler and metaler 😎

[@nagger8216]

Good to know being a good, obedient slave was well-rewarded lol

[@IamaCosmonaut]

Imagine yourself in the boots of the Spartans, where Sparta and it's neighbouring Greek city states are all you know. As the Persians invade, it is the first time in your life you've met a person from a completely different culture and race. Of course with this context these people, who are also there to kill you and your family, will look like demons from the depths of hell to you. And considering that the entire film is told by Faramir to inspire the Spartan army to fight, of course he is going to play up the demonic features of Persians so the Spartans have easier time killing them. The movie isn't that difficult to understand once you figure out it's not meant to be a historical document of real events, but a pro-Spartan propaganda piece.

[@liamjm9278]

The Greeks and Persians have been interacting with each other for hundreds of years. They know they're not demons nor orcs. Greeks have even been hired as mercenaries by them.

[@kozai101]

To its credit at least this movie had enough respect to acknowledge there were other Greeks at Thermopylae not just 300 Spartans.

[@ChiefCrewin]

I remember when this movie came out, it was the peak of rhe History Channel and rhey did a fantastic series on the Battle of Thermopylae. Brtter times..

[@haydendill6288]

Rags commentary was so off point but perfect, I love it.

[@alexhayden219]

@@Amarenamann I'll miss Fringy not calling him out on it for the rest of the arc.

[@alexhayden219]

@@Amarenamann and in our hearts

[@alexhayden219]

@@Amarenamann Maybe the real treasure was the green bird we met along the way.

[@Marcus_009]

The movie clearly goes for the stylised comic aesthetic & the sometimes lofty logic that comes from that and in that regard I think it did really well but I feel because it’s Synder the whole panel is stacked against it picking it apart. Get a group of normal guys watching this who just want to be entertained and guaranteed it’s gonna please

[@deadman4110]

6:20 You know this is an old recording when they reference the Sword-like object meme lol

[@leipzigergnom]

This EFAP is surprisingly hilarious

[@reallycool]

Hardly surprising

[@leipzigergnom]

@@reallycool Yeah, I guess I should have expected this level of hilarity. They actually got me laughing out loud a couple times.

[@reallycool]

yes, 'they'

[@jegsdinogod5091]

So have literally none of you guys read the comic book or caught on to the fact the narrator is bullshitting most of this as propaganda to hype the Greeks?

[@Wlof25]

Even better, it was obvious that the story is narrated by unreliable narrator.

[@AldrickExGladius]

If Leo hadn't tried for the headshot, he could've pinned ol' Xercs to that headboard!

[@heikira438]

EFAP! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION!? "NOUGH! NOUGH! NOUGH!"

[@georgehouliaras7239]

EFAPERS! What's your profession?

[@elyrienvalkyr8167]

Being cringe

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

FLEEM! FLEEM! FLEEM!

[@chesterbonaparte6787]

This is a weird Batwoman episode...

[@alexhayden219]

The depiction of the Spartans and the military tactics aren't _completely_ baseless... but the depictions of the Persians and Xerxes is. Frank Miller had some weird ideas. It's basically kind of like a war propaganda film for something that happened 2500 years ago, depicting the enemy as goblin monsters and... well, actually not any more depraved than themselves... but their enemy is otherworldly.

[@alexhayden219]

By not completely baseless, I mean pretty inaccurate, but there's historical base from where it was derived. Example: Spartans did wear red capes, but not into battle. Edna Mode had already informed them of the impracticality of it. But, they look kewl.

[@Super_Ammo]

What's your profession? I'm a barber. You will pay for your barbarism!!!

[@reverendrico5631]

At no point is this supposed to treated as historically realistic. The movie is set using the framing device that the story is being told an army. Every time you hear narration, it’s a dude rallying an army years later. Everything Persian is depicted as alien and horrific because that is what he is describing. We are seeing “never let the facts get in the way of a good story”.

[@MrDrekki]

SWEET ! it's time boys ! the only movie of zack snyders that is digestable because he had nothing to do with it besides the slow mo. We eating good today with the efap crew.

[@IamaCosmonaut]

300 isn't supposed to be historically accurate. The whole movie is essentially a propaganda story told by Faramir to inspire Spartan men to fight against the invading Persians. It is extravagant and outlandish on purpose, just like a story to inspire young men to die for their country is bound to be. What's more inspiring to a young man than to follow the steps of a great hero who against all odds stood his ground against invading monster horde. It invokes the following response; "If 300 of us did that, imagine what all of us can do."

[@Mac-t884]

You mean it’s essentially the one imagination of Miller, an objectively bigoted and Xenophon garbage person.

[@nagger8216]

​@@Mac-t884And worst of all, a terrible writer. I don't know much about the comic itself to be fair, but if the DKR animated adaptation is anything to go off of, he completely butchered everything about Batman. Both the character himself and the universe in general. No wonder Snyder used this story as his main inspiration for Batfleck, they're both shit.

[@TheSharkIsWorking_23]

300…. 1st viewing - “it was great” 2nd viewing - “not great, but good” 3rd viewing - “not a good film”

[@arrogantprimate721]

Back in grade 11, this movie was in our local theatre and my Ancient History class was in the the appropriate time period. My friend and I showed the teacher a trailer, suggested the possibility and a few weeks later our class got a private viewing of 300 on a weekday afternoon. Good memories.

[@minigalen7599]

I can't believe they glossed over "Then we shall fight in the shade." For shame EFAP

[@Vallenwulf]

I promise that everyone giving this movie shit fucking loved it when it came out. Only now that Snyder's movies went to shit do people belittle it. Disappointing EFAP.

[@fenixsantos4117]

Dude this recording was like done 3 or so yrs ago :)

[@Vallenwulf]

​@@fenixsantos4117So... 2020. Even as a former Snyder fan his movies were trash then, too.

[@wackyswacky1374]

Zach Snyder is only semi competent at his job when he is adapting a graphic novel. When he has to write himself it becomes a disaster.

[@vitorschein8073]

My history teacher though this movie was based on the actual events, not on a comic book. He made us watch it in class, pausing all the time to comment on how amazing it was at portraing the Spartans 😂😂

[@alexhayden219]

What'd he say about the giant orc?

[@vitorschein8073]

​@@alexhayden219he basically said: yeah, that part is not really realistic, they were probably just really strong persians, not actual monsters

[@alexhayden219]

@@vitorschein8073 😂

[@coyoteone6197]

I hear Galadriel once killed a really strong Persian in under ten seconds. 😄